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Arya
January 15th, 2011, 04:52 PM
I've been here about a month and a half and my hair is just getting wooorse! I think it's mostly due to the dry winter air. It seems to make my hair greasier and drier at the same time!!

I started a thread about my hair when I first got here, and I got some really lovely advice.

MissManda suggested I try CWC and coconut oil and hair scroos! (all things I've been using!!)
luxePiggy suggested CO and oiling the ends
Juneii suggested clarifying conditioner every time and oiling the length and maybe going cone free
Shockinglength seconded CO
Intransgentia thirded CO
ddiana1979 seconded CWC
and anaJamila fourthed CO!


Since then, I've been using Herbal Essences hello hydration. I tried CO at first with it, but it really seemed to weigh my hair down. I'd like to try it again, but I don't think this shampoo will work with CO, it seems to heavy for my hair. I've been CWCing with it since then, which hasn't seemed to make much difference from my regular routine. I've also been oiling it with expeller pressed (no coconut scent) organic coconut oil, which also seems to help my hair...until...

The last three days my hair has been SUPER GREASY on top and so tangly underneath. I'm noticing split ends like I've never seen before. SUPER splits along the midlength. I'm pretty sure I have to cut my hair to save the longest layer. Parts of it are really frizzy, and it just doesn't feel healthy.
I put up some pictures in my album (so embarrassing) because I can't figure out how to post pictures here.
I'm on my way to the grocery store to pick up some new shampoo and conditioner, because I'm out. I think I'll get some clarifying conditioner, and do the clarifying diagnosis thing suggested here

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=44

but I'm open to any suggestions as to what conditioners might be good to try COing again. I live in Canada so brands might be a little different. I also bought some ACV which I might give a try.

So, I'm getting pretty desperate. I'm pretty sad I'm back where I was over a month ago. I'm thinking the damage needs to be cut out. What do you think? ;V__V;

Messyhair
January 15th, 2011, 04:58 PM
I'm a big fan of Pantene's moisturizing conditioners and I just slather it on the length like crazy. I don't use shampoo anywhere but on the hair that touches my head (think of making a ponytail... any hair that's not part of the tail, I shampoo) and then tends to keep the length from drying out, too.

Is there any way you can just snip out the damaged pieces with S&D?

Arya
January 15th, 2011, 05:07 PM
I'm a big fan of Pantene's moisturizing conditioners and I just slather it on the length like crazy. I don't use shampoo anywhere but on the hair that touches my head (think of making a ponytail... any hair that's not part of the tail, I shampoo) and then tends to keep the length from drying out, too.

Is there any way you can just snip out the damaged pieces with S&D?


In the shower, I use warm water, condition below my ears, wash it out. Then I shampoo the hair on my head run a little cold water over my scalp (to try and get out extra sebum), then run it a little bit through the length (to rinse out old coconut oil), rinse. Then I condition from the ears down, and leave it in while I do the rest of my showering, then rinse it out with warm water, and finish with cold.

I have been S&Ding obsessively, but I'm thinking that the bottom layer is just becoming too thin and has too many different lengths in it that tangle it up.
I can't keep up with the midshaft splitting. I use really sharp scissors, but it's driving me kinda crazy.

Messyhair
January 15th, 2011, 05:23 PM
Eek, how long is your hair now? Mine got thin on the ends from S&Ds when it was around hip/tailbone.

Your routine sounds fine to me. I do something similar, except I condition the length and leave it in when I add shampoo to the scalp. Then I wash my body before rinsing everything out. I have noticed that the shampoo that I use really matters - when I use sulfate-free shampoo I have less next-day greasies. I can't use any translucent shampoos at all or my scalp revolts, so I stick to creamy ones.

I don't know why you'd suddenly be getting tangles. I don't even clarify and mine stays tangle-free. Maybe you clarify too much?? Maybe I'm getting desperate for answers...

Arya
January 15th, 2011, 05:32 PM
Eek, how long is your hair now? Mine got thin on the ends from S&Ds when it was around hip/tailbone.

Your routine sounds fine to me. I do something similar, except I condition the length and leave it in when I add shampoo to the scalp. Then I wash my body before rinsing everything out. I have noticed that the shampoo that I use really matters - when I use sulfate-free shampoo I have less next-day greasies. I can't use any translucent shampoos at all or my scalp revolts, so I stick to creamy ones.

I don't know why you'd suddenly be getting tangles. I don't even clarify and mine stays tangle-free. Maybe you clarify too much?? Maybe I'm getting desperate for answers...

