3a+ who are using oil shampoo

[girlcat36]

If you have curly(3a and beyond)hair and are using oil shampoo post your methods, successes, and failures in this thread.
I am trying to track the curlies in the oil shampoo thread, but it is so huge I am getting lost.

Right now I am using Neutrogena Anti-Residue shampoo 1:1 with coconut oil.
I am leaving in VO5 Blackberry Sage Tea conditioner watered down by half as a light leave-in after washing.
I don't always oil shampoo my roots as they are getting flat since my hair is very fine.

I am digging the oil shampoo, but it seems clear that curlies are having a harder time with the method, so I thought if we grouped our results in one thread it might be easier to get to what works.

[fairy_ends_girl]

I am a 3a but I don't add oil to shampoo. I use my coconut oil before bed on dry hair and in morning after I wash and condition I put coconut oil in hair. I didn't think to add the oil to my shampoo..hmmm, gave me something new to try tomorrow :)

[girlcat36]

Check out this thread, fairy ends girl:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=57025

[TrudieCat]

I am not a curly but I am eagerly waiting to hear the reports on this thread! My waves are acting weird on oil shampoo and I'm trying to keep going to optimal just to see if everything will sort itself out. :/ I like the softness and the shine a LOT - and was never able to get these results with SC, CWC, Co, etc. - but my waves are super puffy and partially straightened in places and undefined all over, and unless things start calming down a little and my hair starts looking a little more like itself I might have to give up on this. :(

I'm currently using Prell with Spectrum VCO, having just switched from Neutrogena Anti-Residue w/the same oil.

ETA: I am also still getting tangles, despite having clarified several times with approved shampoos (Neutrogena, Prell). The loose spirals around my face and at the nape of my neck are where I'm getting tangles. These are the most curly parts of my hair.

[OperaTeacherMom]

:waving: I belong here!

I use 1:1 Nutiva coconut oil and Herbal Essences Drama Clean Refreshing, although I think I'm approaching saturation, so I think I need to cut back to 1 part coconut oil to 2 parts shampoo.

I finally figured out how to get my curls back this week, after a while of flat wurliness. The way I did this was:

1. Using a protein treatment (my hair craves protein). I did Nexxus Emergencee, which usually requires a deep conditioner after, but I decided to see what happened if I didn't deep condition, but instead clarified and oil shampooed. It worked wonderfully, not dry at all.

2. Not plopping, just flipping upside down and scrunching.

3. Spritzing a little water on my crown/roots as my hair dries. The oil shampoo makes my hair dry so fast, the curls don't seem to have time to form at the roots. Misting it with water once fixed the problem, and this is still far easier than any other routine I've had.

[Athena's Owl]

I've decided to give the oil shampoo method a try, because I was starting to get the itchies after years of CO washing, and it was time to try something different. I've only done one wash, with a shampoo that did have static reducing ingredients so it's not an optimal shampoo. I can't find prell in calgary so I'm probably going to have to get some through mail order.

I'm going to be doing a wash tonight - now that i've finished with all my housework and chores I can spend some time letting my hair dry.

[girlcat36]

OperaTeacherMom---I know you've spent quite a bit of time on the other thread experimenting, so I will be interested in your future reports. I'm going to check into Emergencee, although I'm not sure if my hair needs/likes protein.
Athena's Owl---I read your blog looking forward to your experiments!


So tonight's wash:
I did a full(length & roots) shampoo with Neutrogena to clarify, my length has been a little lank. Then I oil shampooed length only with 1:1 Neutrogena to Spectrum Unrefined coconut oil. I added a little watered down VO5 Blackberry Sage condish as a leave-in. No acid rinse.
Also---I washed my hair in cool-cold water.

The results:
Completely dry within 1.5 hours. Very little frizz. The curl formation could be better. I got great volume tonight(a big bonus for a thinnie). Definately wearable hair.

Next wash I will not shampoo the length before I oil shampoo, and maybe add just a bit more leave-in.

[fairy_ends_girl]

Okay, I tried the oil/shampoo method this morning and my hair looks and feels yucky now.
I used 1 tbsp coconut oil(softened in hand) and 1 tbsp Dermalogica shampoo..

There was no lather and as I was washing my hair it felt like Dr. Bronner's. Very sticky and yuck. I had to put some conditioner on my ends. I air dried my hair like always and it just does not look or feel good at all. I think the coconut oil works better on my hair when I apply to dry hair.

[Artsy]

I am not a curly but I am eagerly waiting to hear the reports on this thread! My waves are acting weird on oil shampoo and I'm trying to keep going to optimal just to see if everything will sort itself out. :/ I like the softness and the shine a LOT - and was never able to get these results with SC, CWC, Co, etc. - but my waves are super puffy and partially straightened in places and undefined all over, and unless things start calming down a little and my hair starts looking a little more like itself I might have to give up on this. :(

I'm currently using Prell with Spectrum VCO, having just switched from Neutrogena Anti-Residue w/the same oil.

ETA: I am also still getting tangles, despite having clarified several times with approved shampoos (Neutrogena, Prell). The loose spirals around my face and at the nape of my neck are where I'm getting tangles. These are the most curly parts of my hair.
I am not a curly, but I use oil shampoo and my ends are so fried from past damage I have to use conditioner on them. I have fond that if I use
oil shampoo + nothing else = perfect results for a while, ends are covered with white dots:(
oil shampoo + leave in condish = builds up very fast
oil shampoo + condish = split ends are dry, crunchy messy build-up
oil shampoo + coney condish on last 6" of my hair + acid rinse = my ends are soft and calm, the rest of the hair is not puffy.
I have tried rinsing out conditioner under the shower and then dunk a bucket of cold water + lemon juice/white vinegar. My shampoo is acidic, and theoretically I don't need an acid rinse. I do an acid rinse just because of the look of my hair after, and the brushing is much better.
I am using diluted Herbal Essences Body Envy and Drama Clean, I believe those are acidic. I use Neutrogena Anti-Residue sometimes, just because someone gave it to me, it's good, I don't know it's ph.


Okay, I tried the oil/shampoo method this morning and my hair looks and feels yucky now.
I used 1 tbsp coconut oil(softened in hand) and 1 tbsp Dermalogica shampoo..

