Cone Confusion

[LaurenH]

Hi all :)

I have been cone free for a year now, and am thinking of going back and trying cones again... The main reasons being that my hair has never seemed to like or benefit much from oil; I've tried so many kinds and my hair just never seems to absorb it the way it should (even though I only use a tiny bit, and my hair still looks SO greasy when I use oils :( )

Plus lately my hair has just been really, really dry in looks, feel and texture, even though I'm cone and SLS free, use oils, TONS of conditioner, honey in my conditioner, leave in conditioner, stretch washes, no heat styling, normally wear it up and under a covering, etc. I haven't trimmed in a year so I guess I could probably use a trim, but I'm really trying to avoid that since my hair is finally starting to feel long and I'm loving my length.

Anyone have any suggestions? It's been so long since I've used cones now that I hardly remember what my hair was like with them... I guess my main question is, if I DO decide to go back to cones for a couple of weeks and see if I see improvement, and then I DON'T like it and decide to go back to no cones, am I doing anything bad to my hair, or am I defeating all of the "cone free progress" I've made over the past year? I guess I'm still a bit confused about cones, or maybe I'm just over thinking this :p

Any suggestions or tips??

Thanks! :D

[Arianwen]

Only thing that popped into my head was try using scalp sebum? I think there must be a tutorial on it somewhere - like rub your dry scalp with your fingers then gently draw the fingers through the length of the hair to distribute the sebum?

Also, have you tried CO?

[growingmyhair]

I don't think using conditioner once will make much harm. your hair is straight and oils distribute easily so you need very little oil. and after a year you DEFINITELY need a trim (imho) - just chop 1 cm. don't you have split ends? if your hair has been dry for a short period of time you should think of the factors that contributed to that - what changed? better try to detect the reason and eliminate it than fix the problem with cone conditioners as they only give you immediate effect but are drying in the long run

[lapushka]

Maybe it's time to clarify? I can't keep using sl(e)s free shampoos either, so I make sure to use a regular shampoo once in a while. It helps.

If you're going to use cones from now on, you'd better start using sl(e)s regularly (and do wash the length), because cone conditioners will build up really fast on the hair making it dry and full of tangles.

[Coffeebug]

Why did you stop using cones? If there wasn't a specific hair complaint which made you stop using them, then maybe you might as well give them a go again?

[growingmyhair]

I don't think you need to use sls to clean cones out, I don't and non-sls cleans my hair just as well
Coffeebug, I think cones are just bad for your hair in the long run so you don't actually see the damage, you just read about the long run effects of cones and decide that you don't want to sacrifice your hair to a short length results

[Henrietta]

I've been cone free since May and when I used coney product ONCE a week ago just to use it up my hair became dry and harsh... If your hair needs cones it won't react bad to it but in my case it was like "Hey, I don't need it, don't feed me with cones!"

[Fairlight63]

Does your shampoo & cond. have protein & or alcohol in them?
I am trying to not use shampoo & cond. that has them in them & it has made a big difference in the dryness of my hair. I use a moisturizing shampoo & cond.

[Angeletti]

It sounds like your hair is very similar to mine when it comes to how it reacts to oils and not using cones. My hair is happy when I use cones so I went back to using them about once a week. If your hair feels it's best when you use some cones then do what makes it feel the best.

[Jenn of Pence]

Yeah, I personally don't think cones are "bad." It's all about personal preference, and the results can be so different from one person to the next. Cone-free is okay for me, but I really do prefer using some cones, especially since my hair is just so-so about oils, too. It's a personal preference.

If you do try them, I think that it's not going to be a disaster if you don't like them! If you want them out, just clarify and try something else. I do recommend clarifying first, though. As was mentioned above, you could be getting dry from other products, like protein. I'd try that first, moisturise well, and see if that changes things. If you still aren't pleased, give cones a try; no harm done if that doesn't work, either.

[LaurenH]

Thanks so much for all of the responses and advice, I appreciate it :)
I did clarify the day before yesterday, and my hair does seem a little better. I wonder if it's possible that my cone free leave in causes build up over time since I use so much of it? Maybe I just need to clarify more. My conditioner does contain alcohol, so I think I'll try a new one for awhile, and maybe get a trim and see if I see improvement before I resort to trying cones again.

Thanks! :)

[HintOfMint]

Try clarifying and using a non-protein conditioner. I had a protein overload and even though I had a very non-damaging routine, my hair became really dry.

