Contemplating a very light perm...

[FluffSpider]

Hello, good folks of LHC! Now now, don't freak out (too bad) at reading the word'perm'.

It's just that my hair is blah. Capital B Blah. It's naturally nicely straight, but the hairs are so fine that they catch curls very easily, and deform the straightness. If I sleep with a pony, I'll wake up with a wave. A SINGLE wave.

Why perm then? Because any pretty bun curls I get by morning deflate themselves in 2-3 hours, and end up looking like my hair is a very indeterminate straight-with-a-wish-for-wave. It's driving me insane; I need to either sacrifice the straight sleekness and sleep with it in a bun, which will result in very nice curls when I wake up(which will be done by the second term and look horrid) or risk sleeping with it loose and not having ANY idea how it'll look in the morning.

I think another + for a light perm would be that I'm an ii, not an iii... my hair tends to look pretty thin when it greases ever so slightly.Curls seem to give it some more body. I'm not thinking curling all of it, just some loose BIG spirals from the shoulders down-what I would get from a bun.
Is there any natural way to accomplish this? Should I take the plunge?

[Capybara]

I think that, if it would make you happier with your hair, it may be a good idea. However, I've never had a perm myself - I don't know what damage they can cause.

I do have an example of what comes to mind when you describe what you want, though - here is a blog entry where a girl got her hair permed, and it's quite pretty!

http://sheylara.com/2009/12/check-out-my-newly-damaged-hair/

Unfortunaltely the title of a post seems a bit off putting :o

[Kathie]

What about using styling products to hold the bun waves etc? They may be better for your hair than a perm in the long run??
The thing with a perm is you need to grow it out, or keep getting it done.

[FluffSpider]

@ Kathie: I have NO idea what product to use*blushes* wax-no, gel-nope(too shiny and 'crispy"), foam... maybe, but on the length? don't know. hairspray-no idea.
Also, I would do it from shoulders down, so no need to touch up...well, okay, perhaps once every 2 years*giggles*

[Kathie]

I guess my first thought was mousse , but some hairsprays can be quite nice too... with both you might want one that has a med to soft hold so it moves naturally.Yeah, you don’t want the crispies :)

Mousse was my first thought because you can work it through the length of damp hair bun and let it dry.

Eeep, I just did a search for mousse and curls in google and there are heaps of potential products!

I’m edging towards something less permanent so you could have the best of both worlds.

[FluffSpider]

Well, you'll laugh but I have been avoiding styling products because of the drying factor. I looked over the flexivolume from Wella or what its name is, and among other things it has Formic Acid. That creeps me out. But I guess it's silly, not using mousse because of damage but wanting to perm*laughs* I was just figuring I might make the damage go away with some henna and deep conditioners...

[HairColoredHair]

There's no such thing as a 'light' perm, imho... Since to have any lasting effect it has to denature the proteins in your hair to some degree...

[FluffSpider]

Light as in no ammonia, left on for less time etc. But I understand where you're coming from!

[daemonwildcat]

There's no such thing as a 'light' perm, imho... Since to have any lasting effect it has to denature the proteins in your hair to some degree...

I'm not the OP, but I read it as she wanted a light perm in term of curls- like large loose spirals instead of an 80's kink :D

That said, I have deathly straight hair too, and I second the use of products. I don't mess with stuff in my hair too often, but a touch of mousse or a light hold hairspray go a long way in giving me nice curls to stay for a while, and I like the peace of mind of just being able to wash it out when I want straight hair again. I permed my hair once and it took FOREVER to grow out, and looked awful while it was in the process since 1/2 my hair was stick straight and 1/2 was curly.

[vanillabones]

My goal once I have long virgin hair (all my nasty dye bleach damage grown out and cut) is to get a loose body wave type of perm as well. I have the same exact type of hair as you only even thinner, if there was anything under an 'i' it'd be me. I think it would look lovely and I'd only choose that over using product and sleeping with a bun/braids all the time simply because I am so lazy and it would almost then finally be the 'real' hair's texture not knowing I have that flimsy flat hair to look forward to after each shower :( I'd research it a lot more if I were you and if you hair has been well taken care of up to this point and is strong I'd definitely go for it :D

[islandboo]

That said, I have deathly straight hair too, and I second the use of products. I don't mess with stuff in my hair too often, but a touch of mousse or a light hold hairspray go a long way in giving me nice curls to stay for a while, and I like the peace of mind of just being able to wash it out when I want straight hair again. I permed my hair once and it took FOREVER to grow out, and looked awful while it was in the process since 1/2 my hair was stick straight and 1/2 was curly.

My hair makes soft pretty waves when I let it down from a bun, especially if I made it while the hair is still damp. However, it just can't hold them at all - it completely relaxes in about an hour. Since your hair is sort of similar to mine I was wondering if you have any specific brands you would recommend?