There was no lather and as I was washing my hair it felt like Dr. Bronner's. Very sticky and yuck. I had to put some conditioner on my ends. I air dried my hair like always and it just does not look or feel good at all. I think the coconut oil works better on my hair when I apply to dry hair.
You can't just get perfect results right away sometimes unfortunately.
You have to have the right shampoo, usually a basic clarifying clear in colour with minimum of herbs additives. It can help to do an acid rinse as in the original article. The conditioner is usually not needed for most people. I personally stopped using conditioner for a while, but had to go back because I am doing a year without trimming on over processed hair.
Oil shampoo works similar to the pre-wash oiling, if you look at Ktani's research. The reason I prefer oil shampoo is that I use less oil, it is a very quick method, hair dries faster:)

[OperaTeacherMom]

Okay, I tried the oil/shampoo method this morning and my hair looks and feels yucky now.
I used 1 tbsp coconut oil(softened in hand) and 1 tbsp Dermalogica shampoo..

There was no lather and as I was washing my hair it felt like Dr. Bronner's. Very sticky and yuck. I had to put some conditioner on my ends. I air dried my hair like always and it just does not look or feel good at all. I think the coconut oil works better on my hair when I apply to dry hair.

Coconut oil shampoo is veeeeeery picky about what ingredients it works well with, read ktani's article for more info. You also have to clarify COMPLETELY before trying it, otherwise you will get bad results. The best clarifyer I've found is the Neutrogena Anti Residue shampoo, used alone. I don't know much about the Dermalogica shampoo, but if it has a lot of ingredients, it may not be a good choice.

[Athena's Owl]

I added my washing report to my blog and also to the master thread. I got partial results, but I was getting rid of a questionable shampoo. the one I'm left with only has a couple of anti-static agents so not a lot of coating stuff.

it dried quickly but curl formation was not good. I will try it again, though, because it's winter and I can live with just putting my hair in a braid.

[Siava]

Thanks for starting this thread, girlcat. :)

[virgo75]

I keep forgetting to update in the original oil shampoo thread since it got moved. :o

I guess my post could be listed as a failure. :(

I was using a 1:1 or 2:1 dilution of shampoo:coconut oil.

At first I used it with conditioner but got buildup so I figured I'd clarify and try to use it without conditioner.

I clarified a couple of times and then used a basic clear shampoo mixed with coconut oil in the ratio already stated. I also tried 1 of the recommended shampoos.

At first my hair seemed happy for the most part - it was very soft. So soft it didn't hold any kind of shape or curl and very low on frizz. It would dry within an hour and was BIG and fluffy. I only used the coconut oil shampoo for about 2-3 weeks washing 2x per week with no conditioner. Big mistake.

I'm guessing I reached 'optimal' but my hair began breaking off from not using conditioner. Then my scalp started getting cystic acne from the coconut oil. When I tried to use conditioner I immediately got buildup even though my hair was dry and brittle. :shake:

For the past week to week & half I've been nursing my hair back to "normal" using regular shampoo & conditioner. My scalp has started to clear and my ends are slowing down on the breakage. I didn't change or do anything during this time period to cause breakage. If anything my hair should have been happier because I found the wonder of 'stick barretes' and so I haven't been using my scrunchies, ouchless rubberbands, or pantyhose elastics which could damage the ends.

Oh well. I need to learn to stick with what works for me = shampoo & conditioner. :shrug:

I hope it works better for others though. :)

[pelicano]

I'm not quite a 3a, but more like a 2c, and I'm thinking of giving up on this method after a couple of trials with different shampoos and different ratios.

My problem is similar to others, in that it often goes very soft but fluffy, which isn't a good look on me! I'm also finding it too difficult to find the right ratio of oil to shampoo - what works one time won't work the next etc.

I think I'm going to stick with my regular shampoo, conditioner and camellia oil.

[girlcat36]

Thanks for starting this thread, girlcat. :)

You're welcome!


And thank you everybody for your posts; successes and failures. I'm convinced 3a+ is 'special needs' as far as oil shampoo goes.

I had decent results with my last oil shampoo report, but second day hair was a little dry, with unformed curls.

[girlcat36]

I washed today with a 1:1 ratio of Neutrogena Anti-Residue shampoo to coconut oil, no acid rinse, and let air dry. It dried fluffy and ill-defined, so I added a little coconut oil to the length.
Here are the results:

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd63/girlcat36/LHC%20pictures/002-3.jpg


My 3a curls are flat and S shaped; I am trying to get the ringlets like I have in my siggy!
Not a complete failure, though, I guess. Drying time was good, but my hair didn't seem as shiny. I will try a 2:1 oil to shampoo ratio next time.
Still trying for the elusive Optimal Results!
Anybody having success? Any pics to share---failures welcome!

[OperaTeacherMom]

I'm still having great results! I'm convinced that it was the protein treatment that helped my curls bounce back into good form. Give it a try! I agree that curlies have a tougher time finding the perfect ratio, especially fine haired curlies!

ETA:
Pics from pre-protein treatment, with plopping (I discovered that plopping does NOT work with oil shampoo for me, in fact I have to mist my hair with water once while drying to get optimal curl)
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/hobbitcutie/921_0559.jpg

Pic immediately post protein treatment and oil shampoo (I did not do a DT after the PT), no plopping:
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/hobbitcutie/921_0573.jpg

[girlcat36]

Thanks, OTM! I have been off LHC for a few days and forget about the EmergenCee!
Your hair looks great---no fuzz!

[OperaTeacherMom]

Thanks, OTM! I have been off LHC for a few days and forget about the EmergenCee!
Your hair looks great---no fuzz!

Thanks! I just asked Ktani and the Emergencee definitely needs to be clarified off before an oil shampoo, so definitely keep that in mind. I am loving the no fuzz part, I think that is a combination of Henna and oil shampoo. I really think my individual hairs are thicker now than they were pre-henna.

[Shicurls]

:waving: Hi all! I am sure some of you have seen my various posts over there, but I wanted to put my results here too!

