Walnut to Cover Grays

[mellie]

Has anyone ever had any success using walnut to cover their grays? I have some black walnut hull powder which I'd like to try. I am aware that it causes allergies for some people, so I will do a patch test first. And I have heard that it stains everything it touches, so I would be interested in how best to apply it as well.

[ktani]

mellie

There are also some concerns about toxicity with walnut hull preparations - not the nut.

Walnut dye is prepared from the hulls. The hulls contain juglone.

Juglone - 2005
"Juglone (5-hydroxy-1,4-naphtoquinone) ... natural toxin produced by walnut trees. In this study we show that juglone .... reduces viability of human cells in culture.
Our results .... juglone has multiple effects on cells such as .... DNA damage .... the induction of cell death."
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WXH-4G0HV7X-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=00a6e98bc2ff78ae49f5e69146fa92f8 (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WXH-4G0HV7X-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=00a6e98bc2ff78ae49f5e69146fa92f8)

[mellie]

Wow, that was a scary article! "Induction of cell death" - eek!!

[ktani]

mellie

This is from the pdf full version of that article.

".... we have shown that the natural toxin juglone induces a very rapid induction .... and cell death in human fibroblast.

Since juglone is present in human health .... beauty products, a further understanding of its effects on human cells is warranted."
http://sitemaker.umich.edu/ljungman.lab/files/juglone.pdf

[Nightshade]

You'd be wise to patch test :) I'd say if there are no ill reactions then you could go ahead. As ktani's article said, " a further understanding of its effects on human cells is warranted", so it sounds like there's a good amount of testing yet needed to discern how serious those warnings are.

I did some strand testing with walnut, and found I got a much better stain when it was simmered with amla for awhile. You can check out the results if you're so interested over here (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=48738&postcount=25).

[ktani]

Mellie

Since that same research showed that juglone also caused ”the loss of p53 proteins in cells” - see "In conclusion" Pg 8 (http://sitemaker.umich.edu/ljungman.lab/files/juglone.pdf). p53 protein is “important as it helps to suppress cancer“ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P53).

and walnut hull preparations used frequently have previously been linked to a higher incidence of certain cancers, I would give walnut dye a pass.

It seems to me as if the research is making good progress. As they say in the article, they need to more fully understand how the mechanisms in juglone cause it to do the things shown, through further research.

There are plenty of other plants to try.

I do not think that very small amounts in some cosmetics, carry the same risks as large amounts of the pure dye, used frequently.

[mellie]

Very interesting, thank you both!

[LaurelSpring]

I recently got 100 g of this to try on my grays. Now Im wondering if I should get rid of it. That article sounds very scary.

[BrianaFineHair]

Several years ago I owned a greyhound ex-racer dog. After she suffered for a couple of weeks of bloody diarreah I saw her eating the black walnut hulls from the tree in our back yard. I googled something like, "plants that cause bloodly diarreah in dogs" and black walnuts from the black walnut tree came up. We went to several vet visits and the vet just could not figure out what was going on. $$$$ I simply had a hunch after I saw her eating those black walnuts. She never ate them again, but I did make certain to rake them up and discard them.

Was it FOR SURE those black walnuts? I can not be 100% sure, but I'd bet on it. After seeing pup go through that illness, I'd not mess with black walnuts.

[ktani]

BrianaFinehair

Walnut hulls are known to be toxic to both animals and plants.

That research is very interesting IMO, regarding the effects the juglone they contain, has on human cells.

[Dacia]

I've read a little on the net and it seems that pure juglone is actually less toxic than raw plant extract, as in natural state it associates with another toxins, like plumbagin (in walnut leaf). It was demonstrated in vitro that these two substances inhibit the growing of hair and nails too. Anyway, "caution" is the word for external use. It is not recommended covering the treated zone with a cap or bandage, neither spreading it on large zones of the surface of the body.

