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Dianyla
May 20th, 2008, 06:24 AM
Lovi will be along shortly to populate this thread. I'm just starting it for her. :)

DaveDecker
May 20th, 2008, 06:28 AM
Lovi will be along shortly to populate this thread. I'm just starting it for her. :)

.. :drama:

Hypnotica
May 20th, 2008, 06:42 AM
Lovi will be along shortly to populate this thread. I'm just starting it for her. :)

:beercheer:

*puts on sunglasses*

Loviatar
May 20th, 2008, 06:49 AM
Thank you Dianyla! :flowers:

OK...

I had a lot of in-salon chemical processes done yesterday, and there was a mistake made somewhere along the line. I had a colour stripper done on my indigoed lengths to remove the black so a red colour could be put over the whole head to even it out. However, the colour stripper did not work very well, so they put me in 'foils' with what I now think was some kind of bleach (it was a bowl of foamy pale-blue goo like spray cream in texture, and the first colour stripper was liquid from a bottle.) I was also put under a heat lamp, accidentally I think as it was done by the junior in the technical director's absence.

They knew it was henna, they knew it was indigo powder also.

I won't bore you with the whole story, as this is not a 'my salon is evil' story, but all in all yesterday I had my hair washed with SLS five times, was given 2 chemical colour strips, 2 chemical red dyes, and blow dried 4 times. I normally CO and never blow dry, and I have not had a chemical process since 2006 I think.

My length is possibly irreparably damaged. During the process of the final blow drying, pieces of my hair started to drop off into my lap. Not just broken tiny ends, but inch long pieces. The junior was pulling a brush through my wet hair and using a concentrator nozzle on my length. Steam was coming off my hair. I asked her to stop brushing and concentrating and she rough dried the rest.

While half of my head was still wet, I touched the ends. They had gone stretchy and mushy; the best comparison I could find was like hair that has been treated with Nair or another depilatory cream. I was horrified and very upset. The director was no less horrified and refused to charge me for this appointment or my next one, should I come back to him. He gave me some brazil and shea but butter based intensive conditioner and told me to use it overnight.

I did. I braided my hair and used the butter on the tassel. I had no more breakage during the night. But when I washed my hair this morning (gentle sulphate free shampoo to get the pink dye off my scalp, then VO5 free me Freesia and a little butter as leave in) my ends have returned to that mushy state. I ran my fingers down them to test for resilience and an inch long chunk came away in my hand. The hair shaft the curled up tight like when you run scissors down a ribbon.

I know I will probably have to cut, but it will be such a large number of inches, so I was wondering whether there was anything out there (some product) that might help, or any tips for repairing and babying my remaining hair. I always thought mushy, chewing-gum-ish hair needed more protein, although I am not sure this is correct. I do not, however, want to be putting more and more 'stuff' on my hair... I do want to minimise and repair damage but I don't want to overload my hair with too much product.

BTW I will be going back to the salon every 6 weeks for root touch ups. There is nothing wrong with my crown and upper length area, in fact it is very soft and silky, and the colour is exactly what I wanted. It is just the length and ends that are noticeably damaged.

It is likely that I will self trim today. I am going on a camping holiday on Friday morning and I don't want to have to deal with frazzled hair in a field full of SCA-ers!

:kitten:

Hypnotica
May 20th, 2008, 06:52 AM
I think a protein treatment would help.

LilyMunster
May 20th, 2008, 06:52 AM
:kitten::puppy:
that was quick.
Now back to read.
Glad you got the color you like.
If you cut the damage, what would your final length end up?

Delila
May 20th, 2008, 07:46 AM
I seem to recall that the 'mushy' hair issue has to do with porosity problems.

I'd definitely try a porosity control conditioner as part of your routine.

If it were me, I'd do a deep treatment of moisture, then protein then porosity control.

pgw
May 20th, 2008, 09:02 AM
I seem to recall that the 'mushy' hair issue has to do with porosity problems.


Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing.

Lovi, I really hope you find something that works for you.

Loviatar
May 20th, 2008, 10:31 AM
I went back to the Archives (duh, should have thought of that to begin with) and did a search on 'mushy hair' :lol:

Protein seems to be the way forward. I am currently using a blob of Henna and PLacenta as a leave in, and will do a treatment before I go on holiday.

I have, however, cut my hair. I couldnt stand to see pieces dropping off in my hands as I fingercombed today. I took off two inches and it feels much better. The ends are a lot more even and not feeling as frizzled or as ragged.

