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violeteyes
May 31st, 2010, 02:11 PM
I've heard so many times how hair can get dry/brittle/tangled with the overuse of protein. But my hair seems to do the opposite- it gets this way if I don't use protein on a regular basis. In fact, before I stopped using cones, I used a pureology leave in that had quite a few different proteins in it and my hair loved it. Then, when I cut it out, my hair became very frizzy and dry, until I started using vo5 moisture milks with soy protein. I did not even notice until last week, when I ran out of the conditioner and my hair got dry and more tangly within only a few days with a no-protein conditioner. Do any of you have this "problem"?

Aliped
May 31st, 2010, 02:23 PM
Hi Violeteyes,
My favorite conditioner contains hydrolyzed wheat protein, hydrolyzed soy protein and hydrolyzed corn protein. Its a 1L bottle, so it's been a while since I tried anything different. I hope I can find this brand again, when I need to replace it. Its Back to basics vanilla plum fortifying conditioner. It also has cones, parabens and alcohol in it .... so it's probably not the best conditioner, but I like it!

violeteyes
May 31st, 2010, 03:36 PM
For me, going no-cone and getting rid of all "bad" alcohol products has been....kind of like trial and error. It's good to know that someone else uses protein as much as I do though :D

Fractalsofhair
May 31st, 2010, 03:43 PM
My hair is the same way, it loves protein!

sibiryachka
May 31st, 2010, 05:17 PM
I've never quite been clear - how does one tell whether one's hair likes protein or not? I'm pretty sure mine doesn't sorely need it, but what "symptoms" would my hair be having if it did? On the flip side, what happens when one gets too much, or if even the smallest amount is too much?

anniemae
May 31st, 2010, 05:36 PM
Hi,

Here is some good info that I found about proteins:

"The amount of protein you need or may not need depends on your hair type. If you have fine hair, then you will do well with protein. If you have coarse hair, then you should avoid proteins. If you have damaged hair, then protein can help to repair the damage. If your wet hair is extremely stretchy and elastic, then you need protein."

**** But, always do a deep moisturizing treatment after you do a protein treatment".

Here is some other info:

FINE HAIR
Needs protein
No humectants
No emollients
Color takes faster


COARSE HAIR
Needs no protein
Needs humectants
Needs emollients
Needs acidic treatments (ACV rinses)
Color takes slower

LOW ELASTICITY
Needs no protein
Needs moisture

LOW POROSITY
Repels water, color, and products
Needs moisture
Needs humectants
Needs no protein
Color fades slowly
Color takes slower
(when testing - feels slick)

NORMAL POROSITY
Absorbs and retains water and products
Needs occasional protein
Keep a balance between moisture and protein
(when testing - feels smooth)

HIGH POROSITY
Overly absorbs water, color, and products
Needs moisture
Need emollients
Needs protein
Color fades fast
Color takes quickly
Dry, fragile, brittle
Do not use soap bars
Needs ACV rinses
Use gels, oils, and butters
(Caused by heat damage, hard water/chlorine saturation, using harsh ingredients)
(when testing - feels ruffled)

spidermom
May 31st, 2010, 08:53 PM
I should check my products a little more closely. One conditioner is so-so; leaves my hair kind of tangly. The other one is AWESOME; leaves my hair smooth and silky and easy to comb. I think the first one has protein and the second one doesn't.

I never tested my hair for porosity, either.

sibiryachka
June 1st, 2010, 09:15 AM
Hi,

Here is some good info that I found about proteins:

"The amount of protein you need or may not need depends on your hair type. If you have fine hair, then you will do well with protein. If you have coarse hair, then you should avoid proteins. If you have damaged hair, then protein can help to repair the damage. If your wet hair is extremely stretchy and elastic, then you need protein. If your hair is strawlike, brittle and breaks for no reason, then you need to avoid protein".