My hair is layered and V shaped. The longest layer at the back is waist length, the shortest layer at the back is APL, and my bangs have grown out to chin length. I think my homestay mother damaged my hair last year in Japan using heat too high for my hair, and that could be the source of the problem, but it's all crappy and annoying at the moment.

I'm not sure what shampoos to get, I think switching around is the key. I'ma go and pick up some tresemme at Shoppers Drug Mart, I think it was on sale, and then go see what is cheap at Giant Tiger.

Messyhair
January 15th, 2011, 06:04 PM
Oh, I did just think of one thing that tangles my hair up at the nape - using a regular pillowcase. A satin pillowcase is a must for me.

Do you brush at all? That causes me all kinds of damage. So does any kind of heat, like you said.

Arya
January 15th, 2011, 06:11 PM
Oh, I did just think of one thing that tangles my hair up at the nape - using a regular pillowcase. A satin pillowcase is a must for me.

Do you brush at all? That causes me all kinds of damage. So does any kind of heat, like you said.

I don't have a satin pillowcase yet, (Haven't seen any silk-satin ones under $35) but I plan on making them soon.

I actually don't really brush my hair that much. I detangle, sometimes with a brush, sometimes with fingers before I shower, but that's about it. I wait till the towel has soaked up some water, and then whip my head around!---odd I know, but I find it's really gentle, and untangles my hair without breakage. Other than that it's mostly finger detangling.

Oh! I forgot that since I joined, I'll oil the longest layer, the nape of my neck and my ends with Coconut Oil when I get out of the shower.

dropinthebucket
January 16th, 2011, 05:00 AM
Hi Arya, I'm a 1b/1c girl, too - and my hair refuses to look good in the winter here in Canada, no matter what I do.

Luckily, I started my new hair care regime back last spring, so I could see the improvement and progress over the summer. Come winter, I have lank, piecy, static-filled hair and a greasier scalp, there just doesn't seem to be any help for it, no matter what. If I travel somewhere warmer on winter hols, though, boy, does my hair love that! So I know it is the climate and not the hair. I have never found anything to fix Winter Ugly Hair, except putting it up and waiting til spring. Or moving to a better climate! ;) I'll be watching this thread to see what helpful advice others have.

For a Canadian 'cone-free, SLS-free shampoo and conditioner line, try Live Clean - they're reasonably priced and easily available at Shoppers Drug Mart.

Gabriel
January 16th, 2011, 06:55 AM
Hi Arya! Winter can be a tough time of year for some long hairs.

I get really dry hair and this year lots of static. I forgot to get the humidifier out and my guy reminded me and that has been such a huge help in keeping my hair moisturized.

If you can I do highly suggest getting one for where you sleep and running it at night to see if that helps with the dryness. A sign one might be good for you is if your skin and eyes are really dry and if you nose is more prone to bleeding because of dryness.

The next thing I'd try would be to clarify to reset the hair and have be free of any buildup. Follow with a good conditioner.

My favorites are TRESemme Naturals Nourishing Moisture Conditioner and Sally Beauty's GVP Conditioning Balm.

Coconut oil works okay in my hair but I've found jojoba to work much better. You might want to look into some different oils for yourself.

Satin pillow case or sleep cap helped my hair so much! I am an active sleeper and toss and turn everywhere. These have really eliminated a lot of that type of wear and tear on my hair.

If you are having a hard time finding a pillowcase (Sally's online has some I think) you can find a sleep cap in most "ethnic" hair care sections of large stores.

These threads might have some good things for you to try as well, in case you haven't seen them yet. I've used Kimberlily's defrizz spray and constantly use a mister bottle filled with something or the other in this dryer weather. I've never done a Snowymoon's Moisture Treatment ( or I don't remember? ) though so I can't vouch for it's success but lots of folks like it.

The much-recommended SMT (Snowymoon's Moisture Treatment) (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=128&highlight=defrizz+spray)

Kimberlily's defrizz spray (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=277&highlight=defrizz+spray)

The new!! What's in your Mister Bottle Thread? (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=1064&highlight=defrizz+spray)

Lianna
January 16th, 2011, 07:04 AM
It seems to make my hair greasier and drier at the same time!!

That's how my hair feels when I have build-up. My hair builds up really fast, maybe you can't take that much conditioner from all this CWC and CO, it might just benefit from these processes from time to time like mine.