Garnier Fructis Triple Nutrition is a cone-free, protein-free conditioner. So is one of the Tresemme Naturals, although I haven't tried that one.

[LaurenH]

Does your shampoo & cond. have protein & or alcohol in them?
I am trying to not use shampoo & cond. that has them in them & it has made a big difference in the dryness of my hair. I use a moisturizing shampoo & cond.

What is a good shampoo/conditioner I could try that would be protein, alcohol AND cone free?

[little_cherry]

I agree with clarifying and then doing an SMT straight after. This is what I do when my hair feels like you described.

Edit: Suave conditioners are cone free. I CO with suave. Beware of moisturising shampoos as they contain cones if you're trying to avoid them. I use a coney conditioner once ever 1-2 weeks.

[boomygrrl]

Not all alcohols are a like and not all are drying, some of them are actually conditioning. Cetearyl alcohol comes to mind as a good one. Isopropyl alcohol and Alcohol SD come to mind as bad ones.

I tried cone-free for a long time and had good results, but now that I have incorporated amodimethicone and sometimes cyclomethicone and phenyl trimethicone, my hair actually loves it.
An occasional SLES shampoo (the laureth one is less drying than the lauryl one) will likely not hurt (it doesn't for me) and will get rid of build up...it's a mild sulfate.

Give it a try and see what happens. Then report back your results.
To answer your question, experimenting with cones and sulfates will not ruin any progress you make. If after a few tries you don't like your results, clarify and go back to cone-free.

[clichepithet]

What is a good shampoo/conditioner I could try that would be protein, alcohol AND cone free?

Boo. I was going to say Garnier Triple Nutrition but it has alcohol in it. I stopped reading the list at the second mention (cetearyl was first, , benzyl second and further down). BFWIW, I don't use and/or like *cones and my hair responds to this as it would a coney. While I love it (the condish) I use it occasionally and sparingly, it's fairly rich and makes my hair super slippery and updo evasive.

:shrug: I'd also second (?) clarifying more often and reducing protein. There's some articles in the articles section (! hehe) about cones and diagnosing hair cranky-ness. brb, I'll go find them.

Cone 1 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=151)
Cone 2 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=13)
Damage (excellent) (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=79)
Diagnostic (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=17)
Protein (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=79)

[LaurenH]

Boo. I was going to say Garnier Triple Nutrition but it has alcohol in it.

That's actually what I've been using for several months.

[LaurenH]

UPDATE :)

Ok I clarified my hair (with Suave Clarify) and followed it with a SMT (or my version of one) and my hair does feel MUCH softer now. Yay :D

I'd still like to try a shampoo/conditioner that are protein and alcohol free and see if my hair likes it... I looked and looked today and could NOT find a Shampoo that was cone, alcohol AND protein FREE. Any suggestions on what to try?? :confused:

My current routine is:

- BWC Shampoo (or sometimes Aubry Organics)
- A mixture of Suave Tropical Coconut, Garnier Triple Nutrition, and Giovanni Smooth as Silk conditioners.
- And BWC Leave In.

All are cone free, but either have protein and/or alcohol. :rolleyes:

Thanks so much for all the tips! :)

[clichepithet]

Have you considered shampoo bars and/or soapnuts? I admit to not knowing too much on the topic, but there are many a thread about them. A main one (of bars), here (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=74&highlight=chagrin+valley).

[LaurenH]

Have you considered shampoo bars and/or soapnuts? I admit to not knowing too much on the topic, but there are many a thread about them. A main one (of bars), here (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=74&highlight=chagrin+valley).

Hmm I've never even thought of trying shampoo bars... I just ordered some samples... Thanks! :)

[julliams]

Going cone-free allows you to see what your true texture is like. There is no extra slip or coating on your hair so it's "as is". I did the same as you for about 7 months and went from having no splits that I could see, to having more splits than I was happy with so I figured the cones must give some kind of protection, however small, against splitting for my hair.

So I brought cones back into my routine in a big way (Kerastase) and it took the curl/wave right out of my hair.

Ok, so now I do a kind of half and half thing where I'm using up all my products - sometimes it's cones, sometimes it's not. Every time I get some too much build up it's easy to tell because my hair dries without much of a wave. I can choose to keep it that way if I'm going for a straight look or I can clarify and get my waves back.

I don't think that cones are doing damage to your hair so going back to them won't undo anything you have been doing. You just know how your hair behaves now and you can choose the look you want by having more control over your product use.