Here is some other info:

FINE HAIR
Needs protein
No humectants
No emollients
Color takes faster


COARSE HAIR
Needs no protein
Needs humectants
Needs emollients
Needs acidic treatments (ACV rinses)
Color takes slower

LOW ELASTICITY
Needs no protein
Needs moisture

LOW POROSITY
Repels water, color, and products
Needs moisture
Needs humectants
Needs no protein
Color fades slowly
Color takes slower
(when testing - feels slick)

NORMAL POROSITY
Absorbs and retains water and products
Needs occasional protein
(when testing - feels smooth)

HIGH POROSITY
Overly absorbs water, color, and products
Needs moisture
Need emollients
Needs protein
Color fades fast
Color takes quickly
Dry, fragile, brittle
Do not use soap bars
(Caused by heat damage, hard water/chlorine saturation, using harsh ingredients)
(when testing - feels ruffled)

Super helpful and concise - thank you so much, anniemae!

anniemae
June 1st, 2010, 09:22 AM
You're very welcome, sibiryachka. :)

A lot of this info is still a little confusing to me, but it's nice to have it all in one place.

Athena's Owl
June 1st, 2010, 09:32 AM
What anniemae found is *exactly* what i was going to say in my comment.

it's not that protein is bad. it's that certain hair types don't need protein, others do quite well with it.

Fine hair likes protein, but low porosity fine hair doesnt. stuff like that.

bkitty09
July 7th, 2010, 07:20 PM
My hair tangles so much less now that I'm using a shampoo and conditioner with cones and protein.

Anje
July 7th, 2010, 07:47 PM
Unfortunately, what anniemae posted isn't true of my hair. I haven't checked my porosity, but my fine hair loves humectants and hates protein with a passion. Exceptions to every rule, I suppose.... But for lots of folks, protein helps their hair absorb moisture, or something like that. It's definitely worth using if your hair likes it, but it's like silicones: useful for some, problematic for others.

Igor
July 7th, 2010, 07:52 PM
I have a theory that the more damaged hair is, the more protein it “can take”. Protein is found in a lot of “reconstructors” etc aimed for damaged hair and my hair hated protein until around waist and it had been worn and damaged for years :shrug: But I have no scientific explanation

Kristin
July 7th, 2010, 07:53 PM
I've never tested my porosity, either, but my fine hair likes moisture and humectants and hates protein as well. How do you check porosity?

Dragon
July 7th, 2010, 07:54 PM
My hair love protein in my shampoo and conditioner. It doesent like me over eating protein and under eating it.

Beesweet
July 7th, 2010, 08:08 PM
If you use protein and your hair doesn't take to it, does it permanently damage it?

I just bought Aubry Organics protein shampoo and conditioner.

I have no idea if my hair will like it or not, but it is already on the dry side where it is damaged from old hair color, and normal where the hair is virgin.

I am afraid to use it...should I be?

christine1989
July 7th, 2010, 08:18 PM
@ anniemae: Thanks for the terrific chart! It sure explains why my corse hair acts the way it does with certian products. Very enlightening indeed! :)

x0h_bother
July 7th, 2010, 08:33 PM
I have a theory that the more damaged hair is, the more protein it “can take”. Protein is found in a lot of “reconstructors” etc aimed for damaged hair and my hair hated protein until around waist and it had been worn and damaged for years :shrug: But I have no scientific explanation
Took the words right out of my reply Igor, I have damage and my hair loves protein.

If you use protein and your hair doesn't take to it, does it permanently damage it?

I just bought Aubry Organics protein shampoo and conditioner.

I have no idea if my hair will like it or not, but it is already on the dry side where it is damaged from old hair color, and normal where the hair is virgin.

I am afraid to use it...should I be?

I don't think protein will damage your hair, Beesweet, the worst I have heard is from overusage of protein tretments (causing breakage) but not from first time testing. If your hair does not like protein it will become dry feeling, but I think that should go away once you stop using it. Here is an article http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=17
x0

anniemae
July 7th, 2010, 08:35 PM
Unfortunately, what anniemae posted isn't true of my hair. I haven't checked my porosity, but my fine hair loves humectants and hates protein with a passion. Exceptions to every rule, I suppose.... But for lots of folks, protein helps their hair absorb moisture, or something like that. It's definitely worth using if your hair likes it, but it's like silicones: useful for some, problematic for others.

