Holy split ends!

[MAO]

My DD's hair is driving me :justy: She has waist length, fine, 1b hair. She has split ends ALL OVER the length of her hair(really!!!). Everytime her hair gets brushed there is a bunch of broken hairs littering the bathroom floor. I don't get it! I don't buy SLS anymore, no cones, I oil her hair when I can remember to, I detangle it with the utmost care, and I braid it for her before bedtime.

She is 10 and old enough to comb her own hair, yet she seems to be incapable of getting the underside of her hair knot free. Plus, she rips the brush through her hair. I usually make sure I am the one who washes her hair and I try to be the one who detangles it. When I detangle it I always, ALWAYS find huge knots in the underside of her hair.

Unfortunately, I'm not at home in the morning when she leaves for school, otherwise I would try to keep it in some sort of updo. She loves wearing her hair down and has zero regard for what happens to it during the day. I was shocked when I braided her hair for bed last night and saw a good sized section of broken hair poking out of of her braid. She must have just done it when she combed her hair after her shower. I am sure it wasn't like that the last time I braided it!

I realllllllyyyyyy don't want to have to chop her hair off. It really IS pretty and shiny, but it is starting to look bad. I don't know what else to do!

[luxepiggy]

Have you considered that maybe her hair might do better with cones? Normally my 1a hair is SUPER slippery and never tangles . . . I don't even own a brush or comb, because fingercombing in the shower is all I need. When I tried going cone free I could NOT detangle it for the life of me . . . and I've had 20+ years of practice! (^(oo)^)v

Worth at least buying some Pantene and seeing if that helps, before resorting to cutting her hair, KWIM?

[Mirsha]

I used to get huge tangles on the underside of my hair when I started brushing it on my own. I wore it down a lot, and simply brushed over it. That combined with any hoods was a disaster area.

Ask her if she wants long hair, or if she wants it at a more maintainable length, because if she's anything like me she'll get up 5 minutes before she has to go and rip the brush through as fast as possible.

And if she really wants long hair, consider cones? They're great at hiding damage.

[aenflex]

If it were me I would do her hair at night and braid it up before she gets in bed.

[pepperminttea]

I had the same problem as a child - my underlayer was always knotted to the point of near-dreaded. I find fingercombing before brushing/combing helps a lot - the tines of combs and brushes just aren't long enough, and sensitive fingers can stop at a knot to untangle it, rather than just pulling through. It does take patience, which for a ten year old is going to be quite a challenge, but it's a lot less painful, and less damaging to the hair.

I'd also give 'cones another chance - they don't work for everyone as they're advertised as doing, but they do work for a lot of people, especially with giving slip to help with those tangles.

If worst comes to worst, ask if she'd like to trim back to MBL or BSL? It'd still be long, and easily braid-able, but might be a bit more manageable. If she hates it, it's not too much to grow it back out to waist again.

[ktani]

LOL. She is 10 years old!

If she is enjoying her hair long, it can take a while to get her to understand proper hair care, like no ripping through it. Cones sound like a great idea. Her hair may need clarifying every so often now, and in the future.

After rereading the oil research pdf for the umpteenth time, I just realized that no oil penetrates hair when it is damp or dry, so cones will not harm it and oils can build-up too, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=1359681&postcount=594.

Her hair sounds lovely.

[littlestarface]

LOL. She is 10 years old!

If she is enjoying her hair long, it can take a while to get her to understand proper hair care, like no ripping through it. Cones sound like a great idea. Her hair may need clarifying every so often now, and in the future.

After rereading the oil research pdf for the umpteenth time, I just realized that no oil penetrates hair when it is damp or dry, so cones will not harm it and oils can build-up too, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=1359681&postcount=594.

Her hair sounds lovely.
Wow ktani thanks for that info I did not know that. I will be sure to oil my hair right after my hair wash.

[ktani]

Wow ktani thanks for that info I did not know that. I will be sure to oil my hair right after my hair wash.

You are most welcome but that will not do it either. That only happens during shampooing. Please read the link. I was shocked too, especially since it was not the first time I read the pdf, although I confess to skimming through it at times. It is more complicated than just that.

[chopandchange]

Have you considered that maybe her hair might do better with cones? .... When I tried going cone free I could NOT detangle it for the life of me . . . and I've had 20+ years of practice!

