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LadyinWaiting
December 17th, 2010, 02:03 PM
What do you all think about Dr. George Michael's philosophy that hair is at its strongest all one length with no bangs?

What do you think about his thoughts on brushing 100 times a day?

I can't imagine having no bangs...my forehead is way too wide and high...I would feel naked!

myria
December 17th, 2010, 02:17 PM
Honestly? I don't think any one piece of advice works for everyone.
I have no bangs since I grew them out a few years ago. I don't think it's made any real difference to my hair's strength. Although it's nice not to have to style them in the morning. :D
I've noticed less damage in my hair when combing not brushing and bb brushes won't go through my hair, only smooth out the top so I think that would be a disaster for me. :silly:

pepperminttea
December 17th, 2010, 02:19 PM
Mixed thoughts. I've heard some people with really beautiful heads of hair extolling his 'wisdom' but I've yet to see it for myself. Blunt hair isn't always the easiest to work with; I really envy people with fairytale ends when I put my hair into a bun, since blunt ends are a lot harder to tuck in and hide. And I don't really see how bangs would be relevant to anything except the wearer's preference on them. As for brushing 100 strokes a day, well, just plain no from me. I'm sure it must have worked for someone, but for me I stop brushing (well, combing actually) when I've finished detangling - less manipulation, less damage.

Cleopatra18
December 17th, 2010, 02:23 PM
It may be true,in the sense that you can easily break one hair strand but practically impossible to break for example an entire section of hair.
It's impossible to get a brush into my hair at all,and I would imagine it very damaging.
just guessing really. :shrug:

Elenna
December 17th, 2010, 02:23 PM
Bangs or layers slowing down hair growth has never been proven. Particulary, there is no way to tie in bangs or layers to hair growth. People have such individual hair & growth rates. I have salt 'n pepper long hair with bangs and my hair is still growing!!!!

Some people here do advocate brushing with a boars bristle brush (BBB) and others don't. Some feel that brushing can be damaging to the hair others say that it is a good way to distribute oils/sebrum down the hair length. IMO brushing a 100 strokes per day can lead to damage.

Otherwise, Dr. George Michael's hair care philosophy is interesting and helpful.

Cleopatra18
December 17th, 2010, 02:26 PM
Bangs or layers slowing down hair growth has never been proven. Particulary, there is no way to tie in bangs or layers to hair growth. People have such individual hair & growth rates. I have salt 'n pepper long hair with bangs and my hair is still growing!!!!

Some people here do advocate brushing with a boars bristle brush (BBB) and others don't. Some feel that brushing can be damaging to the hair others say that it is a good way to distribute oils/sebrum down the hair length. IMO brushing a 100 strokes per day can lead to damage.

Otherwise, Dr. George Michael's hair care philosophy is interesting and helpful.
I dont think the OP related layers to the growth rate,rather to the overall strength of the hair aka less liable to breakage.

spidermom
December 17th, 2010, 02:28 PM
I appreciate his attitude and love for long hair, but as to the specifics - poppycock! (yes, us oldsters still say that) Nobody on this earth has hair all one length. Every single day, hairs shed out. Every single day, new hairs grow in. We all have hair of every length. I can't say for sure, but I do not believe that hair follicles know the difference between hairs that are 3 inches long because they're newer hairs and hairs that are 3 inches long because they're bangs.

Madora
December 17th, 2010, 02:44 PM
I believe in it 100%. For years I've brushed 100 strokes per day and never had any issues with damaged hair.

Mr. Michael studied hair extensively before opening his salon in the mid 50s. His methods caught on with ladies who loved long hair and wanted to keep it that way. He also welcomed short haired folks who wanted to learn how to grow their hair out.

To me, a blunt hemline looks wonderful and shows off the hair in a spectacular way.

Brushing the correct way, whether you do 100 strokes a day or not, is an important factor in how your hair thrives. Using a bbb to brush not only imparts a wonderful softness and shine to your hair, it exercises the hair follicles, removes stuff from your scalp, and distributes the natural sebum in your hair.

One of the nicest compliments I ever received from a total stranger was the question "Are you a George Michael client?"

little_cherry
December 17th, 2010, 02:54 PM
100 strokes a day? All that does is massages the scalp to encourage sebum flow and moves it down the length. I oil and get the same results without all that brushing.

Deborah
December 17th, 2010, 02:58 PM
I don't think we should brush him off either. The hair he worked with revealed his wisdom.

Superfine
December 17th, 2010, 03:40 PM
Wow, Madora, what beautiful & you are such a testimony for his methods. I read his book in 1980 & bought a Kent of London BBB (which I still use). I had layered hair when I read his book & was using hot rollers! Fried it, of course. Chopped & now years later I am at one length BSL with bangs. My hair is in very good condition (thanks to all of your advice) & I see no problem having bangs. Without bangs, my uneven hairline because of 65 yr. old hairloss, my forehead is too high & the bangs also soften my face. I loved the part in his book about washing, rolling, drying under a cool dryer, the comb out & cut dry! Some of you would be there a week!!

Madora
December 17th, 2010, 04:15 PM
Yes, superfine, Mr. Michael's hair treatments were fabulous! You never felt so pampered in your life!

While I was in his NYC salon one time I saw a girl come in with mid length back hair that didn't look all that terrific. When she left the difference was astounding. Silky, shining, absolutely wonderful!

Mr. Michael's book, alas, is now very hard to find..and costs a fortune when you do! I saw a copy at Amazon about a month ago and they were asking $325.00!!!

Elenna
December 17th, 2010, 08:20 PM
I believe in it 100%. For years I've brushed 100 strokes per day and never had any issues with damaged hair. Mr. Michael studied hair extensively before opening his salon in the mid 50s. His methods caught on with ladies who loved long hair and wanted to keep it that way. He also welcomed short haired folks who wanted to learn how to grow their hair out. To me, a blunt hemline looks wonderful and shows off the hair in a spectacular way. Brushing the correct way, whether you do 100 strokes a day or not, is an important factor in how your hair thrives. Using a bbb to brush not only imparts a wonderful softness and shine to your hair, it exercises the hair follicles, removes stuff from your scalp, and distributes the natural sebum in your hair....




Many hair care methods found here on LHC have some means of oiling or other moisturizing for the hair. Why would natural sebrum be better than anything else? And if there is a correct way to brush the hair then why is it better than these? And why would brushing be so important???? And what is the right way to brush hair?

Annalouise
December 17th, 2010, 08:50 PM
Does anyone have a link for G. Michaels philosophy?:)

Does anyone know if he differentiates between different types of hair? Are fine hairs supposed to brush 100x a day?

rhosyn_du
December 17th, 2010, 09:10 PM
I think some of his ideas have merit, but the whole bangs slowing down growth thing makes no sense, and anyone with wurly hair can attest the BBBs are really not good for some heads of hair.

Roseate
December 17th, 2010, 09:15 PM
Does anyone have a link for G. Michaels philosophy?:)


A link (http://www.longhairlovers.com/george_michael.html) to a website quoting him, with some extensive instructions on washing and brushing. And another (http://www.george-michael.de/en/company/the-philosophy/) to the website of his salons and products.

I don't believe that his methods are the best for everyone, but I do admire his dedication to long hair, and I'd love to visit one of the salons one day!

greygoth
December 17th, 2010, 09:19 PM
I appreciate his attitude and love for long hair, but as to the specifics - poppycock! (yes, us oldsters still say that) Nobody on this earth has hair all one length. Every single day, hairs shed out. Every single day, new hairs grow in. We all have hair of every length. I can't say for sure, but I do not believe that hair follicles know the difference between hairs that are 3 inches long because they're newer hairs and hairs that are 3 inches long because they're bangs.
What Spidermom said.

Emichiee
December 17th, 2010, 09:45 PM
I appreciate his attitude and love for long hair, but as to the specifics - poppycock! (yes, us oldsters still say that) Nobody on this earth has hair all one length. Every single day, hairs shed out. Every single day, new hairs grow in. We all have hair of every length. I can't say for sure, but I do not believe that hair follicles know the difference between hairs that are 3 inches long because they're newer hairs and hairs that are 3 inches long because they're bangs.

That!

And brushing 100times does far more damage than good. You don't need 100 strokes to massage your scalp or spread sebum.
Especially fragile hair won't like to be brushed too much :eek:

nellreno
December 17th, 2010, 09:52 PM
If someone has *very* curly hair, I would think that brushing 100 times a day would do more harm than good.

Emichiee
December 17th, 2010, 09:55 PM
[COLOR=#8b0000]While I was in his NYC salon one time I saw a girl come in with mid length back hair that didn't look all that terrific. When she left the difference was astounding. Silky, shining, absolutely wonderful!



Well then that is a miracle performed by a brush, products and possibly a blowdryer.
Because to actually improves the health of someones hair it would take at least months :)

I believe GM's salon name was also Madora?
I passed by it once.

sanfen
December 17th, 2010, 10:00 PM
I used to visit the GM salon in the 70s and a couple of times in the early 80s. I used to go with my friend who had a luxurious head of wavy blond hair. My hair was not as long nor as luxurious but it was nice, healthy and young! LOL My friend has since moved to CA and still has a gorgeous head of waist length hair that is not colored. She looks awesome. My longhair bud! :-)

We'd go and have the best time getting the treatment under the dryers and the having the rollers put in and then under the dryers again and afterwards we'd walk down 5th Ave swinging our hair around! What fun we had.

We bought into the whole brushing thing and the shampoo and the cream rinse. Those days were before they made their own products. It was Prell for once in a while, Breck cream rinse, I can't remember the cream shampoo they recommended. Oh darn it, I can't remember the name of the 12 minute hair conditioner either. :-/

Got the London's BBB bruch, the Kent combs (still buy those) the all plastic barrettes (no metal) I still look high and low for those all plastic barrettes - still use them.

I do have to say that Mr. Micheal was quite the lady's man. I was 90 lbs dripping wet - tiny. My friend had waht you'd call "qualifications." And the long fabulous thick blond hair. Guess who got the most attention from Mr. Michael??? LOL And I don't think it was just the hair either . . . too funny (he was really funny to observe.) What great memories . . . :-)

auburn
December 18th, 2010, 12:58 AM
What do you all think about Dr. George Michael's philosophy that hair is at its strongest all one length with no bangs?

What do you think about his thoughts on brushing 100 times a day?

I can't imagine having no bangs...my forehead is way too wide and high...I would feel naked!

Might be something to it, cause it increases blood circulation and stuff like that, I mean it might work on some.

But for me... I only shed lots more hair and it becomes oily within 3-4 hours after. And than shed some more when and after washing.So it's not good AT ALL for me.

Igor
December 18th, 2010, 12:59 AM
I think first of all, some “evidence” about his theory’s effect can be shrugged off because his clients already have an impressive and healthy head of hair. People that seek him out already are taking great care of their hair and have been for years to get at the lengths they show. It’s not his methods that give results, its having a mane growing out of the scalp of a dedicated longhair that does. Even if we can disagree on some of his ideas, hair on someone following his “school” still gets better treatment than the majority of hair out there: No heat styling, no colour, and no harsh styling products.


What do you all think about Dr. George Michael's philosophy that hair is at its strongest all one length with no bangs?
I don’t buy the theory on bangs forbidden. I can’t see how the follicle can possible know if the hair has been snipped off at forehead length, BSL, classic, whatever really and somehow send a signal out to the rest of the scalp to shed more. Hair is dead. It has no nerve cells. The follicle is almost automatic too: It just keeps spinning hair out no matter how we cut it, until it reaches Telogen, the resting phase. Only severe chemical or physical damage from the inside or the outside to the follicle can change that.
Personally, I think that’s his own preference. The only difference between him and a mean old lady’s comment on that you should definitely colour and cut your hair, is that he has a book and salons (And that not all of his theories are silly)


What do you think about his thoughts on brushing 100 times a day?
I don’t see why brushing 100 strokes a day should be more stimulating on growth than say, massage. As far as I remember, the theory on brushing is because he believes it stimulates the little muscle attached to the follicle, musculus arrector pilli. That’s the little muscle that is responsible for giving us goose bumps. He believes that strengthening this muscle will decrease shedding. My issue with that, is that the muscle is attached to the follicle and not in any way to the hair strand. The follicle is like a glove surrounding the living part of the hair strand. Hair can be pulled out if you tug too hard. I don’t understand how he can think that strengthening a little muscle attached to the follicle, which only purpose is to pull the follicle more perpendicular to the skin, should somehow decrease handling-shedding. It’s like stuffing a leek down a glove and believing you can keep it from falling out by tying strong elastic to the thumb-part of the glove.
Handling-shedding can only be decreased with gentle handling.

Elenna
December 18th, 2010, 01:05 AM
I am still interested in the reason for brushing hair and why it was part of the Dr. George Michael philosophy. Does sebrum have different properties than oil? Does brushing hair offer an advantage?

Beats me, whether hair it attached better to follicle with brushing. But I'd say that GM did get great results. Which came first, the great hair or the hair growing method?

PrincessBob
December 18th, 2010, 01:11 AM
Off topic, but the title made me start singing "Last Christmas I Gave You My Heart."

Igor
December 18th, 2010, 01:14 AM
I am still interested in the reason for brushing hair and why it was part of the Dr. George Michael philosophy. Does sebrum have different properties than oil? Does brushing hair offer an advantage?
Brushing is often used to distribute sebum and clean a greasy scalp from it.

From what I understand, yes, sebum has very different properties from oil. Some oils can penetrate and bind itself to the hair strand, but sebum will coat it and seal out humidity. Some people use jojoba oil which is chemically very close to natural sebum to coat hair. Jojoba doesn’t penetrate the hair strand either.

(I think this makes perfect sense from an evolutionary point of view: Nature doesn’t care if our sebum makes hair longer, stronger and healthier, it is there to keep furry animals dry from rain and water so they don’t get cold and sick)

leslissocool
December 18th, 2010, 01:17 AM
Off topic, but the title made me start singing "Last Christmas I Gave You My Heart."
Yes! I was just singing that while I read the thread...

ericthegreat
December 18th, 2010, 01:52 AM
Spidermom and Igor have already made many of the points that I was going to make.

As spidermom mentioned before, no one, not any one of us truly have hair that is completely one-length. Everyone of us has hair that is of all different lengths, and at no time will we ever have all of our hair at equal lengths, even if we were to try to cut it so. We would still have all those super short baby hairs and hairs that naturally have a shorter terminal length.

And as Igor mentioned, there really is no way that a hair strand can "know" how long it is. Its completely dead protein. The only living portion of our hair is the actual hair follicle, which is growing under our skin.

The whole "brushing 100 strokes a day" rule is definitely a myth. For one thing, that much brushing can actually cause more harm than good. Hair that has been brushed that often will have a lot of its cuticles worn off or even torn off, and excessive brushing can often pull out hair that wouldn't have come out had you not brush it. Also, all that brushing would be terrible for people who have wavier and curlier locks. Brushing takes out and disturbs natural curl formation for those who have curls.

No disrespect to Mr. George Michael, but all his research concerning hair was conducted more than half a century ago. The science of today has since progressed way beyond anything he studied. And even during his heyday, his theories were at best considered very controversial and for the most part thought to be false or inconclusive even then.

freckles
December 18th, 2010, 02:38 AM
I had a quick read-through of the link Roseate posted above.
It seems like he mentions lots of ideas that many LHCers love now -- air drying rather than blowdrying, a version of CWC, reduced washing of the length, no brushing while wet, occasional clarifying (without using that word). I can see how many people's hair would be improved by using his methods. I don't really like his hardline opinion-as-facts phrasing though, I prefer LHC's recognition that, with all things, YMMV (in fact, that's one of my favourite things about LHC).
100 brush strokes a day with a BBB might work great on some people's hair (and it's a tip I heard constantly as a child, so it must have come from somewhere) -- I'm pretty sure it would shred my hair. The thing about parting to the right rather than the left to exercise the hair follicles SOUNDS like total bunk, but I guess I can't be certain -- I have no idea whether follicles grow 'left to right' although it sounds unlikely (and what does that mean exactly? aren't follicles round?). The bangs thing about one-length hair being stronger ... I agree with spidermom. Poppycock.

ETA: I agree with Roseate, though, that despite disagreeing with some of his ideas, a trip to a George Michael salon would be a cool experience. Personally I want one-length hair and I would love to go to somewhere where I know all the stylists appreciate long hair, and be indulged :)

Sunsailing
December 18th, 2010, 04:46 AM
Well then that is a miracle performed by a brush, products and possibly a blowdryer.

By that statement, I can tell you've never been to a GM salon ;) (No blowdryers)
The results last long after you leave the salon.

The GM method involves much more than brushing. Why is everyone so hung up on the brushing part? Brushing is just one little part.

And the "one length" comments. Of course GM knew that hair was not all one length. I'm not really understanding the people who are making that point? He advocated for no layers and no bangs.
If you like bangs, then by all means wear bangs. If you walk into a GM salon with bangs, they're not going to run you out the door!

I was able to read his book during my treatments at a GM salon. I can comment on it because I've read it. Just like anything, get what you can from it. Pick and choose what you feel will work for you.

If his methods did not work, his business would not have had the longevity that it has enjoyed.

I highly recommend everyone experiencing a GM salon at least once. I can guarantee that you're hair will be treated with the respect that it deserves.
Try it.....you might like it :)

krn2891
December 18th, 2010, 08:49 AM
Some of us will never have hair that is all one length. I cut all my hair back to shoulder lengther 10 years ago to give my bangs a chance to be the same length as the rest of my hair. I figure it would all grow out together. Guess what my bans are still shoulder length while the rest of my hair is TB. and I don't cut my bangs they just don't get longer then that. So I use them as natural face framing layers.

getoffmyskittle
December 18th, 2010, 09:51 AM
I've always wanted to be able to brush my hair 100 strokes per day, because it seems like a really fun ritual for someone as hair-obsessed as I am.

Unfortunately, even with a BBB, this method leads to terrible static and splits for me. :( I only fingercomb; any kind of detangling tool is hard on my hair. It's not even curly, just a bit wavy/fluffy.

I also have a U-shaped hemline and bangs (though I'm growing them out), soo... :shrug:

kwaniesiam
December 18th, 2010, 10:22 AM
I appreciate George Michael and what he has done for long hair, especially in the professional world, but that is total BS. Your hair is as strong as your hair is, that comes from the texture and the scalp. Not how long each individual hair is. Brushing is an individual thing, some people here do nothing but fingercomb occasionally and they have gorgeous hair.

Xandergrammy
December 18th, 2010, 10:26 AM
We bought into the whole brushing thing and the shampoo and the cream rinse. Those days were before they made their own products. It was Prell for once in a while, Breck cream rinse, I can't remember the cream shampoo they recommended. Oh darn it, I can't remember the name of the 12 minute hair conditioner either. :-/


I can't remember the 12 minute hair conditioner, but I know he used to recommend Helene Curtis Windsor Shampoo. It was pink and creamy and you were supposed to dilute it. It was very nice. Pity it isn't around any more.

heidi w.
December 18th, 2010, 12:40 PM
I don't want to overly argue with anyone, but just about every suggestion we provide here on LHC for properly caring for hair, is mentioned in Dr. Michael's books.

IF anyone is curious what GM hair looks like, check out one of the responder's within this thread, Madora. Her historical photos of her hair reveal incredibly beautiful hair, all cared for under George Michael. You can see her curling the ends one time, just as he would. You can see her hair shine in the salon chair. It's all there. When I checked out her historical photos in her album, I knew IMMEDIATELY this was a George Michael client. I even recognized the salon chair. I contacted Madora recently, by leaving compliments, and realized that we had in fact met back around a decade ago. She's a wonderful person and very, very knowledgeable about hair.

Allow me to explain. It's a common misunderstanding how people put things together as it concerns his system and beliefs that he wrote about in his book, which I've read cover to cover, and own. I've also been to the Madora Salon in New York City, and have met in person the woman who now owns that salon, Maria. A wonderful person; can't say enough positives about her. As Madora (poster in this thread) stated, you are entirely pampered there. One other thing to keep in mind, that none of his theories or practices are in isolation. It's not do this and this separately. SO those following his ideas will not do as well if they only do one thing and that thing....cherry picking....they do best doing the whole thing. His whole idea is all interwoven, so we can't argue too much about one tenet in isolation from the whole. It's harder. Without the full context, it becomes almost silly sounding.

1. The GM salons do not ONLY service long haired clients who arrive there with already fully grown hair length, or well on its way. That's simply not true. When I was there, a woman with chin length hair was there getting some treatments. The salon provides usual salon services including manicures and coloring, for example. They absolutely DO help people grow their hair long, and help those with troubled long hair improve the quality of their hair. All types, all textures, although I would argue his book and publicity photos tend to work with a core hair type. If you saw the wall of photos, you would see all hair types present, all colors present, and all lengths present and accounted for.

2. All one length. Tied to no bangs theory. This isn't about strength quite, his theory on this. It's about that some hair on the head is significantly shorter (e.g. bangs) and some longer, and because of this there's a kind of imbalance that nature tries to "balance", or 'average' between two extremes. Meaning, that the hair will then not grow to its longest potential when trying to balance between two extremes. He is well aware that in terms of measurement hair is not all one length about the head. It's really about his theory of equalization. His idea is additionally based on an aesthetic.

2a. His aesthetic is that grown women look best in long hair without bangs. In his book he states rather clearly that most women do not look their best with a center part because the face is not symmetrical, for most. He has a reason for suggesting a side part, and if I recall correctly (my copy of the book is out on long-term loan presently), it's a side part on one's right.....moving hair from right over to the left side. He minimally suggests parting on the side at night time.

2b. Also, some people have what's known as weak spots. This means a section of hair that tends to grow shorter than the rest of the length (as predetermined genetically). There are some possible workarounds for such a situation, but no solid solutions, exactly. I have a weak spot. Mine is a leftover from having layers.

2b. Another aesthetic....the hemline. He doesn't leave a hemline merely blunt cut, all one length across from side-to-side. He likes to curl the ends under for the 'pretty' effect. He also has some aesthetics about body proportions and the length someone should grow to. In fact, when he's asked to cut hair length, he's one of the few that is considerate and doesn't tie and lop off, nor allow hair to fall on the floor like so much trash. He usually braids, and then does a cut, and also he would heavily consult to ensure one is truly ready for that difference. He often used ribbons. And laid the hair in a box for you, like roses (in one famed case I know of). He always would cut back to shoulder blade length (bottom of). So the hemline, his experience, all one length so we don't have fighting proportions on the head, and also to create that sense of consistent volume from top to bottom. That's what that is about. Another way of understanding proportion. For example, on me, he'd probably recommend no longer than say, waist or classic length......

3. Hair KNOWS when to be in resting phase, growth phase, and shed phase. Like a woman's menstruation and when to release egg, the flow of progesterone, estrogen, yadda, bleeding, the whole cycle...., the body does know that hair is X length. Note, When the hair replaces, it aims to replace at the length the hair is, overall.