It's not great, but it's better - plus I managed to cut out my last growing-out layer with the worst of the damage. Silver lining!

missy60
May 20th, 2008, 11:05 AM
Basically you need a reconstructor and moisture I would use them at every wash until you notice improvement. I would use his product for overnight treatment for sure and as a leave in as you are doing. I also found misting helped alot with the breakage. You have to keep the moisture in because with this degree of damage it will not hold moisture. I would use conditioner and then oil over night when I had this same problem. I didnt use shampoo on my hair during this time because it was just to drying. Maybe after returning from you trip you might consider Aphogee it was the number one thing that helped save my hair. I noticed the most improvement with this product on my breakage. I was sort of scared to use it but with the breakage I figured I might have to cut any way.

I maintained my hair around shoulder length because I had to trim alot because of velcro ends. I basically had them dusted when I went in to get my roots done and it helped alot. It is over a year later and my hair is improved and at APL. I just went through almost 6 months without a trim and I really could of went longer but my ends were getting a little velcro like. I basically want to even the layers up they just dont lay right if they are left to get all straggly.

Basically everything you have already learned here but your hair need protein now also. You just have to be more regular with the deep treatment and conditioning and misting then undamaged hair. I basically did a deep treatment at every wash just switching them around. Some days I would do a deep protein then a quick moisture afterwards. The next wash I would rotate and use a quick reconstructor and a longer moisture. I also did over night treatment in a high ponytail on my ends before a wash. I misted alot during the day when ever I would feel my hair getting the brittle feel back to it.

While on your trip you could apply the conditioner he gave you and damp bun taking the bun down several time to mist or just mist the bun while its still up. Your hair cant retain moisture at this point so it needs it. Well Im speaking of my hair any way it would be so brittle and it would feel better after a mist for a short while. It didnt take long to see improvement in my hair but they were small ones at first. It was worth it to me though because I just dont look good with hair shorter then shoulder length.

I havent checked to see if I could access my old journal but it might help you to check it out.

Islandgrrl
May 20th, 2008, 11:24 AM
Lovi...I'm so sorry this happened to you!

I agree that protein is your friend right now! A number of years ago I had a similar experience with salon color (it was supposed to be highlights) gone wrong (again, no evil salon story - it was a misunderstanding that I won't go into). Left a lot of my hair (which was really short at the time) mushy feeling and really fragile - I had tons of breakage. I used protein and deep moisture treatments to improve it and just got frequent trims until all the damage was gone (my hair was only a few inches long at the time, so it was pretty quick). The protein made a really big difference in the feel of my hair - after a while it quit feeling mushy and quit breaking so badly.

It will get better, but you're going to live with it being weird until it's grown out enough that you're comfortable trimming off the damage.

Good luck to you....I feel your pain!

wintersun99
May 20th, 2008, 11:45 AM
...........

Shermie Girl
May 20th, 2008, 12:43 PM
Girl, I feel you. Or should I say, my hair feels yours. :o Henna removal attempts resulted in mushy, ruined hair for me. I had to chop it to shoulder and it has grown a bit and I need to chop, again. It will be several cuts before all the mushy stuff is gone and I can re-grow my hair.

My hair is mushy and sticky from a few inches from my roots down. I am dealing with gentle washing, protein treatments, cone conditioner, porosity control spray I buy at a local beauty supply and Redken Anti-Snap as leave ins. I can comb my wet hair only with a wide tooth comb and only after using those products. If I finger comb when my hair is damp, it sticks to my fingers and my hair is very stretchy and fragile.

My hair looks halfway decent when dry, especially if blown out smooth and polished with a cone. But I am not fooling myself. It is shot. And the only way to get rid of the mushiness is cutting. Protein treatments and cones are only a bandage as my hair grows and is cut away.

You are not alone. I am in this, with you. Mushies across the pond. :D

jojo
May 20th, 2008, 12:56 PM
Lovi,
I am so sorry this has happened, but i agree protein treatments. Also some SMT's may help.

There was a thread somewhere about somebody who bleached and had a similar problem, can't remember if it was on the old forum or not. Anyway I know they used protein treatments, it may take time but persevere for now, maybe just small regular micro trims.

I dyed my bleached hair black years ago and ended up going for it to be stripped, big mistake my hair felt like straw, i used pantene back then and ok it didn't get it back to how it was but it looked tons better, I think hair which has been dyed is better with cones.

Oh i wish i could remember the person who had this problem, I know it was around the time I joined, its bugging me! I will have a search round the old forum and see if i can find it and post the link for you.