The method sorta worked for me? I mean I did get soft, frizz-free hair, but it was never as curly as other methods nor as shiny without simultaneously looking greasy. I had to quit it just recently because emotionally I can't handle "bad hair days". And, inevitably those days happen while experimenting. :shrug:

I first started the method with Johnson's Baby Shampoo and Body Wash and Nutiva in a 1:1 ratio. This last time (after really clarifying) I used Prell and Nutiva. I liked the Prell 1:1 ratio better. That being said, I'm now two washes away from the experiment (I went back to my Aubrey Organics S&C and B-5Gel) and I must say my hair feels and looks much more shiny and curly. I now have the hair I wanted while trying the oil shampoo.

For a few days (while on the oil shampoo method) I thought I needed a trim because my ends were tangling. Even just yesterday I was complaining of the tangles. Today was my second S&C and I no longer have any tangles. So, I think that I was not getting the moisture and protein that my hair needs. Which is strange because it seems to me that would be exactly what I would be getting with the oil shampoo method. At any rate, I learned that Coconut oiling before I shampoo does much more for my hair than it does in my shampoo.

I'm sorry I didn't have an entirely glowing report. I may end up going back and trying for the elusive "optimal level" when my health (I'm fighting Chronic Lyme Disease) and therefore my emotions are more stable. I hate crying over something like my hair!

[curlsgalore]

I'm atleast a 3a curly and have not yet tried this method. I cannot go without styling products in my hair or it will be a disaster and that's what has held me back. I believe I read that for better results (not sure if just at first) that any other product would interfere with the optimal results. I would love to try this out and probably will at some point just to see how it works. I've been trying to read the humongous thread but that will take me a while :). Thanks for starting this thread as I was curious as well as to how it worked for other curlies. Even though one does not use any products with "cones" do you still have to clarify?

[OperaTeacherMom]

:waving: Hi all! I am sure some of you have seen my various posts over there, but I wanted to put my results here too!

The method sorta worked for me? I mean I did get soft, frizz-free hair, but it was never as curly as other methods nor as shiny without simultaneously looking greasy. I had to quit it just recently because emotionally I can't handle "bad hair days". And, inevitably those days happen while experimenting. :shrug:

I first started the method with Johnson's Baby Shampoo and Body Wash and Nutiva in a 1:1 ratio. This last time (after really clarifying) I used Prell and Nutiva. I liked the Prell 1:1 ratio better. That being said, I'm now two washes away from the experiment (I went back to my Aubrey Organics S&C and B-5Gel) and I must say my hair feels and looks much more shiny and curly. I now have the hair I wanted while trying the oil shampoo.

For a few days (while on the oil shampoo method) I thought I needed a trim because my ends were tangling. Even just yesterday I was complaining of the tangles. Today was my second S&C and I no longer have any tangles. So, I think that I was not getting the moisture and protein that my hair needs. Which is strange because it seems to me that would be exactly what I would be getting with the oil shampoo method. At any rate, I learned that Coconut oiling before I shampoo does much more for my hair than it does in my shampoo.

I'm sorry I didn't have an entirely glowing report. I may end up going back and trying for the elusive "optimal level" when my health (I'm fighting Chronic Lyme Disease) and therefore my emotions are more stable. I hate crying over something like my hair!

It sounds like even though it didn't get you to "optimal", you still have Lauric Acid building up in your cortex, which is why shampoo and conditioner are working so much better for you now :) If your hair starts to misbehave on S&C, maybe you can clarify, oil shampoo for a few washes again, and see if it helps.


I'm atleast a 3a curly and have not yet tried this method. I cannot go without styling products in my hair or it will be a disaster and that's what has held me back. I believe I read that for better results (not sure if just at first) that any other product would interfere with the optimal results. I would love to try this out and probably will at some point just to see how it works. I've been trying to read the humongous thread but that will take me a while :). Thanks for starting this thread as I was curious as well as to how it worked for other curlies. Even though one does not use any products with "cones" do you still have to clarify?

Yup, even without cones you still have to clarify before starting. Waxes, polymers, things like that which are the basis of all conditioners, will build up on your hair in a different way than cones. Not usually a bad way, but for the purposes of oil shampoo ANY buildup keeps you from having optimal results. I agree that it was HARD to even think about not using conditioner or products, but once I really gave in to the experiment, I was so glad I did!

[Shicurls]

OperaTeacherMom that's exactly what I was thinking! I really adore coconut oil and I love what it does for my hair, and I am definitely not ruling out this method indefinitely! Your hair is beautiful and so is Girlcat36's hair. So, I will watch this thread with interest!

[pelicano]

I'm probably going to try again, with two different mixes for roots and length. Will probably be my last attempt at it though.

[Rini]

Hi :waving: I have posted this on the other thread, but I agree it's a great idea to kind of "off shoot" that huge thread so it's easier to read about just one aspect.

I tried the method for a while and eventually found a good shampoo for it: Pantene Clarifying (called something else here in Italy). I used a 1:1 ratio mostly and no condish or acid rinse. My hair was very soft and shiny, but I could not get any decent curls to form for the life of me!! Also, I started to have scalp itchies and pimples which I NEVER had before. So I stopped and returned to a dilute shampoo and cone-free condish. I still coconut oil the lengths before a wash though. I LOVE having my curls back :inlove:

I'm not ruling out this method either, but I'm going to wait until I return to Australia so I can try some other shampoos and also I'd like a bit more of my virgin hair to have grown in.

[redcelticcurls]

I was wondering how this would work on curly hair. I can't imagine the shampoos being all that beneficial to a curly cuticle, so I had wondered if loss of curl would happen.

[OperaTeacherMom]

I was wondering how this would work on curly hair. I can't imagine the shampoos being all that beneficial to a curly cuticle, so I had wondered if loss of curl would happen.

I only notice loss of curl when I'm doing something wrong :) The rest of the time it's actually much better than it was while co-washing (at least for Winter hair).

[redcelticcurls]

I only notice loss of curl when I'm doing something wrong :) The rest of the time it's actually much better than it was while co-washing (at least for Winter hair).

Aren't these sulfate shampoos though? I don't tolerate them well, and I really do not tolerate coconut oil, which is why I am not experimenting. I guess I just don't see how the oil is enough to combat the harshness of things like Prell.

