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View Full Version : Advice on buns for ultra-thick hair please ?!?! (large pic)



UltraBella
September 6th, 2010, 09:08 PM
Hi Everyone,
I am having a bun issue. I can't seem to do many of them or hold them securely - or without discomfort.
My hair is thick, my ponytail circumference is currently 5.10 inches without my bangs. I am at hip length. Does anyone else have this issue ? Any suggestions ?
I realized while reading a thread by Eezepeeze that although lots of members here have thick hair, some of us just have gobs of hair that make it almost impossible to do some of the buns with. Which ones work best for tons of hair ? What about securing them ?
I really enjoy having so much hair in general, but sometimes when you can't do some of the neat styles everyone else is doing it gets mildly frustrating.....

Here is a pic for reference :
http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac282/beyondbeauty76/IMG_0446.jpg

Thank you for any help !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

TinaDenali
September 6th, 2010, 09:13 PM
I've got nothing constructive to add except for that I love your hair!

It's pretty much my dream hair! :)

spidermom
September 6th, 2010, 09:18 PM
I'm having a major thick and heavy hair hatred day so no suggestions here.

bumblebums
September 6th, 2010, 09:19 PM
I seem to recall that Torrin Paige said she has the same ponytail circumference, in one of her videos. The buns that work for her should work for you. Which buns have you tried?

http://youtube.com/user/torrinpaige

CelinaStarr
September 6th, 2010, 09:19 PM
Pretty hair! Thank you for this thread. I have very thick and curly hair. The only bun I can do is the boring old Cinnamon Bun---just twirling my hair around and securing it. I can do the Figure 8 bun but it doesn't look like one...

I really really like the Lazy Wrap Bun but I just can't get it to stay. I can create one and it looks so nice but it doesn't stay. I'd like some pointers. It's seems like many of the bun instructions are best for those with thinner hair.

Fairlight63
September 6th, 2010, 09:21 PM
Your hair is so pretty! Sorry but I can't help you either, unless you want to give me 1/2 of yours :D
I have the problem that mine is not thick enough :(

kittensoupnrice
September 6th, 2010, 09:25 PM
Hmmm.

You might have luck with the lazy wrap buns, and the nautilus bun. They seem to work nicely for the hair-blessed. ;)

eternallyverdan
September 6th, 2010, 09:28 PM
Well, my hair isn't as thick as yours, but my best advice would be to invest in some good hairtoys, particularly (at least these work for me) hair forks and Amish pins. Updos that are held by elastics and sticks always seem to pull more than those that have their weight evenly distributed.

My suggestions would be cinnamon buns held with Amish pins or possibly Bunhead pins (never used them, don't know if they work for thick hair), Spidermom's bun that stays with a fork-- probably at least 6-6.5 inches of functional prong length with your thickness, and maybe faux crown braids if you're fed up with the weight distribution.

Essentially, what I've found is that the larger the amount of hair in contact with the scalp, the more comfortable the updo. Try looking through the articles for stuff that has several contact points with the scalp to keep the weight from all settling on one part of the head.

Also, I find that it helps to part your hair rather than pulling it straight back, and to make buns lower on the head, near the nape of the neck.

Good luck, and I hope your hair doesn't give you too many headaches!

dreamsofnorns
September 6th, 2010, 09:30 PM
Maybe you could use a lot of hair pins... I usually braid then wrap it in a bun and secure it with the large bobby pins (they are roller pins actually) all the way around... I use 12-25 pins depending on the day and how stubborn my hair is being. My hair is only to my mid back though, so i'm not sure if this will work with your hair since it is much longer (braiding does make it a little shorter though :) )
I hope this helps!

swivelhop
September 6th, 2010, 09:33 PM
Damn thats a ton of hair. What works for me is to always start with a ponytail. No need for a tight elastic but a small hair-colored scrunchy gives the bun a base to anchor to and keeps the weight centered. For cinnamon buns I SQUASH as I turn to keep the bun flatter to the head. Then anchor with huge 3 inch long hairpins (old school hairpins not bobby pins) all around the base. Heavy hair needs the weight distributed on the head. Multistrand cinnamon buns also look amazing on thick hair and distribute the weight well.

UltraBella
September 6th, 2010, 09:37 PM
I supposed a lot of people have the reverse problem as well, I can see how having quite thin hair might make some buns very difficult. There are just so many beautiful buns on this forum and I want to participate ! The only bun I can do is the fully rolled sock bun and it look like it is eating my head it is so comically huge.

Spidermom, of all people, you ALWAYS have good advice. Boo :(

Bumblebums, I have watched so many of Torrin Paige's videos, they are quite amazing ! She can do every style imaginable. However, I would have thought my hair to be thicker than hers.
I can't tell you which buns I have tried because until May of this year I had never even considered wearing my hair in a bun and I am so very bad with all the names of the different buns. I have tried SEVERALl, but I only know the name of one, a Chinese bun. I have watched about 200 YouTube videos though and for a while I was so obsessed with having a successful bun (that I could wear for more than 10 minutes) that I finally had to just walk away and forget about buns for a while because I was getting ticked off. Now I am ready to try again and conquer my bun issue. I am seriously determined !!

Stagecoach
September 6th, 2010, 09:42 PM
How about a braided chinese bun? I have a YouTube tutorial for one and I think it would do the trick of distributing the weight and thickness of your hair into a nice

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n98D0j8Ypfg

Ursula
September 6th, 2010, 09:43 PM
My hair is quite similar to yours, in terms of length and thickness.

What tools do you have to hold up your hair? I find Amish pins to be good (my current favorites are the 3" crinkled Amish pins made by Fischer wire), as well as sticks or forks that are fairly chunky in design, such as Baeries. The oversize bobby pins that Sally's sells as "roller pins" are also pretty good, and easy to find. I find that the large Ficcaire maxima clips won't hold my hair, but I can use a large Ficcaire beak clip (putting it through the bun, not over it) and I can use extra-large Flexi-8 clips in a limited number of styles, such as a log roll.

