I need hair color and/or cut advice.

[Roscata]

This is my first thread on LHC, the reason why I decided to write it is that I just feel like I might do something today that I will end up regretting.

For 10 years it's been impossible for me to grow out my hair because of days like today. Today I absolutely can't stand my layers or my color. I'm just so tired of red hair right now. I wish it was my natural color again. I want to color it brown. I also want to cut off all the layers and trim the shortest layer a bit which will take me from APL to about chin length hair.

I have been using Henna on my hair since about the middle of August 2010. I have done 3 full applications since then and the rest were root-only applications. What I am considering now is to buy some Lush henna either Dark Brown (http://www.lushusa.com/shop/products/hair/henna-hair-dyes/caca-brun-mama) or Deep Chestnut (http://www.lushusa.com/shop/products/hair/henna-hair-dyes/caca-marron-mama) whichever is closer to my natural color and try to go back to being a brunette.

My problems are:
(1) I don't know if my hair will take the brunette color or not,
(2) I don't know which one is closer to my natural color,
(3) I don't know if I will be able to go back to red hair if I decided to do that again.

I really don't want to chop off my layers because I don't want to lose the length, but I feel as though if I could at least change my color from red to brown (and back) every now and then I won't get the urge to do any big chops.

I would really appreciate any and all responses, advice and/or support concerning my issues. Thank you for reading all of this! :D :blossom:

Now for the pics:

Natural hair color and henna color.
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a207/ioana2adelina/TheLongHairComm/b4after.jpg

1/24/2011 length shot, where you can see all the layers.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=6479&pictureid=94434

[Tiina]

I have not used any type of henna myself but I know a lot of people here who have done over red henna with another colour still have had their hair look red in some light or hair still looking reddish.

As for a hair-cut, I recommend you not to chop it to chin-length at once. Try taking a little off at a time. It is easier to cut than to grow and you might find that you don't need to go all the way in order to make your hair look good. Personally, I think shoulder-length would look nice on you. :)

[CurlyZ]

Hi Roscata!
You're the one who helped me out a lot here on LHC and I'm glad I can at least TRY to return the favour:
I like both colors, natural and henna.
I can't help you regarding the dye brown-henna-brown. No experience with that at all.
I'm sure all the other henna heads can help you more.
But I do understand that you want your natural color back. (As you know I'm in the same boat).
Did you ever think of letting them grow out?
If I were you, I wouldn't chop of anything! Your hair looks very healthy and pretty.
I also like the layers. If you don't like them, why don't you just trim some inches of the longest layer every couple months till they are all gone?
Sounds loooong - I know. But time flies. Even if our impatient long hair souls don't always feel that way....
Hmmm. Reading my own response makes me feel like I'm not a great help here right now.
But the thought counts!
Let me know what your decision will be and tell us about the results!
You are in my thoughts and I'll keep fingers crossed for you!

[Roscata]

I have not used any type of henna myself but I know a lot of people here who have done over red henna with another colour still have had their hair look red in some light or hair still looking reddish.

As for a hair-cut, I recommend you not to chop it to chin-length at once. Try taking a little off at a time. It is easier to cut than to grow and you might find that you don't need to go all the way in order to make your hair look good. Personally, I think shoulder-length would look nice on you. :)

Concerning the henna: Yeah that's what I'm worried about, the reddish tint.

Concerning the length: You're right I shouldn't cut so short, if I do, I know that in less than a month I'd be in tears over it.

I appreciate the input. Thank you for your reply! :D

[Roscata]

Hi Roscata!
You're the one who helped me out a lot here on LHC and I'm glad I can at least TRY to return the favour:
I like both colors, natural and henna.
I can't help you regarding the dye brown-henna-brown. No experience with that at all.
I'm sure all the other henna heads can help you more.
But I do understand that you want your natural color back. (As you know I'm in the same boat).
Did you ever think of letting them grow out?
If I were you, I wouldn't chop of anything! Your hair looks very healthy and pretty.
I also like the layers. If you don't like them, why don't you just trim some inches of the longest layer every couple months till they are all gone?
Sounds loooong - I know. But time flies. Even if our impatient long hair souls don't always feel that way....
Hmmm. Reading my own response makes me feel like I'm not a great help here right now.
But the thought counts!
Let me know what your decision will be and tell us about the results!
You are in my thoughts and I'll keep fingers crossed for you!