[lascuba]

I'm atleast a 3a curly and have not yet tried this method. I cannot go without styling products in my hair or it will be a disaster and that's what has held me back. I believe I read that for better results (not sure if just at first) that any other product would interfere with the optimal results. I would love to try this out and probably will at some point just to see how it works. I've been trying to read the humongous thread but that will take me a while :). Thanks for starting this thread as I was curious as well as to how it worked for other curlies. Even though one does not use any products with "cones" do you still have to clarify?That's why I'm so hesitant to try it. I'd be (grudgingly) willing to go without styling product as part of the experiment, but I get the impression that for a lot of people using this method successfully their hair is too tangly or "grabby" when wet and they have to detangle once the hair is dry. That's not an option for me. And if that is the case, then I will have to use conditioner to detangle after the oil-shampoo, and that conditioner will have to be clarified out before oil-shampooing again? And isn't coconut oil a problem for protein-sensitive hair, which I definitely have?

I just want to see one picture of a 3b head of hair that's had success with this method.

[Athena's Owl]

Well, my head finally feels a bit itchy today, so I'm going to wash it. time to get the coconut oil out of the fridge...

[OperaTeacherMom]

Just thought I'd pop in and say I'm taking a break from oil shampoo as well. Even at "optimal" and almost at "saturation", I'm not getting great 2nd or 3rd day hair, which is important to me.

[girlcat36]

OTM---it's not having good second day hair that's really bugging me. I bought Prell today so I'll give that a try in a few days.

[OperaTeacherMom]

OTM---it's not having good second day hair that's really bugging me. I bought Prell today so I'll give that a try in a few days.

Yup, second day hair is definitely the big issue. I also noticed some split ends, but I think those are from all of the excess clarifying I've done while experimenting.

[TrudieCat]

I quit the Official Method but I am still using coconut oil mixed with shampoo. Then I follow with a soak in a generous amount of Suave conditioner that's rinsed out, and then I put some HE coney conditioner in as a leave-in. I did this last night and woke up to great waves! My hair is still very soft, I assume because some lauric acid has built up in the core(s?) of my hair(s?). I like my hair today - it feels like a softer version of my hair of old.

I have a completely unproven suspicion that a good clarifying shampoo mixed with coconut oil and applied generously to un-clarified hair might actually clean well enough to allow some small bit of the oil to penetrate the hair shaft.

Even if that doesn't happen, I am content right now to mix coconut oil and shampoo together just for the conditioning benefits.


Aren't these sulfate shampoos though? I don't tolerate them well, and I really do not tolerate coconut oil, which is why I am not experimenting. I guess I just don't see how the oil is enough to combat the harshness of things like Prell.

Re: Prell - I was shocked at how gentle the Prell ends up being in a 1:1 ratio with virgin coconut oil, which is how I've been using it. I'm going to keep using this shampoo because it really does remove build up remarkably well, and since the oil seems to mediate the drying-out effect I am quite happy with it now.

On its own, though, it turns my hair into a brittle nest of straw.

I think some people have had success using sulfate-free shampoos, but you are right in that it does seem like the big success stories do seem to involve sulfates.

[curlsgalore]

Thank you all for sharing your results. I've been doing prepoo oiling with either Coconut or EVOO oil with good results so I think I'll stick with this for now. I have mixed coconut oil with my deva low poo shampoo before and it seemed to work fine, although I only tried it once, before I read all the information about the mss method. This method seems to be great for a lot of people and that's great. I will be keeping up with this thread.

[Athena's Owl]

I think I need to find prell.

i did a wash last night, and my hair right now really feels like straw. I think I need to do this with prell - so I can be certain I'm getting a good clarifying *and* i'm using the hands down optimal shampoo for this. So I'm not giving up - I'm just going to go back to a coating method until I have the right stuff. I think that attempting this without the optimal shampoo just won't give me realistic results. but once I do have some prell I can give this a real shot with what is the best shampoo for the job.

[curlsgalore]

I'm going to see if I can find some Prell shampoo. Isn't it fairly inexpensive? It would be worth a shot. I actually tried this method with one of my shampoo bars, nice results although I didn't clarify first. I thought I read somewhere that someone uses shampoo bars with this method, am I correct?

[girlcat36]

I got the Prell! I found it at my local CVS.
I gave my hair a homemade protein treatment(yogurt and egg) for about 1/2 hour before shampooing. I used a 2:1 oil to Prell ratio, and shampooed my entire length. No acid rinse, but I finish with a cold water rinse.
I had some tangles rinsing out the Prell, and lost quite a bit more hair than usual with oil shampoo(65 hairs). These tangles may have been caused by the egg/yogurt mix.
I'll post pics when dry.

If this doesn't come out great, I will give it one more try with the Prell and no conditioner; then that's it---I'm back to some conditioner on my length after oil shampooing!

[Cupofmilk]

I am having issues. I used an optimal list shampoo. Once I did a baking soda wash I had amazing results for two times. Then my hair has been a hideous tangly mess. I went in to wash the third time - you dont' need to calrify - and did the oilshampoo and my hair has gone horrible.

[girlcat36]

Here are the results.
The first picture is about 95% dry. I had to spritz my hair with water about 5 times during the drying process to keep it from frizzing too badly.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd63/girlcat36/LHC%20pictures/016.jpg

The second picture is after spending an hour and a half on a wind-whipped beach:

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd63/girlcat36/LHC%20pictures/237.jpg


I was surprised my hair wasn't totally destroyed at the beach. Actually, I think the salt in the air at the beach made my hair slightly curlier

Anyway-----I'm not totally happy with the results, my curls are still flattened and fluffy.
The curls in my siggy picture are oil shampoo with just a little watered down VO5 conditioner. They look much nicer than what I am getting now.

I think that once curly hairs dries, it has trouble hanging on to the lauric acid due to more open cuticles. Just a hunch.
I will give this one more try, then back to conditioner!

I'd love to see pics from anyone, even if it's a failure.

[Athena's Owl]

I have low porosity according to the water test - I put a hair in a bowl of water, break the surface tension, and it won't sink. It just won't. and I find that the hem of my curly hair is down by my hips, indicating to me that the curl is stretched out.

