(rant)c'mon people.. grass is not greener on the other side

[tig-man]

I just have to comment about this, since this is a hair forum...

there's just too many of this type of comments: "i wish my hair was thicker/thinner, curly/straight, darker/lighter... so on." I hear this all the time when the subject of hair come up in public. But, since this is a hair forum where people, i assume, spend more time taking care of their hair, and have more confidence about their hair, i wasn't expecting to see this type of comments.

I don't know why it is this way when it comes to people and their body parts. why can't they just be happy with what they have? maybe its a guy thing... i never wish my body was different shape (i like being short and dumpy.. i have a lower center of gravity, which makes me more maneuverable , that's how i look at it.) I can stand to loose a few pounds, but thats more for health reasons then anything else.

I can't imagine anyone having the same type of comments about, say, their skin color. for the most part, everyone seem to be ok with their skin color. I never see the point of getting a "tan" just to "look better."

I have thick black straight hair, sometimes its a little wire-y. I wouldn't have it any other way. I don't want thinner hair, i dont want curls, i dont wish my hair was more "silky." i like it the way it is. :cheese:

trust me when i say this, and i'm definitely sure other guys here will agree... your natural hair is fine. If you have thin hair that you think is almost transparent, there'll be a guy that likes it. if you have thick-straight hair that wont ever stay in place in any sort of braid/updo/bun, there'll be a guy that likes your straight hair the way it is.

it's like boobs, you know? if you have big ones, there'll be guys that appreciate those. if you have small ones, there'll be just as much guys that likes that too. there's all sort of folks out there, you can't please everybody, so just be happy with what you have. the key is to be CONFIDENT with what you have.

(stepping down from soap box)

[clichepithet]

I know that the times I'm cursing at my hair for being soft, slippy and a bit on the fine side, it's because I can't get it to do that awesome thing (insert fellow LHCer) can do with her (or his) hair. I'm not particularly interested in what some random guy thinks about it (my hair) or my chesty-bits, for that matter. Thanks.

[Auryn]

Sometimes, having that confidence is difficult. Especially if you grew up hearing over and over "you should cut your hair, lose 10 pounds, etc.."

4.5 months ago, I heard my own mother tell my husband that he needed to put me on a diet...on the morning of my wedding. This did not help my confidence at all. And it didn't help that we (my mother and I) had a fight about my weight not 6 months before that. And then she even mentions it (my weight) to my BFF a day or two after the wedding!

Some times...it's hard to get over.

[Katurday]

Most animals wish to groom themselves to be desirable. Its normal behaviour. While I am all for confidence, wishing to be a bit more this way or that is natural. Life would be boring if we had no personal goals or whatnot. And did you ever think that tanning/bleaching/dyeing might be a part of a person's identity, not insecurity? I know most men are pretty low maintenance and prefer low maintenance girls, but my makeup, tans, and trying to get my hair the silkiest and softest it can be is a part of me. It makes me happy.

[nowxisxforever]

I agree, OP. Be happy with yourself. Be happy with what you have. Even if it would be preferable for you to have a different type of hair or a different appearance, remember-- there is someone out there that would kill to look like you, or to have your hairtype, or length, or color, or thickness-- it never ends.

Beyond that-- if you don't accept yourself as you are, you will have a huge roadblock in the way of you being happy with your lot. I accept myself for who and what and how I am ... frizzy, undecided hairtype, splitty hair, shortness, chubbiness and all. I'm much happier now that I don't fuss over how much I wish I looked like someone else. I may not like it, no- but I don't really gripe about it.

Edit::: but this does not mean you can't care for yourself. If you need to lose weight, do it healthily- if your hair is too dry, take steps to moisturize it-- but don't get down about the lot you were naturally dealt. I can't control my height, or my hairtype. I work with them.

[bumblebums]

There are men out there who like women for who they are and do not ask for any changes to their appearance. They are rare, but they are out there. And like any endangered species, they should be appreciated and protected :)

I agree that confidence goes a LOONG way in attracting men. I know plenty of women who have gorgeous hair or a nice figure or good skin or whatnot and cannot get a date to save their lives. Physical attributes will not help you if you don't know what to do with them. On the other hand, a fun, easy-going personality and some brains can make up for a multitude of physical imperfections.

Back to hair, my own hair has never been healthier than it is now, and I think it looks better, too, now that I have accepted that it is what it is (fine-textured, medium-thickness, wavy, brown) and stopped torturing it into shapes that aren't natural for it. I wouldn't have it any other way now.

