Question for those who have reached terminal

[louisemg82]

So I've decided to change my goal.
I was originally going to grow back to waist as I've had previously but being here changed my mind and I now want to go for longer. Classic length on me is 44 inches.
I found a link to a terminal length calculator in an article on this site.
Here it is:
http://www.allvidzhaze.com/phptest/hairgrowth.html

My hair is fairly slow growing at 0.40 inches a month on average. Given my rate of shedding, according to this calculator, my terminal should be about 41 inches, so I will not even reach classic :sad I was kind of hoping to go for classic at some point.

I thought everyone could reach classic? I thought it was only longer lengths that required 'special genes' and minor miracles? For those who have reached terminal, please could you use tell me if that calculator is right for you? Was I right originally in thinking that I could go for classic? Is there anything I can do to decrease my shed rate and go for classic?
Please can someone shed any light on this? I'm quite sad now.

[Yasmine91]

I dunno if I did it right but mine said 235.29inches...ok that's not right XD

As for you, yes certain legnths can only be reached if it is in your genes but I guess the only way to find out is to see how far your hair grows. Don't be discouraged ok? just keep going and grow with us :) good luck sweety xx

[ashke50]

Given that it gets you to estimate the number or hairs on your head as well as the number you lose a day, I don't know how accurate it is going to be! I would say go for it, and see what happens.

[Krentje]

This calculator relies heavily on the hairs you shed each day.
For example: I estimated 60 hairs shedding per day, which calculates my terminal length at 27.8. Yet, if i estimate 50 hairs shedding per day, it tells me I will reach terminal length at 40" ! Try the calculator again and put in '20' for the number of hairs you shed each day and see what happens!

I think nobody can possibly know the average number of hairs shed each day, unless you live in a lab year around... I once counted the hairs in what i thought to be a huge hair clog... turned out to be only 20 hairs. And even IF you shed around 60 hairs a day (i thought that to be a good estimation for myself..), maybe you have more than the 100.000 of hairs on your head. Nobody ever counted that, i think.

End of rant ;), sorry. Just wanted to cheer you up on your journey!

[scorpio_rising]

Yeah, I'm not seeing the correlation between number of shed hairs and terminal length. They're unrelated. You could have one sole hair on your head and it could be ten feet long.

When I put my guesses in, it estimated my terminal length at something like 27", and my hair is probably longer than that now, and has been WAY, WAY longer than that in the past. I wouldn't pay that silly calculator any mind at all. :)

[torrilin]

That method doesn't make sense. You'd need to get someone to help you survey your scalp in a few areas so you can come up with a hair density measure, then figure the area of your scalp and then work out an approximate hair count. AND you'd need to do a shed strands survey over the course of a year to work out what is actually your average.

That's a giant pain in the butt, so odds are you wouldn't do it properly. And there's no way you'd repeat the scalp survey to make sure your density hasn't changed.

The method where you use a bunch of hair ties to work out your ponytail thickness and how it changes over your length is better. It is feasible to do by yourself, and it's repeatable. That way if a change in your life means your hair's circumference is thickening up, or the thickness changes over your length, you can account for it. The projections from this method will pretty much always predict a terminal that is shorter than your theoretical max but... you can redo it as you grow and get updated projections.

[louisemg82]

Thanks for the support ladies. I know I shouldn't go off just that calculator but because it was from an article on here, I kind of freaked out thinking it must be true! Is it? I just don't know because the longest my hair's ever been is waist.
It'd be lovely to here from those at classic and beyond to see if it works right for them or if it's a big fat liar...