{{{{big hugs}}}} things can only get better, so chin up hun xxx

FrannyG
May 20th, 2008, 01:22 PM
Hi Lovi! I've been there before many moons ago, but I will never forget the experience. I truly feel your pain.

While moisture treatments will prove to be somewhat helpful, you're right--protein is the key. The best success that I had with a commercial product was with K-Pak Reconstructor by Joico. I would use that weekly and keep it covered on my clean, damp hair for a good hour or so. Make sure you use lots of conditioner with lots of slip as well, so that you don't go stretching those hairs inadvertantly while it is wet.

Lastly, I have to be honest and tell you that I still did have to cut a few inches off my hair. After the cut I had no more of those little broken hairs, or the ones you describe as looking like a ribbon curled with scissors.

Try everything you've learned here and give it the college try before trimming any more hair off. While I felt the need to cut off a few inches, that's only my experience and we all have different hair that responds to treatment differently.

Take care of yourself, and remember that hair is very forgiving as it always grows back.

Much love to you. :flowers:

Garnett
May 20th, 2008, 02:00 PM
Lovi, I'm sorry to hear about this. Unfortunately, IME, the only thing you can do is cut those bits that are mushy. I've seen this happen with perms that were left on too long, and over bleached hair. It's good that the salon isn't charging you. If it were me, I'd ask for some reconstructive products for free. The mushy bits can't be helped, but if they are that bad, the rest of your hair probably could benefit from some special treatment. Please keep us updated!

CopperHead
May 20th, 2008, 04:47 PM
I had severe mushy hair after perming and coloring many years ago. My sylist just cut the damaged part off and I never did that combination again. She is the one who told me about just doing roots with dye instead of whole head. It really saved my hair from then on.

Loviatar
May 20th, 2008, 04:49 PM
Thanks guys for your advice. I did cut my hair today, but honestly, I'm not that upset about it. I'm taking the view that it is only hair and I was very determined that I wanted that colour. Well I have the colour and I was prepared to lose some length if I had to. I will just have to look after my hair seriously until the damaged darker parts are cut out.

My plan for the future is to look at Redken products (thanks Shermie - both you and my best friend have suggested their Extreme range) and also use some Henna & Placenta, which has usually given me good results. I also have a 2/3 tube of MOP Extreme Protein, a little of which I used today. My hair used to eat that up when it was chemically dyed previously.

I'm not sure I can get Aphogee over here but I will look into it.

ShermieGirl, could you tell me the name of your Porosity control spray please? I have never heard of such a thing. I am going to google them in a while.

Mushies across the pond, no kidding. We need a little husky-dog smiley. Mush, mush!!! :D

Riot Crrl
May 20th, 2008, 04:53 PM
I agree protein. And always follow protein with moisture.

The stretch test on your sheds can be really helpful in determining the next step. I'm assuming right now they stretch a really long way but don't return to their original length if you let go before they break.

Kirin
May 20th, 2008, 05:02 PM
Oh honey have i been there! Granted its been over a year since i said goodbye to the bleach bottle, I had years and years of hair disasters ending in "mush". Maybe I can be of assistance.

some of this will go against the "natural", but temporarily it will help you out a lot!

Try Softee or Queen Helene cholesterol conditioner, add to it protein filler from Sally's. Do this treatment as often as you can! Every day or every other day is optimal.

Use a leave in with mineral oil. Why? Your hair is at a delicate state, where wind, and room dryness will make it worse, mineral oil, in this instance will offer a more protective barrier. Use another oil first, like coconut, then apply something with mineral oil to seal it in. You'll find a lot of these types of leave ins and creams in the ethnic hair section of stores. Whats better, most of them have protein.

If you "must" shampoo, try hask henna n' placenta shampoo, or labella henna and placenta shampoo..... but only temporarily, over time too much protein can build up!

Always always use some moisture after a protein treatment.

Yes silicone is your friend here (just like the mineral oil). If you shampoo always condition, and, you might want to condition twice!

These are things that have saved my mush hair disasters! HTH

chloeishere
May 20th, 2008, 05:03 PM
Of course, I also think protein is the key!
I'd do mayo treatments (gentler, but also provides moisture) or K-pak or Apoghee, both of which are intensive protein treatments. I haven't tried them myself (I haven't done THAT much damage!), but they are supposed to be great. If you go for one of the hard-hitters, be sure to do an SMT or some other moisturizing treatment afterwards.
Mayo is available everywhere, so far as I know, so if you don't have access to one of the heavy protein treatments (if you have a Sally's type beauty supply store, I guarantee they would have some sort of protein treatment similar), you can do mayo. Just get your hair damp with warm water, towel it a bit, and glop on lots of mayo-- leave it on for an hour or two, under a plastic bag (and a towel, too, warmth helps the mayo to work).
A place like Sally's will also have protein fillers that you are supposed to use before you color-- you could try using one of those too.

