Moisture and very fine hair

[Misti]

Hey, all! I have been searching for several days and haven't managed to find anything specific to my question.

My hair is super, super fine (and until recently very thin as well.) It is also very grey, at this point, which I love, which is making it wiry and rough, which I don't. I used to have hair so soft and shiny that it felt cold to the touch, like glass. I miss that. I have tried a couple of treatments with cassia and it feels much nicer, but it still isn't smooth and shiny.

Do you think moisture may be what it needs? If so, what kind of moisture treatment do those of you with very fine hair have success with? (I tried coconut oil, and it letf my hair very coated, but no more moisturized. I think it may work better for those with thicker "fatter" hair?) I prefer treatments I can make for myself, since I am wary of commercial chemical preparations.

Does anyone have any ideas or is this new texture something I'm just going to have to earn to love?

Thanks!

[CarpeDM]

Hi Misti,
I have both straight fine and thick curly (grey type) hair as well. I went from having perfectly fine straight hair to a combination of types with age. Since about 30% (ever increasing with each day) is about the pili torti type it can be tricky to handle that type of hair AND the finer hair at the same time. What works for one type doesn't always work for the other. If I take care of the thicker coarser hair with a conditioner it tends to weigh down the finer hair and if I just take care of the fine hair my thicker coarser hair can act up even more. If you are looking for moisture I would recommend trying Aubrey Organics GPB conditioner, it is a milk protein based conditioner that both my types of hair seem to like a lot. It seems to plump up the fine hair and soften the wirey hairs. I have tried to use lots of other at home options like oils and so on, but that seems to be the only thing that works for me, hope that helps!!!

[Annalouise]

Hi Misti:)
I agree about not using oils. I have fine hair too and that doesn't seem to work. I'm also sensitive to chemicals and I'm wracking my brain trying to think of ways to wash and condition my hair with natural ingredients.

I haven't worked out a haircare routine yet but maybe we could list ingredients that we could use to experiment with, such as aloe vera, coconut milk, yogurt, herbal teas such as hibiscus which is not drying, mayonaise, eggs, vinegar...etc.

Trying to find a balance that doesn't dry out the hair is really important. I've found most herbs dried out my hair and of course oil is much to heavy for fine hair and hard to remove when you don't use shampoos.

I would love to hear any suggestions as well.:)

I am trying not to use soap, shampoo or conditioner or drying herbs or oils in my routine.

Also, I think that cassia might be drying as well. And, one more thing, baking soda is going to be drying for your hair as well and it will not make your hair silky. Do you think the baking soda might be contributing to the new texture?

[MeganE]

Did you use coconut oil on dry hair? You might get much better results if you apply it to your hair after it's had a chance to soak in some water first. Oils can seal in moisture, but as I understand it, they don't add it on their own.

And honey is a humectant, meaning it attracts water, so I've been using that in my hair as well, with nice results. I was expecting it to be sticky, but once it's mixed with the water in your hair, it's really not. I use a small amount as a leave-in after every wash.

I tried an oil over honey over water treatment, overnight, the theory being that I would add moisture (water), add more moisture (honey), seal it all in (oil), and give it a chance to penetrate (overnight). I think I need a better shampoo though, I suspect the ones I'm using up are stripping the moisture right out again.

I also use cholesterol treatments in my hair, as they are cheap and very effective, but I'm not sure if that would count as something you'd prefer to avoid, or not.

[Annalouise]

I haven't tried it but I'm also thinking of molasses for darker hair.
And another thing to consider is doing a final rinse with distilled water. This will remove hard water deposits and should make your hair feel more silky and soft.:)

[Alvrodul]

I also have fine hair. I have tried COwashing sith limited success, but my hair didn't want to entirely give up on shampoo. CWC worked better, but my hair was somewhat picky about the conditioner I used.
These days, I use Chagrin Valley bars, and my hair definitely enjoys that.
I regularly do SMTs, and I always oil my hair. I get buildup from time to time, and that is one thing that is guaranteed to get my hair to look dull and get tangly.
I also henna, but I don't think that would be an option for you! ;)

[Misti]

Hi Misti,
If you are looking for moisture I would recommend trying Aubrey Organics GPB conditioner, it is a milk protein based conditioner that both my types of hair seem to like a lot. It seems to plump up the fine hair and soften the wirey hairs. I have tried to use lots of other at home options like oils and so on, but that seems to be the only thing that works for me, hope that helps!!!

Thanks, CarpeDM. I recently bought an Aubrey Organics (don't remember which one) to use in place of the VO5 I had used for the most recent clarifying. I haven't used it yet, but I'll look for the GPB conditioner, too, if that's not the one I've got. (I use conditioner mainly to clarify, but I may have to change my mind about that.



Also, I think that cassia might be drying as well. And, one more thing, baking soda is going to be drying for your hair as well and it will not make your hair silky. Do you think the baking soda might be contributing to the new texture?

