What does my hair need?

[CurlAhead]

First, I understand it is kind of difficult to tell what my hair is in need of, but I would appreciate if anyone could give it a try, since I am completely lost. Okay, my hair is just a mess, and has been for a couple of years now (since I cut it). It looks sort of manageable in the photos, which surprises me because in reality it feels and looks like hay, it is dry and some of the hairs are like... I don't know, picture a sewing thread, which you twist both ends in opposite directions. And of course I have a lot of split ends., though I don't know why, since I had it trimmed not long ago and have treated it well (I hope so? I have stopped using heat tools, I wash with conditioner and I do deep conditioners pretty often, I wear it up most of the time etc) As I mentioned in another thread, I have now also started taking daily vitamins.

[annieangel149]

okay.... i would suggest try conditioner only washes for a few weeks and see if that helps! stay away from shampoo altogether for a while! conditrioner will still clean your scalp and hair - its just a more gentle cleanser which is what your hair may need right now!!

oops just read your post again ! sorry am i right in saying you are doing that already? hmmm! have you tried oil on your hair?

oh and what do you put your hair up with! if its elastics that may not be helping! elastics can give you splits! i think scrunchies are a little kinder but i will only use a claw clip now!

[CurlAhead]

okay.... i would suggest try conditioner only washes for a few weeks and see if that helps! stay away from shampoo altogether for a while! conditrioner will still clean your scalp and hair - its just a more gentle cleanser which is what your hair may need right now!!

oops just read your post again ! sorry am i right in saying you are doing that already? hmmm! have you tried oil on your hair?

Heh, yes you are right, I am already washing with conditioner. Have done that for a while, though no noticeable difference.. :(
Yes, I have tried olive oil and coconut oil, several times. Both applying it all over my hair to let it soak it up (which it did not, lol :p I was so sure my hair could "receive" a lot of oil but I ended up looking like I hadn't washed my hair for two years :p ) and also just putting it on the ends, that worked a little better because the ends soaked it up though it was still dry, if not even dryer.

I have thought of trying henna and cassia for a long time, but since trying Herbiques Cassia and "black henna" with bad experiences, I'm not as positive anymore even though I know Herbique's henna may not be the best....

[sweet&sourkiwi]

Have you tried conditioning with a heavy conditioner after co-washing? Have you tried a diluted lemon-water rinse? Have you checked for proteins in your conditioner (or if you aren't using proteins, tried them?)

Maybe chelating would help, if you have super hard water? I use a chelating shampoo by Joico to get all the minerals off that regular clarifying shampoo can't.

Sorry you are having such a rough time!

[annieangel149]

okay... have you ever tried keeping conditioner on overnight and do you use a hot oil treatment?

years ago i knew someone that had to do both of those things!

[CurlAhead]

Have you tried conditioning with a heavy conditioner after co-washing? Have you tried a diluted lemon-water rinse? Have you checked for proteins in your conditioner (or if you aren't using proteins, tried them?)

Maybe chelating would help, if you have super hard water? I use a chelating shampoo by Joico to get all the minerals off that regular clarifying shampoo can't.

Sorry you are having such a rough time!

What exactly is a heavy conditioner? I have tried washing my hair with deep conditioners but it gave no result. I haven't tried rinsing with diluted lemon water because I have read that lemon can make the hair very dry. I have tried using conditioners with and without proteins, but it makes no difference. In fact, to have my hair the slightest manageable, I have to do some kind of wrapping when it is still a little wet, to make the curls straighter so it looks nicer..

What is chelating? I'm sorry if I seem kind of dumb, but english is not my first language and when I translate the word I probably look like this; :confused:
I did a vinegar rinse today, does that count?

However, thank you for taking the time to answer, I appreciate it!


okay... have you ever tried keeping conditioner on overnight and do you use a hot oil treatment?

years ago i knew someone that had to do both of those things!

Yes, I did that recently and my hair looked okay for one day. (When I had made an updo to "straighten" the hair) After that, it was back to where I started. :(

I have heard the term "hot oil treatment" before, but I haven't really managed to figure out what it means exactly..

