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View Full Version : Darn it ! Maybe need to change my new routine....



UltraBella
October 23rd, 2010, 07:20 PM
I am having cone frustrations :(

I quit using cones and my hair looks awesome. My texture has come alive and I have been celebrating my wavy, slightly frizzy, big hair. BUT, when I get out of the shower it is near impossible to detangle my hair, to the point that I worry I may be causing damage. It doesn't matter which non-cone conditioner I use, thirty minutes later I am still trying to gently detangle. Its driving me nuts !

Last night I went back to cones just to see what would happen. I got out of the shower and had my hair detangled within five minutes. Yay !!! BUT, once my hair dried I was not impressed. It's flatter, less wave. Not as full and pretty.
*sigh*

Anyone else experienced this ???
Any suggestions ?

prosperina
October 23rd, 2010, 07:25 PM
Yup. I have the same problem, although currently I am using a lot of cones to get flatter hair, I prefer it fuller, but I'm super busy at the moment, so it's nice to have hair more controlled.

When I don't use cones though I like Giovanni's Direct Leave in Weightless Conditioner. Or sometimes I just use a lighter cone conditionner.

punkcatknitter
October 23rd, 2010, 07:27 PM
I just went through this. Detangling wasn't too terrible, but my hair felt like it was drier and I tried going back to using cones as an experiment. I thought it was great, until I saw a picture of my hair, which compared to the last one I'd taken, my hair looked flat, dull and greasy.

I'm now back off the cones and my nephew has literally been petting me all day and telling me how soft my hair is. So I think I'm off them for good. My current theory is that maybe I wasn't oiling enough. But I'm still pretty much a newbie here, so hopefully someone else has some actual suggestions.

But you're not alone!

Amarth
October 23rd, 2010, 07:27 PM
What conditioner are you using? Detangling has gotten easier for me since I started using GVP Conditioning Balm (the generic Matrix Biolage stuff at Sally's), and weekly SMTs seem to help a bit.

Capybara
October 23rd, 2010, 07:28 PM
My hair is straighter without cones as well, but, because I mostly wear it up, I don't usually mind. Love the waves with no cone though! Maybe you could detangle thoroughly before the shower, and then handle your hair as little as possible while in the shower to deter any further tangling? Or, would using a shampoo with cones but a conditioner without cones work? I'm interested in a solution to this as well.

And aside, your hair looks full and pretty no matter what :flower: It's frustrating when it doesn't do what we want it to, but you have gorgeous locks nonetheless :)

Luckysock
October 23rd, 2010, 07:28 PM
I have the same issue - I haven't really nailed it down a solution yet - but here is my advice:

- clarify as needed
- deep oiling on wet hair before shampooing (my hair like olive oil)
- acid rinse, ACV (I'm also trying coffee this week cause I hate the smell of ACV)

little_cherry
October 23rd, 2010, 07:31 PM
How about a leave in?

Neecola
October 23rd, 2010, 07:34 PM
When I don't use cones though I like Giovanni's Direct Leave in Weightless Conditioner.

Me too and I think it does a pretty good job, considering it is cone free.

I also wonder if a good detangling before the shower might help?

I have super fine hair curly hair which tangles easily. I don't know if it is a recommended practice, but I use a wide tooth comb in the shower after my cone-free shampoo has been saturating my hair for a few minutes. This has helped me greatly.

Lark
October 23rd, 2010, 07:55 PM
When I started using shampoo bars I had to give up on combing after showering. If I wait till my hair is completly dry and brush then it goes wonderfully, any attempt before and its like trying to comb glue out of my hair, lol.

Starflower
October 23rd, 2010, 07:59 PM
NEECOLA, I think you may be my hair twin! =) (My avatar is straightened)
I 2nd the leave in conditioner but I don't have any cone free suggestions. Oil isn't a great suggestion because your hair won't be as big but my cousin (she's my stylist) suggested I use jojoba oil or almond oil because it's a lighter oil. I haven't used it yet so not sure what that would do to the volume of your curls. Maybe just enough to shine your palms and then finger comb in enough to run a comb through while it's wet without yanking your hair out and then scrunch like crazy as it dries?

spidermom
October 23rd, 2010, 08:03 PM
My curl creme has 'cones. It works if I take the time to twirl strands around my fingers several times while it dries. I hate going no-cone because it makes my hair so hard to detangle, and it doesn't matter if my hair is wet or dry. The easiest time to comb is when my hair is full of conditioner in the shower.

