Buns, braids joined in buns, help!

[Katze]

Dear all,

Since it's been so warm, I have been desperately trying to learn new ways of wearing my hair up.

Two dutch braids that start around my ears and are held together in the back seem to be a great solution for my wispy, frizzy side hair.

However, CONNECTING two such braids into a bun, or putting my hair in a bun, totally escapes me.

How do you do it? So many of you have these elegant, flat buns that grace the backs of your heads...mine always, always, get the "doorknob" look - even less attractive when your hair is thin and your head huge, as mine is.

I have faithfully copied peoples' directions, winding the ends carefully around the base of the bun, and the base, perhaps because it is so much thicker, always pops out and becomes a doorknob again.

Is it because my ends are so thin? Or am I just dumb? :silly:

any other hairdo idiots please feel free to help. It is 30+ degrees and humid, and I desperately need updos that work!

thanks (again)

Katze

[Gulbahar]

I have faithfully copied peoples' directions, winding the ends carefully around the base of the bun, and the base, perhaps because it is so much thicker, always pops out and becomes a doorknob again.
Nonono, when I start to wind the bun I pin the base down before having completed winding it once around. Especially with braided buns it's not advised to wrap the braid around the base because then exactly what you describe will happen. A base that is well pinned down from the beginning can't pop out later.
When you add pins carefully like after every five centimeters you can place the braid flat to you head and it won't crawl under the already formed bun.

[tiny_teesha]

if you want to try a braided bun just braid your hair and then place it in the cinnibun spiral formation useing bobby or amish pins to hold it on place, it creates a very flat bun i have found- i too get the doorknob effect if i tighten the last loops as they are thinner and slip under the initial spiral loop thing.

[Melisande]

You don't have to connect them. Make two braids, then wrap first the one, then the other. I use transparent silicone rings (from an ethnic hair shop) to keep my braid ends unobtrusive.

Do you have hair scroos? You can use them instead of pins. They keep things under control beautifully.

[aisling]

I guess your braids aren't round but more rectangular in shape, two shorter and two longer sides? What you have to do is to make sure one of the long, flat side lies down towards your head, if you wrap your bun tight, it sure will turn the short side towards your head. Wrap as loosely as possible, pin the middle down as suggested earlier or just hold it in place with one hand, that should make the bun flatter and then bigger looking.

Another idea is, as already suggested, bunning two braids but I never get as nice looking buns that way, I find it much harder.

[spidermom]

Some days I'm glad that I have such silky hair because it shines and feels terrific. But when I try to pin a bun or braids into place -- it's a nightmare! So all I can say is that I feel your pain.

[Masara]

I don't have any better answers for flat buns, mine seem to vary without me knowing what I've done differently.

When I link two braids into one, I make both until at least a couple of inches beyond where I'm going to join, then I find the point I want to join and I hold onto the two outer strands on each braid and hold both the inside strands together. I can hold all of that with one hand and I use the other hand to undo the bottom of the braids up to my fingers. Then it's just a case of rebraiding but with each strand containing two original stands.

Dreamweaver says something about doing this at a point where it would have been the outer strands' turn to cross. That's easy enough when you're braiding someone else's hair and I suppose it is possible to work it out by feel on the back of your head, but I don't bother with that sort of detail.

[eadwine]

How about this..

you end up with two braids, tie them in a knot, tie again if possible and then pin down (or up) against your head, tuck ends in. :)

[Hairstorm]

If you just pin the end of one braid to the base of the other and vice versa (tuck the ends underneath), you will have modified Gainsborough braids.

[atlantaz3]

I don't braid, but I figured out for buns that I flatten it as I go along turning the hair. The hand that is holding the bun is flattening while the other hand finishes the twist part. I also don't tighten the tail under the bun - I think that pushes out the rest of my hair. Lastly before I put in the hair stick or clip, I just flatten the bun so to speak by (and this is going to sound strange) just pulling outer top layer down, not really pulling the hair out, just sort of rearranging from the center so it's flatter.
I hope that made any sense - of course my hair is not super long yet, but it's thick and makes a bun too fat if I don't manipulate it some. In this case I would rather be wide than fat!

[maskedrose]

I'm glad the dutch braids are working out for the wispies katze! I always have to secure the two braids at my nape with a hairband. Then I brush out the tail and loosely (no twisting) wrap it around the base. Like someone else said, you could probably pin the first loop so that it lays flat. I like to make the bun loose and somewhat messy - it looks bigger that way :) Good luck!

[Katze]

thanks everyone!

Maskedrose, it looks nowhere near as elegant as yours, but it is tidy and durable. Thanks for the suggestion - you've added a big boost to my limited hairdo repertoire. I think I will try banding the braids first then brushing and bunning - that sounds like it would be a 'do I'd like.

Melisande, I have no idea what you mean by "wrap braids"? My hair is so thin that elastics barely stay in - I use very small, thin ones that I got in the USA. Hair toys are somewhat limited here, and our one African hair shop just shut down. Maybe you mean just pinning the braids one after the other to the middle of the back of my head? Like, one on top of each other in "C" shapes? Or two circles?

Scroos? I've seen them in the department store, they are very expensive and I'm not sure they'd work. U-shaped pins were a HUGE disappointment, so I stick with long bobby pins.