4. 100 strokes a day. It is predicated on the notion that (a) one has already detangled their hair; (b) one hangs their head forward, bending at the waist, allowing hair to fall over the head. You brush from the back and down. These two facts are important: pre-detangled, and leaning forward. Leaning forward helps the blood flow to the hair follicles (which are fed by a vein underneath....), and this builds stronger follicles, not hair per se. This also moves sebum about, since it only tends to go down, naturally on its own, about 6 inches if we just don't wash the hair for about 2 weeks (average). One does this with a BBB, which is a polishing tool. BBB brushes are NOT meant for detangling. HIs idea went to tensile strength of hair, as well. Hair that can remain attached to the head, has some elasticity (as informed by good condition, meaning it doesn't break off), will also grow to its full potential.

Another woman who has followed George Michael's ideas to some extent, Lady Grace (found on Floor Length Hair Club 2). I can't say enough positive things about Lady Grace as a person. I've met her in person and witnessed her hair at more than 8 feet of length. She is a woman in her mid-life, as I am, and her hair's thickness is stunning. Not that long ago she trimmed back to either classic or almost hip....and is now grown out again. She doesn't follow all of the tenets, nor use their products. But she does the brushing, leaning forward. She has had consultations with Mr. George Michael in the distant past, and now sees the wisdom of some of his practices.

I hope this covers the main concern posed in this thread and sheds some light on his reasons.

My personal experience at the NYC salon was very kind, very generous, and a wondeful and attentive staff. They took their time, never rushed me, and I received in all honesty the best trim of my life there. They served me tea; talked to me at length regarding my hair concerns and goals; gave their take-home pamphlet, which I still have signed by Maria. IF I had the bucks, I'd visit at least once per year, if not twice, and my hair would likely be a somewhat different story. I have nice hair, but the trims would make a big difference.

Knowing what I know now, I would recommend regular trims, not allowing fairy tale ends to get too fairytale-ish.....and trimming for keeping a nice hemline from day one. One does not need to do this every 10 weeks as so many salons recommend. He has hair undergo conditioning treatments with a low heat setting under a cap, and one can do this at home. His staff would train those in the how-to of using products. IF I had trimmed from day one, my hemline would be gorgeous, and somewhat thicker even though I am entering my 50s and the volume is definitely waning.

Hopefully this clarifies a few things to some extent. People are free to make their own decisions and all, but I do believe it's important to really understand the full context of his ideas. In isolation they can come across as silly. A GM salon is a gestalt experience.

heidi w.

heidi w.
December 18th, 2010, 12:46 PM
I am still interested in the reason for brushing hair and why it was part of the Dr. George Michael philosophy. Does sebrum have different properties than oil? Does brushing hair offer an advantage?



Yes, sebum IS different from an applied oil. The closest oil gets is mimicry. Jojoba being the most close to sebum.

Sebum is not oil. Sebum is a waxy ester. Note that one can kind of roll it in a ball. Kind of like ear wax.....

It keeps the scalp skin smooth. It helps to catch dirt and sloughed skin cells and prevents clogging of pores. It also helps the closest associated hair to have a protective coating on it, and give some shine.

Oil is not a waxy ester.

heidi w.

heidi w.
December 18th, 2010, 12:50 PM
I think first of all, some “evidence” about his theory’s effect can be shrugged off because his clients already have an impressive and healthy head of hair. People that seek him out already are taking great care of their hair and have been for years to get at the lengths they show. It’s not his methods that give results, its having a mane growing out of the scalp of a dedicated longhair that does. Even if we can disagree on some of his ideas, hair on someone following his “school” still gets better treatment than the majority of hair out there: No heat styling, no colour, and no harsh styling products.


I refute this a few posts up. His clients do not necessarily come to him with fully grown hair length, and that he's capitalizing on their hard work already. I have seen what a "treatment" results in because I have been close to those that utilize the treatment methods and seen before/after hair, and trust me, there are obvious results of improvement. So, yes, his methods do create results. In fact, his treatment involve heat, absolutely. Just not high heat for a long period of time....it's a low setting and capped and stay a while. His salon does absolutely color (the NYC one and the Ohio one both offer coloring services).

heidi w.

heidi w.
December 18th, 2010, 12:56 PM
Well then that is a miracle performed by a brush, products and possibly a blowdryer.
Because to actually improves the health of someones hair it would take at least months :)

I believe GM's salon name was also Madora?
I passed by it once.

It's too bad you didn't ever have the opportunity to make an appointment because you would realize there isn't a blow dryer in the joint. They mostly use a comb for working with the hair.....and yes, their products. That part is right.

The salon was George Michael. Then he basically trademarked his name. The NYC salon is known as "Madora".

You see, time came and he sold his salon to Maria who re-named it Madora in reference to her name.

http://www.madoralonghairheaven.com/madorahistory.html
MADORA (aka.Maria Matarazzo) worked directly with Dr. George Michael for over 35 years, and was instrumental in helping to establish the reputation of the George Michael Salon and Products worldwide.

Marie is definitely a mature woman and very beautiful. If you ever met her, I promise you would not be able to guess her age. She still has long hair, in fact. Beautiful fluffy white hair. It's gorgeous.

heidi w.

ETA:
Please note the design of our product packages as distinguished by the MADORA name,
sketch and seals (Including our original "World Center" Salon* logo). These trademarks are your guide to getting our proven salon treatments and original formula products.

Copyright 1957, MADORA Inc., George Michael of Madison Avenue. All rights reserved.
*All other "George Michael Salons" are independently owned affiliates.
http://www.madoralonghairheaven.com/madora2.html

heidi w.
December 18th, 2010, 01:01 PM
The use of a Boar Bristle Brush includes that for most, it does not penetrate the hair's thickness, depth (inward). Instead it glides along the surface of the hair and one brushes the topside and underside (even if leaning forward) separately. The very top of the head and front is not directly brushed as many are taught to do with a brush from youth.....one is leaning foward and therefore never really touches overly the very top of the head......His idea is to brush in the morning and give the hair volume and get the blood flowing into the vessels. (Remember, hair follicles and whatever is going on under the scalp skin, in terms of the body's hierarchy, is the last thing.....heart, lungs, arms, legs....they all get attention first)

ETA: for clarity, his idea is to brush from the nape of the neck.....

If one is pressing in to the hair's thickness with a BBB as they might with a regular brush or comb, then yes, you're going to having pulling and more hair loss.

heidi w.

lillylonghair
December 18th, 2010, 01:01 PM
I actually love a good brushing with BBB. As Heidi said, with the hair pre detangled,etc. It honestly has made a HUGE difference in the condition of my hair and the way it feels.

ktani
December 18th, 2010, 01:05 PM
"the body does know that hair is X length. Note, When the hair replaces, it aims to replace at the length the hair is, overall."

This makes no sense to me. Hair, once it has grown out of the follicle is dead.

I fail to see how the body "knows" how long it has grown.

heidi w.
December 18th, 2010, 01:13 PM
So, how does your body know when to release the egg at mensus and its cycles? How does your heart know to keep beating? How does your body know to keep breathing?

I am at a cafe and can't reference my hair book library presently. Further, I loaned some of my key texts to a friend, on long-term loan.

But think of it like this. When your hair grows in (replacing), for a time there are some shorter hairs that stick out (halo effect, for example), yet soon enough....the hair is the length of your overall hair. It's not like you have patches of thinness and thickness throughout the length. Hair is constantly replacing and growing (individual strands) to meet its overall length. You're never bald because of shorter hairs, or having a shorter length somewhere along the way....unless you cut it.

heidi w.

ktani
December 18th, 2010, 01:23 PM
So, how does your body know when to release the egg at mensus and its cycles?

Not the same thing at all.

Inside the folicle, hair is determined by a number of processes, including genetics.

Outside the folicle, it is on its own. My body does not know how long my nails are either.

The human body has no idea if hair is cut, burned or injured, unless the scalp is affected, and that is another story altogether.

http://kidshealth.org/parent/general/body_basics/skin_hair_nails.html#
"Hair grows by forming new cells at the base of the root. These cells multiply to form a rod of tissue in the skin. The rods of cells move upward through the skin as new cells form beneath them. As they move up, they're cut off from their supply of nourishment and start to form a hard protein called keratin in a process called keratinization. As this process occurs, the hair cells die. The dead cells and keratin form the shaft of the hair."

http://kidshealth.org/parent/kh_misc/about.html
"our editorial staff communicates complex medical information in language that readers can understand and use. And all KidsHealth articles, animations, games, and other content go through a rigorous medical review by pediatricians and other medical experts. Ongoing, scheduled medical reviews ensure the information is as up-to-date as possible."

heidi w.
December 18th, 2010, 01:39 PM
Um, the hair is alive INSIDE the follicle and that is what's directing the show in terms of hair growth.....and yes, your genetics.

heidi w.

ktani
December 18th, 2010, 01:43 PM
Um, the hair is alive INSIDE the follicle and that is what's directing the show in terms of hair growth.....and yes, your genetics.

heidi w.

I did not say that it wasn't. It is dead outside the folicle with no way to communicate its length to the folicle.

heidi w.
December 18th, 2010, 01:45 PM
I'm not really interested in arguing this thing. My goal was to kind of explain the GM philosophy. This is a major point of contention, historically, in all the hair care boards I've visited. People isolate GMs thing about hair one length as a thing about hair one length, and why no bangs, isolated yet again. The idea is about equalization between extremes, as I explained.

Folks are still free to poo-poo, argue, wonder, etc. I'm just trying to put it in a frame and context for some degree of clarity.

I am pretty sure that when your hair grows in, you don't have patches that are bald, or patches that are thin because hair regrowth hasn't met the overall length your hair is at. I am pretty sure that rather consistently day in day out, year in year out, your length is somewhat constant despite this cycling of phases of hair growth. That's what I meant...hair grows out, strand by strand, follicle direction by follicle direction (genetics, yes) to an overall length you've allowed your hair to grow to.

Right, hair doesn't know when it's cut.

GMs book explained he did some thing with a dog, shaving off one hind quarter and not the other, and the side with the hair length shortened a bit over time to kind of "equalize" or "balance" to the side with really short hair. His other 'evidence' was the record of The Sutherland Sisters, 7 sisters all with long hair. Then at some point in their glorious career, they were mostly, save one, encouraged to get the fashionable curled bangs....and the hair length of the sister's overall apparently shrank over time, meaning in his way, that things tried to balance out between extremes, when the hair replaced, over time.

I hope this helps explain my meaning. If it doesn't make sense, then I'm sorry, but that's the best I can do to explain what I mean.

heidi w.

heidi w.
December 18th, 2010, 01:50 PM
I did not say that it wasn't. It is dead outside the folicle with no way to communicate its length to the folicle.

I get you. I know hair is dead outside the head's follicle. But the follicle has it encoded the length is another way of saying it.

My point is that you stated oh, all this stuff is happening on the outside of the hair, where it's dead. My point is in agreement with you both ways -- but the follicle and one's genetics for length is encoded in the hair follicle, the alive part. I am pretty sure your hair, as a fair example, like most people's hair, when replacing (which is determined by the hair follicle part) is growing, generally, to the full length and relatively rapidly in fact (when replacing).

You want to argue follicle. I agree with you. You want to argue outside the head. I agree with that too.

GMs idea is that all the follicles taken as a whole are encoded with the same genetic info overall, and that hair will grow its longest when all is relatively the same length. His issue is the extremes of length, example being between bangs and very long tresses on the same head. I actually think he has a point although I've never had the luxury of a laboratory.

You're allowed your opinion. You're allowed to disagree with how I'm stating it. But I did my best to relay his theory.

heidi w.

getoffmyskittle
December 18th, 2010, 01:54 PM
Heidi, I have a question for you. If the benefit of brushing comes from the scalp stimulation, couldn't you get the same effect with scalp massage instead?

ktani
December 18th, 2010, 01:54 PM
I'm not really interested in arguing this thing. My goal was to kind of explain the GM philosophy. This is a major point of contention, historically, in all the hair care boards I've visited. People isolate GMs thing about hair one length as a thing about hair one length, and why no bangs, isolated yet again. The idea is about equalization between extremes, as I explained.

Folks are still free to poo-poo, argue, wonder, etc. I'm just trying to put it in a frame and context for some degree of clarity.

I am pretty sure that when your hair grows in, you don't have patches that are bald, or patches that are thin because hair regrowth hasn't met the overall length your hair is at. I am pretty sure that rather consistently day in day out, year in year out, your length is somewhat constant despite this cycling of phases of hair growth. That's what I meant...hair grows out, strand by strand, follicle direction by follicle direction (genetics, yes) to an overall length you've allowed your hair to grow to.

Right, hair doesn't know when it's cut.

GMs book explained he did some thing with a dog, shaving off one hind quarter and not the other, and the side with the hair length shortened a bit over time to kind of "equalize" or "balance" to the side with really short hair. His other 'evidence' was the record of The Sutherland Sisters, 7 sisters all with long hair. Then at some point in their glorious career, they were mostly, save one, encouraged to get the fashionable curled bangs....and the hair length of the sister's overall apparently shrank over time, meaning in his way, that things tried to balance out between extremes, when the hair replaced, over time.

I hope this helps explain my meaning. If it doesn't make sense, then I'm sorry, but that's the best I can do to explain what I mean.

heidi w.

I think that you did a great job of explaining his philosophy in context on all of the other issues. I agree that it is unfair to take things out of context.

His equalizing theory may be missing something he left out in explanation.

Hair growth can be affected by many things, from illness to diet to genetics and more.

heidi w.
December 18th, 2010, 01:57 PM
Heidi, I have a question for you. If the benefit of brushing comes from the scalp stimulation, couldn't you get the same effect with scalp massage instead?

There's another long hair care system I'm aware of that precisely uses that method, massaging, for stimulation......

heidi w.

heidi w.
December 18th, 2010, 01:58 PM
I think that you did a great job of explaining his philosophy in context on all of the other issues. I agree that it is unfair to take things out of context.

His equalizing theory may be missing something he left out in explanation.

Hair growth can be affected by many things, from illness to diet to genetics and more.

Correct about the illness, diet, genetics point. In fact, the first chapter in his book is possibly one of his longest: nutrition, complete with his salad and dressing recipe.

I found his book to not offer the best in terms of clarity. I had to kind of think my way through as to what he was really driving at. If he had had me as an editor, I would have organized his book differently and suggested in about 2 places more clarity. I would have angered him, I'm sure.

heidi w.

Tangles
December 18th, 2010, 02:07 PM
I do think my hair at least SEEMS thinner and more fragile when it's layered, but that might be because I've had some bad haircuts. I like all-one-length styles better in theory, but my face shape is really more flattered by some shorter layers that frame my face; I'm willing to have thinner ends if that's the price I must pay.

ktani
December 18th, 2010, 02:14 PM
I get you. I know hair is dead outside the head's follicle. But the follicle has it encoded the length is another way of saying it.

My point is that you stated oh, all this stuff is happening on the outside of the hair, where it's dead. My point is in agreement with you both ways -- but the follicle and one's genetics for length is encoded in the hair follicle, the alive part. I am pretty sure your hair, as a fair example, like most people's hair, when replacing (which is determined by the hair follicle part) is growing, generally, to the full length and relatively rapidly in fact (when replacing).

You want to argue follicle. I agree with you. You want to argue outside the head. I agree with that too.

GMs idea is that all the follicles taken as a whole are encoded with the same genetic info overall, and that hair will grow its longest when all is relatively the same length. His issue is the extremes of length, example being between bangs and very long tresses on the same head. I actually think he has a point although I've never had the luxury of a laboratory.

You're allowed your opinion. You're allowed to disagree with how I'm stating it. But I did my best to relay his theory.

heidi w.

I do not think that it is you. I think that there are information gaps that he either chose not to include or that may have been edited, from the sound of it.

As for the same overall genetic coding, that does not account for hairline short hair variations that many people have, including me.

I actually think from what you have written, that the book was intended to be for a certain market, and that the "other details" which may have possibly clarified certain things were considered unneccessary.

Elenna
December 18th, 2010, 02:21 PM
Igor, well sebum is a waxy natural by-product of the scalp and lubricates the hair or fur. Fur (usually short) is protection from the environment & weather.

So long hair care makes sense. As a part of it, brushing hair, not just to distribute sebum, but as a scalp exercise makes even a lot more sense. Although, personally I'd rather use oils and brush oils. Possibly damage is from brushing (don't shoot me) on untangled hair or is from not being careful enough while brushing. All the myriad hair care methods on this forum do have merit. Lots of merit! Here is my take on brushing hair, any exercise that a person does, does have an accumulative effect on the fitness of the body, so why not brushing (and massage) for the scalp to improve hair growth & retention. Maybe this is the difference between average hair growth and super-hair growth. It is like the difference between an average pine tree & the Redwoods (exaggerating a bit here).

While there are commonalities in hair care, there is NO one route to very long hair, but many different methods. I'm willing to try different methods to get good results. HeidiW's explanation on the GM system mostly makes sense, not everything!

MissCharizard
December 18th, 2010, 02:30 PM
Over brushing definitely causes mechanical damage so I say no to the 100 brushes statement.

ktani
December 18th, 2010, 02:36 PM
Over brushing definitely causes mechanical damage so I say no to the 100 brushes statement.

I think the point both Heidi and Madora made very well is that it is not about brushing itself. It is how the brushing is done and the brush used to do it with.

misstwist
December 18th, 2010, 02:43 PM
I've been doing as much reading on Dr. GM's system as I can find on the net and thinking about this a great deal recently. I had even contemplated starting a thread asking longtime GM system users about their experiences.

What I have found is that the daily brushing makes an incredible difference in how my hair looks and feels and behaves.

I finger comb to detangle, then comb to detangle, then brush with my Denman to finish detangling and aligning the hairs. Then carefully lean forward and brush with the BBB, following each stroke with my hand to reduce static. That's very much like blouse brushing or brushing over the hand as it's used to brush out a curl set. I'm up to 50 strokes.

This leaves my hair incredibly shiny and smooth and much more resistant to tangles. I do get a bit of fuzzing depending on the humidity but I solve that by wetting my hands and running them over my hair or adding a bit of aloe and oil and doing the same.

I was a bit dubious about this to begin with because my hair does tangle easily and it seemed to me that brushing it upside down then standing up again was a recipe for tangle disaster.

I'm entirely willing to experiment, though, and I found good instructions from Madora (I think, in your blog or album) on how to properly manage bringing the hair forward and back up again.

I'm still working on setting my hair on magnetic rollers with the correct tension and drying under a hood for shine and bounce. It's mainly the tension I'm having problems with. I find that I get some fuzz and not much shine if I set the hair but don't dry under the hood. If I use the hood my hair is smooth and shiny.

I would appreciate further guidance on the technique used with the deep treatment.

Somewhere I had gotten the idea that the deep treatment was a leave-in that was applied before the hair is rolled onto magnetic rollers and dried. But from what HeidiW said and the name "12 minute deep conditioner," or something like that, it seems more to be a heat activated treatment that is then rinsed out before the hair is set. I suppose both could be true.

It looks as though we are planning a work trip to North Carolina next fall. I'm going to route the trip through Ohio so I can go to Rapunzel's or Enchantress.

Thanks so much to the long-time long hairs who have experience with this system and are willing to share their knowledge.

sweet*things
December 18th, 2010, 03:08 PM
You definitely need to wash out the 12 minute conditioner, it's similar in consistency to Eucerin cream.

This thread is making me want to reconsider brushing. Last time I had Tailbone length hair I was brushing with a BBB and mostly following the GM method. This time I'm primarily combing and only occasionally brushing with a Tangle Teaser and overall I don't think my hair is a pretty as it was last time.

Buddaphlyy
December 18th, 2010, 03:16 PM
I could see how his technique would be helpful to type 1 and 2s looking for one length hair. But most curlies and especially not any type 4s would find much help in his book. He even said most most couldn't/shouldn't even grow their hair long. So yeah, since that is my goal, I didn't find anything in his book for me (or nothing I couldn't get from other books or hair boards).

The only thing I liked was his recipe for the salad.

jaine
December 18th, 2010, 03:43 PM
If each follicle has a genetically encoded length that is approximately the same as other follicles on the same head, then at terminal length you would have...layers!! :) because the top of your head is higher than the sides or nape.

virgo75
December 18th, 2010, 04:43 PM
The use of a Boar Bristle Brush includes that for most, it does not penetrate the hair's thickness, depth (inward). Instead it glides along the surface of the hair and one brushes the topside and underside (even if leaning forward) separately. The very top of the head and front is not directly brushed as many are taught to do with a brush from youth.....one is leaning foward and therefore never really touches overly the very top of the head......His idea is to brush in the morning and give the hair volume and get the blood flowing into the vessels. (Remember, hair follicles and whatever is going on under the scalp skin, in terms of the body's hierarchy, is the last thing.....heart, lungs, arms, legs....they all get attention first)

ETA: for clarity, his idea is to brush from the nape of the neck.....

If one is pressing in to the hair's thickness with a BBB as they might with a regular brush or comb, then yes, you're going to having pulling and more hair loss.

heidi w.


I'm really curious about the brushing(as everyone else seems to be :p).

I'm wondering if there's ever a time where you separate your hair and brush the 'inside' of your hair instead of just the top and underside when bent over?

I also wonder if anyone with curly hair has followed this philosophy or brushed their hair with a boar bristle brush consistantly and gotten good results?

I've brushed with a BBB intermittently and LOVED how silky, shiny, smooth, frizz free, and just amazing the first 2-3 inches of hair from my scalp looks when I do it. :crush:

However, I've also noticed broken hairs off of the last inch down where curls would have formed but I guess were broken off. :( Is there some way to get the same benefit that I get on my scalp down the length of my hair(currently APL)?

I also remember my mother -who has 1b or so- hair used to brush upside down for as many strokes as she felt like it and her hair was always past classic when I was growing up. :)

Xandergrammy
December 19th, 2010, 10:12 AM
Just a quickie to say that I tried the brushing last night with my MP BB brush and it felt heavenly and I didn't see any breakage. My hair had been completely detangled and the brush just kind of glided through my hair. I'll be doing it again to see if I notice any difference.

soapstone
December 19th, 2010, 10:27 AM
I have a kent bbb and love to use it to tidy up fly aways.

jojo
December 19th, 2010, 03:09 PM
Thank you Heidi I also believe in his theory, the body needs a Equilibrium its how it works and I also believe that hair does realise when hair has been deliberately made shorter (not terminal shorter lengths, these are already at there genetic length) and the hair compensates by slowing other hairs down so the shorter hairs catch up.

My hair in 2005 was cut in a short multi layered style, I never once had my layers cut ever. I dusted the length from time to time but never the layers, now my length only sped up once my layers had caught up with the length, now this has occurred I am gaining length.

So I believe in his theories and I would love the chance to visit one of his salons.

andrea1982
December 19th, 2010, 03:36 PM
My hair absoloutly hates being brushed upside down. It gets fluffy, frizzy, and tangles. If I brush with my BBB while upright though, I get wonderful shine and it seems to diminish frizz. I wonder why this is? What am I doing wrong?

Clarisse
December 20th, 2010, 02:24 AM
The thing about parting to the right rather than the left to exercise the hair follicles SOUNDS like total bunk, but I guess I can't be certain -- I have no idea whether follicles grow 'left to right' although it sounds unlikely (and what does that mean exactly? aren't follicles round?).

The follicle has a direction - all follicles have. At least on my forehead, I have some very short hairs right at the hairline. If I brush my hand from right to left, then from left to right, I can feel that they grow from left to right. Brushing my hair from left to right feels smooth. Doing the opposite ”catches” my hair.

