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View Full Version : Need help from wurlies and/or wavies!



ErinM
July 16th, 2010, 05:09 PM
I have thick, straight, heavy hair. If I wanted it to curl, I'd have to chemically alter it, and the one time I did that, it turned out horribly. My hair has always been a wash it, let it dry, brush it out and done kind of routine.

So, naturally, I am totally lost with this! The underlayer:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_MzT8SD_arys/TEDYDgvNG2I/AAAAAAAAAGE/Db86XlODUBw/s640/2010-07-16%2008.27.31.jpg

The top, as her hair normally lays:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_MzT8SD_arys/TEDX7M0Gh0I/AAAAAAAAAGA/z4nxGVNX5PA/s640/2010-07-16%2008.28.09.jpg

This is my youngest daughter, who apparently got her father's hair genes! Since his is kept in a short military buzz, I never thought about the wavies! This is two days after a wash, which usually hubby then brushes out. After all my time on LHC lately, it finally dawned on me that the extreme frizz I usually battle with her hair may be due to the fact that- DUH- we shouldn't brush her hair! I tried wetting it down with some leave-in today and finger-combing it, and it seemed a bit better, but I'm at a loss. As you can see, it's much more wavey underneath, and more straight on top, which leads to fluffy weirdness!

Does this qualify as a wurly or a wave type? How should I care for her hair to make it seem less frizzy and unruly? This is so out of my own haircare knowledge league! Help!

Kaijah
July 16th, 2010, 06:04 PM
I'd definitely say a wavey type, somewhere in the 2's probably, but I'm terrible at typing.

Have you experimented with cowashing or CWC for her hair? Waves/curls generally do really well with lots of conditioner (though if her hair is really fine you may have to be careful not to weigh it down with *too* much). I particularly like this explanation (http://dormroomcurly.blogspot.com/2008/12/style-definitions-table.html) of the Curly Girl method - though whether or not you want to experiment with hair styling products other than a leave in conditioner is up to you. You might have good enough results without using styling cremes/gels/etc. Live Curly Live Free (http://livecurlylivefree.com/curl%20care.htm) is also kind of a home base for curl knowledge (though I wouldn't buy the book, you can find all the info online).

A light leave in would be a good idea, and you can use pretty much any regular conditioner as one. You're right, no brushing/combing/fiddling with it (especially while wet/drying) because that'll just make her waves go POOF!

If you like to go a few days between actual washes, you can "refresh" the wave just by spritzing with a bit of water, the finger combing through some leave in and scrunching the hair a bit (I don't know if you've heard that term - think gathering up the hair from the bottom, and squish upwards toward the scalp). Pretty much exactly what you mentioned you had tried earlier.

Our own Wurly and Curly (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=369) thread is an absolute wealth of information as well, if you ever needed to check in with a bunch of curlies for questions in the future!

Annalouise
July 16th, 2010, 06:26 PM
I just want to say that she has really pretty hair. Gorgeous. Whatever you are doing it can't be that bad because her hair looks so pretty.:)

Chamomile betty
July 16th, 2010, 06:31 PM
She has beautiful hair. I would wash it only when needed. Also, use a wide tooth comb instead of a brush. I love Mane & Tail detangler (it has cones) for my wurly hair. You might just need to experiment a bit to see what works. Enjoy finding out what works and make it a fun mom and daughter thing.

ErinM
July 16th, 2010, 06:48 PM
Thanks for the replies. :) Like I said, I feel totally out of my haircare-knowledge-league! :)

Does the CG method work when it's just wavies you're dealing with? I guess that's why I never thought to look into the curly threads! I never considered it truly curly! The only time I've ever seen it really "curl" is when she had swim lessons and her hair was in a ponytail, and the WHOLE ponytail made one curl! Actually, I have a picture of that! It looks like one big corkscrew!
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs610.snc3/32132_10150208105065646_816825645_12987922_2975472 _n.jpg

I guess I'll start digging around to read up on waves and routine! Mostly, I wish I could get her hair in a uniform look instead of the odd-looking (to me!) straight-on-top-wave-underneath-whole-thing-poofs look she's had going on for a while now. :) My oldest seems to have gotten my straight hair, so at least I don't feel totally outnumbered! :p

Kaijah
July 16th, 2010, 07:04 PM
Yup, CG can work for even the barest of waves. She might get wavier/curlier from it as well!

