removing old chemical dyes without bleach

[jackie75]

I'm not sure if this is the right forum to ask this, so forgive me mods. :o

This is kinda long, but I'm in desperate need of advice from people who have BTDT.

Anyways, for approximately 11 years, I have used boxed dyes to cover my whites/grays. I always had issues with red tones in my hair. so, about a year ago, I bleached my hair three times to start over & used an ash color that worked pretty well. Along with all that, I used a flat iron. Needless to say, I had to cut my BSL hair into a bob last spring because of so much damage.

After that, I used Surya hair dye a few times, which is henna extract, so I'm not sure if that counts as real henna. I also used various semi-permanent dyes & permanent. Again, the red tones are back.

The last dye I used was about maybe a month ago, or maybe even two. My memory is horrible.

My currant color is a reddish somewhat dark brown, but darker on the ends. My roots are hard to tell, because all I see is gray, & they are about an inch long.

I'm not even sure what my natural color is anymore! I know it used to be brown, with darker blond ends & sides. I uploaded some pics of my natural color in my photo album, to give you an idea of what it's normally looks like.

So, I'm trying to lighten my too dark hair without bleaching or peroxide. I looked into color oops, & color zap, but I'm hesitant on using them. I don't want to have to dye my hair again afterward, since I will no longer buy any box dye.

I want to hear your guy's experiences of lightening hair & stripping away as much dye as possible.

I have done a honey lightening twice so far, & plan on doing more. I've done EVOO soaks, used no cone clarifying shampoos, & last Saturday I did a baby shampoo/baking soda wash. Man, my hair is still recovering from that one!

My goal is to get my dark reddish brown light as possible, & start off with dyed release cassia to see if that works on grays. If cassia works on my grays, that would be terrific. If not, I'm going to try small amounts of Henna with amla & buxus. I want to go back to my natural color (close as possible anyway) & never touch boxed dye again.

In the mean time, I could really use some help on stripping all this dye without doing drastic measures.

When it comes to using oil to strip, is coconut oil better at this than EVOO?

Any help would be so appreciated. Sorry if this is long, but I was in tears the other night....wishing I never touched those evil boxes to cover gray to begin with.

Thanks so much for any help. I learned so much from being here. :grouphug:

[lemonmelon]

Sorry to hear about your troubles! I'm sort of in the same boat as I dyed my normally ashy blond hair dark brown a few months ago and am now a faded red/brown colour. The red tones seem to have stained my light hair and are very slow to lighten.

I'd be interested to hear if anyone has a non-bleach solution to removing them. For now, I'm just using good old patience until it grows and lightens. Perhaps continuing with honey lightening will speed up the process and keep damage to a minimum. Personally, I'd rather have multicoloured hair that is healthy and shiny then a nicely coloured but fully fried head of hair.

[jackie75]

Thanks lemonmelon! I agree, I'm not doing anything else to my hair that damages it. It might look goofy growing out, but I want it to be healthy!

I have noticed a lot of growth since I stopped using all those conventional products (poison). My shedding is dramatically lessened, & I can't believe all the curls I have! :)

[klcqtee]

I'd say your best bet is probably to do some hot oil soaks (I've heard those help), spend some time in the sun, and just patiently wait it out. I'm in the same boat as you, so you may want to check out the growing out support thread, it's helped me: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=24075

ETA: Now that I think of it, if your hair has been dyed recently enough (I'm not sure how recently), you can pull out the hair dye by washing with dawn liquid dish soap. I don't know if the brand is special, as I've never tried it, just passing on the information.

[spidermom]

No personal experience, but from what I've read here, products like Color Oops are not bleach and not in and of themselves harmful.

[jackie75]

Thanks klcqtee!

I'm going to add Dawn to my shopping list. The last dye I used was a permanent one approximately 4 or 6 weeks ago. My memory is so bad recently.

Is one oil better than an other, for example, EVOO vs coconut?

I was thinking since coconut oil penetrates well, it would work better, but then there's the mild peroxide value of EVOO, but that would probably be destroyed by heating it.

Thanks for the link, I'm going to check it out. :)

spidermom, yea I've done some reading on color oops, & others. I'm afraid I'll end up with orange hair, or afraid it will work great, but my roots will be much lighter. I'm doubtful that it will knock my shade down two or three levels without getting orange. I know strand tests are strongly suggested, but I honestly don't know how I could do that when I want to test my roots as well. My grays are on my crown, & I would have to yank out some strands to do it (shudder).

So what's the deal with head & shoulders? I came across that too while searching. I wonder how well that works. Oh, & I also heard about original Prell, but I can't find it anywhere.

