Humectants and Winter?

[morecowbell]

Last week I finally bought glycerin and added it to my spray bottle... and let me say: What a difference!:cheese: Bounce, shine, gloss, slip! :D It really is amazing stuff!

BUT! As fall is fast approaching (and winter hot on it's heels), I'm wondering about using glycerin and honey in those dry months.
The conditioner I use for my length has honey in it, and I can definitely feel a difference in moisture when I use it versus a lighter condish, will I have to retire my honey conditioner during the dry months?
Has anyone had experience using glycerin or honey during the winter or in dry climates?

TIA! :D

[lajsa]

I haven't used it during the winter yet, but I would like to know too ;) I live above the polar circle and it's quite cold here in winter; I have the feeling some moisture would help protect the hair or something, as long as I try and protect it from the cold?

I really have no idea, though. :p

[AstrayStar]

I would like to know too!

[xoxophelia]

For me, I'm pretty sure the culprit that was making my hair look horrible last winter was humectants. I was using Biolage Conditioning Balm which is loaded with them and it was turning my hair into hay. I would use more of it and leave it in longer but it kept getting worse. When I switched to some cheap VO5 is cleared up -__-' ... (I wasn't heat styling or doing anything else that would contribute).

I think when there was such low moisture in the air perhaps it sucked water out of my hair. I'm really not sure though.

You should probably just try it out and see how it goes. If you hair becomes worse, you can always change your routine.

[ktani]

It depends on how much of the humectant(s) is on the hair. As it has been said, if a product is loaded with them it can be a problem.

[Artsy]

If you keep your hair covered under a hat/hood etc humectants won't cause any damage
________
MEXICO HOTELS (http://mexicohoteles.org)

[Kaijah]

Mostly you're going to want to avoid them. A little won't hurt in a rinse out, but I wouldn't use any in your leave in.... humectants pull moisture to wherever it's lower; whether it's to your hair or from it (and in that winter dryness... your hair will lose).

Some links;
CurlChemist on Humectants (http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curly-q-a/curlchemist-humidity-humectants-and-hair)
Pittsburg Curly (http://pittsburghcurly.wordpress.com/2009/01/23/its-not-the-humidity-its-the-humidity/) It's not the humidity... it's the humidity
Cold Weather Hair Care (http://jillipoo.blogspot.com/2008/12/cold-weather-hair-care.html)

They're all curly girls, but the advice applies to all hair types.

[HintOfMint]

During the winter I used humectants but only in the shower. I would either load it into my rinse-out conditioner, or I would dab on a bit when it was up in a bun but not going to be wet. Then it could take advantage of the moisture from the shower. After I get out of the shower though, I use some coconut oil to seal in the moisture.
I once had put some aloe in my hair, during the winter, when I was just walking around. FRIZZ CENTRAL.

[ktani]

I should have been more clear - in rinse off products I do not think it will make a huge difference as long as the hair is well rinsed. With leave-in products it can make a difference, again, depending on how much product is used.

Irreversible damage? No. Dry hair? Yes. I do not think there will be any damage as such.

[Kathie]

What about adding some oil to your mister bottle? I’ve heard that this can help with moisture loss. Mine also contains glycerine, aloe vera and sweet almond oil.
Maybe it’ll be an experimentation thing? Like ktani said, maybe you’ll need to drop down the concentration you use- depending on whether its particularly high to start with.

[aenflex]

I live in a very humid climate and have found humectants my my leave in preparations to be a double-edged sword. They add moisture but also cause me unwanted frizz, so I end up oiling but the result is odd. I still use honey, but only in SMT which I eventually rinse out. I too though perhaps a dryer climate would give a better result?

[x0h_bother]

I'm glad you posted this, for the opposite reasons. My hair is fine with glycerine in the winter, but in the summer, and even now, humectants=dryness and aweful frizz. I can't wait until dry weather! :-( :-)

[Anje]

First, I think it's worth considering what sort of heating you normally usually encounter. Here in the US, our winter heating is usually in the form of hot, dry air being blown out of a furnace, resulting in very dry houses unless the furnace is equipped with a humidifier. If your home and workplace are heated with other methods, the air may not be anywhere near as dry, meaning that humectants may be quite nice year-round. If you have forced-air heat, it's definitely worth considering getting a few humidifiers -- your skin as well as your hair will appreciate a somewhat more humid environment.

Personally, I haven't found that I need to switch my products in the winter, even with forced air heating. I don't know exactly why that is, but I think it helps that my hair is generally contained. No matter what time of year, if I leave my hair loose, it feels dryer by the end of the day than if I wear it up.

[morecowbell]

Thanks for all the replies! :)
I think I'm getting an idea of what to expect... I think I'll just do some experimenting and see what works and what doesn't. (as per xoxophelia :) )
And thanks for putting the word out there about humidifiers, Anje! I've got one I run 24 hrs a day in winter-time (thanks to forced air), and I can tell I feel much more moisturized in general when I use it.

[RedButterfly]

It also depends upon how much glycerin is in a product. If a leave-in or styling product, such as a gel, has a small amount of glycerin and many other conditioning ingredients, it may still be okay in the winter. If glycerin is listed in the middle or near the end of the ingredients list, it might be such a small amount that it won't cause problems.

[swivelhop]

I'm glad you posted this, for the opposite reasons. My hair is fine with glycerine in the winter, but in the summer, and even now, humectants=dryness and aweful frizz. I can't wait until dry weather! :-( :-)

Similar situation here. Thanks for reminding me, winter will come, and so will the good hair.