[heidihug]

I agree that there is no such thing as a "light" perm. I do believe the OP means one that is only done on part of her hair, and is not tight curls, correct? But, a perm is a perm is a perm, and they are so very destructive - I know from experience, I'be had probably seven or eight in my life. And each one, no matter what chemicals or techniques were used, caused horrible damage to my hair. I would advise against getting a perm unless you plan on cutting the damage off sometime in the future, and won't mind losing the length. When I want curls to stay in, I use product, like a styling leave-in. But I only do that once or twice a year, so I'm not the best one for advice when it come to creating curls.

[lyria]

Sounds risky to me, but you have to do what is right for you. You are still pretty new here, maybe you should look around at non-chemical methods to create styles first?

[spidermom]

My hair did fine with one perm, but it began to look odd as my hair grew out because the permed texture was much different from my natural texture. I decided to get a second perm after about one year; it was either that, or get the permed length cut off. The second perm is when my hair curled up and fried. So then I went very short, which looked AWFUL.

That's the problem with perms. The new growth won't play nice with the permed length.

[TwilightBloom]

I have had perms, and been to cosmetology school, there is no such thing as a light perm. When you perm, you break the bonds of your hair, the natural pattern is disrupted. If your hair is healthy it may not cause it to be badly damaged or frizzy, but then you have to do it again 6 months later to keep the effect, and sometimes sooner. I give my mom a perm about every 3 month, she has always gotten them, and her hair is thin, frizzy, and she just gets the perms for the body, she does the curls it and teases it and sprays it with spray. I have seen some really pretty curls, but after you do it for a while your hair will probably not like you very much. I have had perms before, and now that i look back, I wonder why i ever did that to my hair. The curls were never perfect, and i always got frizz. It may go differently for you, if you decide to do it, I hope it does go well, but i know i will never go there again. I hope this helps, Do what makes you happy, cause it is you that you have to please..

[akilina]

id get a spiral perm rolled with bigger rods so its a nice loose curl.

[kwaniesiam]

Light as in no ammonia, left on for less time etc. But I understand where you're coming from!

There is no such thing as a light perm.

Ammonia is a key ingredient in a perm, it's what softens and swells the cuticle in preparation for the perm solution to work and you cannot leave it on for less time or the curl will not take. I wouldn't do it, but that's just me. If you really want to have a perm get one done with larger rods to give you a looser curl but be aware since your hair is so fine and straight it might not take well and you'll still be left with the damage.

Also, those "beach wave" temporary perms, they are essentially the same thing as a regular perm. They still work in the same manner and are no less damaging so be wary if anyone suggests those.

[brunette]

I once asked my hairstylist at the time about perming my hair, this was way before I was interested in growing longer, so probably about 15 years ago. I said I wanted loose large bouncy curls and she told me this was not possible, the effect I wanted was the result of being set on large rollers.

It's definitely something worth thinking over properly, discussing with your hairdresser and researching well before doing it. In my opinion us 'superfinies' are liable to suffer more with damage from such permanent and harsh treatment.

[Arya]

I have pretty fine hair that takes curls really fast, but loses them fast as well. I've found that the way to get my hair to keep a curl is to let it dry in buns/curlers.
To get straight hair, I pull it into a tight bun (my temples have a tendancy to curl, and this pulls it straight) and let it dry that way. Once the top of my hair is dry, I either keep the bun in to let it dry that way for curls, or brush it out for straight hair.

As for sleeping, I've started using a big old scrunchy, and it seems to not kink my hair as badly in the morning.

[Roseate]

Since you haven't really tried products yet, I'd go that route before committing to a perm. Any dryness you get from products is reversible, unlike a perm.

I had to do a lot of trial and error to find products I liked to hold my natural curl. My favorites are flaxseed gel (I buy mine from etsy, but you can also make it yourself) or diluted setting lotion (http://www.sallybeauty.com/setting-lotion/LTABDY2,default,pd.html?cm_vc=CROSSSELL). Both hold my curls without feeling coated at all, both are very light, liquid textures, no alcohol or cones. The setting lotion is great to put in a spritzer bottle with water and spray on before doing a bun, really enhances bunwaves. I haven't experienced any damage or dryness from using these.

[AnnaJamila]

My advice for perms is threefold.

#1 The first perm you get is almost always the nicest it will ever look. Don't expect the next one to replicate the results you had.

#2 The curls usually end up about 2 or 3 times tighter than you think they will.

#3 Your hair usually sustains A LOT more damage than you expect. When you take it home you think "OK, this is fine, I can handle this level of damage" a month later you can barely get your fingers through it.

Perms are one of the routine styling services offered by salons that routinely mess up. I've seen them done beautifully, and since you don't plan on doing your whole head or doing tight curls, you are a prime candidate for perming. Before you jump off the deep end, however, I would advise giving products a whirl. They might surprise you.