The first skill to work on is smoothing your hair back and twisting it into a stable coil. Once you have a good coil, it can be arranged on your head in a variety of ways. Establishing a good coil is an important first step. If the hair isn't smoothed back into the coil evenly, you'll find that the weight of your hair will pull in sections. Take the time to comb your hair back carefully, and experiment to see if it works better for you to comb your hair straight back or to comb your hair back from a center part. Whether or not you part your hair changes the weight distribution, and makes a big difference in how comfortable the bun is. I need a center part, but other people here do better combing their hair straight back.

What works will change depending on the length/thickness ratio, and how many times the coil can wrap around itself. A cinnamon roll involves arranging the coil in a spiral on the back of your head. A bee-butt is similar to a cinnamon roll, but you pull the coil snugger so that the latter rounds of the coil are pulled under the first coil - you may need to deliberately arrange the first coil with a bit of extra scalp coil between it and your head to leave room for the latter coils. A figure-8 or infinity bun takes a bee-butt and involves folding the first/top coil away from the base of the bun either to the side, up or down on your head. A heart bun is another way to arrange the coil, a bit hard to describe, but if you do a search on you-tube someone's put up a nice video of how to make it.

Once you know how you're arranging the coil of your hair, there is the issue of how to fasten it.

With sticks or a fork, you want to completely arrange the coil and then use the tools to fasten down the bun, going in through a coil section on one side, pointing the tool towards your head, picking up some scalp hair, moving the tool to run parallel to the back of your head, pushing it through the bun, and making sure it comes out through a section of coil on the other side of the bun.

With hairpins, you want each pin to go in to the coil and then catch scalp hair and run along your scalp. For "U" shaped pins, you want to pinch the legs together as you insert the pin, so that the legs spring apart a bit when you release the pin, and lock into place. With bobby pins or roller pins, you want to stick the pin in without holding the legs apart, just letting it catch however much hair it will catch naturally.

For hairpins, with thick long hair, part of the trick is to be sure to use enough hairpins. You'll occasionally see people here mention how wonderfully Amish pins hold that they can keep a bun up with just one pin. Ignore that, it doesn't apply. A 3" pin just isn't long enough to anchor a bun with very thick long hair. Instead, you want to use enough pins to create a series of stable anchor points in the bun. A pair of pins can also be arranged in an "X" with the legs interlocking for when you want more stability, such as for the first/inner coil of a cinnamon roll.

With pins, it also sometimes helps to add pins as you're arranging the coil, rather than waiting until it is all arranged. For example, in a cinnamon roll bun, I will twist the coil of hair, then start the spiral and do one circle. I then use two pins, in an "X" to anchor the center. Then I continue to arrange the coil, wrapping it around the edge of the flat, anchored inner section. I then use a series of pins around this, each pin going in through the outer coil section and into the inner anchored coil, with the pins running flat against the scalp.

loralie
September 6th, 2010, 09:47 PM
What about getting some really big hair screws? You could probably make your own using heavy gauge wire and wrapping it into shape.

I don't have anywhere near your thickness or length of hair but find that ponies pull really bad after a while, and are uncomfortable. I'd have a sore scalp after a few hours... but using hair screws seems to distribute the tension throughout the bun. It's also in how you wrap it.

Good luck! You and your hair are such an inspiration to us shorties :D

UltraBella
September 6th, 2010, 09:48 PM
Eternallyverdan, you have a really good point about the weight needing to be distributed evenly. Some of the buns really feel heavy, like they are pulling. A lot of buns seem to sit on the very back of the head and it really hurts my head. I never get headaches or have weight issues ( atleast not with my HAIR - heehee ) until I try to put it in a bun. I wear a strange modified bun that I came up with out of desperation on the crown of my head to sleep and I find that to be really comfortable though. I even wear it to work sometimes but I am pretty sure it looks funny. Oh well ;)

sunrain
September 6th, 2010, 10:01 PM
I would suggest asking LadyLongLocks (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/member.php?u=1840) for advice. Her webpage (http://jjjlonghairphotopage.zoomshare.com/0.html) also has a lot of bun tutorials!

UltraBella
September 6th, 2010, 10:01 PM
Ursula, wow, what a response ! Thanks so much. As far as tools to hold my hair, all I have is the average pins and clips you would find in any salon. No giant wooden hair forks in my possession. I don't know where to buy those or what size, etc. But I sure would like to try one. I like the giant one in your photos :) Ficcaire, flexi-8s - I had never even heard of these until I found this forum.

Stagecoach, thaanks for the link, I will watch it once my daughter is in bed.

I appreciate everyone's helpfulness. I feel like a bun failure so far............. Or maybe I am just a bun "virgin" and will get it figured out here shortly ;)

Juneii
September 6th, 2010, 10:02 PM
have you tried spinpins? sometimes my buns can hurt pretty bad with sticks and such after a while. But the Goody Spin Pins hold really well without pulling :)

Heavenly Locks
September 6th, 2010, 10:02 PM
Have you thought about doing multiple buns? Part your hair for a half up and bun that. Then do the bottom half :)

You can bun them in different styles or even wrap the bottom one around the top one?

Also, braiding or twisting the hair compresses it and makes it lie flatter.

Just trying to think outside the box, since I have about half the hair you do. :)

Cleopatra18
September 6th, 2010, 10:23 PM
hey ultrabella,why dont you try this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRV1VzxdiXU)? It's extra easy and worked well for me,and i think it will hold.Just take a little extra time the first time to insert the hairstick where it feels the most comfortable.let us know how it goes!
BTW i dont need to tell you how gorgeous your hair looks,simply stunning as usual.