I suggest oil shampoo (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=57025) (coconut oil in shampoo, no conditioner). Hair dries faster, looks clean longer, it's moisturized too. :)

Nymph
January 16th, 2011, 07:30 AM
Have you looked at cones vs no cones and how your hair likes it?

I recently also had a problem with my hair, and I fixed it by just stopping to use so much product. I used only one conditioner (I do some sort of CO, but with only one) and I got lucky because first conditioner I hit, my hair loved it.

My hair also lightens when I spray on distilled water with some conditioner in it. I make a little bottle and when it feels a bit dry, I'll use that. It just leaves the hair a bit moist - and I find that when I oil it moist, the oil takes much more better. Now, people with curls would tend to get frizz from that, I guess, but being straight-haired you could try that.

Also, maybe it's time to switch oils? I can use both jojoba and coconut on my hair but I have to change once in a while.

For the greasy scalp, I will sometimes massage my scalp and try to spread the sebum on my hair, down to the rest of the length. It's not a miracle procedure but it can stall washing for a day or two.

IndigoAsh
January 16th, 2011, 08:21 AM
I have the dry/oily at the same time issue. I use California Baby(completely organic wash I buy for my babies) wash on the top and sides of my head, Nexxus Botanoil nourishing botanical shampoo on the nape of my neck hairs(Like when you pull your hair into a pony for a low pony tail) so it keeps the back of my scalp area grease free cause that's my main trouble spot for greasy hair, the CaliBaby wash cleans the grease out of the top of my scalp really well.
At the ends of my hair I use Pantene Moisture Renewal Conditioner.

Other than that, I was able to quite oiling my hair so often with this routine. I oil about once a month or so because of the dry winter weather, in the summer I don't oil at all because of the heat and my dark hair doesn't mix well.

Arya
January 16th, 2011, 08:19 PM
Hi Arya, I'm a 1b/1c girl, too - and my hair refuses to look good in the winter here in Canada, no matter what I do.

Luckily, I started my new hair care regime back last spring, so I could see the improvement and progress over the summer. Come winter, I have lank, piecy, static-filled hair and a greasier scalp, there just doesn't seem to be any help for it, no matter what. If I travel somewhere warmer on winter hols, though, boy, does my hair love that! So I know it is the climate and not the hair. I have never found anything to fix Winter Ugly Hair, except putting it up and waiting til spring. Or moving to a better climate! ;) I'll be watching this thread to see what helpful advice others have.

For a Canadian 'cone-free, SLS-free shampoo and conditioner line, try Live Clean - they're reasonably priced and easily available at Shoppers Drug Mart.

You know what's so crazy? That's the shampoo I bought when I said I was going out to buy some shampoo, before you posted!! hahaha. I got the ACV shampoo (after all the rave reviews on here, how could I not?) and the moisturizing conditioner. I just did the ACV shampoo, to see if I could diagnose what's wrong with my hair. To my surprise...it was kinda wurly without conditioner?? But of course, the curls melt over the course of the day, so I think I'm still firmly in the 1b mayybe 1c category.

Ya, that's exactly what my hair is like!! SO frustrating. Alright, I guess I'll have to learn updos..which I suck at. Maybe we can start a 'teach me how to do this updo' thread! haha.

Oh crap, I wanted to put up some pictures of my hair, but I can't figure out how to embed them in the thread? bah!

JuneBride
January 16th, 2011, 08:23 PM
CO with V05 vanilla mint tea...I am a 1b too and that works for me !

shockinglength
January 16th, 2011, 08:51 PM
Try a condiotner that is cone free, or try MSS.

brelj
January 16th, 2011, 09:03 PM
You have tried a lot in just 1 month, mabye a little to much....
Your hair has to get used to a product and to the way you use it. 2 weeks trying CO is to short to see really result. I am no fan of CO, but if you try something you have to stick to it for at least 2 weeks, but better 1 month.
The article of Ursula's Standard Newbie Advice is really good for getting started, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=39.

Arya
January 16th, 2011, 10:58 PM
Hi Arya! Winter can be a tough time of year for some long hairs.

I get really dry hair and this year lots of static. I forgot to get the humidifier out and my guy reminded me and that has been such a huge help in keeping my hair moisturized.

If you can I do highly suggest getting one for where you sleep and running it at night to see if that helps with the dryness. A sign one might be good for you is if your skin and eyes are really dry and if you nose is more prone to bleeding because of dryness.