The two products I would recommend for bun waves are texture spray and mousse. Spray very slightly (damper if you think it will dry by morning) damp hair with the texturizer (not enough to get it wet, just enough to put a thin coating on the hair) and then put a walnut sized ball of mousse foam in your hand. Use a wide toothed comb to distribute the foam evenly through the hair and smooth the hair as much as you can before twisting it up into a bun and covering with a night cap. The night cap or head wrap will keep the bun in place and keep the hair smooth by preventing the pillow from rubbing against it all night. Leave it up as long as you possibly can, and if you want really good hold, use a diffuser on a hairdryer to warm the bun. DO NOT JUST USE THE REGULAR HAIRDRYER. The diffuser keeps the hot air from blowing at your hair, thereby transfering only the heat which will cut down a bit on damage. Let the bun cool completely before taking down the hair.

When the bun is down touch it as little as you possibly can, if you don't need to comb it don't, and for goodness sake don't brush!!! ETA: If you want straight hair that stays straight, take it down when warm and brush thoroughly.

The brand I like for hair products is Garnier Fructise, they tend to be more moisturizing, but that could just be my hair talking! I don't know if they make a texturizing spray, but that shouldn't be too hard to find, especially since we're moving into summer. When you get a mousse start out with a medium hold, if you need less get soft set or low hold, if you need more get a higher intensity. Try to see if they sell mousse in travel sizes- it can be a good way to try several types without having a whole bunch of bottles clanking around!

Also, have you thought of experimenting with up-dos? That could be a quicker (well, after practice maybe ;) ) solution and there would be no damage!

Whatever you do, though, remember to do lots of deep conditioning treatments!

I find the benefits of these are greatly increased if the time spent with oil/SM moisture treatment on your head is utilized making kissy faces at yourself or eating good chocolate! ;)

[Deborah]

Let's face it: Perms do permanent damage to your hair. Hair does not 'heal' from this.

If you want your hair really straight, maybe sleep with it wrapped around your head. That would probably do it. When you want soft waves or light curls, set it on rollers overnight or maybe get a set of those Caruso steam rollers. They are not supposed to damage the hair.

Obviously if you are not concerned with permanent damage to your hair, so ahead and get the perm. But since you don't even trust mild hair products (I don't either) I doubt that you will be happy with the condition of your hair after perming it.

[FluffSpider]

Thank you all for your replies!
I've always heard my mum saying she gets the 'light' perms, so I thought they were like dye, ammonia or no ammonia-thank you for clearing that up. Now I know what to expect if I ever take the plunge-which I probably won't. I've tried too hard to get the baby hair into a decent state, I'm not willing to sacrifice it to that extent. I'll study the setting lotions you all suggested.
Again, thank you all for your input! You're all really awesome:)

[lapushka]

Thank you all for your replies!
I've always heard my mum saying she gets the 'light' perms, so I thought they were like dye, ammonia or no ammonia-thank you for clearing that up. Now I know what to expect if I ever take the plunge-which I probably won't. I've tried too hard to get the baby hair into a decent state, I'm not willing to sacrifice it to that extent. I'll study the setting lotions you all suggested.
Again, thank you all for your input! You're all really awesome:)

I'm sorry I'm a little bit late to this thread. I'm glad you made the decision not to perm. I got a perm about 2 years ago, for practical reasons. I don't regret the decision - at all - but still, a perm on long hair takes a long long *long* time to grow out. You'll be stuck with that perm for many years. If I were to have my perm cut off, I'd have APL hair, or just about. Yes, it's still growing out after 2 years and I'm not even halfway. My hair's WL, BTW, and the ends are very damaged. I have about 2 inches worth of damage that I'm having gradually trimmed off. There's a few splits but mostly white dots and not just at the very ends, but quite high up. I have enjoyed that perm, still am, but... it gets tiring, all those years of not seeing your own texture.

[jil]

I keep hearing about digital perms. I'm guessing that they are just as damaging as traditional perms. But I read that the stylist can achieve more "natural looking" waves with a digital perm. Though I would agree with all of the posters who suggested trying products first!

[NouvelleNymphe2]

i third what annajamilla and deborah said. i'm a finey and was tired of my flat hair and decided to perm. biggest mistake ever. the first month, you could feel the damage but it was still manageable. one month later my hair started snapping off near the roots. not only that, but it has honestly taken me 2 years to grow out all of that damage. it is only now that my hair (almost two years later) is completely natural and starting to come in fuller and stronger. i vote heck no.

[bonnie1735]

I was one that had a perm go bad. I had hip lenth, very thick, very straight hair but I wanted curls and I wanted a perm because every one else was doing it. It looked good at first but my hair started to break off about 3 to 4 inches from my scalp. I would wash (before LHC when I washed daily) my hair and my hands would get so much hair wound around them it was so terrible I couldn't finish my shower because my hands were so covered in hair. I remember laying down in the shower and just crying. It continued to break off and I tried everything to save it but I couldn't. I ended up having to get it all cut off to a pixie cut. It is now at tailbone, very thick and still very straight. That's what kind of hair I have and I have learned to love what I have. Work with what you got and learn to love it. Ok, I am off the soap box. Just do some really good and long thinking before you take the plunge.