Different treatment might make the two layers act more similarly, but it might also just be that she has two different textures growing on her head. I've seen other curlies who have that difference between the upper and lower layers (sometimes because the upper layer gets more mechanical manipulation and sun exposure, but not always), and some even with visibly different texture patches around their scalp. I know I at least have a fairly crazily mixed bag of curls and waves! XD

Not to mention, she's still young - who knows how her hair may change up on you later. :P

I love that corkscrew! It's almost like a rope braid, haha. I think that's another sign she could definitely get some serious waves going.

GRU
July 16th, 2010, 07:21 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if, with some CG techniques, she ends up as a 2c.... her hair definitely has the capacity for a spiral, given that ponytail picture!

I'll just second/third the advice you've been given so far, and I'd also add a recommendation to read Lorraine Massey's Curly Girl book. She has a whole section about dealing with kid hairstyles.

And since it looks like she still has baby-fine hair, I'm thinking that some gentle CO-washing and a very light leave-in will probably be all you need to do with it. The leave-in will reduce her tanglies, too.

And I just have to add.... I'll bet she's QUITE the fairy princess in the family, eh? Exactly how many times does her daddy wrap around her finger???? ;)

ErinM
July 16th, 2010, 07:31 PM
The corkscrew cracked me up, too. I told hubby we finally found out where her "devilish curl" was hiding! :)

Kaijah- it would be just like her to throw me a curveball and have her hair change down the road, probably right after I figure out how to work with what I've got now. :p

GRU - it appears our local library carries the Curly Girl book, though it's checked out at the moment. I might add myself as a hold on it for when it comes in. Thanks for the recommendation. :) As for their daddy, we have TWO girls- my oldest is the more princess and this one more tomboy, but not much. They both dress up in "gowns and crowns" quite often. You can believe daddy hasn't come UNCURLED since the day our first was born. ;)

GRU
July 16th, 2010, 08:51 PM
As for their daddy, we have TWO girls

Oh, the poor guy..... he's done for! :lol:

Good luck with your devil-girl ;) and you know where to find a whole bunch of us wurly/curly girly types for tips on dealing with the hair... you're on your own with the personality! :p

lapushka
July 17th, 2010, 10:51 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if, with some CG techniques, she ends up as a 2c.... her hair definitely has the capacity for a spiral, given that ponytail picture!

That's exactly what I was thinking. Plopping (or plunking, a CG technique) might work after a wash (bunching it up in a towel), like this (there's a lot of videos out there on the same technique):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2qD38ZYX6A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iEUvUzO0q0&feature=related

ErinM
July 17th, 2010, 09:20 PM
Thanks! I had seen mention of the plopping/plunking thing before, and never read further since I'm so straight-haired.

We did a CO wash tonight with a Sauve naturals first (because we have it to use up) and then I put on some of my Fructis Triple Nutrition. I combed while it was wet, got her out of the bath and had her flip upside down (while she giggled madly that everything looked silly) and now she's sitting on the couch with a towel around her head watching TV. Kind of glad hubby is out of town this weekend, so we can do this girly thing without him giving me the crazy eye. :)

I think we'll put some Fructis in after the towel comes off, as a leave-in, to see how that does. I'll take pictures tonight after all this to compare to those in my earlier post. It'll be interesting to see, no matter what happens. Thanks, LHCers! Can always rely on the wealth of knowledge here to solve any problem! :)

ErinM
July 17th, 2010, 09:46 PM
OH WOW! So, we didn't shampoo, as I said. Maybe I should clarify her hair next bath, though... it feels a little heavy and... ick. She would only keep the towel on her head for about 15 minutes, so I'm not sure if longer would help. It's already pulling straight on top, it looks, with that wild wavey/curly underneath. Still, significant difference from the other photos. We'll see what it looks like tomorrow.
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs063.snc4/34518_10150231961275646_816825645_13675059_7913569 _n.jpg

Not the best photo, but you can see how much spiral is in that underlayer.
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs101.ash2/38401_10150231961285646_816825645_13675061_249783_ n.jpg

Thanks for all the input, everyone. We'll have to keep tinkering with the routine and see what we can get to work for us. Daddy will have to be informed that we're on a no-more-brush routine for a while. :D

GRU
July 18th, 2010, 07:56 AM
The Fructis might be too heavy to use as her leave-in, since she still has baby-hair. Try doing it with the Suave as the leave-in and see if that works differently.

And bless you for making this effort.... the "were you allowed long hair" thread shows that many, many mothers just gave up and chopped our hair when they didn't know how to deal with wurls and curls....

