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Elenna
March 11th, 2008, 05:08 PM
Why is a chignon (sophisticated) versus a bun (not so sophisticated).

It's not semantics there really is a difference between these two hair styles. What is your take on this?

Elenna

birthmarkie
March 11th, 2008, 05:19 PM
Looking at the various chignon styles on the internet, it seems to me to be just a French word for "bun" because there isn't just one "chignon" or "bun" style. I do not think buns are unsophisticated, so I'm not sure what you mean. I venture to guess that there are messy chignons, just like there are messy buns...

florenonite
March 11th, 2008, 05:20 PM
I see chignons as beinga type of bun, worn at the nape of the neck, and very smooth with no pins or hair sticking out, whilst buns can be higher up and messier.

FrannyG
March 11th, 2008, 05:24 PM
Yes, a chignon is generally a bun, but is worn low on the head, often referred to as a nape bun.

Islandgrrl
March 11th, 2008, 05:28 PM
I wiki'd chignon and this is what I found:

A chignon, pronounced "sheen-yon,” is a popular type of bun style. The word “chignon” comes from the French phrase “chignon du cou,” which means nape of the neck. Chignons are generally achieved by pinning the hair into a knot at the nape of the neck, but there are many different variations of the style. They are frequently worn for special occasions, like weddings and formal dances, but the basic chignon is also worn for everyday casual wear.

So it appears that a chignon is a bun, but a bun is not necessarily a chignon.

Shell
March 11th, 2008, 05:40 PM
Ah, but if you look at videos on YouTube about buns, French ones will come up called "chignons" and describe all kinds of buns (high and low). Seems, that though technically there may be a difference, in common usage they seem fairly interchangeable.

My suspicion, as an historian, is that a particular French bun/chignon style became popular in England or America, and was called a chignon, after the original style from France. It was probably a low or nape bun, maybe the one that became popular during the Civil War, and thereafter denoted in English a smooth, sophisticated nape bun.

Just musing on historical trivia--everyone needs a hobby.

Elenna
March 11th, 2008, 05:41 PM
Birthmarkie – I’m not sure what I mean either.

Florenonite – you are getting warm. It’s still a bun but elegant.

Frannyg – getting warmer, another good definition.

Islandgrrl – it seems to be a bun that directly rests on the neck instead of being confined to the head. So it’s another variation of the bun but worn somewhat differently. It makes me wonder if this bun is seen on ballerinas.

Elenna

birthmarkie
March 11th, 2008, 05:45 PM
Birthmarkie – I’m not sure what I mean either.

Elenna

LOL! I see now that chignons are to be worn low at the nape - maybe not showing your neck is considered more "modest" and hence more "sophisticated" :confused:

Elenna
March 11th, 2008, 05:49 PM
Shell – well, call anything by a French name and get instant chic.

Elenna

manyhorsesmane
March 11th, 2008, 05:54 PM
Now I'm confused :confused:
I have been wearing a "chignon 5-prong fork", wearing it like a French Twist (Fr. roll?) that sits at back of head rather flat...... I was told by the Manuf. they call them Chignon forks, likewise the wavy pins are called "Chignon pins"...are we just a bunch of screwy Americans? LOL

Elenna
March 11th, 2008, 05:55 PM
Drat it, at APL my hair is too short for this style. GGGGGGRRRRRRR!

A chignon needs more hair. Maybe, a person with BSL hair can do this style. Mine is kind of wimpy.

Elenna

Elenna
March 11th, 2008, 05:59 PM
manyhorsesmane -- French twist, French chignon, French braids -- anything else have a French name?

Elenna

manyhorsesmane
March 11th, 2008, 06:44 PM
French Dressing...French Fries...French Vanilla.....O- sorry, I guess Im hungry! You can smack me now, you asked! :boxer:

sapphire-o
March 11th, 2008, 06:45 PM
I always thought it just means any sort of updo that's neat. Chignon pins wouldn't sound so good if you call them "bun pins" or "bun forks". :D And who needs any of those when you can have Ficcare?

Elenna
March 11th, 2008, 09:22 PM
Manyhorsesmane – don’t forget French toast. I’m hungry too. I better go make dinner.

Sapphire-o – I couldn’t help noticing that you are Canadian. Yes, at times things do sound better in a foreign language. I agree about the Ficcares; they are a great invention, finally can do up-dos that took a ton of bobby pins.

Elenna

Shell
March 11th, 2008, 09:25 PM
Shell – well, call anything by a French name and get instant chic.