I did use Neutragena also. Anyone heard of that working too?

My next honey lightening is planned for Saturday. If you pray, pray for miraculous results, or send some major lightening vibes this way, lol!

[GRU]

Do an apple cider vinegar rinse to help your hair recover from the baking soda. Baking soda is around a 9 on the pH scale, as I recall, and ACV is around 3-4. Your hair prefers a more acidic environment, so baking soda washes are REALLY rough if you don't go back to the acidic end of the pH scale afterward.

Also, check out the cinnamon thread (the whole thing, not just the first post) for other lightening ideas: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=2125

[UltraBella]

Three weeks ago I was in this same boat as you. I had dyed my hair with the same copper red demi-color for over five years. My natural color is a dark ash blonde. I just couldn't take the regrowth showing so quickly and decided I wanted to work my way back to a more natural shade. Instead of trying 20 different things, I decided to use bleach to lift my red and then deposited a shade close to my natural color over it. I achieved this with foils, and I did approximately 2/3 of my head. So I still have some copper, but my roots blend in much much better and the grow out will not be so awful.
My hair is still in really good shape, and I do not regret the process.
Please let me know if any of the alternatives to bleach end up working for you !

[manderly]

Color Oops and Colorfix are not bleach. They do not turn your hair orange. The orange is actually from the old box dyes.

The color removers swell up the color molecules so they can be removed from the hair shaft. What you're left seeing is the old bleach damage from the box color. They will not affect the color of virgin hair.

It is generally recommended to re-dye using a gentler color after doing so.

I understand you not wanting to color again, and you want to go with your natural color.

As someone with experience doing this (removing old color and rehabbing back to naturalish shade) I'd recommend the following (I've had excellent results, very natural, no damage):

Color Oops/ColorFix
Demi permanent dye (I recomment Wella Color Touch with the lowest vol developer or Sallys Ion Shine with the lowest vol developer)

The lowest vol developer essentially makes the color a deposit only...it swells the hair shaft just enough to allow the color to get in there, but it doesn't damage or bleach any further. You can only go same color or darker using a low vol developer.

Once you dye back to your original color, you may have to repeat the process a couple more times over some time because your hair may be porous and will fade to orangish.

I've been doing this for about 2 years now, and I find that I get hardly any fading at all, no demarcation line, and my ends barely show any orange (like they did when box dye faded). My hair also doesn't have any kind of damage from the repeat demi-permanents :)

HTH.

[jackie75]

I'm scared I'll screw up getting the right color though to do after. Also, I'm intimidated with the wella stuff...all the mixing & all.

Wouldn't I need to go with a lighter color than my natural to achieve the right color?

Also, I don't even know for sure what tone my virgin hair is anymore. I thought for years it was ash, but from my old pics, I have blond also in my brown hair. So that would be a gold tone, correct? Warm would be red, & I don't have red. I do have a pic of me when I was about three years old, & my hair looks kind of red...but at 5, I had blond! I'm so darn confused, lol!

I'm thinking of the future with this hair change. I really hope I can get cassia to stain my whites a goldish tone. The last treatment I used was the "cassia a" (can't find the right word now) but it didn't work, maybe I needed to leave it on longer. I just bought some "Cassia o" hoping it will work better. I don't want to worry about my roots anymore, & if cassia will work, then I'm set. Well, until I can get my hair lighter that is.

So, I'm still looking into all these options. In the mean time, I want my hair to lighten, & grow my roots out longer so I can see my real hair.

But in all honesty, I'm sick of any hair coloring & doing my roots. Now, henna would be different, since I've read about so many health benefits to hair. Yea, I know it's red, but if all else fails, I can mix up something very light (no indigo) with buxus, amla & just do buxus glosses on top of that. Too bad you need the henna for buxus to grab onto. Then again, I'm scared of Henna too & that red!! Aaack!

I hate things that are so complicated. Sorry I'm so long winded again. I just really need to talk to you guys since going no box dye is a big change for me.

[manderly]

I'm scared I'll screw up getting the right color though to do after. Also, I'm intimidated with the wella stuff...all the mixing & all.

Wouldn't I need to go with a lighter color than my natural to achieve the right color?

Also, I don't even know for sure what tone my virgin hair is anymore. I thought for years it was ash, but from my old pics, I have blond also in my brown hair. So that would be a gold tone, correct? Warm would be red, & I don't have red. I do have a pic of me when I was about three years old, & my hair looks kind of red...but at 5, I had blond! I'm so darn confused, lol!