HikerTrash
July 18th, 2010, 08:25 AM
That straight on the top layer, curly underneath thing lends itself well to a surfer girl look. I used to be so jealous of my schoolmates with hair like that.

ErinM
July 18th, 2010, 08:49 AM
GRU - Having lived my own version of hack-it-off-to-make-it-easy hell, I wouldn't do that unless SHE wanted to have short hair. Which, of course, she insists she doesn't. So, pushing forward!

HikerTrash - Too funny! If we lived in San Diego still, perhaps she could pull it off as such. :)

So, this morning, we're back to the straight-on-top-curly-underneath oddity. I need to take a better picture of what it does. Any input on how to style it while dry? We have some spray leave-in for kids kind of stuff that I could use to kind of wet it up again and try some aloe vera as gel and scrunch? I still haven't touched her with the brush, but you should see the mane on this kid! :justy:

GRU
July 18th, 2010, 08:59 AM
Any input on how to style it while dry? We have some spray leave-in for kids kind of stuff that I could use to kind of wet it up again and try some aloe vera as gel and scrunch?

Check the ingredients list for cones... you can also just use plain old water in a spray bottle, perhaps add a few drops of conditioner to the bottle and shake it up well.

You can also try to "align" her strands into curls.... when my hair is wet/damp and I comb it totally free of tangles, the individual strands get all lined up the same and form a curl on their own. To make the curls clump into fewer-but-bigger curls instead of a gazillion smaller and frizzier-looking curls, you can use your fingers to combine several strands together as they come out of the comb.

Kind of hard to describe, but I just talked about it in this thread the other day: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?p=1169467#post1169467


ETA: I only comb my hair wet when it has conditioner in it....

Pear Martini
July 18th, 2010, 09:04 AM
For a little girl, I dont see a problem with frizzy hair as long as its clean. Pigtails and pigtail braids should be a go-to style for your child.She has stunning locks!

ErinM
July 18th, 2010, 09:07 AM
Funny, GRU, I had been looking at your awesome pictorial display ;) and thought about trying that. I can wet it down with the mister and go from there, I guess.

Here's this morning's look. You can see why I'm kind of frustrated. If I let her go out with this head of hair, it looks unkempt and ragamuffin! LOL If I brush it, we get the fro of wildness. The top is straight again...
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_MzT8SD_arys/TEMX7FnSIrI/AAAAAAAAAGQ/aSJMlDYvKgk/s512/DSC_0349.JPG
And that underlayer is wild and wurly!
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_MzT8SD_arys/TEMX7Q14jUI/AAAAAAAAAGU/-3oNHsWqxaA/s512/DSC_0350.JPG

As was mentioned earlier, maybe her hair is still changing and will make up it's mind, but it's done this for a while now. It is still pretty fine, too, but her daddy has fine, thin hair. Gah!

ETA - Pear Martini- when she actually *lets* me "style" her hair, I can usually get pigtails in, just barely, before she's off and running. She'll wear them for maybe a few hours before I find she's pulled them out. Braiding is totally out of the question because she won't sit for it and says it hurts. Thanks for the compliments, though. She does have very pretty hair!

lapushka
July 18th, 2010, 09:08 AM
This may come in handy. It's a link to the Curly Girl Method, with lots of information and tips:
http://www.wikihow.com/Follow-the-Curly-Girl-Method-for-Curly-Hair

Her hair looks more wavy than curly, so conditioner may not be all that great (doesn't work for everyone). A low sulfate or no sulfate shampoo might be better. I vary between a regular sulfate shampoo (if I've used or am using some conditioner with silicones) and a no-sulfate shampoo.

Also, if her hair goes a little wonky, updos might help (when let down they tend to make the wave pattern come out better or in a different, more coheseve way).

blueraindrop
July 18th, 2010, 09:02 PM
Would she put up with you pulling back just the top layer into a pony etc, while scrunching the bottom layer and leaving it down?

TrudieCat
July 18th, 2010, 09:34 PM
I think it's wonderful that you are working with your daughter's natural texture, and in the process teaching her to love and make the most of what is uniquely her! I had a moment of shock when I looked at the first pictures you posted in this thread, because those pictures could have been childhood pictures of me - my hair looked just like that - the color, the texture when brushed out, the curliness underneath and straightness on top... it was just a little weird for me to see those pics. :D But I do not by any means have baby fine hair these days, and my hair got much wavier as I got older.