Oh cool I'm so glad I was able to help you out. I always enjoy giving advice to those who ask for it. :D

I am thinking about letting it grow out, but two-toned hair is probably not for me. I think I'd be more sad over that than the red hair. I should have known that I am not dating henna and that I married it. lol After all I say that all the time.

I think I'm just going to have to learn to get over my addiction to changing colors. I'm scared to put indigo on my hair because then my hair might go green if I try to bleach it out, if I ever make that decision.

I do plan on eventually slowly trimming off my layers as my hair grows but my inability to braid my hair neatly or do anything neatly with my hair is frustrating at times. Maybe I just need to learn how to be more patient. It's not like I can just magically grow 10 inches of hair so I can cut off the parts I don't like and keep the same length I have now and love.

I appreciate the input. Thank you so much for your reply! :D

[spidermom]

What worked for me when growing out layers was getting a little trim every 6-8 weeks. My hairstylist would take about 1/2 inch off the length and 1/4 inch off the layers. That way it never got shaggy looking. Everything blended and the layers all grew out. It took about 3 years, and my hair went from pixie to BSL in that time.

Have you considered colors that gradually fade out? For instance you could go back to brunette, but use perhaps a Manic-Panic red when you were in the mood for a change. I don't think they make a brown, but they do make a black, which probably wouldn't be true black over henna red but maybe a plum color.

[BabyRay33]

I think your henna hair is beautiful and looks nice with your skin tone. I second the Manic Panic- you might not be able to get rid of the red completely, but you can cover it up a bit to make the plum color.

In regards to the cut, I think you should only do a trim and then try giving that a couple weeks, and if its not good enough for you, then try again and then wait again.

Sometimes having patience instead of making the rash decision is really the better way to go.

[Calaelen]

Hi :) Hairstylist jumping in to give a little advice. First of all, I want to say that I know where your at, I've been every colour in the spectrum and many unnatural ones as well, I am also very familiar with Henna. As a natural blonde that can't stand her natural colour, I am doomed to colour for life.

I think the colour you've achieved with Henna is stunning. It is such a nice shade and SO shiny.
You would be able to get some of the red tone covered up with a brown henna, but the red would still show through very obviously. I know this because I've done it many times. Sometimes I long for the red shade, and other times I just want it GONE. The only thing I've found that can cover it up mostly is a brass free brown chemical colour. For this, I always use Natural Instincts "Brass Free" collection, but I must warn, in order to really cover the red you'll have to go darker than your natural shade, so you'd still have the root issue to deal with.

I took a look at your pics, and I really do love the henna red on you, but if you really want a change you're either going to have to go quite a bit darker, or deal with the red tint that will show through no matter which method of colouring you choose.

As for cutting, I can see why you're frustrated. As Spidermom commented, perhaps getting mini trims often could be an option for you. For this to work without you losing too much of your length and still gaining some, it would be helpful to know how much length you grow a month. I will go with the standard 1/2 inch per month for my example. Say your getting 1/2 in per month of growth. To get rid of some of the layering, especially the much longer parts in the middle you could have 1/4 in cut off per month and still be getting some length while eliminating some of the layering. It would of course be a long process, but with a goal of classic, you're in it for the long run anyway.

I think this type of mini trimming would help you reach your goals sooner, rather than waiting for it to grow to a length where you'd be comfortable with a big chop to even out the layers.

Good Luck!!

[einna]

Hi. First of all I have to say that your henna colour is beautiful!
It seems to me like what you really want is just a change. What about learning to cut your own hair? (if you dont usually do this it would allow you to learn a new thing, and thus give you a sense of change). Feyes tutorial for a V-cut would suit you. Start slowly ;)

Oh, and remember the two week rule ;) I really think it has helped a lot of people.