[Darian Moone]

it's like boobs, you know? if you have big ones, there'll be guys that appreciate those. if you have small ones, there'll be just as much guys that likes that too. there's all sort of folks out there, you can't please everybody, so just be happy with what you have. the key is to be CONFIDENT with what you have.

(stepping down from soap box)

They are called breasts. Please don't degrade women by using slang for our body parts. I find this extremely offensive.

[tig-man]

There are men out there who like women for who they are and do not ask for any changes to their appearance.

SWMBO has cut her hair (to shoulder length), colored it (blond), permed it... i married a waist length straight hair brunette, i want my money back.:D

i tried real hard to convince her to go back to the "original" look but to no avail.:(

she'll grow out of it, i hope.

[tig-man]

They are called breasts. Please don't degrade women by using slang for our body parts. I find this extremely offensive.

chesty-bits don't offend you? (post #2)

[SimplyViki]

Hmm. She may or may not grow out of it. You married a woman with a personality, though, no? Not just a waist length straight hair brunette? She is still the same woman, just perhaps got tired of the same look.

[skydancer7]

I agree with the original poster's point. However, I also think it is common for a male to be unable to relate to what women deal with, simply because men have not had to walk in our shoes. It is not always a simple thing to flip a switch and suddenly be ok with yourself after years and years of social conditioning telling you otherwise.

As for most people being ok with their skin color, I must disagree. I am going to go out on a limb here and say the OP is caucasian. Of course a caucasian in this society is likely to be comfortable with his skin color. He/she has never had to catch sh*t for it their whole lives.

I also think that it's soothing to have a safe place to vent frustrations when I am not feeling 100% happy with myself, and know that others here will understand and support me.

I love that LHC is both a place where we encourage each other to embrace ourselves, but also support one another when the inevitable spells of dissatisfaction hit.

EDIT: As far as the boobs/chesty-bits/breasts thing, I have two comments. One is, I use slang all the time because I am comfortable and secure enough in my femininity to joke around and not be threatened by casual references to sexual things.
However, being around this community, I have noticed that the culture here prefers a more cautious, PC, "respectful" use of words for describing sensitive topics. There is a trust-building period especially from 1) NEW and 2) MALE posters. Until they get to know you, people are less tolerant of potentially offensive stuff. Case in point: there are so many posts here where ladies post back and forth in a casual and joking way about breasts, vaginas, etc etc and use all kinds of slang. That's because they are comfortable with each other and trust each other.

My point is, to the original poster, I am personally not offended by the word "boobs", but just be aware that you will catch some major sh*t from some people around here.

[Hypnotica]

SWMBO has cut her hair (to shoulder length), colored it (blond), permed it... i married a waist length straight hair brunette, i want my money back.:D

i tried real hard to convince her to go back to the "original" look but to no avail.:(

she'll grow out of it, i hope.


Grown people are allowed to do that sort off stuff. Her body, her rules.

[clichepithet]

SWMBO has cut her hair (to shoulder length), colored it (blond), permed it... i married a waist length straight hair brunette, i want my money back.:D

i tried real hard to convince her to go back to the "original" look but to no avail.:(

she'll grow out of it, i hope.


chesty-bits don't offend you? (post #2)


Isn't it her hair? That she should be pleased with? Isn't that the point here?

And I didn't know if I could put "breasts" because of certain things we try to keep out of searchable terms to keep out certain types. Excuse me.

I'll now step away from this thread, or try to, before I get in trouble.

[ancilla]

If you have thin hair that you think is almost transparent, there'll be a guy that likes it. if you have thick-straight hair that wont ever stay in place in any sort of braid/updo/bun, there'll be a guy that likes your straight hair the way it is.

it's like boobs, you know? if you have big ones, there'll be guys that appreciate those. if you have small ones, there'll be just as much guys that likes that too. there's all sort of folks out there, you can't please everybody, so just be happy with what you have. the key is to be CONFIDENT with what you have.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't grow my hair long or make it pretty and healthy for any man. I could care less about whether men find me attractive or not.

This isn't the exact kind of board where women trade secrets about how to please men and look attractive to men.
Maybe you need to to take your ideas to a more mainstream or conservative board.

I'm sorry to be snarky but traditional patriarchal beliefs about women and why women fuss over their looks really make me sick.

ETA: I also really find it creepy that you even mentioned "boobs" in your post. There are many MANY other parts of a woman's body other than her breasts you know..

*stepping away*

[Hypnotica]

Well. There is some interesting things in your OP. I do also subscribe to the feeling that many people never seem to get satisfied with their outer appearance. That is somewhat sad.