I went through childhood with a tangled and flippy mess of hair. I considered it straight then, but I realize now that it was most certainly not straight. It was never smooth the way that truly straight hair is. My mom or I usually brushed it out in the morning and it typically reverted to its usual state of stringy disarray within an hour or so.

But I never really cared until I reached middle school. I was too busy doing kid stuff. I'd say, it's good to work with her hair's texture and teach her to love her natural beauty, but I wouldn't worry too much if her hair stays uneven for a while. Her hair's texture might change a lot over time, and it's not the end of the world if her hair is a little wonky while she's running around enjoying her childhood. She'll probably make up for it by stressing about her hair plenty during adolescence & beyond. :)

GRU
July 19th, 2010, 06:40 AM
How about putting her hair in a loose-ish French or English braid (or low pony, or topknot pony, or pigtails) at night?

That might get her scalp (and her mind) used to the feel of braids (or ponies), and therefore more likely to not pull them out when wearing them during the day? And the braiding/ponying ritual could be a mother/daughter bedtime bonding thing that can carry over into her older years.... kids are often more comfortable talking about things when they're not face-to-face (like when riding in the vehicle, which is when my DS asked The Question That Every Parent Knows Is Coming But Wishes Never Would! [birds-and-bees]).

goodluckcharm
July 19th, 2010, 08:30 AM
I have hair just like your little girl's. Curly on the underside and straighter on top.

You've gotten good advice so far. I use suave to CWC (giovanni when I need extra moisture, but your daughter probably doesn't have my dryness issues). I comb my hair while the second conditioner is on it, and then don't comb it again out of the shower. I like carol's daughter light hair milk as a leave-in.

For the top half of her hair, I would suggest alice style (pull the top half back with a barrette) or, use your fingers to twist the straight parts into spirals (i'll sometimes pin the spirals to the top of my head and let them dry there, nice and wavy when they're let down).

I think her hair is beautiful, not rag-a-muffin at all.

ErinM
July 19th, 2010, 08:48 AM
Thanks to all you wonderful wurlies, wavies and curlies! :) I feel better about things, and will just make a point to keep the brush far away from her head. Daddy will take some more training. He doesn't get the whole hair obsession thing. ;)

I will say I'm surprised so many people are so happy I'm working with her hair. Even with straight hair, I had my share of childhood-haircut-trauma, but I guess you curly gals had the worst, it seems? In any case, I'd never imagine trying to make her hair behave in a way it was never intended to. If I learn to work with it now, I'll be better equipped to help her when she has "hate my hair" days. :)

We'll have to give some more practice to the updos, especially the half-ups and braids you all mentioned. I think we just got so into the routine of spraying it down and trying to brush it out, and an hour later it's wavy and wild again. I need to learn to work the routine to her hair, and not the other way around!

In the meantime, I'll remember what TrudieCat has said, and it's so true. She's four years old! She doesn't care if she has stylish, beautiful hair. She's rolling in the sand and hanging upside down on the playground. If it bothers *me*, it's my hangup. As long as her hair is healthy and I'm doing the best I know how by her, we're all okay. :)

DancingQueen
November 23rd, 2012, 12:31 PM
- Lots of moisture, and a frizz-fighting shampoo and conditioner
- Wide tooth comb
- If you can, try an oil treatment once in a while, it really works wonders! But of course that can be difficult considering her age.

She have beautiful hair :)

kurlywurlygurl
November 23rd, 2012, 01:33 PM
I think you should was her hair using more natural methods. ACV rinses would be really good for cleansing her delicate little scalp, and at her age you should not be overwashing er hair, she could go once or twice a week at most. For tangles and combing, you should get a good leave in, but the ACV can take care of that. If her hair is ever in need of a good washing, use some diluted baking soda. Her hair type would really benefit from this. If she hates getting her hair brushed, I would highly reccomend Mane n Tail detangler. However, if you do not like the idea of using "cones" on her hair, get some vo5 or suave in a spray bottle and spritz that on the ends. Tangles should glide out fairly easily. Good luck! Let me know if you have any other questions!

Kiwiwi
November 23rd, 2012, 02:05 PM
Definitely don't forget to scrunch!
I see lots of great advice here so I won't add too much.
But scrunching when it's dry is KEY! If I don't do that I look like a wet dog. Curls all heavy and greasy looking.
So I wait till it's air dried. Then I hang my head upside down. Put all my fingers on my scalp (be careful not to go THROUGH the hair as it will disrupt the curls) and shake a bit. Then come back up and scrunch all my hair up with hands that are a bit wet. THEN I get the soft, bouncy curls I love :)
It really is key.