Good luck with your hair!

suicides_eve
May 20th, 2008, 05:09 PM
yeah good luck with that There is hardly NO coming back from mush hair- unless you don't mind the straw look. I bleached my hair and it melted off at the roots in spots- it would stay wet for hours if not days. and the frizz was unbearable --6 months of searching i found nothing - products would help but i couldn't stand knowing i had straw hair- i choped it all off and started fresh. Just a suggestion. If you do find something that works i would love to know

protien will help a bit i have tried:
nexxus emergncc its like 13$ and Aphogee treatments ( came so highly recommend) neither with success also mane and tail conitioner has a butt-load of protien in it,K-Pak Reconstructor by Joico
nme them i tried them


i am a reformed bleach addict- i would bleach my hair white to grab color better and make it more intense and bright. I have seen the light and haven't been near bleach (well i had it in my hand a few times) since

Shermie Girl
May 20th, 2008, 09:48 PM
ShermieGirl, could you tell me the name of your Porosity control spray please? I have never heard of such a thing. I am going to google them in a while.

Mushies across the pond, no kidding. We need a little husky-dog smiley. Mush, mush!!! :D

The stuff I have is called Zotos Porosity Equalizer. It is a 235 ml/ 8 oz spray bottle. It is available here in the States at Sally Beauty Supply and costs around $6.00 US. You can go into any beauty supply and ask for a porosity control or equalizer product and they should be able to guide you to a good one. This stuff, sprayed in, then the Anti-Snap on top is a good band-aid for my ravaged hair. :D

kwaniesiam
May 20th, 2008, 10:06 PM
The henna and placenta stuff will really help. I just bleached black dye out of my friend's hair (we tried colorfix, but since she hadn't used a permanent dye, it didn't do much) and her hair is fried but drinks that stuff up like mad. It'll get better, I hope you are at least okay with the color :flowers:

missy60
May 20th, 2008, 10:15 PM
I forgot about the Redkins Extreme those are great products. I also used that and the Deep Fuel those were my first products right after I damaged my hair. I think I liked Cat better though but actually I bought that later after my hair had improved so I really cant judge them. Those product actually are ones that I used all the way up which is rare for me. I usually use a product for a while then move on to something else. I just pass the discarded products off to others in the family. I would just concentrate the treatments on the damaged parts because it is good to let color rest a few days to keep it from fading.

My hair did improve you just cant do one treatment and expect your hair to be better its not going to happen that fast. You just have to be consistant with it. Im not sure if you mist or not but I would be careful with aloe because my damaged hair did not like it at all. I had been using it before I damaged it, but afterwards I couldnt use it at all. It seemed like it just soaked right into my hair and made it a dry mess.

Dvips
May 21st, 2008, 12:58 AM
Thanks guys for your advice. I did cut my hair today, but honestly, I'm not that upset about it. I'm taking the view that it is only hair and I was very determined that I wanted that colour. Well I have the colour and I was prepared to lose some length if I had to. I will just have to look after my hair seriously until the damaged darker parts are cut out.

My plan for the future is to look at Redken products (thanks Shermie - both you and my best friend have suggested their Extreme range) and also use some Henna & Placenta, which has usually given me good results. I also have a 2/3 tube of MOP Extreme Protein, a little of which I used today. My hair used to eat that up when it was chemically dyed previously.

I'm not sure I can get Aphogee over here but I will look into it.

ShermieGirl, could you tell me the name of your Porosity control spray please? I have never heard of such a thing. I am going to google them in a while.

Mushies across the pond, no kidding. We need a little husky-dog smiley. Mush, mush!!! :D

Whew - I'm glad you have it under control and have a plan to help your hair. Hang in there! (You know, we really do need a husky-dog mush smiley :agree: )

Rini
May 21st, 2008, 02:09 AM
Hi Lovi :waving:

Like you, I really wanted the perfect colour and did a very similar thing to my hair last year. It was brutal, but I knew what I was in for and was prepared for the "after shocks".

