What is long hair on men?

[Barbie Diamond]

I have seen many threads on discussions of long hair on men vs. short hair. I have even seen the Bible quoted, etc. But if you notice, it does not specify the length. We moderns are imposing our view of short hair on the Bible and in our discussions. In the past long hair on women typically meant terminal, classic and beyond; and short hair on men could be around mid back and above (as in many Native American cultures). I think we have to be careful in assuming our definitions. Most of us in this forum (men and women) would be considered to have short hair according to all people before the year 1800. It was the French Revolution with Napoleon dictating a modern definition of short hair for his soldiers to help them fight better in the field with less concern about hair getting in the way. Short hair and long hair are comparative and should be pegged to a standard that was understood in the past not the present and not to personal feelings.

[JenniferNoel]

Yesterday is yesterday; if we try to recapture it, we will only lose tomorrow. We must realize and accept that what was at one time standard has faded over the course of time, and evolution not only of the body but of the mind, culture, beliefs, and leisure is an ever expanding (or collapsing for that matter :p) phenomenon.
Long hair today is a relative choice, however if one wishes to hold their personal length standards to those of which long hair was commonplace, then there is no problem with that. If one wishes to view long hair as a personal relativity, then there is no problem with that.
To me, long hair is a specific feeling past a certain length that I strive for, it's more about how it behaves and looks then the actual label on the length.
When it comes to men, I personally notice the hair to be long-ish when it is at or past the shoulders. Anything below APL is long for men and most people will agree with that statement.
In biblical days, the definition of male short hair would have probably been about three to five inches at most. Enough to not cover the shoulders or neck. Ironically, most paintings of Jesus seen appear to sport relatively long hair, so I may be wrong on my hypothesis.

[enfys]

I imagine that up until not so long ago (on the scale of things) a mans hair would have always been able to be measured in full inches; now it is commonplace (here at least) that the length is measurable in fractions of an inch.

To me, long hair on a men is hair able to make a pony stub.

There are people who consider long hair on a woman to mean shoulder length or more; in a Google search little more than a bob will come up as "long hair".

[bte]

Like any question, it all depends on the context. "Long" is a comparative, not an absolute term.

Although men with longer hair than "usual" are more accepted and there are more of us than before the 1960s, the general public still assumes that most men will have hair not much longer than the average politician or businessman.

Somewhere on the web is an entry by a 20 year old man with a picture of his "extremely long hair". It is just visible below his ears from the front, and I doubt if there is a single hair more than an inch and an half long. At the opposite end of the scale, here in this community a man with "extremely long hair" would only be someone like EdG or Dave Decker. (Hi folks!).

But to answer your question, I would think for a male, "long" could, even in 2010, be defined as "long enough to wear in a ponytail". That is long enough for anyone, even an LHC member, to notice.

[mariika]

Long hair on men at my place is chin-length.

[swivelhop]

I've never even seen a biblical passage saying men should have short hair. Just one saying women should have long hair. Maybe I'm missing something.

[RadiantNeedle]

When I read the title of this thread, all I really wanted to say in response was...
"Gorgeous!"

[EdG]

At the opposite end of the scale, here in this community a man with "extremely long hair" would only be someone like EdG or Dave Decker. (Hi folks!).Hi bte! :)

Barbie Diamond, I consider shoulder-length hair to be medium length. Waist-length hair is long. Classic-length hair is very long.

This applies to both men and women. I am an "equal opportunity hair typer". :D
Ed

[Themyst]

I've always considered bsl length on men to be long. Strangely, I have a different idea for women, as it is waist-length before considered long. :hmm:

[Sanyia]

APL is what I consider long on a guy.

[confucious]

I do feel the standard is a little different for men than it is women. Simply due to the accepted norms of society being at vastly different length.

I would consider a woman's hair long if it is in the BSL vicinity. While I would consider a man's hair long if it can start being classified in such terms :P

As shown by the other posts, this is all in the eye of the beholder. While it was accepted way back when for men to have longer hair, standards have changed (with some utility for it in mind).

[Sanyia]

I do feel the standard is a little different for men than it is women. Simply due to the accepted norms of society being at vastly different length.

I would consider a woman's hair long if it is in the BSL vicinity. While I would consider a man's hair long if it can start being classified in such terms :P

As shown by the other posts, this is all in the eye of the beholder. While it was accepted way back when for men to have longer hair, standards have changed (with some utility for it in mind).

If you asked the same question 50 years ago, people would have probably said "covering the ears" or "touching the collar of his shirt". Perception is everything. :)

[DavidN]

This is such a interesting discussion. I used to consider long hair on myself as somewhere between "covering the ears", and "chin length". That would be considered fairly short by my standards now. Generally, one's perception of what is "long" or "short" changes the longer the hair gets.

[hela]

It's true: The standard seems to change whether it's a man or a woman (at least in my mind).

To me, a long haired man should have around BSL... lol come to think of it, bra strap length sounds odd for a guy :-D For a woman, I think she has long hair if it nears her waist.

I agree with DavidN:


Generally, one's perception of what is "long" or "short" changes the longer the hair gets.

[Lamb]

It was the French Revolution with Napoleon dictating a modern definition of short hair for his soldiers to help them fight better in the field with less concern about hair getting in the way.

Not to be persnickety, but - source, please? :ponder: And the French Revolution is not the same as Napoleon's reign and campaigns, just saying. :twocents:

I don't think we can say that terminal length has ever been a universal length goal, or that every Victorian woman aimed for hair as long as that. Regency updos required much shorter hair, and only a very small percentage of women had hair enough for the elaborate chignons and top-knots of the 1860s-1900s. FWIW, pixie-short hair did enjoy a phase of popularity among high-class ladies in the 19th century, too.