I'm holding on further work with the oil shampoo until I get some prell.

[girlcat36]

Okay, I'm back to conditoner! I washed with a1:1 ratio Prell to coconut oil, and conditioned with watered down(by half) VO5 Blackberry Sage Tea as leave-in.
My hair was less poofy and fly-away. It seemed curlier and shinier, and less dry and better clumping, but maybe I'm reading too much into it??

The picture on the left is oil shampoo without conditioner, and on the right is with a small amount of watered down conditioner.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd63/girlcat36/LHC%20pictures/012-3-1-1-1.jpg


I'm going to clarify with baking soda my next wash, and contiue a 1:1 ratio and watered down conditioner and see how that goes.
The quest for Optimal Results is over for me.

[curlytm]

So I seem to be among the group of curlies that got 'meh' results.

I had some Neutrogena Anti-residue lying around, so I clarified with that twice (lather, rinse, repeat. Whoa. I'm a CO girl. I haven't done that in....years!). After that, I washed with a 1:1 oil:shampoo ratio. Once that was rinsed, my wet hair felt dreadful. It felt tangly and in serious need of moisture. So I used some Suave coconut conditioner. Once I was out and my hair was drying, I saw decent clumping and curl formation, but nothing spectacular, and definitely not as nice as my normal routine provides. So I scrunched in some gel and let it air dry.

The next day, my hair felt GORGEOUS. It was soft, voluminous, and it felt SO healthy from roots to ends. But it looked terrible. I have thick hair, so nothing really looked lank and stringy, but the curls BARELY curled and fell down in loose s-shaped piecy waves. Almost like skinny wavy dreads. It had NO shine.

This was so devastating, because it felt so marvelous! The next day was to be henna day, and as such, it is hypothesized that the resins in henna can prevent coconut oil penetration, so I decided not to waste the lovely oil and just stick to CO (that is, conditioner only, not coconut oil) washing for the next few washes.

I really want to give this method a try, and I'd LOVE LOVE LOVE to not need product in my hair afterwards. However, I'm highly skeptical as to whether that's possible for someone with thick curls. I haven't heard of a single result for someone with my hair type that is able to not use product or conditioner. We shall see! :)

[girlcat36]

I am skeptical too, Curlytm. I am waiting for a curly to show up with optimal results, and maybe I am missing something, but I haven't seen it in the big movie star thread either.

I really wanted a low maintenance routine, but to get halfway decent curl/waves I have to continually spritz my hair while drying. Which of course prolongs that 'quick dry' time, and is maintenance in itself--going to the mirror, checking for frizz, spraying and smoothing it......might as well just use conditioner!

[bumblebums]

I think you're right, girlcat. With conditioner looks like a better curly result.

[Athena's Owl]

one point that I was going to add

i'm a day late on my wash (I usually do it once a week) and so today I took my hair out of the braid it had been in for days, and got ready to gingerly fingercomb and then bone comb the inevitable braidmat...

and there *wasn't* one. a few tangles, sure, but they came out quickly and easily, which isn't like anything i've experienced before. so there's *something* going on with the oil shampoo in that regard.

when I get an optimal shampoo I will try the method again. because it feels good, and it dries fast, and it doesn't tangle nearly as much...and if I was regularly straightening my hair this would be a great method. but I really want the appearance of enviable curls.

[girlcat36]

I think you're right, girlcat. With conditioner looks like a better curly result.

I still don't have my moisturized ringlets back, but I think that's due to lack of conditioner for a few weeks, so hopefully that will resolve over time.

[girlcat36]

one point that I was going to add

i'm a day late on my wash (I usually do it once a week) and so today I took my hair out of the braid it had been in for days, and got ready to gingerly fingercomb and then bone comb the inevitable braidmat...

and there *wasn't* one. a few tangles, sure, but they came out quickly and easily, which isn't like anything i've experienced before. so there's *something* going on with the oil shampoo in that regard.

when I get an optimal shampoo I will try the method again. because it feels good, and it dries fast, and it doesn't tangle nearly as much...and if I was regularly straightening my hair this would be a great method. but I really want the appearance of enviable curls.

Thare's definately something to it, but it's got to be a slightly different method for 3a+. My theory anyway.
And you do have enviable curls!

[OperaTeacherMom]

I agree with both of you, there is definitely something to this method, but it needs something added to it to make it work for curlies. If either of you figure out what that "something" is, let the rest of us know!

[jessie58]

Hey, I wish I knew about this thread before. Great idea for starting this.
I am totally with you on this one Girlcat. I have been convinced that there is something different about curlies and how they should use this method.
I am waiting on my Prell to arrive to start this on a regular basis. Right now I am not using any coconut oil.

[Chibbylick]

My hair is not as curly as you girls, but I am wondering why, instead of thinking about adding leave-in conditioner to your routine, you don't add more coconut oil as a leave in?

[jessie58]

My hair is not as curly as you girls, but I am wondering why, instead of thinking about adding leave-in conditioner to your routine, you don't add more coconut oil as a leave in?

I put a ton of coconut oil in mine and had decent results but I haven't used this method for a few weeks because I am waiting for Prell. I want to give it a good thorough testing with the optimum products.
Last time I used coconut oil, I used one part shampoo and 4 parts coconut oil. My hair drinks it up. However it made my hair frizzy.

[Athena's Owl]

My hair is not as curly as you girls, but I am wondering why, instead of thinking about adding leave-in conditioner to your routine, you don't add more coconut oil as a leave in?

Because it doesnt' work.

and when I say it doesn't work, what I mean is that I haven't seen the visual results that I define as "enivable curls." this means

Clumping - good curl conformity and a well-defined shape. each lock of hair is its own curl, ideally from root to tip.

frizz-free - good curls are good curls because the hairs from each lock are lying close together, with few hairs declaring their independence and setting off on an individuality asserting journey that we generally call flyaways or frizz - the dreaded frizz!

spring- curls have good visual energy in that they are compacting. I have s-wave curls that will spiral at the ends, and I expect that my hair - which is at tailbone when wet - will "spring" up to about waist length when dry and curly.