[freckles]

Okay, a couple of things to cheer you up:
1. Because of the way terminal length is estimated in this calculator, very small differences in the things you measure/estimate can make dramatic changes.
For example -- if I grow half an inch a month, and have 80000 hairs on my head, I might grow 67.8 inches if I lose 20 hairs a day, or 60.61 inches if I lose 22 hairs a day. A difference of half a foot plus some because of a difference of two shed hairs. If I have 80000 hairs on my head, and lose 20 a day, I might grow to 67.8 inches if I grow half an inch a month, or 81.36 inches -- that's over a foot more! -- if I actually grow a barely-noticeable difference of 0.6inches a month. If I know for sure that I grow 0.5inches a month, and I count my shed hairs every day and know I lose 20 on average, I might have a terminal length of 67.8 if I have 80000 hairs on my head, or 84.75 if I have 100000 hairs. Both of these are within the normal range, and I am for sure not going to count all the hairs on my head!
This isn't a criticism of this calulator. I think it's a super interesting calulator. But ALL terminal length formulas, by their nature, are open to this kind of error because you need to know things about your hair that people just don't know, and can't know outside of a very specialised lab setting. So -- do not take anything that a terminal length calculator says to heart. They are fun toys, not the oracle ;)
2. Assuming (big assumption!) it is correct, and you can grow 41 inches of hair, that will be 41 inches root-to-tip, NOT the over-the-head way we measure on LHC. That means if you are comparing the two measurements, this terminal length will fall lower on your body than the LHC version of 41 inches -- at least, the longest hairs will. To see where this would fall on your body, measure from the bottom of your neck-hairline (or whatever it's called).
3. Some people have very long and short terminal lengths, by genetics. No, not 'everybody' can reach classic length. But completely anecdotally, it has seemed to me that many people can achieve classic length. If you don't have either female-pattern or male-pattern baldness, and don't abuse your hair, your odds of having a long terminal length seem better -- obviously, the first thing you can't control, the last thing you can.

Some things that might make you feel better or worse depending on your point of view:
1. You won't know terminal length until you get there. Worrying won't change that. So try not to.
2. There are things you can try to decrease your shed rate, or increase your growth, and therefore increase your terminal length. MAYBE. Most things work for some people, and not others. Some things work but are unpleasant or have bad side effects. Almost everything only has anecdotal evidence, and you might not even know if it's worth it. If you're really interested, you can search for the monistat threads (some people have reported that this improves growth. Some people have reported nasty side effects. Personally, it's not for me, and I don't know much about it). There is some research that caffeine shampoos increase the anagen phase, and therefore they're used to improve male pattern baldness -- but even anecdotal evidence that they improve terminal length would take a while to collect, and there isn't much about it on this site. Some vitamins might help you grow your hair faster. If you choose to go that route, PLEASE read Igor's post about megadosing (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=1433422&postcount=105) first. Some people have noticed decreased shedding on conditioner-only washing, but some people have noticed INCREASED shedding instead. So, make of that what you will. All this is just one of those things where you might not know what will help you. Even if you religiously do one of these things for years and grow past classic, you won't know if it helped, or if you would have been able to get there anyway. I would recommend a very careful regimen of eating well, exercising, and patience! :D

I'm not at terminal, so I can't answer your original question. But I hope this helped some :)

ETA: while I was typing, some people made some of my points first, darnit ;)

[freckles]

Yeah, I'm not seeing the correlation between number of shed hairs and terminal length. They're unrelated. You could have one sole hair on your head and it could be ten feet long.

When I put my guesses in, it estimated my terminal length at something like 27", and my hair is probably longer than that now, and has been WAY, WAY longer than that in the past. I wouldn't pay that silly calculator any mind at all. :)

The number of shed hairs and terminal length are not actually unrelated. The calculator is flawed because measuring error makes it pretty much impossible to enter the numbers correctly, but assuming the maths is fine behind-the-scenes, its method is actually fine. In this case, number of shed hairs a day is a way to estimate the anagen (actively growing) phase of each hair follicle. The time each follicle spends in average in the anagen phase can be expressed as a function with parameters of (number of hairs on head, hairs shed per day). Once you have worked out the length of the anagen phase, you can multiply it by average growth to get the terminal length (again, on average) of each single hair. Yes, I suppose it's mathematically possible to have one hair with a super-long anagen phase (as an outlier) compared to all the other hairs on your head, and this would screw up the maths. That doesn't make the two unrelated, though! :)

Oh, but speakign of you one-super-long-hair theory, people do have MANY hairs on their head with shorter terminal lengths (sideburns, around the hairline, etc). I imagine that would make a dent in the maths somewhere.