[Roscata]

What worked for me when growing out layers was getting a little trim every 6-8 weeks. My hairstylist would take about 1/2 inch off the length and 1/4 inch off the layers. That way it never got shaggy looking. Everything blended and the layers all grew out. It took about 3 years, and my hair went from pixie to BSL in that time.

Have you considered colors that gradually fade out? For instance you could go back to brunette, but use perhaps a Manic-Panic red when you were in the mood for a change. I don't think they make a brown, but they do make a black, which probably wouldn't be true black over henna red but maybe a plum color.

Small trims are a great idea, I think I'm going to do that as soon as I'm done with the no trims in 2011 challenge, that way my hair will be a little longer and easier to deal with maybe?

I didn't think of Maniac Panic that is an awesome idea. I think I should do that. I wonder if it would harm my hair at all though.


I think your henna hair is beautiful and looks nice with your skin tone. I second the Manic Panic- you might not be able to get rid of the red completely, but you can cover it up a bit to make the plum color.

In regards to the cut, I think you should only do a trim and then try giving that a couple weeks, and if its not good enough for you, then try again and then wait again.

Sometimes having patience instead of making the rash decision is really the better way to go.

You're right. I am going to give myself at least two weeks to think about this. It's just that I've been putting up with this different length hair for over a year and a half now. It's maddening. lol


Hi :) Hairstylist jumping in to give a little advice. First of all, I want to say that I know where your at, I've been every colour in the spectrum and many unnatural ones as well, I am also very familiar with Henna. As a natural blonde that can't stand her natural colour, I am doomed to colour for life.

I think the colour you've achieved with Henna is stunning. It is such a nice shade and SO shiny.
You would be able to get some of the red tone covered up with a brown henna, but the red would still show through very obviously. I know this because I've done it many times. Sometimes I long for the red shade, and other times I just want it GONE. The only thing I've found that can cover it up mostly is a brass free brown chemical colour. For this, I always use Natural Instincts "Brass Free" collection, but I must warn, in order to really cover the red you'll have to go darker than your natural shade, so you'd still have the root issue to deal with.

I took a look at your pics, and I really do love the henna red on you, but if you really want a change you're either going to have to go quite a bit darker, or deal with the red tint that will show through no matter which method of colouring you choose.

As for cutting, I can see why you're frustrated. As Spidermom commented, perhaps getting mini trims often could be an option for you. For this to work without you losing too much of your length and still gaining some, it would be helpful to know how much length you grow a month. I will go with the standard 1/2 inch per month for my example. Say your getting 1/2 in per month of growth. To get rid of some of the layering, especially the much longer parts in the middle you could have 1/4 in cut off per month and still be getting some length while eliminating some of the layering. It would of course be a long process, but with a goal of classic, you're in it for the long run anyway.

I think this type of mini trimming would help you reach your goals sooner, rather than waiting for it to grow to a length where you'd be comfortable with a big chop to even out the layers.

Good Luck!!

Mini-trimming is starting to look better and better.

I am not willing to try permanent chemical dyes on my hair when it comes to coloring, for some reason my hair just looks instantly fried, lifeless and dry as soon as I do that and if my hair looks like that I don't even want it long. This is why I am curios about how damaging Maniac Panic is to hair because my hair is pretty easily damaged.



Hi. First of all I have to say that your henna colour is beautiful!
It seems to me like what you really want is just a change. What about learning to cut your own hair? (if you dont usually do this it would allow you to learn a new thing, and thus give you a sense of change). Feyes tutorial for a V-cut would suit you. Start slowly ;)

Oh, and remember the two week rule ;) I really think it has helped a lot of people.

I definitely want to do self-trims only. I do NOT want to be yet another LHC member who got a haircut where the stylist cut a lot more than asked. :scared:

Two week rule is something that I should definitely do.