Links (french):

http://www.passeportsante.net/fr/Solutions/PlantesSupplements/Fiche.aspx?doc=noyer_feuille_ps
http://www.cbif.gc.ca/pls/pp/ppack.info?p_psn=229&p_type=all&p_sci=comm&p_x=px&p_lang=fr (http://http//www.cbif.gc.ca/pls/pp/ppack.info?p_psn=229&p_type=all&p_sci=comm&p_x=px&p_lang=fr)

[Oskimosa]

I wanted to bump this thread back up, I just saw it linked from the catnip thread.

I did not know walnut shells had a toxic effect. This is really scary to me because my favorite exfoliator, St Ives, has powdered walnut shell and cornmeal in it. Ugh! I was thinking "oooh how nice it seems natural." I haven't bought it in a while because I'm cheap and ran out. I started using sugar instead. Similar results so far. Does anyone else use this exfoliator?? If so, watch out!! I thought this thing was voted best exfoliator in some magazine... maybe Seventeen... I was already using it at the time.

[ktani]

Oskimosa

Your exfoliator probably has much less juglone in it than applying walnut dye in quantity and an exfoliator is not designed to stay on the skin.

Still - if you can find a replacement - as you have - that is safe, IMO, that is better.

[stinastina]

Thanks for bumping this thread. This is very scary but very informative.

[Neen]

ktani - you mentioned that there are plenty of other plants to try, can you think of any that might be effective at blending greys in hair as dark as mellie's (mine is as dark if not darker)? After doing some research I thought walnut hull was my only (plant) option, so reading this thread was a little disspointing.

[ktani]

Neen

From what I have read, walnut hull dye yielded a reddish brown dye that is not all that dark and fairly difficult to dye hair with.

But it is toxic.

Natural brown dyes seem to be elusive.

Eclipta alba can apparently yield a black dye from the boiled leaves or sap, not the oil. And it is considered to be safe.

The safety record looks good too, IMO.

".... results .... support to the traditional use of Eclipta prostrata in the treatment of hyperlipidemia."
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T8D-4J021R9-4&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=55777c7edc075b9af5bb1783b7bb2b5a

".... extract did not show any signs of toxicity ....
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=4711053

http://books.google.ca/books?id=aQh25X9mzjAC&pg=PA84&lpg=PA84&dq=eclipta+alba+toxicity&source=web&ots=tr1-5Mf7ta&sig=-rdgjd9BBlLy3Y4u4aH5N_h3TXQ&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result#PPA80,M1

Common Indian Names for Eclipta alba
"Hindi: Balari, Bhangra, Bhringraj, Bhengra, Mochkand.
Gujerati: Bhangro, Dadhal, Kalobhangro
Canarase: Ajagara, Garagadasoppu, Kadigga-garaga
Marathi: Bhangra, Maka
Sanskrit: Bhringraj, Markara, Pitripriya, Sunilaka, Keshrangana”
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/CropFactSheets/eclipta.html

It looks like Eclipta alba black dye might be permanent. It depends on how dark you want you hair colour to be too.

".... leaves contain a black dye .... indelible stain .... either the sap can be used fresh or the leaves can be boiled .... liquor used ..... capacity of blackening scar-tissue .... when the leaves are used as a wound-dressing .... scar heals a bluish-black .... sap is .... also used in tattooing .... in Nigeria .... and in E Africa .... and India .... has been used in Asia .... as a hair-dye, and .... put into preparations to promote hair-growth"
http://www.aluka.org/action/showMetadata?doi=10.5555/AL.AP.UPWTA.1_921&pgs= (http://www.aluka.org/action/showMetadata?doi=10.5555/AL.AP.UPWTA.1_921&pgs)

[mellie]

What I have been using is henna plus indigo. It blends my grays very well and lasts for a few weeks.

[ktani]

I should have been more clear.

I meant a single source plant for a natural brown dye.