You're right - I guess there are definitely exceptions. Also, your hair may not like certain proteins, but like others. There are different kinds of protein (silk amino acids, keratin, oat, wheat, soy, etc.), and sometimes your hair may not like certain ones. Also, make sure that you do a deep moisturizing/conditioning treatment after each protein treatment!! Very important to prevent breakage!!



@ anniemae: Thanks for the terrific chart! It sure explains why my corse hair acts the way it does with certian products. Very enlightening indeed! :)

Glad the chart helped!!

anniemae
July 7th, 2010, 08:38 PM
If you use protein and your hair doesn't take to it, does it permanently damage it?

I just bought Aubry Organics protein shampoo and conditioner.

I have no idea if my hair will like it or not, but it is already on the dry side where it is damaged from old hair color, and normal where the hair is virgin.

I am afraid to use it...should I be?

I'm not sure either. But, make sure that you do a deep moisturizing/conditioning treatment after each protein treatment. This is very important!!

anniemae
July 7th, 2010, 08:42 PM
I've never tested my porosity, either, but my fine hair likes moisture and humectants and hates protein as well. How do you check porosity?

Here is how to check porosity:

Porosity -
1. Your hair soaks up water easily. Your hair dries quickly. Your hair absorbs hair dye quicker than the time indicated on the box. When you run your finger along a strand of hair from end to root, it is bumpy. = porous hair.
Porous hair can use some protein. You also have to figure out a way to keep moisture in your hair because while it absorbs moisture readily, it also loses it quickly. But also if your hair soaks up too much moisture it will be poofy and lack definition. With porous hair you have to be very careful about the amount of humectant products used and pay careful attention to dewpoints. You also have to seal in the moisture you put in. A lot of porous hair curlies do ACV rinses, use hard hold gels or emolients like oils and butters to seal in moisture.

2. Your hair takes a long time to soak up water, long time to dry, takes longer time to dye. When you run your finger up the strand it is silky smooth. = low porosity.
Low porosity hair has too much protein so you want to avoid it. You also have to figure out how to get moisture into your hair by maybe using humectants (in the right dewpoints) or moisturizing products.

3. Anything else is probably normal porosity. You can use about any product your want. But make sure to keep a balance between moisture and protein levels.

Lunarennui
July 8th, 2010, 01:16 AM
Hi,

Here is some good info that I found about proteins:

"The amount of protein you need or may not need depends on your hair type. If you have fine hair, then you will do well with protein. If you have coarse hair, then you should avoid proteins. If you have damaged hair, then protein can help to repair the damage. If your wet hair is extremely stretchy and elastic, then you need protein. If your hair is strawlike, brittle and breaks for no reason, then you need to avoid protein".

Here is some other info:

FINE HAIR
Needs protein
No humectants
No emollients
Color takes faster


COARSE HAIR
Needs no protein
Needs humectants
Needs emollients
Needs acidic treatments (ACV rinses)
Color takes slower

LOW ELASTICITY
Needs no protein
Needs moisture

LOW POROSITY
Repels water, color, and products
Needs moisture
Needs humectants
Needs no protein
Color fades slowly
Color takes slower
(when testing - feels slick)

NORMAL POROSITY
Absorbs and retains water and products
Needs occasional protein
Keep a balance between moisture and protein
(when testing - feels smooth)

HIGH POROSITY
Overly absorbs water, color, and products
Needs moisture
Need emollients
Needs protein
Color fades fast
Color takes quickly
Dry, fragile, brittle
Do not use soap bars
Needs ACV rinses
Use gels, oils, and butters
(Caused by heat damage, hard water/chlorine saturation, using harsh ingredients)
(when testing - feels ruffled)

I'm going to jump in and agree with others--thanks so much for the information!