I agree.

It definitely sounds like she has hair that needs cones.

Why did you stop using the cones? Was it because you read on here that they're "bad?"

[SpinDance]

Like Mirsha, I had big knots at the nape of my neck when I was about your daughters age. We had hair brushes, which worked fine for the rest of my family. Their hair was fine and straight. Mine is medium and thicker with some random wave. A brush does not penetrate my hair at all well, so does not de-tangle or smooth all of it. Only a very wide toothed comb or my fingers will do that trick. It wasn't until I discovered (by accident) that there was this stuff called conditioner was I able to successfully untangle the mess and keep the knots at bay.

Perhaps a talk about the challenges with keeping longer hair might help, or setting ground rules for keeping it good condition that you both agree to.

[little_cherry]

Another thing I've noticed
"she rips the brush through her hair."

Have you showed her how to brush/comb hair yet with your own hair? You could maybe say that the rough brushing causes damage, so slow brushing is the best. I agree with the night time combing and braiding. Cones for now may be a good idea. When she is older, she can make the informed decision on whether she wants cones or not.

Does your daughter keep her hair down a lot? Does she do deep moisturising treatments like SMT?

Ktani...wow! Oiling while shampooing? That's just...amazing! I'm guessing shampooing does lift the cuticles slightly, so the oils are able to penetrate the hair shaft? I'm going to try (o.k, experiment the heck out of) this with my shikakai and amla tea (it couldn't hurt to experiment, right?

Ktani, you're wonderful! :flower:

[ktani]

Another thing I've noticed
"she rips the brush through her hair."

Have you showed her how to brush/comb hair yet with your own hair? You could maybe say that the rough brushing causes damage, so slow brushing is the best. I agree with the night time combing and braiding. Cones for now may be a good idea. When she is older, she can make the informed decision on whether she wants cones or not.

Does your daughter keep her hair down a lot? Does she do deep moisturising treatments like SMT?

Ktani...wow! Oiling while shampooing? That's just...amazing! I'm guessing shampooing does lift the cuticles slightly, so the oils are able to penetrate the hair shaft? I'm going to try (o.k, experiment the heck out of) this with my shikakai and amla tea (it couldn't hurt to experiment, right?

Ktani, you're wonderful! :flower:

Thank you!

It is the water that is swelling the hair. I do not want to hijack this thread further. Please read my blog.

[bumblebums]

I braided my own hair when I was 10. Can you show her how to do it, starting with a side braid? It's really not that hard.

[MAO]

I DO braid her hair at night. I HAVE told her to be gentle with the brush. I have suggested many times that she separate her hair in sections while detangling so she can get it all. I have tried to teach her how to braid, but her little fingers aren't quite nimble enough yet it seems. She gets confused.

I stopped using cones and SLS for myself. My skin is sensitive, and so it DH. I'm not gonna buy 2 separate of everything. Seems wasteful. Oh yeah, her hair is almost exactly the same texture as mine, but without the curls. And my hair seems pretty happy with the switch. So I guess I've been waiting to see a positive effect for hers. It's been almost 2 years since I quit buying the conventional products and using naturals........

[Gabriel]

Is a brush best for her hair type? Maybe a wide tooth comb would be better? Also, what about a spray bottle with some water and conditioner to make a detangling spray for her?

You said her hair type is just like your's without the curls but what if she has some curl/curling tendencies that you haven't noticed yet? Or maybe they are just more delicate? Have you tried leaving some conditioner in her hair after you wash it to help add some slip?

Can you teach her to "Caterpillar" her hair for school so it doesn't tangle since she can't braid yet?

[bytheocean]

My dd is 10 also and her hair is a mess. She doesn't want my help and yet she takes horrible care of it. I try to help without appearing to help if that makes sense. My dd has 3b/c, very fine hip length hair with the most stunning fairy tale ends. She has no to little splits but her hair knots up into dreadlocks within hours. I finally had to reintroduce cones (my hair likes them too so it wasn't too hard) and buy her a pick. To be honest, I worry about her hair and she could care less except when I suggest cutting it, then it becomes a big deal. Most of the time she has it pulled back in a ponytail. So I think a lot of it is the age, hair care wise. Anyway, I'm not sure I helped you at all, but just wanted you to know I'm going through something similar.