Yikes! Yep, both Cassia and baking soda probably are drying, but my scalp isn't happy if I don't use bs at least a few times a week...I think I'd rather replace the moisture than do without the yummy clean feeling. :p Maybe I need to try some of the methosa I read about in antoher thread for keeping the ends out of the water most of the time. ;)

I will be trying some of the things you sugegsted as starting places and will report when I find anythign that's really effective.

Thank you!


Did you use coconut oil on dry hair? You might get much better results if you apply it to your hair after it's had a chance to soak in some water first. Oils can seal in moisture, but as I understand it, they don't add it on their own.

And honey is a humectant, meaning it attracts water, so I've been using that in my hair as well, with nice results. I was expecting it to be sticky, but once it's mixed with the water in your hair, it's really not. I use a small amount as a leave-in after every wash.

I tried an oil over honey over water treatment, overnight, the theory being that I would add moisture (water), add more moisture (honey), seal it all in (oil), and give it a chance to penetrate (overnight). I think I need a better shampoo though, I suspect the ones I'm using up are stripping the moisture right out again.

I also use cholesterol treatments in my hair, as they are cheap and very effective, but I'm not sure if that would count as something you'd prefer to avoid, or not.

Hi, Megan,

Nope, I used the coconut oil after I washed. But I have such fine hair that there may not be enough substance to handle even the smallest amount of coconut. On the other hand I almost *always* wear my hair up, and I found that the coconut was supremely protective over the frigid winters, so I'll probably use it next winter, too. I got to spring with nary a split to be seen and that is amazing! ;)

I plan to try the honey method you sugegsted - -that sounds like it makes a lot of sense. I used to use cholesterol treatments with great success, but I think if I brought such a thing into the house, my honey would have a heart attack. :o He very concerned about the stuff in off the shelf cosmetics.


I haven't tried it but I'm also thinking of molasses for darker hair.
And another thing to consider is doing a final rinse with distilled water. This will remove hard water deposits and should make your hair feel more silky and soft.:)

Good thought, Annalouise. Thanks! I'll try molasses. We have a filter on the shower...do you suppsoe distilled water would still be a good idea?


I also have fine hair. I have tried COwashing sith limited success, but my hair didn't want to entirely give up on shampoo. CWC worked better, but my hair was somewhat picky about the conditioner I used.
These days, I use Chagrin Valley bars, and my hair definitely enjoys that.
I regularly do SMTs, and I always oil my hair. I get buildup from time to time, and that is one thing that is guaranteed to get my hair to look dull and get tangly.
I also henna, but I don't think that would be an option for you! ;)

Not henna, no, Alvrodul, but I amlooking at Zizyphus.

[Misti]

Thanks, everyone! I have some cool ideas to try now! :D

[Anje]

I used to use cholesterol treatments with great success, but I think if I brought such a thing into the house, my honey would have a heart attack. :o
Just don't let him eat it. :D

[Annalouise]

Misti, I am going to try bs on my scalp like you suggested to me, but I'm going to hold my length out of it because it will dry out the length. I also like to have a clean scalp.

A filter on the shower doesn't remove the metals, I believe, and the water will still be hard. I have read that distilled water makes the hair silky soft if used as a final rinse. I should try it and report back to you.:)
http://www.suite101.com/content/benefits-of-using-distilled-water-on-hair-a261247

This article has a natural shampoo recipe:
http://www.ehow.com/facts_7579845_vinegar-distilled-water-shampoo.html

[Misti]

Just don't let him eat it. :D

<laugh> That's funny. :D


A filter on the shower doesn't remove the metals, I believe, and the water will still be hard. I have read that distilled water makes the hair silky soft if used as a final rinse. I should try it and report back to you.:)
http://www.suite101.com/content/benefits-of-using-distilled-water-on-hair-a261247


Thank you for that, Annalouise! I thought that the filter was helping (I know it's helping with chlorine! Yuck!) I'll get some distilled water on payday and give it a try!

[Jimothea]

I don't know how much help this will be to you, but if you wanted an alternative to BS (neither my fine hair nor my picky scalp can hack it!), brown sugar is a wonder for clarifying. I read somewhere on here that people add conditioner to it to make it pliable, but I always just dropped a few drops of water into the bowl (of brown sugar) and rolled it onto my scalp, and scrubscrubscrubbed. Takes a while but everything comes out squeeeeeaky clean. Plus, since [liquified] sugars are humectants, in theory this should help with moisture????--->If you have some lying around maybe you could switch for a few wash days and see iif you notice a difference? Good luck!

[Annalouise]

I don't know how much help this will be to you, but if you wanted an alternative to BS (neither my fine hair nor my picky scalp can hack it!), brown sugar is a wonder for clarifying. ................!

Hey, that's a great idea! I'll try that. I'll let you guys know how it turns out. I guess white sugar would work too.