swellmel
July 8th, 2010, 01:34 AM
I've heard so many times how hair can get dry/brittle/tangled with the overuse of protein. But my hair seems to do the opposite- it gets this way if I don't use protein on a regular basis. In fact, before I stopped using cones, I used a pureology leave in that had quite a few different proteins in it and my hair loved it. Then, when I cut it out, my hair became very frizzy and dry, until I started using vo5 moisture milks with soy protein. I did not even notice until last week, when I ran out of the conditioner and my hair got dry and more tangly within only a few days with a no-protein conditioner. Do any of you have this "problem"?

i have recently discovered this same thing. i was trying to address my dry, brittle ends with oils and moisturizing conditioners with not much success and it hadn't occured to me to try protein conditioners. i started using the sally's generic brand of joico k-pac and wow! it's like night and day with my hair. my hair feels sooo much softer and healthier.

littlenvy
July 8th, 2010, 07:46 AM
Question, I'm not sure about my hair (never looked, tested or knew about protein before I joined this board) but my skin really hates wheat proteins ..ie oat anything. It dries up and itches like crazy.
Could this be an indication that my hair will hate it too?

Beesweet
July 8th, 2010, 07:54 AM
This is a good thread! I did my protein last night -- my hair loved, loved, loved it....even though it is coarse and thick and wavy.

I may have used protein "lite" though -- it was Aubry Organics Balancing GPB glycogen protein shampoo and conditioner -- rosemary peppermint.

Aubry says it is one of their most popular products.
My hair feels awesome today.

I also usually don't shampoo, but I have been since it is so hot lately, and I have really been working out. This shampoo did not dry my hair out, though I am confused -- I didn't know shampoos had protein.

anniemae
July 8th, 2010, 08:26 AM
Question, I'm not sure about my hair (never looked, tested or knew about protein before I joined this board) but my skin really hates wheat proteins ..ie oat anything. It dries up and itches like crazy.
Could this be an indication that my hair will hate it too?

It could be an indication, but I'm not sure. The only way to know is to try it. But, there are plenty of other proteins out there that you can try, too. Good luck!!


This is a good thread! I did my protein last night -- my hair loved, loved, loved it....even though it is coarse and thick and wavy.

I may have used protein "lite" though -- it was Aubry Organics Balancing GPB glycogen protein shampoo and conditioner -- rosemary peppermint.

Aubry says it is one of their most popular products.
My hair feels awesome today.

I also usually don't shampoo, but I have been since it is so hot lately, and I have really been working out. This shampoo did not dry my hair out, though I am confused -- I didn't know shampoos had protein.

I think that when shampoos contain protein, it's not really as "potent" as a protein treatment, but it's still good. Yes, many shampoos contain proteins, but if the protein is at the end of the ingredient list, then it probably doesn't contain it in high amounts.

Velouria
July 8th, 2010, 10:13 PM
My hair reacts like the OP; if I go a brief while without using protein-containing products, my hair suffers. And like her, my hair exhibits, not mushiness or strechiness (which is supposed to indicate a need for protein), but rather dry velcro ends, tangling, and increased breakage....all of which supposedly indicate a protein-overload! I reiterate, this is what happens when I don't use protein.


Hi,

Here is some good info that I found about proteins:

"The amount of protein you need or may not need depends on your hair type. If you have fine hair, then you will do well with protein. If you have coarse hair, then you should avoid proteins. If you have damaged hair, then protein can help to repair the damage. If your wet hair is extremely stretchy and elastic, then you need protein. If your hair is strawlike, brittle and breaks for no reason, then you need to avoid protein.