Henna and indigo are natural and safe, excluding allergies and medical reasons to avoid henna.
http://adc.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/85/5/411

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=2509952

[Neen]

Thanks mellie and ktani for your responses. I don't want to go completely black or have any red showing up in the light, perhaps I want the impossible and should just embrace my greys, but I'm getting comments at work as my salon dyed hair grows out :(

[ktani]

Neen

I empathize.

I started a safe temporary natural dye thread last year.

Brown and red proved to be the most difficult from a single plant.

I am still stumped on those 2.

Reds could go orange or not deep enough, brown from 1 plant, elusive.

I had a recipe for black that was complicated and involved 3 sources, 2 plants and iron oxide, but a safe one.

At least grey hair is not toxic.

[Oskimosa]

Hey, there's a new thread on a dye Mehandi is carrying now--Buxux Dioica, AKA Katam. It's supposed to dye hair a cool brown color, and you can mix it with cassia or henna. Maybe that will be a safe alternative?

[mellie]

Yes, I am excited! I have ordered a sample! :-)

[FancyHair]

@ktani: i can not find your old thread could you link it please?

[ktani]

@ktani: i can not find your old thread could you link it please?

Which old thread?

The most current walnut research is at the beginning of this one, here.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=116834&postcount=6

and here
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=118718&postcount=11

[FancyHair]

@ktani: sorry i meant : I started a safe temporary natural dye thread last year.

cause i m very interested in the iron oxide ... cause i was thinking about using mineral pigments for hair dye... but could that work...

[ktani]

@ktani: sorry i meant : I started a safe temporary natural dye thread last year.

cause i m very interested in the iron oxide ... cause i was thinking about using mineral pigments for hair dye... but could that work...

Ah, now I understand. I had started over 5 threads last year, lol.

No worries.

Here it is.
http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=59094

Are you thinking of the yellow ochre from this reipe? I would buy cosmetic grade iron oxide only, and make sure that it is FDA approved. Iron oxides are in my shampoo, and I have seen them listed on a number of hair product labels, including shampoos and conditioners that are colour enhancing.
http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=1084352&postcount=93

An article on hair dye
"Metal oxides, such as titanium dioxide and iron oxide .... often used as pigments as well."
http://www.enotes.com/how-products-encyclopedia/hair-dye

"Read cautions about handling pigments
Read the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for this Product
Read more about ochre"
http://www.naturalpigments.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=430-41B

More
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron(III)_oxide

Cosmetic grade yellow ochre
http://e-y-e-s.com.au/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7&products_id=516&zenid=6e8e801be15b71f3c8915416b1e91534

[FancyHair]

sure only cosmetic grade.. smile.. i m a little bit paranoid for allergic reactions or damaging my body... cause i have enough allergics .. i need no more..

the idea came up cause i see a lot of coloring shampoos or semi hair dyes (i think la riche use them too) where mineral pigments are in... so i think about using some pigments as a color booster.... at this time i try blueberry/coffee for my hair... perhaps a little bit of dark blue pigments can boost the color..but i m not sure how to get the pigments on the hair for stay... has anybody the inci for perhaps la riche directions or manic panic or stargazer?? so that i can look which other stuff they use... (i dont use directions anymore cause they have some stuff in it that i dont want use longer for my head.. )

[FancyHair]

sorry it wasn t any of these semi dyes... i found the inci now myself.. hmm funny for 3 weeks nothing was found..okay.. i will look for color shampoos... i want know the trick to hold the pigments on the hair...

[ktani]

Getting the pigments to stay in the hair can be tricky.

This is a thread on Elumen. It is more or less permanent. The thread is excellent in the details and iris gave a full ingredient listing for all of the products.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=5594

I do not believe that there is a more detailed thread on the boards, if you want to know about a conventional hair colour. Everyone who uses the colour contributed a lot of time and effort to help others with it.

[FancyHair]

thank you so much... i will read it soon...

[ktani]

thank you so much... i will read it soon...

You are most welcome.