[FluffSpider]

If by treating your hair that way it's still dry, and 'messy' as you put it, I would believe it's build-up.Does your conditioner have proteins or cones?Also, oils can leave build-up. I had a nasty protein build-up about a year ago, and recovered by using intensive moisturising conditioners and masks

[Anje]

Ever try an SMT (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=128)? I'm not a curly, but it's definitely one of my favorite moisture treatments. Just be sure you rinse it fully -- unlike just conditioner, this stuff's pretty sticky as it dries.

Do you leave any conditioner in your hair after washing to help define your curls? That might help you out too. You might also want to check out Tightly Curly (http://www.tightlycurly.com/welcome) and/or read the Curly Girl book if you haven't yet. Both will probably give you some ideas that are particularly targeted to your texture.

[Fairlight63]

My hair was so dry & tangly it was like velcou. What helped my hair was to shampoo with a clarifiny shampoo (I used Suave) left it on 3 min. Rinsed Then I put a Pantene Pro V Restoratives Time Renewal cond. on it. Put it especially on the ends & leave it on for 3 min.

It has cones in it - which I have found out my hair LOVES! I tried the no cones route & my hair HATED it. It was SO DRY and tangly & felt like brittle hay.

Good luck!

[CurlAhead]

If by treating your hair that way it's still dry, and 'messy' as you put it, I would believe it's build-up.Does your conditioner have proteins or cones?Also, oils can leave build-up. I had a nasty protein build-up about a year ago, and recovered by using intensive moisturising conditioners and masks

No, I don't use products with cones anymore, (washed with a shampoo containing sulfates several times before starting with the CO method again) and I have not used proteins for a while. Though, I have recently bought a conditioner with proteins to try again... How did you find out that you had a protein build-up?


Ever try an SMT (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=128)? I'm not a curly, but it's definitely one of my favorite moisture treatments. Just be sure you rinse it fully -- unlike just conditioner, this stuff's pretty sticky as it dries.

Do you leave any conditioner in your hair after washing to help define your curls? That might help you out too. You might also want to check out Tightly Curly (http://www.tightlycurly.com/welcome) and/or read the Curly Girl book if you haven't yet. Both will probably give you some ideas that are particularly targeted to your texture.

Honey made my hair very dry and hay-ish, and I have never tried aloe-vera though.. Maybe I should buy some and try, for now I use glycerol to keep the moisture stay in my hair. Thank you for the tips about the websites, I'll check them out.


My hair was so dry & tangly it was like velcou. What helped my hair was to shampoo with a clarifiny shampoo (I used Suave) left it on 3 min. Rinsed Then I put a Pantene Pro V Restoratives Time Renewal cond. on it. Put it especially on the ends & leave it on for 3 min.

It has cones in it - which I have found out my hair LOVES! I tried the no cones route & my hair HATED it. It was SO DRY and tangly & felt like brittle hay.

Good luck!

Thank you for the tip, but I have decided not to use silicones. My hair, of course, looks nicer with cones, but I don't feel like washing with shampoo every time and besides, don't cones just hide the damage? I dream of naturally, smooth, long beautiful hair... :crush:

[jesis]

I agree with the SMT and also with getting rid of the buildup. That did wonders for my hair (which would look like yours if it weren't for these things.) I also do a weekly/biweekly s&d, which really helps with my split ends.

ETA: Honey is the BEST thing for curly hair, IMO. Use 1 TPSP Honey + 1 TBSP EVOO, heat up for 5 seconds, put on dry hair. Rinse out with shampoo and conditioner. You will be amazed at the results.

[pariate]

Hmmmm. Looks and sounds like a dryness issue, which is perhaps why the vinegar rinse didn't seem to do anything. Have you considered switching to a different cleansing method? Or changing your CO conditioner?

I'm not as curly as you, I'm only 2c/3a, but for what it's worth I'm having very good experiences with the oil shampoo method. I've seen it written here that curlies seem to have a harder time finding the "sweet spot" with that method.

Have you considered trying herbal rinses after you wash with CO? Catnip seems to get rave reviews for softness and increased manageability.

ETA: My experience with build-up is limited, since I too am cone-free, which is probably why I immediately thought that your problem would be related to dryness rather than buildup ;)

[sibiryachka]

In case you haven't seen these articles:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=44
(to help diagnose what your hair needs)

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=194
(to help determine what kind of buildup you might be experiencing, and what to do about it)

I suspect you've got some buildup - worth a look, anyway.