Thank you all for taking the time to read and reply to my post, I really appreciate it! :) :D

[Firefox7275]

If you cut short now and still want long hair in the future, you will have to go through the getting-to-shoulders bit all over again. :( I can't stand growing long hair with layers in, I have to keep cutting a bit off the bottom every couple of months until it's one length - why not try that? Say two inches to get a thicker hemline, then another two inches a few weeks later if that is not sufficient. And I totally agree you should try a semi-permanent; AFAIK they are not damaging at all providing you treat your hair with respect whilst it is damp and you are applying (I am guilty of dragging the comb through mine as I section :o ). In any case if the alternative is a permanent in a fit of pique then surely a little damage is better than a lot?

[Calaelen]

Mini-trimming is starting to look better and better.

I am not willing to try permanent chemical dyes on my hair when it comes to coloring, for some reason my hair just looks instantly fried, lifeless and dry as soon as I do that and if my hair looks like that I don't even want it long. This is why I am curios about how damaging Maniac Panic is to hair because my hair is pretty easily damaged.

I definitely want to do self-trims only. I do NOT want to be yet another LHC member who got a haircut where the stylist cut a lot more than asked. :scared:

Two week rule is something that I should definitely do.

Thank you all for taking the time to read and reply to my post, I really appreciate it! :) :D

I should have added in my explanation that the Natural Instincts line I recommended is a Demi Permanent colour which does not include ammonia. It is much less damaging than other dyes, because it is deposit only and does not lift your hair, of course I'd be lying if I said it was chemical free, or that I could assure 100% that you'd get no damage at all..

Manic panic is not damaging at all, it is a vegetable based dye which is not at all permanent. It will not give you much coverage at all without using peroxide to bleach your hair because it needs extremely high porosity to stick. While you may get a very light coverage over the henna, I do not believe that it would give you long lasting or even dramatic results, especially because of Henna's coating action of the hair. Another thing to note is that their black shade is blue based, so you may end up with purple hair..though I cannot say for sure.

Self trimming is definitely recommended :D Especially if you're only looking to cut 1/4 inch. As an alternative, Barbers are well known to be able to cut as little as an 1/8 of an inch, and they don't usually get scissor happy...I've gone to a barber a few times myself, and while they may find me a tad odd, they don't turn away my service..lol

[Roscata]

If you cut short now and still want long hair in the future, you will have to go through the getting-to-shoulders bit all over again. :( I can't stand growing long hair with layers in, I have to keep cutting a bit off the bottom every couple of months until it's one length - why not try that? Say two inches to get a thicker hemline, then another two inches a few weeks later if that is not sufficient. And I totally agree you should try a semi-permanent; AFAIK they are not damaging at all providing you treat your hair with respect whilst it is damp and you are applying (I am guilty of dragging the comb through mine as I section :o ). In any case if the alternative is a permanent in a fit of pique then surely a little damage is better than a lot?

Slowly trimming layers off sounds good.

What's AFAIK?


I should have added in my explanation that the Natural Instincts line I recommended is a Demi Permanent colour which does not include ammonia. It is much less damaging than other dyes, because it is deposit only and does not lift your hair, of course I'd be lying if I said it was chemical free, or that I could assure 100% that you'd get no damage at all..

Manic panic is not damaging at all, it is a vegetable based dye which is not at all permanent. It will not give you much coverage at all without using peroxide to bleach your hair because it needs extremely high porosity to stick. While you may get a very light coverage over the henna, I do not believe that it would give you long lasting or even dramatic results, especially because of Henna's coating action of the hair. Another thing to note is that their black shade is blue based, so you may end up with purple hair..though I cannot say for sure.

Self trimming is definitely recommended :D Especially if you're only looking to cut 1/4 inch. As an alternative, Barbers are well known to be able to cut as little as an 1/8 of an inch, and they don't usually get scissor happy...I've gone to a barber a few times myself, and while they may find me a tad odd, they don't turn away my service..lol

Maniac panic is probably the way I'm going to go. I didn't know it was vegetable based, that's an awesome piece of information.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is what I have decided based on all your replies:
- when I want to change my color I will use Maniac Panic
- I am going to try as hard as I can to finish the no trims in 2011 challenge
- in 2012 I will start slowly trimming off the layers probably once inch every 4-6 months
- I will be using the self-trim method

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A big thank you to everyone who took the time to read and reply to my post! :blossom: :D

[CurlyZ]

Slowly trimming layers off sounds good.