But, as for myself - I do henna. The reason behind this is that red hair is "me".

[Firefly]

Well, I'm sure I'm not the only one who wishes her hair was in better shape for myself, not to please men. Thankfully DH loves me exactly the way I am, flaws and all (and me him), and couldn't care less whether my hair is long or short. I'm growing it out for me. I'm trying to improve the condition for me, and I want it to look a certain way--again--for me.

I'm a pretty confident person and overall very happy with the way I am, inside and out. That doesn't mean I don't sometimes wish I could improve certain things, simply because I want to be a better person (there's always room for growth) or find them aesthetically pleasing (outwardly speaking).

ETA: I see I'm NOT the only one! We posted at the same time, ancilla! :)

[MissMandyElizab]

I look the way i look for me. I stopped looking the way i thought others wanted along time ago.
And I think some person is trying to make us feel uncomfertable here
Tig man people change and one thing they have a right to is there body you dont like it go date a doll!

[Themyst]

I don't know. My hair is extremely light and flyaway. It is a royal pain in the ***. Quite unmanageable. I'm still trying to figure out how that is natural - why would 'nature' create it that way? I want thicker hair.

My take on it is that just like 'nature' sometimes gives people six toes or cleft palates, sometimes our defects are not so obvious. Since so many of us are of the Heinz 57 variety, when we are created in the womb, the dominant genes take over and we get black hair/red hair/blond hair that doesn't necessarily go with our blue/green/brown eyes or our dark/pale skin.

Likewise, most people find symmetry attractive and that is what many women go for when applying makeup. Making the eyes appear bigger/more in proportion to the face - applying blush to heighten the cheekbones, etc. Most people have the desire to achieve that Fibonacci balance.

Of course, I don't think this applies to all, but probably most.

ETA: And I think saying 'boobs' is just fine. Poor guy! :) And, I am the kind of woman who likes to make herself attractive for men. There, I said it.

[marikamt]

I am a little surprised at the response OP has gotten (by most, not all of responders)......
Give the guy a break- I don't think anything offensive was meant, in fact I think that his original intent (from how I read the post) was to give a guys viewpoint that 'we are okay the way we are'... while we may not be a board looking for tips on 'how to please a man, etc', I have seen PLENTY of posts lamenting body weight or whatever. I think what OP was trying to say was that men are not near as stressed about some of this stuff as a lot (not all) women are......

Can we maybe give him a break and not jump all over him for semantics? We have all used euphemisms for various bits (girl and boy).....

[MsBubbles]

Tig-man, I have never met a larger group of people more happy with their natural hair as I've met here at LHC. Through them I have been inspired and encouraged to love what nature gave me.

If you're wondering why many women think they are so often inadequate...just look at TV, movies and magazines. Even underwear ads. Lately I saw a Victoria's Secret ad saying something like "I love my body". Well of course you do! You're a #$%@**& Victoria's Secret model, for heaven's sake!!

It's everywhere. Cellulite and wrinkles are normal yet nobody on TV or in magazines have them.

PS check out all those silly sit-coms where the man is about 40 lbs overweight and the wife is an absolute babe. Also all those retirement commercials where the grey-haired older men have 20 something girls hanging off them...

[skydancer7]

Oh yeah, one more thing. Wishing or requesting a partner to change something doesn't always mean they are a male chauvenist pig. For example, I hated that my husband wore plaid pajama pants all day every day. I thought it looked extremely sloppy and like he was homeless. He preferred my hair when it was long, and wished I would grow it out. We made a deal: he would ditch the pajama pants if I grew out my hair. Visual preferences doesn't always have to be this scary, evil "my partner wants to control me and doesn't care about who I am as a person" thing. It could just be that, look, I am a visual creature and I get to look at you (my partner) for the rest of my life. How about we do each other a favor and try to look nice/be healthy for each other? Granted, if I had strong feelings about keeping short hair, I would not have been so willing to compromise. Anyway, I think you get my point. You ladies can't tell me that your DH or DBF never gained weight, grew a beard, etc and you wished he would do something to change it. Does that mean you don't respect him as a person?? Food for thought.

[jessie58]

Well we womenfolk like to complain, it's our favorite pass time don't you know.

We all flocked over here to the hair boards so we could complain about our biggest problem of all, our dissatisfaction with our hair. And our boobs. And men.