I don’t believe that hair follicles can know what length they are, as hair is dead protein, but blunt-cut hair is probably less prone to damage. If you have layers, split ends will start at many different lengths. If you have bangs, the rest of the hair will be less thick. Thick hair can ”take” more damage before it gets very thin at the ends.

I’d like to have his book, even though I don’t believe in all that he says

Igor
December 20th, 2010, 02:34 AM
My hair absoloutly hates being brushed upside down. It gets fluffy, frizzy, and tangles. If I brush with my BBB while upright though, I get wonderful shine and it seems to diminish frizz. I wonder why this is? What am I doing wrong?
Doesn’t brushing upside down brush against the natural direction of those tiny little “fish scales” on the cuticula?

thirstylocks
December 20th, 2010, 02:34 AM
how much is a visit to his salon?

Clarisse
December 20th, 2010, 03:04 AM
Doesn’t brushing upside down brush against the natural direction of those tiny little “fish scales” on the cuticula?

I think that by ”upside down” he means bending in the waist and having your head upside down to promote blood flow to the scalp, while brushing in the right direction on the hair.

freckles
December 20th, 2010, 04:33 AM
The follicle has a direction - all follicles have. At least on my forehead, I have some very short hairs right at the hairline. If I brush my hand from right to left, then from left to right, I can feel that they grow from left to right. Brushing my hair from left to right feels smooth. Doing the opposite ”catches” my hair.

I don’t believe that hair follicles can know what length they are, as hair is dead protein, but blunt-cut hair is probably less prone to damage. If you have layers, split ends will start at many different lengths. If you have bangs, the rest of the hair will be less thick. Thick hair can ”take” more damage before it gets very thin at the ends.

I’d like to have his book, even though I don’t believe in all that he says

by 'direction', do you mean the direction the hair lies in naturally? Like when shaving, you're supposed to go 'with the grain', not against it? I can't feel anything different when brushing my hand over my scalp personally, but yeah, I just remembered how leg hair et al grow in a particular direction.

heidi w.
December 20th, 2010, 08:04 AM
My hair absoloutly hates being brushed upside down. It gets fluffy, frizzy, and tangles. If I brush with my BBB while upright though, I get wonderful shine and it seems to diminish frizz. I wonder why this is? What am I doing wrong?

Nothing. I also have photos of GM BBBing hair when the model was upright too.

If you're flopping your hair over, that may be part of the issue? The system has a specific way of getting the hair in front of you, and it isn't just bending over and flipping the hair. Lean to the side, draw it forward gently. Also when you downstroke, every stroke is followed with the palm of the hand to calm any flyawayness.

Longer hair that is poofy, it's claimed, becomes less so when even longer length because length adds weight. Remember, GMs system involves various treatments and may effect hair that tends to poof or frizz. This is something I don't know for sure about.
heidi w.

heidi w.
December 20th, 2010, 08:07 AM
how much is a visit to his salon?

I went and only had time for a nice trim at the salon in NYC.
I think I dropped around 60 for the service, and I gave a huge tip, plus I bought some nice hair ornaments.

I was just so thrilled to be there and chat and meet Maria.....to see the salon for myself. I spent a lot of time, and probably in the time I spent could have ended up doing the full treatment.

I will say you need to bring a block of time, perhaps as much as 4 hours. There's nothing overly fast about their process. So if you have trouble sitting still, you might have trouble.

They are into that personal attention.

They did this microtrim, that is, culling through the hair to remove splits throughout the length. They did that actually for not very long. I was surprised about that because I have a lot of hair.

heidi w.

heidi w.
December 20th, 2010, 08:11 AM
I could see how his technique would be helpful to type 1 and 2s looking for one length hair. But most curlies and especially not any type 4s would find much help in his book. He even said most most couldn't/shouldn't even grow their hair long. So yeah, since that is my goal, I didn't find anything in his book for me (or nothing I couldn't get from other books or hair boards).

The only thing I liked was his recipe for the salad.

I am going to be as polite as I know how in saying this. All the photos I saw, and ever saw with GM in the mix, are all Caucasian hair. I think I recall one or so Asian hair types. But definitely no Black women. So, yeah, this hair type is going to have troubles with his technique. He was a man from Europe, and apparently he stuck very much with his European roots in some of his thoughts.

heidi w.

heidi w.
December 20th, 2010, 08:16 AM
If each follicle has a genetically encoded length that is approximately the same as other follicles on the same head, then at terminal length you would have...layers!! :) because the top of your head is higher than the sides or nape.

Actually, in a sense we do.

If you look at most people's hair from right to left in the back, the sides definitely grow shorter than the center at the back of the head.

I don't know how to explain this well. PLUS I'm not a scientist, but most of my reading indicates a kind of "knowing".....for me, it kind of makes sense based on some of my biology classes. But if it doesn't for others, then they're free to refute and believe what they want.

Hair, for most, generally grows around the same length overall, unless it's otherwise cut. I'm pretty sure most people have this experience. The hair grows, and it tends, if allowed, to be the general overall length of all the other hairs at least in appearance -- a general 'in the zone' length.....even an Afro, for example.

I would dearly love to have a lab and figure some of this out to explain it better or the mechanism, but alas, I'm broke. I feel safe in suggesting that there's still much about the human body that we do not know. Because we do know know, this means we have to sometimes go empirically, or what the behavior is, that kind of thing. Maybe in the future, head hair will be much better understood. In my opinion, despite various headway (no pun intended), there's still a lot we don't know.

heidi w.

Clarisse
December 20th, 2010, 08:37 AM
Freckles: yes, I believe it’s just like leg hair. But you need to have some short hairs to feel it - leg hair and fuzzies are short, so that you can feel the direction it grows in.

Superfine
December 20th, 2010, 11:28 AM
Maybe someone addressed this & I missed it. I'd like to try GM type products (I'm not willing to pay the big price for the real deal). Breck cream rinse was mentioned earlier. Don't know if it is even made anymore. Do any of you know of current, inexpensive shampoos & cream rinses? Can you somehow combine a conditioner & shampoo to make a cream shampoo? How about a cream rinse - how is it different from conditioner? Will all these work for fine, only slightly wavy, not too thick hair? I do plan to start the head down brushing. I think it helped years ago & I had forgotten.

berr
December 20th, 2010, 11:29 AM
What do you all think about Dr. George Michael's philosophy that hair is at its strongest all one length with no bangs?

What do you think about his thoughts on brushing 100 times a day?

I can't imagine having no bangs...my forehead is way too wide and high...I would feel naked!

I think it's BS. As a child. (and I'm no spring chicken) things came in 100's. Brush your hair 100 strokes, chew your food 100 times, brush your teeth 100 strokes. Basically, do a thorough job.

I've not used GM products, but I'm sure that they are very nice or his salon wouldn't have commanded the prices to stay alive on madison ave. I'm curious about the length of the appointments and if we had that much time per day to invest into a hair obsession that perhaps our hair would be just as nice?

ddiana1979
December 20th, 2010, 12:17 PM
I'd like to be able to get a copy of his book w/out paying an exorbitant price for it.

I think with regards to the bangs issue, he may simply be saying that the tensile strength of the total sum of your hair is higher. This is logically true. . . if you have 100,000 strands of hair that are all the same length, your total hair strength will be higher than that of someone who has bangs (let's guesstimate that 10,000 strands are taken up by the bangs.) I could be taking this totally out of context, as I have unfortunately not read his books. I have bangs though, because I have a high forehead & look severe without them.

As far as the 100 strokes with a BBB goes, I've never counted, but I'm fairly certain that I probably brush with nearly that many strokes throughout the day. I detangle with a wide toothed comb, and then brush my hair with a BBB whenever it starts to get flyaway. My BBB is very soft (it definitely doesn't penetrate all the layers of my hair), & I don't think it's damaging my hair, as I don't get lots of strands wrapped up in it like I did when I was using a synthetic brush. Just my opinion though. Also, I'm a 1a/b, so my hair is better suited to BBB than people with curly or even very wavy hair.

Madora
December 20th, 2010, 12:49 PM
@Berr

The length of appointments at the George Michael Salon (NYC) depends on several things:

length of hair
Whether or not your're having a full treatment or just a trim

If you're having the full treatment, it can take several hours.

Full treatment consists of:

1 Shampoo
2 Deep Heat Treatment
Your hair is slathered with a thick, rich creme like
substance, arranged in a sort of "cap" around your
head. It is topped with a heating cap. You then sit
under the heating cap for an hour.
3 At the end of the hour your hair is thoroughly rinsed, then combed out.
4 Hair is then sectioned onto very large rollers. You are then put under a hair dryer and the timer is set.

Once your hair is fully dry (on my thick, long hair it took 2 1/2 hours), the rollers are removed and the final touch is the GM strand twist split end removal technique. Your hair is then cut in a very slight U hemline..and voila, your're done. The results are spectacular and well worth the price.

brunetka
December 20th, 2010, 01:11 PM
I can see no logical/biological reason for bangs or layers affecting hair growth or the strength of individual hairs (the overall tensile strength decreases, of course, if you are pulling on fewer hairs). The hair follicle is the only living portion of your hair and it continually produces hair in accordance to it's cycle (anagen, catogen, telogen). Terminal hair length is determined by how long the follicles stay in anagen phase, which is in turn determined by genetics, hormone levels, and general nutrition/health. Some forms of hypertrichosis can be caused by abnormal lengthening of the anagen phase and some types of hypotrichosis/alopecia can be caused by abnormal shortening of anagen phase. All hair outside the follicle is dead, meaning that no cellular metabolism or biochemical activity of any kind goes on inside it. There is no communication that goes on between the hair follicle and the dead hair, as all normal cell components that would mediate such communication (vesicular trafficking proteins, cytoskeletal components, signaling molecules, etc.) are not present in the hair length. As far as I know (and I say this as a biology PhD who studies cell communication, though not in hair cells specifically) your follicles have no way to know when their own hairs or hairs on other parts of the scalp are cut.

I also have to disagree with the comments about the aesthetics of bangs because it's a huge generalization of the "all adult women look better with hair that is ___ " type. I personally look better with bangs. I have a high forehead, thin brows (which make the forehead look even higher), and a hairline that's always full of tiny baby hairs that stick out in all directions and never grow very long. Bangs cover up all these issues and draw attention to my face/eyes instead of my high forehead.

thirstylocks
December 20th, 2010, 01:13 PM
Madora, that whole process would be 60 bucks? To me, that is worth it considering the amount of money I pay for other conditioning treatments. But my hair isn't really long - its BSL and some of my layers are very short. Is it worth me going?

Madora
December 20th, 2010, 01:43 PM
No, ThirstyLocks, the entire treatment would probably be over $150.00..perhaps even more now. I paid roughly $130.00 back in 1982 (not including tips for everyone who worked on my hair).

misstwist
December 20th, 2010, 01:59 PM
The website for one of the GM salons in Ohio has current prices listed. That would be either Enchantress or Rapunzel's. Don't know if the Madora site has current prices listed.

RoseRed27
December 20th, 2010, 09:34 PM
I am going to be as polite as I know how in saying this. All the photos I saw, and ever saw with GM in the mix, are all Caucasian hair. I think I recall one or so Asian hair types. But definitely no Black women. So, yeah, this hair type is going to have troubles with his technique. He was a man from Europe, and apparently he stuck very much with his European roots in some of his thoughts.

heidi w.

Hmm. I was actually reading your responses and found nothing I, as a type 3/4 could not do. :confused: I don't think if he preferred working with straight or wavy hair that means the entirety of his technique is off limits to those with curly hair. My hair isn't curly 100%of the time and even when it is, I love running a brush through my hair. I think strand strength and brush fibers have more to do with it than hair texture or race. (Not that everyone with curly hair is black! Obviously! :p)

I liked reading your responses and attempts to dispel some of the misunderstanding. I appreciated the care that the salons seem to lavish on their clients. I think the philosophy can translate to curlies and whurlies too. ^__^ So many other techniques have been tweaked or modified for those with thick/fine/wavy/dark/light/weak/hennaed/dyed/whatever hair, so I don't think it's impossible for a curlie to benefit, even a little from his technique. :)

Buddaphlyy
December 21st, 2010, 08:42 AM
I am going to be as polite as I know how in saying this. All the photos I saw, and ever saw with GM in the mix, are all Caucasian hair. I think I recall one or so Asian hair types. But definitely no Black women. So, yeah, this hair type is going to have troubles with his technique. He was a man from Europe, and apparently he stuck very much with his European roots in some of his thoughts.

heidi w.

No need to be "polite". I read the book and saw the pictures also. I never said no Black woman couldn't find any benefit from his philosophy. Just that his explicit explanation that black hair (or most curly hair in general) can't/shouldn't be grown long is against everything I know and can (or have seen others) achieve.

I'm very happy that you have had success using his methods/philosophy, I really am. But I am not one who misunderstood him or your explanations in the thread. I did my own research and came to the conclusion that this probably would not work for ME or those with similar hair type as me. People may do as they like, but my opinion of him and his technique still stands.

GrowingGlory
December 21st, 2010, 11:28 AM
I've found his brushing and washing techniques extremely helpful in maintaining healthy hair at any length. But they really shine when my hair is past MBL and needs that extra bit of TLC to maintain a thick, healthy hem. I don't count brush strokes but might well reach his recommended 100/day. His system has worked brilliantly for me! (can't afford salon visits, though).

RoseRed27
December 21st, 2010, 02:38 PM
No need to be "polite". I read the book and saw the pictures also. I never said no Black woman couldn't find any benefit from his philosophy. Just that his explicit explanation that black hair (or most curly hair in general) can't/shouldn't be grown long is against everything I know and can (or have seen others) achieve.

I'm very happy that you have had success using his methods/philosophy, I really am. But I am not one who misunderstood him or your explanations in the thread. I did my own research and came to the conclusion that this probably would not work for ME or those with similar hair type as me. People may do as they like, but my opinion of him and his technique still stands.

:confused: :(:rolleyes: Whaaa? I don't have his book. Do you remember if he stated the reason for this? Is it just his opinion? (Well obviously, but I mean, did he give any reason at all?) Maybe because curly hair might be more prone to damage? But I think a stylist as capable as he seems to be can help any hair, right? Maybe he was just unfamiliar with curly hair. Even so, I think that's a pretty irresponsible philosophy. I like the care he seemed to give hair, and if that care was only meant for hair he found aesthetically pleasing, that's a shame. But oh well. If I listened to the "experts" for everything I would still believe curly/kinky hair should be fried straight at every opportunity and that hair that touched my shoulders was a pipe dream. To them I say, "Two more inches till waist length!" :D

ddiana1979
December 21st, 2010, 02:57 PM
:confused: :(:rolleyes: Whaaa? I don't have his book. Do you remember if he stated the reason for this? Is it just his opinion? (Well obviously, but I mean, did he give any reason at all?) Maybe because curly hair might be more prone to damage? But I think a stylist as capable as he seems to be can help any hair, right? Maybe he was just unfamiliar with curly hair. Even so, I think that's a pretty irresponsible philosophy. I like the care he seemed to give hair, and if that care was only meant for hair he found aesthetically pleasing, that's a shame. But oh well. If I listened to the "experts" for everything I would still believe curly/kinky hair should be fried straight at every opportunity and that hair that touched my shoulders was a pipe dream. To them I say, "Two more inches till waist length!" :D

I think most stylists have a preference of the type of hair they like to work with. I just found out that the stylist I've been going to for nearly 10 years prefers to work with curly hair (3c - 4)! My hair is extremely straight, but he still does an excellent job on my hair, IMO. There are many books out that are specific to hair types, I've noticed. The Curly Girl book, etc. His book was written in 1981 (I hope I got that right). I don't keep up with hair trends much, but I know a lot of caucasian women with straight hair were perming their hair then, & I'm sure many people with curly or kinky hair were using straighteners & relaxers. I haven't read the book, but I doubt he was intentionally being prejudiced or racist. He probably just thought straight hair was easier to work with using his methods. I can't imagine how long the book would have to be if he designed a method for all 4 hair types. Just my $0.02. I hope I haven't offended anyone.

RoseRed27
December 21st, 2010, 06:35 PM
I think most stylists have a preference of the type of hair they like to work with. I just found out that the stylist I've been going to for nearly 10 years prefers to work with curly hair (3c - 4)! My hair is extremely straight, but he still does an excellent job on my hair, IMO. There are many books out that are specific to hair types, I've noticed. The Curly Girl book, etc. His book was written in 1981 (I hope I got that right). I don't keep up with hair trends much, but I know a lot of caucasian women with straight hair were perming their hair then, & I'm sure many people with curly or kinky hair were using straighteners & relaxers. I haven't read the book, but I doubt he was intentionally being prejudiced or racist. He probably just thought straight hair was easier to work with using his methods. I can't imagine how long the book would have to be if he designed a method for all 4 hair types. Just my $0.02. I hope I haven't offended anyone.

Offended? You have no idea how much your post offended me! I can hardly see straight! :mad: Just kidding! :p Not offended. :) I don't think having a preference is what is upsetting. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. But to say that other hair types shouldn't grow long, is going a little far. I don't care if a stylist prefers to work with shoulder length jet black hair, but if I walk in with bsl red waves, he/she should be able to accommodate me. You said your stylists prefers curly hair but does a great job with your straight hair. That's what I'm talking about.

And it's fine for a stylist or salon to specialize in one hair type, but you can do that without dismissing a whole group of people. I certainly didn't think there'd be a plethora of type 3s and 4s in his book. Maybe I'd hope for one curly. :p With most things I don't expect to see someone with my hair or skin or fashion sense or taste in German music or love for guinea pigs or whatever! ^__^ I don't even expect not to see someone like me. I'm not thinking "Well there'd better be another black college age guinea pig lover or I'm leaving!" :D I'm not always looking for something geared towards me and me alone. But what I certainly don't expect is someone going out of their way to tell me I'm not welcome...because my hair is curly?

What if a hair stylist who works to help curly hair grow longer said that those with straight hair shouldn't or couldn't grow to long lengths? We'd all say it was :bs:! I'm sure Ayurveda haircare practices weren't designed for blonds, but I don't think many practitioners would say it's not for blonds or that blonds shouldn't do it. There may be some tweaking, like avoiding henna in favor of cassia to keep one's color. I'm sure many people here modified certain philosophies or rules to suit their own needs. I don't think everyone who likes his philosophy does everything he wrote and shuns all other advice. What if a type 1 couldn't use a specific brush or found that the brushing was breaking their ends? They'd modify too.

I'm not saying he needed to have a method designed for all hair types, I'm just asking why he says curlies shouldn't grow. If he just didn't want to work with curly hair--that's fine. (somedays I don't feel like it either!) But I don't think that gives him the right to say curlies shouldn't/couldn't grow long. It's his opinion, yes, but so is the advice of other stylists we on LHC laugh at or disagree with. I don't think anyone here thinks that curlies should stay short. Right? :patrol:Buddaphyy stated that he specifically said black hair and curlies in general. I'm just saying "Why does he think that? It sounds unfair!" and wanted clarification. (If there was any ;))

joiekimochi
December 21st, 2010, 07:59 PM
Well most conventional hair wisdom coming from so-called style gurus has decreed that fine thin hair should never be longer than shoulder-length, and that short petite women should not have long hair, but there are so many real-life examples of gorgeous long finehairs and petite longhairs. I suppose it's just opinion.

eilz90
December 22nd, 2010, 03:30 AM
I started the upside down brushing technique the other day with a normal brush an oh my what a buzz i got from it! Better than any head massage. However, I tried the same technique with a bore bristle brush and didn't get anywhere near the same buzzing feeling in my head.

Is there a specific reason its a bb brush and not a regular brush?

Madora
December 22nd, 2010, 07:25 AM
@eilz90, what is a "normal" brush?

The 100% pure boar bristle brush is best for your hair because the bristles are the closest to the hair structure itself, according to Dr. George Michael, famed long hair expert.

Depending on the stiffness of the bristles (and your hair's thickness), you may not be able to penetrate the hair all the way down to the scalp.

Mr. Michael advocated brushing your hair while you are bent at the waist and your hair is hanging in front of you, like a curtain. Start at the nape and slowly brush down to the ends. Follow each swipe of your brush with the palm of your other hand to cut down on static.

Regular use of the boar bristle brush helps stimulate the hair follicles, distributes the natural sebum down your strands, removes dead cells and leaves your hair soft and shiney (over time).

ddiana1979
December 22nd, 2010, 07:35 AM
If "normal brush" = synthetic brush, I think there's too much risk for damaging hair, especially when doing 100 strokes. I used to use a brush with plastic (or possibly acrylic?) bristles, and it was a nightmare for my hair. Static & breakage.

I agree with Madora. The BBB is great for people who have 1 or 2 type hair, and they tend to be very gentle. Mine is so soft it doesn't penetrate all layers (I don't like the stiff ones). I have to brush the underside the way GM recommended, then flip back over, and brush the top. BBB are less likely to introduce static into the hair too. . . especially if you follow the brush with the palm of your hand as you are brushing. Makes my hair very shiny without adding any product.

Madora
December 22nd, 2010, 08:14 AM
Yes! Nylon brushes might feel terrific on your scalp..but your hair will suffer! I knew someone who used nylon..and her hair was ruined by broken hairs all over her head.

Oz
December 22nd, 2010, 08:30 AM
hair. like everything else.. has strength in numbers... numbers of strands.. like the difference between a thick rope and a piece of string.

and as for brushign 100 a day.. id say no no no.. what is the point in that? it surly just breaks and damages... only brush as little as is necessary to get tangles out.

Madora
December 22nd, 2010, 09:03 AM
I've been brushing 100 strokes a day for decades. My hair has not suffered.

angelthadiva
December 22nd, 2010, 09:21 AM
I don't know if it has as much to do with preference, but rather expertise in reference to AA hair. Even the best, most knowledgeable stylist doesn't know everything. GM's expertise is more or less geared for Caucasian hair types, because of his background or perhaps his knowledge base came from Caucasian hair types. His interest/expertise may have come as a result of a default. Unfortunately it is not that common to see long and natural AA hair. I do think it is possible, but it would require dedication and a lot of maintenance to achieve. Since AA hair is naturally curly a lot of processes would be required to make it a straight style...Which we know a high heat is damaging, and chemical process is also damaging. I think it would be a bit easier for a natural, healthy, curly style to be achieved, but again it would require dedication and a lot of maintenance to achieve.

excentricat
December 22nd, 2010, 09:31 AM
I think using the BBB on your hair upside down is genius. I had been basically unable to use mine because brushing from the top gave me such flat hair, and made it look like an oil slick for about 3 inches. Brushing while bent over has helped to actually distribute the sebum, and doesn't flatten everything out. I'm even going to start trying to stretch my washes again between the drier winter and this.

I should mention that I don't do a full hundred strokes though. Just enough that I feel I've done a good job on it.

Buddaphlyy
December 22nd, 2010, 09:44 AM
Whaaa? I don't have his book. Do you remember if he stated the reason for this? Is it just his opinion? (Well obviously, but I mean, did he give any reason at all?) Maybe because curly hair might be more prone to damage? But I think a stylist as capable as he seems to be can help any hair, right? Maybe he was just unfamiliar with curly hair. Even so, I think that's a pretty irresponsible philosophy. I like the care he seemed to give hair, and if that care was only meant for hair he found aesthetically pleasing, that's a shame. But oh well. If I listened to the "experts" for everything I would still believe curly/kinky hair should be fried straight at every opportunity and that hair that touched my shoulders was a pipe dream. To them I say, "Two more inches till waist length!"

I don't have the book right in front of me (as I borrowed it from the public library), but yes, it was mostly his opinion. He published his book in 1981, but had to have started writing it in the 70s (the heyday of big bodacious afros). But since he was not from America, maybe he was not exposed to this. I also think he was caught up in his definition as "long" only meaning vertical length. So since curly/kinky hair shrinks and hides length, he concluded that it doesn't grown long and probably can't. And I think that's where he got his opinion from.

I personally think he needed to do a follow up book about that topic and a whole lot of others in his book.

angelthadiva
December 22nd, 2010, 09:47 AM
I don't have the book right in front of me (as I borrowed it from the public library), but yes, it was mostly his opinion. He published his book in 1981, but had to have started writing it in the 70s (the heyday of big bodacious afros). But since he was not from America, maybe he was not exposed to this. I also think he was caught up in his definition as "long" only meaning vertical length. So since curly/kinky hair shrinks and hides length, he concluded that it doesn't grown long and probably can't. And I think that's where he got his opinion from.

I personally think he needed to do a follow up book about that topic and a whole lot of others in his book.

ITA with this! :thumbsup:

RoseRed27
December 22nd, 2010, 12:18 PM
I don't know if it has as much to do with preference, but rather expertise in reference to AA hair. Even the best, most knowledgeable stylist doesn't know everything. GM's expertise is more or less geared for Caucasian hair types, because of his background or perhaps his knowledge base came from Caucasian hair types. His interest/expertise may have come as a result of a default. Unfortunately it is not that common to see long and natural AA hair. I do think it is possible, but it would require dedication and a lot of maintenance to achieve. Since AA hair is naturally curly a lot of processes would be required to make it a straight style...Which we know a high heat is damaging, and chemical process is also damaging. I think it would be a bit easier for a natural, healthy, curly style to be achieved, but again it would require dedication and a lot of maintenance to achieve.

I understand what you're saying. But if he had little experience with curly hair, I don't think he should have gave his "expertise" on what it can and and can't do. And as Buddaphlyy said, curly hair (especially tight curls) hides length. :afro: I know of a lady on another forum whose daughter's hair is knee length when stretched but without much pulling or products, her hair appears to be above her waist!:shocked: The daughter appears to be 3c, but since her hair is so long the curls are stretched out and it's hard to tell.

You're right, generally it's not common to see long AA hair. But the reasons for that are wrapped up in history, not genetics (AA with waves have these issues too). Most people think AA hair cannot grow beyond shoulder length. I am not dreadfully offended by their ignorance, because I once shared in it. It just especially irks me when an expert says so. I even heard a fashion magazine said short hair (shoulder length and up) was a genetic trait among blacks! I guess I have to check another box when I fill out applications! :rolleyes:

I do not necessarily think curly hair requires more work, maybe different work. I think long hair of any length requires dedication. I just don't think that the extra work that some curlies require is insurmountable. But, oh well. I realize not every hair stylist is perfect. (I think we all know that by now!:D) I'm just a little peeved we have someone else saying curlies should stay short. :p

angelthadiva
December 22nd, 2010, 12:36 PM
I understand what you're saying. But if he had little experience with curly hair, I don't think he should have gave his "expertise" on what it can and and can't do. And as Buddaphlyy said, curly hair (especially tight curls) hides length. :afro: I know of a lady on another forum whose daughter's hair is knee length when stretched but without much pulling or products, her hair appears to be above her waist!:shocked: The daughter appears to be 3c, but since her hair is so long the curls are stretched out and it's hard to tell.

You're right, generally it's not common to see long AA hair. But the reasons for that are wrapped up in history, not genetics (AA with waves have these issues too). Most people think AA hair cannot grow beyond shoulder length. I am not dreadfully offended by their ignorance, because I once shared in it. It just especially irks me when an expert says so. I even heard a fashion magazine said short hair (shoulder length and up) was a genetic trait among blacks! I guess I have to check another box when I fill out applications! :rolleyes:

I do not necessarily think curly hair requires more work, maybe different work. I think long hair of any length requires dedication. I just don't think that the extra work that some curlies require is insurmountable. But, oh well. I realize not every hair stylist is perfect. (I think we all know that by now!:D) I'm just a little peeved we have someone else saying curlies should stay short. :p

ITA with everything you've said, and I think your comment about different work was more accurate than what I originally said. :flower:

I'm a wurly girl myself, DD9 is mixed and has beautiful, curly waist length hair. She used to be TBL, but she wanted her length cut back to waist for the new school year. My SILs and nieces who are AA have had long, beautiful hair w/o wigs or weaves at different times in their life. So, I do know that it is possible. One by one they have chopped for various reasons, but my little SIL kept her hair. It is just past shoulder length, but not quite to BSL. I tease her that she's trying to be like me ;) We have a good LOL about that!

Idun
May 13th, 2011, 10:47 AM
I have a few questions:

What I understand from readig this thread is that the clue to successfull BB brushing is to do it upside down. (I didn´t realize this before). Then don´t you brush the "inside" of the hair at all while standing in a bent position?

Do you want to reach the scalp with the bristles or not?

Why do you have to start with 10 strokes the first time and then increase the number the following times?

Is there anything one can do to soften the bristles somewhat?

I figured it was best to do the brushing before bed, so the sebum would sort of sink into the hair during the night and the appearance would be less greasy. But, from what I read GM recommends doing it in the morning. Why is that?

LoveMyLongHair
May 13th, 2011, 11:00 AM
Yes ma'am.....I would like to know these, also. It appears that I will have to go back and read the links provided by Roseated.....thank you for those. :flower:

I have done the BBB, albeit with an inexpensive one, but not upside down.

Please, can one of you ladies tell me what a huge difference it makes to have a BBB that is so costly? I have to budget so carefully for things, and I don't mind spending the *ouchies amount* if it truly reaps the reward.

Anyone, please? :prays:

Madora? I think you are our resident expert here? :grin: I always value your input. :flower:

HintOfMint
May 13th, 2011, 11:00 AM
Hogwash.

And this message is too short.

Idun
May 13th, 2011, 11:24 AM
HintofMint, what exactly are you responding to?

HintOfMint
May 13th, 2011, 11:42 AM
HintofMint, what exactly are you responding to?

Sorry, the very first post, specifically the one about hair being strongest all one length. I think he also expounded the idea that when hair is cut into layers or has bangs, somehow the follicles "know" what's up and try to even themselves out by adjusting hair growth, which we all know isn't true.

Sorry, should have specified.

Idun
May 13th, 2011, 11:52 AM
Yeah, I got to say I find those points rather peculiar too. But that doesn´t mean he can´t be right about other stuff.

LoveMyLongHair
May 13th, 2011, 12:06 PM
Agreed. I let my bangs grow out for a bit, and couldn't tell the difference....hated my forehead without them, so recut them in. My hair is growing well with no slowed growth on that point.

Of course, I am giving it lots of "help", but still. :D

misstwist
May 13th, 2011, 01:07 PM
Sorry, the very first post, specifically the one about hair being strongest all one length. I think he also expounded the idea that when hair is cut into layers or has bangs, somehow the follicles "know" what's up and try to even themselves out by adjusting hair growth, which we all know isn't true.

Sorry, should have specified.

Using the quote function often helps avoid such confusion. ;)

elbow chic
May 13th, 2011, 01:21 PM
I'm sort of fascinated with GM right now, if only because his methods prove there's more than one way to skin this particular cat. I keep fantasizing about getting that huge white comb. :D

(Also, brushing is such a wonderful and indulgent and satisfying activity to me that anyone who thinks it's a good thing, and not a fearful source of damage, is going to perk my ears up.)

Anyway, a BBB really doesn't get all the way through to my scalp, not even upside down. My BBB is pretty cheap, though-- about seven or eight bucks from Sally's.

As far as bangs go, obviously you can grow fabulous long hair with bangs. Torrin from Youtube, Arc691 here... it seems not to be a problem. But maybe there's a psychological element to it for some people-- if you are always messing about with the scissors and blow dryer fixing up your bangs, it might be tempting to mess around with the length too much.

LoveMyLongHair
May 13th, 2011, 02:01 PM
Maybe someone addressed this & I missed it. I'd like to try GM type products (I'm not willing to pay the big price for the real deal). Breck cream rinse was mentioned earlier. Don't know if it is even made anymore. Do any of you know of current, inexpensive shampoos & cream rinses? Can you somehow combine a conditioner & shampoo to make a cream shampoo? How about a cream rinse - how is it different from conditioner? Will all these work for fine, only slightly wavy, not too thick hair? I do plan to start the head down brushing. I think it helped years ago & I had forgotten.

You can actually still get Breck and some other 'oldies' from the Vermont Country Store. vermontcountrystore.com (http://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=CRpZ08I3NTdXsKYOl0AGPq_3eDcy9x4wB6vyi2xv_kIYGCA AQASDtit8GUKDs34r7_____wFgyba6jNikjBGgAdj-8v4DyAEBqgQcT9DVHkdZMTLWT9OU2qj-xcRtxi4hYpg1NN-bVIAFkE4&sig=AGiWqtx1-z8n3owwJRz3FtV4IhhkJ2CDzg&ved=0CBIQ0Qw&adurl=http://www.vermontcountrystore.com/Shop%3Fsearchid%3D7MG1BRND%26feedid%3Dgooglebrand% 26jadid%3D7351815738%26jk%3Dvermont%2520country%25 20store%26js%3D1%26jmt%3D1_e_%26jp%3D%26jkId%3D8a8 ae4cc291e480901291ec47c035391%26jt%3D1%26jsid%3D20 123%26)

that have all kinds of hard to find goodies there.

Delila
May 13th, 2011, 02:31 PM
... Do any of you know of current, inexpensive shampoos & cream rinses? ...

In recent years I've been using pretty much nothing but GM. I do experiment from time to time, but have consistently gone back to this line over and over. I think I'll eventually use up or pitch my stash of other stuff, and just stick with GM. The bottles seem to be lasting me a long, long time, so even though it's not cheap to get started, over time, it's really no pricier than anything else. (especially when I factor in the cost of other stuff I tried that didn't work, LOL!)

I don't know how one might duplicate a 'cream shampoo', I honestly don't know what ingredients might merit that terminology.

Over time, I've found that I'm better off using the Cream Shampoo and the Moisturizing shampoo only in winter, and to use the blue shampoo (for oily scalp types) in warmer weather.

Shampoo-wise in other brands, I'm comfortable with Biolage. I'm sensitive to scent overload, and GM and Biolage are both fine by my nose. :)

The Biolage bottles last a long time, so even though they cost a bit at first, the product lasts so long, it's not a bad deal. It's also useful that the brand tends to remain basically the same from one year to the next, so you don't have to search for a replacement for an old standby.

Basically, I'd suggest using a shampoo for your scalp type. If your hair and scalp need LOTS of moisture, use a moisturizing shampoo. If your scalp tends towards oiliness, like mine, use something formulated for that.

Conditioners, same thing. Just find conditioners that help provide the level of moisture and protein that seem to work for you.

There are cream rinse type products available in other brands, but these days they tend not to call themselves by that name. Biolage Detangling Solution and Paul Mitchell's lightweight detangling rinse, would probably serve. Aussie used to make one called Knot Forgotten, but discontinued that, not sure if they've got anything similar now.

squiggyflop
May 13th, 2011, 02:39 PM
well, i disprove of much of his claims as many of them have been disproven by my friend science. the bangs thing, he is rumored to have had a strong dislike of bangs. because he thought they were ugly he told women not to have them.

when im looking for hair advice i always side with science.

however i do like his attitude toward long hair.

as for the 100 strokes a day. it depends on the hair and the amount of sebum people produce. ive tried it and at the end of the hundred strokes my scalp is WET to the touch with oil and i look like an oil slick (i overproduce oil when my scalp is stimulated for some reason).. if your hair doesnt overproduce oil then it could be beneficial so long as your hair isnt ultra-fine. yes it can be damaging, but for some people it works. 100 is not the number you should pay attention to, as we dont all have the same hair thickness. the thinner your hair the less strokes you would need. and even that isnt set in stone because some people have hard sebum that cant be moved easily and some people have wet easy to move down the length sebum

christine1989
May 13th, 2011, 02:43 PM
When I first saw this thread I honestly thought George Michael- that guy from Wham has a theory on long hair care?! He is so prolific! :laugh: I guess I need to do a little google search on this because as you can see, I'm quite oblivious on the subject.

LoveMyLongHair
May 13th, 2011, 02:57 PM
When I first saw this thread I honestly thought George Michael- that guy from Wham has a theory on long hair care?! He is so prolific! :laugh: I guess I need to do a little google search on this because as you can see, I'm quite oblivious on the subject.

:rollin: christine1989 you just gave me a smile......George Michael from WHAM I enjoy musically.

christine1989
May 13th, 2011, 03:19 PM
Research confirms that the Dr. George Michael philosophy has absolutly nothing to do with Wham ;). I've been thinking about investing in a new BBB (my old one is a cat brush) and find his brushing method intriguing. Once I buy my new brush I think I will give it a try. I'm a bit skeptical if upside down brushing will work without massive tangling but I guess "I gotta have faith" ;)

jojo
May 13th, 2011, 06:19 PM
ha ha Christine you do make me smile!!!

charalito
May 15th, 2011, 11:22 AM
I haven't ready any of his books, just the information available online (and on the amazing posts by Madora and Heidi W.), and while his techniques can be controversial taken out of context, my hair is loving the upsidedown brushing with the bbb. Just take whatever works for you, I guess :)

As a consequence of this thread, I'm want to visit the NYC salon next year. Years ago I promised my mother I would take her to NY on my 35th birthday, and if I'm there, getting pampered at a George Michael salon will be a great way to celebrate!

nellreno
May 15th, 2011, 12:06 PM
In the end, his philosophy is just his opinion on haircare. It shouldn't be looked at like some kind of gospel.

LadieRyrie
May 15th, 2011, 12:29 PM
GM has some strange rules.

"The hair must be all one length because of the 'equalization factor.' No bangs, no layers." That is most definitely not true.

"Hair should never be parted in the middle because the weakest hairs are there and will break." Again, people with middle parts say they never noticed such damage.

"Hair looks best parted on the right because hair on the forehead grows from left to right and pushes up the hair." I'm pretty sure growth patterns are different for everyone of us.

I'm not sure what to think about him.

Maktub
October 22nd, 2011, 02:22 PM
I'm now only on page 8 of reading this thread, which I find very interesting, but I have a few questions ;

- is there any way to find his book at a reasonable price ?
- what are the ingredients in his different products (I didn't find this online). Are they natural ?
- I read on a book review that he was somewhat against redhair, is this true ?
- Did GM mention curly hair care at all, or any difference in treatment ?

Might have further questions... but for now I'm off reading some more

ktani
October 22nd, 2011, 02:37 PM
I'm now only on page 8 of reading this thread, which I find very interesting, but I have a few questions ;

- is there any way to find his book at a reasonable price ?
- what are the ingredients in his different products (I didn't find this online). Are they natural ?
- I read on a book review that he was somewhat against redhair, is this true ?
- Did GM mention curly hair care at all, or any difference in treatment ?

Might have further questions... but for now I'm off reading some more

Funny you should ask this about the ingredients. They used to be online with the product descriptions years ago and not now. I just found the ingredients for 2 shampoos and the 12 minute conditioner. I did read them years ago but could not remember them. It is probably because sulfates, parabens and DEA came under criticism and are not as marketable for some people.

12 minute conditioner 2000 http://www.hairboutique.com/tips/tip582.htm
"Water, Glyceryl Stearate, Glycerine, Quaternium 70, Quaternium 60, Myristal Myristate, C12-15 Alcohols Lactate, Quaternium 18, Cetyl Alcohol, Diethyl Amino Ethyl Stearate, Phosphoric Acid, Hydroxy Ethyl Cellulose, Propylene Glycol, Diazolidinyl Urea, Methylparaben, Propylparaben. Contains no artificial color or perfume."

Cream shampoo and blue shampoo 2004
http://www.longlocks.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1094839112
"GM Creme Shampoo:
water, DEA laural sulfate, lauraminopropionate lauramide DEA, cocamidopropyl hydroxysultane, glycol stearate and other ingredients?, propylene glycol citric acid, diazolidinyl urea, methylparaben, propylparaben, color & fragrance.

GM Blue Shampoo for fine, oily:
water, sodium laureth sulfate, PEG 80 Sorbitan Laureate, sodium tricedeth sulfate, cocamidopropyl sultaine or hydroxysulfaine?, disodium lauroampodiacetate, PEG 150 distearate, sodium laureth13 carboxylate, citric acid,propylparaben, diazolidinyl urea,methylparaben, propylene glycol, color, fragrance."

Cream Shampoo - 2009
http://www.langhaarnetzwerk.de/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8712&view=previous&sid=e1148215ee5b34b8eb81b506d8e60108
"Water,
Sodium Laureth Sulfate,
PEG 80 Sorbitan Laurate,
Sodium Trideceth Sulfate,
Cocamidopropyl Hydroxysultaine,
Disodium Lauroampodiacetate,
PEG 150 Distearate,
Sodium Laureth 13 Carboxylate,
Citric Acid,
Gylcol Stearate (and other ingredients),
Propylparaben,
Diazolidinyl Urea,
Mathylparaben,
Propylene Glycol,
Color (FD&C Red#33 & D&C Orange #4) and
Fragrance."

Madora
October 22nd, 2011, 02:54 PM
Mr. Michael loved hair of all shades and lengths.

Natural red hair is a very rare color.

Mr. Michael's book is hard to find and pricey when you do. I've seen it a few times on Amazon.

Maktub
October 22nd, 2011, 02:55 PM
Thanks ktani !

So... not so natural I guess.
I find some of his ideas interesting, and it gets me curious...

Maktub
October 22nd, 2011, 02:59 PM
Mr. Michael loved hair of all shades and lengths.

Natural red hair is a very rare color.

Mr. Michael's book is hard to find and pricey when you do. I've seen it a few times on Amazon.


Thanks Madora ! Nice to know. You have inspiring hair, that's for sure !

I saw a little girl about 2 years old a few days ago with such a deep deep red color, I had never seen anything like it. it was beyond gorgeous (it was her natural color too) :) Wish I had a picture to show you guys !

do you think the upside down BBB brushing softly on detangled hair can be a good think without an expensive BBB brush ? I have only a "normal" bbb brush, but it does seem to feel good for the scalp in my mind.

I am experimenting with washing less often & see how my hair behaves with my own natural sebum protection ... :) Of course this means not being so curly for a while (I get waves when I brush and comb my curls out), but that's ok with me. The sebum would make it less "pouffy" ...

I think I'm going towards a more simple routine... GM seems to have some interesting ideas...

ktani
October 22nd, 2011, 03:07 PM
Thanks ktani !

So... not so natural I guess.
I find some of his ideas interesting, and it gets me curious...

You are very welcome.

Most reviews here are so so on the products. Madora uses only George Michael products and has awesome hair.

I see nothing in them that is terrible. I just could not remember why they did not appeal to me years ago and was recently curious. There are a few ingredients I stay away from out of preference because I know they will cause my hair problems.

ETA: I just corrected the 2009 Cream Shampoo ingredient list which was somehow doubled. I saved a translated version of that post which caused font and link problems and doubled the ingredients listing.

Ah, the Google translation translated sodium laureth sulfate into sodium lauryl sulfate, interesting.
I replaced the list with the original untranslated version.

Annibelle
October 22nd, 2011, 05:10 PM
Could someone with experience (cough Madora or Heidi? ) tell me if you've seen a GM salon deal with someone whose hair has a lot of taper? If so, how did they handle it? A big chop?

Madora
October 22nd, 2011, 05:20 PM
Thanks Madora ! Nice to know. You have inspiring hair, that's for sure !

I saw a little girl about 2 years old a few days ago with such a deep deep red color, I had never seen anything like it. it was beyond gorgeous (it was her natural color too) :) Wish I had a picture to show you guys !

do you think the upside down BBB brushing softly on detangled hair can be a good think without an expensive BBB brush ? I have only a "normal" bbb brush, but it does seem to feel good for the scalp in my mind.

I am experimenting with washing less often & see how my hair behaves with my own natural sebum protection ... :) Of course this means not being so curly for a while (I get waves when I brush and comb my curls out), but that's ok with me. The sebum would make it less "pouffy" ...

I think I'm going towards a more simple routine... GM seems to have some interesting ideas...

Maktub, your bbb doesn't need to be expensive to yield good results.

Pure boar bristle brushes come in a variety of shapes and the bristles can be very stiff or very soft. The bristles can also be long and thick, or thin and shorter. BBBs can be found at Walgreens, Target or at Sally's Beauty Supply.

HOW you use the brush will determine how your hair responds to brushing. You always detangle your hair FIRST with a wide tooth comb before you start brushing, and you detangle from the ends up the strands, a little at a time, until you reach the roots.

How much you brush depends on you. If your hair is curly then you may prefer to forgo the brush and use just a comb.

Brushing not only helps exercise your hair follicles, but also removes the lint that gets trapped in your hair, and over time leaves your hair soft and shiny.

Your hairbrush should feel comfortable in your hand, and have at least 5 or 6 rows of bristles.

nellreno
October 22nd, 2011, 05:22 PM
Wait, is GM really a doctor (medical or PhD)?

Madora
October 22nd, 2011, 05:24 PM
Could someone with experience (cough Madora or Heidi? ) tell me if you've seen a GM salon deal with someone whose hair has a lot of taper? If so, how did they handle it? A big chop?

Annibelle, I've never seen anyone with layers at a GM salon. But I do know that he did not like layers because he believed one length hair was best.

I did see other ladies get their hair trimmed, however, and they always treated the customer with respect and the hair was trimmed carefully and thoughtfully. No "treat it like garbage" at the GM salon! If you wanted your hair saved, they saved it for you.

And while I wasn't there when it happened, Cindy Christian, who had the most amazing hair I've ever seen (past floor length), had her hair cut short at the GM salon.

Madora
October 22nd, 2011, 05:26 PM
@Ktani...Thanks so much for your lovely compliment (post 127 above). I love the GM products!

ktani
October 22nd, 2011, 05:41 PM
@Ktani...Thanks so much for your lovely compliment (post 127 above). I love the GM products!

You are very welcome.

The products obviously work very well for you.

Mesmerise
October 22nd, 2011, 07:46 PM
Annibelle, I've never seen anyone with layers at a GM salon. But I do know that he did not like layers because he believed one length hair was best.

I did see other ladies get their hair trimmed, however, and they always treated the customer with respect and the hair was trimmed carefully and thoughtfully. No "treat it like garbage" at the GM salon! If you wanted your hair saved, they saved it for you.

And while I wasn't there when it happened, Cindy Christian, who had the most amazing hair I've ever seen (past floor length), had her hair cut short at the GM salon.

Madora, I think Annibelle is talking about hair that is naturally tapered, not hair that is layered. So, how would GM handle hair like that? Would the salons recommend cutting off more hair to thicken the ends, for example? Or would they try to cut off as little as possible to maximise length?

Madora
October 22nd, 2011, 07:51 PM
Madora, I think Annibelle is talking about hair that is naturally tapered, not hair that is layered. So, how would GM handle hair like that? Would the salons recommend cutting off more hair to thicken the ends, for example? Or would they try to cut off as little as possible to maximise length?

Mesmerise, the GM salon endeavors to keep as much of the length that the client has, provided, however, that it is healthy.

They only trim off the damaged bits, and then they use a special technique to only trim the damage and leave the majority of the hair intact.

The few trims/cuts that I saw at the GM salon featured either a complete blunt cut of the ends (i.e. straight across), or a very slight "U" shape.

Metallia
October 22nd, 2011, 08:02 PM
Madora, I think Annibelle is talking about hair that is naturally tapered, not hair that is layered. So, how would GM handle hair like that? Would the salons recommend cutting off more hair to thicken the ends, for example? Or would they try to cut off as little as possible to maximise length?
From my experiences at Rapunzels in Ohio, they will not do anything to your hair you don't want them to do. The first time I had a dusting my stylist asked what type of hemline I preferred to maintain, and that's how she kept it.
In other notes, I've seen people there with bangs, and with several lengths and types of hair, and everyone so far as I've witnessed (my sample size is still small) seemed to be treated with care and respect.
I have never been to another GM salon, so YMMV, but my experience has been good so far.

Maktub
October 22nd, 2011, 08:08 PM
Again, very interesting comments !
I wish there was a salon close to where I live where hair was considered more hollistically and with such a respect.

Maktub
October 22nd, 2011, 08:23 PM
It's my GM curiosity day :D

Some more questions ...
What about frequency of washing, did GM have a theory about this ? Do you WO at all in between washes ?
And protective do's during the day ?

CherrySilver
October 22nd, 2011, 08:41 PM
Wait, is GM really a doctor (medical or PhD)?

Yes, he graduated medical school in Russia and was a doctor there before emigrating to the US. He practiced in NYC up until the point when medical degrees from a number of countries were no longer recognized during the McCarthy era.

Madora
October 22nd, 2011, 08:58 PM
It's my GM curiosity day :D

Some more questions ...
What about frequency of washing, did GM have a theory about this ? Do you WO at all in between washes ?
And protective do's during the day ?

Dr. Michael believed in washing your hair when it needed washing. He also wrote that washing your hair too often striped it of its natural oils, leaving it like straw.

I never WO because I want a clean scalp.

There are many protective updos you can try, which not only look lovely but protect the delicate ends of your hair. Mr. Michael favored several styles (Heidi braids, French Twist, chignons, among others).

Maktub
October 22nd, 2011, 10:38 PM
thank you !

I found a small video of him and his hair salon / long hair clients

<link removed>

nellreno
October 23rd, 2011, 12:42 AM
Yes, he graduated medical school in Russia and was a doctor there before emigrating to the US. He practiced in NYC up until the point when medical degrees from a number of countries were no longer recognized during the McCarthy era.

Oh cool, I didn't know that.

CavySong
October 29th, 2011, 09:41 PM
I hope Madora will see this, I am wondering....:rolleyes:

I have been having all kinds of fun trying new things and I find I really like coconut oil and Ktani's Shampoo methods. Will these things conflict with The GM philosophy or products?shudder:

I am worried that the GM Salon deep treatment I have scheduled for Tuesday will be ruined by my love of playing with my hair.:confused:

Maktub
October 29th, 2011, 09:50 PM
Sorry for the link that was removed ... it was a youtube video, I don't know what was wrong with it, seemed pretty innocent, but I trust the moderators judgement ! Very sorry if it wasn't appropriate in some way.

I started brushing my hair head upside down with a BBB daily, after detangling gently with my comb, and I really like it so far. My head started to produce a little more sebum I think... in a good "nourishing" way (not in a greasy way) !


** edit, oh I understand now why the link was removed when going back and checking the "group" that is behind the youtube video... Hair f***sh :/ Sorry I hadn't checked.

CurlyCap
October 30th, 2011, 01:31 AM
I don't think GM works at all with truly curly hair. At least, I've never seen it work.

My mother is asian and my father is black. While my mom didn't know anything about GM, a lot of her hair traditions incorporated the same ideas, and my childhood hair care was TORTURE. I remember many nights of brushing, upside down, in front of my mom with a boar bristle brush. It was awful because my hair was usually dry, poorly conditioned and under-oiled. But my mom was doing her best, trying to apply the traditions that had worked in her family for generations to a head of curly hair that was unlike anything she'd seen. In the end, my dad actually took over my hair care (and that was interesting, because I don't have the type 4 hair he was familiar with either).


Anyway:

All one length: GUH. On curly hair, this is pyramid hair. It is NOT stronger as the "outer layer" was usually everywhere. My hair, unlayered, can form a perfect circle around my head. This is not an exageration. Length does not weight it down. It is impressive. At all one length (or pretty close to it), I found the outer layers were usually damaged from constant mechanical attempts to keep it under control.

Boar Bristles: You know the pain of curlies brushing their hair? Yeah, boar bristles are worse. The tiny bristles may not catch an entire curl; sometimes they only get a portion of the curl. Then half a curl is being pulled straight while the other half is in a ringlet. It leads to pain and a result that is not cute. Further, curls add a fake sort of thickness. Board bristles do not penetrate anywhere near my scalp. Not even anywhere near the first 1cm of my hairline closest to where the brush starts its travel. And brushing always leads to breakage. Curls don't like to be constantly straightened and released. This repeated motion breaks springs and will certainly break hair. Boar bristles are for smoothing when styling for me. Otherwise, keep them away!

Products: Never enough moisture. In fact, I find this is very common with any stylists that works mostly with straight hair. They think I'm exaggerating. Hair washers don't believe me when I say, 3 minutes into a wash, that the water has yet to make it to my scalp. The stylist doesn't believe me when I say the dime sized amount of product they are going to use will do nothing. And then they get upset when my hair doesn't obey their attempts. The lady who cuts my hair now is AWESOME because she admits that she can cut my hair but is bad at styling or maintaining my hair. She doesn't know, and was never taught, how to manage truly curly hair. I appreciate that she doesn't treat my hair as straight.

For fun, in appreciation of dealing with my epic monologue, the brushing of 3b/3c curly hair:

Normal hair. I tend to run my hands through my hair while thinking, so some volume. Also, as a bonus, my parents loving attempt at hair control as a small child. XD
http://i56.tinypic.com/2qdncir.jpg

Thoroughly brushed hair. This is actually REALLY hard to do because once you brush the first inch or two of scalp, there is literally no where to push the rest of the brushed hair, hence the perfect circle. I usually quit about 1/4 of the way through my hair, and just agitate the scalp with the brush. But occasionally I go all the way, because the result makes me me laugh:
http://i42.tinypic.com/2r7qyiq.jpg

Madora
October 30th, 2011, 07:44 AM
I hope Madora will see this, I am wondering....:rolleyes:

I have been having all kinds of fun trying new things and I find I really like coconut oil and Ktani's Shampoo methods. Will these things conflict with The GM philosophy or products?shudder:

I am worried that the GM Salon deep treatment I have scheduled for Tuesday will be ruined by my love of playing with my hair.:confused:

Cavy Song, I have no idea whether the coconut oil or the Ktani Shampoo methods will conflict with the GM products. Guess you'll have to play it by ear.

I do know that there is a certain length of time you are supposed to keep from washing your hair after the treatment (so that it is fully effective) but I don't think it is more than 3 days or so. You might want to ask at the salon about the coconut oil and Ktani's shampoo methods.

ktani
October 30th, 2011, 08:33 AM
CavySong

Your GM treatment should not be ruined by the coconut oil shampoo method you have been doing.

The method, depending on how you have used it does not create build-up on hair.

I believe the first step at the GM salon after determining the hair needs is to cleanse the hair to remove other products.

The conditioning treatment will interfere with lauric acid absorbtion into your hair after it, from the ingredients used in GM Products that I have seen.

You will have a choice to make for your hair and you may prefer the GM method and products.

No worries and please, enjoy the GM experience. From everything members have posted here it is something to experience and be pleased with afterward.

ETA: You may be able to compromise with using the oil shampoo method and a minimal amount of a GM product, although the results will not be the same as not using it and you will need to clarify your hair every once in a while. It depends on what you want to do. Go with what works best for you and your hair.

Kapri
December 31st, 2011, 06:36 AM
Another question about trimming at George Michael Salon.

Hi everyone and Happy New Year..almost...

I recently made an appointment at the London Long Hair Salon (George Michael theory) and then decided to go to my usual hairdresser because I wanted an 8th of an inch taken off all the layers that I am growing down. I had looked at the publicity material and discussed the trim with Neil the long hair specialist. He said he would do most things but not cut layers so I guessed that he would not trim my growing out layers either. Was I wrong? I didn't want the layers to be untended to.

What I plan to do is get a proper cut and trim (after 4 months my collar-bone length hair is looking a bit frazzled) with all the layers thoroughly trimmed and an inch off the hem so that the basic shape is there and then go for a dry trim to Neil. (I currently have a long fringe and that too I would like to see re-shaped rather than simply growing it down.) From Neil I am looking for great hair care advice and a thorough going over of any split ends....

Any wisdom from those of you in the know would be valued!

Thanks!

Madora
December 31st, 2011, 07:28 AM
Did you explain to Neil that you have layered hair? I doubt if trimming layered hair would make a difference (other than perhaps being more time consuming). As you know, the GM folks do not cut layers..or bangs.

PrairieRose
December 31st, 2011, 08:05 AM
I appreciate his attitude and love for long hair, but as to the specifics - poppycock! (yes, us oldsters still say that)
Poppycock...I love it. :Dlol

Kapri
December 31st, 2011, 08:12 AM
Madora,

Hi.

I went and saw him in his salon.

( and he took a look at my hair and said it could do with some tweaking and care to get into its best condition (I think it was looking a bit dry).)

He then explained that my current style would not present much of a problem but the only thing he would not do is cut layers. I understood that already from you and other ladies on the LHC. What I should have asked was whether he trimmed already existing layers... I would be too embarrassed to phone up about that now.

I think I will probably stick to my current plan to get a trim and freshen up the style at my current hairdressers and then go to Neil in a couple of months time. The layers will have been trimmed more recently so I won't be worrying about them. It is 4 months since it was trimmed.

Madora
December 31st, 2011, 08:41 AM
Madora,

Hi.

I went and saw him in his salon.

( and he took a look at my hair and said it could do with some tweaking and care to get into its best condition (I think it was looking a bit dry).)

He then explained that my current style would not present much of a problem but the only thing he would not do is cut layers. I understood that already from you and other ladies on the LHC. What I should have asked was whether he trimmed already existing layers... I would be too embarrassed to phone up about that now.

I think I will probably stick to my current plan to get a trim and freshen up the style at my current hairdressers and then go to Neil in a couple of months time. The layers will have been trimmed more recently so I won't be worrying about them. It is 4 months since it was trimmed.

I'm sure you'll enjoy your visit with Neil, Kapri. The GM trimming technique is thorough but you need not worry about them trimming off too much. They take special pains to remove all the split ends/damage from your ends and the result is very satisfactory (I've had the complete treatment and the trimming part of it was quite an experience in that I've never seen any trimmer take such pains to snip off just a smidgen. You never have to worry about "scissor happy" trimmers at a GM salon!)

Kapri
December 31st, 2011, 08:43 AM
Madora,

Thank you so much for your encouragement. I will report back when it happens eventually.

Happy New Year!

Kapri

Emaebe
January 6th, 2012, 01:09 AM
Thank you Heidi W.
I was looking for a description of the whole GM system, and yours is very helpful! I wish I could find a copy of his book or a salon that practices his ideas in my area :)

Tabitha
January 6th, 2012, 04:03 AM
Yes Neil will trim existing layers (for the better health of the hair) but he won't cut layers in.

I've been a couple of times, and I have long layers and a growing-out fringe. He included all my hair in the S&D and trim, and shaped the growing-out fringe slightly to help it blend better with the rest of my hair.

He doesn't cut fringes though: another client was having a treatment who also wanted her fringe cut. Neil summoned a colleague from the mainstream salon upstairs to do that and said it was something he just didn't do and was now completely out of practice.

WaitingSoLong
January 6th, 2012, 06:18 AM
Off topic, but the title made me start singing "Last Christmas I Gave You My Heart."

Just have to laugh at this, when I first saw GM mentioned on TLHC I thought it was THAT GM, too. And even though I know better, it still invokes the other GM's songs in my head, too!


I think he also expounded the idea that when hair is cut into layers or has bangs, somehow the follicles "know" what's up and try to even themselves out by adjusting hair growth, which we all know isn't true.

OK, I just read this entire thread today and I was pretty incredulous about this claim, too, but I do have a theory that could potentially give some support to his theory:

I would be skeptical that a hair follicle knows when part of the length has been cut BUT I have made this observation in my own hair life: when I had bangs/fringe, they grew MUCH faster than the rest of my hair. Truly, they did. I haven't had bangs in years, though. I let them grow since 2005 and they reached terminal between shoulder to waist length.

But what if the length of the hairs put different amounts of stress on the follicle and THAT is how the follicle "knows"?

I could easily play devil's advocate here because the counter argument is that it could be plausible IF we only ever wore hair loose. Bunning, etc. puts stress on follicles, too.

Just a thought!


"Hair looks best parted on the right because hair on the forehead grows from left to right and pushes up the hair."

I don't even understand this statement.


BBBs can be found at Walgreens, Target or at Sally's Beauty Supply.

HOW you use the brush will

I once bought one a at Wal-Mart (probably 8 years ago) and most recently at Kroger.

His brushing method is definitely not for me and I am a straighty! First: I would think this would work best on someone who rarely washes, what is the point in distributing sebum that will just be washed off the next day? Besides, my sebum won't get much past my shoulders. I prefer to use sebum alternatives.

Also this method gives me huge greasy scalp. It would take 1000 strokes to get it past my shoulders.

My hair is also very fine and I really felt it was damaging. I even bought a new BBB because I thought mine was just old but I have stopped even trying this. Plus the end result is something like a giant stick of candy floss and it took a washing to return my hair to any form of manageable.

Perhaps if I had stuck with it over time, but, I feel mechanical damage is my #1 enemy and this was just not for me. I do recall hearing since I was a child that you should brush 100 strokes a day. And I am not that old! Oh, and I say poppycock, too, the older phrases are some of the best ones!

UP Lisa
January 6th, 2012, 06:52 AM
There would be nothing left of my hair a long time ago if I brushed it 100 strokes a day. The only brush i can safely use is a baby brush, and I have to use that sparingly.

This method may work for some hairtypes, but certainly not for all. What about the really curlies?

Helenae
January 6th, 2012, 07:00 AM
Does anyone have a link to where I can find the entire George Michael philosophy all in one place?

Kapri
January 6th, 2012, 07:09 AM
'Yes Neil will trim existing layers (for the better health of the hair) but he won't cut layers in.'

Tabitha,

Thank you!!! That is great news. I think I will still get the style re-freshed at my usual place and then go to him in a couple of months time. I am really pleased about that.

Kapri

williearl
January 22nd, 2012, 09:01 PM
Yes, he graduated medical school in Russia and was a doctor there before emigrating to the US. He practiced in NYC up until the point when medical degrees from a number of countries were no longer recognized during the McCarthy era.
Sorry, but Dr Michael never practiced medicine in the U.S.

williearl
January 22nd, 2012, 09:11 PM
I'm now only on page 8 of reading this thread, which I find very interesting, but I have a few questions ;

- is there any way to find his book at a reasonable price ?
- what are the ingredients in his different products (I didn't find this online). Are they natural ?
- I read on a book review that he was somewhat against redhair, is this true ?
- Did GM mention curly hair care at all, or any difference in treatment ?

Might have further questions... but for now I'm off reading some more
Concerning Dr Michael's thoughts on red hair. He met one of my clients who had classic length red hair when he visited my salon in Dallas. He loved her and her hair and visa versa. She and her husband even visited him in San Antonio after his heart surgery there. He thought red hair was very special because you rarely see two shades of red that are identical.

williearl
January 22nd, 2012, 09:26 PM
I think it's BS. As a child. (and I'm no spring chicken) things came in 100's. Brush your hair 100 strokes, chew your food 100 times, brush your teeth 100 strokes. Basically, do a thorough job.

I've not used GM products, but I'm sure that they are very nice or his salon wouldn't have commanded the prices to stay alive on madison ave. I'm curious about the length of the appointments and if we had that much time per day to invest into a hair obsession that perhaps our hair would be just as nice?
That is in fact BS. Dr Michael never subscribed to 100 strokes of brushing. In fact, in his book he suggests most should brush up to a number of strokes they are comfortable with. Most find about 50 strokes just about right.

Kapri
January 25th, 2012, 04:30 PM
You may have seen this very helpful piece about the GM hair care philosophy on another site:
http://longhairloversblog.blogspot.com/2011/05/dr-george-michaels-method-of-long-hair.html

It is worth reading.

I do have a question about what the article says about partings:

'You probably part your hair on the left side or use a center part. We suggest that you part your hair on the right side. Hair follicles along the forehead grow from the left to the right. A right side part adds height and has your hair doing "push-ups". The middle part is definitely out. It puts additional stress on the weakest hairs on the top of the head, which results in hair thinning and the part spreading wider. '

Now I part my hair on the right side as I look ahead, the left hand side if you are looking at me. It is my left hand side ( from my vantage point) which is the bouncy side.

I wonder which side the article is talking about here?

Madora
January 25th, 2012, 08:13 PM
You may have seen this very helpful piece about the GM hair care philosophy on another site:
http://longhairloversblog.blogspot.com/2011/05/dr-george-michaels-method-of-long-hair.html

It is worth reading.

I do have a question about what the article says about partings:

'You probably part your hair on the left side or use a center part. We suggest that you part your hair on the right side. Hair follicles along the forehead grow from the left to the right. A right side part adds height and has your hair doing "push-ups". The middle part is definitely out. It puts additional stress on the weakest hairs on the top of the head, which results in hair thinning and the part spreading wider. '

Now I part my hair on the right side as I look ahead, the left hand side if you are looking at me. It is my left hand side ( from my vantage point) which is the bouncy side.

I wonder which side the article is talking about here?

The hair is parted on your right hand side..per George Michael's Secrets for Beautiful Hair (1981 Doubleday) page 149:

"...a woman should part her hair on the right, against the growth, for natural height. A right-side part has your hair doing push-ups for you and you are automatically exercising your scalp by parting it on this side."

Kapri
January 26th, 2012, 02:35 AM
Thank you Madora! Hi. I presume you mean MY right hand side in other words the same side as my right hand??

Madora, do you use all the GM hair products? Have you posted about your hair care routine anywhere?

Many thanks and have a lovely day!

Madora
January 26th, 2012, 08:54 AM
Thank you Madora! Hi. I presume you mean MY right hand side in other words the same side as my right hand??

Madora, do you use all the GM hair products? Have you posted about your hair care routine anywhere?

Many thanks and have a lovely day!

Yes, Kapri, your right hand side:)

No, I don't use all of them since there are different products for different types/conditions of hair.

I've been using his pink creme shampoo exclusively since 1982. Have also used his 3 minute conditioner and the one minute version. All products are diluted in 8 oz of warm water.

My hair care routine is fairly ordinary:

Brush 100 strokes with my bbb every day
Shampoo once a month with the GM Pink Creme Shampoo followed by the conditioner. I've been alternating between the GM conditioner and Tresemme Naturals Condish with Aloe and Avocado (no sillicones).

My shampoo method:

Brush well and detangle thoroughly before wetting hair. (I shampoo using a bath chair, in the bent at the waist position).

I have a special method of keeping my hair separated somewhat throughout the entire shampooing/rinsing/conditioning procedure, which helps eliminate a lot of tangling.

A tablespoon of shampoo is mixed with 8 oz warm water, poured over the hair, shampooed throughout the length, then rinsed off.

The next shampoo is the same, except the shampoo is thoroughly massaged on the scalp. My fingers only massage in one direction at a time ..top down, back to front. Thorough rinse with warm water, then the conditioner is poured over my hair, detangling is completed, then a warm rinse, followed by a cold water rinse.

I use my palms to gently squeeze out any excess water, then place the hair in a towel, press the length again thru the towel, then pin the towel around my head for 10 minutes. Undo the towel, gently detangle and airdry. My airdrying method is located in the Articles section:D.

Maktub
January 26th, 2012, 08:57 AM
Shampoo once a month with the GM Pink Creme Shampoo followed by the conditioner. I've been alternating between the GM conditioner and Tresemme Naturals Condish with Aloe and Avocado (no sillicones).

What do you do outside of this monthly wash / Co ?
Do you wet your hair at all when you bathe / shower or do you always keep it dry and away from water ?

Do you put anything else (other than distributing sebum with your BBB) during the month in your hair ?

Tabitha
January 26th, 2012, 09:04 AM
You may have seen this very helpful piece about the GM hair care philosophy on another site:
http://longhairloversblog.blogspot.com/2011/05/dr-george-michaels-method-of-long-hair.html

It is worth reading.

I do have a question about what the article says about partings:

'You probably part your hair on the left side or use a center part. We suggest that you part your hair on the right side. Hair follicles along the forehead grow from the left to the right. A right side part adds height and has your hair doing "push-ups". The middle part is definitely out. It puts additional stress on the weakest hairs on the top of the head, which results in hair thinning and the part spreading wider. '

Now I part my hair on the right side as I look ahead, the left hand side if you are looking at me. It is my left hand side ( from my vantage point) which is the bouncy side.

I wonder which side the article is talking about here?
My interpretation is that whichever side your hair normally parts itself on, you should part it on the opposite side.

GM's assumption being that most people's hair naturally falls into a left-sided parting - a generalisation that to me is similar to "most people are right-handed".

I've been to Neil Ward's London GM salon and Neil said I should try to part my hair on the opposite side from the side it naturally fell on - for the reasons already given. Now my hair does want to part on the left (and I'm right-handed ...) but from the way he explained it, he meant the opposite side to one's natural part, be that right or left (going "against the grain" allegedly exercising the hair follicle's muscle).

Madora
January 26th, 2012, 09:18 AM
What do you do outside of this monthly wash / Co ?
Do you wet your hair at all when you bathe / shower or do you always keep it dry and away from water ?

Do you put anything else (other than distributing sebum with your BBB) during the month in your hair ?

Nothing except wear my hair up.

When I shower/bathe, my hair is always covered in a shower cap.

No, when I brush it is just with the brush and nothing applied to my hair.

I do an overnight EVOO treatment the day after the shampoo but that is it as far as my hair is concerned.

I've never clarified or used CO, or WO, or any other combination.

Kapri
January 26th, 2012, 09:20 AM
Hi Madora

Great tips ..thank you so much!! I like the idea of the diluting of the shampoo for the lengths and a different approach for the scalp. Your whole approach is very interesting indeed and sounds relatively simple once you get the hang of it. Less is more and so on!!!

One thing, I live in London and I don't know if I could get away with once monthly shampooing ..the air where I live is so polluted. Perhaps the brushing helps with that???

Kapri

Kapri
January 26th, 2012, 09:23 AM
Yes, Kapri, your right hand side:)

No, I don't use all of them since there are different products for different types/conditions of hair.

I've been using his pink creme shampoo exclusively since 1982. Have also used his 3 minute conditioner and the one minute version. All products are diluted in 8 oz of warm water.

My hair care routine is fairly ordinary:

Brush 100 strokes with my bbb every day
Shampoo once a month with the GM Pink Creme Shampoo followed by the conditioner. I've been alternating between the GM conditioner and Tresemme Naturals Condish with Aloe and Avocado (no sillicones).

My shampoo method:

Brush well and detangle thoroughly before wetting hair. (I shampoo using a bath chair, in the bent at the waist position).

I have a special method of keeping my hair separated somewhat throughout the entire shampooing/rinsing/conditioning procedure, which helps eliminate a lot of tangling.

A tablespoon of shampoo is mixed with 8 oz warm water, poured over the hair, shampooed throughout the length, then rinsed off.

The next shampoo is the same, except the shampoo is thoroughly massaged on the scalp. My fingers only massage in one direction at a time ..top down, back to front. Thorough rinse with warm water, then the conditioner is poured over my hair, detangling is completed, then a warm rinse, followed by a cold water rinse.

I use my palms to gently squeeze out any excess water, then place the hair in a towel, press the length again thru the towel, then pin the towel around my head for 10 minutes. Undo the towel, gently detangle and airdry. My airdrying method is located in the Articles section:D.

Hi Madora

Great tips ..thank you so much!! I like the idea of the diluting of the shampoo for the lengths and a different approach for the scalp. Your whole approach is very interesting indeed and sounds relatively simple once you get the hang of it. Less is more and so on!!!

One thing, I live in London and I don't know if I could get away with once monthly shampooing ..the air where I live is so polluted. Perhaps the brushing helps with that???

Kapri:p

Maktub
January 26th, 2012, 09:25 AM
Nothing except wear my hair up.

When I shower/bathe, my hair is always covered in a shower cap.

No, when I brush it is just with the brush and nothing applied to my hair.

I do an overnight EVOO treatment the day after the shampoo but that is it as far as my hair is concerned.

I've never clarified or used CO, or WO, or any other combination.

Great information, thank you !

When you say that you do an evoo treatment after the shampoo, that means you don't rinse it out at all ? Do you simply appply evoo to all your hair, and then keep it that way until the next shampoo ? How much do you use ?

I like how simple your routine is !

Also, one thing I find when I don't wash often, is that my scalp become kind of sore to the touch... Do you have this at all between washes ? If not, do you think the brushing is what helps the scalp circulation, and therefore not having any soreness ?



Thanks again !!

Kapri
January 26th, 2012, 09:25 AM
My interpretation is that whichever side your hair normally parts itself on, you should part it on the opposite side.

GM's assumption being that most people's hair naturally falls into a left-sided parting - a generalisation that to me is similar to "most people are right-handed".

I've been to Neil Ward's London GM salon and Neil said I should try to part my hair on the opposite side from the side it naturally fell on - for the reasons already given. Now my hair does want to part on the left (and I'm right-handed ...) but from the way he explained it, he meant the opposite side to one's natural part, be that right or left (going "against the grain" allegedly exercising the hair follicle's muscle).

Hi Tabitha,

I plan to go to Neil after my next hair cut ..simply because it needs a re-shape by my usual hairdresser. Thank you for this. This means that I should part on the left hand side because I usually part on the right. I will make sure it gets cut in such a way that I can part on either side. I do have much more root bounce when it is parted on the left ..but never wear it like that! :)

A. Correira
January 26th, 2012, 09:27 AM
Even if it is true... so what? How many people would want to go out of their way to have the strongest hair? I believe that hair is important and that if it doesn't look good, then you won't feel good. Just because one person claims that certain things are better than others, doesn't mean that one should sacrifice their confidence and hairstyles...

And with the 100 strokes thing... I don't really see how that can help with the health of your hair. Don't get me wrong, I like sitting and combing my hair all the time, but I don't really count strokes.

Kapri
January 26th, 2012, 09:40 AM
Even if it is true... so what? How many people would want to go out of their way to have the strongest hair? I believe that hair is important and that if it doesn't look good, then you won't feel good. Just because one person claims that certain things are better than others, doesn't mean that one should sacrifice their confidence and hairstyles...

And with the 100 strokes thing... I don't really see how that can help with the health of your hair. Don't get me wrong, I like sitting and combing my hair all the time, but I don't really count strokes.

Hi, I think these points have been raised and discussed earlier in the discussion. Secondly, this discussion is for people who are interested in finding out what the GM philosophy is rather than trying to persuade anyone else that they should adopt it ..if you get my drift. It's more about information than debate! Hope that helps:)

Madora
January 26th, 2012, 10:14 AM
Hi Madora

Great tips ..thank you so much!! I like the idea of the diluting of the shampoo for the lengths and a different approach for the scalp. Your whole approach is very interesting indeed and sounds relatively simple once you get the hang of it. Less is more and so on!!!

One thing, I live in London and I don't know if I could get away with once monthly shampooing ..the air where I live is so polluted. Perhaps the brushing helps with that???

Kapri:p

Hello, Kapri,

Yes, exactly, "less is more":) The more stuff you put on your hair, the more it can attract the stuff floating in the air. Also, every time you put something on it, it does leave a slight trace behind (even with plenty of rinsing).

Brushing would help keep the hair cleaner but if you live in an area known for pollution, then you'd probably have to wash when your hair was dirty. Mr. Michael said (in his book) to wash your hair when it needed it.

If you haven't already, you might consider wearing a scarf when you go outdoors for any length of time.

Also, I wash my bbb every day so that I'm not reapplying any lint/dust from the previous day's brushing. It would be a waste of time to just apply a used brush to the hair you're trying to keep cleaner.

Also, for what it's worth, there's a George Michael stylist/practitioner in London..Neil Ward I think his name is.

MissHair
January 26th, 2012, 10:21 AM
What do you all think about Dr. George Michael's philosophy that hair is at its strongest all one length with no bangs?

I absolutely agree with this theory. For the simple reason that everytime I have cut bangs and let them grow out, the hair beside it gets thinned out due to not being supported by the hair I cut as bangs. I sort of don't know how to explain this to you... But the thinner your hair is, the more sensitive it gets. The thicker the hair is, the easier it seems to take care of itself. Take an example like this... Have you noticed how when you brush your hair upside down and put a ponytail on top of your head and you feel the softness of the hairs from your back neck? I think it's because it's being supported and weighed down by the hairs on top of it. The hair around the neckhairs are being supported by the hair around it. I believe the same about bangs. When we cut off the hair, that hair cannot support the hair next to it.

I hope that makes sense but I absolutely believe in this. Ive noticed such a difference in strenght/thickness and general health from not having bangs anymore. I still struggle to grow them out.

Madora
January 26th, 2012, 10:29 AM
Great information, thank you !

When you say that you do an evoo treatment after the shampoo, that means you don't rinse it out at all ? Do you simply appply evoo to all your hair, and then keep it that way until the next shampoo ? How much do you use ?

I like how simple your routine is !

Also, one thing I find when I don't wash often, is that my scalp become kind of sore to the touch... Do you have this at all between washes ? If not, do you think the brushing is what helps the scalp circulation, and therefore not having any soreness ?



Thanks again !!

Hello, Maktub. Re: the EVOO...

The day after shampooing, I apply Bertolli's Extra Virgin Olive Oil (less than 1/4th of a cup) to my dry hair. I just pour it into a dish, then use my fingers to apply it to my hair. Actually, I found that 1/4th was a bit too much..but the thing is, the oiled hair should be damp..but NOT dripping. My hair is then coiled in a loosely braided bun on top of my head.

Next I take 3 large sheets of cling wrap ("Saran Wrap") and wrap them around my head, being sure to cover all the hair..from nape to forehead. The EVOO is left to "cook" throughout the day and night, then shampooed out the next day, followed by a little bit of conditioner for detangling purposes. That is rinsed out well with a cold rinse.

I can't sing the praises of EVOO enough! It provides terrific slip which is wonderful when braiding!

I've never experienced a sore scalp when stretching washes. Of course I brush every day so that could explain why I do not.

I don't know if you brush regularly..or some..or not at all.

If you're thinking about brushing, be sure to always detangle your hair first, then brush in the bent at the waist position, brushing from nape down to the ends. Follow each swipe of your brush with the palm of your other hand. This cuts the static caused by the brushing.

Lastly, if you haven't brushed much (or not at all), then I'd recommend you brushing just a few strokes...say 15 to begin with. If you brush too many strokes when just starting out, your hair follicles (scalp) will HURT because they are not accustomed to being brushed in that direction. You can gradually build up the number of strokes over the next few weeks until you find what works for you.

One more thing: if you find that brushing bent at the waist isn't your thing, then brushing while standing erect is fine too. The brushing at the waist position just gives you more opportunities for better blood circulation around the follicles and your scalp is also "freer" in that position.

Kapri
January 26th, 2012, 10:52 AM
Hello, Kapri,

Yes, exactly, "less is more":) The more stuff you put on your hair, the more it can attract the stuff floating in the air. Also, every time you put something on it, it does leave a slight trace behind (even with plenty of rinsing).

Brushing would help keep the hair cleaner but if you live in an area known for pollution, then you'd probably have to wash when your hair was dirty. Mr. Michael said (in his book) to wash your hair when it needed it.

If you haven't already, you might consider wearing a scarf when you go outdoors for any length of time.

Also, I wash my bbb every day so that I'm not reapplying any lint/dust from the previous day's brushing. It would be a waste of time to just apply a used brush to the hair you're trying to keep cleaner.

Also, for what it's worth, there's a George Michael stylist/practitioner in London..Neil Ward I think his name is.

Thank you Madora! You are another wealth of useful information. I am going to read the bbb thread at the weekend and decide whether to splash out on a de-luxe version (Maison Pearson paddle brush or whatever) or go more basic.

I plan to visit Neil Ward but not until after the next cut. I trust my hair stylist to trim my hair and she can also blend it etc etc Then a couple of months later I will go to Neil for a consult and trim.

I hadn't thought of scarves for town..excellent idea!

Have a great day/evening (almost 6pm here!)

Kapri
January 26th, 2012, 10:54 AM
I absolutely agree with this theory. For the simple reason that everytime I have cut bangs and let them grow out, the hair beside it gets thinned out due to not being supported by the hair I cut as bangs. I sort of don't know how to explain this to you... But the thinner your hair is, the more sensitive it gets. The thicker the hair is, the easier it seems to take care of itself. Take an example like this... Have you noticed how when you brush your hair upside down and put a ponytail on top of your head and you feel the softness of the hairs from your back neck? I think it's because it's being supported and weighed down by the hairs on top of it. The hair around the neckhairs are being supported by the hair around it. I believe the same about bangs. When we cut off the hair, that hair cannot support the hair next to it.

I hope that makes sense but I absolutely believe in this. Ive noticed such a difference in strenght/thickness and general health from not having bangs anymore. I still struggle to grow them out.
Hi, Very interesting. My hairline near my fringe is very weak as are my growing out layers..where the hair is thickest (especially the under layers) it is in the best condition!! Fascinating. Thank you Miss Hair:)

MissHair
January 26th, 2012, 11:09 AM
Hi, Very interesting. My hairline near my fringe is very weak as are my growing out layers..where the hair is thickest (especially the under layers) it is in the best condition!! Fascinating. Thank you Miss Hair:)

No prob. :) As much as I love bangs, I always regret cutting them for this specific reason.

Kapri
January 26th, 2012, 11:24 AM
Miss Hair,

I really suit a fringe/bangs so it is a big issue for me to grow it down. I am growing it down at the moment. But I am interested in this hair strength business!!

Kapri

ravenheather
February 27th, 2012, 06:16 PM
I have a question. What kind of rinse are they talking about after conditioning? I read that somewhere talking about gm's trinity concept.

Diamond.Eyes
February 27th, 2012, 09:43 PM
Ever since Madora recommended a pure boar bristle brush to me, I have been using it daily; following the 100 strokes a day philosophy. I have found that my hair tangles less, is very silky, and I don't have to wash it as often. :) I hope to one day visit a GM salon and try out some of the products :D.

Miss Catrina
February 29th, 2012, 09:12 PM
My question about the brushing method is, how is it affecting anything but the hair/follicles at the nape of the neck? Since it's prescribed to be done at the nape, bent over.

Madora
March 1st, 2012, 12:29 PM
My question about the brushing method is, how is it affecting anything but the hair/follicles at the nape of the neck? Since it's prescribed to be done at the nape, bent over.

The brushing affects all the hair follicles, not those just at the nape. You brush all around the head. Also, every time you brush, you're distributing the hair's natural sebum down through the strands, plus the natural oil from the palm of your hand as you stroke down the hair that has just been brushed.

Silverbrumby
March 1st, 2012, 12:33 PM
I don't think BBB'ing works for my fine, tangly dry hair. If I wet bun it, put cones and oil on and treat is just right then brushing it feels good. Otherwise it feels like I'm tearing my fine, frizzy, curling hair.

heidi w.
March 1st, 2012, 12:59 PM
This is a somewhat older thread being resurrected. I want to explain George Michael's Theory of Equilibrium which concerns the subject of having or not having bangs or fringe as some term it.

His book covers this concept at some length. He is NOT saying that hair with bangs will not grow. He is saying that the full length it could grow is compromised. He uses 2 examples: the story of the Sutherland Sisters (7 sisters with floor length hair who eventually cut in bangs in their hair as was the fashion at the time) and the story of some kind of experiment he did on a dog, shaving one flank (hind leg on the side) and not the other.

I am not disagreeing or agreeing. I am merely explaining the concept so that people understand his idea specifically. His claim is that when one grows their hair long and then or earlier on cuts in bangs that somehow this is known by the hair follicles. That on the head there are two extreme measurements: one short (bangs) and one long (hair length). And he proposes that hair growth is curtailed as a way of equalizing or balancing, if you will, between the two extremes. That hair just won't grow quite as long. The head of hair tries to balance things out.

He claims the Sutherland Sisters lost some length among all of them from cutting in bangs, even though their hair was still quite long and somewhat thick and voluminous by heredity. He claims the dog didn't quite grow in as thickly as the other flank.

All this is explained in his book.

Another thing, all the things we purport here for quality hair care is indeed in Dr. George Michael's hair care book. The idea of trimming, the idea of dusting, the idea of detangling with a comb, how to boar bristle brush, brushing for the nape of the neck, hair forward. He talks about full hair and scalp washing. He discusses keeping hair length under a coat when hair is loose and out in the elements. Pretty much all of it is there, alongside his opinion about long hair and beautiful women.

I know a few women who've met him. I've never had the luxury. I just went to the Madora salon in NY and received a trim and a beautiful updo. It is claimed he's a bit tough on hair and not always very nice to the women. I believe them. He hails from an "older school" European background that is a very different attitude and culture from the U.S. and what's present in Europe now.

His name continues for a reason. His ideas have withstood the test of time. The first thing his book covers is the subject of nutrition. I don't know of any other stylist that discusses nutrition at all.

I wish you all the opportunity to attend a GM salon. It's quite an experience and unlike any other salon experience you will have. But know this: you cannot just show up and get a treatment. You MUST make an appointment first, and then show up On Time. Don't be late. And bring money and loads of time--at least 2 hours.

One can order their products online, but I submit that it's best to learn from the purveyors how to use those products. Several are intended to be used with a heat cap and a low heat setting, for example. How hair is rolled matters also. Hair is generally rolled onto large barrel rollers, and rolled under to create a straighter look to the hair. There are specific details to know for every product. It's unlike any other system you may be aware of, and it's not another wash and condition place, such as buying it off the shelf and do what you've always done.

Boar Bristle Brushing: has several benefits. One that is not enumerated in this thread is the idea of imparting a sheen to the hair length. I believe the 100 strokes a day arose because this was the era of BBB's for men and women's hair. Generally, the more one brushes with a BBB the softer and a bit shinier the hair becomes. One should pre-detangle the hair with a comb, and if encountering a tangle while BBBing, one should work that out with fingers or a detangling comb, NOT a BBB. When the tangle is removed and hair re-aligned, then continue to BBB. One brushes from the top down and one will need to brush topside and underside of the hair separately. The brush is allowed to rather glide somewhat on top of the hair. This is how oils are distributed: oils or sebum. It will flatten the bounce in scalp hair, hair closest to the scalp. So I personally do not usually BBB the hair in this area. I have flatness on top naturally. No need to cake it down. I personally have never counted my brushstrokes. That seems just a bit too fussy for my taste. I think the idea of 100 strokes was just a maxim to reliably ensure soft and shiny hair. Two downstrokes won't produce those results, really. It's just a measurement tool to help guide one, I think.

I hope I've been of help. I have noticed that curlier hair types have a problem BBBing, but Mr. GM did it. All his favored long haired women had a bit of body to their hair, unlike my hair which possesses absolutely no body whatsoever.


ETA: For anyone who does not know The Sutherland Sisters, here's a few links, some with photographs:

http://www.damncoolpictures.com/2008/02/seven-sutherland-sisters-with-worlds.html
This is one site with photos of each of the sisters, plus photos of the whole family, including from the back.

http://new.yankeemagazine.com/article/amazing-seven-sutherland-sisters-and-their-niagara-curls
More text on their story than pictures.
heidi w.

heidi w.
March 1st, 2012, 01:11 PM
Well then that is a miracle performed by a brush, products and possibly a blowdryer.
Because to actually improves the health of someones hair it would take at least months :)

I believe GM's salon name was also Madora?
I passed by it once.

It was known as George Michael, and he built a licensing structure for using the trademarked name. Now, the NY salon was given over to Maria, his assistant for approximately 35 years and she still follows his system, as I understand it. When she took over she re-named it Madora, I believe. That's how Madora came into being, I think yet not super duper puper positive.

Just as the GM salon in Columbus, Ohio is named Enchantress.

But the Beverly Hills, California salon is named Sassoon Salon, I saw on one website, allthough I am not sure. Despite the unique naming it's a George Michael affiliated salon. There's a licensing agreement going on to allow the use of the GM name.

heidi w.

bedazzlecat
March 1st, 2012, 02:02 PM
I rub coconut oil into my bbb and use that to apply the oil to my length. In my experience sebum stays close to my scalp no matter how much I brush. Anyone else do that?

Littlewing13
March 1st, 2012, 02:29 PM
As far as all one length... no not really. Though I suppose in theory layers exposes more hair to the elements, mechanical damage etc (ie, one length hair has more hairs surrounding it at the same length , therefore protecting it). So i suppose in that sense...

BBB doesnt work for me as ive previously lightened my hair. I think if your cuticle is raised then it will cause damage. On virgin hair i suppose it works fine.

I think it all really depends on the hair type. You just cant generalise that one technique will work for everyone. If you want bangs, have them. I dont think it will make that huge a difference. I know were all about long hair but when you start getting paranoid about every single individual strand & measuring to less than a cm in accuracy it starts getting OTT. You gotta live. Thats my opinion.

heidi w.
March 1st, 2012, 02:37 PM
I rub coconut oil into my bbb and use that to apply the oil to my length. In my experience sebum stays close to my scalp no matter how much I brush. Anyone else do that?

I have often rubbed coconut oil in my BBB, but I don't do that anymore.

Sebum should stay relatively close to the scalp. That's its function to be a kind of thin layer on the scalp skin to protect the skin and hair follicles a bit. Sebum is natural and on everyone's skin and scalp skin. It's part of the Acid Mantle. Info on that can be found online. Fairly consistent info across various websites. The longest sebum may go down hair length is approximately 6 inches, give or take, and you have to not wash the hair for around two weeks to see it. It takes a while for it to go down any hair length. Further, sebum is not an "oil". It is a waxy ester.

heidi w.

sfgirl
March 1st, 2012, 05:08 PM
I agree with his theory about one length. I got bangs when when I was 17, and tried to grow them out but the area seemed way thinner than it was before. So of course I decide to get bangs when I'm 19. I think for fine hairs, it's easy to forget also that those areas around your face can add to your circumference.

jacqueline101
March 2nd, 2012, 03:10 PM
I have a natural taper I think I should leave it as far as my bangs go I love them.

Changling
March 2nd, 2012, 03:48 PM
On the one hand, Dr. George Michael definitely knows his sh*t - he seems to combine "old wive's tales" (which have some basis in truth imo) with the scientific method.

On the other hand, we do definitely have hairs of all lengths all the time - hairs break off no matter how careful we are, and new hairs grow in. So I'm not sure about the layers/bangs(fringe) slowing hair growth thing. Also I wonder if he was maybe not being super literal about the 100 brush strokes thing. Like maybe he just meant to brush it thoroughly.

icallitbliss
March 2nd, 2012, 03:52 PM
I had bangs when I was a kid, and my hair grew to way past BSL, the longest I've ever had in my life. I don't think it makes much difference, except for the fact that with layers the hair isn't as is thick, as opposed to all one-length.

Maktub
March 2nd, 2012, 04:20 PM
Question, if anyone knows :

Would he have encouraged someone with layers / bangs / V or U ends ... to chop hair to one blunt length and grow hair long from there to have the best hair possile ?

Madora
March 2nd, 2012, 04:31 PM
Question, if anyone knows :

Would he have encouraged someone with layers / bangs / V or U ends ... to chop hair to one blunt length and grow hair long from there to have the best hair possile ?

Dr. Michael believed that one length hair looked best. He probably would have suggested to his client to cut it thus. He did not cut layers at his salon. His blunt cuts were not straight across but cut so that it gave the appearance of a very slight U..like this:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=6554&pictureid=87268

Piyo
March 2nd, 2012, 05:04 PM
....is that your hair Madora? I don't know what to say, it looks so perfect it doesn't even seem real!:thudpile:

Though I am growing out layers and currently have bangs, it makes sense to me that hair one length would be stronger. I did not like getting split ends at so many different lengths, either.

Madora
March 2nd, 2012, 05:28 PM
....is that your hair Madora? I don't know what to say, it looks so perfect it doesn't even seem real!:thudpile:

Though I am growing out layers and currently have bangs, it makes sense to me that hair one length would be stronger. I did not like getting split ends at so many different lengths, either.

Yes, it is, 1982..first visit to the GM salon in NYC. Thanks for the compliment!

The longer your hair grows, the stronger the follicle becomes. And hair of one length is a lot easier to inspect for split ends, not to mention doing S and D!

Vanilla
March 2nd, 2012, 06:49 PM
I recently got a trim and treatment at the Madora-George Michael Salon in NYC, and my hair has never looked better.

The last time I grew my hair to waist length, it was a blunt cut, similar to what George Michael advocates. I think his philosophy is working for my hair.

ratgirldjh
March 2nd, 2012, 06:56 PM
I rub coconut oil into my bbb and use that to apply the oil to my length. In my experience sebum stays close to my scalp no matter how much I brush. Anyone else do that?

Be careful with this if you have a BBB that has a rubber pad. I had a brush that had a rubber pad and I did this every night and the rubber warped!!! Thank goodness I didn't do it to my more expensive Mason Pearson! I have since bought an all wood BBB and now I can do this without worry. I do have to clean it more often though but the brush bristles seem to enjoy it as does my hair.