BranwenWolf
September 6th, 2010, 10:26 PM
I'm pretty much stuck on ponytail/cinnamon bun, and I just use pretty hairsticks. Anything more interesting gives me a headache because of the weight.
After the ponytail I split it into two sections and twist those before bunning. I have a V hemline and between thickness and conditioner a lot of hairs slip out.
Other than that... I really just avoid buns. It's a rare day when I can make one that doesn't pull, and other times I get so frustrated after a dozen tries at a good one.

Roseate
September 6th, 2010, 10:27 PM
I think everyone's covered my suggestions already, but my main lifesavers are base ponytails (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=98), lots of 3" Amish pins (http://plainlydressed.com/veils-accessories.html), and dividing the hair into more than one "rope". (As seen here (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=27288&highlight=vortex) and here (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=174).)

The Amish pins really are good; they slide in very easily, are thin and light yet totally unbendable. Very helpful in wrangling thick hair!

Also, you can do almost any bun at any place on your head. So even though the examples in the tutorials are often at the center back of the head, you can position the bun wherever you want for more comfort. When my hair was longer I found that higher buns, up towards the crown, were often more comfortable because I was carrying the weight of my hair on top of my head instead of having it drag my head back. Also very low buns, at the nape were sometimes ok. Middle of the head was hardest.

You'll learn what works for you with practice, thick hair does have a mind of it's own sometimes!

UltraBella
September 7th, 2010, 12:18 AM
Heavenly Locks, what a great idea ! I honestly had not considered two buns instead of one. Even though I did double sock buns once. It's in my album. It's FUNNY.
I do always twist my hair, but I seldom braid. My hair is heavily layered and braids always look funny with all the different lengths sticking out. But I can't imagine my hair not layered, I don't think I would enjoy it.

Cleopatra18, I have added it to my list ! My hair is freshly washed and drying now, so by morning it should be fairly dry. After I take my daughter to school I am devoting some time to getting to know bun terminology and figuring out how to make some these work for me.

To everyone, I appreciate all your help, support and lovely compliments. :D

Can someone tell me how I find out more about those big wooden hair forks ? Or those super giant clips that look like a beak ? I am CLUELESS !!!! Really want one though !

missjessiecakes
September 7th, 2010, 01:10 AM
Hair forks and such can be found the easiest on etsy.

Click for etsy listings :D (http://www.etsy.com/search_results.php?search_query=Hair+Fork&search_type=handmade&ref=auto)

prosperina
September 7th, 2010, 01:11 AM
I need to make a sock bun to do this because of my layers and taper, but I think you could do it without a sock.

Make a ponytail where you want your bun and separate it into to sections. Coil the first section and make a cinnabun, pin it. Take the other section and braid it and wrap around base of bun. It would be pretty and cut down on the size of the bun.

Edit: I shall be watching this thread with interest. I may (soon! I hope) be in this same boat. Although my hair is slightly less thick.

I like 60th street for good hair forks. Also, ditto to what some said about thicker sticks. Thin ones don't work for some reason.

CelinaStarr
September 7th, 2010, 01:20 AM
Can someone tell me how I find out more about those big wooden hair forks ? Or those super giant clips that look like a beak ? I am CLUELESS !!!! Really want one though !

Are you talking about Ficcares? Like the clip in my siggy? www.ficcare.com

Igor
September 7th, 2010, 02:06 AM
I believe your hair is thicker than mine and I couldn’t make a comfortable cinnamon bun until hip-ish. My only advice would be that someone with as thick hair as you would probably have to go longer for a goal length. Your thickness simply “eats up” the length
:shrug: Time will fix it

Joliebaby
September 7th, 2010, 02:20 AM
You are hair toy deficient :D
You could use two large ficcare maximas (it looks cool too, I have a double set even though my hair really doesn't need two at this length!) and a large sturdy hairfork!!

beez1717
September 7th, 2010, 02:31 AM
You could always try starting with a braid and then wrapping it up nicely with some hair sticks. Although I don't know if this would work seeing as I have never done any buns, I think it might work.

Night_Kitten
September 7th, 2010, 06:09 AM
My hair is nowhere near thick (I wish it was...), but I thought I'll crash in anyway, LOL :)
For me to do a new bun I have to practice many times untill I manage to figure out just what hair-toy is best to use, where to place it and how to do it so that it's comfortable and doesn't pull on any strands, after that I can repeat it mostly successful...
My favorite is the Lazy Wrap bun, it's relatively easy to do and the weight is well-distributed. For ii hair it is possible to do from about mid-back to waist length, so maybe with hip-length thick hair it's also possible...

bumblebums
September 7th, 2010, 07:15 AM
Heavenly Locks, what a great idea ! I honestly had not considered two buns instead of one. Even though I did double sock buns once. It's in my album. It's FUNNY.
I do always twist my hair, but I seldom braid. My hair is heavily layered and braids always look funny with all the different lengths sticking out. But I can't imagine my hair not layered, I don't think I would enjoy it.

Cleopatra18, I have added it to my list ! My hair is freshly washed and drying now, so by morning it should be fairly dry. After I take my daughter to school I am devoting some time to getting to know bun terminology and figuring out how to make some these work for me.

To everyone, I appreciate all your help, support and lovely compliments. :D

Can someone tell me how I find out more about those big wooden hair forks ? Or those super giant clips that look like a beak ? I am CLUELESS !!!! Really want one though !

That reminds me--see here: http://www.io.com/~cortese/hair/styling.html

She has almost knee-length hair, and like Igor said, on thick hair, certain styles don't work until the hair is classic or so. I have ii hair and am already doing things like a braided pinless bun at APL length, but for you, it might not work until much later. :(

Ursula
September 7th, 2010, 08:06 AM
If your hair tools are limited to the inexpensive and what you can probably find locally, I suggest that you go to Sally's Beauty Supply and get some of the large roller pins, and also some of their large U-shape wire pins. The U-shape wire pins are not as good, in my experience, as the stainless-steel Amish pins, but they do work well, and they were my primary updo tool before I discovered LHC.