RachelRain
October 23rd, 2010, 08:04 PM
I have problems with that too. I notice it's easier to brush through it if I use a vinegar rinse before I condition (I don't know why but there's a huge difference if I don't use it), and I also slather in a little extra conditioner after I squeeze all the water out (so right before I brush it), and then again after I manage to get it all brushed out.

Granted, mine's almost straight now, and I'm not sure how straight/curly your hair is normally, but those help for me.

eta - also! I just thought of this. if I oil fairly heavily and leave it in for a while, I can't quite wash all of it out, and that also helps me brush through it later.

(I gave up on my comb ages ago, my hair kept eating it.)

I will say this though - lucky you that cones vs non cones for you causes something visual :) my hair's flat no matter what I do. It's impossible to give this mess any volume, lol.

christine1989
October 23rd, 2010, 08:05 PM
I had the opposite experiance yesterday. For the first time in about a year I used cones and loved the texture but detangling was dreadful! I really like the volume it gave me the next morning too. When using no cones I find that a small amount of almond oil mixed into a spray of detangler works well. Strangely enough I get done detangling a lot faster when I comb from the roots to tips rather than staring at the ends.

mira-chan
October 23rd, 2010, 08:07 PM
When I started using shampoo bars I had to give up on combing after showering. If I wait till my hair is completly dry and brush then it goes wonderfully, any attempt before and its like trying to comb glue out of my hair, lol.
I also don't touch my hair with a comb until it's completely dry. My hair is not very tangly in general but I wouldn't be able to get a comb through it when wet even when it's full of conditioner.

I don't use cones, I have started using light conditioners like V05 as a leave in with success.

teela1978
October 23rd, 2010, 08:20 PM
Ease of detangling is a large part of why I stick with cones. Cone-free gives me perfectly pretty hair, but I have to spend a lot more time working out the tangles. Sorta moderate cone use works well for me, an intermediate between full/wavy and sleek/straight with relatively easy detangling. I just switch between coney and non-coney conditioners as it suits me.

UltraBella
October 23rd, 2010, 08:31 PM
I am so glad I am not the only one !!!!!

I love the actual Biolage Conditioning Balm, but not the knock off. I have been trying different conditioners because my hair is SO THICK, I use atleast a cup of conditioner every time I wash. So, the Biolage can get expensive.
For cone free I really really like Garnier Nutrisse Triple Nutrition conditioner and one by Say Yes To Carrots. But the tangles.......... Grrrrrr.
For cones, well, I own two salons, so I have every coney conditioner possible at my disposal. Love the ease of detangling, hate the flat dullness when dry.

The weird thing is, I do detangle in the shower while my conditioner is on and before I even get in the shower. But I am still having this problem. There is no way I could wait and detangle once my hair is completely dry, it would be a mess and my waves are best left undisturbed when dry.

Kristin
October 23rd, 2010, 08:38 PM
That's too bad. I was going to suggest detangling in the shower as well.

What's your wash routine? I mostly CO and when I do that detangling is easy, but when I use any shampoo detangling takes significantly longer and is (I believe) more damaging.

sarahbrownie
October 23rd, 2010, 08:46 PM
I think I damaged my hair big time from going cone-free. My hair always tangled and got split-ends galore. I'm happy I went back to cones, my hair needs that added slip and I'm addicted to the shine. I've just learned to clarify on the weekends and don't get that build-up, dull, and limpness I used to. I use to swear by all-natura products but have come to accept there is nothing wrong with cones or SLS for me.

UltraBella
October 23rd, 2010, 08:57 PM
My hair is so much shinier without cones, it is so interesting that everyone is so different.