I agree with your main point (what we call "long" and "short" may be a far cry from what people understood by these terms a few centuries earlier), I just wanted to point out some fallacies in your argument which seem to contradict the very point you want to make.

[Barbie Diamond]

Not to be persnickety, but - source, please? And the French Revolution is not the same as Napoleon's reign and campaigns, just saying. Not to be persnickety:http://histclo.com/style/head/hair/hair-histet1789.html

http://www.blastmilk.com/decollete/guillotine/


I've never even seen a biblical passage saying men should have short hair. Just one saying women should have long hair. Maybe I'm missing something.http://www.holycross-hermitage.com/pages/Orthodox_Life/longhair.htm

Hope that helps.

[Honeylove]

When I read the title of this thread, all I really wanted to say in response was...
"Gorgeous!"
Hehe, same here!:D



Barbie Diamond, I consider shoulder-length hair to be medium length. Waist-length hair is long. Classic-length hair is very long.

This applies to both men and women. I am an "equal opportunity hair typer". :D
Ed
I totally agree with you, Ed.

[Lamb]

Not to be persnickety:http://histclo.com/style/head/hair/hair-histet1789.html

http://www.blastmilk.com/decollete/guillotine/

Neither of these are scholarly, reliable resources with research backed up by sources one can review/check. They provide very sketchy information, like some sort of children's encyclopedia.
(The first one at least doesn't mix up Napoleon and the Revolution.)

Nice pictures, but that's about it. Sorry about being so difficult, I just really don't like "popular" history and all the urban legends it gives rise to. :shrug:

[growing2shine]

Where I live men with chin- and shoulder length is very commom, but men with waist length and beyond is VERY rare. Here, long hair for women is BSL, but women with waist length and beyond is quite common. But in my personal opinion I think that long hair for both men and women is about waist.

[Pierre]

I've never even seen a biblical passage saying men should have short hair. Just one saying women should have long hair. Maybe I'm missing something.
1 Cor. 11:4: Πας ανήρ προσευχόμενος ή προφητεύων κατά κεφαλής έχων καταισχύνει την κεφαλήν αυτού. Every man praying or prophesying down head having shames his head.
11:14: Ή ουδέ αυτή η φύσις*διδάσκει υμάς ότι ανήρ μεν εάν κομά, ατιμία αυτώ εστι; Or doesn't nature itself teach you that, on one hand, if a man have coma, it is dishonor to him?

The word coma (or komē) is the one explained on Orthodox Life as "hair as an ornament". (The word that just means "hair" is θριξ, plural τρίχες.) Comparing the two verses, and the word "comet" which is derived from it, it seems to me that κόμη means long hair loose, not in an updo. So when I go to church, I put my hair up. On other days, I have enough loose to reach my shoulder (any more would get caught in bag straps).

Biblical law allows someone to take a Nazirite vow, one condition of which is to avoid haircuts. Paul himself was a temporary Nazirite (Acts 18:18), so it is absurd for him to say that long hair, in and of itself, is a dishonor to men.

[enfys]

Just to throw another thing in here, didn't Roman soldiers have short hair long before Napolean came along? Hence the Ceasar cut for men?

Unless people specified the length of hair in inches in any document we have nothing historical to peg our standards to.

The point of fashion is that it changes and evolves and for many/most that's all hair is. Fashion.

[IcarusBride]

I consider past ear length to be longer-then-normal on a man. That is, it's not LONG, but it's worth noticing, and perhaps a step on the way to longer hair.

[Arriens]

Just to throw another thing in here, didn't Roman soldiers have short hair long before Napolean came along? Hence the Ceasar cut for men?
Romans cut there hair because they wanted to look civilised and groomed as opposed to the barbarians/pirates/criminals who had long hair. (The barbarians were thougd to be ungroomed because they used bearfat instead of olive oil.)

[Sunsailing]

Paul himself was a temporary Nazirite (Acts 18:18), so it is absurd for him to say that long hair, in and of itself, is a dishonor to men.


Yes it would be, but that is not what Paul was referring to. (He was referring to the way a certain group was living at the time....his point had nothing to do with the literal length of a man's hair).
To understand anything in the Bible, one must put it in the context of the local time period.

[desertgirl]

I'm mixing my Facebook and LHC! I was looking for the 'like' button! Equal opportunity hair typing!

[Hylia]

For me it is anything past shoulder.

[bte]

Hi bte! :)

Barbie Diamond, I consider shoulder-length hair to be medium length. Waist-length hair is long. Classic-length hair is very long.

This applies to both men and women. I am an "equal opportunity hair typer". :D
Ed
I agree on equal opportunity - I'm a great advocate of equality in all ways - but I think that two things are relevant. First, the perception of society as a whole, which isn't egalitarian as regards hair; and second, from my observations, I am sure that if all cutting of hair were banned (lock up the stylists - there's an idea!), fewer men than women would achieve the "very long" lengths of classic or beyond.

[Pierre]

Yes it would be, but that is not what Paul was referring to. (He was referring to the way a certain group was living at the time....his point had nothing to do with the literal length of a man's hair).
To understand anything in the Bible, one must put it in the context of the local time period.
What was the group, and how was it living?

[Venefica]

I think half long hair on men is anything below the jaw line. And long hair is anything that can make a ponytail.

[drquartz1970]

mininum of midback length for men, waist-length or longer for women