[pennyroyal]

ms bubbles~ i completley agree about those lame sitcoms & commercials. think those were made by a man???? it's so annoying but oh well. it's not reality & unfortunately in this day & age people have a misconception about what is & isn't reality.
i think the most beautiful women are ones who are all natural. nothin beats that! (& i'm not referring to hair color either~i think it's fun to change it up, experiment, whatnot cause it's not permanent)

[Hypnotica]

I dare to say that OP have been a female, he had been met with other words....

[Naava]

^I agree.

I think OP's point was good originally and he probably didn't mean to offend anyone.

[jessie58]

In reply to Hypnotica and Naava:

I agree that the OP has made some good comments but my thinking is what better place to air our insecurities about our hair than on a hair board. This is how we learn about it and fix or change it. If we all came here to say, my hair is perfect and I love it, then what would we have to talk about or learn or share?

I also get a sense of the OP saying that women are complainers, he didn't say that but it's kind of like ladies, men love you the way you are so shut up already, lol.

I totally agree about the confidence factor, whether it be hair or breasts (Darian Moone objected to the term boobs and I see that being offensive to some)

He's complaining that we are complaining and that's kind of funny. :D

[Unofficial_Rose]

I know most men are pretty low maintenance and prefer low maintenance girls,

I think they just think that they prefer low-maintenance girls. So long as a girl can make it appear as though she's not tried too hard, then probably you can't tell. The most popular models & actresses aren't exactly low-maintenance, IMO. :)

[Lamb]

trust me when i say this, and i'm definitely sure other guys here will agree... your natural hair is fine. If you have thin hair that you think is almost transparent, there'll be a guy that likes it. if you have thick-straight hair that wont ever stay in place in any sort of braid/updo/bun, there'll be a guy that likes your straight hair the way it is.

it's like boobs, you know? if you have big ones, there'll be guys that appreciate those. if you have small ones, there'll be just as much guys that likes that too. there's all sort of folks out there, you can't please everybody, so just be happy with what you have. the key is to be CONFIDENT with what you have.

(stepping down from soap box)

You seem to take it for granted that the only reason why women may be dissatisfied with their appearance is an underlying anxiety about men's reaction to it. :rolleyes:

I don't give a rat's testicles (small or large) about what men like about my hair or my breasts (not boobs, thank you very much). Or anything else for that matter. I do wish my hair was thicker. Not because I think that is what men like, but because that is what *I* like. KWIM?

I do find it strange that you start your post with the importance of self-acceptance, then you go on to say that being comfortable with oneself is "a guy thing" and end it all with a little lecture to women that "there'll be guys who appreciate their breasts/hair/whatever." Seriously??

[Lamb]

SWMBO has cut her hair (to shoulder length), colored it (blond), permed it... i married a waist length straight hair brunette, i want my money back.:D

i tried real hard to convince her to go back to the "original" look but to no avail.:(

she'll grow out of it, i hope.

GROW out of it??? :bigeyes: I hope you are not implying you married an underage girl. She is plenty grown up, I can assure you, to decide what she wants to do with her hair. And so are women on this board. When I want a lecture on self-confidence and pleasing men, I'll go to askmen.com.

(And yes, I'd have replied in the same vein had the post been written by a woman.)

[naereid]

Coincidentally, this morning I immersed myself in reading The Beauty Myth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beauty_Myth). Among other things, the author talks about the fact that men are almost always satisfied with the way they look, even if they're "short and dumpy".

I mean, I see OP's point. But that attitude is just so overwhelmingly masculine that his entire post makes me uncomfortable. The reason why we shouldn't worry about our appearance is that because men will still want us either way? Yeah, thanks but no thanks.

It's silly to say that "men just don't get it", but...

Men just don't get it.

[Unofficial_Rose]

Coincidentally, this morning I immersed myself in reading The Beauty Myth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beauty_Myth). Among other things, the author talks about the fact that men are almost always satisfied with the way they look, even if they're "short and dumpy".

I mean, I see OP's point. But that attitude is just so overwhelmingly masculine that his entire post makes me uncomfortable. The reason why we shouldn't worry about our appearance is that because men will still want us either way? Yeah, thanks but no thanks.

It's silly to say that "men just don't get it", but...

Men just don't get it.

Inclined to agree. I spent ages once trying to convince a really quite educated man that we women don't put on makeup/do our hair/dress to impress anyone other than ourselves, and specifically not men. He just wasn't having any of it. :rolleyes:

Then again, he is not all men, nor is the OP - maybe some of them understand that we try to look good for our own self-image/way we perceive ourselves? Time for some more LHC men to make some comment, I think...