The next thing I'd try would be to clarify to reset the hair and have be free of any buildup. Follow with a good conditioner.

My favorites are TRESemme Naturals Nourishing Moisture Conditioner and Sally Beauty's GVP Conditioning Balm.

Coconut oil works okay in my hair but I've found jojoba to work much better. You might want to look into some different oils for yourself.

Satin pillow case or sleep cap helped my hair so much! I am an active sleeper and toss and turn everywhere. These have really eliminated a lot of that type of wear and tear on my hair.

If you are having a hard time finding a pillowcase (Sally's online has some I think) you can find a sleep cap in most "ethnic" hair care sections of large stores.

These threads might have some good things for you to try as well, in case you haven't seen them yet. I've used Kimberlily's defrizz spray and constantly use a mister bottle filled with something or the other in this dryer weather. I've never done a Snowymoon's Moisture Treatment ( or I don't remember? ) though so I can't vouch for it's success but lots of folks like it.

The much-recommended SMT (Snowymoon's Moisture Treatment) (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=128&highlight=defrizz+spray)

Kimberlily's defrizz spray (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=277&highlight=defrizz+spray)

The new!! What's in your Mister Bottle Thread? (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=1064&highlight=defrizz+spray)

Thanks so much for your response! Ya, my hair is super staticy right now. I don't have a humidifier, but we live in a basement apartment, they're supposed to be damp, right? To make due, I'm drying our clothes out under my loft bed. Maybe that will help? I'll have to look at Sally's online for satin pillowcases..do you know if they're silk satin or polyester satin?
The defrizzing spray sounds like a good idea, does it work without making hair greasy? The one thing I don't like about shine/frizz sprays are that on my hair they look good for 10 minutes but then look like a grease pit.


That's how my hair feels when I have build-up. My hair builds up really fast, maybe you can't take that much conditioner from all this CWC and CO, it might just benefit from these processes from time to time like mine.

I suggest oil shampoo (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=57025) (coconut oil in shampoo, no conditioner). Hair dries faster, looks clean longer, it's moisturized too. :)

That might be it, too. My hair isn't actually so bad for not being conditioned. it's got tons of flyaways and tangly, but it's also really shiny. Hopefully this was the reset button for my annoying hair. I'll try adding that to my shampoo, a lot of people seem to swear by that method.


Have you looked at cones vs no cones and how your hair likes it?

I recently also had a problem with my hair, and I fixed it by just stopping to use so much product. I used only one conditioner (I do some sort of CO, but with only one) and I got lucky because first conditioner I hit, my hair loved it.

My hair also lightens when I spray on distilled water with some conditioner in it. I make a little bottle and when it feels a bit dry, I'll use that. It just leaves the hair a bit moist - and I find that when I oil it moist, the oil takes much more better. Now, people with curls would tend to get frizz from that, I guess, but being straight-haired you could try that.

Also, maybe it's time to switch oils? I can use both jojoba and coconut on my hair but I have to change once in a while.

For the greasy scalp, I will sometimes massage my scalp and try to spread the sebum on my hair, down to the rest of the length. It's not a miracle procedure but it can stall washing for a day or two.
That sounds interesting, I might have to start this misting business. I hear some people like almond oil, and it's only five bucks at the supermarket, so I might go try that. Have you tried almond oil at all?


I have the dry/oily at the same time issue. I use California Baby(completely organic wash I buy for my babies) wash on the top and sides of my head, Nexxus Botanoil nourishing botanical shampoo on the nape of my neck hairs(Like when you pull your hair into a pony for a low pony tail) so it keeps the back of my scalp area grease free cause that's my main trouble spot for greasy hair, the CaliBaby wash cleans the grease out of the top of my scalp really well.
At the ends of my hair I use Pantene Moisture Renewal Conditioner.

Other than that, I was able to quite oiling my hair so often with this routine. I oil about once a month or so because of the dry winter weather, in the summer I don't oil at all because of the heat and my dark hair doesn't mix well.

Ahh, you get a greasy nape? My skin is just the opposite! My nape is super tangly, dry and breaks easily.

Gabriel
January 17th, 2011, 07:48 AM
Thanks so much for your response! Ya, my hair is super staticy right now. I don't have a humidifier, but we live in a basement apartment, they're supposed to be damp, right? To make due, I'm drying our clothes out under my loft bed. Maybe that will help? I'll have to look at Sally's online for satin pillowcases..do you know if they're silk satin or polyester satin?