What's AFAIK?



Maniac panic is probably the way I'm going to go. I didn't know it was vegetable based, that's an awesome piece of information.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is what I have decided based on all your replies:
- when I want to change my color I will use Maniac Panic
- I am going to try as hard as I can to finish the no trims in 2011 challenge
- in 2012 I will start slowly trimming off the layers probably once inch every 4-6 months
- I will be using the self-trim method

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A big thank you to everyone who took the time to read and reply to my post! :blossom: :D


Did you ever do the self-trim method?
Let me know how that works for you!
I never did it, but I'm seriously considering it.

[Vorvolaka]

AFAIK = as far as I know

Anyway, to the hair: I'm suggesting Manic Panic, or another vegetable based dye, too. Honestly, I love it. I've grown out dye before (and am doing it again now) it saved me from rash decisions so many times.

As for the length, I lived in pony tails at your length. Yes, they get boring but I jazzed them up with clips and lace braids.

[Roscata]

AFAIK = as far as I know

Anyway, to the hair: I'm suggesting Manic Panic, or another vegetable based dye, too. Honestly, I love it. I've grown out dye before (and am doing it again now) it saved me from rash decisions so many times.

As for the length, I lived in pony tails at your length. Yes, they get boring but I jazzed them up with clips and lace braids.

Haha @ as far as I know. I'm such a chat noob lol.

Ponytails are great. That's something I've been thinking about too. That's what I usually do but since finding LHC I've been trying to steer clear from them. I think I am changing that tactic though because ponytails rock! lol. :D

[xoxophelia]

With your length you could also do a peacock twist which isn't damaging. Cute clips can be found :)

I don't think you should worry too much about the layers until about BSL which may be around the end of your no trims year so I agree with you plan. You may not like them for your own reasons but they do look fine and probably most people would not even think you want them gone. I grew out (still growing out to a degree) extreme layers and I think what helped me the most was to just not care. Also eventually, even if you don't trim out ALL the layered hair, it does start to blend in. My guess would be if you get the bottom about 4" off during 2012/2013 you would be good to go to waist ^^

[Debra83]

Haha @ as far as I know. I'm such a chat noob lol.

Ponytails are great. That's something I've been thinking about too. That's what I usually do but since finding LHC I've been trying to steer clear from them. I think I am changing that tactic though because ponytails rock! lol. :D

TWO WEEK RULE!!!! (I cut so many times on impulse, emotions, AND dyed too many times, sometimes in the same week, pre LHC!!)

Beware of ponytail holders, but your hair looks thicker than mine for sure (I incurred quite a bit of breakage after coming here using ponytail holders that I thought were safe!)

[jojo]

I have used 2 lush brun/marron applications and got simialr to your colour and then I did 2 powdered red hennas and now because my greys are coming through, thick and fast have decided to let it grow out. I don't know why but the henna has faded a lot in my hair, although still has red hues in the sun it looks totally natural. My natural hair colour is dark blond/light brown with natural copper highlights and even with an inch or so of growth there is no obvious grow line.

Nobody's hair colour is one block colour and even in all virgin colour the ends are lighter than roots and the overall hair has multiple of colours. Therefore why not just grow out and see how your roots look. As for layers you can even just dust the hemline until the layers catch up or try the miconazole (monistat or daktarin) treatments on just the layered bits.

[spidermom]

I got great coverage and fair staying power when I used Punky (similar to Manic Panic), and my hair is not bleached. Of course it can't lighten dark colors, but it can add new tones.
New color March 2010
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c79/spidermom/outside.jpg
Faded color June 2010
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c79/spidermom/summerlength.jpg

[summerjade]

Lots of good advice from everyone here!! I think it is a good idea to not jump into a cut. More than likely you will regret it afterward. The minitrims are good advice. I have learned that by experience. As far as color, you really have a pretty haircolor (natural and henna)and healthy hair also.

