Sebborrhea advice/help

[tabby28]

I have SD and have been reading old threads on this topic, (sorry to bring it up again I know alot of this has been covered elsewhere) but there are a couple of questions I couldnt find an answer to.

Firstly, are AVC rinses good for scalps suffering from SD or not? I am confused about this because some people have said yes and others no. Is it just down to your individual hair type or can an AVC rinse actually make it worse?

Secondly, how best to disinfect/cleanse combs/detangling tools after use?

Thirdly, has anyone found herbal rememdies like Neem or Henna/Cassia to be particularly useful?

Sorry if I have missed the answers to these, just wanted to be sure. Thanks all!

[Teazel]

Hi! :) I mentioned to my dermatologist that I thought ACV rinses did my SD good, and he thought it was possible, as ACV would be mildly exfoliating. He recommended it should be left for 20 minutes and then rinsed off. :shrug:

[tabby28]

Ah thanks Teazel, thats good to know. I didn't want to risk making my scalp worse and I've never tried AVC before, but I think I'll give it a go now :) By the way, you have really beautiful colours in your hair! I love your braids in your siggy pic :D

[Teazel]

Thank you very much, tabby28! :flowers: Good luck with fighting your SD, and I hope yours is easier to combat than mine, which only really responds to topical steroid lotion. :justy:

[Darkhorse1]

I have SD as well and have found washing brushes/combs in shampoo effective.
I currently use head and shoulders and find it helps immensely before a heavy break out. Once I'm in a really bad breakout, Nizoral was the only over the counter product that worked, but it smelled gross.

I also found cold water rinses to be soothing if my scalp was really inflammed/itchy. Best of luck!

[Chiara]

I found that I had to really look at my diet to get my seborrhea and SD to improve- lots more seafood and leafy green salads, lots less chocolate and biscuits. It took around 6 weeks to see a difference.

The other things I've found helped are:
- my skin really hates most detergents and they can make me oilier and make my skin get more easily inflamed. I assume this is because they disturb the barrier function of the skin and it dries out more easily. So I've had to do a lot of experimentation with washing regimes, oiling my scalp. Its a work in progress, but I'll get there... My scalp is pretty happy on a water only washing regime (with some ACV rinses) but my hair just looks vile. So I'm trying to find a middle way!
- scratching my scalp makes it all so, so much worse. Just by trying to cut down the amount of scratching, I've seen an improvement in the flaking.
- check that you are not overheating at night, when you sleep. This can cause problems with your skin and scalp. I saw an improvement when I got rid of my quilt... There is an interesting article here that talks about it. http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/helthrpt/stories/s2015.htm

[x0h_bother]

I have SD and ACV rinses didn't work for me for scalp issues.
I fight mine daily with head and shoulders.
GL!

[kabelaced]

I found that I had to really look at my diet to get my seborrhea and SD to improve- lots more seafood and leafy green salads, lots less chocolate and biscuits. It took around 6 weeks to see a difference.

The other things I've found helped are:
- my skin really hates most detergents and they can make me oilier and make my skin get more easily inflamed. I assume this is because they disturb the barrier function of the skin and it dries out more easily. So I've had to do a lot of experimentation with washing regimes, oiling my scalp. Its a work in progress, but I'll get there... My scalp is pretty happy on a water only washing regime (with some ACV rinses) but my hair just looks vile. So I'm trying to find a middle way!
- scratching my scalp makes it all so, so much worse. Just by trying to cut down the amount of scratching, I've seen an improvement in the flaking.
- check that you are not overheating at night, when you sleep. This can cause problems with your skin and scalp. I saw an improvement when I got rid of my quilt... There is an interesting article here that talks about it. http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/helthrpt/stories/s2015.htm

Thanks for posting that link - I found the article very informative! I have been thinking about trying CO washes for a while now, and this piece was inspiring :)

[Teazel]

check that you are not overheating at night, when you sleep. This can cause problems with your skin and scalp. I saw an improvement when I got rid of my quilt... There is an interesting article here that talks about it. http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/helthrpt/stories/s2015.htm

Thank you for the link, Chiara! That was very interesting. It hadn't occurred to me that overheating at night might be adding to my troubles, so I will have to address that. :agree:

[heidi w.]