Kristin, I use a sulfate free shampoo. Unless I am using cones, then I switch to a low sulfate shampoo. I tried CO but it's not for me and I have never had any damage or dryness from shampooing. When I was doing CO it was cone free and I still had the same detangling issue.

jenwexler
October 23rd, 2010, 08:59 PM
try sulfate free nature's gate shampoo and conditioner. it works wonders =]

GRU
October 23rd, 2010, 09:49 PM
I detangle in the shower, with conditioner in my hair for super-slipperiness.

Then I rinse, and add some more conditioner which I comb through and leave in.

When I get out of the shower, I can pull a comb from roots to ends with no problem. (and you KNOW what my hair looks like, so that's quite a feat! LOL)

UltraBella
October 23rd, 2010, 10:09 PM
Gru, you didn't share if you use cones or are cone free and I am very curious :)
My routine is very similar to yours, except I don't CO wash. But this tangle issue is really bothering me......

nellreno
October 23rd, 2010, 11:41 PM
I have to use *a lot* more conditioner when I don't use cones to detangle my hair.

plainjanegirl
October 24th, 2010, 12:12 AM
My hair is the same way. For now I am using cones and dealing with the thinner/flatter hair.

Dreams_in_Pink
October 24th, 2010, 03:56 AM
Your hair's similar to mine. This is what i do: I don't rinse the conditioner out. I step out the shower, squeeze all the water out, towel-dry and then i apply a good amount of cone-free conditioner to my length & ends and then comb my hair with it. When hair dries, it will probably soak all the conditioner in, then i apply oil to make it easier to comb.

This is what works for me though, your hair might feel heavy this way. Mine doesn't :)

slz
October 24th, 2010, 05:43 AM
Simple : no combing before hair is dry.

Feng-Shui
October 24th, 2010, 09:11 AM
Simple : no combing before hair is dry.

I agree with you.:)

The best and only way my hair wet to comb cones free is with the "Tangle Teezer".

I does only in emergency if I it very hasty has.

The best is to wait to the hair completely drying before you it combs.

Calaelen
October 24th, 2010, 09:24 AM
If I do use conditioner, it is cone free. I've learned that is impossible to detangle my hair when wet, so I leave it to air dry, and then detangle. This eliminates all that time spent fighting with my hair, while trying to be baby gentle with it, and damage is greatly decreased.

This works for me, because I only wash once or twice a week, and do it at a time I know I have 4 hours to wait for it to dry before combing it out.

Have you tried detangling it while in the shower, under the spray as you rinse out the conditioner? This has worked for me in the past. Apparently the downward spray helps detangle the hair. I also find a final ACV rinse helps in detangling, so you could try either of those ideas before going back to cones.

cindy58
October 24th, 2010, 09:34 AM
I usually wash at night and don't detangle until morning. I just grab a couple of bottles from under the sink -- usually based on which scent I feel like. I don't look to see if they are cone or no cone. My hair seems to dry a little smoother if I wash at night and go to bed with it wet/damp. Personally, I'm liking it a little smoother because the amount of hair I have now can be overwhelming for me, particularly if it's left loose (I don't do that too often.).

Demetrue
October 24th, 2010, 09:35 AM
Have you tried putting in a cone free conditioner all over, and then just using a coney conditioner on the bottom half of your hair?

Neecola
October 24th, 2010, 09:56 AM
NEECOLA, I think you may be my hair twin! =) (My avatar is straightened)
Hey, you're right Starflower! We're kinda a rare breed, huh? :D And we're both Illinoisians-- I'm just outside of Manhattan (about an hour's drive from Chicago) BTW, your hair is beautiful!

<Sorry for the hijack, folks! I don't think I can PM yet...>

I can't brush/comb my hair once it's dry as it gets super frizzy, so the only combing I do once I'm out of the shower is finger combing. Applying the Giovanni leave-in helps my fingers slide through my hair.