**** But, always do a deep moisturizing treatment after you do a protein treatment".

Here is some other info:

FINE HAIR
Needs protein
No humectants
No emollients
Color takes faster


COARSE HAIR
Needs no protein
Needs humectants
Needs emollients
Needs acidic treatments (ACV rinses)
Color takes slower

LOW ELASTICITY
Needs no protein
Needs moisture

LOW POROSITY
Repels water, color, and products
Needs moisture
Needs humectants
Needs no protein
Color fades slowly
Color takes slower
(when testing - feels slick)

NORMAL POROSITY
Absorbs and retains water and products
Needs occasional protein
Keep a balance between moisture and protein
(when testing - feels smooth)

HIGH POROSITY
Overly absorbs water, color, and products
Needs moisture
Need emollients
Needs protein
Color fades fast
Color takes quickly
Dry, fragile, brittle
Do not use soap bars
Needs ACV rinses
Use gels, oils, and butters
(Caused by heat damage, hard water/chlorine saturation, using harsh ingredients)
(when testing - feels ruffled)

I highlighted a couple of contradictory statements above, namely...those with strawlike, brittle and breakage-prone hair should avoid protein vs. ....those with high porosity have dry, fragile, brittle hair and they need protein.... Huh?!

All in all, I have to say that I think protein gets an undeserved bad rap around here, and that the standard advice given to diagnose a supposed protein-overload does not fit my experience, and seems rather nonsensical.

emsahib
July 8th, 2010, 11:58 PM
Here is how to check porosity:

Porosity -
1. Your hair soaks up water easily. Your hair dries quickly. Your hair absorbs hair dye quicker than the time indicated on the box. When you run your finger along a strand of hair from end to root, it is bumpy. = porous hair.
Porous hair can use some protein. You also have to figure out a way to keep moisture in your hair because while it absorbs moisture readily, it also loses it quickly. But also if your hair soaks up too much moisture it will be poofy and lack definition. With porous hair you have to be very careful about the amount of humectant products used and pay careful attention to dewpoints. You also have to seal in the moisture you put in. A lot of porous hair curlies do ACV rinses, use hard hold gels or emolients like oils and butters to seal in moisture.

2. Your hair takes a long time to soak up water, long time to dry, takes longer time to dye. When you run your finger up the strand it is silky smooth. = low porosity.
Low porosity hair has too much protein so you want to avoid it. You also have to figure out how to get moisture into your hair by maybe using humectants (in the right dewpoints) or moisturizing products.

3. Anything else is probably normal porosity. You can use about any product your want. But make sure to keep a balance between moisture and protein levels.

My hair is definatly porosity. I tried dying it a dark brown once was meant to leave it on for 30 mins but went black in ten mins! I've used started using something with a vegetable protein in it actually. But my question is what does the protein actually do?? Oh and great post!

anniemae
July 9th, 2010, 01:50 AM
My hair is definatly porosity. I tried dying it a dark brown once was meant to leave it on for 30 mins but went black in ten mins! I've used started using something with a vegetable protein in it actually. But my question is what does the protein actually do?? Oh and great post!
Here is an article about what proteins do:

http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curly-q-a/curlchemist-all-about-proteins

I also found this information about proteins from Page 2 of this site : http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/375435/hair_porosity_help_for_dry_damaged_pg2.html?cat=69

"The best , and perhaps easiest, way to patch up damaged cuticle layers is simply through light protein conditioning. Protein fills in gaps, binds to damaged places, and mends individual exterior scales along the cuticle. Regular protein conditioning improves the hair's porosity by reinforcing the cuticle layers and allowing the hair shaft to better hold on to the moisture it is given. You don't want to get too excited with the protein though because this can make the hair even drier."

anniemae
July 9th, 2010, 05:45 AM
My hair reacts like the OP; if I go a brief while without using protein-containing products, my hair suffers. And like her, my hair exhibits, not mushiness or strechiness (which is supposed to indicate a need for protein), but rather dry velcro ends, tangling, and increased breakage....all of which supposedly indicate a protein-overload! I reiterate, this is what happens when I don't use protein.



I highlighted a couple of contradictory statements above, namely...those with strawlike, brittle and breakage-prone hair should avoid protein vs. ....those with high porosity have dry, fragile, brittle hair and they need protein.... Huh?!