[Buddaphlyy]

I can use honey in my rinse-out/deep conditioners in the winter, but no humectants in my leave-in. I have a glycerin based leave-in now that I'm frantically trying to use up before the end of the month.

[morecowbell]

I can use honey in my rinse-out/deep conditioners in the winter, but no humectants in my leave-in. I have a glycerin based leave-in now that I'm frantically trying to use up before the end of the month.

Haha, same here! I'm doing lots of Deep treatments and other things while it's still humid outside! :D

[Kristin]

Reviving this thread; it seems appropriate for the season (and weather in Ohio- SNOW!).

I bought a tub of Lush's R&B the other day, only thinking that I loved the sample I'd been given. Didn't notice until later that the 2nd ingredient is glycerin. I'm reading conflicting arguments regarding the humectants in winter issue: some say that they're okay so long as you are steaming your hair or using the product in the shower; others claim that you should remove them from your routine completely.

Personally, I am considering adding some R&B to my deep conditioner, rinsing, and sealing with an oil. I do recall making a conscious effort to quit humectants last winter, but I think I was simply following advice and not experience.

[shikara]

In smaller living quarters, a vaporizer works great for humidity and cost. Humectants in winter are disaster for my hair. I'd rather stay away from them but YMMV!!

[ravenreed]

I live in a very dry area. Humectants are pretty hard on my hair. Glycerin leads to instant masses of split ends. I normally use the plain wrap version of Biolage Matrix but lighten up on it during the winter. During the winter, even rinsed out really well, humectants are a problem here.

[Kristin]

Hmmmm...well, I added a decent-sized dollop of the aforementioned glycerin-laden R&B to my henna gloss today and my hair is amazing. Seriously smooth, shiny, and tangle-free. I ran some oil over my still-damp hair. Hopefully I'll be able to continue using the R&B- at least this way- with similar results.

[Panth]

For me, aloe gel (another humectant) caused massive dryness and splits when I used it during our dry, frozen snowy weather. IMO, you shouldn't use them as leave-ins when the air is dry as they will do the opposite of what you intend them to - i.e. suck moisture from your hair (which is relatively moist compared to winter air). When the air is more humid, it is more moist than your hair and the humectant sucks moisture from the air.

[Theobroma]

I'm feeling slightly alarmed after reading this thread. I discovered the joys of aloe vera gel only this spring and have been happily using it to tame the frizzies -- but it seems that continuing to do so during winter could spell trouble! What are people using instead during the dry-air months? I have a fair bit of shed regrowth going on, and as I'm on the curly side of wurly it's a given that my baby hairs are going to stick out every which way if I don't stick them down with something!

[ktani]

I was surprised to read ingredient lists where glycerin was the second ingredient in a shampoo and more recently a conditioner. To me that is very high.

I think used in a product that is not left in, in a reasonable amount is fine, with an oil to seal it in so that the humectant helps hair stay moist may be ideal. One form or another of a humectant is in many products these days, not just glycerin.

http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/curlchemist-humidity-humectants-and-hair - commas mine
"Examples of Humectants
Diols and Triols
Propylene glycol, 1,2,6 hexanetriol Butylene Glycol, Dipropylene glycol, Hexylene Glycol, Glycerin, Triethylene glycol, Erythritol Capryl glycol, Phytantriol Hexanediol or -triol beeswax
Humectants of biological origin
Panthenol, Sodium PCA, Hyaluronic acid, Inositol Glycogen
Sugars and modified sugars
Sorbitol, Polyglyceryl sorbitol, Glucose, Fructose, Xylitol
Hydrolyzed proteins
Elastin, Collagen, Silk Keratin
Ethers
Isoceteth-x, Isolaureth-x, Laneth-x, Laureth-x, Steareth-x PEG-x (polyethylene glycol)Silicone copolyols"

ETA: http://www.cosmeticscop.com/cosmetic-ingredient-dictionary/definition/638/glycerin.aspx colour mine
"a major drawback of any humectant (including glycerin) when used in pure form is that they can increase water loss by attracting water from the lower layers of skin (dermis) into the surface layers of skin (epidermis) where the water can easily be lost into the environment. That doesn’t help dry skin or any skin type for that matter. For this reason, glycerin and humectants in general are always combined with other ingredients to soften skin. Glycerin combined with other emollients and/or oils is a fundamental cornerstone of most moisturizers. ...
The research shows a combination of ingredients including glycerin, dimethicone, petrolatum, antixoxidants, fatty acids, lecithin, among many others, are excellent for helping skin heal, reduce associated dermatitis, and restore normal barrier function if used on an ongoing basis ..."

The same should apply to hair.

[Sopotito]

What are people using instead during the dry-air months? I have a fair bit of shed regrowth going on, and as I'm on the curly side of wurly it's a given that my baby hairs are going to stick out every which way if I don't stick them down with something!

