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clichepithet
August 4th, 2010, 03:38 PM
I can't do it. I just can't effing do it. The dutch? Forget it. It looks long and flat, even if it's halfway "successful". If a braid can be flacid, my attempts at the dutch are. French? Pfft, whatever. Tangles. Tangles, tangles, tangles. For both! Nothing but tangles. I've even gone so far as to put goopy product in my hair in an attempt to make it more piecey or... whatever. I can't get the fingering. No matter how many YouTube videos I watch and try to copy. Not even if they plainly state where your fingers should be. Basic! THREE STRANDS.

It's like my hair just sticks to my hands and won't go where I want it (and yes, I wash my hands first). Is my hair just too fine? Slippy? Floaty? Am I just stupid!? Wait, don't answer that.

If I weren't in a house with a sleeping baby I would be crying, cursing and kicking the wall. I am that frustrated. Though it could be a passive-aggressive reaction, I digress, nevermind! Argh.

:angry: :evil: :demon:

Please tell me there's other soft n' fines that had a hard time and prevailed over the dutch and/or french.

pineconejg
August 4th, 2010, 03:45 PM
I can do dutch, but not French. My french braids turn to tangles on the sides with a little weaving in the middle, and everything around my ears falls down within an hour. I know how you feel.

Don't kick the wall... not only will you wake the baby, but you'll hurt your foot, and you might even break the wall!

Stephichan
August 4th, 2010, 03:46 PM
I had a hard time with braiding at first. I taught myself by braiding my doll's hair. Then I started doing it on myself, but the first many attempts were always unsuccessful. What really helped was to start doing it on damp/wet hair, because it behaves sooooo much easier when you're not that skilled. Also, twin french braids at first are good, because it can be slightly easier to see what you're doing.

pepperminttea
August 4th, 2010, 03:47 PM
Mine tangles like mad mid-braiding too. :( I can get a passable French, after much practice, but my Dutch braids are still fairly appalling. I find I have to comb again once or twice while I have the half-formed braid in my other hand; talk about arm ache. It's the same with half-ups - my hair sticks to itself almost, tangles horribly.

All I can say is, keep trying. I find it easier when my hair's 'heavier' - ie. nearing wash day. I also heard a really handy tip about learning by doing them as sleep braids - then you sleep on the result, so it doesn't matter if it didn't turn out so well, since you'll just take it out in the morning anyhow. :) I also sit at a table while I braid, purely so I can lean forward and rest my arms a little every few steps.

RachelRain
August 4th, 2010, 03:50 PM
I only recently (like the last few years) got the hang of braiding my own hair. I used to make those dorky little 'friendship' bracelet things for my niece, which is braided yarn, and I could braid doll hair, but not mine.

Eventually it'll click and you'll be able to do it - but in the meantime, I can sympathize, it sucks when all you have to show for your efforts is a head full of snarls. :(

little_cherry
August 4th, 2010, 03:55 PM
Lightly oiling the hair helps me with braiding...the thing that helped me to braid was actual diagrams.

ravenreed
August 4th, 2010, 04:00 PM
I have to brush my hair every couple of passes, otherwise the ends are a lumpy mass of tangles that refuse to let go of each other. So, it's braid, braid, braid, stop to brush. I keep all three strands in one hand, and brush the bottom half or so very gently.

MsBubbles
August 4th, 2010, 04:04 PM
Tangles. Tangles. Tangles. Yes. Me too. I have taken a rest for now from attempting to French braid my own hair because I have decided that the bathroom floor full of pulled-out hairs is not worth it. I don't know how many innocent bathroom objects I have launched and/or snapped trying to execute a french braid of any kind. You are not alone. I want to punch my fist through my computer screen. My hair is fine, knotty, slippery yet still manages to stick to itself as well as everything else. Separate sections are a myth.

On a recent day off from work, I was able to french braid one side of my hair but could not get the left side at all. It took me THREE hours and even then it looked like complete crap. I was drenched in sweat.

I have discovered though, that I can get my hair to stay, and get it to remain in the initially-divided three sections when it's absolutely filthy greasy. Other than that, forget about it.

Honestly I got so violently pissed about my own French braiding incompetence lately. Then I thought about creating a 'bad hair style' website, where we could upload our own hair failures just for a laugh.

Anje
August 4th, 2010, 04:08 PM
Have you tried doing either when your hair is wet? Or heavily oiled? Both might make it easier for you.

Also (and I know this is a totally random question), is there a chance you applied a zinc oxide-based sunscreen the day that you braided? ZnO makes my hands stick to my hair, and it's hard to get the texture off my hands.

lizzyjo
August 4th, 2010, 04:11 PM
Stop, take a deep breath, and let your arms rest. The more frustrated and tired you get, the worse the results will be.