I have SD and have been reading old threads on this topic, (sorry to bring it up again I know alot of this has been covered elsewhere) but there are a couple of questions I couldnt find an answer to.

Firstly, are AVC rinses good for scalps suffering from SD or not? I am confused about this because some people have said yes and others no. Is it just down to your individual hair type or can an AVC rinse actually make it worse?

Secondly, how best to disinfect/cleanse combs/detangling tools after use?

Thirdly, has anyone found herbal rememdies like Neem or Henna/Cassia to be particularly useful?

Sorry if I have missed the answers to these, just wanted to be sure. Thanks all!

AVC RINSES:
Some, apparently, do not respond well to this. However, there are a fair percent who do (I'm willing to argue more have a neutral-to-positive response compared to perhaps neutral-to-negative response. But that is not in any way statistical; it is an opinion borne from a good solid ten years, at minimum, participating in long hair internet sites.) I was an early advocate of ACV Rinses for Seborrheic Dermatitus, which I have to this day. I will say it needs to be well-diluted, and one tip that I would add now from days of yore when I advocated this is blondes of any sort should use white vinegar, not apple cider vinegar. As a blonde, it seems my hair color changed a trace amount. I have to consider that some of this change is because of hormones as the last ten years span my ages of 40-50 (presently 50). It's normal for many in menopause and post menopause to have a change in hair color, particularly blondes going darker somehow. This may also be genetics within my family. Apple Cider Vinegar, when used persistently for a long time, I do believe can contribute to a sense of more redness (on the brunette spectrum) in hair color. I will add to dilute this well (as in 3 Tablespoons in an 8 oz glass of water), which I've always advocated. I believe for those with S.D. that the timing to use this rinse is best done after BOTH hair washing and rinsing are complete.

I will also argue trying to find a shampoo without laurel or laureth sulfate might prove helpful. I no longer use most store shelf shampoo. I use now a special line produced by a unique provider not in this country. The products create a near sense of almost no symptoms UNLESS I fail to wash relatively timely (at least once per week).

WASHING COMBS
Comb washing for S.D. is a key part of keeping the symptoms of itchiness, outbreaks of red dots that weep and bleed and itch mercilessly at bay.

We do not want to re-introduce bacteria from sores, or oiliness from pre-hair wash (meaning before the last hair wash) back IN TO the hair and on scalp skin. I once discovered my comb so overly filthy that I finally recognized why 'recently' I'd been having more troubles with S.D. than in months past. My combs were dirty.

On this note, also wash that pillow case. S.D. isn't confined to scalp skin: it can affect facial skin, particularly if there's a bit of buildup going. I will argue that washing of pillowcases should be done in warm to hot water, not cold.

SO using a toothpick, go between hair comb tines and loosen debris buildup on the comb. For serious cases of S.D., this will appear gray-white, and clump easily into a teensy ball if you fuss with the muck. (I know, ew, huh?!) Not kidding though. This step is a surprise to most who clean combs as they often do not realize this nearly imperceptible buildup on the tines of the comb. Pay particular attention to the bridge of the comb between the teeth, the u zone between two teeth. FInally, if your comb happens to have any hint of a a plastic mold line on any of the teeth (or all), then you need to do this task on BOTH sides of the comb.

THEN using hot water and a small scrub brush or nail brush or even a tooth brush, place a drop of your choice of shampoo for your condition on the comb and on the brush. Lather the brush; quickly remove the comb from under the hot water stream, and start scrubbing. In days of yore I used NIZORAL over-the-counter (not prescription strength) shampoo for cleaning combs (I now use my wonderful shampoo...) Scrub well both sides of he comb between teeth, that u zone I mentioned above and even the area that the hand holds. You want no risk of re-introducing that bacteria.