I have the same question to ask as Theobroma: if the use of humectants is banned (or reduced to a minimum) in dry weather conditions, what should one use instead for dry hair that's lacking moisture? I always thought if my hair is lacking moisture I should use moisturizing products, and if moisturizing products are not ok I can't figure out how to treat the dryness... :confused:

Seems though, that the theory is true. I was happily using a blend of indian herbs as my shampoo (INCI: Fullers Earth, shikakai, reetha, amla, harithake, bibhitake and bhui amla), Aubrey Organics White Camellia as my rinse-out, Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle Rose as my leave-in and a natural gel as my styling product (INCI: peppermint distillate, green tea, xanthan gum, glyserol, natrium benzoate, sugar, essential oils of grapefruit and lavender) in seaside Helsinki, but since I moved to superdry continental air Madrid a month ago I got slit ends in 3 weeks, though I thought I was taking very good care of my hair! :cry:

Yesterday I went to trim the ends (a complete horror story: instead of cutting half an inch as we agreed, the hairdresser took off two inches, half a year's growth!) and now It's back at APL, when two days ago it was around BSL...

I really want to make sure from now on I take the best possble care of my hair so I don't have to trim the ends anymore. So please tell me what should I put in it (or how should I change my routine) to take care of the dryness of my curls and tame the frizzyness if humectants are not ok? I thank you from the bottom of my heart in advance for any advice you culd give me.

[ktani]

There is nothing wrong with having humectants in products that rinse off, the exceptions being ones where a humectant is very high up on the label and probably elsewhere too. Identifying them is the issue.

You can choose ones with less of them in them, and choose those that also contain oils for example like the article pointed out.

What is more important as I see it is what you put on your hair after that.

I would avoid any gels or other styling aids or leave-ins with humectants in any quantity. They stay on the hair.

You can lightly oil damp hair to add moisture (the dampness) and help it lose less moisture (the oil).

ETA: If you use natual herbs to cleanse, you can pre-oil your hair first as is often recommended. It (vegetable oil) is harder for those kinds of cleansers to remove and if offsets the dryness they can produce. The residual oil helps keep moisture in the hair.

Re rinse off products: It depends on what is in them but coating humectants like protein will stay on the hair to some degree and panthenol. I still do not think they are too much of a problem depending on the amounts in the products. A lot of glycerin with little else in a shampoo I would avoid completely. The same applies to a conditioner that is formulated to me, improperly.

[Sopotito]

Thank you very much for your reply, Ktani.

I'm so sorry though, I still don't understand. :shrug:

I hope these questions don't sound too silly... But I really would love to understand, what kind of ingredients I should use or look for in a product instead of humectants? Is there anything else besides oils that could help to combat the dryness in my hair when humectants shoudn't be used? Maybe proteins (which ones would be best)?

And as the washing takes only 15 minutes every 5 days, if I understand correctly, during the remaining time my (very dry) hair should not be in touch with any humectants - so how can 15 minutes of moisturizing every 5 days be enough to treat the severe lack of moisture my hair is experiencing? I'm so sorry but it's just very hard to understand.

And how am I going to combat the dryness and frizzyness in my daily routine on non-wash days? With oils and proteins? Water? I know this sounds silly but I just don't understand...

As for oils, I've found the use of them very difficult. When I use them as a deep conditioning treatment or pre-poo oils get stuck in my hair horribly if I don't mix them with conditioner / honey etc. I I use them alone, oils lead to an awful greasy-hair-look.

Same thing applies with oils when used as leave-ins in my hair. I can mix 1 or 2 drops of camellia oil with the AOHR when I use it as my leave-in (actually I don't see any difference with or without the oil but I still use it sometimes), but if I use oils alone as my leave-in, one or two drops do nothing, but if I put enough to really tame the frizzies (it takes 5 to 6 to even 8 drops), my hair instantly looks horribly greasy and I have to go back to the shower and wash it again for it to look clean again.

I've just thought oils are not for my hair, as a little does nothing, but if I use more it just looks terrible. :(

So should I quit the AOWC and AOHR and my gel? What to try instead? It's very very difficult to find natural haircare stuff here in Madrid, so I'd rather just mix up my own stuff from ingredients that are available at grocery stores. Any advice about what to try would be cvery warmly welcome.

And I apologise for my ignorance, I'm just rying to learn and understand...

[ktani]

Thank you very much for your reply, Ktani.

I'm so sorry though, I still don't understand. :shrug:

I hope these questions don't sound too silly... But I really would love to understand, what kind of ingredients I should use or look for in a product instead of humectants? Is there anything else besides oils that could help to combat the dryness in my hair when humectants shoudn't be used? Maybe proteins (which ones would be best)?

And as the washing takes only 15 minutes every 5 days, if I understand correctly, during the remaining time my (very dry) hair should not be in touch with any humectants - so how can 15 minutes of moisturizing every 5 days be enough to treat the severe lack of moisture my hair is experiencing? I'm so sorry but it's just very hard to understand.

And how am I going to combat the dryness and frizzyness in my daily routine on non-wash days? With oils and proteins? Water? I know this sounds silly but I just don't understand...

As for oils, I've found the use of them very difficult. When I use them as a deep conditioning treatment or pre-poo oils get stuck in my hair horribly if I don't mix them with conditioner / honey etc. I I use them alone, oils lead to an awful greasy-hair-look.

Same thing applies with oils when used as leave-ins in my hair. I can mix 1 or 2 drops of camellia oil with the AOHR when I use it as my leave-in (actually I don't see any difference with or without the oil but I still use it sometimes), but if I use oils alone as my leave-in, one or two drops do nothing, but if I put enough to really tame the frizzies (it takes 5 to 6 to even 8 drops), my hair instantly looks horribly greasy and I have to go back to the shower and wash it again for it to look clean again.

