Perm Perm.. Perm?

[SearMeCarefully]

So I want my hair to have a tighter curl (not corkscrew/crimped often seen in the 80s but more 3a/Botticelli). I've thought about getting one on and off for several years but am just now seriously considering it.
Similar to this curl, maybe a bit tighter (3a/3b): http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_zN8g4K6kYbw/SbIIhekSogI/AAAAAAAAAaM/fVET5WEHERo/s400/Erin1.jpg

Yes I know it will be damaging. I've given up on trying to get to classic for right now.
My hair seems to have lost some curl in the past couple of years, this makes me really sad as I never was satisfied with the amount of curl I had anyway!
I've tried natural methods of curling hair, it just takes so long for it to try ~ 24ish hours when it's all rolled/scrunched up on my head blah

So I guess I'm wondering if anyone has had a perm fairly recently? What to expect? Both short and longer term, upkeep etc.

When I do go to a salon I usually go to a Deva concepts certified stylist (lorraine massey style of cutting/color etc) who does perms and mentioned it to me before. I asked her at that time about getting a perm but she said as I was trying to grow out my hair to ~classic it would be best not to. Now I'm perfectly fine with being TB-waist lengths so am more seriously considering this..

[FluffSpider]

I was asking the same perm question a while ago- and pretty much got my mind off of it. I don't know if you could maintain TBL healthily with a perm... it does, after all, restructure the hair. It's drying, the roots are horrid to grow out, and the first perm is generally the best, then it just spirals down to worse. After reading 3 or so pages of replies, I decided I would rather stick to the limp fineness and start damp bunning with setting lotions.

[skyblue]

You could try it but I got to say that it is not so fun when your ends start to really dry out and your constantly trimming, I did it once in my twenties and I did love it! But it took years for my hair to get back to normal, maybe if you do a lot of SMTs maybe weekly....religiously, you might get lucky and won't end up that much damage....I would really give it a lot of thought first, do the pro and con thing and see which wins out

[ibleedlipstick]

I had a perm, and it was pretty terrible to grow out. I liked it right after it was done, but the grow-out was terrible, and we could never get it to look as good as it did the first time around. I babied my hair, and I don't feel like I had a great deal of damage, but it just never looked as good as I wanted it to.

[pepperminttea]

I got one in my teens, long since grown out and cut off. My hair was dyed at the same time though, so YMMV. My hair literally became a completely different type - I had no idea how to care for it. In retrospect, regular consecutive protein and moisture treatments would've helped a lot, and a trim directly after the perm itself. At the time, it was incredibly dry, I just couldn't condition it enough. It tangled worse than ever. Every hair seemed to end in a split. It's not something I'd recommend, but if you've got your heart set on it, have all your best hair babying techniques at the ready.

[jesis]

I was looking at your album and I saw a couple of pictures where you have a really tight curl pattern. You look almost 3b to me in those pictures. My hair is less curly naturally than I wear it, I just put oil and gel in my hair right out of the shower and scrunch the water out, then I leave it alone for the rest of the day except maybe scrunching a time or two more. That helps me get my 3a curls. :)

[jojo]

I don't normally like perms as such but I think it would look great on you. You obviously know how to care for your hair, so why not. Just remember to put twice as much moisture back as the perm will take out.

[lapushka]

So I guess I'm wondering if anyone has had a perm fairly recently? What to expect? Both short and longer term, upkeep etc.

I got mine at shoulder length (more than 2 years ago), and it was difficult to set - the process took a long time (about 3 hours). Things were rushed and hurried along, so otherwise it probably would have taken longer. I lost hair at the back of my head because hair was set and pulled too tightly (rush of it all). The stylist also kept complaining about the length. In her view, it had to be shorter, but then she was used to doing this mainly on older ladies. I asked about really long hair. A perm won't look as good, she said, if it's even possible to set right at such a long length, some issue of the more hair you have to roll onto a roller, the looser the curl at the root will be and then spiral perms will be better. I once got a spiral perm at about BSL (about 23 years ago) and they did it that way because my hair was so long, so... same thing. There's probably truth in that.