[FluffSpider]

I noticed it looked brittle and dull, even if I took great care of it. It had no body, hung around lifeless yet frizzy, and I could leave the protein deep treatments all I liked, it still looked horrid. I think your hair only NEEDS protein when you chemically dye it, heat style it often or do other such things. For well-kept hair, I don't think more than one protein treatment a month is necessary-a light one, at that.

I suggest you maintain the ACV rinses, if your hair likes them. Also, if you have any boring non-protein conditioner around, mix half a bottle of the stuff with 3 tbsp of EVOO and the rest of the bottle with water. Shake it, and you have a foamy-ish but very powerfully moisturising conditioner. Don't expect it to work overnight, but you should see significant improvement.

Regarding your cone usage: Cones can help protect hair too. If your hair is moisturised, it locks the moisture in, and makes it more resistant to heat or rubbing -you can use cones when you find your hair looks great, and just maintain that state more easily with their help. :p My head loves cones, so I'm biased.

[CurlAhead]

Thank you everyone, I am so glad I am a member here. :cheese:
Okay, as I've understand it, it may be a lack of moisture or a mineral build-up? The thing I am wondering about is
1. I don't have a shampoo for at the moment (I am the only on using the CO only method in my family, so all the other shampoo's contains silicones), but I found a soap (lol :p) which contains the following:


Aqua, Sodium Laureth Sulfate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Sodium Chloride, Cocamide DEA, Glycerin, Parfum, Citrid Acid, Limonene, 2-Bromo-2-Nitropropane-1,3-Diol, Linalool

Will this be enough to remove any build ups, including the mineral buildup (If that is what I have in my hair)

2. How do I add moisture to my hair? I thought I was doing that when I, after every shower sprayed on some glycerol mixed with water and some conditioner. Though I have only been doing this about 2-3 weeks, but still? :hmm:

[pariate]

2. How do I add moisture to my hair? I thought I was doing that when I, after every shower sprayed on some glycerol mixed with water and some conditioner. Though I have only been doing this about 2-3 weeks, but still? :hmm:

Have you ever tried oiling your hair when it is damp or dry?

[kitschy]

I think your texture is very similar to mine. Do you plop? Do you touch or manipulate your hair while it is damp?

It sounds like you are doing everything to properly moisturize, perhaps your hair isn't dry at all. It looks like your curl pattern might be getting interrupted.

[Photokissa]

Have you ever tried oiling your hair when it is damp or dry?

I was wondering this too. Oil works VERY well on my curls, but it seems to work a ton better when I oil dry hair.

On the ACV rinse...I just did my first ever rinse last night and my hair is fuzzy today, but it does feel very clean. I see myself only doing about one of these per month.

I think you hair just needs some more heavy moisture...I've been doing olive oil treatments where I warm the oil and wrap my head in saran wrap and a towel and leave it on for as long as I can stand it, then wash out. Works nicely for me.

[CurlAhead]

Have you ever tried oiling your hair when it is damp or dry?

Yep.. :D I think there must be something wrong with my hair, and I mean like seriously wrong! :p


I think your texture is very similar to mine. Do you plop? Do you touch or manipulate your hair while it is damp?

It sounds like you are doing everything to properly moisturize, perhaps your hair isn't dry at all. It looks like your curl pattern might be getting interrupted.

I don't plop, because my hair is quite short and I don't think I fit in so curly hair.. (The shorter my hair is, the "tighter" the curls are, the shortest curls are even type 4)
Before I took those pictures in the first post, I had not touched my hair while letting it dry on its own.

Hmm, that was interesting.. What do you mean by it getting interrupted?
(Btw, your curls are lovely, wish mine could cooperate with me..)


I was wondering this too. Oil works VERY well on my curls, but it seems to work a ton better when I oil dry hair.

On the ACV rinse...I just did my first ever rinse last night and my hair is fuzzy today, but it does feel very clean. I see myself only doing about one of these per month.

I think you hair just needs some more heavy moisture...I've been doing olive oil treatments where I warm the oil and wrap my head in saran wrap and a towel and leave it on for as long as I can stand it, then wash out. Works nicely for me.