Elenna

Exactly!!!!

manyhorsesmane
March 11th, 2008, 09:31 PM
Elena Oh thank you! Guess what I had for dinner..... Chicken French-jitas!!! YARIBA! LOL

Sapphire-o I've been hearing so much about those Ficarre, (eadwine, thankyou!) that I have to get one...right after I get a 60th Street, and hopefully for under my bank account's worth LOL!

YAY I finally got my EDIT button back.... Ficarre=Ficcares, thanks Elena! :-)

Masara
March 12th, 2008, 02:05 AM
As far as I'm concerned, Chignon is just the French word for a bun. (but that's probably because I live in France) I think the idea of a chignon being more "sophisticated" comes from the idea of "French chic" etc. And anything in a foreign language always seems to sound more sophisticated

In France a French braid is a tresse africane and a French twist is a chignon banane. (now that doesn't sound sophisticated at all)

chloeishere
March 12th, 2008, 02:20 AM
In France a French braid is a tresse africane and a French twist is a chignon banane. (now that doesn't sound sophisticated at all)

Heh, banana bun! From now on, I should tell everyone that the only updo I can do regularly is a banana bun! :p:D;)

I totally agree, it's just the French way of saying "bun." I guess if you want people to think of your hairstyles as sophisticated, you should just refer to them as "my chignon." Most things sound more sophisticated in French, after all.
Voila mon oreille! You can see it in my avatar. :silly:

Merlin
March 12th, 2008, 05:03 AM
Why does the same thing in a french restaurant always sound more poncey....

Anlbe
March 12th, 2008, 05:27 AM
My grandmother always wore a bun near the top of her head which she called a chignon and her first language was french.

Sarahmoon
March 12th, 2008, 06:43 AM
When I google "chignon" I find all kinds of updos. Low, high, hairtoys stinking out etc. It's probably just another word for "updo".

Saoirse
March 12th, 2008, 06:49 AM
Why does the same thing in a french restaurant always sound more poncey....

It's cos of where you live :wink:

Stagecoach
March 12th, 2008, 07:39 AM
Shell – well, call anything by a French name and get instant chic.

Elenna


haha, maybe this is why hairdressers call all types of buns chignon's instead of buns!

atlantaz3
March 12th, 2008, 08:34 AM
french bread?

frizzinator
March 12th, 2008, 09:04 AM
My chignon is something like a ponytail/bun combo .....sounds like fast food

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee178/frizzliz/12808019.jpg

Elenna
March 12th, 2008, 03:00 PM
Manyhorsesmane – what about Napoleons and file mignon?

Sapphire-o - Ficcare it is.

Shell –
From Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, 1594:
JULIET:
'Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
Thou art thyself, though not a Montague.
What's Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!
What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;
So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call'd,
Retain that dear perfection which he owes
Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name,
And for that name which is no part of thee
Take all myself.

Manyhorsesmane - mixing up cuisines too, oh my!

Masara - so a chignon is merely a banana bun in French! That doesn’t sound sophisticated, not one-single bit.

Chloeishere - mon cherie, you must be French!

Merlin - is poncey a word for pricey?

Anlbe - well, that blows the theory of a nape/neck bun out the window!

Sarahmoon – my ds calls that Googlewhacking.

Saoirse – is cos for cost, like in costly?

Stagecoach – that’s so the hairdressers can charge more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Atlantaz3 – French Bread, that’s a good one. I often wondered what was the difference between French Bread and San Francisco bread.

Frizzinator – the ponytail/bun combo fast food hair do. It looks like you just rolled the ponytail up. What do you use to hold it in place?

manyhorsesmane
March 12th, 2008, 03:26 PM
Masara: chignon banane...banana combs anyone?

elena: Let us not forget eclairs!!!!

Atlantaz3 The difference between French and San Fransisco Sourdough is the cultured yeast. And nobody does it better'n San Fran, IMHO. I'll have a ham and swiss on sourdough with 1000 Island please! :D


Merlin ce qui est "poncey"?

Me, I have Francaise on my Mom's side, Italian Dad, would that make me a French Spaghetti Head? I loves a good smorgasborg-grande buffet to you Suthanuhs out there *giggles

And STANDARD POODLES are NOT French, contrary to popular belief~if anyone wants to challenge me on that, lets take it to the Pets Arena! :boxer: LOL

Merlin
March 12th, 2008, 05:50 PM
Merlin ce qui est "poncey"?