As far as upkeep goes, the first perm I got wasn't too tangly, quite okay, good to maintain with a simple coney conditioner and not that hard to comb out. Then I got a second one 4 months later (way too soon). Oh boy... that kind of ruined things; things got very tangly. Now I need enormous amounts of strong coney conditioner. Garnier triple nutrition works wonders also. So I definitely recommend that.

I guess with your hair it's not going to be such a big deal, perming, I mean, you will hardly notice it growing out, so you kind of have to wonder if it's worth the extra effort when all you're going to get extra is more knots and tangles... Your hair is kind of 3a and you have beautiful curls from what I can see.

[Slinks]

I was reading a perm thread a while back too .. if I remember correctly she had to have her tailbone or so length cut back and layered .. she liked it, I liked it too .. but all I could really think of was the length that got cut off .. lol .. but that's because I'm still growing .. if you're at the length you wanted to be at and are bored and are ready to cut some, that pic you provided is nice but you will also have to rembember that perms look differant in pics, they're primped and preened and photoshopped to the max ..

in the end if it's what you want go for it, with my straight hair I would love to but I know it's a dream that wouldn't happen .. have all your babying hair products at the ready and best of luck to you .. don't forget to show us :-)

[Babyfine]

I used to perm my hair every 8-12 months in the 80's and 90's.
I felt that it gave me much needed body and volume, and I loved the bouncy curl.
However, I mainly kept my hair at shoulder-length so most of the damage was getting cut off.
I still get the urge to perm-with my fine/flat wimpy waves, especially in the winter or a drier climate where my hair flattens out.
However, I color now,(demi-perm) so there's no way I could have healthy hair even if I kept it shorter, with a perm, too.
One thing that keeps me from perming is noticing how much stronger and shinier my fine/fragile hair is these days, and how much longer I've been able to grow it without splits.
When I permed, I had good perms and bad perms, and sometimes even found broken hairs on my pillow!Plus the splits. Of course, I didn't have LHC knowledge, either.
These days I just try to work with what I have, and if I want volume I'll do braid or bun waves.
Or keeping my hair moisturized and scrunching/plopping. Not the curl I'd like-but I do like my hair's shine and health. compared to how it used to be.

[|Xei]

Have you considered getting a small amount of layers put into your hair? I'm not an expert on curly hair, but I have noticed in the past with several different curly-haired people that layers really help to bring out their curls, and define them.

A good friend of mine used to have really limp and stretched out curls. I always thought her hair was only wavy until she got layers put into her hair, and her hair was probably, judging from photos, close to or around 3a.

Apparently, the same thing happened to a teacher of mine as well. After getting layers put in, her hair just sprung up and it became really easy to style. Her hair was at waist length and looks a lot like the picture you posted, so even though you're aiming for longer lengths, I don't think it's totally undoable.

[Slinks]

Have you considered getting a small amount of layers put into your hair? I'm not an expert on curly hair, but I have noticed in the past with several different curly-haired people that layers really help to bring out their curls, and define them.

A good friend of mine used to have really limp and stretched out curls. I always thought her hair was only wavy until she got layers put into her hair, and her hair was probably, judging from photos, close to or around 3a.

Apparently, the same thing happened to a teacher of mine as well. After getting layers put in, her hair just sprung up and it became really easy to style. Her hair was at waist length and looks a lot like the picture you posted, so even though you're aiming for longer lengths, I don't think it's totally undoable.
I think the same thing after seeing her pics in the album .. all the OP needs is a good hair salon ..

[RitaPG]

I had a friend in high school who did that, she used to have waist length hair, but after a year and a half and two perms, her hair broke all the way up to shoulder length. And the curls barely lasted a month.

I know there are hair stylists on LHC that might be able to help you with that, hopefully they'll see this ang give a better insight. I'm sure there are better alternatives to a perm.

[Celebrian]

I got a 'soft, body perm' about two months ago on my thick but fine BSL hair (both hennaed and bottle dyed - but very well conditioned and regularly trimmed.) It didn't take very well, and I went away to do deep conditioning treatments for a month and then went back to try again (no extra cost.) He used a perm for color treated hair by L'Oreal - that's all I know - and set it on large curlers/wands.