I wash my detangling combs after every hair wash. This practice is a part of my complete and full hair wash routine, and in fact, also a task I perform whenever I do a mere scalp wash. Every time, without fail. This includes the comb I use at home AND any purse/pocketbook comb.

I also replace combs perhaps about once a year. I do this on wood combs; my various plastic combs.

IF you wish to entirely disinfect you can place plastic combs on the top tier of a dishwasher along with dishes. OR you can spritz with a combination of rubbing alcohol and water and swab clean with a clean cloth (no old towels).

Aside: also, use a clean towel every hair wash....replace your daily towel for basic bathing (shower, for example, for getting ready for work) at least once a week, and for more severe cases of S.D. consider every third day. Once a hint of aroma sets in, get a fresh towel. I recommend finding a way to allow a given towel that you intend to re-use a few times before the next wash to completely air dry. Clumped up on a hook or towel rack does not allow a towel to completely dry between uses: and this wetness, warmth, and bacteria can be a haven for growth and re-introduction on skin. S.D. likes to lurk between eyebrows, even in armpits, groin, and under heavy breasts, for example. OR back of neck....

So hygienic practices can matter. Typically S.D., as far as I know anyway, is not transferable to those who do not have it, but I would also not allow others to use my combs or eyelash brushes and tools, eyebrow, makeup tools, towels, that kind of thing.

All my towels are white, so it's easy to wash them in hot water with some bleach to ensure the killing off of bacteria. Same for my sheets and pillowcases. (I also avoid stuffing the washer packed. Plenty of hot water and fabric loose in the water to swish around easily in the solution of soap and some bleach. I also had to find a good soap for washing clothes, sheets, towels as I found some irritation from these agents.)

HERBAL REMEDIES
I cannot comment on the two products you cited. I can advocate that finding an herbal shampoo product, or greatly diluting your shampoo and not using conditioner on scalp skin will likely assist you over time.

Some find some relief using things such as Tea Tree Oil, but I would absolutely conduct a skin test patch test to ensure you won't react adversely. IF pregnant or gestating, take great care in the application on skin (and particularly young children and babies as this stuff can in some instances get into blood stream even with a skin exterior application). S.D. includes the symptom of oiliness, but it may help somehow. The organic conditioner I currently use smells quite strongly as though it has some form of mint in it -- spearmint, peppermint, a kind of menthol. So that may be useful to experiment with.

Oils derived of plant esters should be diluted in a carrier oil such as Jojoba Oil. This is very important to know to not apply to skin full strength. There's lots of info on the internet and some sites do include precautions including don't wear in sun, raising of blood pressure risk, don't use during pregnancy or breast-feeding....that kind of thing. Know as much as you can before considering using an oil on your skin.

Ylang Ylang oil may prove useful, too.

Some have found help by going through a yeast or candida diet, and eliminating these types of foods. Plenty of info about a yeast or candida diet are available on the internet as well.

FURTHER RECOMMENDATION
To help you further, I recommend an addition to your hair lexicon:
Naturally Healthy Hair. I think anyone desiring healthy hair of any length will find this book by Mary Beth Janssen and co-author really interesting. It has a ton of herbal recipes for hair, including making your own shampoos and conditioners, and lots of info on the basics of hair growth and care. Notably she discusses nutrition as does any quality guide.

I also found some improvements in my current area when I moved the household to softened water, vs. the unusually hard water my area provides. So know that water quality can matter. A simple shower head filter may be sufficient, and they're not expensive nor difficult to install on the arm of a shower head. (Check out Menards or Home Depot and such for possible offerings. Just change the filter regularly, so pick a brand that won't be going out of business soon making it hard to find future filters.)

