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BlndeInDisguise
March 12th, 2008, 07:31 AM
I've been hearing a little about porosity and the porosity test, but I'm not all together sure how to do it. Could somebody please enlighten me? :)

Stagecoach
March 12th, 2008, 07:36 AM
I'm interested in this too!

atlantaz3
March 12th, 2008, 08:28 AM
http://www.verticalsinhair.com/test.shtml
Test the porosity of your hair. In order to test accurately for porosity, use three different areas: front hairline, in front of ears, and near the crown. Grasp small strands of dry hair and comb smoothly. Hold the ends firmly with the thumb and index finger of one hand and slide the fingers of the other hand from the ends towards the scalp. If the fingers do not slide easily, or if the hair ruffles up as your fingers slide down the stand, the hair is porous.

The more ruffles formed, the more porous is the hair. The less ruffles formed, the less porous is the hair. If the fingers slide easily and no ruffles are formed, the cuticle layer lays close to the hair shaft. This type of hair is least porous, is most resistant and will require a longer processing time

HTH

ilovelonghair
March 12th, 2008, 10:07 AM
Then my hair is super porous.... I think you can also do the test with single hairs that have fallen out. I can always tell wich is the direction of my hair because I can just feel it. It also makes a squeeky noise, that's probably a bad sign!

What can you do against porousness? Even the part of my hair that's virgin is porous :(

Mahars
March 12th, 2008, 10:27 AM
The woman who dyed my hair last said that hair becomes more porous when it is colored because the hair cuticle gets lifted when the color deposits itself into the hair shaft. My hair is very porous as a result. She said I should do occasional protein treatments to fill in the gaps in the cuticle and cold water rinses after every wash. She also said that porous hair doesn't hold moisture in as well and that I need to deep condition more frequently - like once a week. I do all of these things, but dryness is still a battle for me. I have to deep condition about twice/week to maintain softness. Can't wait until the damaged parts grow out. HTH.

BlndeInDisguise
March 12th, 2008, 10:56 AM
I've heard of some porosity balancing shampoos (or maybe conditioners, I can't remember which). Has anybody tried these and do they work?

FrannyG
March 12th, 2008, 01:53 PM
I usually use homemade deep treatments, but the one store-bought treatment that I do use from time to time is K-Pak by Joico. It is an excellent protein filler for the hair and helps with porosity.

It's the only expensive hair product I use, but I use it only about once a month and I don't use too much of it.

It's a wonderful treatment for porous hair.

girlcat36
March 12th, 2008, 01:56 PM
Sooo....since curly hair cuticles don't lie flat, it is reaonable to assume that curly hair is more porous than straight?

Emichiee
March 12th, 2008, 03:29 PM
No girlcat the wave does not affect the cuticles :)

That test described and linked to here doesnt make sense completely..if the finger does not slide easily it at least means that the cuticles still somehow have resistance which is a good thing. On really porous hair they break off and there will be no resistance.

For example..if you take one hair and slide your fingers over it against the cuticle it will feel difficult and squeaky at first..the more often it feels like this when you repeat that the more resistent is your hair.

Another test, curl a strand by sliding over it with the fingernails (do you know what I mean) and then lay it in a bit of water. The faster it uncurls the better :)

Or tie a knot into a streak and the easier it frees itself the better..

Of course I would never rely solely on these little tests..microscopic analysis is the best way :)
(if you can)

A lot of porosity balancing products contain cones which are not considered as good for hair. An easy way to give hair back moisture and flexibility is oil :flower:
Oily hair types also tend to be less porous btw.

chloeishere
March 12th, 2008, 04:27 PM
I remember heidi_w posting a different porosity test back on the old LHC. Something about taking a shed hair and floating it in water, and depending on how long it took your hair to sink, you would know if your hair was porous.
I can't remember the specifics, but I believe she has been on here, so someone could check with her.
Plus, that way you wouldn't be ruffling your hair's cuticle-- I know it's only a few strands, but still!
Hope that helps!

Mahars
March 12th, 2008, 04:44 PM
Sooo....since curly hair cuticles don't lie flat, it is reaonable to assume that curly hair is more porous than straight?