Ditto this:
I also heard a really handy tip about learning by doing them as sleep braids - then you sleep on the result, so it doesn't matter if it didn't turn out so well, since you'll just take it out in the morning anyhow.

I find my hair is easier to manage when it's a little bit oily as it is a day after I wash it. If it's too wet or oily, the hairs don't slide past each other very well. If it's too clean, the hairs are too slippery. We have similar hair types so this might be the same for you.

I find it crucial to visualize what the three strands are doing as if I were standing behind my own back. I need to know which strand I'm moving next, where it's going, and whether it's going under or over. Visualizing your braid is important.

What also is important is to practice. I know that no one wants to hear that, but you really must practice in order to improve...and you WILL improve!

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=2259&pictureid=27679

Lilacs
August 4th, 2010, 04:13 PM
I'm a terrible braider! I have discovered though that if I close my eyes and braid only by feeling, then it turns out soooo much better (idk, maybe I'm just a weirdo...) :)

paperwhite
August 4th, 2010, 04:16 PM
Oh no, you are by no means alone! I can, after many years of attempts, create a barely passable French braid. A Dutch is absolutely out of the question. It's just not going to happen. Not by my own hands, anyway! Sorry you're so frustrated over this :( Take a breather, step away from the idea of braiding anything for a little while, and then come back to it with a clear head. I'm sure you are capable of doing this, even if your hair doesn't want to cooperate (and I suspect that's what the problem is). :flower:

Jessica Trapp
August 4th, 2010, 04:33 PM
Sorry you are having trouble. :flower: Take a breath and let your frustration ease before trying it again. I braid by feel rather than looking in a mirror.

Hugs,
jes

VintageBrooklyn
August 4th, 2010, 04:37 PM
Glad I am not alone, I can't do anything braidy to my hair, I just put it down to being too uncoordinated! I guess it just takes practise though, like anything, but I do wish that one day I could french braid, it looks so beautiful and I just can't seem to get the hang of it, no matter how many diagrams/tutorials I see!

yellowchariot
August 4th, 2010, 04:47 PM
[quote=lizzyjo;1199150]Stop, take a deep breath, and let your arms rest. The more frustrated and tired you get, the worse the results will be.

^ I also agree with lizzyjo and pepperminttea!
It takes patience and practice. Just don't get frustrated! It's very hard not to.

Try taking big sections of hair, and making about 4 crossed over sections. That might keep your tangles down, while you are getting the hang of it. I hope this helps!

FTA: Here is a new tutorial on youtube, that I just found last night and it may be very helpful: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCaSrsLCIMk

Chiara
August 4th, 2010, 05:20 PM
I braid by feel rather than looking in a mirror.

Yes, I was going to say that if I start thinking about how to braid then I can't do it. I just have to let my hands kind of take the lead. Same as you can't ride a bicycle consciously.

I remember it took quite a bit of practice to learn how to braid, and then suddenly I could do it. I just practiced with a three-strand braid, plenty of time to get to more fancy varieties like french and dutch braiding. Braiding on yourself and braiding on others is a bit different, but it all helps. Also, it was a bit easier if I put my hair in a ponytail (gasp!) first, as that stopped the bits at the nape of my neck from making an escape attempt and slipping out. Oh, and the tangling at the end thing. I used to just stop the braid there and comb out the tail. When I got better, then I'd attempt to de-tangle and continue braiding, which sometimes worked and sometimes didn't.

italianamama
August 4th, 2010, 05:22 PM
I practice all my braiding on my daughter's hair. She's got TB length thick, fine hair. I have to spray it with water to get it to 'stick' but that's a nifty trick and it WORKS. Also, braids on freshly washed hair dont stick very well. The 'dirtier' the hair the better (Goes for updos too. I haven't washed my hair in a week, and I also havent taken down my bun for two days. Just oiled the frizzes back and gone on my merry way :D ) Maybe you have a friend you can practice your braids on? Don't give up yet- it takes a certain knack and it CAN be learned.

spidermom
August 4th, 2010, 05:28 PM
When I was learning to french-braid (or dutch-braid), I found that instructions telling me which finger to use at what stage were a nightmare. I had to let my own fingers work out where they were going to be and what they were going to do. I concentrated on where I was in the process and what had to happen next (as in "add more hair to the right hand strand. Cross right hand strand OVER the center strand. Tuck right hand strand and middle strand into right hand. Move to the left hand strand") I practiced on someone else first, and it was hard, then one day all of a sudden the whole process just fell into place. It was a little harder to do it on myself, but easier to do braids down the side (2 braids) rather than 1 braid down the back.

I still have bad days when I can't get a decent braid to save my life. I don't know why.

