WO not working anymore...

[Katze]

There was a while when a WO wash, in between CWC or CW or WC washes, was giving me nice, shiny, wavy hair, getting my scalp clean, etc. It was a nice way of using less product and keeping my hair moisturized.

But the last few WO washes have not seemed to "work" for me, and I can't figure out why this is. A WO wash leaves me with hair that, frankly, looks dirty, lank, hangs weird, and which I have to wear up.

The only thing that has changed is that I am now using 'cones occasionally (Dove, as of December) but the WO problem has only come up in the past month or so. Maybe my hair needs a vinegar rinse for clarification?

I'm still fuzzy on the relation between 'cones and no 'cones, and when I need to use shampoo without 'coney conditioner, clarifying, buildup, etc. Maybe this is what's going on?

Suggestions?

[Riot Crrl]

Depending on the cones, a lot of them need detergent to remove. Vinegar won't do it I'm afraid. That's probably why.

[tiny_teesha]

i thoguht that bicarb wash was the only thing to get rid of cones? Mix some with coneless shampoo and sudds them out.

[Riot Crrl]

i thoguht that bicarb wash was the only thing to get rid of cones? Mix some with coneless shampoo and sudds them out.

I'm confused. SLS is. But it seems you are suggesting to mix the baking soda with SLS anyway? SLS gets them out, baking soda or no.

[aisling]

Riot Crrl is right about the vinegar, it will just help things rinse out better from your hair, not really clarify and get rid of everything. The built up cones are most probably the problem here, as you've used them only occasionally, it has taken time to build up.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the weather is changing here in northern Europe, it's been much warmer in the last few weeks. Changes like these can sometimes also have impact on your hair and you might need to adjust some things you do. I do think this is a minor issue in your case but it's good to remember it.

ETA: both SLS/SLES and baking soda will get rid of most buildup, cones or other. I do prefer shampoo as I find it more gentle than baking soda.

[spidermom]

Baking soda was very harsh on my hair; I wouldn't recommend it. Do you dilute your shampoo? That's my routine: CWC with diluted shampoo about every 4 days and oiling. The results are always good.

[Katze]

Well, I do use SLS shampoos, both with and without 'cones, when I CWC or CW or WC wash...

I thought that would be enough to get rid of buildup?

Baking soda was a hassle - it's not as convenient to find here, and is sold in much smaller packages - and didn't do anything special to my hair - vinegar works better.

Aisling, I think you might be right. After months and months of cold, damp, and dark, it is warm and sunny and dry here. My body and mind are happy, but maybe my hair needs time? :)

Thanks, going to do a shampoo only wash maybe with just oil on the ends and see what happens.

[Riot Crrl]

Here's the thing, before I found out about all this I was basically doing my own version of CWC with sulfates and cones for many years. But I always did it. Length felt fine, roots felt fine. Until such time as I saw fit to shampoo the whole length. (Only did if I really had a lot of product in it or something.) If I ever did that, which was once every year or two tops, my hair felt really awful until I got sufficient cone buildup on it again.

I now realize I was just feeling my real hair without its silicone entrapment.

Since being cone free, now my hair actually accepts moisture and stuff that I give it, which it wouldn't before. My hair kind of now seems more subject to various conditions than it used to when it was cone-coated with years of buildup at all times, but I would kind of rather have it breathe and drink stuff and be what it is.

[daydreamer]

WO started going funky on me too this past winter (and I was only using that) so I ended up going back to shampoo for now... I don't suppose there are any big weather changes for you that could be contributing to it? I think somehow hair likes different regimes for different seasons sometimes...

[Katze]

yeah, the weather is suspect #1. ;)

'cones, hm, I don't use them for every wash, but it could be that I have some kind of 'cone coating on my hair regardless. My hair without 'cones started getting really stringy, hanging weird, looking lank, etc.

I didn't WANT to use 'cones, was several years without them, but when I did try them I suddenly started getting compliments on my hair and it felt so shiny, sleek, swing-y, in a way it never had before. I know lots of people don't support the use of 'cones, but I don't feel like they damage my hair or anything if I use them 1-2x a month, but rather, that my hair looks and feels better with them.

It's almost impossible to find affordable, 'cone free conditioners here, too, and my hair just likes Dove. I do have to admit that I am afraid of using 'cones with every wash and somehow getting addicted or something. :D

[aisling]

When have you actually washed your length with shampoo? Aren't you like most of us here and wash only your scalp with shampoo? Some suds running down your length won't do much. Really, the stringyness etc you describe even from before using cones, really could be some kind of build up problem as well. To handle build up, you really need to wash your whole length with shampoo. Honestly, if you haven't washed your length with shampoo for a while, I think it's worth a try. It usually solves any problems I have with weird behaving, stringy looking, "lifeless" hair.

[tomm]

'cones, hm, I don't use them for every wash... I use them 1-2x a month
I'm sorry to read that you are having some trouble with your hair, Katze. That said, I don't think the 'cones are to blame. 'Cones are typically found in concentrations around 2-3% in conditioner formulations. Unless you are using handfuls, that isn't enough to pose any serious build up, especially if you are only using them 1-2x a month.

I would agree with aisling, try a thorough clarifying shampoo along your length to see if that improves things.

I hope this helps.

[Anje]

I've had WO fizzle on me before, though I would go for at least a month or two between other types of washes. Personally, Katze, I think your best bet would be to do what Aisling suggests, and wash your hair with an SLS shampoo from root to tip. If you want to try something less drastic first, try a slightly stronger vinegar rinse than you usually do -- sometimes that's enough to clean extra gunk off your hair, but it's not going to remove 'cones.

I wish I could suggest something for stringiness. However, if we're hairtwins, I think at some level we both need to accept that our hair is going to be a bit stringy. Mine always is within an hour or two of combing, anyway, even when freshly cleaned. Fine hair seems prone to it.

[Katze]

Anje, you are right - stringyness is easy to get with fine, thin hair. It is sometimes really hard to know what my hair wants! Also, the damaged parts are much worse than the rest. As my virgin hair grows out, it's much more resilient and forgiving.

Aisling, I usually only let the shampoo run down into my length and thought that was enough. Will try your idea.

tomm, I agree with you on the 'cones. Although I do use handfuls on my length, there can't be so much silicone that it's building up that badly.

Last night I washed with just SLS shampoo (Swiss O Par's teatree), no conditioner of any kind, then oiled my hair in the shower (coconut) from the ears down. Went to bed with semi-damp hair. It dried so soft and I have extra waves today!

[k_hepburn]

I'd be pointing to the major weather change we had here in Germany a few weeks ago, from grey and cool to almost summery hot.

I have been noticing that the outside temperatures seem to be affecting my scalp more than they used to - last year I was basically down to washing my hair daily for the hottest part of the summer - I'd never had to do that before. But then, summers never used to be this early or this hot when I grew up here.

Hope you'll find a new routine soon that works for you

Greetings

katharine