Tailbone = dry, tangly ends. Help?

[kettle]

Hey guys. I may be being a search-goon, but I'm having no luck searching for this topic - please do point me to appropriate threads if they're out there!

I've never had much of an issue with dry, tangly ends until I started to approach tailbone in January this year. Since then I've been doing my best with olive oil, damp bunning, daily misting, jojoba and, ultimately, trimming a little now and then. (I've never found trimming more than once a year to be necessary before now.) The bottom line is I've maintained roughly around tailbone for most of this year, but with what I feel are rather unhealthy-looking, velcro-like, dry ends. We're talking the last 2 inches or so feeling really quite unpleasant, while the rest of my hair feels soft and healthy.

My routine is essentially just CO, with the occasional, rather sporadic these days, deep treatment. I've clarified; I found this helped a little, but not as much as I'd hoped.

I've recently, thanks to a fluke LHC browse, discovered almond oil, and found this to be much more effective than olive oil in helping my ends to feel more like the rest of my hair. It seems to only work well when used heavily, and in combination with misting, the day before a CO wash. But even a day after the wash, the dry tanglies are back, and nothing seems to help.

I guess my questions are: are others at this length experiencing similar issues, and what do they feel has helped? Is this a particularly problematic length tangly-end wise? Has anyone out there been able to grow beyond tailbone with these issues? I've never had a particular length in mind as a goal, and tailbone feels "long enough" for now - is it a good idea to keep maintaining for now? I would quite like to grow longer.

Any advice (or links to useful threads I've missed!) would be very thankfully received!

Kettle :flower:

[Barniie]

I would suggest coconut oil, and/or a good trim! maybe an inch or two... sorry I couldn't be more helpful!

[FrannyG]

You've really tried a lot to make those ends better. My suggestion would be to trim those 2 inches off. Then really baby the new ends the way you're doing with your current ends.

I know that 2 inches sounds like a lot, but you'll have your length back in about 4 months. To me, it would be worth it.

[Sissy]

yes, I experience this issue and will be watching this thread with interest. I noticed doing a deep treatment with Nightbloomings panaceas leave in hair conditioner worked a treat, but I don't have much of that left. Being it contains shea butter and that seems to work for me, I was thinking of making some of Fox's Shea Butter Conditioner (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=4586)and trying that out on my ends. However, lately have been so stressed and busy that I haven't even had time to do deep treatments, so haven't made the Fox's stuff yet!

[Druella]

I had same problem... now my ends are shiny, soft and healthy-looking since i've been using olive oil :)

[Quahatundightu]

Personally I found that catnip has really helped mine!! Worth a try for sure, I love the stuff :D

[MsBubbles]

I'm not at tailbone but self-trimming half my length-gain each month both gets rid of tangly damaged ends, and lets me grow a little bit while taking care of the damage. I have not yet needed to cut more than half an inch at a time. This is what Nightshade recommended in her damage article and it works.

Growing is slow doing that but at least you don't have to decide between maintaining, going forth, or doing a major chop.

[maskedrose]

I've always been one to trim rather than deal with icky ends, so I would personally trim those last two inches off. For me, when I have ends like that I end up pulling out more hair and breakage increases, no matter how careful I am. Like FrannyG said, it will be back in 4 months and by the end of the year you'll still be an inch or two longer than you are now :)

[Gothic Lolita]

I'm also at wat I call "true-tailbone". That's somewhere between hip and classic, where your tailbone really ends.
I've also had problem with dry ends since reaching tailbone, although my hair normally isn't problematic. I tried oils, leave-ins and 'cones on them, but what did help was cutting maybe 1 inch off and then babying the new ends. After two month I'm now back at my original length and will do more treatments and maybe S&D (which I never did before). cutting off this old hair really improved the condition and I'm sure that it was also good for my length. Less tangles = better to brush = less splits in general!

[Fairlight63]

I also have the same problem with tangly ends. I have some hair coloring on the lower part of my hair - do you think that the hair dye is causing the velcour hair?

Anyone have virgin hair (no coloring on it) that is velcour also?

If so that shoots my idea that it is the hair dye that is causing tangly velcour hair.