All in all, I have to say that I think protein gets an undeserved bad rap around here, and that the standard advice given to diagnose a supposed protein-overload does not fit my experience, and seems rather nonsensical.
Velouria -
I'm confused as well. :confused: I've only read and copied this material, so I don't know how accurate it is. And I guess there are exceptions to it. I'm pretty sure I've read that highly porous hair tends to feel dry and parched. (stated in this article - )
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/375435/hair_porosity_help_for_dry_damaged_pg2.html?cat=69

I've been trying now for a few hours to find information on whether or not dry/strawlike hair needs protein. I'm not sure, so I will go back and update my original post and take out the section on those with strawlike, brittle and breakage-prone hair should avoid protein.

Velouria
July 9th, 2010, 11:46 AM
Velouria -
I'm confused as well. :confused: I've only read and copied this material, so I don't know how accurate it is. And I guess there are exceptions to it. I'm pretty sure I've read that highly porous hair tends to feel dry and parched. (stated in this article - )
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/375435/hair_porosity_help_for_dry_damaged_pg2.html?cat=69

I've been trying now for a few hours to find information on whether or not dry/strawlike hair needs protein. I'm not sure, so I will go back and update my original post and take out the section on those with strawlike, brittle and breakage-prone hair should avoid protein.

Yes, I'd read a lot of the info on determining whether your hair needs protein or moisture (and noted the contradictions in it) before you posted that, so I knew that the contradictions weren't your mistake.

My hair seems to refute all of those criteria, so yes, there are definitely exceptions. I'd say that anyone concerned about whether their hair needs or hates externally applied protein should try a period of time with, and without protein...that's the only way to know for sure.

That's what I had to do. I avoided protein for awhile after, through reading, I learned that my hair difficulties matched the description of a "protein overload" or "protein sensitivity." But my hair only got worse, and improved after going back to using protein.

anniemae
July 9th, 2010, 12:00 PM
Yes, I'd read a lot of the info on determining whether your hair needs protein or moisture (and noted the contradictions in it) before you posted that, so I knew that the contradictions weren't your mistake.

My hair seems to refute all of those criteria, so yes, there are definitely exceptions. I'd say that anyone concerned about whether their hair needs or hates externally applied protein should try a period of time with, and without protein...that's the only way to know for sure.

That's what I had to do. I avoided protein for awhile after, through reading, I learned that my hair difficulties matched the description of a "protein overload" or "protein sensitivity." But my hair only got worse, and improved after going back to using protein.

Yes, it's so confusing. I'm still not sure if my hair LOVES protein or not. I have fine hair (which supposedly needs protein), low elasticity (which supposedly doesn't need protein), normal porosity (which supposedly can use occasional protein). So what do I do? Also, I think that my hair does better with certain proteins and not others. :undecided:ponder: I usually do an occasional PT.

Who knows?

HopelssRomantic
July 15th, 2018, 10:52 AM
Hi,

Here is some good info that I found about proteins:

"The amount of protein you need or may not need depends on your hair type. If you have fine hair, then you will do well with protein. If you have coarse hair, then you should avoid proteins. If you have damaged hair, then protein can help to repair the damage. If your wet hair is extremely stretchy and elastic, then you need protein."

**** But, always do a deep moisturizing treatment after you do a protein treatment".

Here is some other info:

FINE HAIR
Needs protein
No humectants
No emollients
Color takes faster


COARSE HAIR
Needs no protein
Needs humectants
Needs emollients
Needs acidic treatments (ACV rinses)
Color takes slower

LOW ELASTICITY
Needs no protein
Needs moisture

LOW POROSITY
Repels water, color, and products
Needs moisture
Needs humectants
Needs no protein
Color fades slowly
Color takes slower
(when testing - feels slick)

NORMAL POROSITY
Absorbs and retains water and products
Needs occasional protein
Keep a balance between moisture and protein
(when testing - feels smooth)

HIGH POROSITY
Overly absorbs water, color, and products
Needs moisture
Need emollients
Needs protein
Color fades fast
Color takes quickly
Dry, fragile, brittle
Do not use soap bars
Needs ACV rinses
Use gels, oils, and butters
(Caused by heat damage, hard water/chlorine saturation, using harsh ingredients)
(when testing - feels ruffled)

This is by far, some of the most helpfully concise info I've seen on this site about proteins! Thank you!