I find that the oil soaks up easier when I put in on my dry ends, but it doesn't do much about the dryness though, I wonder where the oil goes?? :p

[Photokissa]

I find that the oil soaks up easier when I put in on my dry ends, but it doesn't do much about the dryness though, I wonder where the oil goes?? :p

That is so weird! I wonder where it goes:) Do you color your hair or heat style or anything?

[kitschy]

I don't plop, because my hair is quite short and I don't think I fit in so curly hair.. (The shorter my hair is, the "tighter" the curls are, the shortest curls are even type 4)
Before I took those pictures in the first post, I had not touched my hair while letting it dry on its own.

Hmm, that was interesting.. What do you mean by it getting interrupted?





This is what my hair looked like before I started co washing, plopping and using gel to hold the curls.

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/29/l_7cd432507ce04427b585dd5f32fa3b50.jpg

Everyone always thought my hair was damaged and very dry. In actuality my hair was frizzing because I never gave it a chance to properly form its true curl pattern. I was always touching it and manipulating it whether wet or dry. Curls need a chance to form, then dry in their pattern, or they will frizz and look dry.

[Photokissa]

Kitschy...You are right with the curl needing time to form. If I touch my hair while it's drying it goes into super frizz mode and it ends up in a bun. My mother used to brush my hair twice a day and wonder why it was frizzy. lol. She obviously has straight hair:)

[krissykins]

I was actually going to suggest a hair styling gel, but I feel kitschy made a better argument for that than I could've. I agree with the curls not being able to form, especially if your hair isn't reacting to much else.

[CurlAhead]

That is so weird! I wonder where it goes:) Do you color your hair or heat style or anything?

I have colored my hair twice in.... 6-7 years? And I started using heat styling about 2 years ago, but I stopped november/december last year... Haha, I think we have a mystery here!! :D


This is what my hair looked like before I started co washing, plopping and using gel to hold the curls.

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/29/l_7cd432507ce04427b585dd5f32fa3b50.jpg

Everyone always thought my hair was damaged and very dry. In actuality my hair was frizzing because I never gave it a chance to properly form its true curl pattern. I was always touching it and manipulating it whether wet or dry. Curls need a chance to form, then dry in their pattern, or they will frizz and look dry.

Hmm, yeah, that it pretty much how much hair looks now... Since I am CO washing, I probably need to style it in a "right way".. And maybe plop it...
Do you have a special routine for your hair atm?
However, my hair gets split ends. Almost everywhere, even though as I mentioned it wasn't that long ago I had a little trim... :shrug:


Kitschy...You are right with the curl needing time to form. If I touch my hair while it's drying it goes into super frizz mode and it ends up in a bun. My mother used to brush my hair twice a day and wonder why it was frizzy. lol. She obviously has straight hair:)


I was actually going to suggest a hair styling gel, but I feel kitschy made a better argument for that than I could've. I agree with the curls not being able to form, especially if your hair isn't reacting to much else.


Not touching my hair is not enough, but I will try with some sort of styling gel.


If the soap I wrote about is approved to wash away all sort of build-ups, I think I will do that.. I have also ordered the "Weekly Deep Conditioner" from Jessicurl, to help my hair get moisturised. And, I just ordered a pillow case in silk. And if I'm able to, I will order cassia with nourishing ... stuff?? in it. Hopefully, it will do at least something for my hair.

[lacefrost]

I would say, definitely do what other people are saying but I'm totally seconding kitschy here. I don't really think it's what you're doing but how you're doing it. Handling damages hair worse than anything (outside of chemicals, heat) especially curly hair. How are you detangling? Hopefully with a wide toothed comb while your hair is sopping with conditioner. How often are you touching your hair? Hopefully not often. And if your hair is really acting up, I would even go so far as to put your hair in braid or a rope braid when it's freshly detangled and super wet and then put it in a bun. That way the moisture is locked inside and your hair can't get tangled at all or frizzy at all.

[CurlAhead]

I would say, definitely do what other people are saying but I'm totally seconding kitschy here. I don't really think it's what you're doing but how you're doing it. Handling damages hair worse than anything (outside of chemicals, heat) especially curly hair. How are you detangling? Hopefully with a wide toothed comb while your hair is sopping with conditioner. How often are you touching your hair? Hopefully not often. And if your hair is really acting up, I would even go so far as to put your hair in braid or a rope braid when it's freshly detangled and super wet and then put it in a bun. That way the moisture is locked inside and your hair can't get tangled at all or frizzy at all.