[Valdeon]

Oh, don't worry! One cannot rely on such rough calculation. Par example, according to this site my terminal is... 23,6"/

Buuuuuut I am already at 26" :D

It seems this calculator didn't like my shedding rate ( I put 80)

[Yozhik]

Yeah, I also don't like this calculator -- I estimated about 60 shed hairs per day, and it calculated my terminal length at under what I currently have!

I would also suggest you look in the articles section to see Igor's article on how to calculate terminal length. :)

[louisemg82]

Good to hear it's working out terminal length at less than people have already. Just to add though, the link for the calculator came from Igor's terminal length article.

[Mesmerise]

So I've decided to change my goal.
I was originally going to grow back to waist as I've had previously but being here changed my mind and I now want to go for longer. Classic length on me is 44 inches.
I found a link to a terminal length calculator in an article on this site.
Here it is:
http://www.allvidzhaze.com/phptest/hairgrowth.html

My hair is fairly slow growing at 0.40 inches a month on average. Given my rate of shedding, according to this calculator, my terminal should be about 41 inches, so I will not even reach classic :sad I was kind of hoping to go for classic at some point.

I thought everyone could reach classic? I thought it was only longer lengths that required 'special genes' and minor miracles? For those who have reached terminal, please could you use tell me if that calculator is right for you? Was I right originally in thinking that I could go for classic? Is there anything I can do to decrease my shed rate and go for classic?
Please can someone shed any light on this? I'm quite sad now.

Well...LOL at that calculator! I said my hair grows 0.5" per month (average), that I lose 50 hairs a day (which is surely average) and that I have 100,000 hairs (as a brunette) and it told me terminal was 27.3"!! I then changed it to say I lose 100 hairs a day (which is totally normal) and it told me terminal was 10.1"!!

So... umm I have no faith in that calculator AT ALL! Yes, I'm scared my terminal isn't as long as I want, but I am CERTAIN that it's longer than 27"!

[elbow chic]

I have no idea how many hairs I have, or how many of them shed per day. And I'm not about to start counting.

Also: AFAIK, LHC and other hair boards are the only places that measure from the front of the head, instead of say, actual individual strands. So the hair-board measurements are actually somewhat "inflated" for the sake of easy measuring/comparison purposes.

I would SERIOUSLY doubt that any of my actual strands check in at 25 inches, but that's my LHC measurement.

[Mesmerise]

I have no idea how many hairs I have, or how many of them shed per day. And I'm not about to start counting.

Also: AFAIK, LHC and other hair boards are the only places that measure from the front of the head, instead of say, actual individual strands. So the hair-board measurements are actually somewhat "inflated" for the sake of easy measuring/comparison purposes.

I would SERIOUSLY doubt that any of my actual strands check in at 25 inches, but that's my LHC measurement.

Yeah, when I first came to LHC and measured my hair, the longest strand was at about 22" which seemed sooo short compared to others who had sig pics that looked a similar length to mine lol. I had to read up on how to measure properly and ended up with 4" more!

[trolleypup]

I'll chime in as one who has been at terminal for years. 1/2" per month, 42" individual hair, 53" LHC length.

The calculator doesn't provide useful results. The hair on your head isn't uniform. I know I have significant amounts of hair that has a much shorter cycle (from mere months all the way up to the 7 years of the longest hairs)...so one of the 3" hairs will shed 14 times while the longest ones only shed once. Back when I was actually counting hairs, I counted about 30 hairs at least 30" long each day...and lots of shorter ones.

The banded ponytail method can provide better results although it isn't totally accurate either and you have to have longish hair with no layers to measure from.

Honestly, if you want to go for terminal, just do it! That is the only way you will get the real answer.

It appears that my longest cycle hairs max out at almost exactly 42"(7 years)...I've only noticed a single shed hair over 42"...43"! I don't get the 3 hair wispies some do.

[louisemg82]

Thank you all. Trolleypup, your hair is amazing and if it's 42 inches, I guess I could 'grow for it' too. I don't think I'm going to look at that calculator again, it's just upsetting!

[spidermom]

Ignore the calculator. When I did it, it gave a result shorter than my hair is now. I know I can grow to classic length because I reached it in December (cut back in March due to splits).