A FINAL NOTE
For my situation, I discovered that applying conditioner to my scalp skin was a huge contribution to the symptoms of S.D. I have it particularly bad. I know others who have this malady yet don't seem to have it in spades as I do. People with S.D. typically can't go a whole week without at least a scalp wash. Nevertheless, my current regime specifically has an herbal conditioner that is supposed to be applied to scalp skin on purpose.

My very best, and hopefully some of this is helpful to you. Remember there's no cure -- only treating and thus managing the symptoms.
heidi w.

[heidi w.]

Ah, I meant to mention that the purported benefit of specifically an Apple Cider vinegar rinse is that ACV has the malic acid in it which is known specifically to have beneficial properties for the scalp skin, skin in general. However, a vinegar rinse with white vinegar likely will help since the whole idea includes moving the pH of scalp skin to more 'neutral' or even slightly acidic on the pH scale, as opposed to shampoo/conditioner tending to leave scalp skin a bit on the alkaline side. (Good Lord, I'm doing this from memory, so I hope I didn't say this backwards.)

One other tip: I strongly advocate the practice of "Scritching" prior to a given hair wash, particularly those with S.D. It's very helpful to lightly scrape, if you will, the scalp skin and thus loosen debris that tends to dry and cake on the scalp skin. One reason the hair can become 'oily' so fast after a given hair wash in the scenario of S.D. symptoms is that the scalp skin really isn't clean and free of bacteria or gunk. Loosening that stuff, which looks a lot like average dandruff flakes (and S.D. is a severe form of dandruff actually, or so that was my discovery). Really get around the ears, the back of the neck, the entire perimeter of the hair line....do this every time with a fine-toothed comb (which I know seems counter-intuitive) prior to a hair wash. The longer you've gone between washes, the more likely this will be useful. Then all that gunk will more easily wash away in the washing.

Hair wash technique matters too: the first application of shampoo on fully wet hair is to release the surface tension that oily/sebum built-up hair tends to have (that's what S.D. does -- it creates an even worse barrier to hair getting fully wet (such as top can be wet, but feel under the back of the neck, and the thicker the hair, the less likely it's fully wet until you get that head under that water for a bit)....the first application breaks this barrier. The second hair wash actually begins to truly clean scalp skin and related hair and length.

Ok, that should be a good starter kit.
heidi w.

[Chiara]

Hi again,

I think the most frustrating thing about SD and seborrhea is that it (probably) has a multitude of causes ie different people develop the same symptoms but for different reasons. So, for one person it might be about eating habits and for someone else it might be something different. So the challenge is to find something that
1) is achievable in terms of time and cost
2) gives you the most improvement for the amount of effort you put in
3) keeps you feeling socially acceptable

As heidi w said, there are no fast cures here :( so it's about working out a regime that will keep you feeling as OK as possible about it, and (hopefully) that means that, if it gets worse (as it can, due to stress/illness etc) or it is really important to you to look 'perfect' (for a wedding or something like that) you still have something to fall back on... like cortisone creams or whatever. Anyway, that's been my approach!

[heidi w.]

Chiara makes a very important point. What works for you; what works for me can vary.

IN fact, now that I've been dealing with this a good ten years, actually longer....much longer I just didn't know what it was....I can also say that the symptoms can fade in and fade out over time, depending on all kinds of factors. How I handle this situation now as compared to the past is a lot less fuss, yet bettter results. A lot less time and money too.

I will say for those who 'believe' they have it, it's a good idea to get a valid diagnosis from a dermatologist, for example. That helped me a lot because I also had to use prescription strength Nizoral for a time. The over-the-counter formula was too low of medication.

Also some of the symptoms of S.D. can be something else.

There are lots of various forms of skin maladies. More commonly for example, exzema, psoriasis, rosacea.....

heidi w.

[swivelhop]

I could be very wrong, but I thought SD was fungal not bactiria. That at least prompted me to try the yogurt scalp pack. Once a week I've packed my scalp/roots with plain full fat live yogurt and let those lactic acid bactiria do thier thing for a couple hours before washing. In just 3 weeks my dandruff has cleared up to where it has not been in .... my life?
I have also been very 'so what' about it. So someone sees a flakes. Even healthy skin sheds regularly.