This time it worked much better. There's a distinct 'S' shape to the lengths when my hair is wet, and I like the thickening effect (and the slight root lift) regardless of whether I dry it naturally or pull it out.

I had one problem with the hair just in front of the ears - which frazzled - and needs LOADS of treatment even now, but that said, I am still glad I had it done! But then I trim my hair regularly to keep it fresh and crisp (been BSL for years now!)

Why? Because I have body and fullness, and waves if I want them.

I've discovered that Herbal Essences 'It's a Curl thing' S & C ('Twisted something-or-other' in the US) hydrates my hair well, if that helps.

Oh, I will probably just have a 'root' perm in a few months time (literally roots only) and leave the rest for another 6 months or so.

I will say that I have had some problems with dryness, and these have been overcome by frequent deep conditioning. Also, I tend to henna a few times a year.

I must add that if I leave my hair its lovely, floppy silky self - I start to look like a spaniel (with long, droopy ears) a bit like this:

http://tiny.cc/ullcp

[Scarlet_Heart]

If your hair is really long, they will layer it, otherwise, your curls won't look tight just because of the weight. That's what they did with me years back. I wouldn't do it again. My hair looked like a frizz-bang explosion a few months after.

I would not do it if I were you, but I totally understand how it is when you get a bee in your bonnet about trying a new hair thing.

ETA: I just looked at your pics and while I understand you wanting to do it, I feel compelled to beg you not to. Your hair is gorgeous the way it is. It's truly enviable.

[terpentyna]

You will decide yourself in the end, I have no input other than what was already said.

I wanted to ask, however, if you have tried to figure out why your hair lost its curl? is it length/ weight, or maybe a product you use?

[caiti42]

I suggest trying layers if you don't already have them. I have pretty straight hair with a slight wave but layers in my hair really play up the wave and add volume.

Maybe also go to a haircare place and get them to suggest a good curl defining mouse or sirum (sp?). There are some great ones on the market and I can even get spiral curls with some. I'm talking salon quality products too not grocery store. Might be $10 more but still untimely cheaper than a perm!

[spidermom]

I find that a perm generally looks good for 4-8 months, then the damage starts to show and the curl gets wonky because of the 2-4 inches of grow-out. It's downhill from there.

But you might get as much as a year of terrific, and the amount of damage varies from person to person. Your hair may not hate it as much as my hair did.

[Athena's Owl]

something to consider - you know how to care for curly hair already, so you won't have as much of a "care shock" as someone with straight hair might have.

the other thing to consider - perms are every bit as damaging as a relaxer. cumulatively moreso, because when you touch up a relaxer you can get a root treatment done, but for a perm you have to re-perm all your hair.

I'm experiencing that "not as curly as it used to be" thing. i'm missing my tight 3b/3c curls. and because it's so dry here I can't get away with using glycerine to activate the curl. my boots curl creme helps somewhat, but I think if I want that level of curl back I'd have to cut it.

[SearMeCarefully]

Thank you for all the replies and advice everyone!
I know my pictures show my curls but they are older pictures when my hair tended to curl more (and with plenty of coaxing lol) but again my hair seems to have lost some of it's curl. I would say it's still "wurly" but tends to lean towards the wavy than the curly now.

Oh as for the layers I have had layers before (if you see in my album some of them are when I did). I got them for that very purpose of helping my hair to curl more and really loved it then. However the hairdresser cut a V line so I spent a lot of time growing it back out to a U (as the sides were cut to BSL when I was trying to grow to classic haha ahhh!).

Anyway I spent a few years growing it back out/evening it out and most of my layers grew out. So about a year ago I was feeling frumpy as my hair had been less curly and decided to get layers again (but make sure stylist knew wanted U line this time!) and it didn't seem to help much..

Terpentyna - you know thinking back/time line wise and with what I know from being on here I actually think it may be about when I started birth control and perhaps my hormones have caused this change? My hair care routine hasn't changed much since I used to visit here all the time. I still use the same/similar products.. And my length has stayed about the same as well. I tried growing to classic and farthest I ever got was around TB but my ends looked so bad that after awhile and I trimmed to hip and kinda float around hip/tb now

I don't take hair pictures anymore or come on here like I used to because I've just felt really.. down about my hair lately.

Yea cheese :cheese: