Fine hair, tangles. Would layers help? (old thread)

[longforhim]

For those of you with fine hair do you find that your hair tangles more when your hair is all one length or when you have layers?
I'm having bad tangle problems again and I find that the only solution is to cut my hair like I have in the past. However, I don't want short hair like I did back then. I was wondering if cutting in layers would help decrease my tangles or make it worse.
I'm pretty sure that the cause of my tanglesis because my hair is so fine and the individual hairs wrap around each other more easily. It's not from damage of protein overload or anything.
I'm just looking for a solution to this problem I guess, because I feel like I will damage my hair just trying to get huge tangles out constantly. I wear my hair up a lot because there are days where I can't get the tangles out without breaking the hairs so I just put it up and wait until the next wash so the conditioner can help detangle. Any suggestions or thoughts on the layers?

[monsterna]

How often do you condition or otherwise moisturize?

[nytquill]

I'm not an expert, and I haven't had layers or anything in a long while. But my hair is pretty fine too and what keeps it from tangling the most are: adequate moisture and always putting it up when I go out in the weather or do anything active where my hair is moving around a lot. I don't think a different haircut would help too much but that's just my opinion, not something I've researched or anything.

For years I never put my hair up, never wanted to, didn't like the way it looked...but then I started to have to for work, and gradually I came around. And now I realize that if I braid my hair at the start of the day, when I get home in the evenings and take it down, it's just as tangle-free as it was when I first put it up.

I also find that my hair needs a lot of moisture (even though they say "fine hair needs more protein" I find that moisture helps more and my hair practically can't get enough of it!) Not to mention, you may be one of those who really needs cones to grow well and not get a lot of breakage.

[longforhim]

I wash and condition about 2 times a week. I do use cone laden conditioners as I find my hair almost impossible to detangle without them. I'm sure to clarify when I need to tho. My hair loves moisture to Nytquill. I find that when I put condition on my hair before it's wet right before I wash and condition in the shower that it helps some as well.

[feb26]

I had v long waist-length hair when I was a child, it tangled like crazy & was all one length. I keep my hair in layers now that I'm older and while it still tangles, the knots aren't as bad..they're much smaller. So yes, I do think layers help. I'd ask your stylist for advice, too before cutting. I find fine hair tangles in even the slightest breeze so keep an eye on yr weather & keep it up on windy days!

[monsterna]

I wash and condition about 2 times a week. I do use cone laden conditioners as I find my hair almost impossible to detangle without them. I'm sure to clarify when I need to tho. My hair loves moisture to Nytquill. I find that when I put condition on my hair before it's wet right before I wash and condition in the shower that it helps some as well.

Would you be against going CO every day or every other day at least? Conditioner is a life saver for tangles.

[share801]

In my case, I don't think layers help. But YMMV cause I am a wavy and it seems the individual strands can tangle on themselves without my help.

[lapushka]

For those of you with fine hair do you find that your hair tangles more when your hair is all one length or when you have layers?

When it's all one length, blunt-cut. (Technically it's not all one length.)

When it's WL, for instance, and it has a blunt cut, the upper parts of the hair are the absolute longest and they are the most prone to tangles - just because they are longer than the rest. I'm talking about that part of the hair that you use to do a half-up with. If that's all layered, and usually that's where the most layering takes place, then you still have WL hair, but you have lots of areas where the hair is somewhat shorter. The upper part is shorter than the rest (not technically), and therefore: less tangles and easier to brush out. I've always found layers easier in that respect. I've always liked the kind of layering that really attempts to even out all the hair on your head so the hair is technically close to being one length.

[feb26]

exactly and well-said. I have light FF layers but they're blended so I can still do braids, just mucho pinning involved...or else v messy. the back is an inverted horseshoe-shape

[RachelRain]

doesn't matter for me. I used to have a v cut in high school because I didn't want to cut it after a horrific attempt by my aunt, and I remember spending half an hour trying to work out individual snarls even then. I can brush my hair more often now, even if it's only really quick to make sure the ends aren't snarling up from rubbing on stuff or whatever, so I'm assuming that's helpful.

but, I can turn my head after brushing my hair out completely, and have it snarl as though I hadn't touched it in days. I'm assuming it's because my hair is wavy...

[Vorvolaka]

It makes no difference, my hair tangles anyway. Worst culprits are bad ends and certain fabrics. For example, I can't wear my hair down with my lovely warm coat. It's a wool mix and causes havoc with my hair. Tangles are reduced when I wear my leather jacket.

Also, I really couldn't do without cones. I'm going to start the MS routine soon, to see if that helps, but at the moment it's cones keeping it in good condition.

[torrilin]

but, I can turn my head after brushing my hair out completely, and have it snarl as though I hadn't touched it in days. I'm assuming it's because my hair is wavy...

No, it's because you have hair. Hair tangles.

Anyway, for me layers are evil. I have very thin hair strands, and they're floaty and silky and slippery and static prone. So trying to put in layers means my hair ends up acting like short hair and getting in my face all the time... which is exactly why I want long hair.

My hair tangles a lot more if I leave it down or the ends are split. With how fine the strands are, it's hard to see splits. I've learned to feel them instead, since my fingers are more sensitive than my eyes. And I've learned to prevent splits as much as possible, by braiding my hair or wearing it up... which also keeps tangles to a minimum.

[pinchbeck]

I think it depends on what type of layers are cut into your hair. Six months ago I decided to layer my hair to help with manageabilty and the outcome was tangly hair. Then I had another stylist re-layer my hair because I didn't like how my layers were cut into my hair. His technique was horrible. I waited a couple of months and had my hair layered a third time. The third stylist did an excellent job and now my hair is easier to manage. Of course, a lot of length (4" - 5") was taken off against my wishes with the second hairdresser's layering technique, so this could be the reason.

When my hair grows back to where it was originally (MBL) I will have a clearer picture.

[RachelRain]

No, it's because you have hair. Hair tangles.

Anyway, for me layers are evil. I have very thin hair strands, and they're floaty and silky and slippery and static prone. So trying to put in layers means my hair ends up acting like short hair and getting in my face all the time... which is exactly why I want long hair.

My hair tangles a lot more if I leave it down or the ends are split. With how fine the strands are, it's hard to see splits. I've learned to feel them instead, since my fingers are more sensitive than my eyes. And I've learned to prevent splits as much as possible, by braiding my hair or wearing it up... which also keeps tangles to a minimum.

I don't know anyone else (personally, anyways, but I'm sure it's not uncommon) who's hair can do quite what mine does, hence the assuming it's because of the waves. I have an ex who literally can not brush his hair for days and you'd never know. I dislike him intensely for it when I'm fighting with mine.

[spidermom]

I gave this a lot of thought and concluded - no, layers don't help. Layering just creates more ends that can tangle up.

[Annalouise]

My hair tangles from contact with my back. Unless I was wearing silk my hair just tangles all day long. It didn't used to be as bad when I used neutrogena tripple moisture shampoo and conditioner. Also, if I CO my hair daily that helps also as well as using a deep conditioner on the length almost daily.:) (I'm using herbs right now and its really exacerbating tangles).:(

But even the wispie hairs on my head tangle if I go outside in the wind. If I try and run my fingers through my scalp there are tangles there too.

I guess the best thing to do is moisturize the heck out of it and try not go go outside in the wind or wear hair down very much.:) Or buy silk shirts.:D

[heidi w.]

To be honest, I am super fine, stick straight and tangle a LOT if hair is worn down.

Sooooo, I use a heavy conditioner on the length only (lighter one for scalp health that you can't get in the US since I have seborrheic dermatitus)....Biolage Conditioning Balm. I've been using it for years.

I have a particular way that I condition.
A. I use very warm somewhat hot water. At the end of hair washing, I will increase the heat a bit for this part of my hair wash.
B. I fan my hair out, gently, to "flatten". Hair when wet tends to become ropey and applying conditioner means it may ONLY get to the outer layer, and not inside the clump of hair.
NOTE: Conditioner works through a bonding with the cortex, so getting some on all hair strands is important.
C. I will sometimes "warm" the conditioner a bit to prevent it from just laying on top of the hair and not going IN to the hair length. This is particularly important, I've noted, in areas where it snows. That conditioner gets really cold and viscous and doesn't smear or spread well.

D. In fact, I will also re-wet the hair a few times when the conditioner is on the hair length to get it to be really smeary and slippery and to ensure the cuticle is "open" (from the hot water) and the conditioner can therefore penetrate to the cortex.

E. I leave conditioner on for around 5 minutes before entirely rinsing out.

That's the first thing, to apply the conditioner in a way that it can actually condition.

Another point: I find that conditioner tends to break down over time. I find my hair behaves 'best' when I condition for sure, once per week. Certainly there's been times I get to 2 weeks, and definitely the conditioner seems to break down, somehow.

At night, find a smooth surface, slippery pillowcase. No flannel, even a cotton can be too rough for finer hair types. You might consider braiding loosely at night to help contain hair. When it gets longer, it'll be heavier and will then tend to lay relatively unmoved during the night over the bed's edge and won't tangle quite like it does at shorter lengths. Except the back of the head.

I strongly advocate that you detangle fully at least once per day. Put hair up then. Allowing any tangling to persist can be worse.

I have a problem at this length with tangles conspiring just because of that untwirling of twisted hair strands, crisscrossing over and around. I get these pin knots that sometimes has no solution but to tear, which is terrible.

I definitely never, ever use a brush to detangle anymore. I have a GM Madora extra-wide tooth comb. It took me a while to make the transition, but it's been worth it. I only ever use a boar bristle brush anymore--which is only for polishing the hair. IF you don't yet know how to use this, write in asking for instruction.

I do sometimes have to put my hair up with tangles. For example, this morning I got a call a meeting was going on here in town today and I literally had to run. So you gotta do what you gotta do.

I don't know if a humidifier (or vaporizor) would help in any way. I know static can create more tangles for us fine hair types. Static is an issue for many in the winter, especially in snowy geographies, but even in say, rainy South Bay California....

Finally, don't be shy about finding a leave-in conditioner or finding a detangling product such as is used for kids. IF it works for you, it works for you.

It's winter so no long hair on sweater tops, coat jackets.....Winter definitely means tresses up. I have brought hair round to the front, though, dividing in half in the back, and putting a coat on over the hair as it rests in the front. It still will tangle a bit, but the back it tangles worse.

I don't have any guaranteed solutions for you. Some have a hair type, and I've met them, that they don't have many hair tangles, but us fine hair types definitely have them. And it's just part of having long hair when a fine hair type. No excellent solutions to offer based on my experience, anyway.

More oiling doesn't work. I find that keeping the tangling managed, as in full detangling once a day makes a difference.

heidi w.

[heidi w.]

I gave this a lot of thought and concluded - no, layers don't help. Layering just creates more ends that can tangle up.

I have never had layers when having long hair. So I can't say about layering, but length is length and if you're a fine hair type, it's just part of the deal.

So I agree with Spidermom.

The point of layering is to create a sense of volume. No relationship to tangles if you ask me.

By the way, if you want long hair, layers tend to always be present in some aspect when you layer. It shows in my hair, even over 16 years since I've had short hair with lots of layers (it was a great look, but well.....it still shows that I had layers).

heidi w.

[julliams]

My 12 year old has hair that tangles so badly she has wads of knots for me to deal with every morning. We have taken to braiding it at night and this seems to help.

The other day she went swimming and I can only describe the CLUMP that came out to be like those 80's style country blinds - you know the ones that have a scalloped bottom and draw up in the same way? Her hair was this intricate clump of scalloped tangles that took around 45 minutes to comb out with two of us doing the job. It was crazy! I have never seen anything like it before.

Me, I can go days without brushing and then have only a few here and there. My hair is just a long as my daughters so it must have something to do with texture and perhaps amount of hair???

When Elly was little, if I cut it into a bob at her shoulders, it would sit perfectly and relatively no brushing was required. At almost waist length it is bordering a nightmare to deal with. But it's so pretty and she loves it so, we do!

[Chestershire]

I think my hair's kinda the same as yours, and I really regret my layers. It's a pain to grown them out. You cannot make nice buns or a braid without hundreds of hairs sticking out. Plus your hemlime looks thinner. That's not really an answer to your question, but I'm just warning you :'3

[heidi w.]

My 12 year old has hair that tangles so badly she has wads of knots for me to deal with every morning. We have taken to braiding it at night and this seems to help.

The other day she went swimming and I can only describe the CLUMP that came out to be like those 80's style country blinds - you know the ones that have a scalloped bottom and draw up in the same way? Her hair was this intricate clump of scalloped tangles that took around 45 minutes to comb out with two of us doing the job. It was crazy! I have never seen anything like it before.

Me, I can go days without brushing and then have only a few here and there. My hair is just a long as my daughters so it must have something to do with texture and perhaps amount of hair???

When Elly was little, if I cut it into a bob at her shoulders, it would sit perfectly and relatively no brushing was required. At almost waist length it is bordering a nightmare to deal with. But it's so pretty and she loves it so, we do!

Julliums, I suggest you both might like a satin, sateen, parachute-like fabric (very slippery, cotton surprisingly still causes tangles and doesn't allow for maximum slip) for a pillowcase too. Helps the hair slide during the night. Might also consider, for longer tresses, if hair is long enough and hanging over the bed edge, to hang a piece of slippery fabric down the bed (can tuck in under pillow, or make an extra long pillowcase with fabric hanging over the edge....) Even with braids, there can be that bundle of tangles at the nape of the neck, just below the head to unravel. Also, for your daughter, a detangling spray may be in order. I think it's a valid idea also for Adults with tangle problems.

This is a great personal story relaying how even within a family, and hair being genetic, that things can be very, very different even with relatives and hair type.

Remember, though, that kid's hair tends to be extremely fine until about age 10 or so when it begins to change to "adult" hair. When this phase occurs -- over time (from a year or more, as in several years), the hair's texture can change (including say, curly to straight or straight to curls....), color. It can take a few years for this undertaking. Also, around age 20s or so, this phase represents the time in your life when you will have the most volume, from say 15-20s somewhere. When we hit 30, it begins to change again, at least in terms of volume. Note that I said begins. It can take quite a few years for this process. Some it delays til 40s.....but by 50 most are going to notice a difference in hair's volume, compared to 20s.

I have met others with rather straight hair and they indeed have no tangles. My friend Leona comes to mind. Her hair is like mine in that it is straight, BUT her hair is really heavy and she has the kind of hair that you can put it through a lot (blow it around, flip and whatnot)....and her hair always goes back to straight down and untangled. It's kind of interesting. I have met still others who have fine hair almost like mine, and while they have tangles, they don't have it quite as much as I do because my hair is really, really fine -- as in a single strand in daylight is nearly invisible.

Everyone's hair IS different. PLUS those growing long, particularly for the first time in their life, are typically surprised at the experience of tangles. There's this perception out there that those of us with long hair must never have these problems. Not so. We just have learned that really, really long hair, with mere head movement (not counting wind, clothing, etc.), there's a kind of 'S' swish when the head moves from side-to-side.

heidi w.

[Fadedbluedreams]

I think fine hair tangles a lot more than other types. I have it and seriously, we're talking five minutes with it down and it's gotta be combed. I envy people whose hair is naturally obedient and often it seems it's thicker hair.

[madeline_]

I have the same problem, when I wear my hair down and even when I don't. My hair always looks so incredibly messy, almost right after having declared it "almost passable" in the bathroom. :confused: I hoped henna would make it more easy to manage, but after one application with half cassia half henna and two glosses, it's still just as tangly as it was before. I keep a tiny mister bottle and a wide-toothed comb in my purse, since I like wearing my hair down. To compensate I wear it up whenever I can and for sleeping. I don't know what to do about, usually it ends in my putting in waaay too much product and it looking greasy.

[jojo]

I am not a lover of layers to be honest, i remember reading something that it breaks shine in hair, like a shattered mirror. I cannot see how layers would help with tangles, i would think it would cause more tangles if anything as you would have more different length hairs, some hair is prone to tangles mine is. Wearing it up and a little oil or conditioner in the ends helps.

[ddiana1979]

I have similar hair to you. Do you gently detangle with your fingers or a wide toothed comb before you get in the shower to wash your hair? Do you braid or otherwise keep it up at night?

For me, layers vs. blunt made no difference, but the two above things did. Also, I found that if you have a little snarl, you can put a drop or spray a bit of silicone on it, and gently detangle it with your fingers. It makes the strands very slippery, and much less likely to break this way. (Found this out on my Arabian horses, but it works great for humans too.)

[jhator]

I would've said they make no difference to how tangled your hair gets, but I've been growing mine out and now that my shortest ones have reached shoulder length I always wake up with a huge matted mess at the back of my head. I've had to take to tying my hair up to sleep.

[mellie89]

In my experience, long layers don't cause my hair to tangle any more than it would in a blunt cut. But I don't think they help, necessarily. Choppy layers that aren't blended well definitely make my hair tangle MORE.

Honestly, layers are a giant pain in the butt, even when they are done right and look nice. Think hard before cutting any in. :o

[RachelRose]

I think layers contribute to more tangles . I know all our hair isn't perfectly one length anyway but something about chunks of hair missing and leaving the liger layers thinner and with fine hairs just is asking for tangles . In my hair I notice a major increase in fragility and tangles when it's slayered I mean layered ;)