I've just thought oils are not for my hair, as a little does nothing, but if I use more it just looks terrible. :(

So should I quit the AOWC and AOHR and my gel? What to try instead? It's very very difficult to find natural haircare stuff here in Madrid, so I'd rather just mix up my own stuff from ingredients that are available at grocery stores. Any advice about what to try would be cvery warmly welcome.

And I apologise for my ignorance, I'm just rying to learn and understand...

First no question is stupid to me.

I would talk to other women where you live as well as checking out products to see which ones they use for the issues you have with your hair. You can also talk to the stylist about it.

I do not know what you have available to you.

Proteins act as a humectant too so I would avoid those in styling/frizz aids.

There are silicone serums and anti-frizz leave-ins that may make better choices than the oils you have tried in that they are most likely lighter. They function the same way. Again do not use too much.

They do not seal off the hair or cause damage.

By talking to people there who are climatized with products that work in that lack of humidity, you may find better answers for you than I can provide.

[Sopotito]

Thank you very much Ktani.

Your advice about talking to other people living in the same climate is very good - that's why I entered this conversation, as I thought there might be someone here who lives in a similar climate and would be able to give me some advice.

Almost all the people I know here are straight-haired and the few curly girls I know are not into the Curly Girl method nor into natural haircare so they couldn't recommend much for me either. Actually I'm not even looking necessarily for product recomendations, just a list of what ingredients to avoid (which I now have) and what to look for in products is enough.

Regarding ingredients, I'm still wondering if I shouldn't use humectants nor protein nor oils (and won't be using silicones either as my mild natural shampoo probably won't be able to wash them away), what's left to put in after washing?

Are there humectants in the AOHR which I've been using as my leave-in? Are flax seed gel and aloe vera humectants too? What ingredients to look for in gels, if sugar-based stuff should not be used? Does the gel I'm using now have too many humectants?

I'm sorry this list of questions is never-ending. And the more I read about the topic more confused I become, because many articles on low dew point/ dry climate say that one should use extra moisture in hair in these conditions, and other articles say that one should avoid humectants and stop using leave-ins etc.

So last but not least I'd love to know if there are any moisturising ingredients, which are moisturising but are not humectants?

And if there are any curlies living in similar superdry climates, please feel free to share your experiences and recomendations. I think together we can figure this out :)

[ktani]

Thank you very much Ktani.

Your advice about talking to other people living in the same climate is very good - that's why I entered this conversation, as I thought there might be someone here who lives in a similar climate and would be able to give me some advice.

Almost all the people I know here are straight-haired and the few curly girls I know are not into the Curly Girl method nor into natural haircare so they couldn't recommend much for me either. Actually I'm not even looking necessarily for product recomendations, just a list of what ingredients to avoid (which I now have) and what to look for in products is enough.

Regarding ingredients, I'm still wondering if I shouldn't use humectants nor protein nor oils (and won't be using silicones either as my mild natural shampoo probably won't be able to wash them away), what's left to put in after washing?

Are there humectants in the AOHR which I've been using as my leave-in? Are flax seed gel and aloe vera humectants too? What ingredients to look for in gels, if sugar-based stuff should not be used? Does the gel I'm using now have too many humectants?

I'm sorry this list of questions is never-ending. And the more I read about the topic more confused I become, because many articles on low dew point/ dry climate say that one should use extra moisture in hair in these conditions, and other articles say that one should avoid humectants and stop using leave-ins etc.

So last but not least I'd love to know if there are any moisturising ingredients, which are moisturising but are not humectants?

And if there are any curlies living in similar superdry climates, please feel free to share your experiences and recomendations. I think together we can figure this out :)

Please do not worry about asking too many questions. That is what this forum if for in part.

I do not remember all of the short forms, lol but if AHOR contains aloe and honey then yes, they are both humectants and the more of that you put on your hair in that climate is possibly why you are having a problem.

Flax gel is humectant too.

Straight hair gets parched in a dry climate too. The products others use there may also help you.

ETA: Oils are not humectant. They help reduce moisture loss.

Humectants include: glycerin, propylene glycol, sorbitol and some silicone compounds plus urea, algae extract, camellia senisis leaf extract, glucose, sodium PCA, hydrolized soy protein, hydrolized collagen, hydrolized silk and lactic acid. Not a complete list.

[Sopotito]

Thanks a lot for the information and the support, Ktani!

I'm going to start experimenting very carefully with oils from now on. I have a question about using them as a daily styling product (I really need something to tame all the frizz): do they cumulate on the hair, I mean if I use let's say 4 drops of camellia oil each day, is my hair going to look greasy on the second or third day? With my curls I'm used to have to wash my hair only every 4 to even 8 days without it looking at all dirty so I'm afraid I'll have to start washing it more often.

Are there any other natural ingredients except oils that I could use after showering as a leave-in or styling product? My curls look so messy if I don't put gel or flax seed gel or something in them, I cannot imagine not using any leave-in or not styling it... I need to find something.

And last but not least: are there any ingredients that are moisturizing but are not humectants?

And I'll also try asking local people: it just doesn't seem very common to use anything else than shampoo and conditioner to take care of one's hair here, most people have very dry-looking hair (I think they don't care so much about their hair anyway: the haircare sections of the biggest department store chain El Corte Inglés are about 1/10 the size of the haircare product section at Helsinki's biggest department store) and especially natural products are not popular at all (there are no natural haircare brands available at all), so I'm afraid it's going to be very difficult to find recomendations for natural leave-ins or styling products without humectants... But I'll try, at least there's nothing to lose.