[Misti]

I don't know how much help this will be to you, but if you wanted an alternative to BS (neither my fine hair nor my picky scalp can hack it!), brown sugar is a wonder for clarifying. I read somewhere on here that people add conditioner to it to make it pliable, but I always just dropped a few drops of water into the bowl (of brown sugar) and rolled it onto my scalp, and scrubscrubscrubbed. Takes a while but everything comes out squeeeeeaky clean. Plus, since [liquified] sugars are humectants, in theory this should help with moisture????--->If you have some lying around maybe you could switch for a few wash days and see iif you notice a difference? Good luck!

That's a good idea, Jimothea, thanks!

[Annalouise]

I tried the brown sugar last night. Although it felt nice on my scalp it didn't remove my scalp oils.

[Misti]

Thanks, everyone! I ended up slathering my hair in egg yolk, honey, and coconut milk for about fours hours, based on advice here and elsewhere. I didn't manage to get it all out with two sudsings with clarifying conditioner, but the ends of my hair are more beautiful than they have been in many years! I LOVE it again!

But I also discovered that I will have retype my hair. It is very wavy now...! woohoo!

Again, thanks, everyone! Coconut milk is a definite keeper. I'll try that alone in a week or so.

[cubedcoley]

Chelating shampoo? I have not tried it yet. But there is an article about different types of build up. Sounds like you may have already solved the problem though. :shrug:

[Misti]

Chelating shampoo? I have not tried it yet. But there is an article about different types of build up. Sounds like you may have already solved the problem though. :shrug:

That's worth a thought -- and I plan to buy some distilled water, as well, just in case I do have mineral buildup. Always a possibility. I know chlorine wreaked havoc on my hair from which it has yet to completely recover.

I'll upload before and after photos in my album.

[Annalouise]

Thanks, everyone! I ended up slathering my hair in egg yolk, honey, and coconut milk for about fours days, based on advice here and elsewhere. I didn't manage to get it all out with two sudsings with clarifying conditioner, but the ends of my hair are more beautiful than they have been in many years! I LOVE it again!

But I also discovered that I will have retype my hair. It is very wavy now...! woohoo!

Again, thanks, everyone! Coconut milk is a definite keeper. I'll try that alone in a week or so.

That is great! I'm glad to hear you found something that worked.
I should try it. I need to condition my hair. Maybe I'll try coconut milk, molasses, aloe vera and... jojoba oil?

Did you leave that concoction on for four days?

[Misti]

That is great! I'm glad to hear you found something that worked.
I should try it. I need to condition my hair. Maybe I'll try coconut milk, molasses, aloe vera and... jojoba oil?

Did you leave that concoction on for four days?

Oops. No, I misspoke. I meant four hours. (It did however feel like four days ... I kept smelling custard and got really hungry!)

[Alvrodul]

Good to hear you have found something to make your hair happy again!:)

[Annalouise]

Oops. No, I misspoke. I meant four hours. (It did however feel like four days ... I kept smelling custard and got really hungry!)

Haha. I was thinking that was an awfully long time.:D
I was inspired by your experiment and I conditioned my hair today with coconut milk, aloe vera gel, honey and a tiny bit of avacado oil.
I rinsed it out with water. That didn't rinse it out. Next time I will do it before I wash my hair with soap. My hair feels very soft.

[Misti]

Good to hear you have found something to make your hair happy again!:)


Haha. I was thinking that was an awfully long time.:D
I was inspired by your experiment and I conditioned my hair today with coconut milk, aloe vera gel, honey and a tiny bit of avacado oil.
I rinsed it out with water. That didn't rinse it out. Next time I will do it before I wash my hair with soap. My hair feels very soft.

Thank you, Alvrodul. I am relieved and happy. :)

Cool, Annalouise! Actually I had the same thing happen. I tried to remove the goo with clarifying conditioner yesterday and my hair was really coated, so today, I used conditioner with a drop of (really awful) shampoo and some baking soda. It feels wonderful! But I am going to get a bottle of good, moisturizing conditioner and some safe shampoo for use after I use moisture treatments and cassia.

[jojo]

My hair is fine and whenever I want moisture and shine; tigi moisture maniac never fails to deliver. Its my all time favorite conditioner plus its coneless.

[Misti]

My hair is fine and whenever I want moisture and shine; tigi moisture maniac never fails to deliver. Its my all time favorite conditioner plus its coneless.

Thanks, Jojo!

[Firefox7275]

You might be able to remove that concoction with a CO-wash, given that it removes oils better than shampoo.

[Misti]

You might be able to remove that concoction with a CO-wash, given that it removes oils better than shampoo.

That's what I tried the first day -- no luck.

[Annalouise]

I washed my hair with my olive oil castile soap today and where I put it directly on my hair it took the coconut milk out. But I didn't put enough soap on the length and it is still stringy.
I'll just use more soap next time and make sure I soap up the length.