It's soft, it feels soft. it really isn't all that tangly. the shine level is ridiculous. but the appearance of the curls isn't the same effect I get from using coating ingredients to achieve enviable curls. there are many 2's who get great results but so far the 3s are having a trickier time of it just in this one area.

I'm not using Prell, and I really think I have to do this with prell to see what kind of results you can get.

[OperaTeacherMom]

Ok, well after going from this to co-washing, I'm still not happy, so I'm going to experiment with mixing the two. My initial thought is I'll start using Prell mixed with coconut oil, and follow it with a protein conditioner (my fine hair ADORES protein), and maybe a TINY bit of gel, figuring out how little I can use and still get my curls defined. If I totally hate it, I may see what happens if I use my Aubrey Organics shampoo rather than the prell. I'll let you ladies know how it goes! I won't be trying it for a couple days, since I will be using manic panic tonight :D

[Speedbump]

Speedy checking in! :eyebrows:

I have been doing this method for...gosh, has it been almost two months now? I just reached saturation the wash before last night's, so I feel like I'm just now getting to the point where I can start giving results that might mean something.

Let me issue a caveat or two, though: My hair is so long now that the curls are mostly pulled out by Day 2 no matter *what* method I'm using, so I won't be a gauge for long term, between-wash good effects on curl formation. Also, I only wash once a week (usually) so I won't be checking in more often than that.

Here is what I've been doing up to saturation:

Clarified with Neutragena Anti-Residue. I had to do it twice to get all the stuff off.

At first that is what I was using as my wash shampoo as well but it's really harsh and I hated the smell.

Now I use Prell as my shampoo, and until saturation I was using a 1:1 ratio with Tropical Traditions organic virgin coconut oil.

The most recent wash (last night): Because I had not only reached saturation but had far surpassed it, I washed early and used more shampoo than normal.

Wash mix 1: Straight Prell, about 1 tablespoon. Lathered up and got rid of the excess oil.

Wash mix 2: 1 tablespoon Prell to 1 1/2 teaspoons coconut oil.

Result: Pretty good. I had pretty solid curl formation, my hair has some shine and it's really soft. I haven't combed yet so I'm not sure about tangles, but they have been consistently less on this method. Also, my drying time was four hours, which is half of what it used to be with conditioner.

I may not be much help to those who have shorter hair they like to wear down. I just *don't* anymore except maybe twice a year for special occasions, so I'm kind of a different critter. :p

[jessie58]

Awesome report Speedy, thank you. I'm getting so irritated about waiting for my Prell to arrive. I feel that it will bring about the best results for this method and I don't want to use another shampoo for this purpose.

[MonaLisa65]

I'm a 3a/3b - F/M - ii/iii, and I have to say I can't TELL you how long it's been since my hair felt this good. All previous oil-shampoos are listed on my blog here (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/blog.php?b=84290).

Have any of you who are having trouble with this method, looked at the hardness of your water? My area's supply is moderately-hard, and once I started compensating for it (club soda pre-soaks to break up old deposits on my hair, distilled water rinses to prevent new buildup) my oil-shampoo results have been MUCH more consistent & satisfying.

[QueenMadge]

I am a 3a/b f/m

I use a 3 parts coconut oil to 1 part shampoo. I am using prell at the moment but will try something else later.

I did a clarifying wash with prell. I then used the blended oil/shampoo to wash from that point forward.

I started with lower concentrations of oil to shampoo but got really poofy soft fuzzy curls. Upping the oil helped with keeping the curls less frizzy and less fly away. I also used water to keep re-wetting the canopy and the ends. That gave better curl formation. I am not doing the re-wetting now though. I wash every three days or so and I use conditioner on the ends in-between. I do use a small amount of conditioner on the ends and the canopy as a leave in. My hair is much much softer now than pre oil shampooing with a lot less product in it. I am going to continue some version of this and try different shampoos as I use up the prell.

[girlcat36]

Speedy--thanks for checking in. I like to wear my hair down, so I'm really trying to get 2nd and 3rd day curls out of this method. So no conditioner at all?

MonaLisa--I'll check out your blog.

QueenMadge--still using conditioner? What kind?

[girlcat36]

My hair is not as curly as you girls, but I am wondering why, instead of thinking about adding leave-in conditioner to your routine, you don't add more coconut oil as a leave in?

This did not work well for me. I have added it to damp hair , and to oil shampooed hair that has fully dried. Neither way was a good look.

[QueenMadge]

Girlcat, I use whatever conditioner I have on hand. Today it was a Suave one. Ocean mist I think. It keeps the frizz down and helps with curl formation. I do also put extra coconut on my hair sometimes prior to washing. My hair likes it this way. If I use coconut by itself my hair does not like it so much.

[Rini]

QueenMadge: wouldn't using conditioner with this method necessitate clarifying again at the next wash? :confused:

[OperaTeacherMom]

QueenMadge: wouldn't using conditioner with this method necessitate clarifying again at the next wash? :confused:

Only if your goal is optimal/saturation. I asked ktani about this, and she said I won't get as much lauric acid building up in the cortex, but some is better than none!

[Rini]

ah....ok then. I think I understand that. It might be a good option for me then too as coconut oil shampoo method alone does not give me any good curl formation.

[QueenMadge]

I don't use a conditioner with cones in it. I also do not use a lot of it. I do clarify every 5 or so oil shampoos. I go by how my hair feels and looks. I cannot get good curls by itself until just before saturation and then I am clarifying anyway after that when my hair starts to look too oily. This is what works for me and as we all know our bodies/hair/etc. don't react the same to the same things;-).

[Speedbump]

Speedy--thanks for checking in. I like to wear my hair down, so I'm really trying to get 2nd and 3rd day curls out of this method. So no conditioner at all?

Correct! In fact, that was one of the main reasons why I decided to try oil shampoo. I really wanted to quit being on the Conditioner Roller Coaster. So many conditioners have junk in them my hair hates, and they reformulate the good ones seemingly all the darned time to make them bad. So I got fed up and was hoping to find *something* to get me off that ride.