[sycamoreboutiqu]

Any updates to this thread ? I tried the yogurt scalp treatment today (mixed it with honey and a bit of coconut oil). Scalp feels great, no recurrning scabbiness which often happens in less than 12 hours.

Last week I tried something different too - I have some Zinc Oxide powder I use in body product formulas and mixed some with weak shampoo and left that on for a short while. Followed that with a coconut oil/diluted shampoo and lots of condish.
It did soothe the scalp right away and I was pretty effective right up until day 5 when the itch and scales returned. Some weeks I can make it a whole week with no issues but most times 5 days is it, but that is pretty good.
One of the worst weeks was when I CO'd with Sauve's Coconut conditioner. Itchy immediately.

[Charybdis]

I used to have SD problems as a teen and in my early twenties, but my scalp is usually clear now. I had good luck with Denorex Extra Strength on my scalp, but it's quite harsh on your hair. Even washing with Denorex just once a week helped with keeping my scalp issues at bay. I also had some success with Aveda's dandruff treatment (http://www.aveda.com/product/CATEGORY10531/PROD11911/Hair_Care/Extra_Treatment/index.tmpl), although I think the formulation now may be different from back then.

Unfortunately, I don't know why my SD cleared up. I do know that my scalp likes baby shampoo, which I may go back to now that I'm not using commercial styling products on my hair regularly anymore. It's possible that part of what cleared my scalp was an extended bout of using baby shampoo in my early 20s when I had long, undyed hair.

I have been having some random itchies recently, which I think is a combo of dust/pollen allergies and using different shampoo. I think it may be time to get back to baby shampoo and maybe try out a yogurt treatment.

[Cupofmilk]

My biggest issue with SD is that I need to use Nizoral or T-gel everytime I wash. Conditioner leads to a worstening of the condition. I am now thinking about scritching being important for me and also thinking about herbs to wash with.

[slo2gro]

OMG its so nice to see someone like HEIDI with SD with that gorgeous lond hair. I always thought use peeps had to have short hair n thus i never really had very long hair i mean at times long ish but not my dream hair. Through the years since the start of age 15 the SD was bad then big scales of it wet sores my grandmother would pick off it has gone through stages. None its not bad at all. Its calmed down a lot. I use Nizoral weekly when I feel its needed sometimes rotate with head n shoulders n a scalp lotion via script from doctor. I dont have weeping scales but i do get the itchies. My hair is doing ok, and Im back to my dream of long hair.

[Jimothea]

Though you've got some excellent input, I'll weigh in here as yet another SD sufferer.

Question 1: ACV (or the like) is helpful for me, yes, and for a variety of reasons. I have hard water, and this helps me balance that out; also, even well diluted (I eyeball approx 3/4 inch in a water bottle, then fill, per shower), the ACV rinse will sting, but in a good way, like after a nice, long scratch that will tear my scalp to shreds. However, yes, SD is like anything else, and what works for me by no means is guaranteed to work for all. I should also mention ACV does eradicate it, just helps keep at bay. For instances of the painful weepy scabs, I dab some straight ACV on them (holy kibibble, does it burn like a mother or what!--but it's been worth it so far) with a q-tip, and then dab castor oil on top of that, with a fresh q-tip. Seems to dry them up quicker and with less itching and pain. I've read it's the "Mother" which makes ACV good, but I too am going from memory!

Question 2: I pretty much do what Heidi says. All those open or semi-open spots can get infected. Ever had staph? *shudder* You can't have too clean of hair untensils, especially when already dealing with a skin condition.

Question 3: Herbs. I've heard Tea Tree oil is good, but even my healthy skin can't handle it. I've also heard neem is good, but I've not yet tried it. I'm a blonde, so negative to henna for me, but I have used cassia. I hoped it would help, but it did not seem to...it didn't make my scalp worse or anything, but I admit I was disappointed. Rosemary tisanes and mint tisanes make my scalp feel great--while their on my scalp; clean fresh and tingly... but I haven't noticed a change in overall scalp health from them. Perhaps that's because I don't do treatments often enough?