Er, "poncey" c'est le term anglaise pour le tarting stuff up in unnecessary ways in un quest pour refinement. Le term "poncey" implies le needless decoration est le elaboration - c'est un term tout les anglaise understand but which nes pas les anglaise can explain!

manyhorsesmane
March 12th, 2008, 07:20 PM
AHhhhhh très bon! Sort of like Fancy-schmancy doo-dads in Wisconsin-ese :D

votre anglais est bon, mon Français est rouillé,

il est été les années 30+ depuis la classe française de lycée mais j'aime cette langue.

I'm cheating, I can read but I can't spell correctly... I use altavista-babelfish to help translate...my bad...:cool:
http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr

Wavelength
March 12th, 2008, 07:29 PM
Er, "poncey" c'est le term anglaise pour le tarting stuff up in unnecessary ways in un quest pour refinement. Le term "poncey" implies le needless decoration est le elaboration - c'est un term tout les anglaise understand but which nes pas les anglaise can explain!

That is one of the best examples of "franglais" ever. :lol:

jojo
March 12th, 2008, 08:07 PM
i always thought a chignon was a bun placed low down?

manyhorsesmane
March 12th, 2008, 08:37 PM
That is one of the best examples of "franglais" ever. :lol:

Wavelength ROFL I am having a riot picking my braincells back 30+ yrs teehee!!

Elenna
March 12th, 2008, 08:38 PM
Looks like the a little bit of French (a song) turned into a long franglais (mixed up symphony).

Elenna

manyhorsesmane
March 12th, 2008, 09:20 PM
Did I mess up my Francaise that bad?!?! ........30+ yrs and still picking.....O LOOK what I found, that Polly Pocket doll I got when I was 8! YAY

you say "Chignon" I say "Hoosker Doo" heheee

Here's a fun game to pick those memory cells:
http://www.hcsi.com/pages/games/HooskerDoo/HooskerDoo.html

JennQ
March 12th, 2008, 10:51 PM
Merriam-Webster says:
Etymology:
French, from Middle French chaignon chain, collar, nape
Date:
1783

: a knot of hair that is worn at the back of the head and especially at the nape of the neck

The only high-school French I remember is "Vous est un anana," which, of course, means "You are a pineapple." Useful, eh?

manyhorsesmane
March 12th, 2008, 10:54 PM
I remember pomme de terre, "apple of the earth"...

what is it about French makes me thing FOODS throughout this entire thread.......elenna? (snickers)

prosperina
March 12th, 2008, 11:10 PM
Merlin and manyhorsesmane, your franglais made me choke on my tea and nearly spit it out my nose. :D How very not gentilles of you.

My understanding is that chignon is pretty much the same thing as bun anymore, even in French. Someone else said this. It's like the silly LUSH people that give their henna colors French names.

Masara
March 13th, 2008, 12:50 AM
. It's like the silly LUSH people that give their henna colors French names.

Yes, I've never really understood why they chose to call their henna blocks "poo"
Love the franglais. I just wish my students didn't do it so often:(

Elenna
March 13th, 2008, 02:22 PM
Manyhorsesmane – no, not at all, really. I can’t tell the difference! Of course, I don’t speak French.

JennQ – THE dictionary Merriam-Webster is a pretty good authority.

Manyhorsesmane – French joie de la vie includes food. I’d love to visit Paris one day. Let's restate that, eat my way through Paris. DH can go to Idaho. (Family joke here).

Prosperina – that’s because we are being funny here.

Masara – (checked in Babelfish) you’re right, EEEEEEEKKKKKKKK! That’s not right. It’s just plain wrong. But it shows that a French name can prettify just about anything. OMG!

Elenna

prosperina
March 13th, 2008, 02:33 PM
I know you're being funny. :)The laughing brought on the choking brought on the spewing. As I said, it's not gentil to make people spew. :-p

Masara- I use franglais to make my students laugh... I probably shouldn't but some of them are entirely too serious, but when they write it in papers it makes me want to slap them.

The Petit Robert only mentions the nape of the neck as a historical meaning. It essentially says that a chignon is a hair style that consists of the hair being pulled up and back either on the head or in the back of the head. Therefore the definition is the same in both languages. And I am really nerdy.

Elenna
March 13th, 2008, 02:39 PM
manyhorsesmane – croissants, ratatouille, anchois. crème fouettée, crême glacée, fromage.

Elenna

Elenna
March 13th, 2008, 02:43 PM
And I am really nerdy.

Yes, me too. It's hard not being nerdy. I'd rather be chic. ;)

Elenna