As far as hairsticks go, for functionality, my favorite are a pair of 6" paddle hairsticks (http://www.kjcraftworks.com/Hairsticks/stick-paddles.shtml) from KJ Craftworks that I bought at a Ren fair. They're quite thick, for hairsticks, the slight spiral helps keep them from sliding out, the paddle end makes them easy to hold without worrying about breaking off bead work and they have a heavy glaze that make them water-resistant. You could do much worse than start your hairtoy experiments with something like this - sturdy sticks that can let you figure out how long you need the functional part of your hairsticks or forks to be, and how far apart you'd need the legs of a fork.

chopandchange
September 7th, 2010, 08:18 AM
My hair is very thick, too.

The only hairstick bun I've learnt so far that will actually stay in place for me personally (without falling out or hurting me, due to the sheer weight dragging on the hairstick) is the Lazy Wrap bun. There are videos on Youtube showing how to do it.

ETA: another thing worth mentioning is that, for some reason, buns work much better for me when done quite high up. Not ridiculously high, as in, on the top of your head, but much higher than at the nape of the neck. I'd love to be able to do a Lazy Wrap at the nape, but I just can't. It wobbles around, feels insecure, and hurts. No idea why.

misstwist
September 7th, 2010, 08:18 AM
And for long u-pins, find some metal double point knitting needles and bend those around something (I use a drawer knob) to make u-pins. You will likely want a size 1 needle.

UltraBella
September 7th, 2010, 08:21 AM
Are you talking about Ficcares? Like the clip in my siggy? www.ficcare.com

Yes ! Must have one, or two, I think these would help very much with my bun issue. They look beautiful and very sturdy. If I get two of them, should I get the larges or should I get two mediums ? I have no idea what I need............

IStand4u
September 7th, 2010, 08:23 AM
And for long u-pins, find some metal double point knitting needles and bend those around something (I use a drawer knob) to make u-pins. You will likely want a size 1 needle.
I definitely agree with this! I use these alot, and if you have a second hand store near you it's really cheap to get them, plus you can decorate them with flowers and such as well! I have thick hair, not as thick as yours but well amish pins, bobby pins, and even sometimes hair sticks just don't hold my hair at all, and the pins will go flying out of my hair. I hope this helped, and hopefully works for you!
(Sorry I didn't read all the replies...)

UltraBella
September 7th, 2010, 08:26 AM
Misstwist, what a great idea ! That would probably work really well :)

misstwist
September 7th, 2010, 08:31 AM
Misstwist, what a great idea ! That would probably work really well :)

Thank you, but not my idea. :D

They are referred to as wavelength (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/search.php?searchid=2284353) pins around here.

TrudieCat
September 7th, 2010, 08:43 AM
You've probably already checked these threads out, but the Ficcare, Grahtoestudio, and Baerreis threads in the Conventional Products section of the boards are fabulous for seeing pictures of different hair accessories that seem to work for thicker hair. Seeing the pictures on these threads might help to give you an idea of what sizes you would need for those accessories. Also, Ketylo makes pretty long sticks, and I think Monkthemonk makes long forks as well. There are threads dedicated to each of those, as well. I stalk a lot of those threads to look at all the pretty pictures and dream about how I will style my hair when my hair is long. :)

I am looking forward to pictures of your hair bun experiments! :D

UltraBella
September 7th, 2010, 09:23 AM
I feel my bank account shriveling................

TrudieCat
September 7th, 2010, 09:30 AM
I feel my bank account shriveling................

Oy, tell me about it! :laugh:

Pixna
September 7th, 2010, 09:31 AM
I have thick hair, not as thick as yours but well amish pins, bobby pins, and even sometimes hair sticks just don't hold my hair at all, and the pins will go flying out of my hair.

I have the same problem -- I didn't realize (until now) that it is because of the thickness of my hair.

The longer my hair gets, the easier buns becomes, but my go-to everyday bun is the Pencil Bun (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0k3dD4qX34). I find that chunky, sturdy hair sticks (such as Timberstone Turnings, among others) can work very well for thick hair. I'm following this thread so I can get some ideas too! :gabigrin:

TiaKitty
September 7th, 2010, 09:36 AM
UltraBella!!! We're nearly hair twins... I have never found any hair toy that I cherrish as much as my Baerreis fork. It's got 4 prongs, and it's massive. It will hold my hair all day and is very, very comfortable.

I can also generally only put my bun up on the crown of my head, for comfort's sake. I don't care if I look silly, or as if my bun is eating my head... my hair, my head, my comfort! Beside the point, you're so beautiful, you could never look less than stunning.

I second or third the idea of the knitting needles for now. You could go right out and get some and try them out lickety-split, without doing budgetary damage. I had some old metal bone pins, from when my mate worked in a medical supply factory, and those are kind of the same thing. They work really well, and I've even made a couple into longer than average screw-pins.

I also like the idea of pinning as you bun, before you've finished the bun... One or two on the second wrap, another on the third, fourth, etc... I haven't tried the Amish pins, but the ones I really like are the Good Days, which are available at Sally's. They hold nicely and aren't overly pin-ish, so they don't really pinch my hair like standard bobby pins.

I hope you find your answer!

lapushka
September 7th, 2010, 09:37 AM
I'm between waist and BSL right now and can still only manage a cinnamon bun and a pencil bun (almost, it's tight). I can't use my hand to wrap the hair, otherwise there'd be no bun at all - I use a finger. My circumference is no way near 5 inches, though I do have thick hair.