And all fellow dry-air victims, please report your haircare secrets <3

[ktani]

Thanks a lot for the information and the support, Ktani!

I'm going to start experimenting very carefully with oils from now on. I have a question about using them as a daily styling product (I really need something to tame all the frizz): do they cumulate on the hair, I mean if I use let's say 4 drops of camellia oil each day, is my hair going to look greasy on the second or third day? With my curls I'm used to have to wash my hair only every 4 to even 8 days without it looking at all dirty so I'm afraid I'll have to start washing it more often.

Are there any other natural ingredients except oils that I could use after showering as a leave-in or styling product? My curls look so messy if I don't put gel or flax seed gel or something in them, I cannot imagine not using any leave-in or not styling it... I need to find something.

And last but not least: are there any ingredients that are moisturizing but are not humectants?

And I'll also try asking local people: it just doesn't seem very common to use anything else than shampoo and conditioner to take care of one's hair here, most people have very dry-looking hair (I think they don't care so much about their hair anyway: the haircare sections of the biggest department store chain El Corte Inglés are about 1/10 the size of the haircare product section at Helsinki's biggest department store) and especially natural products are not popular at all (there are no natural haircare brands available at all), so I'm afraid it's going to be very difficult to find recomendations for natural leave-ins or styling products without humectants... But I'll try, at least there's nothing to lose.

And all fellow dry-air victims, please report your haircare secrets <3

You are very welcome.

You may find that you do not need to use the oil every day. See how your hair reacts. Use one on damp hair, to keep extra moisture in your hair.

Less is more with oil. Will oils accumulate? Oh yes. They can be fairly easily washed out though, even with a mild shampoo, except for drying oils, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=190.

[Inching Along]

I just saw this thread am also curious about how to deal with a dry climate and curly hair! I live on the very high and dry Front Range of the Rocky Mountains. We have a humidifier in our home that has been running for a week or so now, but my curls are not as happy as they were about three weeks ago...it's getting much drier and cooler now that we're in November, and the heater is running much more often, too. I will need to take a good hard look at my products and steer clear of humectants and proteins. I will also read the Live Curly Live Free (http://livecurlylivefree.com) site more carefully, as she addresses humidity and many other factors. Thank you, Ktani, for your insights. I think the shampoo I used today (Aubrey Organics honeysuckle rose) has a lot of protein, and even though I use a leave-in conditioner (Yes to Cucumbers), my canopy is a bit flighty on the sides--but the back is curly and happy. Go figure!

[ktani]

I just saw this thread am also curious about how to deal with a dry climate and curly hair! I live on the very high and dry Front Range of the Rocky Mountains. We have a humidifier in our home that has been running for a week or so now, but my curls are not as happy as they were about three weeks ago...it's getting much drier and cooler now that we're in November, and the heater is running much more often, too. I will need to take a good hard look at my products and steer clear of humectants and proteins. I will also read the Live Curly Live Free (http://livecurlylivefree.com) site more carefully, as she addresses humidity and many other factors. Thank you, Ktani, for your insights. I think the shampoo I used today (Aubrey Organics honeysuckle rose) has a lot of protein, and even though I use a leave-in conditioner (Yes to Cucumbers), my canopy is a bit flighty on the sides--but the back is curly and happy. Go figure!

You are very welcome.

Hydrolized keratin and mineral oil are humectants too, by the way.

ETA: Correction - mineral oil is NOT a humectant.

[Kristin]

There is nothing wrong with having humectants in products that rinse off, the exceptions being ones where a humectant is very high up on the label and probably elsewhere too. Identifying them is the issue.

A lot of glycerin with little else in a shampoo I would avoid completely. The same applies to a conditioner that is formulated to me, improperly.

ktani- Just wondering what your thoughts might be regarding Lush's R&B. I mixed it with my CO conditioner this morning and my results were less than stellar; it was too heavy, even rinsed-out. I did seal it with NB's Triple Moon oil. I haven't experienced any dryness from humectants yet, but Ohio is quite moist today. ;)

R&B Ingredients:

Oatmilk (Avena sativa),
Glycerine,
Organic Avocado Butter (Persea gratissima),
Fair Trade Olive Oil (Olea europaea),
Glycerl Stearate & Peg - 100 Stearate,
Perfume,
Cetearyl Alcohol,
Extra Virgin Coconut Oil (Cocos nucifera),
Cold Pressed Jojoba Oil (Simmondsia chinensis),
Bay Oil (Pimenta racemosa),
Orange Flower Absolute (Citrus Dulcis),
Jasmine Absolute (Jasminum grandiflorum,
Cupuacu Butter (Theobroma Grandiflorum),
Phenoxyethanol,
Benzyl Alcohol,
Candelilla Wax (Euphorbia cerifera),
*Benzyl Salicylate,
*Eugenol,
*Geraniol,
*Isoeugenol,
*Benzyl Benzoate,
*Farnesol,
*Limonene,
*Linalool.