My best advice would be to practice on somebody else or maybe a long-haired doll first.

clichepithet
August 4th, 2010, 08:18 PM
I knew I could count on you guys, not just for sympathy but for some sound advice and invaluable input as well. :D Course, the sympathy was the best part... *pout, whine*... ;)

But man, was I ever mad at some hair.

In light of it all... I will practice french braiding on DD7's (WL, 1b, M, ii) hair and my own for bed-time braids only. I will also attempt to take bigger sections for now and wait till my hair is dirtier or still damp for more aggressive attempts. I'm an oil addict, so no worries there.

There's also making it more simple, ie less strands... I did a passable french rope on myself, which I'm going to go post on the current Style of the Month thread. Went through the French SotM too, for more input. Didn't know if I should ask here or there, but... it seems like no matter how high I begin the braid on top of my head, at the finish the beginning has fallen (?) down to more the middle of the back of my head. What gives?

heynormy
August 5th, 2010, 02:09 PM
practice, practice, practice!!! I know you might not want to hear that, but I had the same issues with braiding when I first started! My fingers would cramp up because I was not used to the motions of grabbing multiple strands of hair at the same time! I don't have the same hair type as you, but the frustration is all the same! As some of the other members have suggested, perhaps a light oiling will give your hair some slip so it won't tangle as much! Good luck to you! :)

LouLaLa
August 5th, 2010, 02:41 PM
braids can be hard, plus theyre real arm achers! I have always been able to french braid as I was asked to do it in the playground for everyone, but i have never done dutch. So I could get an idea of your pain I just read an article on dutch to try it out. While the instructions were good it was hard to "set straight in my head".

My advice would be really practice your french as the dutch is actually just reversing it, just pretend your braiding someone elses hair as if you were infront of them, rather than stood behind doing a french so itd look "inside out" (that may make no sense but hey ho heress hoping!)

I discovered I had a matted mess when I followed the video slowly but when I just went, oh its french in reverse and trusted my fingers to do the work for me it was ok, I was just over thinking. Anyway you can always just let it out if it goes wrong.

It is pretty hard so dont feel bad you could always do a sock bun or a hair stick piece till youve mastered the braid. Plus Jessica Trapp is right (In my opinion) to say that feeling rather than looking in a mirror is good as you're less distracted.

Id say learn french braid till you have it off to an art and youll get dutch easier, treat each braid as if you need to achive a certain % to pass to mastering another braid. Plus dont over think it just try let you hands go quick rather than thinking "over-under" etc. We all have days when we go "argh" so dont fret (had one on Saturday!), youll get there :)

If nothing else thankyou for your thread! I gave dutch a go and while its not 100% Its enough to understand the principal- so just try and remember its fun and people here are always willing to help!

ravenreed
August 5th, 2010, 02:57 PM
Really the only difference between French Braiding and Dutch Braiding is the litany I repeat as I am doing it. It's "Over, over, over," for French and "Under, under, under," for Dutch.

LouLaLa
August 5th, 2010, 03:02 PM
Really the only difference between French Braiding and Dutch Braiding is the litany I repeat as I am doing it. It's "Over, over, over," for French and "Under, under, under," for Dutch.

Yeah! This is what I said in a much more convoluted manner :p

Just pretend you're putting your hands into "reverse gear"

SurprisingWoman
August 5th, 2010, 03:10 PM
I can't braid to save my farking life, on myself. I can braid other people's hair.

I have heard/felt so many hairs snap that it just isn't worth it to me. When I ride my bike I put my hair in a low pony and then bands about an inch apart so my helmet will fit.

My advice, try to learn before your hair gets really long. I wish I had.

ghost
August 5th, 2010, 03:20 PM
I had a really hard time learning to do things more elaborate than a 3 strand braid at first. Braiding your own hair behind your head is hard enough, but when it's longer than about shoulder length and has a texture that can be difficult to deal with (very fine, curly, etc) it can make you crazy.
My own hair is thick and wavy, and it tangles like nobody's business. I can't work with my wet hair, because a lot of it is pretty damaged and I don't want to do even more damage to it. I oil my hair lightly before beginning a braid, and in between the actual act of braiding, I have to kind of smooth out the individual strands of hair with my palms so they don't tangle.
If your hair is too slippery, you might want to try braiding after you wash your hair and let it air dry to where it's almost dry (so it will be more voluminous than dry, combed hair) but still damp enough to get a good grip on. If the braid is flat on top, try making the braid a little looser, or tugging up on the braided part with your fingers to give it a little more volume.

ElusiveMuse
August 5th, 2010, 03:40 PM
I can't braid so I never try. But it's okay because I don't like the way it makes my ends look.

clichepithet
August 5th, 2010, 03:59 PM
(snip) Also, twin french braids at first are good, because it can be slightly easier to see what you're doing.


Thank you. I don't look in a mirror while I braid but for some reason I seem to be able to do a double much better than a single.