Pencil bun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0k3dD4qX34

UltraBella
September 7th, 2010, 09:51 AM
I used to have my hair thinned out every trim, but I have stopped that and as those shorter hairs get longer my circumference is growing. I think I may end up at six inches, I am so close now. Which is why braiding and then bunning is an issue for me. My braid is so thick it makes it much shorter too. It kind of bothers me ! I am at hip length for crying out loud !! My braid is like BSL :(
I want hair toys ! I am going to invest $100 to start off my hair toy collection. What should I get ? What will I get the most use out of ??? Anything I should avoid ?
This is fun. Much better than clothes shopping. I am hoping hair toys are like jewelry...... Jewelry always fits, clothing does not ;)

Pixna
September 7th, 2010, 10:12 AM
UltraBella, sounds like you need to stop by the Hair-Toy Addicts thread (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=47976). We'd be delighted to assist, advise, and enable you!! :laugh:

luluj
September 7th, 2010, 10:27 AM
UltraBella, sounds like you need to stop by the Hair-Toy Addicts thread (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=47976). We'd be delighted to assist, advise, and enable you!! :laugh:

(HINT) Bring your credit card!:eyebrows:

restourceful
September 7th, 2010, 10:30 AM
I'd check the swap board and see if there's anything suitable that you might be able to give a new home for less than retail. Amish pins are cheap, like $3 for a dozen. I'd go for the 3" ones at your thickness. The killer on Amish pins on the websites is shipping which is more than the pins themselves. If you know of someone who lives near an Amish store who could get them and mail them or bring them to you (it's how I got mine) it's much cheaper. I second the knitting needle pins as another inexpensive one to get started with. Are you or your DH crafty? We have a lathe and I make my own sticks from scrap wood. I also bought a handful of knitting needles from a charity sale to cut to the length I like and top with beads and such. Check out the Self Made Hairtoys (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=131) thread for this and more ideas. For your real investments, the big wooden forks on etsy and Ficcares seem to be the way to go for thicker/longer hair than mine. Yours is certainly beautiful!

CelinaStarr
September 7th, 2010, 10:37 AM
Yes ! Must have one, or two, I think these would help very much with my bun issue. They look beautiful and very sturdy. If I get two of them, should I get the larges or should I get two mediums ? I have no idea what I need............

You'll definitely need a large. My hair is so big that sometimes I have a hard time fitting the large over it, lol.

chopandchange
September 7th, 2010, 10:42 AM
Bumblebums, I have watched so many of Torrin Paige's videos, they are quite amazing ! She can do every style imaginable. However, I would have thought my hair to be thicker than hers.


Slighly off topic, but maybe that's because yours is curly, which may make it appear thicker? Texture is not to be confused with thickness! Curls or waves add bulk which make thick hair appear even more thick because it makes it more bushy and voluminous. (I know that when I used to straighten my hair it would suddenly look much flatter and thinner).

6 inches does seem like a lot for a ponytail circumference, though. It would be interesting to try straightening your hair and see if you still got the same measurement! But you do seem to have very thick hair! :) Hope you find a bun that works.

Ursula
September 7th, 2010, 10:50 AM
I am hoping hair toys are like jewelry...... Jewelry always fits, clothing does not ;)

In my experience, it doesn't work that way.

I can't use hairpins smaller than 3", sticks that are too short, forks that are too short or too narrow, Ficcare maxima clips of any size, Ficcare beak clips of any size smaller than large, or Flexi-8s smaller than the extra-large, and those only work for a few styles, not nearly as versatile as for people with thinner hair. I find that most of the hairtoys in places like Claire's are either too small or too delicate, so that they either don't work or break quickly when put to the task of holding up a lot of hair.

I'd suggest starting with a few simple tools. A set of sturdy hairsticks, hairpins and roller pins from Sally's, maybe a sturdy hair fork. Learn what works for you.

If you go to LHC meets, perhaps arrange for people to bring hairtoys to share for experiments, so you can try the more expensive toys (e.g., ficcare) before buying. Or get the more expensive toys of the swap board, as you won't get the full new value back on the swap board if you have to sell because it doesn't work for you, but you can get much of the used cost back.

***

As far as hairpins popping out, I've found that if I use enough hairpins, an if I use them to create multiple anchor points in a bun rather than to try to imitate a hair fork, I have no problems, because even though I have a lot of hair, each hairpin is only having to hold a small amount.

And pinching the legs of hairpins together is absolutely essential - if I just stick them in, they'll push out, but if the legs are pinched (leading to only a small amount of hair caught between the legs) then they hold fine.

Gypsygirl
September 7th, 2010, 10:57 AM
I hardly ever wear my hair up because it is so heavy, but when I do, I use screws. They are the only thing that works for me.

kmoc123
September 7th, 2010, 11:11 AM
I have really thick hair, too...I use claw clips when I put my hair into a bun. I usually just do a cinnabun and use three or four claws on the edges to hold it.

lapushka
September 7th, 2010, 11:18 AM
Oh, definitely get some titanium sticks! They're worth it and they're least likely to break. The Quattro ones are thin, but hey... it's titanium. For thicker ones, I think Ravenslair makes some every now and then.

Loreley
September 7th, 2010, 11:50 AM
I have iii hair too, it's very slippery most of the time so putting it up is not easy. There are 2 buns I wear almost all the time: the cinnamon bun held up with a fork and the hypno bun with one stick. The hypno bun is the most secure bun I've ever tried, it stays up all day long. I've just let my hair down from this bun which I made 13 hours ago. :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFeNYl-OK6Q

UltraBella
September 7th, 2010, 02:26 PM
Chopandchange, I make sure to brush my hair smooth before I measure my circumference so I don't think straightening it would make a difference. I have never sat in a hairdresser's chair that did not say that I have enough hair for three people. I have even had a stylist refuse to cut my hair before because of the overwhelming amount of it. At the time I was really annoyed, but thank goodness she said no. She probably would have butchered it if she was that uncomfortable.