What helped me, was lots of oiling (coconut proved the best) and putting my hair up ALL the time (damp bunning too). I also cut quite a bit off. It was a bit "fried" for a while, but right now I can honestly say that it's in pretty good condition :) and it is growing too:disco:

I'm happy for you that you have your perfect colour though ;)

Loviatar
May 21st, 2008, 09:47 AM
First update:

Today I shampood with Kiehls amino acid, my most gentle shampoo. Then I put the Henna&P on for 10 minutes, rinsed out and used a coney conditioner, John Frieda Radiant Red. It had cyclopentasiloxane.

My hair is now damp but drying. It's drying faster than it did yesterday and it's also drying much softer and silkier. I can no longer feel the damage. I can see it if I look up close though.

I've decided on the Redken CAT and Anti-snap, and possibly also the Deep Fuel. (Hey, an excuse to buy products! :D )

I am going to scout around for a seriously gentle shampoo though. Would people recommend not using sulfates at all? Even for example the Redken Extreme or Colour Conserve shampoos? And if I am not using sulfates, how the heck do I make sure I don't wind up with coney build-up? I really dont think my hair will stand up to clarifying.

Thanks to everyone who has helped.

Ursula
May 21st, 2008, 10:31 AM
While you're doing all those protein treatments, I figured I'd pop in to remind you to do a lot of moisture treatments, as well. Your hair was almost certainly dried out by all the washing and processing, and a lot of people have noticed that protein is more effective on well-moisturized hair, while it can sometimes cause roughness on dry hair.

Garnett
May 21st, 2008, 10:56 AM
I know you're a 1b, but Jessicurl is pretty friggin gentle, with no SLS etc.

missy60
May 21st, 2008, 11:18 AM
While you're doing all those protein treatments, I figured I'd pop in to remind you to do a lot of moisture treatments, as well. Your hair was almost certainly dried out by all the washing and processing, and a lot of people have noticed that protein is more effective on well-moisturized hair, while it can sometimes cause roughness on dry hair.

Very good point I had the best hair when I did an SMT for washing, for some reason this really cleans my hair even my bangs which I have to use shampoo on if I just do CO. Then followed with a protein treatment and a moisturizing one afterwards. I actually didnt have any problem with cones but the only ones I used were the ones in the Redkens products if they have them. I didnt clarify at all I just used the Redkens extreme shampoo and I didnt have any problem with build up. I think it does have sulfates but its very gentle on damaged hair.

iris
May 21st, 2008, 12:52 PM
I've read somewhere that color-treated hair can restore itself to a point, and that it takes about two weeks for that to happen. I don't remember where I read it but it was a serious study where they took multiple samples and looked at them under a microscope and such. So going from that, you may see some self-repair in a week or two (and should probably be very gentle with your hair in the mean time).

I don't know if the self-repair thing goes for mushy hair though. I had mushy hair on some of my ends after trying to get rid of my henna with plain household peroxide. Most of my hair was fine (in terms of condition - the color was bright fluorescent yellow) but the test parts where I overdid the peroxide in an attempt to see if I could get it to go lighter did turn mushy.

I tried the joyco k-pak reconstructor on the mushy parts, and it helped some but not really enough, so after a couple of weeks I just cut the mushy test bits off. It sort of seemed to me that mushy probably meant beyond salvation. It was a bit scary, too - I didn't know hair could get like that, you know?

I think that if you're doing lots of conditioning treatments now, you may not even have to use shampoo because the conditioners have enough surfactants to clean your hair? I would throw all the general rules about cones and clarifying etc out the window and just go by how your hair feels and responds. This is not a normal hair situation, this is more like a hair crisis situation so you have to play it by ear IMO.

That is a really spectacular color you have now.

Iris

Loviatar
May 21st, 2008, 02:14 PM
Thank you Iris. :flower:

I was hoping not to have to go back to cones, but my hair feels so wonderful after today's Kiehls/Henna+Placenta/Red John Frieda wash that I'm not ruling them out.

I agree that it's a crisis/watch my hair situation. Anything that helps, I'll try, but I don't want to throw a lot of new products on my hair and see if something sticks.

I'll use some cones for now and if I start to feel build-up-ish I'll try and find a gentle clarifier, or dilute my ALS shampoo. I prefer ALS for clarifying as it rinses off easier and feels 'cleaner' than SLS or SLES.

One good thing that has come out of going back to chemicals is I dont think I am going to have to wash every day, any more. With henna and indigo, my hair got oily very quickly, and I didnt feel clean unless I washed every day. Now, washing every day feels like it will be too much. I've been after something to space out my washings for a while, and I think this is it. :)