[prittykitty]

I do agree with you, however the hair that you described that you have seems to be the perfect hair that I would love to have. You don't know what some of us with natural curly frizz go through. When my hair is wet it looks longer and smoother but after it dries, it shrinks up to a bunch of wild curls thus making it look a lot shorter than it really is. It is not a guy thing, but instead a personal problem. I see many women all the time who have beautiful long straight shiny hair while I can hardly get mine go grow much longer than shoulder length. For some women this is an insult. We want to look feminine and have beautiful hair like everyone else, at least this is what I want. I wish I could just wash my hair and go but I am not this fortunate. I have to put mine up everyday to control it while I wait for it to grow out and hope it will get heavy enough to weigh down the wild look. There are many times I have contemplated getting dreadlocks with added extensions. It seems the only way for the type of hair that I have. Yes, I am doing everything right to it. It is growing, just that it is growing more wild and big than it is down and smooth.

You are right, we should be happy with what we have and all. I am happy with everything but my hair.

Oh, and my picture you see is my hair smoothed with a straightening iron. I have for the past several months quit heat styling so my hair is no longer like the hair in the picture. the way I wish it could be.

[bumblebums]

A-ya-yay...

Word of caution, tig-man: whenever a man expresses an opinion about what women "should be" like, some women will get upset and beg to differ. Even if the opinion is that women should be themselves. "I don't want to be myself! I want to be someone else! And it's my right!" They are right, too--they can do whatever they want to, and it's nobody's business but theirs.

As for the whole be-yourself thing... I've seen both sides of it, and I know what I prefer. I have had boyfriends who hounded me about stuff like wearing make-up: "Why do you do it? You look fine without it!" And I've told them to drop dead and leave me alone. I have never been with someone who asked me to, say, wear heels or grow my hair out or wear more make-up or anything of that sort, because that kind of person would not have found me attractive in the first place. But if I did, the answer would have been the same: drop dead and leave me alone. If you want a woman who looks different from me, go find one. I'll be better off by myself.

As for wishing your hair to be different from what it is. I think both the OP and a few of the other posters in this thread are missing an important factor in how women think about their appearance. Very often, it is influenced more by other women's opinions than men's. Case in point: In some countries, Muslim women are not seen by any men other than their husband. When they get together with other women, though, the fashion show that ensues is quite astounding. Underneath the hijab and the modest clothing are really expensive designer labels. They are meant more for the other women than for the husband, who, never seeing any other women, cannot appreciate the get-up anyway.

Sometimes we are not aware of just how much peer pressure from women affects our self-opinion. We may be right that we are not doing it for men--but that does not automatically entail that we are doing it for ourselves.

[Quixii]

I gotta say, while I can be unhappy/uncomfortable with my body, I love my hair just the way it is. I wouldn't change anything about it. :)

[aef231]

He's complaining that we are complaining and that's kind of funny. :D[/quote]


I think they just think that they prefer low-maintenance girls. So long as a girl can make it appear as though she's not tried too hard, then probably you can't tell. The most popular models & actresses aren't exactly low-maintenance, IMO. :)

Jessie58: LMAO. So true. I myself am a champion complainer.

Unnofficial_Rose: I KNOW!!!! Guys are always on me like, "why does it take you so long to get ready? You don't need to wear makeup!" but if I'm out with no makeup or my hair a mess, it's literally like I don't exist at best, or I catch hell for it at worst. I gave up on caring a while ago, haha.

[Katurday]

I think they just think that they prefer low-maintenance girls. So long as a girl can make it appear as though she's not tried too hard, then probably you can't tell. The most popular models & actresses aren't exactly low-maintenance, IMO. :)
I disagree. I have never had more interest in me then when I quit the makeup and the hours of getting ready. Assuming that my makeup skills aren't utterly horrific, I'd say that men actually do perfer lower maintenance gals.

[SimplyViki]

I disagree. I have never had more interest in me then when I quit the makeup and the hours of getting ready. Assuming that my makeup skills aren't utterly horrific, I'd say that men actually do perfer lower maintenance gals.
I'd say it depends on the girl. :shrug: I wear much less makeup than I used to, sometimes none at all. I get no attention from men. Then again, my roommate says I give out a "taken" vibe, so maybe that's why. :silly:

Seriously, though. I think some women just look utterly breath taking without much help. So far as I've noticed, it's mainly brunettes with brown eyes who tend to look great without makeup. With my translucent skin, blood vessels are very visible, leading to dark circles under the eyes, broken capillaries, visible blue/green veins on my face.. it's all right there. Not exactly the most attractive thing in the world. Foundation, or at least some powder, works wonders.