[Roscata]

I got great coverage and fair staying power when I used Punky (similar to Manic Panic), and my hair is not bleached. Of course it can't lighten dark colors, but it can add new tones.
New color March 2010
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c79/spidermom/outside.jpg
Faded color June 2010
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c79/spidermom/summerlength.jpg

I'll look into it. Wow all the color just washed right off. My hair is so porous that I used semi-permanent black dye and after waiting for 2 months and bleaching it 3 times I could still see the black.


Lots of good advice from everyone here!! I think it is a good idea to not jump into a cut. More than likely you will regret it afterward. The minitrims are good advice. I have learned that by experience. As far as color, you really have a pretty haircolor (natural and henna)and healthy hair also.

Yeah mini-trims sound good.
Thank you! :D

[jesis]

With the Lush Caca Henna, I use noir, but I still get some red tint, and it looks black with red highlights in low light and light brown with red highlights in the sunlight. I'm very happy with it, but it might not be what you're looking for.

I think the best thing might be to put it up and forget about it! Or maybe just do the inch at a time thing

[Roscata]

With the Lush Caca Henna, I use noir, but I still get some red tint, and it looks black with red highlights in low light and light brown with red highlights in the sunlight. I'm very happy with it, but it might not be what you're looking for.

I think the best thing might be to put it up and forget about it! Or maybe just do the inch at a time thing

That's cool. I'll think about it, but I'm afraid of indigo because it turns green if combined with peroxide.
Thank you for your reply! :D

[Lollipop]

I have no experience in hair dye seeing as I have never altered my hair color (exept by the sun?), so take this with a grain of salt:

What about amla? Amla is supposed to tone down the red in henna and make it more brown. If anyone else already mentioned it, sorry, I'm tired :p

[jojo]

New color March 2010
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c79/spidermom/outside.jpg
wow ive never seen this, it looks brilliant!

[spidermom]

Thanks jojo. I'm going to dye my hair like an Oestre (easter) egg again this year, too.

[Roscata]

I have no experience in hair dye seeing as I have never altered my hair color (exept by the sun?), so take this with a grain of salt:

What about amla? Amla is supposed to tone down the red in henna and make it more brown. If anyone else already mentioned it, sorry, I'm tired :p

Oh yeah I forgot about Amla! Thank you for your suggestion! I will look into that. :D

[Roscata]

I know it's been a while but I have an update of what I tried and worked, tried and failed and my absolute final decision, with lots of pictures! :D


Ok so I did strand tests and I have pics, that's the good news. the bad news is that none of the tests were what I would call successful.
left side Buxus Dioica (also known as katam)+henna (50%-50%), right side Buxus Dioica (also known as katam)+henna+amla (33%-33%-33%) (the braids are the test strands)
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a207/ioana2adelina/TheLongHairComm/buxusstrandtest-1.jpg

Clariol brass free (medium brown) right side 10 minute development, left side 30 minute development
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a207/ioana2adelina/TheLongHairComm/clariolstrandtest.jpg

Clarion brass free 10 minute development compared to present hair color
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a207/ioana2adelina/TheLongHairComm/clariolcomparison10min.jpg

Clarion brass free 30 minute development compared to present hair color
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a207/ioana2adelina/TheLongHairComm/clariolcomparison30min.jpg

Lush caca brun mama (the only test that gave a visible result)
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a207/ioana2adelina/TheLongHairComm/lushcacabrun.jpg

In conclusion I didn't see a diminished redness of hair in any of my tests except for the Lush test, in which case my strand was way darker than my natural hair color which means the demarcation line would be a lot more obvious. I think I'm just going to try growing it out because at least that way, anywhere else but the sun and flash photos my hair will seem like it almost doesn't have a demarcation line. :)

Also after waiting for 2 months, I did a one inch self-trim and that made me a lot happier about my hair which means I don't want to do a big chop anymore.
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a207/ioana2adelina/TheLongHairComm/beforeaftertrim.png

Once again a big thank you to everyone that gave me advice! :D