Keep growing. Take care of your health in all ways that you can. Have a positive attitude.

[louisemg82]

Yah! Go spidermom - you beat the calculator!! Now it's my turn...

[MrsGuther]

I agree with all the people that said don't pay any attention to that terminal length calculator. It's margin for error is too high. Plugging numbers into any calculation won't get you as much satisfaction as just seeing how long your hair will grow anyways. I'm pretty sure you can reach your goal!! :) I'm rooting for you!! Happy growing and good luck!

[louisemg82]

Thank you! I wonder how long I can actually grow?? I can totally see now why people go for terminal. It's curiosity mixed with awe.

[WaitingSoLong]

My calculation came up with 32.43" My hair is 39 LHC way....(runs for tape measure....taking hair out of bun...measuring actual strands...LOLing because...) the best I can tell my longest strands are an actual 32". Since I just trimmed an inch off, I can definitely say that is NOT my term length, but who knows if the numbers I plugged in are accurate?

I actually wanted to say that my aunt has terminal length hair that is just ABOVE TBL. My hair is longer than hers. I am not sure why her term. length is so short, she has FTE and her hair seems really healthy, she doesn't dye it or heat style it. Must be genetics but she is the only other member of my family with long hair so I have no one else to compare to. Her hair is rather thin. Her hair has been at TBL for years. She is in her mid 50's and I am hoping my hair does not thin out like that when I am in my 50's.

Also, there is another terminal length calculation method somewhere in the articles on LHC. It is the version where you measure your ponytail circumference at various lengths and then continue the pattern to see where 0 taper would be that and would be your term length. I did this back when I first joined and it said my term was around Classic. Given that I am about 4" from Classic I doubt that is my terminal length either. :shrug:

[EdG]

Thank you! I wonder how long I can actually grow?? I can totally see now why people go for terminal. It's curiosity mixed with awe.Exactly! :cheese:
Some people satisfy their need for adventure by climbing Mount Everest. Others go sky diving. We live our wild side by growing hair to terminal length. ;)
Ed

[skyblue]

lol!! it said my terminal length was 19 inches hahaha!

[jojo]

I think I did it wrong, it estimated me at 11"mmmmmm im 30" !

[louisemg82]

Exactly! :cheese:
Some people satisfy their need for adventure by climbing Mount Everest. Others go sky diving. We live our wild side by growing hair to terminal length. ;)
Ed
EdG, can I ask how long it took you to realise you'd hit terminal? Thanks

[Panth]

I actually wanted to say that my aunt has terminal length hair that is just ABOVE TBL. My hair is longer than hers. I am not sure why her term. length is so short, she has FTE and her hair seems really healthy, she doesn't dye it or heat style it. Must be genetics but she is the only other member of my family with long hair so I have no one else to compare to. Her hair is rather thin. Her hair has been at TBL for years. She is in her mid 50's and I am hoping my hair does not thin out like that when I am in my 50's.

The only suggestion I have is that the difference, if it is not due simply to your aunt's genetics, may be due to the age difference between yourself and her. I've heard that peak hair length on an individual is when they are in their late teens - no idea if that is true or not, but it would make sense as that is when you are (in theory, on average for the population) in peak fitness and so have the most amount of resources to "waste" on making hair.

As an example, my mum has had long hair all her life and she is not terribly kind to it (or terribly bad to it) but has kept the same methods of care and the same daily hairstyle for decades. In her early twenties, her hair was classic. Now, in her early 60s, it is just past waist. It has also thinned, as well as reducing in length.

She has not cut it (not that I can ever remember). Classic may have been terminal for her, or it may have been a false terminal based upon damage (quite possible as she has baby-fine hair and has some bad habits). In any case, with age (and also post-menopause) her hair has thinned and shortened.

I suspect that may explain some of the difference between your hair and your aunt's. ^_^

[EdG]

EdG, can I ask how long it took you to realise you'd hit terminal? ThanksI estimate that my longest strands took 8 or 9 years to grow.