[spidermom]

Exactly! I've been around hip/tailbone for more than a year. In January, I had 4 inches cut off, and now I seem to be ahead of the damage because my ends have been in good shape ever since. Best of all? My daughter pulled a measurement for me on June 1, and those 4inches are back already. Woo-Hoo! That's the fastest my hair has ever grown. Onward to classic length!

(P.S. I leave in some of my regular conditioner and use coconut oil.)

[kettle]

Well it seems pretty unanimous - I must admit reading through all these responses I do feel a little reluctant to cut, but this is only really because I've done quite a few teeny tiny trims (maybe 1-2cm tops) in an effort to make the ends feel better, which haven't really done the job but have left me with that "I've lost some length" head on. In reality I've barely lost any, and a good solid trim may do the job.

I did cut an inch and a half off back in January due to similar problems - but I hadn't discovered almond oil then! Spidermom and Barniie, I tend not to use coconut oil since I didn't react well with my hair when I first tried it (crunchy strangeness), so I may stick to almond oil for now... although it is only about 99p in Superdrug, so perhaps it's worth trying it again, four years later! Leaving a little regular conditioner in is also something I used to do, but for some reason slipped out of, so I will certainly start trying that again.

Fairlight63, I'm afraid my hair is virgin - I've never dyed it. Could well be that the velcro feeling is caused by dye damage for others, though! :)

Thanks everyone. Feels good to be coming to a decision - I'm not working on Monday so I may set aside some time to do a good self-chop, and baby the pants off it with a good oiling and SMT. I think it's simply a case of my ends being quite old at this stage - so maybe it's just time to up my game with them, and give them a little more regular babying. Baby those new ends into a longer life :)

Thanks for all your responses!

[Magicknthenight]

Maybe its the conditioner your using? Perhaps it worked at first but now is what is making your ends behave differently. Like if it has a lot of protein and at first works great but eventually leads to tangles or a weird feeling if you use it too much. Maybe its good for occasional use but not regular? I know you said you tried clarifying. Did you ever have a look at this article to see what it needs from how it was acting?

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=44

If your hair seems "bunched up", crunchy dry, brittle, snappy and you couldn't run a wide tooth comb through it to save your life, chances are your hair has had too much protein. In this case, you need moisture. (lots of it!).
If your hair seems "wadded" wirey, fragile and the ends seem transparent, and the strands themselves seem rough, you likely need protein. Try a protein pack and then moisture afterward to finish.

I'm not sure what you use or how often you change what you CO with but maybe try out a new conditioner for it before you have to cut that 2 inches. If you do end up trimming though it'll grow back in no time and your ends will probably feel much better.:) Maybe you just need to try something different. I could be wrong but at least if you trim you know you've tried every thing you could have to save your ends.

[HairColoredHair]

Velcro ends mean clarify and S&D for me. Maybe a somewhat brutal dusting could do the trick (tailbone sucks, BTW, it's just a bad length for snarls/bad ends, or at least, it was for me).

[kettle]

Thanks Magicknthenight, that's actually a good point, although I have read that article - I am a fan of egg-based treatments, so I'd suspected it could be protein-based build-up - but I've clarified twice, and moisturised the life out of it, and it's still the same. I do tend to use the same CO condish - but it's a cheapy cheap, watery, protein-free (I think at least!!) one, and I do chop and change now and then with that, and have several deep conditioners to switch between for deep treatments. Certainly more regular clarifying is the way to go after reading that article!

HairColoredHair, even though you're saying TB sucks, I'm REALLY relieved that you said that - you're now at knee so in my optimistic little head, maybe there's a way through after all :)

I think a little cut does sound like the way to go.

P.S. - I've posted more today than I have in a whole year!! I'll be quiet again now... :p

[Cailie]

I'm not at tailbone but self-trimming half my length-gain each month both gets rid of tangly damaged ends, and lets me grow a little bit while taking care of the damage. I have not yet needed to cut more than half an inch at a time. This is what Nightshade recommended in her damage article and it works.

Growing is slow doing that but at least you don't have to decide between maintaining, going forth, or doing a major chop.


I agree with this

[loralie]

I know for me, I have to use leave in conditioner, there's no way around it. If I don't, my hair tangles like crazy.

You may also want to try cones. I don't know how you feel about them, but with my fragile ends, they really help keep them from breakage and tangling. You can try a leave in serum just near the ends to keep them smooth.