[ktani]

ktani- Just wondering what your thoughts might be regarding Lush's R&B. I mixed it with my CO conditioner this morning and my results were less than stellar; it was too heavy, even rinsed-out. I did seal it with NB's Triple Moon oil. I haven't experienced any dryness from humectants yet, but Ohio is quite moist today. ;)


R&B Ingredients:
Oatmilk (Avena sativa),
Glycerine,
Organic Avocado Butter (Persea gratissima), hydrogenated oil
Fair Trade Olive Oil (Olea europaea),
Glycerl Stearate & Peg - 100 Stearate, waxy and polymeric and waxy
Perfume,
Cetearyl Alcohol, emulsifying wax
Extra Virgin Coconut Oil (Cocos nucifera),
Cold Pressed Jojoba Oil (Simmondsia chinensis), liquid wax
Bay Oil (Pimenta racemosa),
Orange Flower Absolute (Citrus Dulcis), oil
Jasmine Absolute (Jasminum grandiflorum, oil
Cupuacu Butter (Theobroma Grandiflorum), hydrogenated oil
Phenoxyethanol,
Benzyl Alcohol,
Candelilla Wax (Euphorbia cerifera), wax
*Benzyl Salicylate,
*Eugenol,
*Geraniol,
*Isoeugenol,
*Benzyl Benzoate,
*Farnesol,
*Limonene,
*Linalool.

Glycerin is the second ingredient but it is quite heavy with oils and waxy ingredients. I highlighted all. And then you added another oil.

ETA: Heavy indeed. The oils and waxes (and waxy ingredients) will offset the glycerin as a humectant which is there in that amount more as a solvent, IMO. My hair would be lost under all of that.

I broke it down further for you with red. The other oils are more obvious.

You also mixed it your conditioner, adding more wax and waxy ingredients.

Note: I am not sure if Cupuacu Butter is hydrogenated or not. Shea butter is not. Not that it matters with the other ingredients.

[Sopotito]

Thank you Ktani for the extra information about oils and the link!

I'd really prefer not to use the oil every day, but unfortunately I need to wet my curls every morning to give them any sort of shape, so I guess it might not be a good idea not to oil after that... In addition, I really need to put something in to tame the frizz. For my crazy locks, no product at all is a big no-no (or a big, messy pile of straw). ;)

Are there any oils that are particularly recommended?

And nice to have another curly head joining the conversation! I've been using the Aubrey Organics products too (which are so wonderful for curls during the summer), though just the conditioners, but I think I must find something else for the winter as they're so full of humectants and don't really rinse out too well... I also think the Yes To Cucumbers conditioner has humectants - just went today to the local Sephora to check the ingredient list but finally decided not to buy it.

And Kristin, I tried using Lush's R&B a couple of years ago and it was way too heavy for my 3a F/M very dry curls, so no wonder you fee it's a bit on the heavy side for you... I think it's been developed for 4a-c kinky curls, which I guess can often take much more oils than other hair types. If you have the patiency, you could try mixing it with a very, very light product that otherwise is way too light for you, or using it as a pre-shampoo treatment or as an ingredient in deep treatment mixtures?

[ktani]

Thank you Ktani for the extra information about oils and the link!

I'd really prefer not to use the oil every day, but unfortunately I need to wet my curls every morning to give them any sort of shape, so I guess it might not be a good idea not to oil after that... In addition, I really need to put something in to tame the frizz. For my crazy locks, no product at all is a big no-no (or a big, messy pile of straw). ;)

Are there any oils that are particularly recommended?

You are very welcome.

You can still wet your hair with oil on it and not re-oil. Rewetting your hair will not remove oil present.

You can use what is available but avoid drying ones like sunflower, hemp, flax etc. They are harder to remove.

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=190

[Inching Along]

Thank you Ktani for the extra information about oils and the link!

I'd really prefer not to use the oil every day, but unfortunately I need to wet my curls every morning to give them any sort of shape, so I guess it might not be a good idea not to oil after that... In addition, I really need to put something in to tame the frizz. For my crazy locks, no product at all is a big no-no (or a big, messy pile of straw). ;)

Are there any oils that are particularly recommended?

And nice to have another curly head joining the conversation! I've been using the Aubrey Organics products too (which are so wonderful for curls during the summer), though just the conditioners, but I think I must find something else for the winter as they're so full of humectants and don't really rinse out too well... I also think the Yes To Cucumbers conditioner has humectants - just went today to the local Sephora to check the ingredient list but finally decided not to buy it.

And Kristin, I tried using Lush's R&B a couple of years ago and it was way too heavy for my 3a F/M very dry curls, so no wonder you fee it's a bit on the heavy side for you... I think it's been developed for 4a-c kinky curls, which I guess can often take much more oils than other hair types. If you have the patiency, you could try mixing it with a very, very light product that otherwise is way too light for you, or using it as a pre-shampoo treatment or as an ingredient in deep treatment mixtures?

I'm glad to be able to join the conversation! :) I like the Aubrey Organics honeysuckle rose conditioner, but I'm finding the change of weather is making my hair unhappy with it. Maybe it's the protein or the humectants. And I'm having trouble deciphering the label on the Yes to Cucumbers (which I do like)...does it have a lot of humectants? Sigh. I'm not too sure what to do. Much more research, I suppose.

I've been putting a little bit of coconut oil or an olive oil-coconut oil mixture on my canopy, but my hair still seems to have fly-aways and some sort of frizz. I'm hoping it's just the new growth sticking out, or maybe my grays are more wiry than I thought. :o

Someday I may need to get a gel to use to tame my hair during the winter. I would like something very natural, but apparently with not much in the way of humectants or protein.