Yes I have read that curly hair is more porous. The reasoning is that curly hair bends around and around, thereby opening up the cuticle in the places the hair bends. I can't remember where I read this, but I'll try to find the article and post it.

girlcat36
March 12th, 2008, 05:14 PM
Am I the only one here who can't bring myself to run my fingers up a strand of hair against the cuticle? It's like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. I just can't make myself do it. Yeah, I'm a freak. I think I'll put my strand in a glass of water.

jojo
March 12th, 2008, 05:17 PM
mine just glides up no ruffles, though when my hair was dyed it would have probably disintegrated it was so porous, i dont think curly hair is more porous than straight, it tends to be more drier mine is curly round the fringe but more wavy at the back, porous hair tends to look fluffy especially at the ends, well mine used to do, oh and my hair floats on top of water and doesn't sink, so is that good?

Darian Moone
March 12th, 2008, 05:50 PM
Mine's not ruffling either. I'm surprised actually.

waidz
March 12th, 2008, 07:14 PM
Gosh my hair must be EXTREMELY porous. It ruffles as soon as I glide my finger up, and that's with Coconut Oil on my hair. Does that make sense?
I don't like this test, will try the water one as well!

Buddaphlyy
March 12th, 2008, 09:30 PM
I remember heidi_w posting a different porosity test back on the old LHC. Something about taking a shed hair and floating it in water, and depending on how long it took your hair to sink, you would know if your hair was porous.
I can't remember the specifics, but I believe she has been on here, so someone could check with her.
Plus, that way you wouldn't be ruffling your hair's cuticle-- I know it's only a few strands, but still!
Hope that helps!

This is how I learned to do porosity tests also. The general consensus is that the more your hair sinks, the more porous it is.


Sooo....since curly hair cuticles don't lie flat, it is reaonable to assume that curly hair is more porous than straight?

As someone who has naturally very curly hair (Type 4), I think this is true. I think I read it somewhere in the CG book. Even when my hair is at it's absolute healthiest, my hair always sinks a little when I do the porosity test.

BlndeInDisguise
March 12th, 2008, 09:40 PM
This is how I learned to do porosity tests also. The general consensus is that the more your hair sinks, the more porous it is.

Wait, so you're saying if it sinks, then it means it's very porous?

doodlesmart
March 12th, 2008, 09:46 PM
Wait, so you're saying if it sinks, then it means it's very porous?

That would make sense. The more porous it is, the easier it is for water to get in. The easier it is for water to get in, the faster it will start to sink.

Buddaphlyy
March 13th, 2008, 01:14 AM
That would make sense. The more porous it is, the easier it is for water to get in. The easier it is for water to get in, the faster it will start to sink.

Basically. :)

But as I said, even when my hair is at it's healthiest, it sinks down a little bit because of my curl pattern. So some people's hair is naturally porous and will sink down a little bit all the time. This is okay. Now if the hair sinks ALL the way to the bottom all the time, that's when there may be a problem.

ilovelonghair
March 13th, 2008, 01:25 AM
That test described and linked to here doesnt make sense completely..if the finger does not slide easily it at least means that the cuticles still somehow have resistance which is a good thing. On really porous hair they break off and there will be no resistance.


In that case my hair must be really healthy LOL. I'm getting confused!

rubyredslippers
March 13th, 2008, 01:45 AM
I'd heard about the strand water porosity test in my forays away from LHC, from a woman who would show her clients how much hair would need to be cut off before she did a perm. The hair that remained floating was strong enough to be permed, but if it sunk then perming would be too damaging and the hair would break off or be fried.

I was heartened to hear that some stylists care enough about their clients to show them this sort of thing in advance.

Emichiee
March 13th, 2008, 01:57 PM
Yes I have read that curly hair is more porous. The reasoning is that curly hair bends around and around, thereby opening up the cuticle in the places the hair bends. I can't remember where I read this, but I'll try to find the article and post it.

I think that referes to african hair though. Because of its tightly twisted structure its more vulnerable to damage.

ilovelonghair

I dont mean to confuse anyone ^^ knowing how the hairs cuticles look I just cant imagine how you could go UP all smooth. Its like a rats tail..ever tried to slide your fingers up a rats tail ;) (the animal wont like it either)

Not sure..I tried it with my hair and it made a squeaky noise from top to bottom :uhh:

savi
March 13th, 2008, 02:30 PM
About porosity I found this article. (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/367189/hair_porosity_help_for_dry_damaged.html)
There are porosity tests on the third page..
HTH.

lynnala
March 13th, 2008, 03:21 PM
Ah ha! Now it makes sense why my hair won't hold hair dye! When I used to dye it, that is. Even darker permanent dyes wouldn't stick to my hair, which according to the tests, is very non-porous.

redcelticcurls
March 13th, 2008, 03:53 PM
That was interesting. An hour in the water and it still floats. I color treat and heat dry too, so I guess it isn't always so bad.