I'm thinking of the future with this hair change. I really hope I can get cassia to stain my whites a goldish tone. The last treatment I used was the "cassia a" (can't find the right word now) but it didn't work, maybe I needed to leave it on longer. I just bought some "Cassia o" hoping it will work better. I don't want to worry about my roots anymore, & if cassia will work, then I'm set. Well, until I can get my hair lighter that is.

So, I'm still looking into all these options. In the mean time, I want my hair to lighten, & grow my roots out longer so I can see my real hair.

But in all honesty, I'm sick of any hair coloring & doing my roots. Now, henna would be different, since I've read about so many health benefits to hair. Yea, I know it's red, but if all else fails, I can mix up something very light (no indigo) with buxus, amla & just do buxus glosses on top of that. Too bad you need the henna for buxus to grab onto. Then again, I'm scared of Henna too & that red!! Aaack!

I hate things that are so complicated. Sorry I'm so long winded again. I just really need to talk to you guys since going no box dye is a big change for me.

If you've used box dye, the Wella stuff is identical. You mix color and developer. :shrug:

And I don't know why you would need to go lighter? You can achieve a pretty accurate color.

But you seem to be pretty against the idea. :shrug: If you want more info on it, check out the Wella Color Touch thread.

[jackie75]

If you've used box dye, the Wella stuff is identical. You mix color and developer. :shrug:

And I don't know why you would need to go lighter? You can achieve a pretty accurate color.

But you seem to be pretty against the idea. :shrug: If you want more info on it, check out the Wella Color Touch thread.

It must of been another one from sally's then that the color was not accurate. It's hard to remember everything I've read, & I have read so much about this stuff, hubby says I'm obsessed. :) I'm still open to the wella or Ion option, but I really do want to be dye free.

In the mean time....I hope I can lighten some more.

You all have been very helpful. Thanks a bunch guys! :blossom:

[klcqtee]

Thanks klcqtee!

I'm going to add Dawn to my shopping list. The last dye I used was a permanent one approximately 4 or 6 weeks ago. My memory is so bad recently.

Is one oil better than an other, for example, EVOO vs coconut?

I was thinking since coconut oil penetrates well, it would work better, but then there's the mild peroxide value of EVOO, but that would probably be destroyed by heating it.

Thanks for the link, I'm going to check it out. :)


IIRC, evoo is what's recommended, but I'm not positive as to why.

Now that you mention head and shoulders, I think it is advised because it acts similarly to a clarifying shampoo (it's very strong, and many people with dyed hair find it does fade their colour), but it has cones, so that may help with the dryness cause by traditional clarifying shampoos. I'm not sure if the cones though would help seal your colour in or not. Hopefully someone else is more knowledgeable.

[jackie75]

I didn't think about head & shoulders having cones. Thanks for pointing that out! I guess I can use my no-cone clarifying shampoo afterward. I went no-cones a month or two ago, & so far, it's been the best thing for my hair ever!

[Oskimosa]

If I'm reading correctly, you want to get all the box dye off your hair right now and grow your natural color out.

There are ways to pull color out, but I am sorry to tell you that the above goal is impossible. Because: your natural color is probably not under those dyes anymore. When you apply a box dye, it more than likely was the kind that lightens hair a bit first before depositing color. So even if you stripped all that away, what's underneath isn't the same as what's going to grow out. Does that make sense?

This is why we have so many threads of others speaking the woes of growing out dyes.

If you're not afraid of a bit of damage, maybe do what I did (a natural blonde who had dumped various reds and browns on her head) : Go to a salon, speak with a colorist. Be sure you are comfortable with him/her. Get them to strip the color out, then put a toner on your hair to match the roots. You'll likely need to trim a couple of inches; but if you could get away with a bob after stripping your hair not once or twice but THREE TIMES--without it falling out-- I'd say you can handle it.

If you ARE afraid of damage, I say just start tinting your roots with the cassia/amla/buxus mix you were thinking about until you've got it blending convincingly, and then let it grow out from there.

Sorry you're unhappy with your color! :flower: Best of luck to you.

[jackie75]

I already knew that. I'm just trying to fade it/strip it down as much as possible. I will not set foot in another salon again. Too many bad experiences, & it's like looking for a needle in a haystack to find someone that is actually educated & knows what they are doing. Plus, it costs a fortune. I don't want to pay that much money for them to fry my hair. :)

I started off over a year ago with a bob to get rid of damage, so I don't want to go down that road again. I've been to colorists in the past. Won't do it again. Apparently, there are a lot of methods that do lighten or help strip away color without the damage. I've googled a lot about this, but I wanted to hear from others here at LHC what they did, without seeing colorists, or using drastic measures.

[jackie75]

Color Oops and Colorfix are not bleach. They do not turn your hair orange. The orange is actually from the old box dyes.