[luxepiggy]

I DO braid her hair at night. I HAVE told her to be gentle with the brush. I have suggested many times that she separate her hair in sections while detangling so she can get it all. I have tried to teach her how to braid, but her little fingers aren't quite nimble enough yet it seems. She gets confused.

I stopped using cones and SLS for myself. My skin is sensitive, and so it DH. I'm not gonna buy 2 separate of everything. Seems wasteful. Oh yeah, her hair is almost exactly the same texture as mine, but without the curls. And my hair seems pretty happy with the switch. So I guess I've been waiting to see a positive effect for hers. It's been almost 2 years since I quit buying the conventional products and using naturals........

Sorry if I'm being a little slow . . . how exactly is it wasteful to buy 2 sets of everything if it's all going to get used up eventually? Either way the aggregate volume and rate of use should be the same . . . am I missing something really obvious here? http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff33/shoppingpiglet/smilies/mx37.gif

ETA: Also, if her hair is 1b, her hair is not going to be the same texture as yours - the shape of the hair shaft is what causes the curl pattern, so if you're a 2b/2c and she's a 1b, her hair is not the same shape as yours (hers should be rounder and yours more oval, IIRC). If it's been 2 years without a positive effect, why not try getting her back on cones? Did she have these issues before you made the switch?

ETA2: My hair has been past waist since I was 5, and I definitely didn't know anything about protective styling or anything like that. I really think the right haircare products will make a huge difference in her ability to manage her own hair.

[torrilin]

*shrug*

My partner and I have completely separate hair care stuff. The skin care stuff has some overlap, but not tons. He's got psoriasis; I have normal skin. His hair is curly (a definite 3) and mine is slightly wavy. Even if we do total splurges, it's not a huge share of our budget. I'd have to really work to turn it into more than $50 every 6 months.

I'd start by picking up a detangling spray for your little girl. Most of them are pretty coney, and that sounds like it's just what she needs right now. If she uses it up quickly, it's not a big deal if she's more comfortable. And that lets you know to try a coney conditioner on her. Again, not a huge expense. As a little girl, I'd go through about 1 bottle of detangler every 3 months.

She needs something she can live with! She's old enough to be in charge of her own hair, and part of that is making her own decisions. Talk with her and ask her what she wants. If she'd be happier with short hair, let her chop.

[nytquill]

Every kid is different as to how developped and mature they are by what age, so I'm not the one to say what your daughter should or shouldn't be able to do or understand at this point. But it does seem like she's at a good age to either take more responsibility for her haircare or to understand what happens when you don't take good care of your hair.

I know for myself I wasn't very careful with my hair either - really up until last year (and I'm 25!), and my mom wasn't really helping me with my hair anymore by the time I was 10. In part I think because she wasn't any more experienced in braiding hair than I was.

I think that trying to make her care about her hair is just going to be endless frustration for all involved. That kind of interest and motivation has to come from her. As long as she's simply not interested, she's probably going to continue damaging her hair through neglect. And I have to wonder, is that such a bad thing? I mean yes damaged hair is bad, but she's young, and it'll grow out, and it doesn't seem like she'll be terribly upset by it in the meantime. I think that's the key, if she's not bothered by it enough to want to learn, then it doesn't really matter. If she is bothered by the damage then maybe that will be what it takes for her to understand WHY she needs to be more careful. Because right now it sounds like to her it's more "ugh, mom is always after me about my hair!" than anything she personally cares about.

Ground rules could be a great idea! If she wants her hair long, and she needs your help to do that (which is fine if she does), that means her hair is a two-person project and so you both have to agree on how it will be done. She might not want to take care of her hair for the sake of having beautiful undamaged hair, but if what she really cares about is the length, and you make the length contingent on certain hair care guidelines, then that might give her a real and personal motivation to care for her hair, rather than just someone telling her she should. She might not care about hair care for its own sake but she may at least find the motivation to want to do it for herself.

Also even people who are related and look similar/have similar skin and hair types can actually need different products for their skin and hair care. There are just so many factors that go into what works for one person, that might be very different for another similar person. If cones help her hair be at its best then it's not really wasteful. If it's not in your budget though to have two sets of hair products that's something else and totally understandable.