Those answers aside, three main things make a huge impact on my SD flares: Sugar!!! (*sad*), Stress, and Hygeine. Changes in those really trigger flare-ups. First two are hard to control, for me, lol (with my baking habits and family members!), but the second one I can have complete control over.

Two secondary things make minor impacts--Harsh shampoos, and frequency of washes. The harsher the shampoo, the more my scalp freaks out, the more bumps and sores it makes, and the more it burns and throbs. Soooo, lol, no harsh shampoo for me. (I CO, and it seems to maintain status quo). Also, yeah, as for stretching washes, I can only go so far before my scalp lets me know it really wants to be clean. Best case scenario is four days, and by then my whole scalp feels like it should be ripped from my skull.

Obviously this is all super individualized, like the others mentioned. Oh--and I was told dandruff is different from SD, though the doc admitted there was discrepencies in her field. Whatever that meant. I went with it b/c my scalp and my hair hate most of the dandruff shampoos; too harsh.

Personal tip (kinda common sense, but not): If you feel like you have to wash your scalp, GO DO IT!!!! Don't wait till dinner's cooked, and paperwork is done, and bills paid--stop what you are doing, and go wash, then come back and get on with life! (If possible, I mean) If you wait, you might scratch without even realizing it, and transfer all kind of nastiness to those sores from under those well-meaning fingernails.

HTH, and good luck!

[Popsicle]

Kenalog spray with Spray Tube from your doctor will clear it up like nothing else I have tried. The chemical name is Triamcinolone Acetonide Topical Aerosol, USP (0.147 mg/g). Another plus is that Kenalog spray comes with a narrow red spray tube that attaches to the spray button much like the red ones on WD40 lubricant which paces the spray through and past the thick hair and up against the scalp, where the SD and/or psoriasis problems are.
It is noteworthy that SD and psoriasis are known to commonly co-exist on the same scalp. The Kenalog spray with Spray Tube treats both conditions. This news is important to those who are bothered by trying to figure out which condition they have on their scalp.

[lapushka]

Kenalog spray with Spray Tube from your doctor will clear it up like nothing else I have tried. The chemical name is Triamcinolone Acetonide Topical Aerosol, USP (0.147 mg/g). Another plus is that Kenalog spray comes with a narrow red spray tube that attaches to the spray button much like the red ones on WD40 lubricant which paces the spray through and past the thick hair and up against the scalp, where the SD and/or psoriasis problems are.
It is noteworthy that SD and psoriasis are known to commonly co-exist on the same scalp. The Kenalog spray with Spray Tube treats both conditions. This news is important to those who are bothered by trying to figure out which condition they have on their scalp.

This thread is almost 4 years old. Just FYI. ;)

[Popsicle]

*blush* I see that now. Is there a newer one on the same topic?

[lapushka]

*blush* I see that now. Is there a newer one on the same topic?

Yep this one:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=54045

[Popsicle]

Yep this one:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=54045

The 1st post on that thread was on August 18th, 2010, 09:25 AM. It is one month newer. HA, thanks! :D :D
Anyway... Kenalog spray! Try it -- those of you who searched the database of this forum and ask your doctor about it if nothing else is working for you. It has improved my life.
*** skipping away to find a recent thread to help me thicken up my fine long hair***

[lapushka]

The 1st post on that thread was on August 18th, 2010, 09:25 AM. It is one month newer. HA, thanks! :D :D
Anyway... Kenalog spray! Try it -- those of you who searched the database of this forum and ask your doctor about it if nothing else is working for you. It has improved my life.
*** skipping away to find a recent thread to help me thicken up my fine long hair***

Yes, but it wasn't a "dead" thread, meaning it has been posted in recently, that's the difference. See. ;)