Pixna and Luluj, I am on my way ! As soon as work is over. Darn it, I really am irritated with work today, it is getting in the way of my hair toy desires. I need enabling, I really do. My credit card is ready :)

I love all the responses from everyone ! Great suggestions and advice !

Babyjolie
September 7th, 2010, 02:43 PM
Gahh!! I know how you feel! My hair is about belly button length & 4.5in in diameter. I have to wear it up for school & work, but nothing would stay! It feels like even when I get a good knot in my hair it falls out eventually. But I found a way that works & doesn't hurt.. It also helps if you start with those rubber bands that are made for non-slip pony tails.

I usually get a huge, thick, rubber band. The kind that's woven all around & glued at the end so it doesn't snag your hair. In some places also, you can buy the elastic in one big length & cut them to whatever size you need. Where I grew up, most of the girls have thick hair, so we'd use these for sports, pony tails, etc. I like making them really big so that if I don't want to put my hair in a pony tail, I can use it as a head band.

Anyway, after you find a really good, strong, rubber band, make a pony tail at the nape of your neck. Make it kind of tight, but leave a little slack on the last wrap so that you can still get two fingers under the rubber band. Then keep twisting your hair until it's one big rope & wrap it around the base of your pony tail in the direction it wants to go naturally. Then take the tail ends & put it through that slack in the rubber band. Pull it through once, wrap it around the base again, & pull it through a second time.

Then get another band & just bundle it around the whole thing, starting at the base, but including some of the hair in the bun too. You can also use a claw clip, or bobby pins, but I feel like a second band is the most secure.

That sound seriously death lock it in place. & even if it does loosen up, it won't fall.
One of the big pluses about it too, is that when you take it down after a full day, 12 hours or so, it creates these beautiful, perfect waves down your back.

I bike to culinary school in the morning, cook all day, bike to work at a busy restaurant, work all night, & then bike home. & this hairstyle holds up against the wind, rain, commute/biking, heat of the kitchen, work, anything. & when I take my hair down, it still smells good too, not like food, or outside.

Good luck!

Joliebaby
September 7th, 2010, 02:52 PM
I believe your hair is thicker than mine and I couldn’t make a comfortable cinnamon bun until hip-ish. My only advice would be that someone with as thick hair as you would probably have to go longer for a goal length. Your thickness simply “eats up” the length
:shrug: Time will fix it

Wow, at hip???
At 28" I have a hard time making any buns (and I have some layers too, drat!)
But I thought that at waist I'd surely be able to do lots of buns.. maybe not so. I'm probably going to grow at least to hip anyway ..

jeanniet
September 7th, 2010, 02:53 PM
My hair is thick, but I don't think it's as thick as yours, and I have a really hard time with buns. Most that I should be able to do don't work, so I only have a couple I do regularly that I know will hold well. I should be able to do more buns once I reach goal (waist), but then I don't know if pulling will be an issue.

I think a Ficcare Maxima may work for you--a large. You have to play around with them a bit to figure out what's best, but a Ficcare will hold my hair up comfortably all day. I also agree with Pixna that thicker sticks may be better for you. Currently I'm really loving my Timberstone Turnings Chloe sticks; they're smooth and they hold really well. You can custom order them in any size you want, too.

Fractalsofhair
September 7th, 2010, 04:46 PM
http://www.etsy.com/listing/30581139/pair-of-small-brass-hairpins These pins are really sturdy and 2 can hold my hair in a French twist(actually, they're a little heavy for my short hair. But my hair is very thick. It used to be pretty fine though, and it compresses very easily. I have about a 4-4.5 inch circumference, sometimes up to 5 inches depending on the day. I don't have bangs though.) You might want to try wet bunning, Amish pins, hairforks and other accessories. I'd suggest getting some cheaper hair forks to figure out what size your need, same deal with hairsticks. Or look for a local craftsperson who sells them to try some.

bumblebums
September 7th, 2010, 04:53 PM
Wow, at hip???
At 28" I have a hard time making any buns (and I have some layers too, drat!)
But I thought that at waist I'd surely be able to do lots of buns.. maybe not so. I'm probably going to grow at least to hip anyway ..

Unlike i and ii, iii is an unbounded category for hair thickness... So for some, it might mean a relatively modest 4 inches of circumference, whereas for others, it's almost 6". My impression is that quite a lot of people with super-thick hair don't wear it long precisely because it takes such a long time to get to a point where it's comfortable to put up. On the other hand, many "famous" long-hairs on youtube and on this site have very thick hair, creating the impression that most hairstyles require a lot of thickness and length to work. In truth, it's quite the opposite. I have been repeatedly surprised at how easy and early it is to achieve certain styles at my current APL length (my thickness is a mere 3.5 inches or so). For example, I've managed a crown braid and a few other styles that thick-haired folk report to be very difficult.

So, in short, certain styles look a lot more impressive on thick hair, but they are a lot easier to do on hair of average thickness...

chopandchange
September 7th, 2010, 05:39 PM
because it (i.e. thick hair) takes such a long time to get to a point where it's comfortable to put up.

How true! I am beginning to think I'll need to grow my hair to at least Classic to do some of the styles that I want. Styles that people with shorter (but perhaps thinner) hair than mine are able to do with ease. :confused:

Anje
September 7th, 2010, 07:11 PM
My hair's nowhere near as thick as yours, but have you ever tried an infinity bun?