So far, it seems oil shampoo is going to be "it." I'm having generally very decent to good results most of the time. But yes, I have very different goals for my hair than you do. I don't believe I would have stuck with the oil shampoo method if I still wore my hair down all the time like I did back in my early LHC days. It's hard to say, because I washed more frequently back then and I would have been much further along with the experiment.

Good luck and I hope that you find the right combo of product and technique to make this work for you the way you want it to. :cheese:

[OperaTeacherMom]

Just washed using my new method, and if it dries the same way it looks wet, I will be super happy! I did an ACV rinse, water rinse, clarified since I had used manic panic (which didn't really show up), used 1:1 prell:nutiva coconut oil, then used a nickel sized blob of conditioner, a dime sized blob of gel, and a couple drops of coconut oil mixed together as a leave in. Curl formation looks perfect when wet, if a little less voluminous than with oil shampoo alone. I'll give a full update when it's dry!

[QueenMadge]

Is anyone else noticing tiny splits in the ends of your hair after starting this? I am wondering if the tangling I was having in the beginning before adding conditioner back in was enough to cause that? I have had two hairdressers in the last four months tell me my hair looked great but I just found a bunch of tiny splits.....

[OperaTeacherMom]

Is anyone else noticing tiny splits in the ends of your hair after starting this? I am wondering if the tangling I was having in the beginning before adding conditioner back in was enough to cause that? I have had two hairdressers in the last four months tell me my hair looked great but I just found a bunch of tiny splits.....

I did notice a couple splits, but I also over-clarified a time or two, so I attribute my issues to that. My hair is quite split prone anyway.

As for me, my hair dried looking fantastic!!! After sleeping on it and re-scrunching with just water, curl formation is there, shine is there, haven't combed it but I'm guessing it's close to tangle free, the only thing that could even be slightly negative is that it's not as voluminous as it was with oil shampoo alone, but trading off a little volume for definition is just fine with me!

[girlcat36]

I would never have thought that my hair could be limp, stringy, frizzy, and oily all in one go.
But it is today after my oil shampoo!
Bah! I'll never get it right!

[Cupofmilk]

girlcat - Iam having similar issues. It's odd I had perfection a couple of times - my spirals were beautiful. And then after 2 or 3 attempts awful hair. SO I clarfied and started again - washes 1 and 2 excellent and then downhill. I am going to start using some conditioner again.

[girlcat36]

I think I am going to go with less oil, more conditioner. This is getting way too tricky for me!

[Rini]

I would never have thought that my hair could be limp, stringy, frizzy, and oily all in one go.
But it is today after my oil shampoo!
Bah! I'll never get it right!


Me too...I gave it another go (I just can't resist the pursuit of perfection!). My hair sucks right now. It is oily, frizzy, thin looking and the ends feel awful. I'm coating it in coconut oil and doing a conditioner only wash later today.

I'm going to have to give up on the moviestar shampoo....at least for a year or so :D

[girlcat36]

The Great Oil Shampoo Experiment is officially over.

I have been using oil shampoo for almost 4 months. At first I had great shine and nice ringlets. Over time, though, my 3a/b hair turned into 2b/c hair, which doesn't work for me.
I had a very hard time getting decent 2nd day hair with oil shampoo.

I tried many of the Optimal Results shampoos, with varying oil-shampoo ratios.
I was able to wean down from a thick, heavy moisturing conditioner to a watered-down, thin one. Shortened drying time was a bonus.

About 2 months into the experiment, I started to lose that blinding shine, as well as curl formation.

I was advised to mist my hair while drying to keep frizz from forming, and to get better curl formation. This helped somewhat, but never gave me great hair. Also, it increased drying time and caused me to continually chcek on my drying progress. So the bonus short drying time went out the window.

Before oil shampoo I was on a sulfate-free, cone free regime. While on oil shampoo I had a brief foray into the cone and sulfate filled world. My hair did not like it. The use of cones brought a return to 'bacne' that I had fought over the years and had disappeared when I gave up cones. Sulfate shampoos(when mixed with oil) seemed harsh on my hair.

Today I clarified with 2 TBS baking soda in 20 oz water, then shampooed my entire length with Neutrogena Anti-Residue shampoo. I combed VO5 Blackberry Sgae conditioner through, then rinsed with ACV. I then applied a leave-in of Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle Rose conditioner. My hair is drying, but looked promising while wet.

I learned somethings while using oil shampoo, so all is not lost.
~I definately don't like cones
~I have to watch out for shampoos heavy on the sulfates
~I learned that my some of my hairloss is probably due to shampoo choice! I am most likely allergic to quite a few shampoo ingredients. I should have known this---I have many environmental allergies, plus multiple food allergies. While I thought I was doing a good thing by using an organic botanical shampoo before oil-shampooing I was probably sensitive to the botanical ingredients!

Shampoos that caused more hairloss:
*Beauty Without Cruelty Daily Shampoo
*Redken Clear Moisture
*Prell Classic

Shampoos that caused FAR less hairfall in the shower:
*Dr. Bronners Lavender liquid castile soap
*Johnson's Baby Shampoo
*Johnson's Head-to-Toe Baby Wash
*Neutrogena Anti-Residue

I have dry, babyfine, thin 3a hair. I am a heavy shedder.
I need to use shampoo instead of CO for two reasons---scalp condition(tend to get fungal stuff on my scalp; prone to candida) and I need help with volumizing my hair. So the main thing I came away with from oil shampoo is that I need to be very careful in my shampoo selection, and in doing so, can minimize hairloss.

[Isadora Lewie]

girlcat, I'm also having the same trouble...

at first i was using aubrey organics honeysuckle rose shampoo, on a 1:1 ratio, which gave me nice results. As soon as i changed to one of the simple sulfate shampoos: dryness, splits, loss of curl, frizz, strings... you name it.

I tried sticking it out to get to the optimal, but its not worth all these side effects just to get that shine.

From the reports it seems that the method doesn't work well on damaged hair, so perhaps its an issue with porosity? Without a layer to seal the coconut oil/water into the hair shaft, my hair loses moisture too quickly and becomes frizzy, limp and dry.

I'm going back to my usual CWC with conditioner leave in routine for the moment. But who knows, perhaps I'll try the Aubrey Organics HSR / Oil shampoo again once my hair has regained some moisture.