[MsBubbles]

A-ya-yay...
Word of caution, tig-man: whenever a man expresses an opinion about what women "should be" like, some women will get upset and beg to differ. Even if the opinion is that women should be themselves. "I don't want to be myself! I want to be someone else! And it's my right!" They are right, too--they can do whatever they want to, and it's nobody's business but theirs..

Good points! Which reminds me, to the OP or any other guys out there wanting their SO to lean towards a certain look, I think my BF in all his years finally got it right. He says things like 'That dress would look great on you, honey!', or when my hair was short, after each hair cut he'd say 'It looks pretty, but I also love it when it's long'. I finally figured out he loved long hair but didn't want to get into a power-struggle with me about it. It worked! Poor guy probably walked through some minefields himself with girlfriends past.


I gotta say, while I can be unhappy/uncomfortable with my body, I love my hair just the way it is. I wouldn't change anything about it. :)

Well I can see why! Your hair is rather perfect! :crush:

[funnybunny668]

Interesting thread!
It probably was a rather unfortunate choice to assume women are only trying to please men, or the comparison to other body parts, but I still have to agree with the OP about confidence being beautiful, and the idea that we need to be happy with ourselves first.

[Syaoransbear]

If everyone was perfectly content with the way things were there wouldn't be any progress. There is nothing wrong with striving for the grass on the other side.

I've had that super thick hair when I had hair extensions. My circumference was 6" and I loved everything about it. I also dye my hair and I can confidently say that in my eyes IT IS better than my real hair color. I also used to straighten my hair on a daily basis for 5 years. I loved how tangle free it stayed and how the wind would pick it up. I've spent enough time on the 'other side' to say that yes, it IS greener. Maybe not to other people, but it is to me, and there's nothing wrong with wanting things you like. I'm not going to convince myself to prefer my natural hair just because it's natural.

I hear so much of this 'be confident and love your natural hair/skin/body/whatever". But why? Why do I have to? When I can change it to something that I actually do like, why should I convince myself to settle for something I don't really prefer with the only reason being because it's natural?

[GoddesJourney]

People in general often want things to change. Women talk about it more. However, I think you're assuming that we all have desires for out hair that are in some way related to men. I love my hair. I loved it before I was the age to even care about men. I loved my hair when I considered myself a boy. I love my hair now (except for the damaged part). Sometimes I think it would be fun to have really curly hair for a day, or really black hair, or whatever. Of course, I love my hair so much I wish I had more of it (on my head) :D My husband likes it too, but that's not at all why I like it. I liked it before I met him. I wish I had more volume because I love the way it looks. I wish I had more of it so I could have one of those big thick braids. I don't obsess over it every minute of every day, but I definately stare at it when I see it on another person and wonder what it would be like to have all of that thick, beautiful hair.

[GoddesJourney]

I think they just think that they prefer low-maintenance girls. So long as a girl can make it appear as though she's not tried too hard, then probably you can't tell. The most popular models & actresses aren't exactly low-maintenance, IMO. :)

I think a lot of guys don't realize how much work it is to maintain appearance. I'm only saying this because I've met quite a few men who think that women just roll out of bed with neat hair and perfect skin and cared-for nails etc. etc...

Also, many men REALLY DO prefer high maintenance girls and that's just what they want. They want the princess girl and that's fine. A lot of girls like BEING the princess girl. I experienced this a lot dating. Many of the guys I was with were really excited about the low maintenance thing at first. After awhile, they just got confused and didn't really know what to do with me. They tried to take me shopping and then didn't understand why I wasn't interested in any of the stores. Then I realized they didn't want to buy anything either, they just assumed I did. I invited them to the beach and they were really disappointed to find out that I wanted to run around and play with my dog instead of lay down in a bikini on a towel for hours "tanning". I had a guy ask me to pluck my eyebrows and wear a skirt. That was weird. It seems like they couldn't figure out why I didn't want to be prettier, assuming that being as pretty as can be was my ultimate goal. I've never been to a salon, or had any salon related treatments, ever.

On the other hand, I've known guys who thought I was one of the most attractive girls they've ever had the pleasure of knowing in my mens pants with my smaller breasts and muscular arms (at the time). Some guys want a girl who can punch like a man. Some guys want a girl who can't carry her own groceries. There are girls to match both types and everyone inbetween.