GRU
October 24th, 2010, 12:16 PM
Gru, you didn't share if you use cones or are cone free and I am very curious :)
My routine is very similar to yours, except I don't CO wash. But this tangle issue is really bothering me......

Cone-free for almost a year now.

So, you detangle in the shower with conditioner, then leave conditioner in after your shower, but in spite of that you're STILL all tangled up?

How does your hair get tangled between point A and point B? :confused:

Antipodienne
October 24th, 2010, 12:24 PM
I have the same issue - I haven't really nailed it down a solution yet - but here is my advice:

- clarify as needed
- deep oiling on wet hair before shampooing (my hair like olive oil)
- acid rinse, ACV (I'm also trying coffee this week cause I hate the smell of ACV)

I second the ACV rinse. Mine had a bit of an adjustment period after I stopped the cones but it's gotten easier to deal with over time. I've never tried coffee, I'll have to investigate!

lajsa
October 24th, 2010, 12:27 PM
I went no-cone when I stopped using schampoo. I don't know if it's the lack of cones or the CO, but my hair feels so much better than it used to, it's got more body and feels softer and more shiny. Perhaps try and improve the conditioning when you're in the shower? Try a different brand or something? Use some oil when detangling? Even before I started no-cone-CO my hair stayed pretty much untangled in the shower as long as I combed it before wetting it, though, so perhaps I'm not the best person to help. You don't pile your hair on top of your head while washing, I suppose?

chopandchange
October 24th, 2010, 12:32 PM
Em, yes. I tried going no-cone and whilst it made my hair softer, detangling it was IMPOSSIBLE. It caused HUGE amounts of damage. Cone-free may be OK for those who don't have tangly hair, but it didn't work for me either.

09robiha
October 24th, 2010, 12:51 PM
Ultrabella ever tried Kinky Curly Knot Today. Without doubt the slippest, best detangler I have ever found cone or no cone. Stuff melts through knots and tangles like butter!

GoddesJourney
October 24th, 2010, 12:58 PM
I use GF Triple Nutrition because it is really heavy and slightly oily. It seems to deal with that situation for me. If I CO with other conditioners it seems to be awful to comb through as if my hair were just slightly rough or something. Not a big fan.

restourceful
October 24th, 2010, 01:06 PM
ACV is a natural detangler because it closes the cuticle making the hairs less grabby. I was amazed at how tangle free my hair was with ACV rinses.

A light coconut oiling works, too. I put the tiniest amount on my palm, rub my hands together and flip my head over to apply, ends first, then up the length just to my ears.

And I'm with lajsa, technique matters. You aren't piling it on your head when you wash, right?


I second the ACV rinse. Mine had a bit of an adjustment period after I stopped the cones but it's gotten easier to deal with over time. I've never tried coffee, I'll have to investigate!

I understand coffee is drying so I'd be careful if you are going to experiment.

BelleBot
October 24th, 2010, 02:01 PM
I found playing about with different cone free conditioners does wonders for finding something to help with detangling. I'm very impressed with Tresemme Naturals conditioner which is cone free but has a lot of slip so feels like a coney conditioner especially in terms of detangling.
So I currently use that in combination with a pre condition to stop tangles whilst shampooing my scalp, and also Body Shop hair butter on the ends to make them extra soft.

Some cone free conditioners have a lot more slip than others, so it's worth trying a few different ones to find something to suit you.

UltraBella
October 24th, 2010, 04:15 PM
No, I m definitely not piling all my hair on my head to wash it, lol.

And it's not my length where I have this issue, it's the crown of my head where my waves turn into crazy kinky afro hair. Detangling after my hair dries would make it a frizzy disaster, so that is just not an option for me, but I am glad it works for so many of you.

ktani
October 24th, 2010, 05:05 PM
Try adding coconut oil to your shampoo, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=57025.

anthonyswife
October 24th, 2010, 06:18 PM
The only thing that works for me is to detangle with my fingers only while I'm in the shower and still have all the conditioner in my hair. I think it also has helped lately that I've been oiling more frequently. I've been using GF Triple Nutrition and this is the first time I've ever had success using cone-free conditioner.