Arylkin has a nice method of making them here (http://s136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/Arylkin/?action=view&current=infinitybun.flv), which I prefer to the more standard method based on a beebutt bun or to the method Spidermom uses for her untwisted version of it (the bun that stays).

vanity_acefake
September 7th, 2010, 07:37 PM
Ooh your hair is gorgeous. And the colour is amazing. Jealous! :)

Cinnamoon
September 7th, 2010, 07:54 PM
I have the same problem - my hair is even thicker than yours! It's very hard with my shoulder length hair, because none of the buns that ought to work for this length - cinnabun, chinese bun - come anywhere close for me. I find, and found with longer hair as well, that the thing to do is just keep experimenting. Sure, maybe a chinese bun won't stay the way the people in the tutorials say - but what if you, say, start with a half up cinnabun, and do the chinese bun around that? As well as this, I find, and found, that we thick haired people need to use more hairtoys than thinner haired people. For example, when my hair was waist length, I could do a cinnabun - but I needed to use a hair stick, two elastics, and a scrunchie, while most people can do it which just a stick. It held like a rock, though.

Keep trying - you'll find things that work for you. I've found three different updos that work for me at shoulder length, just by constantly searching for new methods.

RachelRain
September 7th, 2010, 07:57 PM
Mine's only 4" thick, but I just snag it at nape and start twisting... if I make a high bun it hurts my neck and gives me wicked headaches.

I also tie knots in my hair (when it's dry, because buns won't work with dry hair for me) - could you maybe do that and then use clips or sticks or something to keep it in place?

UltraBella
September 7th, 2010, 08:46 PM
So, I went to Michael's after work and I got some double point knitting needles and bent them in a U. Now I am going to go try a bun :)

eezepeeze
September 7th, 2010, 10:46 PM
UltraBella,

My pony circumference is 5 inches, too, but you have MUCH longer hair than I do, so no wonder you have trouble holding buns.

I don't know if you've already tried this (probably) but sometimes I have to secure the bun layer by layer, like I make one coil-pin, another coil-pin, another-pin, etc. I have to do that for cinnabuns, french twists, and others. For some reason, I find it easier to hold braided buns. Maybe it's the extra twisting that holds my hair in better.

I know how frustrating it can be to not get styles to work, so good luck!! :-)

UltraBella
September 7th, 2010, 10:55 PM
Okay, so this is what I ended up with..... a very basic bun. I twisted my length and then coiled it. But it is so thick I only got one coil from all my length !?!? :mad:
I secured it with five of my new double pointed knitting needles that I bent into a U and it is clear that these are not going to work for me. I need some HEAVY DUTY U type pins. It feels like this bun would come apart if I moved my head much. But, it's a start, and it is a real bun !
I tried the Hypno Bun and I really wanted it to work, I tried it five times and then gave up. My hair is too fat. I do not have enough length. Grrrr........

Here is a pic of my attempted bun. The U pins are copper so they catch the flash and really shine but you can't actually see them in real life.

http://i908.photobucket.com/albums/ac282/beyondbeauty76/IMG_0491.jpg

eezepeeze
September 7th, 2010, 11:03 PM
Have you tried dividing your hair into 2 sections before bunning? I have a lot more success with styles if I divide in 2, bun one part and secure and then wrap the other around the outside and secure. That's how I did that style (vining rose bun) and got the bun to stay. There's no way it would have stayed as one big braid. I wouldn't have had the length to go around. Also, you might try securing straight into the coil instead of from the outside. Just dig right into that coil with your big knitting needles. Also, since you are in the hairstyling industry you probably know this, but don't just push the pins straight in. Get a little bite of hair by pushing the pin in the wrong way, then turn it and push it in . That may be the best trick I ever learned for getting pins of any size to stay put. If I just push them straight in, they pop right back out and fly across the room. But, if I get a bite-then push, they stay in much better because they have a little resistance. I'll post more tips and tricks as I think of them. :-)

misstwist
September 8th, 2010, 05:40 AM
I meant to link you to the Vortex (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=27288) bun.

Also, the cameo (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=6181&highlight=cameo) bun.

chopandchange
September 8th, 2010, 06:37 AM
I meant to link you to the Vortex (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=27288) bun.

Also, the cameo (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=6181&highlight=cameo) bun.

Oooh! Yeah! I want to see UltraBella's amazing hair in a Vortex bun, too!

UltraBella, here is a link to a video tutorial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSf1vv8oB6g) for the Vortex.

emmebean
September 8th, 2010, 06:59 AM
UltraBella,
Truly beautiful hair. My Emme (9) has hair like yours, tailbone length and we can get about 1 1/2 wraps with a cinnabun maybe 2 if we pull tight. For gymnastics competitions we have a no fail method to make her buns stay, you'll love this...........Get a 5 foot long piece of ribbon, a large plastic needle and sew the bun to your head!
Coach thinks I'm insane, but the bun never moves!!!
That said, super large forks will hold a bun all day, 1 hair stick will hold an infinity bun all day ( that one suprised the heck out of us, even thru 2 hours of vigorous dance class). Oh yes, and spin pins, wonderful things, we need 4 to hold a cinnabun, but they do hold!
Best of luck :)

Ursula
September 8th, 2010, 07:25 AM
Okay, so this is what I ended up with..... a very basic bun. I twisted my length and then coiled it. But it is so thick I only got one coil from all my length !?!? :mad:
I secured it with five of my new double pointed knitting needles that I bent into a U and it is clear that these are not going to work for me. I need some HEAVY DUTY U type pins. It feels like this bun would come apart if I moved my head much. But, it's a start, and it is a real bun !
I tried the Hypno Bun and I really wanted it to work, I tried it five times and then gave up. My hair is too fat. I do not have enough length. Grrrr........

Here is a pic of my attempted bun. The U pins are copper so they catch the flash and really shine but you can't actually see them in real life.


Having the coil only long enough to loop once around itself is something I'd expect at your length and thickness.

The thicker hair is, the more length it takes to do any given style. My hair isn't quite as thick as yours, and I get about the same amount of wrap-around at waist length, and can't really do a figure-8 or infinity until hip length.

***

How did you put the pins in to the bun?