[Clarisse]

I don't want to be rude, I think it is completely ok to have the point of views the OP has, and it has nothing to do with the OP being a man - but I simply disagree.
Grass is greener on the other side in some ways. I think i got the "green grass" on some parts of my body and in some parts of my life, while I got "yellow, dry grass" in other parts. (Sorry about the bad metaphor). I really wish I had thicker, darker, curlier hair. This isn't because I want to please someone with my hair, it's just because I want it - the way I want an iPod, a new computer, a good education or... well, you get the idea. If someone else thinks my hair is pretty, I get happy, but my own opinion is the one that matters most to me. I like my "boobs", or chest-parts, or breasts, or whatever you prefer to call them. They are just the way I want them to be. When you are a new, male poster, mentioning breasts in a post that hasn't got anything to do with "boobs" are bit... Well, not part of social etiquette.

Saying that everybody is happy about their skintone is wront too. Lots of girls at my school use self tanners or use tanning beds regularly. The skin-whitening industry is huge in some parts of Asia and Africa - people die from some of the nasty ingredients in the cheap skin whitening creams. I wish my skin was paler - I'm already a fairly pale caucasian, but I would love to have milky white "vampire" skin.

I don't see anything wrong with wanting something you don't have, be it an iPod or thicker hair.

I do understand that you are a little upset by your wife frying her hair when nature gave her such beautiful hair. I think it's okay. I get sad when people in my family gains weight or do something that make them less beautiful - not because I don't love their personality, but because I want them to be beautiful because it makes them happier. Just remember that the most important thing is that she is happy - and that she is still the same woman. :flower:

[Rivanariko]

One thing to remember, especially on hair boards like this, is that a lot of the reason people are "complaining" or wanting something other than what they have is more out of practicality than out of a desire for a certain look.

Personally, I love the way my hair looks. I love the way it feels. It takes to most styles that I've tried with it fairly easily as long as I'm careful about not letting scalp show through, but even that doesn't bother me. But I wish it wasn't quite so fine for maintenance reasons. My hair seems to be the only part of my body that cannot withstand routine abuse and bounce back saying "What else have you got?"
I get thrown off a horse, get up, jump back on, and continue my day like normal. I strain my ankle while running, I ice it, wrap it, and go on. Whatever. My body gets over things fast. But my hair? No dice. If I dare do something so invasive as... BRUSHING I can hear the little screams as the strands break and the ends split left and right, no matter how gentle I am. I don't like taking a half hour to detangle my hair. I have better things to do (like LHC!)
And I think just about everyone here wants longer hair :-P

I do see where you're coming from though, OP. The fact is, we have what we have to a certain extent. Things like color can be changed, but I haven't yet found a way to steel-plate my hair. We may wish that we had something else that was easier, or that we found more attractive, or even that we think others would find attractive, but it's important to learn to love what you DO have, to appreciate the advantages you have because of that (I could do an infinity bun at 28"! How many people with circumferences of 5"+ can say that?) and to wear what you do have confidently.

[spidermom]

Well, you know, other people who are partial to the type and color can love my hair. I'm going to love the straight, dark, glossy hair. So there!

[Stevy]

I just have to comment about this, since this is a hair forum...

there's just too many of this type of comments: "i wish my hair was thicker/thinner, curly/straight, darker/lighter... so on." I hear this all the time when the subject of hair come up in public. But, since this is a hair forum where people, i assume, spend more time taking care of their hair, and have more confidence about their hair, i wasn't expecting to see this type of comments.

Everyone's got a right to their opinion. Telling people that there's too much of one sort of talk or another and they should shut up... not going to happen. If you don't like these kind of posts, don't read them.

[adiapalic]

You seem to take it for granted that the only reason why women may be dissatisfied with their appearance is an underlying anxiety about men's reaction to it. :rolleyes:

I don't give a rat's testicles (small or large) about what men like about my hair or my breasts (not boobs, thank you very much). Or anything else for that matter. I do wish my hair was thicker. Not because I think that is what men like, but because that is what *I* like. KWIM?

I do find it strange that you start your post with the importance of self-acceptance, then you go on to say that being comfortable with oneself is "a guy thing" and end it all with a little lecture to women that "there'll be guys who appreciate their breasts/hair/whatever." Seriously??

[bolded by me]
Same. Also, I was cool with the post at first when the term "person" was used, but late in the post I realized that what the OP was really talking about are women specifically--call it nitpicking on semantics... but because of that, toward the end of the post, I found it a bit off-putting.

To add, I've heard men share insecurities about their appearance too.