[Kaijah]

So, I'm only waist-ish, but I have terminally dry hair (which seems to be a combo of natural dryness, even on the virgin bits, and extra-super-death-dryness from old straightener damage on the ends). I've had the most luck maintaining happy moisturized hair with a combo of a good leave in conditioner and shea/oil.

I generally use whatever's cheap and protein free for a cowash or CWC in the shower, but for leave in I always choose a "good" conditioner (Aubrey Organics is my first choice). I think it gives me more of the benefit of super-moisturizing ingredients at less cost than I'd end up paying when using as a regular cond. in the shower, and it has more time to sink-in long term since it's just left to soak until the next wash. It's like a mini DT after every wash.

On top of that, the shea/oil mixture I use has helped LEAPS AND BOUNDS with my dryness issues. I melted something like 8 ounces of raw shea butter with 4 or so tablespoons of coconut oil and 3 or so tablespoons of almond oil, and my hair likes them all combined even more than it liked them all separately (which was quite a bit). And I just slather this stuff on my hair - like half a teaspoon of the solid mix melted and squeezed into wet hair over the LI conditioner.

It probably sounds like a lot, but my hair has completely eaten it all up by the time it air dries.

I do have to say though, raw shea butter can feel "grabby" on wet hair depending on the type you happen to get - not exactly like it's going to cause tangles, but it doesn't feel super slick and smooth until it's all dry. It can vary from company to company, from shea plant to shea plant.

And other than my long winded babble up there... trimming at least a bit is probably necessary. That and/or lots of S&D. If you're really worried about losing length (though I did see you were thinking on snipping on Monday), maybe try just cutting a little (like another half inch) and continuing your super-babying treatments, and if that doesn't make them feel better, try trimming a little more.... but that's just what I'd do 'cause I'm a wuss. :cool:

[kettle]

I've completely failed to consider cones, or a proper leave-in conditioner, although I do use one now and then - the only one I have at the moment is a possibly quite out of date A'kin one. I just googled the Aubrey Organics one and it looks like it is available in the UK, so I'l have a look for it...

I think I've got to make a new hair-care plan, and trim according to that. I do think it might be possible to give cones a try; I used them for years before coming here, with no issues, and only stopped due to my desire not to shampoo. But now I have a good clarifying shampoo, and know the signs of build-up, I think I could see how they go.

I've used shea before, but let it go off before I finished it, and did find it a little difficult to use. I may look into getting a little bit online, and see how I go with it.

Don't want to try too much at once, but I really do appreciate all your suggestions - I'm liking the "half-an inch" suggestion more than the 2 inch one right now! :P What I'm feeling I might do is cut an half and inch to an inch, and baby what's left, and see how it feels.

I may now try to stop typing about it, and let you know what happens on Monday.

Thanks again for everyone's help, it really is appreciated! :flower:

[Calista]

Kettle, I don´t know if you have Spinnrad stores in the UK. They are a German chain that sells ingredients and accessories for making your own cosmetics. In Germany some drugstores/apothecaries also carry Spinnrad products. They sell refined sheabutter (http://www.spinnrad.de/shop/products/Kosmetik/Kosmetik-zum-Selbermachen/Konsistenzgeber-Wachse/Sheabutter-50-g.html?cat=c1&curcat=353&), which IME is much easier to handle than the unrefined variety. Refined sheabutter is softer and a bit grainy and spreads quite well. It is also odourless, which may be an advantage to some and a disappointment to those who love the scent of sheabutter. A 50g tub costs 3,30 € at Spinnrad directly and about the same in German apothecaries. They sell for as much as 6,15 € on Amazon. My hair also loves sheabutter, as does my skin, and I have had good success with this product - I also use it on my face in winter.

[Cleopatra18]

wow great thread! my last length check in march my hair was hip(ish) and my ends are horrible as well despite a 2+ inches trim in january,I have layers too which makes my ends more fragile but all these tips are so helpful!
spidermom,you're making me want to cut my ends as you did lol,it sounds your hair is doing so much better.

[Anje]

I've gotten dry tangles on the ends that trimming didn't fix, and for me it's generally either protein or silicone buildup. (My ends like silicone for about 2 days, then turn into velcro. No more of that stuff for them.) For proteins, look for anything that says protein (duh), amino acids, or hydrolyzed __. Repeated SMTs for several days are what fix over-proteining for me.