It helps explain my protein hatred. I'm not porous.

Buddaphlyy
March 13th, 2008, 08:00 PM
I think that referes to african hair though. Because of its tightly twisted structure its more vulnerable to damage.

ilovelonghair

I dont mean to confuse anyone ^^ knowing how the hairs cuticles look I just cant imagine how you could go UP all smooth. Its like a rats tail..ever tried to slide your fingers up a rats tail ;) (the animal wont like it either)

Not sure..I tried it with my hair and it made a squeaky noise from top to bottom :uhh:

Not all African have curly hair and everyone with curly hair is not African, so I have to strongly disagree with this point.

Emichiee
March 14th, 2008, 12:38 PM
Not all African have curly hair and everyone with curly hair is not African, so I have to strongly disagree with this point.

I am sorry that was how it was stated on a science website (termwise) so I adapted it.

They refer to the 'race group'* not the 'continent' ( I know people in Morroco look way different than elsewehere f.ex.)
I guess there is a better term but the only terms I know from my anthropolgy-books are german, so maybe you want to help me with the correct english term? :)

* Mongoloide, Kaukasoide, Negroide - in german

Buddaphlyy
March 14th, 2008, 01:56 PM
I am sorry that was how it was stated on a science website (termwise) so I adapted it.

They refer to the 'race group'* not the 'continent' ( I know people in Morroco look way different than elsewehere f.ex.)
I guess there is a better term but the only terms I know from my anthropolgy-books are german, so maybe you want to help me with the correct english term? :)

* Mongoloide, Kaukasoide, Negroide - in german

Well, again, it's incorrect, no matter what language it's in. "Race" is social construct, not a scientific fact.

There is no such thing as "African/Negroid" hair. While it is true that the majority of people of African descent have the same hair type (usually type 3 or 4), ANYBODY of any race has just as equal chance of having those hair types.

Therefore, in terms of porosity, anybody of any race that has curly hair will have a higher porosity because of the fact they have curls, not their race. Because technically, wavy Type 2 hair has higher porosity than Type 1 hair because waves are "curlier" than straight hair.

ReadingRenee
March 14th, 2008, 02:05 PM
"Race" is social construct, not a scientific fact.

Hey! That was a question on my sociology quiz yesterday. How funny to read someone saying it not 24 hours later.

oh oops thats a hi jack isn't it? Carry on with the hair. :)

Emichiee
March 14th, 2008, 03:20 PM
Well, again, it's incorrect, no matter what language it's in. "Race" is social construct, not a scientific fact.

There is no such thing as "African/Negroid" hair. While it is true that the majority of people of African descent have the same hair type (usually type 3 or 4), ANYBODY of any race has just as equal chance of having those hair types.


Are you upset?

Ok if there is no races and no racial hairtypes than I will go burn all those books now and slap those scientists. Maybe it was outdated. I dont really know..:confused:

All I meant to say the more bent and tightly curled the more vulnerable according to a research.

I have never really thought about it as a social construct or maybe nothing ever made me think that..after all I didnt grow up in the states..

getoffmyskittle
March 14th, 2008, 06:05 PM
Well, again, it's incorrect, no matter what language it's in. "Race" is social construct, not a scientific fact.

I think it's equally shortsighted to say either 1. there are distinct biological races and 2. race doesn't exist at all (except in our minds). While it's true that there are no genetically/biologically quantitative racial differences, you're still not going to get a white person and a black person mixed up, not even in bad lighting conditions. There *are* observable physical differences between people whose ancestry is in different parts of the world.


There is no such thing as "African/Negroid" hair. While it is true that the majority of people of African descent have the same hair type (usually type 3 or 4), ANYBODY of any race has just as equal chance of having those hair types.

That last part (about equal chances) is clearly untrue because, well, because of the first part of that sentence. Genetics says that if my parents both have curly hair, I'm more likely to have curly hair than straight hair. If my parents both have straight hair, I'm more likely to have straight. Since more people of African descent have curly/kinky hair than people of European or Asian descent, someone of African descent is statistically more likely (FAR more likely) to have what people see as "the African hair type." Also, maybe I don't get out enough, but I've never seen anyone of African descent (that is, ~50%) with natural 1a hair. Ever. Or even 2a, for that matter. Nor have I seen any white people with hair curlier than probably 3c/4a, and I don't think the people I've seen with that have some mixing going on.