[Sopotito]

I'm glad to be able to join the conversation! :) I like the Aubrey Organics honeysuckle rose conditioner, but I'm finding the change of weather is making my hair unhappy with it. Maybe it's the protein or the humectants. And I'm having trouble deciphering the label on the Yes to Cucumbers (which I do like)...does it have a lot of humectants? Sigh. I'm not too sure what to do. Much more research, I suppose.

I've been putting a little bit of coconut oil or an olive oil-coconut oil mixture on my canopy, but my hair still seems to have fly-aways and some sort of frizz. I'm hoping it's just the new growth sticking out, or maybe my grays are more wiry than I thought. :o

Someday I may need to get a gel to use to tame my hair during the winter. I would like something very natural, but apparently with not much in the way of humectants or protein.

Inching Along, I am so sorry you're suffering the same winter hair problems! But I hope together we can figure out a way to resolve them!

I've now tried modifying my routine in these ways:
1. instead of washing every 5 to 6 days, I'm washing every 2 days to be able to remove the oil and avoid my hair looking too oily/dirty (it still does, despite the washing)
2. I'm doing a deep treatment before every time I wash my hair with equal amounts of goatsmilk yoghurt, olive oil, honey and conditioner and keep it for an hour beneath a shower cap and a towel
3. I use less rinse-away conditioner (Aubrey Organics White Camellia), keep it in my hair less time and try to rinse it extremely well
4. I've started doing an apple cider vinegar rinse at the end of every shower and rinsing it with very cold water to close the cuticle
5. I've stopped using the Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle Rose conditioner as a leave-in: now I don't use any leave-in conditioner at all, instead I just put about 6 drops camellia oil in my hair when it's still damp
6. I've tried damp bunning for two days now, though having my head wet makes me freeze every time I have to go out and I'm afraid I'll get a cold sooner or later if I keep doing it...
7. I've stopped using the styling products I have been using to control frizz (home-made flax seed gel and the natural gel which INCI can be found earlier in this thread), instead I am trying to combat frizz with camellia oil, which is not taming the frizz too well, but it's making my hair look and feel very greasy if I use enough to have any effect on the frizzies...


My hair may possibly be liking it, but my self confidence is not, as my hair has been looking mostly so oily that it gives the impression I haven't washed it for several weeks... I don't really like the way I look like this, and would just want to stay indoors with my greasy hair. I think if I have to choose between looking good and having healthy hair, I'll finally choose looking good and just forget about the healthy hair, if that equals oiling...

It's just that my hair is very prone to frizzyness, and I must confess I can't stand the frizz, so now that I've stopped using my usual styling products which are packed with humectants I really need to find some new styling products, as it seems oils cannot do the job unless I want to stop appearing in public places :D. I could even consider ordering from the US if there's something humectant-free protein-free and oil-free (or with very little oil to avoid the greasy look) that could be recommended.

Earlier today I was doing some research about possible styling products and found these two, which seem to be more or less natural and should not contain too many humectants nor proteins:
Aveda: Anti-humectant pomade
John Masters Organics: Hair Pomade

If anyone has any comments on these products I'd be really curious to know more. And of course any other cures for taming frizz without humectants, proteins and oils would be most warmly welcomed! :)

[jesis]

I'm glad I read this thread. I guess my previous understanding was that humectants were good in the winter. Sheesh! I've been doing it all wrong all along!

Thank you, LHC!

[x0h_bother]

My hair is humectant phobic in winter. Oil is my best bet but not all the time. Protein sparingly- it is also drying. My hair is a coney camper in the winter :)

[Diamond.Eyes]

In the summer I used to add vegetable glycerin to my spray bottle, but now that the air is dry and crisp from the cold weather, I no longer add it. I just felt like their was more moisture coating my hair, than there was actually in my hair. :shrug: If you live in a place where there is little to no humidity in the air, I would advice not adding any humectants to your hair-care routine.

[ktani]

I do not have a problem with frizz summer or winter. It is very rare for me.

I would in the cases of those that do, read every label ingredient list. Some products contain humectants if that is what is being avoided, advertising otherwise, aside.

To check out an ingredient just type glycerin (for example or glycerol) and humectant - into your search engine.

[MsBubbles]

Thanks, Ktani for taking the trouble to list all those potentially frizz-inducing/drying ingredients. I have dead-straight hair.

This is my first cold-weather season since growing my hair out (2007) where I have had a problem with my hair resembling hay. This is also the year I discovered aloe as a leave-in. :hmm: This is also the first year since growing out highlights that I have been able to successfully ditch silicone conditioners too.

So now I'm having to rethink my whole winter routine!

I guess I will start by emptying my spray bottle and putting only the oils & water in there. I will also not be doing any SMTs until Spring. I will be on the lookout for an alternate moisturizing treatment.

Next thing I have to do is find some sort of favorable cone-free conditioner that works better in Winter.

[ktani]

Thanks, Ktani for taking the trouble to list all those potentially frizz-inducing ingredients.

This is my first cold-weather season since growing my hair out (2007) where I have had a problem with my hair resembling hay. This is also the year I discovered aloe as a leave-in. :hmm: This is also the first year since growing out highlights that I have been able to successfully ditch silicone conditioners too.

So now I'm having to rethink my whole winter routine!

I guess I will start by emptying my spray bottle and putting only the oils & water in there. I will also not be doing any SMTs until Spring. I will be on the lookout for an alternate moisturizing treatment.