Since I started using conditioner to was my hair, I usually detangle with my fingers when I am in the shower, and sometimes when it is still wet. I touch my hair a lot, but yesterday I didn't touch it before it was dry. My hair has too many layers though, so I would have to have several braids..

However, I used the soap I wrote about earlier to wash my hair with (and did not use any other products) and I am now waiting for my hair to dry. Have not touched it yet but I had to detangle it with my fingers AND use a brush in the shower, it took me about 1 hour to detangle it!!! :knitfrog: But hopefully I won't have to do this very often...

[kitschy]

Since I started using conditioner to was my hair, I usually detangle with my fingers when I am in the shower, and sometimes when it is still wet. I touch my hair a lot, but yesterday I didn't touch it before it was dry. My hair has too many layers though, so I would have to have several braids..




Braids? Braids disturb the curl pattern. When are you doing your braids?

[CurlAhead]

Braids? Braids disturb the curl pattern. When are you doing your braids?

I sometimes braid the hair before I go to sleep, to get flatter hair since I don't use heat anymore. :)

[kitschy]

I sometimes braid the hair before I go to sleep, to get flatter hair since I don't use heat anymore. :)
Is it wet or damp when you braid? Or is it completely dry.

[CurlAhead]

Is it wet or damp when you braid? Or is it completely dry.

It's mostly often damp... Is this damaging for my hair? :hmm:

[kitschy]

It's mostly often damp... Is this damaging for my hair? :hmm:
Braiding it certainly doesn't damage your hair, and like I said, it is possible that your hair isn't damaged at all. Braiding, just like running your fingers through your hair, manipulates your naturally curly pattern. Most often, the reason curlies do these things like brushing, braiding, or pulling on hair, is because we don't accept our natural curls and want a looser curl pattern. These practices (like your braiding) can make our curl pattern look fuzzy, dry and damaged.

Have you ever visited naturallycurly.com or the "wurly and curly" thread on this site? You'll find a lot of valuable insights about your curly hair there.

This is my routine: I CO wash about 3 times per week with VO5 or Suave. I use GVP Biolage balm as a leave in conditioner (about a tablespoon). Sometimes I add a drop of coconut or sweet almond oil and a drop of honey to my leave-in. Over the leave-in conditioner, I scrunch in either LA Looks Sport Gel or Eco-Styler Gel to my wet hair, and plop or put it up in a light terrycloth turban for about 20 minutes. After that, I shake down my hair lightly and clip back the hair at my temples and front and leave for another 20 minutes - then I try to ignore my hair until it is completely dry. After it is dry, I fluff the roots only to hide any scalp that might be showing, and I scrunch out the crunch (if any) from the gel. That's basically it.

You might want to try a method similar to this and see if your hair forms clumps of curls, thereby eliminating frizz.

By the way, I like your hair. I like the color and curl. ....and remember, curly hair doesn't shine and reflect light the way that smooth straight hair does. If you embrace the hair that nature gave you, you will be surprised how healthy it will look.

[lacefrost]

Curlahead, so you know, I'm only suggesting braids to help the health of your hair (because you mention it feels like hay, is very dry, has splits etc) as braiding your hair and putting it up keeps you from touching it & it rubbing against things. It also keeps it damp (and therefore moisturized.) If you're more looking to have your hair sit in pretty curls like it wants to, definitely do what kitschy says. Her hair is awesome.

[kitschy]

lacefrost - braids are very pretty too. Your twists are gorgeous!

[CurlAhead]

Braiding it certainly doesn't damage your hair, and like I said, it is possible that your hair isn't damaged at all. Braiding, just like running your fingers through your hair, manipulates your naturally curly pattern. Most often, the reason curlies do these things like brushing, braiding, or pulling on hair, is because we don't accept our natural curls and want a looser curl pattern. These practices (like your braiding) can make our curl pattern look fuzzy, dry and damaged.

Have you ever visited naturallycurly.com or the "wurly and curly" thread on this site? You'll find a lot of valuable insights about your curly hair there.