Tinyteesha, it's exactly the "cinnamon bun formation" - as I understood it, spiraling my hair around itself in a wide, flat spiral - makes a "doorknob." Maybe I've been doing it wrong by not pinning as I go, but every bun I have tried here - Chinese, Cinnamon, Bee Butt, Inside Out, Infinity, Figure 8...I forget - all look the same - a knob sticking straight out from the back of my head.

With braids, it's worse, as my braids are so small and thus stiff. They make little loops that don't lie flat unless pulled straight and flat.

Aisling, I'm afraid my braids are still too thin to have a "long side" at the ends. they are about as thick as a thin pencil for much of the length, which is why I wanted to bun the ends.

Several of you mentioned pinning the braids to each other. I already do this for coronet braids, or just two normal braids pinned up, and, while these 'dos suit me very well, they really do look very similar. So I was hoping to get a different look

So, trying to synthesize what you've all said:

in order to make a bun, or braided bun, that stays, I should

1) add pins to the base of the bun first - before securing the rest of the hair

2) pin regularly as I go, thus keeping the first "layer" flat

3) put the ends around the base of the bun - braided or not - UNtwisted, so they lie flat?

As soon as my hair is dirty enough I am going to try all this, and actually wear MaskedRose's 'do to work. Maybe even for my big meeting on Wednesday, to give me confidence.

thanks for all your help with my hairdo idiocy! :P

Katze

[Stagecoach]

My advice for buns, as I'm sure others have said is pin the coils as you go.

[maskedrose]

Maskedrose, it looks nowhere near as elegant as yours, but it is tidy and durable. Thanks for the suggestion - you've added a big boost to my limited hairdo repertoire. I think I will try banding the braids first then brushing and bunning - that sounds like it would be a 'do I'd like.


Hurray! I'm sure it looks awesome, and just remember, all those frustrating wispies will soon turn into coveted thickness and you won't have to worry about your thin ends anymore :)

[hurricane_gia]

Maybe you mean just pinning the braids one after the other to the middle of the back of my head? Like, one on top of each other in "C" shapes? Or two circles?



I'm interpreting it to mean that you make one cinnamon bun out of one braid, then you take the second braid and you go around the first cinnamon bun with the second braid. Visualize an archery target made of two braided circles.

LeaM07 has very good directions and pictures of how to pin a bun as you go along: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/blog.php?b=7026&goto=prev You may find those pictures helpful. I recommend that you first make a flat bun without pins (just hold you hair against your scalp) and find out where the tassel of your braid will be tucked in. Then, make the bun for real, pinning it as you go, but leave a gap on the inner coil where the tassel will go. I hope that description makes sense.

[Katze]

I tried, really hard, last week to do Masked Rose's updo.

This was the result (2nd try):

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/3747/maskrosdo2ndtryhd3.th.jpg (http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=maskrosdo2ndtryhd3.jpg)

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/5701/maskdrosdo2ndtry2dc5.th.jpg (http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=maskdrosdo2ndtry2dc5.jpg)

Yes, my hair was brushed beforehand! And misted and oiled, and this is BEFORE I even left the house.

What works for Masked Rose's thick hair sadly didn't work for mine. The sides did stay in place better, but the pathetically thin wad of orange hair that is my ends on a dirty day was unspeakably unattractive.

I guess I need to wash my hair more and wear it down instead of up. It just looks so terrible, I really despair of it ever being able to be neat in updos. What looks good in the mirror, too, doesn't look good from the back.

I'm really sad about these pics.

[Dientje]

Dear Katze,

Don't despair! As far as I understand your hair is still layered, which makes this style a bit more difficult, especially because the shorter hair will stick out of the braid. You will be able to do neat updo's, I'm sure.
Though I do think you braid very nicely! Maybe you can just tie off the braids at the nape, and let the ponytail hang losse?

Sorry I can't be more of help to you, but I didn't want you to despair!

[Katze]

thanks Dientje,

it's the taper and frizz, more than the layers, that bothered me with this 'do. It was the day of an important meeting, and I really didn't realize until I looked at the pics afterwards how terrible my hair really looked in the back! From the front, it was acceptable.

Ponytails are out because of my taper and old damage; A ponytail seriously looks fake on me because it is a different color than the rest of my hair and thin. Like something Barbie would have.

The big old bald spot where my hair spirals out at my crown is another problem here; it's how my hair falls naturally, and if I'm parting it in the middle in the back, I look like I have mange.

I was really sad; I wanted this to be a way to make buns work on me. Instead, I am not going to try any more new updos, nor try updos for special occasions, until my hair has grown another 6 months or so. They do nothing but make me frustrated with how pathetic my hair is.

thanks everyone for your help. Some day, when my hair's grown, maybe this will work.

Katze

[heidihug]

Hugs to you, Katze! We have very similar hair, as we've discussed before, mine's just a bit straighter than yours.

For the longest time, I had the same problem as you do - ridiculous looking updos because of odd bits of hair sticking out, nothing would hold buns together, and what I thought was a pathetically thin ponytail. Once I got close to waist or so, my updos really shaped up. I had lots of hair that was the same length and I was able to tuck stuff in where before I didn't have a place to tuck it into. It seemed easier to cover my hair "cleavage" problem areas, too. I still do use hair spray, though, to foil any sticky-outies and halo-frizz. I just can't do without it, as aloe and gels and conditioners used as smoothers just do not work with my hair.

For what it's worth, I think your hair looks lovely down, not unprofessional at all. And, for when you are able to do an updo that is more acceptable to you, I am sure it will look stunning, as you have a lovely neck - very classical, if I do say so myself. :)