Next thing I have to do is find some sort of favorable cone-free conditioner that works better in Winter.

You are very welcome.

I used to get frizzy hair. I do not remember what I used specifically then.

I just use a shampoo with one silicone in it that does not build-up, Sunsilk Lively Blonde and catnip now. I had no frizz with the oil shampoo either, with or without catnip to follow it.

Good luck!

[Theobroma]

This is my first cold-weather season since growing my hair out (2007) where I have had a problem with my hair resembling hay. This is also the year I discovered aloe as a leave-in. :hmm:
[...]
Next thing I have to do is find some sort of favorable cone-free conditioner that works better in Winter.

I think Garnier Triple Nutrition might be the way to go for me. Like you, I started using AVG this year and have been loving its frizz-killing effects... which went up in smoke and actually made my frizz worse once the air turned dry enough.

Today I used Triple Nutrition not only as my second conditioner in my CO-wash routine, but also as a leave-in to replace the AVG. I'm liking the results so far; my hair's dry and there isn't a trace of frizz yet. I hope the trend continues!

[ktani]

Inching Along, I am so sorry you're suffering the same winter hair problems! But I hope together we can figure out a way to resolve them!

I've now tried modifying my routine in these ways:
1. instead of washing every 5 to 6 days, I'm washing every 2 days to be able to remove the oil and avoid my hair looking too oily/dirty (it still does, despite the washing)
2. I'm doing a deep treatment before every time I wash my hair with equal amounts of goatsmilk yoghurt, olive oil, honey and conditioner and keep it for an hour beneath a shower cap and a towel
3. I use less rinse-away conditioner (Aubrey Organics White Camellia), keep it in my hair less time and try to rinse it extremely well
4. I've started doing an apple cider vinegar rinse at the end of every shower and rinsing it with very cold water to close the cuticle
5. I've stopped using the Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle Rose conditioner as a leave-in: now I don't use any leave-in conditioner at all, instead I just put about 6 drops camellia oil in my hair when it's still damp
6. I've tried damp bunning for two days now, though having my head wet makes me freeze every time I have to go out and I'm afraid I'll get a cold sooner or later if I keep doing it...
7. I've stopped using the styling products I have been using to control frizz (home-made flax seed gel and the natural gel which INCI can be found earlier in this thread), instead I am trying to combat frizz with camellia oil, which is not taming the frizz too well, but it's making my hair look and feel very greasy if I use enough to have any effect on the frizzies...


My hair may possibly be liking it, but my self confidence is not, as my hair has been looking mostly so oily that it gives the impression I haven't washed it for several weeks... I don't really like the way I look like this, and would just want to stay indoors with my greasy hair. I think if I have to choose between looking good and having healthy hair, I'll finally choose looking good and just forget about the healthy hair, if that equals oiling...

It's just that my hair is very prone to frizzyness, and I must confess I can't stand the frizz, so now that I've stopped using my usual styling products which are packed with humectants I really need to find some new styling products, as it seems oils cannot do the job unless I want to stop appearing in public places :D. I could even consider ordering from the US if there's something humectant-free protein-free and oil-free (or with very little oil to avoid the greasy look) that could be recommended.

Earlier today I was doing some research about possible styling products and found these two, which seem to be more or less natural and should not contain too many humectants nor proteins:
Aveda: Anti-humectant pomade
John Masters Organics: Hair Pomade

If anyone has any comments on these products I'd be really curious to know more. And of course any other cures for taming frizz without humectants, proteins and oils would be most warmly welcomed! :)

The Aveda Anti-humectant pomade is pretty much just oil and silicone, and can be very heavy.
http://www.makeupalley.com/product/showreview.asp/ItemId=4314/Purefume-Brilliant-Anti-Humectant-Pomade/Aveda/Styling-Products

http://www.amazon.com/Aveda-Brilliant-Anti-Humectant-Pomade-Ounces/dp/B0007CXWRE
"CAPRYLIC/CAPRICTRIGLYCERIDE, ISOPROPYL PALMITATE, C18-38 ACID TRIGLYCERIDE (MIXED PLANT (MELANGE DE PLANTES)), BIO-DIGLYCERYL POLYACYLADIPATE 1 (SOURCE: COCONUT (NOIX DE COCO)), BIS-DIGLYCERYL POLYACYLADIPATE-2 (MIXED PLANT (MELANGE DE PLANTES)), CASTOR OIL (RICINUS COMMUNIS), PHENYL TRIMETHICONE (SILICA (SILICE)), CYCLOMETHICONE, FRAGRANCE (PARFUM), GLYCERYL LAURATE (MIXED PLANT (MELANGE DE PLANTES)), RICE BRAN OIL (ORYZA SATIVA)"

[MsBubbles]

I just use a shampoo with one silicone in it that does not build-up, Sunsilk Lively Blonde

The Sunsilk products used to work well with my hair. I may try them again.


I think Garnier Triple Nutrition might be the way to go for me. !

I will look into that too.

Thanks for the suggestions.

[ktani]

The Sunsilk products used to work well with my hair. I may try them again.

Thanks for the suggestions.

You are very welcome for mine. However the European formulas, of which the one I posted is, are (I will never untangle this grammar, lol) less siliconed and polymer filled.

I only use the above shampoo and I previously used other versions that were the ones that preceded this one, while in my opinion they were perfecting the formula.