Madora
March 2nd, 2012, 08:08 PM
I recently got a trim and treatment at the Madora-George Michael Salon in NYC, and my hair has never looked better.

The last time I grew my hair to waist length, it was a blunt cut, similar to what George Michael advocates. I think his philosophy is working for my hair.

Glad to hear the GM philosophy is working for you, Vanilla!

Vanilla
March 3rd, 2012, 08:38 AM
Glad to hear the GM philosophy is working for you, Vanilla!

Thanks Madora :). Couldn't have taken the plunge into his methods without your expert advice.!

Annalouise
March 3rd, 2012, 09:19 AM
Does anyone know what Mr. Michael suggests regarding greying hair? Is his advise to just let it go grey, or does he allow for dying or hennaing the hair?

My hair is starting to go grey so I'm having a dilemna about this right now.:)

By the way, I also cut my hair blunt as per his recommendations. I don't have any layers or bangs. I think this is the best way for the hair also.

Oh by the way, when I went to a stylist last summer I asked for a blunt cut and she cut a 1" layer in the bottom of my hair. That is the LAST time I go to a professional for a cut. She said "oh, your hair is wavy so I won't cut it blunt, you need some graduation at the bottom." I should have just left the salon.

Madora
March 3rd, 2012, 09:24 AM
Does anyone know what Mr. Michael suggests regarding greying hair? Is his advise to just let it go grey, or does he allow for dying or hennaing the hair?

My hair is starting to go grey so I'm having a dilemna about this right now.:)

By the way, I also cut my hair blunt as per his recommendations. I don't have any layers or bangs. I think this is the best way for the hair also.

Oh by the way, when I went to a stylist last summer I asked for a blunt cut and she cut a 1" layer in the bottom of my hair. That is the LAST time I go to a professional for a cut. She said "oh, your hair is wavy so I won't cut it blunt, you need some graduation at the bottom." I should have just left the salon.

Annalouise, Mr. Michael was in favor of naturally gray hair (as per his book).

However, you might want to pm Ktani and ask about catnip rinses for hiding gray. She's very knowledgeable about natural hair care.

ETA: Link to Ktani's catnip article http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=118

Annalouise
March 3rd, 2012, 09:44 AM
Ok, thanks Madora. I think perhaps it is just best to go grey. I feel that even henna might damage the hair as it lifts the hair cuticle. And so it is damage to some extent as well.

I don't think I would bother with tea rinses. As soon as one shampoos their hair the tea rinse will wash out. (from personal experience). So it demands reapplication after every wash.

Madora
March 3rd, 2012, 09:58 AM
Ok, thanks Madora. I think perhaps it is just best to go grey. I feel that even henna might damage the hair as it lifts the hair cuticle. And so it is damage to some extent as well.

I don't think I would bother with tea rinses. As soon as one shampoos their hair the tea rinse will wash out. (from personal experience). So it demands reapplication after every wash.

Delighted that you're going to embrace your grey, Annalouise. You'll find plenty of support over on the Salt and Pepper thread.

Grey hair can be very beautiful too! Many years ago I saw a client at the NYC GM salon who had the most gorgeous platinum silver hair I've ever seen. It was about mid back and positively glowed! It was stunning!

Annalouise
March 3rd, 2012, 10:03 AM
Thanks Madora, for your support. I have also noticed some women with white hair that looked like the most beautiful snow!
Perhaps nature knows what she's doing!;)

rowie
March 3rd, 2012, 10:04 AM
Here you go Madora! I know that you have mentioned that you did not get to attend Cindy Christian's hair cutting. Well now you can be there! Here is the link to Cindy's big cut with Dr. Michael.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wo7zU1hRmo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Annalouise
March 3rd, 2012, 10:21 AM
I wonder if she regretted her decision?

Madora
March 3rd, 2012, 10:31 AM
Here you go Madora! I know that you have mentioned that you did not get to attend Cindy Christian's hair cutting. Well now you can be there! Here is the link to Cindy's big cut with Dr. Michael.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wo7zU1hRmo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Rowie, I'm mystified how you thought that I mentioned that I didn't attend Ms. Christian's hair cutting. I never knew anything about it!

The first part of that video was taken from a CBS news story many years ago (the original video was much longer).

Many years later I'd read that Ms. Christian had cut her hair..but never knew that it was Mr. Michael himself who had done the cutting!

I was sorry to see that she had decided to cut her fabulous hair..but so glad that she had someone do it who realized how she had treasured her hair, and did not treat it like garbage and just whack it off with no thought of what it represented to its owner.

Great to see glimpses of the familiar NYC salon..and Maria Matarazzo (the real Madora!).

Thanks very much for sharing!

Madora
March 3rd, 2012, 10:35 AM
I wonder if she regretted her decision?

I wonder too. I'll bet you dollars to donuts she probably saved her tresses...maybe she even had them made into a hairpiece. It certainly was hair worth keeping!

rowie
March 3rd, 2012, 10:39 AM
Annibelle, I've never seen anyone with layers at a GM salon. But I do know that he did not like layers because he believed one length hair was best.

I did see other ladies get their hair trimmed, however, and they always treated the customer with respect and the hair was trimmed carefully and thoughtfully. No "treat it like garbage" at the GM salon! If you wanted your hair saved, they saved it for you.

And while I wasn't there when it happened, Cindy Christian, who had the most amazing hair I've ever seen (past floor length), had her hair cut short at the GM salon.

Here you go Madora! This was the quote I was referring to from a while back. I hope this brings back memories. :eyebrows:

rowie
March 3rd, 2012, 10:40 AM
At first I did not know who Cindy was, and then I looked her up in Youtube. So thanks to you, I now know who she is.

rowie
March 3rd, 2012, 10:42 AM
Oh yeah to be more precise it's on page. 14 in the thread.

Madora
March 3rd, 2012, 11:23 AM
Here you go Madora! This was the quote I was referring to from a while back. I hope this brings back memories. :eyebrows:

Thanks very much, rowie! Now I see what you meant! Glad you were able to see Miss Christian's incredible hair!

When the CBS video clip aired so many years ago I couldn't get to my VCR fast enough! I sat there, entranced, watching Cindy as she combed her hair, braided it, and walked thru the mall, while bystanders gawked..some incredulously, others admiringly.

I kind of chuckled at Mr. Michael...I think he was heart broken that she wanted it cut...he sure adored long hair! But he did it with love, and that made all the difference! He understood that cutting long hair is more than the action of scissors snipping away! The GM staff treats everyone's hair with respect..whether its down to the floor or barely past their ears.

Thanks again, rowie. I really enjoyed seeing Mr. Michael and Maria again. You made my day!

LadyCelestina
August 23rd, 2014, 05:39 AM
I'm sorry for bringing this old thread up,just wanted to re-read some things after lovely Madora gave me some great tips on styling the hair.

There was a post about how he once shaved a dog and the dogs fur didn't grow back the same.I wonder what kind of dog it was,since I have a poodle and he gets his coat cut in some places.The fur always grow back the same way and same length and has done so for 13 years.I don't let him grow into his fur 'terminal',but he only gets his fur trimmed around his face in the winter and some dreadlocks and mats.

I also think if pure breed poodles that attend shows didn't grow their beautiful manes once cut in some places,the classic poodle lion cut would die.

Timea
August 23rd, 2014, 06:37 AM
I'm sorry for bringing this old thread up,just wanted to re-read some things after lovely Madora gave me some great tips on styling the hair.

There was a post about how he once shaved a dog and the dogs fur didn't grow back the same.I wonder what kind of dog it was,since I have a poodle and he gets his coat cut in some places.The fur always grow back the same way and same length and has done so for 13 years.I don't let him grow into his fur 'terminal',but he only gets his fur trimmed around his face in the winter and some dreadlocks and mats.

I also think if pure breed poodles that attend shows didn't grow their beautiful manes once cut in some places,the classic poodle lion cut would die.

i also think that should be taken with a grain of salt. i had a cat with long hair and we cut part of it and the parts we didn't cut didn't fall out or anything. maybe he tried it on one dog and that dog had some problem. he also relates some story about some girls with long hair who joined the circus and got frindge and then their got shorter after that, but maybe their hair was taking more wear and tear in the circus and that's why. who knows if it was the fringe or not, you know?

edit: also it is impossible for all the hairs on your head to be the same length because you are always shedding a few and new ones are growing in so you will always have hair of all different lengths all over your head so i don't see why it would make a difference if some of them were cut shorter on purpose

Madora
August 23rd, 2014, 08:02 AM
I'm sorry for bringing this old thread up,just wanted to re-read some things after lovely Madora gave me some great tips on styling the hair.

There was a post about how he once shaved a dog and the dogs fur didn't grow back the same.I wonder what kind of dog it was,since I have a poodle and he gets his coat cut in some places.The fur always grow back the same way and same length and has done so for 13 years.I don't let him grow into his fur 'terminal',but he only gets his fur trimmed around his face in the winter and some dreadlocks and mats.

I also think if pure breed poodles that attend shows didn't grow their beautiful manes once cut in some places,the classic poodle lion cut would die.

LadyCelestina, here's the material from Mr. Michael's book:

"Chapter 8 - The Kindest Cuts of All - page 121 - The Case for One-length Hair

Heads mutilated by razor-directed step cuts are stepchildren to me...until I can adopt them and "father" them along until they have my kind of hair. I don't believe in layered cuts for many reasons--some of them aesthetic and some of them scientific. Bangs, for example, are one of my worst bete noires.

Try this "laboratory" test yourself if you want to prove the facts about uneven hair lengths. Take a small mammal that doesn't shed, such as a poodle dog, and shave one leg. Within two or three weeks he will begin to drop the hair on the other leg in nature's own equalization pattern.

An extreme example of this compensation is seen in the story of the seven Sutherland sisters, daughters of Fletcher Sutherland, who was a preacher in Niagara Falls around the turn of the century. The sisters all had magnificent long hair--a combined length of 49 feet, which made each girl's mane more than floor length since each was only about 5 feet tall.

Circus owners convinced Mr. Sutherland to let his daughters become part of the traveling show (and in fact, they eventually developed a special and useless hair tonic for people who wanted the same fantastic hair). Unfortunately, the Sutherland sisters could not be called beautiful, with one exception, the sister named Ethel. Only their hair was beautiful. So some promoters decided to enhance the girls' faces by cutting little fringes and bangs and short sides on all the sisters except Ethel. Very soon, the hair went through the process of equalization: one sister's hair shrank to the knees; on the other girls the shrinkage was even greater because bangs or the sides of the hair had been drastically cut. Within a year, the total length of all the sisters' hair was 29 feet.

Although I ran across this case history as long ago as 1936 when I was pursuing my medical studies, this phenomenon has often been reported, but never explained. In my own salon I have seen hundreds of instances of what I call equalization. Nature has that equilibrium to stabilze hair length all over the head."

LadyCelestina
August 23rd, 2014, 08:33 AM
That is not true.My dog had one leg shaved a couple months ago due to bloodwork being done.He didn't shed.It's a poodle as I said.

ETA: at least it was not true in this case.

ETA 2: We have carpets,our dog is light in colour and I wear black.I'm going to check his fur right now.

LadyCelestina
August 23rd, 2014, 08:36 AM
His one other front leg is as furry as his back legs and the shave pattern is still visible on the leg which was shaved to the skin - as required for blood taking.

LadyCelestina
August 23rd, 2014, 08:44 AM
And if it was true,this is a poodle cut http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E11TqS_maYk/TWXJLtjvMqI/AAAAAAAAAU4/ijPdxS6fWdo/s1600/poodle.jpg
You can see how much is shaved off,yet how big the front mane remains.
As I said: if it was true,people with poodles who go to shows would be well aware of that.There's also an English cut where the front legs are shaved but the back legs are cut into two or three little balls.The back legs don't mind the shaved front legs.


ETA: It might work for hair but not for poodles in my opinion.That being said I have experience with one poodle.Someone who has experience with a bunch of poodles might say something else.

ETA: I'm up for a test.I will cut the fur off of one of his back legs and wait for the shed.He needs a trim anyway.


Another ETA: Just had a though.Perhaps he did this test on a pup or a young dog ?

lilin
August 23rd, 2014, 10:34 AM
Well, I suppose in a general way, more hairs hold more weight than fewer hairs. So if you were to tie 10 pounds to the ends of my longest layer, which is only a minority of my hair, it wouldn't be as strong as if I had a blunt hemline and the vast majority of my hair was holding up that 10 pounds.

But as others said, there's no such thing as completely uniform hair length. You have hairs in all stages of growth at any given time -- just sprouting, still growing, and falling out. That's why most people eventually get fairy ends, especially if they're nearing terminal. Some of the hairs that were growing when they were at shoulder have fallen out now that they're at hip, and it makes their ends less thick.

I don't buy that the 100 strokes thing is true of everyone. I know it's not true of me. My hair is very, very fine and quite delicate. I would never brush it again with a BBB, and I would never do more strokes than necessarily with my comb. The more I mess with it, the more it breaks, period.

Getting sebum down to help protect the hair is good, but you can achieve the same thing by using a less harsh washing method, only washing the roots, and maybe using a drop or two of oil. That's far less handling, and thus far less opportunity for damage, than brushing it 100 times.

sarahthegemini
August 23rd, 2014, 11:03 AM
He sounds like an absolute quack.

LadyCelestina
August 23rd, 2014, 11:52 AM
^^lilin,I agree :D I just disagree about the poodles :D

chen bao jun
August 23rd, 2014, 01:17 PM
I don't think he was a quack, although my brother has a poodle, and that is wrong about poodles. I think he was not a scientist, and he had his little quirks, like disliking bangs and came up with this 'reason' for it. I think he did know how to take excellent care of one particular hairtype, silky hair that was either straight or wavy. I don't think he had a clue about curly hair. But I think, as the example of Madora's wonderful hair shows, you do get excellent results if you follow his advice about caring for the hairtype that he did know about.

I also think that his salon and books being in existence were a wonderful thing for women who loved their long hair during a period when there was just not that much support for growing hair to extreme lengths. I lived back during the 60's and 70's and it was chop, chop, style, style, hairspray, etc. even more than now (with the exception of the hippiew, both M and F, and mainstream society did think they were unkempt).

animetor7
August 23rd, 2014, 01:57 PM
I think that like most other "hair philosophies" on LHC ymmv! I think this should be the main slogan to think of when looking into any sort of new hair treatment with the exception of obviously damaging things like heat-styling, rough handling and excessive use of sulfates. So look into his philosophy, but take it with a grain of salt, if it works for you, great! If not, don't worry about it, there are plenty of other hair-care methods to be found and one will work for you. :)

molljo
August 23rd, 2014, 02:03 PM
I don't think he was a quack, although my brother has a poodle, and that is wrong about poodles. I think he was not a scientist, and he had his little quirks, like disliking bangs and came up with this 'reason' for it.
(snip)

I just read through this entire thread, and Chen's bit I quoted, I think, sums up a lot of the stuff that seems like bunk. He had preferences and made up some silliness to justify it. Someone mentioned he was a "ladies' man", and that, coupled with the fact that his methods only really work for certain textures, I think that it's clear he had a "type" of woman he found attractive and built a career around those women. Part of me bristles at the idea of a straight man dictating to women what they *must* do to obtain beautiful hair (in his eyes) through his method, not to mention tough luck to women who he thought had no potential to have beautiful hair (curlies).

Madora
August 23rd, 2014, 05:21 PM
Dr. Michael was not a quack.

He handled all types of hair in his salon. He knew hair inside out...and then some. He welcomed anyone into his salon, no matter their hair type, no matter the length or damage. He explained what he did and it was up to the client to go along with his theories or not.

He called himself a "dictator" at one point. He also acknowledged that he learned other hair care values from his clients. He loved all types of hair..not just thick and long.

His outlook may be "old fashioned" and maybe "narrow" but you must realize that he came from a different background (he was born in Russia) and the time he lived was quite different from this era. His clients loved what he did for their hair..and came back, year after year. There was no malarky in what he offered. He didn't make wild assertions that their hair would be like "x" in two weeks time. He explained how his hair care worked and what the client had to do in order to achieve it. They weren't forced to kowtow only to his methods..but his were hair friendly and time tested.

His salon was a rare thing back then...and now...a long hair haven in a world of short styles. People came to him frantic with their hair stories. He calmed them and together they'd work on a plan to restore the hair to health. He was the real deal when it came to caring for healthy, beautiful hair..of all types!

chen bao jun
August 23rd, 2014, 05:55 PM
He sounds like he was a pleasure to know, Madora and as if going to his salon was quite an experience.
My impression was that he did not know much about hypercurly hair such as mine, but perhaps that is wrong. I read somewhere that he said that this hairtype would not grow long, but perhaps he was misquoted. I know that that was, and is, many peoples' opinions though, including that of most people with this hairtype. And in fact, if you try to brush my hair it will look frizzy and terrible, and then it will break off. That is just the nature of it. So I think his method is not for me. However, I admire your results and your hair very much and I appreciate you sharing your photos and memories on this forum. I did not mean to offend you with my post.

Gertrude
August 23rd, 2014, 07:08 PM
I am sure GM was a very caring hairdresser who was very encouraging to women who wanted to get/keep long hair when that wasn't at all fashionable. From the enthusiasm and zeal that Mr Ward in the London salon still has decades after GM's death and the many, many clients who still loyally visit the various GM salons in their nineties it is clear that GM was a great hairdresser.

And he wrote books and talked. It's obvious from the book I have, the Secrets to beautiful hair, that GM didn't know about type 4 hair. And he confidently quotes facts about African hair that are not true.

The dog thing and the bangs is sort of true for long-haired cats. I fostered many for a cat rehoming charity, and if they were spayed in the wrong time of year, say the spring, the hair that grew back would be summer-coat and shorter and not really regain full length and lustre until the winter. On short haired cats it never made any difference when you did it. They also moult in spring but their guard hairs are the same length. Also people who have had chemotherapy and lost their hair sometimes report hair that was straight becoming curly and hair that was curly becoming straight.

But really GM liked long, swishy, one length hair.

Which should never be centre parted. It makes you look like an idiot. Ehhhhhhhhhh, no, but long one length centrally parted hair can make you look like a hippie. Which GM didn't like. The salons cater to women only and fortunately women aren't the only people with beautiful long hair.

On the various science things I will say that as Madora pointed out GM was born in a different time and different country than the US.

I was born to parents who were 50 and 54. I am 43 so they were about the same time as GM. I am left-handed, left-eyed and left-footed. So what you say, this is a hair forum. But my point is that my parents believed that it was scientifically proven, they had the book the Master Hand by Dr. A Blau to prove it, that left-handed children just chose the wrong hand out of obstinacy. And it led to criminality. And that you could change these recalcitrant off-spring onto the righteous path of right-handedness. They sure tried! I spent a lot of time with my hand tied behind my back at school but I am still as left-sided and sinister. Left in Latin (-; People spoke with authority and confidence and with scientific credentials on lots of subjects, including hair, with theories that DNA and other new proven science show to be bunkum.

My father as it happened knew a lot about war-time and post war Europe. GM didn't sound distinctively Russian from the short film I saw on Youtube and didn't look it. His last name is the very, very common all over Eastern Europe. Nothing is known about his immigration papers. I have no doubt that he saw horrors, not the ones he described probably, but horrors and came from behind the Iron Curtain. I don't think he was a doctor any more than the other many doctors in cosmetic firms in Europe. He definitely was no plastic surgeon. Doctors anyway get a couple of lectures on dermatology, unless they specialise, and hair is but a sub-set of dermatology medically speaking. There's a well known trichologist in the UK who sells far worse myths about sebum being a dirt that harms hair and who sells gallons of the daily shampoos and the special " elasticiser" pre-wash treatment. At high prices. Cosmetics are formulated by chemists, with degrees in chemistry. That also goes for the ones sold in dermatologists' offices. Miaow. Dr. whatever inspires confidence, is reassuring, lends gravitas.........Practically every line of cosmetics post war, in Europe, was headed by Dr. Somebody.

I can't think it would be remotely easy to start over, thousands of miles away, with just your personal gifts of personality and the knowledge you acquired, and arrive a nobody, no matter what you were before, and make a go of things and get to be the spokesman for Clairor and get to open a hair salon in Manhattan which is still going today. He was pretty remarkable without adding Russian nobility and making pronouncements on scientific truths and what not. He liked women, celebrities or not, he did long hair, he did it very well, but ultimately he did hair.

Which cannot be healed. It is not a broken leg. You can make it look and feel better and change the client's behaviour so new hair growing in is healthier and happier but it cannot be healed. And hair does not feel if it is cut in layers or not.

Bangs used to be cut so a lot of volume was taken out of the body of the hair, and layers weren't subtle and hacked away in the early 1980s. So growing them out would make your hair feel much fuller and thicker.

My mother, rest her soul, had hair that grew fast, was a medium in texture, and held a curl well. First I had no hair, just down for ages, and then whitish plucks of hair, and then very pale blonde and very fine hair. She was terribly disappointed and her hair-dresser, who was not GM, assured her that cutting off all my hair would make it grow in thicker and stronger. So he cut it very, very short every three months. " Bwahahahahaa BALD!!!! " the children would shout at school. My hair did get thicker but not less fine. It's not bad hair that can be corrected. It's just hair.

If GM would have given people hair growing pills and tablets and potions, or performed scary procedures on them with his " medical qualifications" he would to me have been a quack. He never did any harm.
He did hair, just hair.

And if his techniques work for you you surely will have lovely hair. Like Madora does and many others. But you can have lovely hair and follow many techniques.

chen bao jun
August 23rd, 2014, 07:32 PM
Years from now, people will laugh at at least some of the things we believe now, its easy to be smart with hindsight. I spent my teens and my twenties seething mad at my mother for all the 'wrong' things she did (including not knowing how to take care of my type of curly hair and having it hotpressed, which I hated). Then I had my own kids and started out being 'smarter' than she was--but soon found out I wasn't at all as smart. I admire her a lot now and treasure her and her advice. I agree with what Gertrude says above, George Michael never harmed anybody and helped a lot of women keep their long hair beautiful in a time when it wasn't 'fashionable'. His techniques really do work, as Madora can attest. It's okay that they wouldn't work for me. I respect him anyway and I don't care if he knew anything about poodles, he did know about women's hair, which was his job.
And I personally always knew hypercurlies could grow long hair because my grandmother and my aunts had gorgeous long hair--Somehow, they knew LHC habits long before LHC. Wash with no sulphates (they used aloe vera from a plant in the backyard); keep it in protective styles (they were always braided or bunned or in a braided bun), no heat, no chmeicals and trim 1/2 inch only once a year. They said that this trim had to be on June 21, St. John the Baptist Day--but hey, no one is right about everything, that doesn't mean that they are wrong about everything either, as the example of Dr. George Michael shows--He COULD have really been a doctor, and he could also really have been Russian nobility. Lots of people were who ended up driving taxis and hauling trash, kudos to him for building a new life and doing something that earned him respect and did others good--
That's all I have to say on the subject.