(snip) I also sit at a table while I braid, purely so I can lean forward and rest my arms a little every few steps.

Seriously, why didn't I think of this? Clever. :flowers:


Tangles. Tangles. Tangles. Yes. Me too. I have taken a rest for now from attempting to French braid my own hair because I have decided that the bathroom floor full of pulled-out hairs is not worth it. I don't know how many innocent bathroom objects I have launched and/or snapped trying to execute a french braid of any kind. You are not alone. I want to punch my fist through my computer screen. My hair is fine, knotty, slippery yet still manages to stick to itself as well as everything else. Separate sections are a myth.

On a recent day off from work, I was able to french braid one side of my hair but could not get the left side at all. It took me THREE hours and even then it looked like complete crap. I was drenched in sweat.

I have discovered though, that I can get my hair to stay, and get it to remain in the initially-divided three sections when it's absolutely filthy greasy. Other than that, forget about it.

Honestly I got so violently pissed about my own French braiding incompetence lately. Then I thought about creating a 'bad hair style' website, where we could upload our own hair failures just for a laugh.

YES. Yes, yes, yes. You said it better than I ever could have. This is it exactly.


(snip)

Also (and I know this is a totally random question), is there a chance you applied a zinc oxide-based sunscreen the day that you braided? ZnO makes my hands stick to my hair, and it's hard to get the texture off my hands.

At first I disregarded this theory (no offense). While I did use sunscreen heavily the day before, I do not always, while my trouble with the French is always the same. It wasn't until today, while I was changing yet another wet nappy that I realized I use a ZnO based diaper cream multiple times every day. You may have something here...

And spidermom, I've been using your "this one, that one" method for months now for any and all braids I do. I forget what thread it was where I "saw" you "say" it... :D

Sorry for not replying to everyone, it makes me feel kinda bad, but really, how long would this post be?! But the best part is, since the universe will let me continue because I threw my little whiney fit about it...

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=4563&pictureid=78743

:o

A single is still so far out of the question. But this is a good start.

Uh... :cheese:?

Kome
August 5th, 2010, 04:04 PM
My hair was always tangly when I was younger. When my mother did french braids I would get my hair wet for her with the brush and brush water through my hair. If it's completely wet, it's too slick. Dry, too tangly. I have to have my hair damp with water and it works just fine!

ravenreed
August 5th, 2010, 04:05 PM
It looks awesome! I can do a very nice single, but I have yet to master a decent looking double.



Thank you. I don't look in a mirror while I braid but for some reason I seem to be able to do a double much better than a single.



Seriously, why didn't I think of this? Clever. :flowers:



YES. Yes, yes, yes. You said it better than I ever could have. This is it exactly.



At first I disregarded this theory (no offense). While I did use sunscreen heavily the day before, I do not always, while my trouble with the French is always the same. It wasn't until today, while I was changing yet another wet nappy that I realized I use a ZnO based diaper cream multiple times every day. You may have something here...

And spidermom, I've been using your "this one, that one" method for months now for any and all braids I do. I forget what thread it was where I "saw" you "say" it... :D

Sorry for not replying to everyone, it makes me feel kinda bad, but really, how long would this post be?! But the best part is, since the universe will let me continue because I threw my little whiney fit about it...

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=4563&pictureid=78743

:o

A single is still so far out of the question. But this is a good start.

Uh... :cheese:?

ElusiveMuse
August 5th, 2010, 04:12 PM
Wow clichepithet, your hair is so shiny!

MsBubbles
August 5th, 2010, 04:57 PM
I just thought of another useless tip for you as I was attempting a French braid this morning. It's a throwback to an effective ADHD method:

OHIO: or - 'Only Handle It Once'. It's a good way for ADHD people to deal with paperwork - you don't put it down until you've either filed it or thrown it away. Once you put it back down on the cluttered countertop, you'll never go back to it.

Anyway...for my thin, tangly hair, however I 'pick up' each section, I keep it in those fingers/hand until I've crossed it over another section. OHIO! No juggling around trying to get that section in to the correct fingers. Once I've attempted to juggle that section around, the whole thing jumped out of the braid and I have to start over, or it got horribly knotted around my fingers.

yellowchariot
August 5th, 2010, 05:11 PM
clichepithet, those are really great twin braids! I'll have to try them on myself one day, just to see if I can do two lol. It may be awkward, where I am used to doing only 1.

christine1989
August 5th, 2010, 05:12 PM
You're not alone! I'm in the exact same boat as you. I'm hoping that it will get eaiser when my hair gets longer but I definatly think that texture plays a big role too.

Ravenwaves 88
August 5th, 2010, 07:18 PM
I can't braid well myself....I feel your pain! I stick to english (straight from the nape) braids. I will try again one day.....but it hurts my arms then I get doubly frustrated because of lacking results AND arm aches!!!