As for your dryness,it could simply be the texture of your hair??? Mine is thick, coarse and always mistaken for being dry when actually it just looks like that. Oils do work for me as well as SMT's. If you dry your hair in a braid, does it make it a little softer? I find mine does that.

[lapushka]

UPDATE :)
Ok I clarified my hair (with Suave Clarify) and followed it with a SMT (or my version of one) and my hair does feel MUCH softer now. Yay :D

Yay! :happydance:

Can't really recommend a shampoo or conditioner, but I also use the triple nutrition and like it a lot! It leaves my hair smooth & moisturized without it feeling coated or like it's synthetic (it's what cones do to my hair).


Ok, so now I do a kind of half and half thing where I'm using up all my products - sometimes it's cones, sometimes it's not. Every time I get some too much build up it's easy to tell because my hair dries without much of a wave. I can choose to keep it that way if I'm going for a straight look or I can clarify and get my waves back.

I'm also trying to use up all my products and most of them have cones. I don't think cones cause damage, it's just... with all the variety in products and ingredients, you have to know what to use with what and how or your hair will look terrible, get tangles, feel dry. That's why I don't CWC with cone-conditioners, for example, because it's just asking for trouble (builds up so fast on the hair). It's also why I'm done randomly using whatever with whatever. I've also learned that sl(e)s (when used right) is not the enemy.

[melikai]

As someone else mentioned, not all alcohols in hair and beauty products are drying or "bad" for your hair.

Fatty alcohols, like cetyl and stearyl, help to moisturise and soften your hair, and are the more common ones found in hair products. These are beneficial ingredients; not something to avoid.

Another neutral/beneficial one is cetearyl alcohol, which is naturally derived, and which helps give conditioners a creamy consistency, and helps them to spread more easily through your hair.

Ethanol, commonly used in hairspray, is a drying alcohol. It is not used in most other hair products.

[Kaijah]

Boo. I was going to say Garnier Triple Nutrition but it has alcohol in it. I stopped reading the list at the second mention (cetearyl was first, , benzyl second and further down).

None of the alcohols you listed are "bad" alcohols. In fact, there are NO bad/drying alcohols in GFTN. It only has fatty (moisturizing/protective) alcohols, and it's definitely one of my favorite conditioners. :D

Bad alcohols are the short chain alcohols, generally listed as ethanol, SD alcohol (sometimes followed by # 40), alcohol denat. or denatured alcohol, propanol, propyl alcohol, and isopropyl alcohol.


I'd still like to try a shampoo/conditioner that are protein and alcohol free and see if my hair likes it... I looked and looked today and could NOT find a Shampoo that was cone, alcohol AND protein FREE. Any suggestions on what to try?? :confused:

My current routine is:

- BWC Shampoo (or sometimes Aubry Organics)
- A mixture of Suave Tropical Coconut, Garnier Triple Nutrition, and Giovanni Smooth as Silk conditioners.
- And BWC Leave In.

I don't know much about the BWC shampoo... I seem to remember it having Sodium Olefin Sulfate, which my scalp dislikes so I never experimented with it. The Aubrey shampoos should be fine if you can find one you like, I know they say they're "soap based" but if you check the ingredients on the Aubrey website, they're really glucoside-based cleansers (which are very gentle). I know they have one or two that are protein free.

I also like California Baby shampoos (found in the baby department at Target) for a protein/sulfate/cone free option.

The Suave coconut condish has protein as you know... and so does the Giovanni one. Maybe pick up a bottle of Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle Rose, or GVP Conditioning Balm, to add even more moisture on top of the Garnier. AOHR and the GVPCB are both very moisturizing, so you might have to thin them a bit in the shower if you hair gets weighed down at all.

The Tresemme Naturals line is pretty nice, as well, but they do have one potentially drying alcohol in their conditioners (last ingredient, seems to be acting as a preservative?). I alternate it in occasionally, but I wouldn't use it as your leave in condish.

And of course you could always just use a protein free version of Suave Naturals if you want to stay with something light!

I'm glad to hear you got some softness back from the SMT though. :D

If you do ever choose to go back to 'cones, just remember that ALL SILICONES, including dimethicone, can be removed by a shampoo that uses cocamidopropyl betaine (coco betaine on some labels), so you don't have to start using sulfates again unless you really want to.

I've rambled a lot, and still probably forgotten something important. :hmm: Ah well.