Well, regardless how it ends up orange, it still is the end result, which I don't want, & have to dye over.

Yesterday I did another baby shampoo/baking soda mix with honey this time & left it on for about 30 minutes. I did an ACV rinse after wards, & I was absolutely amazed at the results! My hair just loved the rinse, it came out super smooth & shiny. Plus, my red was toned down a lot!

I got some dawn dish soap & plan on using that tonight, followed with a honey lightening treatment. Then I'll give my hair a rest. These methods are working very well so far. I can really tell that my old built up dye is really fading!

I will post before & after photos tomorrow. Thanks again everyone for your helpful tips. :flowers:

[UltraBella]

Be careful with dawn dish soap, it is meant to remove even stubborn grease from dishes and it will strip all the moisture from your hair. Some people compare the dryness to that of a salon chemical service, so if you are trying to keep your hair healthy it may not be your best option.

[jackie75]

Be careful with dawn dish soap, it is meant to remove even stubborn grease from dishes and it will strip all the moisture from your hair. Some people compare the dryness to that of a salon chemical service, so if you are trying to keep your hair healthy it may not be your best option.

Hmm. Do you think it will permanently damage it though? I could always do SMT's & really moisturize after, but if it's going to destroy my hair just using it once, then I won't do it.

I've come too far since my last hair disaster. It's growing like crazy & pretty healthy, considering my hair type.

Thanks for the heads up!

[UltraBella]

Honestly, I have seen this in my salon several times. Clients come in for a color correction after they have used dish detergent to try and strip color and some just have really dry ends, but two women I can think of off the top of my head had hair so dry and matted that I was worried we would have to cut it off. Based on their experiences I just wouldn't risk it, results seem to vary considerably and if you have an oh no moment, you can't take it back......

[jackie75]

Thanks ultrabella. I think I will skip the dawn for now. I've washed it so much already, & I like to wash it once a week anyway.

Saturday is my wash day, so I'll use my Avalon clarifying shampoo & then do a honey lightening treatment. Then, I'll give my hair a much needed break. I know honey lightening can be done quite often, but, it's a sticky mess. :)

[GRU]

Yesterday I did another baby shampoo/baking soda mix with honey this time & left it on for about 30 minutes. I did an ACV rinse after wards, & I was absolutely amazed at the results! My hair just loved the rinse, it came out super smooth & shiny. Plus, my red was toned down a lot!

Yay, I'm so glad that it helped!

I remember the first (and only) time I did a baking soda wash, I didn't know anything about the pH issue, and my hair felt just AWFUL -- I thought I'd really done some damage! A couple days later I learned about using ACV, and like you I had excellent results after just one use. :) Funny how something so *simple* can have such a HUGE effect, isn't it?

[jackie75]

Thanks! Yea, pretty amazing to me. The first time I tried it without the ACV I was scared I really damaged my hair & that it was going to fall out! lol.

My hair has been so tolerant of all these washings. Yesterday I tried Giovanni triple treat shampoo & conditioner instead of my usual smooth as silk, & it was a disaster! My hair did not like that at all....it came out too squeaky & stripped! I'll stick to the smooth as silk....my hair loves it. It's the only natural/no cone shampoo & conditioner that works well with my hair that I've tried so far.

[Star Eagle]

Jackie75,

I used to use Dawn dish washing soap after I tye dyed clothes it set the colors? just info ..You ladies know much more then I do on hair.

Just thought I'd give you my knowledge for what its worth.

Star Eagle

[Star Eagle]

Jackie75,
What I would recommend... is getting a color of henna from http://www.hennahut.com that is closest to your natural color. yes it comes in a box...however it is the easiest way to henna in my opinion... then just touch up your roots and they grow out.
Henna dye blocks UV so your hair doesn't get sun damaged. Also it strengthens your hair so your won't get split ends. It eliminates dandruff.
Hope this helps.
Star Eagle

[jackie75]

Jackie75,
What I would recommend... is getting a color of henna from http://www.hennahut.com that is closest to your natural color. yes it comes in a box...however it is the easiest way to henna in my opinion... then just touch up your roots and they grow out.
Henna dye blocks UV so your hair doesn't get sun damaged. Also it strengthens your hair so your won't get split ends. It eliminates dandruff.
Hope this helps.
Star Eagle

I have looked at their light brown color, but it is 50% indigo to 40% henna. I'm afraid it will be too dark on me. I could do a strand test, but, I'm waiting for more of my virgin hair to grow until I make a decision on whether or not go the henna route. It's hard to tell right now what my virgin hair is....all I see are whites, & not much of another color except an ashy brown.:)