BTW, my hair adores sesame oil (over jojoba, coconut, grapeseed, and olive. Haven't tried almond yet.) I know there are a million favorite oils out there, but I thought I'd toss out another one if you feel like smearing more on your ends.

[Athena's Owl]

I know that when I started paying attention to my hair again, i had this exact same thing going on. I was at tailbone, but the last 2-3 inches on my ends were just awful.

I spent some time doing S&D and babying it along but when the weather warmed up, I took to setting my hair to curl in clumps, and then when it was dry I would look at the ends of individual curls, and trim back to where the curl was still holding together.

It's looking much nicer now. I think you should probably just bite the bullet and do the trim. summer is here, growth rate is generally accelerated, and two inches off tailbone length is still hip/iliac.

[kettle]

Right: I have actually taken the plunge a couple of days early, and trimmed just over an inch and a half off this afternoon. In the end I just judged how much needed to go by the point at which it began to feel rough. They already feel better - so much easier to get a comb through! - though I'm now not quite sure I cut quite enough. I may follow Nightshade's idea of trimming half the length for a little while.

I've also ordered some whipped unrefined shea from ebay. Calista, I looked into the refined shea, it seems we don't have a version of Spinnrad here. The only thing that swung me was concern over how well it might work with Fox's Shea Butter Cream, which I'm rather anxious to try out; I may well purchase some refined shea at a later date, depending how the whipped version goes! Hopefully it'll be a bit easier to handle.

I have a shopping list for Monday. Sesame oil and some new leave-in (most likely A'kin again) are on it, as well as a GOOD, no expense spared (within reason! Pay day isn't until next Friday and I just bought flexi-8s :)) deep conditioner.

Thank you everyone for your advice. Here's to making these ends last a little longer... :pray:

[Sissy]

Spidermom and Barniie, I tend not to use coconut oil since I didn't react well with my hair when I first tried it (crunchy strangeness), so I may stick to almond oil for now... although it is only about 99p in Superdrug, so perhaps it's worth trying it again, four years later!

In my honest opinion, the 99p Superdrug Coconut Oil is no good. I used it before, but I have since switched to cold-pressed organic coconut oil and it's heavenly. I would def. give some organic, cold-pressed coconut oil (the kind that's made for cooking and eating and actually smells like coconut) a try... that Superdrug stuff is not as good and doesn't even smell like coconut.

[ravenreed]

The longer my hair gets the drier the ends get. I find that my hair feels best root and tip if I CO every other day. The middle is always fine. Now if I could just get the roots to be less oily and the ends to be more oily, all would be great.

[Cupofmilk]

I would chop the damage plus 1 inch off. Then oil daily. It will grow back fast.

I was tb/classic when I chopped and I had 6 inches of dry tangled ends. I was so annoyed at this point I cut 15-18 inches off. Which was silly. I should have chopped 6-8 inches off - and I would start the love affair with long hair again without having to regrow most of it. The reason for the extra inch is that personally I find that the bot of hair baove the damage may look ok but often a bit of damage has already occured which you cannot see yet. If that makes sense.

[SHADOWSCODE46]

Unlike everyone recommending you to chop, I haven't seen a photograph of your ends to assume this would be the fix all. This isn't to say that a good trim isn't necessary; especially if they ends LOOK as they feel.

Are you sure it's not a porosity issue? We all know the hair at the ends is the oldest and most fragile, but when you rinse your hair do you make sure all product is rinsed out even from the very ends? Sometimes product will rinse clean from the roots and mid length of the hair and sort of settle at the ends, especially if your hair is significant in length and you air dry. It's always good to gather your hair mid length and bring it forward towards the shower stream so it gets a good rinsing as well.... all the while smoothing gently in a downward stroke to aide product residue from the hair.

I'd recommend a good clarify (however you choose to do so) and then a good silicone free conditioning followed by a sealant (an oil of your choice). I think heavy oils/butters should be reserved for the ends as they need more help in that dept. And you can keep it light throughout the rest of the hair (Ex. shea butter for the ends and coconut oil for the rest of the hair). Being that you've already done a bit of a trim, I'm sure these steps will ensure your ends will be feeling back to 'norman'.