This is my routine: I CO wash about 3 times per week with VO5 or Suave. I use GVP Biolage balm as a leave in conditioner (about a tablespoon). Sometimes I add a drop of coconut or sweet almond oil and a drop of honey to my leave-in. Over the leave-in conditioner, I scrunch in either LA Looks Sport Gel or Eco-Styler Gel to my wet hair, and plop or put it up in a light terrycloth turban for about 20 minutes. After that, I shake down my hair lightly and clip back the hair at my temples and front and leave for another 20 minutes - then I try to ignore my hair until it is completely dry. After it is dry, I fluff the roots only to hide any scalp that might be showing, and I scrunch out the crunch (if any) from the gel. That's basically it.

You might want to try a method similar to this and see if your hair forms clumps of curls, thereby eliminating frizz.

By the way, I like your hair. I like the color and curl. ....and remember, curly hair doesn't shine and reflect light the way that smooth straight hair does. If you embrace the hair that nature gave you, you will be surprised how healthy it will look.

Yeah, I know brushing my hair is not that good for my hair, it looks like cotton candy if I do! :p Thank you for sharing your routine, maybe I'll try something like that, yes.

However, thank you so much! It makes it feel a little better being stuck with this hay-stack I call hair.. :)

If I straighten my hair with heat (w/o using silicones or anything like that) will it shine? Or is it just so that curly hair just doesn't shine whether it is curly or straightened?


Curlahead, so you know, I'm only suggesting braids to help the health of your hair (because you mention it feels like hay, is very dry, has splits etc) as braiding your hair and putting it up keeps you from touching it & it rubbing against things. It also keeps it damp (and therefore moisturized.) If you're more looking to have your hair sit in pretty curls like it wants to, definitely do what kitschy says. Her hair is awesome.

If I put it up in a braid it takes very long time for it to dry, should I keep it in a braid for just some hours or wait for it to completely dry on its own in the braid?

Thank you both for all the tips!! :-)

[sweet&sourkiwi]

Okay, chelating! It just means to remove metals and minerals from the hair, that build up if you have mineral-rich water. (If you have a water softener then you don't have mineraly-y water. If you have residue in your shower/walls from the water then you have very minerally water!)

It is a special shampoo and it is harsh...but one use usually does the trick, and if that fixes things, then you can do club soda rinses to continue to combat the problem. Chelating shampoos are marked as such, and are often marketed to swimmers for removing chemicals (like chlorine) that end up in hair after using public pools.

It made a difference to me, it could help you! But I have to warn it is a pretty drying process. Follow with the deepest conditioner you can get.

I hesitated to recommend a conditioner because I don't know what you can get outside of the States! (I would recommend Garnier Triple Nutrition, though, if you can get it.) It sounds like you've explored this route, though. Part of what makes the Garnier work is the oils...

Good luck, this sounds very trying but I bet you will figure it out! :)

[jesis]

Have you tried clarifying and then doing a deep SMT using honey and EVOO? Argan oil works really well for my curls, I put it in my hair, along with my curling cream, as soon as I get out of the shower. I use Rusk's Argan Oil because it has many different natural oils in it, but it does have cones. Cream because gel dries out my hair and the cream I use has sunflower oil in it. I also use shampoo and conditioner with shea butter in it.

S&D's are a must when you have fragile hair, because if you don't get rid of the split/damaged end, you could cause more damage to your hair.

The thing that has really made me go WOW lately is Lush's henna. It has cocoa butter in it and it has made my hair strong, moisturized, and happy.

The thing curly hair needs is moisture, but you have to be careful that you aren't over moisturizing and that you are getting rid of build-up.

Hope I helped.

[Anje]

Your soap (the ingredients looked like shampoo to me) has an ingredients list that looks like it should be sufficient for clarifying. So I'd say you're clarified and shouldn't have to worry about buildup (other than perhaps protein, primarily because it's so very drying when built up) being a problem at this point.

Seriously, try something from that Tightlycurly website.... Put a load of conditioner in your hair and leave it in. Carefully comb it out while loaded with conditioner, separate the curls a bit, and let it airdry without braiding it or anything else until it's actually dry. I think that'll do a lot for getting your hair moisturized and your curls separated and clumpy.

[CurlAhead]

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