Madora
August 23rd, 2014, 09:35 PM
He sounds like he was a pleasure to know, Madora and as if going to his salon was quite an experience.
My impression was that he did not know much about hypercurly hair such as mine, but perhaps that is wrong. I read somewhere that he said that this hairtype would not grow long, but perhaps he was misquoted. I know that that was, and is, many peoples' opinions though, including that of most people with this hairtype. And in fact, if you try to brush my hair it will look frizzy and terrible, and then it will break off. That is just the nature of it. So I think his method is not for me. However, I admire your results and your hair very much and I appreciate you sharing your photos and memories on this forum. I did not mean to offend you with my post.

Chen bao jun, I doubt you could offend anyone! :)

Just for clarification, here's what Dr. Michael (who was not into plastic surgery as far as I know!) said in his book:

"For example, you never see Negroid hair down to the knees because by its very structure, the hair is too kinky, too porous."

I'm glad you found a method of caring for your hair that you find practical. That's really what it's all about...finding what works for you.

hanne jensen
August 26th, 2014, 05:07 AM
I have questions concerning brushing with a BBB. I recently purchased a Mason Pearson brush that is half nylon and half boar bristles. It's the smaller size as I couldn't afford the paddle size. Is this ok to use?

After reading the first 15 pages of this thread yesterday I tried brushing my hair the Geroge Michael way. It felt wonderful and my hair felt so much smoother. But, there were hairs in the brush that were completely filtered together, almost like felt. I did thoroughly de-tangle with my fingers and a comb before brushing. My hair is very fine and I have a lot of hairs on my head. I was very gentle and took my time with slow even strokes with the brush.

Can brushing every day with a BBB help to stretch hairwashes? If I brush every day can I stop using all those blasted hair serums? Is my own sebum enough to keep my hair moistened? I have dry hair and scalp.

I would be very grateful if some of the George Michael followers would answer my dumb questions. The book is not available here in Denmark and I can't find a salon using George Michael methods. Thank you for your patience.

Madora
August 26th, 2014, 08:27 AM
I have questions concerning brushing with a BBB. I recently purchased a Mason Pearson brush that is half nylon and half boar bristles. It's the smaller size as I couldn't afford the paddle size. Is this ok to use?

After reading the first 15 pages of this thread yesterday I tried brushing my hair the Geroge Michael way. It felt wonderful and my hair felt so much smoother. But, there were hairs in the brush that were completely filtered together, almost like felt. I did thoroughly de-tangle with my fingers and a comb before brushing. My hair is very fine and I have a lot of hairs on my head. I was very gentle and took my time with slow even strokes with the brush.

Can brushing every day with a BBB help to stretch hairwashes? If I brush every day can I stop using all those blasted hair serums? Is my own sebum enough to keep my hair moistened? I have dry hair and scalp.

I would be very grateful if some of the George Michael followers would answer my dumb questions. The book is not available here in Denmark and I can't find a salon using George Michael methods. Thank you for your patience.

Hanne Jensen, have you been brushing your hair regularly, that is, every day? The reason I ask is that you remarked that you found hairs in your brush that were completely filtered together, almost like felt. I thought perhaps you experienced this because you did not brush often. When you did brush, your brush was full of many hairs because your hair is fine and thick. The point being: if you do not brush every day, when you DO brush you find more hair in your brush than you would if you brushed daily.

Now, the brush itself: I would not use it because it is not a pure boar bristle brush. Nylon, while it feels wonderful on your scalp, is NOT friendly to your hair and can cause damage over time.

Brushing every day CAN help stretch your washes! Most definitely! It also helps if you use a CLEAN brush every day.

Brushing helps move the sebum down your strands. Unless you have a very dry scalp, I do not see why you would need any serums or masks to have shiny, healthy, beautiful hair. Naturally, you need to brush every day to achieve this. You do not have to do the 100 strokes..maybe 50..or whatever you are comfortable doing. Just remember to always detangle with your comb first and be consistent. If you do 40 strokes...do 40 every day. Also, Dr. Michael said to brush in the "upside down" position to get the most from your brushing sessions...and do it in the morning, when you get up. It has something to do with circulation being the best at that time.

And yes, your own hair sebum should be enough to keep your hair happy! Of course once you reach a certain length it is harder for the sebum to reach the ends (even with brushing) so a little help from a TINY bit of oil can help the ends stay moisturized and help minimize damage.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...unless your hair is severely damaged..you can have beautiful, healthy, shiny hair with brushing only (with a pure boar bristle brush). It all depends on HOW you brush and the kind of brush you use.

Madora
August 26th, 2014, 08:30 AM
PS Curlies..forgo the brush. Use a comb instead.

hanne jensen
August 26th, 2014, 09:32 AM
Thank you, Madora. I don't brush my hair every day. After reading this thread it is something that I would like to try. Gosh darn it, I paid almost 1,000 crowns for the Mason Pearson. Friday when I get paid I will purchase a pure BBB and it will not be a MP. I have another question-if the BBB doesn't reach the scalp, how can it stimulate the follicles and move the sebum from the scalp down the hair? Can I use the MP until Friday or should I use my horn comb until I can buy a new brush?

rowie
August 26th, 2014, 09:42 AM
I'd also like to add to Madora's response that people within the type 2 range 2a-2c (wavies) can get away with brushing. I have really coarse horse hair texture and I've successfully have incorporated daily brushing with a pure bbb. I find it does take a lot of work with patiently sectioning the hair in order to get some sebum to spread down the length and also using your palm while brushing to avoid static. The only thing is, I have to make sure I wear my hair in an updo, otherwise the hair will look a little bit poofy. Which is fine with me as in accordance to the GM routine hair should be worn up and in a braid anyways.

meteor
August 26th, 2014, 10:11 AM
Yep, I think Dr. Michael worked with straight/wavy hair when he came up with the 100 brush-strokes rule, not kinky-curly.

It also reminds me of the 19th century hair philosophy, where they used brushing as a way of "dry-cleaning" hair. They washed hair rarely but needed to remove lint, dust, etc from hair somehow, which is where brushes and fine-tooth combs came in. This old-school approach seems to have had a strong influence on Dr. Michael via his mom with floor-length hair and old hair-care traditions in the Russian Empire (he was born and raised in St. Petersburg)...

My question is: why 100 strokes? Is it just metaphorical, as if to say: take your time with it, don't rush it? Or is 100 really somehow a magical number in GM philosophy, and, say, 20 strokes simply won't do?

Madora
August 26th, 2014, 11:26 AM
Yep, I think Dr. Michael worked with straight/wavy hair when he came up with the 100 brush-strokes rule, not kinky-curly.

It also reminds me of the 19th century hair philosophy, where they used brushing as a way of "dry-cleaning" hair. They washed hair rarely but needed to remove lint, dust, etc from hair somehow, which is where brushes and fine-tooth combs came in. This old-school approach seems to have had a strong influence on Dr. Michael via his mom with floor-length hair and old hair-care traditions in the Russian Empire (he was born and raised in St. Petersburg)...

My question is: why 100 strokes? Is it just metaphorical, as if to say: take your time with it, don't rush it? Or is 100 really somehow a magical number in GM philosophy, and, say, 20 strokes simply won't do?

Meteor..in days long past, the 100 strokes a day was de rigeur. Why 100 I don't know myself. My grandmother (born 1884) swore by 100 strokes daily.

In the case of Dr. Michael, the number of strokes depends on whether you're reading an article about him..or reading his book!

In articles, 100 strokes per day is stressed.

In his book he says (pg 76) "The rule of 100 strokes isn't iron-clad, however. You should stay with whatever you feel is comfortable consistently for at least one month. For your hair 80, 75, or even 90 strokes might be best; the key issue is that you stay with the same number and never add more than 10 strokes per day. Remember, if you miss a day, decrease by 20 and then build up to your ideal count by increasing 10 strokes every day, to avoid "Charley horse" of the roots".

Charley horse of the roots is the awful pain you get when your follicles are pulled in a direction they are not accustomed to. Hurts like hell.

Dr. Michael encourages people new to brushing to start slowly..20 strokes a day. When you are comfortable with that, then increase by 10 more strokes per day, until you reach your target goal of strokes.

Also, he only counts the strokes done in the head down position (because of the advantage of stimulating the follicles in that position.)

Madora
August 26th, 2014, 11:48 AM
Thank you, Madora. I don't brush my hair every day. After reading this thread it is something that I would like to try. Gosh darn it, I paid almost 1,000 crowns for the Mason Pearson. Friday when I get paid I will purchase a pure BBB and it will not be a MP. I have another question-if the BBB doesn't reach the scalp, how can it stimulate the follicles and move the sebum from the scalp down the hair? Can I use the MP until Friday or should I use my horn comb until I can buy a new brush?

You're most welcome, hanne Jensen!

The old question of the boar bristle penetrating to the scalp depends on the brush, the thickness of your hair, and how you actually brush.

If you brush in the head down position, then you can reach your nape and under canopy hair (because you're brushing downwards). You can also reach your top canopy hair in the bent at the waist position. Here's how I do it:

1) Bend at the waist, with all your hair in front of you
2) Be sure all hair is detangled before beginning to brush
3) Take the brush and place the bristles against your forehead
4) Press the brush in to your forehead a little, then bring it up 2 inches or so, then still holding the brush in the hair, bring your arm straight out and down. These motions should be done in one fluid motion...no pausing, no jerking. It is similar to Victorian times when a gentleman took off his cap to a lady. The brush is in constant contact with the hair all through the movement.
5) Be sure to go slowly. You actually work from the front of the right ear across the front of your head to the front of the other ear.
6) If you want to be extra thorough, when you press the brush into your forehead, move it back from the front, then lift it up, out and down.

SPECIAL WARNING: When you are finished brushing all your hair in the bent at the waist position, detangle it again, then still bent at the waist, make a center part from
your nape to your forehead. Take one section of hair in your right hand, the other section in your left hand. NOW stand erect. Take the hair in the right hand and gently put it behind your shoulder. Do the same with the other side.

No tossing/flinging your hair about!! You only create more tangles if you aren't careful.

Style as desired.

I had really, really thick hair when I was younger (see pic in my album). I bought (sight unseen) a very highly praised Kent of London pure bbb...$80.00 US..and it hated my hair. It was a beautiful brush BUT the bristles were too long. It was much too stiff..and worst of all, the bristle clumps were packed too closely together.

So, if you want a brush that will navigate your hair properly, then find a brush that has at least 5 rows across, no rubber pad, is narrow rather than oval, and has bristle clumps that are not packed too closely together.

As for bristle firmness...that's a matter of personal choice. I like a bristle that is fairly stiff with a little "flexibility" to it. My brushes have never been able to really penetrate my scalp right down to the skin..but they have been fine for distributing the sebum.

The only brush I have recently encountered that reach all the way to the skin is The Madora brush, available only thru the GM Salons. They are VERY pricey ($40.00). They are also very different from what I've been using. They are very narrow (only 4 rows of bristles). The place where you place your thumb when brushing is very narrow (I'm used to a little more wiggle room). The brush had an unfortunate tendency to "turn" in my hand when I was brushing the under canopy (it was fine for the front canopy). But it felt great on my scalp..bristles very prickly and stiff.

If you feel all right using the brush you have now, then go for it. If you'd rather wait until you find another brush, fine too.

You can stimulate the follicles by gentle fingerpad massage (in the head down position). Naturally, it isn't as good as brushing, but it certainly doesn't do any harm and is beneficial.

Good luck finding another brush. If at all possible, go in person to check it out and test the stiffness (or not) of the bristles..and see how closely together they are placed (or not). The handle should feel comfortable. The brush should not be unwieldly..i.e. too large and clumsy. That's why I prefer a brush that is more narrow than one that is oval or square. Happy hunting, hanne Jensen! Let us know how it worked out for you!

Gertrude
August 26th, 2014, 12:04 PM
To Hanne,

If it helps in the London GM salon you get taught the brushing technique. And told to brush in the morning, bending sharply over and a number that works for you up to 100 times. 100 times was the magical number of the late Victorian/Edwardian age. Brush one hundred times, write this time a hundred times on the blackboard.....

The brush used in London is a top-of-the-range Kent all BBB bristle handmade wooden hairbrush. Personal possession of the stylist. The detangling comb is the Mason Pearson rake. I brought in my Mason Pearson Handy size bristle brush and was told it was no good.

The correct GM technique as taught to me is that you bend forward, start brushing at the back of your hair, as it is the strongest hair, and brush one, with brush in your dominant hand, follow with the other hand as a rake to deal with static. Not one hundred times, but to destroy the roller set curls for the trim. For home use I was told to not brush one hundred times by the GM stylist, and probably no more than about 40. GM didn't mean everyone to brush one hundred times.

I bought the Kent and don't like to think how much that cost. It is awful on my hair. That's 1. 2. The hair at my hairline all around is extremely fragile and fine. The nape is probably finest. The strongest hair is in the middle of my scalp if that makes sense. 3. I have Ehlers Danlos hypermobility and bending sharply forward makes my Blood pressure crash and heart race if I go too deep. In the morning you are most flexible so it's easy to overstretch. 4. The Mason Pearson is also very expensive, has a cult following, and does not work for everyone. But I swear by Mason's invention. Mason Pearson developed his domed cushioned hairbrush in vulcanised rubber over many years in the late Victorian era. For me, personally, I am not selling MP brushes, it does what he said it would. The cushion helps the bristles to reach the scalp effectively and the rubber stops most static electricity. Considering I was used for the Van de Graaf generator experiment for static electricity in high school as the ideal subject that's amazing. For other people bending over and brushing away no doubt feels very good.

I do brush, my own way, sectioned, don't count the strokes but it does help shine and condition. The design, with the cushion, does drive shed hair deep in it, so it becomes a felted web at the base. Just clean the brush gently. I use my fingers and a soft nail brush to clean the brush.

Mason Pearson has three bristle mixtures. All boar bristle for very fine, bristle and nylon for medium hair, all nylon for coarse hair. The nylon filaments used are very smooth and safe and the bristle/nylon model is the best seller for the last sixty years. If if feels good it should be fine. My hair is very fine and I do need all bristle. MP works for me; and my great aunt actually wrote off, in the 1980s when she was nearly ninety, to ask for a replacement rubber cushion as hers was worn out. She got a lovely letter back and a free brush as sadly the cushion couldn't be repaired. They do repair wooden handled MP brushes by replacing bristles. But I don't have shares in it, don't sell them, and they are expensive.


I do use conditioner, and leave in conditioner, but no serum with silicones. I also use a mask every few weeks. I have fine hair and sensitive skin and not enough sebum to reach the very ends, and also the sustained brushing I would need to move what sebum I had to the ends would weather my hair. As in wear it out. And irritate my scalp a lot. My great aunt incidentally did oil her hair in the sense that she would rub the bit of oil between her hands and through her hair from about shoulder level and then brush. She had similar hair and hypermobility.

I inherited the free brush and it's an extra large sensitive all bristle. It's too big for my wrists to deal with comfortably. I need the smallest brush for least impact. But it's beautiful. MP recommends the longer the hair, the bigger the brush but I have found it matters most what feels comfortable in your hands, which do the brushing.

So I am a genetically bendy person with funny fine hair and a dry-ish scalp. Not every woman.

chen bao jun
August 26th, 2014, 06:03 PM
Madora, you are so sweet!
Dr. George Michael may have been right that the majority of time hypercurly African hairtypes do not grow to knee length. I myself have only ever heard of one young girl with 4a hair who was knee length. I've never seen the youtube videos her mother made of her, though--sadly, due to hateful comments left on the site, the family took the videos down. There is a lady of African descent, however, Celina Starr, who is a member of our forum who has thigh length hair and is still growing. She may well make knee. If I remember correctly, though, she is a 3b, 3c, which is extremely curly but not really afro-curly. She co washes daily and otherwise uses benign neglect (always a good idea).
Even if she makes it, however, I would still think that knee length hyper curly hair (especially that is not in dreadlocks) would be extremely, extremely rare and probably (going out on a limb here) not possible for most of us. and even if it was knee length, to be honest, my hair would not appear to be knee length AT ALL. It might appear to be classic.
This is a touchy subject because nowadays everyone thinks that being equal means being exactly the same, which is of course not true and people tend to get offended if you point out that we are not all exactly the same. To me, Dr. George Michael's observation would be just that--an observation that hypercurly hair has different qualities than other hair types (even though he got the qualities wrong. My hair is not porous. Quite the opposite, it is so low porosity that it is hard to moisturize. But I don't know if this is the exception or the rule). Even if hypercurly hair will not usually grow to knee length, however, it will certainly grow to waist, to hip and beyond in many cases with the proper care. I personally think it has it own unique qualities which make it beautiful and that length is not the only criteria for lovely hair. But everyone has their own tastes and at this time in my life, my taste is for long: I would like to see how long I can get, even if it is never 'George Michael' or 'LHC' long. I am already pleased with what LHC information has done for me and even more pleased with the interesting variety of people and different methods I see and read about on here. And Madora, I do love the look of your gorgeous knee-length hair! I know that knee is not easy for anybody and was so pleased to see you meet this personal goal recently, especially as a lady in my age group--I found that encouraging indeed.

On another note, I did have a grandmother who brushed 100 times every night and I do think it was standard Victorian advice for everyone. She used an MP.

Chen bao jun, I doubt you could offend anyone! :)

Just for clarification, here's what Dr. Michael (who was not into plastic surgery as far as I know!) said in his book:

"For example, you never see Negroid hair down to the knees because by its very structure, the hair is too kinky, too porous."

I'm glad you found a method of caring for your hair that you find practical. That's really what it's all about...finding what works for you.

Madora
August 26th, 2014, 06:12 PM
That poor lady on You Tube! God, I hate it when others are so downright rude, condescending, or just plain hateful. They only show how ignorant they are!

Chen bao jun, as long as you're happy with your hair, that's all that matters! I don't doubt for a moment that the ladies who flocked to Dr. Michael's salons listened attentively to his instructions...and then home and continued with their usual routine...or adapted some of his theory. The only thing that's important is to enjoy your hair and tend to it lovingly, which I'm sure you are doing!

meteor
August 26th, 2014, 06:36 PM
Chen, now I'm really curious about the video you mentioned. I have to say, I've very rarely seen extremely long kinky-curly hair and I absolutely adore that look. :)

Of course, curly/kinky hair does grow long... it just takes a lot longer to show off the length (unstretched), and it's probably higher maintenance due to higher instances of tangling (due to texture) and dryness (due to sebum not travelling down the curly/kinky hair shaft as fast).
I have a curly friend who started growing out hair at the same time as me and I'm gaining 4 times as much in visible length just because I experience no shrinkage. But her curly long hair is amazingly impressive and also somewhat rare! It's like it's growing both down and outward - a gorgeous mass of curls! :)

Dr. Michael said that hair in some parts of the world grows at the rate of 6 inches per month (http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/archive/index.php/t-24977.html), so I think it's pretty safe to say that he wasn't 100% right about everything. Still, kudos for his amazing dedication to long hair and creating great salons where at least they know how to brush, cut and roller-set long hair properly! :D

Caldonia Sun
August 26th, 2014, 06:44 PM
Great info. This makes me want to grow out my bangs, but it's such a messy process with my straight hair.

cocolover
August 26th, 2014, 09:21 PM
PS Curlies..forgo the brush. Use a comb instead.
Would you use the exact same technique, just substituting a comb? I'm very interested in this, but this would be a big change for me, as I don't brush or comb currently at all!

chen bao jun
August 27th, 2014, 06:08 PM
meteor, i will look for a link about people talking about it. I also would have loved to have seen it and am sorry that hate made the mother take the video down.
Oh, yes, kinky curly hair grows long (as I know from my grandmother and aunts). I just don't know if it commonly can grow as long as knee, even when stretched. I would be glad to see evidence that it could. (One person would not be evidence). I personally do not think that all races have potential to get the same lengths. I have yet to see a Caucasian person whose hair is as long as some of the Chinese women one sees online, such as the world record holder with the 18 foot long hair. However, tailbone (which my grandmother had) is impressively long, in my opinion, especially if it is unstretched dense curls, and yes, that does look spectacular. When I first came on this forum, I was highly, highly annoyed that my length did not show the way it would if I have less curly hair. However, when I began to ask myself if I wanted to give up the special qualities of curly hair in order to show length faster, I really don't. I love pulling on a curl and seeing it sproing back up. I have started to love the natural height I have without ever needing bumpits or things of that sort. I love how my hair goes outward and looks full and now that it is longer, I am enjoying the fact that it can look short in spite of the length. Last week I went back and forth between bangs and no bangs and it was very easy--wet my hair and I have instant bangs (cute little curly bangs, too), braid it overnight and the next day and its way past my chin and can easily be pulled up in a bun without needing bobby pins or anything. I enjoy being able to easily secure my hair upwards without the need of pins of sticks when I do certain hairstyles--there's lots of things that are so much fun. But I love straight and silky hair on other people, and also lovely wavy hair--I have just never liked either of those hair types on ME. And I know I wouldn't like a different hairtype just for the one quality of visible length, I'd be giving up too much.
But on the other hand, I don't require any one else to love my hairtype, or even to be very interested in it. As I said before, if Dr. George Michael was not, that's fine with me. As Madora said so eloquently, the important thing to do is love your own hair and tend to it carefully. Which LHC really helps me to do.
I have a feeling I'm thread-jacking--when I find the information about the girl who had the knee length type 4 hair, I will probably send it to you by PM. I would make a thread, but its pointless with there being no actual video to see.


Chen, now I'm really curious about the video you mentioned. I have to say, I've very rarely seen extremely long kinky-curly hair and I absolutely adore that look. :)

Of course, curly/kinky hair does grow long... it just takes a lot longer to show off the length (unstretched), and it's probably higher maintenance due to higher instances of tangling (due to texture) and dryness (due to sebum not travelling down the curly/kinky hair shaft as fast).
I have a curly friend who started growing out hair at the same time as me and I'm gaining 4 times as much in visible length just because I experience no shrinkage. But her curly long hair is amazingly impressive and also somewhat rare! It's like it's growing both down and outward - a gorgeous mass of curls! :)

Dr. Michael said that hair in some parts of the world grows at the rate of 6 inches per month (http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/archive/index.php/t-24977.html), so I think it's pretty safe to say that he wasn't 100% right about everything. Still, kudos for his amazing dedication to long hair and creating great salons where at least they know how to brush, cut and roller-set long hair properly! :D

Madora
August 27th, 2014, 08:08 PM
Would you use the exact same technique, just substituting a comb? I'm very interested in this, but this would be a big change for me, as I don't brush or comb currently at all!

Cocolover, using a comb is just fine, as long as it is a wide tooth comb. As I stated before, always be sure to detangle thoroughly, and hold the comb lightly and gently. Move it down the ends from nape and thru the ends. Work in small sections...not trying to get thru the mass all at once. To avoid tangles when using the bent at the waist position, while you are still bent, center part your hair from nape to forehead. Put the right hair in the right hand/the left hair in the left hand. Now stand erect. Gently place the right hair over the right shoulder and let it drop. Ditto for the other side. Check for tangles. Style as desired. You will find that parting and "holding" the hair, instead of flinging/tossing it about when you are finished, lessens the possibility for tangles.

The hair should be either combed or brushed every day because fallen hair should be removed so it does not get tangled in with the still growing hair, creating tangle miseries. It is also good for the scalp (but not as good as daily brushing, in my humble opinion. Curlies don't brush, usually).