As trolleypup said, terminal length isn't uniform across all hairs. I have a lot of hairs whose growth cycle is only 2 or 3 years. :)
Ed

[louisemg82]

8 or 9 years - that's dedication! Ok, only 7 or 8 years to go then :D

[torrilin]

My calculation came up with 32.43" My hair is 39 LHC way....(runs for tape measure....taking hair out of bun...measuring actual strands...LOLing because...) the best I can tell my longest strands are an actual 32". Since I just trimmed an inch off, I can definitely say that is NOT my term length, but who knows if the numbers I plugged in are accurate?

Measuring the actual hair strands means you run into the same problem Trolleypup mentioned. Not all the hairs will have the same maximum possible length, so you end up needing to be very OCD and measure every single shed strand and figure out how to decide what procedure to use to determine your length. Average? Median? Mode?

Again, total pain in the ass.

Measuring from your hairline to hemline is something that pretty much anyone can do by themselves and work out some kind of consistent results. A lot of the time, it is far more important to have a consistent baseline than to actually have the "right" answer.

[WaitingSoLong]

I estimate that my longest strands took 8 or 9 years to grow.

As trolleypup said, terminal length isn't uniform across all hairs. I have a lot of hairs whose growth cycle is only 2 or 3 years. :)
Ed

I think what the question was asking is how did you know you were at terminal length? It just didn't gain any length for a year? 6 months?

[trolleypup]

I think what the question was asking is how did you know you were at terminal length? It just didn't gain any length for a year? 6 months?
1-Not gaining length, 2-Fairytaled, 3-Consistent taper.

I was actually at terminal when I joined LHC and thought to check this. The final test was to cut off a couple inches and watch the 1/2" growth each month back to the exact same length and shape. 51", 51.5", 52", 52.5", 53", 53", 53"... If you have some runners/stragglers, this may not work so well for you.

[louisemg82]

Thanks guys, this is turning out to be a very interesting thread. Glad I asked.

[EdG]

I think what the question was asking is how did you know you were at terminal length? It just didn't gain any length for a year? 6 months?I reached terminal length sometime in 2008. I noticed it when my hair wasn't getting longer, despite not having trimmed since 2005. :)
Ed

[rchorr]

Classic has always been my goal, but I don't think my hair is capable of reaching it. Tailbone (and VERY fairy tale ends) seems to be my limit. Sigh.

RCHORR'

[gthlvrmx]

I'm not going to believe that calculator, as much fun as it may be. Everyone is different and everyone has different growing lengths at different times, and shedding rates. I know several people who have said, oh this is as far i can go (hip, shoulder) Yet i knew they could go more if they just took care of it a little more, which eventually did happen but of course they chopped it off and used heat :P
My mom says her hair never went past her bum but i believe it could go longer, i think my grandma cut her hair at that point.
My calculator said i'd reach between thigh and a little past knee once i changed the shedding rate. Honestly, i don't think it counts because some days i shed more than others.

[TheBluffs]

This calculator seems to me is flawed. My mum's terminal is BSL, yet it said 'Your growth potential is 500.00 inches.' It relies on hair sheeding versus length grown.
On a happy point, it said for me '444.44 inches'. Sounds like I'm going for way past floor. :laugh:

[WaitingSoLong]

I reached terminal length sometime in 2008. I noticed it when my hair wasn't getting longer, despite not having trimmed since 2005. :)
Ed

So are you happy at term or sad that your hair will not get any longer?

[Lynda]

<<<GRIN>>. according to this, I should never grow past a short bob!

However, I'm a thick and healthy waist length, and have been to tailbone several times in my life.

Punchline...I'm the Grandma of a 21 year old! So don't worry!

[Messyhair]

Hahaha! I love those calculators. I have actually counted my shed rate before and found that I lose 100 hairs per day, and I know my average growth rate is 0.5" monthly, so it says I should have a terminal length of 12.12". Good thing it's very, very wrong. :p

[Lynda]

I just brushed well and counted the hairs, in case I calculated wrong. I quit at 100. There were lots more. :disbelief

So, I fear :bs:on the calculator.

[spidermom]

Shhhhhhhhhhhh; don't tell my hair it's supposed to be thinning now (because of age).

[Amraann]

The calculator is wrong.
Like many others on this thread it said my terminal length is shorter then what my hair is and it is still growing.