Maybe in 100 or 200 years when genetic mixing continues we'll all be medium-skinned with brown eyes and moderately wavy/curly hair. But until then, people of African descent have a statistically significantly higher rate of curly/kinky hair than the rest of the world, people of European descent have a statistically significantly higher rate of blue eyes than the rest of the world, and people of Indian descent have... errr... dang, we didn't get anything special, did we? :wink: Anyway, while I completely agree with you that it's important not to generalize, especially since generalizations can and have led to horrible, horrible racial problems, saying that they simply don't exist isn't really the answer. Much like everything else, there's a happy medium. :grin:


Therefore, in terms of porosity, anybody of any race that has curly hair will have a higher porosity because of the fact they have curls, not their race. Because technically, wavy Type 2 hair has higher porosity than Type 1 hair because waves are "curlier" than straight hair.

:thumbsup:

savi
March 14th, 2008, 06:09 PM
Ahem... I think the correct term Emichiee ment to use was afro-textured hair. She didn't mean any harm. I still find some of those same terms in use in some books in my language(yes, I know they're outdated..). And then there is the language barrier.
With all due respect Emichiee your book is outdated. Then again there are scientist who still use those terms but they are using them purely in a rasist way, they hold a strong negative undertone in english, if I've understood correctly. I wouldn't use them if I were you, it's kinda rasistic. Those words come from old race theories, which were based on a nationalist thinking and used that way. On a lighter note if you want a scientist to slap I can recommend you a few. :D

Sorry if I meddled in other people's business.. :doh: I just hate it when people fight.

Buddaphlyy
March 14th, 2008, 07:06 PM
Are you upset?

Ok if there is no races and no racial hairtypes than I will go burn all those books now and slap those scientists. Maybe it was outdated. I dont really know..:confused:

All I meant to say the more bent and tightly curled the more vulnerable according to a research.

I have never really thought about it as a social construct or maybe nothing ever made me think that..after all I didnt grow up in the states..

No, I'm not upset just trying to inform from a different perspective. The bold is what I was saying, but is has nothing to do with race, but curl pattern, which any and everyone could have.

Buddaphlyy
March 14th, 2008, 07:22 PM
I think it's equally shortsighted to say either 1. there are distinct biological races and 2. race doesn't exist at all (except in our minds). While it's true that there are no genetically/biologically quantitative racial differences, you're still not going to get a white person and a black person mixed up, not even in bad lighting conditions. There *are* observable physical differences between people whose ancestry is in different parts of the world.




That last part (about equal chances) is clearly untrue because, well, because of the first part of that sentence. Genetics says that if my parents both have curly hair, I'm more likely to have curly hair than straight hair. If my parents both have straight hair, I'm more likely to have straight. Since more people of African descent have curly/kinky hair than people of European or Asian descent, someone of African descent is statistically more likely (FAR more likely) to have what people see as "the African hair type." Also, maybe I don't get out enough, but I've never seen anyone of African descent (that is, ~50%) with natural 1a hair. Ever. Or even 2a, for that matter. Nor have I seen any white people with hair curlier than probably 3c/4a, and I don't think the people I've seen with that have some mixing going on.

Maybe in 100 or 200 years when genetic mixing continues we'll all be medium-skinned with brown eyes and moderately wavy/curly hair. But until then, people of African descent have a statistically significantly higher rate of curly/kinky hair than the rest of the world, people of European descent have a statistically significantly higher rate of blue eyes than the rest of the world, and people of Indian descent have... errr... dang, we didn't get anything special, did we? :wink: Anyway, while I completely agree with you that it's important not to generalize, especially since generalizations can and have led to horrible, horrible racial problems, saying that they simply don't exist isn't really the answer. Much like everything else, there's a happy medium. :grin:



:thumbsup:

I'm not saying that race doesn't exist. That would be foolish, especially since I've experienced racism first hand.

What I am saying is that in terms of porosity, a persons hair type, NOT their race, is more important in telling of whether or not their hair will be porous. Any and all curls (not just type 4 ones) will be more porous than straighter hair.