[girlcat36]

I had good results from my return to traditional shampoo/conditioner. That is until I went out into the weather. :rolleyes:

I haven't had a good hair day in a while, here are the results:

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd63/girlcat36/LHC%20pictures/050-1.jpg

On the left is the results of my last oil shampoo, on the right are my results from today's clarifying, shampoo, and heavy leave-in conditioner. And that was after I was out in the yucky weather.

I think it's easy to see why I'm going to give up on the oil shampoo for a while. The picture speaks for itself.
I really, really wanted oil shampoo to work! I went without conditioner for about 3 weeks, my hair was properly clarified...I dunno, something was missing; I just couldn't get it to work.
Maybe I would have been happier with oil shampoo if I wore my hair up alot, but I stink at updos, and my hair is only BSL anyway so it doesn't get in the way when it's down.

I will continue to read this thread with interest for the rest of you curlies soldiering on with this!

[jessie58]

The results do speak for themselves. Gorgeous.

[OperaTeacherMom]

girlcat, it just looks like your hair likes conditioner more than oil shampoo! I still wonder if there's anything at all we can use as a leave in that wouldn't be coating or require clarifying out, but I'm not savvy enough to research it.

I'm trying out oil shampoo again, with ACV rinses and distilled water. This will probably be my last try too.

[Cailie]

two things, as a curly :


1) I have much more success with "oil + dilluted-runny-co" (unless my hair needs to be clarified - in which case nothing works)

2) don't forget that if it's winter where you live, coconut oil solidifies at 25 celcius ! Which means that hair might be a little stiff and not soft if it's under this temperature where you live !! I mostly use OLIVE oil in winter, for this reason ! ;)

[girlcat36]

Thank you, Jessie!

OTM-- good luck!

Cailie--- there may be something to that temperature thing. The coconut oil might be pulling out my curls in the colder temperatures.

[Rini]

The Great Oil Shampoo Experiment is officially over.

I have been using oil shampoo for almost 4 months. At first I had great shine and nice ringlets. Over time, though, my 3a/b hair turned into 2b/c hair, which doesn't work for me.
I had a very hard time getting decent 2nd day hair with oil shampoo.
........

I agree with you Girlcat on pretty much everything!! Especially the part I quoted. I do wear my hair up 90% of the time, however I still need the curls for it to look good in upstyles. I have short regrowth (from when I stopped dyeing) and I need that to curl in ringlets.....with oil shampoo it was sticking out straight and my hair was flat to my head with no body.

I just CO'ed and the ringlets are back. Loving it :inlove:

[Speedbump]

I just wanted to let everyone know that from now on, I'll be reporting my results in my blog (see sig for link). I've been having to actually search for my own results because the big oil shampoo thread is soooo huge. :lol: For my own organization and success, it's just better/easier for me to post in my blog. The first post will likely be either late tonight or tomorrow, since I'm getting ready to hit the shower now. :eyebrows:

[Rini]

Subscribed Speedy!! :D

I'm officially off the MS method. I'm just loving my curls right now (mostly all 3a today!!) and it's making it easier to grow out my silvers when my hair looks good overall :rolleyes:

It's great to try things though and to find out what will work for our own individual hair types!

[Debra83]

I've been experimenting too! I can be very curly or wavy depending what I do in the drying process.(see albums), but I've been trying the coconut oil shampoo with different shampoos, but I find I'm scared not to put in a conditioner after - I'm still using the Garnier Fructis Triple Nutrition (no cones) one. this pic was taken a few moments ago, after working all day and bowling for 3 hours - no brushing or combing after getting out of the shower this morning at all. It definitely looks a little wind blown and it's about -13 C I've been running around in today, but it is sooooo soft, and my shinies are definitely still there. Today, I used approx. the same amount of coconut oil to my 2 in 1 Johnson's baby shampoo, and then the conditioner. I'm still liking the feel of my hair, and that it dries quicker. A little concerned of the reports of more splits being noticed by some, so am keeping an eye on my ends closely.

February 07, 2011
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=6238&pictureid=95618

[pariate]

So glad this thread exists, I had the same problem as OP - wanted to find info about curlies and wurlies using this method and had a hell of a time trying to sift through the original thread...

So far I've had FANTASTIC results as far as the condition of my hair is concerned. My current shampoo choice is Garnier Fructis and it is messing with my curls. I have great curl definition for the first day after washing, but then they look a bit flat, clumpy and look dreadful if I try to comb, even finger comb. I wonder if this is something to do with the cones in the shampoo. It's been years since I used any cones and it's been years since anything had this effect on my wurls!

Think I'll wash again tonight (even though I'm not due to wash) and try a cone-free shampoo. I started the oil shampoo method using Nizoral shampoo to clear up a problem I was having with my scalp and that shampoo worked PERFECTLY, but it's medicated so can't be used over the long-term :rolleyes:

[pariate]

My hair is not as curly as you girls, but I am wondering why, instead of thinking about adding leave-in conditioner to your routine, you don't add more coconut oil as a leave in?

That's what I do if my hair is a little fluffy, dry or frizzy in between washes. Works fine for me. Maybe it's because we're not super-curly? I'm only 2c/3a...

[jessie58]

Pariate, I'm a 2c/3a too and am finding that this method is making my curls go away. I have conditioned hair and there is a lot less frizz but I can't keep my curls.

I just washed yesterday with a 3:1 ratio of oil to shampoo and my hair is not weighted, frizzy or oily or anything negative, just not very curly.

[SheaLynne]

I tried this method on my curly dd, and it was *not* a good choice for her. Her hair loves CO washing and olive oil as leave-in. I thought this might be a way for her to use coconut oil, but it completely made her ends dry and crunchy in a way I had never, ever seen before. It was better when it dried than when it was wet, but as others are mentioning here, she has better curls with CO, and it was still not a nice texture when dry.

btw, what we used on her was 1:1 coconut oil to Suave shampoo after clarifying with a baking soda rinse. We followed with a ACV rinse.

Since we have a method that works well for her, I'm not going to experiment around much with this for her. It worked great on my hair from the get-go, but I am barely wavy compared to her. I generally guestimate that she is probably around 3a curl.