The movement to put pins, sticks or forks in is not simply to stick them in. You want to start with the pin facing your head, as if you're going to stab yourself. Stick the pin all the way through a coil, until it touches your scalp. Then move your hand so that the pin is running parallel to your scalp, holding the coil and catching scalp hair with the tips. Push the pin towards the center of the bun.

You may just need more pins. Ideally, they should be long enough so that the legs interlock in the center of the bun.

If the legs don't interlock, then try this trick. Make the coil, and bring it up and around so you've arranged half of the bun. Use one pin to fasten this down, starting at the center of the bun, and the legs going through the section of coil you've just arranged. Then arrange the rest of the coil, inserting the pins as described above. The ends of the pins arranged on the outside of the bun should be able to interlock with the pin you used to anchor the center.

slz
September 8th, 2010, 08:03 AM
I have a similar circumference, and at your length I was quite a bit bun impaired (euphemism :D ) so I wouldn't know. Now, I mainly do braided buns. At first I couldn't make them stay except using at least 1 pin ( U shaped) every quarter of coil, now I can do a single hairstick chinese-like bun and have it stay quite a long time. Not sure if it's the length gained or me improving my skills. Buns that require inserting the stick after coiling are impossible though, they pull too much, hurt like hell - too much weight on too small a place), and don't stay put.
Oh and about the pain BTW : the weight is going to make it hurt, one time or another, I know I can't escape this. So I try to let my braid down a bit, re-do the bun after a while to get the weigh distributed another way.

bumblebums
September 8th, 2010, 08:21 AM
You could also try making a bun out of 2/3rds of your hair, and braiding the rest to wrap around the base of the bun after it's been pinned into place. I never have enough hair to do those kinds of styles.

misstwist
September 8th, 2010, 11:38 AM
Not sure if it's the length gained or me improving my skills.

Yes, yes, yes! A thousand times yes!

Ahem, excuse my little outburst.

I trimmed back from waist to apl last December to remove the last of my layers. I was stunned at my ability to do things to my hair that I hadn't been able to do when I was previously at apl.

The difference was I'd had at least two more years of experience in playing with my hair than I'd had when I first started wearing it up.

I was beginning to see at waist how much easier my hair was becoming to handle, but I thought that was just the length. While I wasn't undecided on the trim, I was pretty bummed out by the thought that I wouldn't be able to do as much with my hair because it was going to be short again. Imagine my surprise to see otherwise!

I can't emphasize how much difference that experience and knowledge made to my skills.

Xandergrammy
September 8th, 2010, 11:42 AM
It seems that my "bun of choice" (as in- the only one I can do!) is a figure 8. It's most secure when I use a Ficcare to hold it, but also have pretty good luck with using one stick.

pennyroyal
September 8th, 2010, 12:22 PM
No suggestions here but i just wanna say that your hair is breathtaking! So beautiful & long & healthy. :)

SpinDance
September 8th, 2010, 01:41 PM
Your hair is beautiful! I've been watching this thread with interest. My hair isn't nearly as thick as it was when I was younger, but there are still some styles that hurt or that I don't seem to have enough length for. On the other hand, skills sure make a difference. I have found making buns to be similar to making braids. At first I just made a mess, then suddenly my hands would 'get it' and I'd be OK for that one. Different lengths make a difference, for me as little as 1/2 inch can make or break a bun. It'll work, then suddenly it won't, then as I either trim back or get longer it will work again. Very strange.

I'll also second Ursula's advice about how to use hairpins, regardless of size. I've had best luck putting them in to the edge of the coil at an angle away from the center, catching some scalp hair, then turning the pin parallel to my scalp and pushing it in under the bun. Forks and sticks similarly. If it hurts, I didn't do it right.

I wonder if you could do 2 nautilus buns or similar wrap bun, side by side, each turned the opposite way?

UltraBella
September 8th, 2010, 04:13 PM
It seems that my "bun of choice" (as in- the only one I can do!) is a figure 8. It's most secure when I use a Ficcare to hold it, but also have pretty good luck with using one stick.

See, I knew I needed a Ficcare ;)

chopandchange
September 8th, 2010, 04:15 PM
See, I knew I needed a Ficcare ;)

They don't work for everyone. I got one, and it was terribly uncomfortable. I sent it back.

RitaPG
September 8th, 2010, 06:37 PM
I imediately thought of this one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND5dJXnBs2k&feature=related
I think that, with thick long hair, it's not just about the weight distribution, it's about using the right hair toys.
Your hair is awesome:crush:

Speedbump
September 8th, 2010, 08:46 PM
UltraBella my hair is thick, but not that thick! However, I am just almost at classic length, so I get the whole "too much hair for a comfy bun" thing.

I know Igor often uses two large Ficcares to keep her buns held on securely. I can use one, but just barely, at this point. I have been seriously considering getting twin medium maximas clips to see how they work for me.

I have not read the other replies, so forgive if someone else has suggested this: A Chinese bun also might work for you, if the stick was long enough.

HTH!

Speedy

CelinaStarr
September 8th, 2010, 09:09 PM
They don't work for everyone. I got one, and it was terribly uncomfortable. I sent it back.


I use my Fiaccares with a few Goody Spin Pins inserted. That way tension is relieved in all directions and it fits comfortable and doesn't hurt.

That's what I did in my siggy pic below. Ficcares are more like decoration for me.

UltraBella
September 9th, 2010, 08:06 AM
CelinaStarr, that sums up how I am feeling about the Ficcares. I am going to get one, or more :) I hope it holds my hair but if I have to pin it I don't care. They are so very pretty !!!! I just want to wear one !!!!!!!!

chopandchange
September 9th, 2010, 08:09 AM
CelinaStarr, that sums up how I am feeling about the Ficcares. I am going to get one, or more :) I hope it holds my hair but if I have to pin it I don't care. They are so very pretty !!!! I just want to wear one !!!!!!!!

Oh dear. You've been "enabled." ;)