Emichiee
March 14th, 2008, 11:09 PM
-Savi, Getoffmyskittle..everyone else

So the correct term is afro textured hair then instead of african hair? Well I guess my book might be outdated, its from the early 90ies and describes 3 major 'races' with subcategories. I think they mostly refer to genetic trades (hope that is a good term)..meaning the look..of lets say a skandinavian that is slightly different than a italian..well thats what the book was about.

I think many terms are considered racist these days, especially in english. I know in germany many people still say the word "negro" to describe someones looks and it does not mean anything bad to them.
I dont even think that as mixed as I am I could be racist but I want to assure everyone Im so not racist against anyone..I dont even care enough to think about race and who looks how.
I realize though since moving to the states that there really is many problems related to race, culture etc.
Im always saying I want to stay out of that..whatever those people feel I cant understand or follow in any way. :confused: :( They are all Americans to me o_O


People-
Try to be an immigrant..everyone looks at you weird...blacks, whites, hispanics :lol: they all team up ;)

getoffmyskittle
March 14th, 2008, 11:26 PM
I'm not saying that race doesn't exist. That would be foolish, especially since I've experienced racism first hand.

What I am saying is that in terms of porosity, a persons hair type, NOT their race, is more important in telling of whether or not their hair will be porous. Any and all curls (not just type 4 ones) will be more porous than straighter hair.

Right, I totally agree with you, but I think what Emi meant was type 4 hair, which is usually described as "kinky" rather than "curly" (at least, that I've heard; since the curls are smaller and closer together than what is usually deemed "curly"), which is found with much greater frequency on people of African descent than it is on people of most other descent. I don't think she meant to say that people of a certain race automatically have more porous hair than people of other races *because* of their race, if that makes sense at all; I know it's convoluted. :silly:

I do understand the frustration that comes with reading such things... I pretty much singlehandedly got the "Indian Hair Thread" on the old LHC locked because of stuff like this. :lol: But yeah, I think part of the problem here is that English is not her first language (sorry, Emi, by the way; I feel weird talking about you in the third person when you're part of this conversation), which can make it hard to find/use the most accurate terms.

Also, Emi - I wouldn't use the term afro textured hair. I would simply say "kinky" which sounds a little odd but is generally understood. :silly:

chloeishere
March 14th, 2008, 11:36 PM
I am positive that no-one here meant any insult with racial remarks. It can be especially hard to express yourself well if you are speaking in a non-native language, I'm sure everyone knows you didn't mean any disrespect, Emichiee.
And yeah, curly hair (found in any group of people) is generally more porous.

I'm going to move on, but I also mean no disrespect! I just finally got around to trying the floaty test.


That was interesting. An hour in the water and it still floats. I color treat and heat dry too, so I guess it isn't always so bad.

It helps explain my protein hatred. I'm not porous.

My hair is still floating-- it's been about 20 minutes (I don't feel like waiting any longer, though I left it in the water to see if it ever sinks-- I even poked it under a few times, and it still floats), and my hair loves protein. I don't think the two issues are necessary the same. My hair also takes about 3 hours to dry except when I had a pixie cut, which is another sign of non-porous hair.

I was surprised the end didn't sink, since that area has been color treated/stripped.

The porosity test link found a few pages back is directly linked here (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/367189/hair_porosity_help_for_dry_damaged.html?page=3) (to page 3), and my hair faired really well for all of them. I'm glad, since I have no plans to color treat for the foreseeable future!

hennalonghair
May 20th, 2014, 03:45 PM
I am positive that no-one here meant any insult with racial remarks. It can be especially hard to express yourself well if you are speaking in a non-native language, I'm sure everyone knows you didn't mean any disrespect, Emichiee.
And yeah, curly hair (found in any group of people) is generally more porous.

I'm going to move on, but I also mean no disrespect! I just finally got around to trying the floaty test.



My hair is still floating-- it's been about 20 minutes (I don't feel like waiting any longer, though I left it in the water to see if it ever sinks-- I even poked it under a few times, and it still floats), and my hair loves protein. I don't think the two issues are necessary the same. My hair also takes about 3 hours to dry except when I had a pixie cut, which is another sign of non-porous hair.

I was surprised the end didn't sink, since that area has been color treated/stripped.

The porosity test link found a few pages back is directly linked here (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/367189/hair_porosity_help_for_dry_damaged.html?page=3) (to page 3), and my hair faired really well for all of them. I'm glad, since I have no plans to color treat for the foreseeable future!

Interesting link on porosity of hair.
yes its an old thread