The defrizzing spray sounds like a good idea, does it work without making hair greasy? The one thing I don't like about shine/frizz sprays are that on my hair they look good for 10 minutes but then look like a grease pit.


Basements are usually damp so maybe that's one less problem to look at.

I'm not sure if the pillow cases or sleep cap at Sally's are silk or not. I'm pretty sure they aren't though simply based on the price but I could be wrong...

The defrizz spray is definitely different from commercial shine/frizz sprays. They (commercial sprays) usually contain silicones and other coating agents. Those usually make hair look nice but can easily weigh hair down and make it look greasy.

The Kimberlily defrizz spray is usually water, aloe gel and glycerin and oil and maybe a little conditioner. The good thing about it is that if your hair doesn't do good with any of the ingredients you can just leave it out. I usually only spray my length with it and run my hands over it and then pat what's left on my hands over my hair at my head.

Also it doesn't add any additional shine to my hair.

Eolan
January 17th, 2011, 09:42 AM
You and I have very similar hair types, and, it seems, similar problems. I can only tell you what works for me. I use a very mild schampoo once or twice a week. No sulfates, preferable. I switch between a V05 conditioner and ye old beloved Garnier Triple nutrition. No cones. When my hair is wet I put on a tiny bit of Panacea Hair Salve, a drop of jojoba oil or some clear aloe gel. In between washes I try to do as little as possible to my hair, just put it up, no messing about and touching it. I try not to wash more often, since that only makes it greasier. I still have some frizz, but I'm okay with it at the moment. If your scalp gets very greasy you could try a scalp wash. Look it up among the articles.

Good luck! I'm sure you'll figure it out.

Artsy
January 17th, 2011, 10:00 AM
I am also 1b and I used to have oily scalp and dry ends. I find that in Canada you need to have 2 routines, one for summer and a second one for winter. I was successfuly cone-free for summer. Now I have to include cones in winter to fight the same problem.
I want to second clarifying with a good clarifying shampoo, not conditioner. Clarifying once per week can help, and you might be able to continue to CO.
Also, someone suggested oil shampoo, which is amazing since you can make it as mild as suits you by making you own personalized formula. I am using oil shampoo every time on my whole length, followed by citric rinse and some cones in a leave in and that keeps the static at bay.
In summer I will go back to no cones. This time with oil shampoo without any conditioner. It should work, it worked until the temperatures went below 0

Intransigentia
January 17th, 2011, 10:08 AM
Looks like you've already gotten lots of good advice! I'm not surprised you didn't like the Hello Hydration for CO washing, I find it incredibly heavy and hard to rinse out thoroughly.

If you have time to experiment with the movie star shampoo, I would totally recommend it! The biggest benefit I've experienced so far: the temperature here has been in the -20-30Cs for weeks, and I have barely any static. What static I do get, goes away if I just smooth it down with my hand.

dropinthebucket
January 17th, 2011, 10:11 AM
Definitely! just as I got my summer routine down pat, the weather changed, and I've been trying to figure out what will work in winter. This is my first winter on LHC! Don't want to go back to 'cones, but nothing gives me slip without greasiness. My hair is either overoiled and stringy, or dry, frizzy and tangly, nothing in between. Winter hair sucks.

Arya
January 21st, 2011, 05:56 PM
Looks like you've already gotten lots of good advice! I'm not surprised you didn't like the Hello Hydration for CO washing, I find it incredibly heavy and hard to rinse out thoroughly.

If you have time to experiment with the movie star shampoo, I would totally recommend it! The biggest benefit I've experienced so far: the temperature here has been in the -20-30Cs for weeks, and I have barely any static. What static I do get, goes away if I just smooth it down with my hand.

Yeah, I think hello hydration is one of those 'switch up my routine for one wash' shampoos, as opposed to a staple.

I just wanted to say, this new live strong shampoo conditioner is amazing!! It's really fixed the greasy/dry ratio. It's really true, you totally have to change up your hair routine in winter. I think besides this shampoo, I'm not conditioning above my ears until right before I wash it off. Seems to be helping it from getting to greasy. My ends look shinier too. This stuff is awesome!

madeline_
January 21st, 2011, 06:02 PM
If you've only been here a month, I don't think your hair has gotten worse on such a short period, it's just that you notice things that hadn't bothered you before because you didn't have all that information that's knocking around here. I have that feeling too and I've been here for almost a year. I think my hair still looks as ratty as it did back then, but friends and photographs disagree. Keep faith!