ETA: Thinking on it, I have to say to the OP that self-acceptance does not necessarily equate to reverting to one's more "natural" state. I think it's more general than that. Self-acceptance is probably more related to being comfortable with what one finds to represent their own identity--what *they* believe best represents *them*. This of course brings in varying degrees of maintenance. At the risk of using vague, general language, and representing a casual observation I've made, I ask, do most women go farther lengths than most men to modify their appearance in order to represent themselves? Probably so--through body hair removal, dying hair, make-up, heels, bras, underwear.

There are feminist groups who support the idea that abandoning these gender-specific appearance "mods" will liberate women. However, there are other feminists who support the idea that women may freely utilize these to support their own identity as "woman", and reach self-acceptance as they see fit.

Really it depends on the individual woman, and what she thinks. I think a great variety have come forth today to share that fact.

[adiapalic]

I gotta say, while I can be unhappy/uncomfortable with my body, I love my hair just the way it is. I wouldn't change anything about it. :)

But, but but.... look at your hair! lol. You better love it--it's so gorgeous!

[jera]

This is a thought provoking thread, but I feel the desire for something to be different, better, easier, etc. is the definition of progress. :D

[GoddesJourney]

This is a thought provoking thread, but I feel the desire for something to be different, better, easier, etc. is the definition of progress. :D

Now *that* is a good point.

[zule]

OP, I understand your point. I think you got into trouble here because:

1. you're brand new, and we don't know if you're a troll or a well-meaning poster, and
2. you're male, and could even be a hair ******ist in addition to being a troll. Trust me: we've had both here.

Sometimes given 1 & 2, it would be best if you'd wait a while, let people get to know you, and then start posting rants. Just a suggestion. Oh! And recognize that just as people of various ethnicities can use words about themselves that they would be offended by if said by outsiders, so, too, can some women be offended by "boobs" instead of "breasts" when written by a man. Just try to be sensitive, since there are many different types of people here, from all over the world. That makes this such a wonderful place to be.

Welcome to LHC. :)

[Nat242]

You seem to take it for granted that the only reason why women may be dissatisfied with their appearance is an underlying anxiety about men's reaction to it. :rolleyes:

I don't give a rat's testicles (small or large) about what men like about my hair or my breasts (not boobs, thank you very much). Or anything else for that matter. I do wish my hair was thicker. Not because I think that is what men like, but because that is what *I* like. KWIM?

I do find it strange that you start your post with the importance of self-acceptance, then you go on to say that being comfortable with oneself is "a guy thing" and end it all with a little lecture to women that "there'll be guys who appreciate their breasts/hair/whatever." Seriously??


GROW out of it??? :bigeyes: I hope you are not implying you married an underage girl. She is plenty grown up, I can assure you, to decide what she wants to do with her hair. And so are women on this board. When I want a lecture on self-confidence and pleasing men, I'll go to askmen.com.

(And yes, I'd have replied in the same vein had the post been written by a woman.)

I agree wholeheartedly with Lamb. The only thing I'd like to add is - I don't think anything productive is going to emerge if we keep talking about men and women as though they're a uniform group, e.g. "men do/do not like low-maintenance women." People are different. Though one person may see a trend in the behaviour of men in their world, I'd be willing to be that another has seen the precisely opposite trend amongst the men of *their* world.



To the OP: You're being too simplistic. If you genuinely want to improve the status of women in our society, so that we do not feel overwhelming pressure to conform to conventional beauty standards, so that we are not told every single day how we are not-quite-right yet, that we need something or other before we are acceptable, look to yourself. Look to your own actions - the media you consume, the products you buy - do your best to avoid supporting the industries and companies that work to ensure many women feel reliant on products in order to feel good about themselves.

Look to your own attitude to women who aren't conventionally beautiful, and those who are just not attractive. How do you value those women in your world? Your attitude to your partner is very contradictory and could use some examination..she should be happy with her "natural" appearance because it's what *you* prefer? Huh? And you're being patronising by treating her choices about her appearance like they're some sort of immature phase; hoping she'll "grow out of it."

So rather than tell us all just to get over it and shut up, that men will like us anyway (ignoring the fact that many of us *aren't* motivated by what men will think of us - not everyone dates men, for starters), look to yourself first. It's great that you are able to accept yourself physically, but our society places very different expectations on women when it comes to appearances than it does men. It's not as easy or simple to shrug those expectations off as you might think - please don't attempt to tell us, those who may feel those expectations every day, that it is.

[dearladydisdain]

I can't imagine anyone having the same type of comments about, say, their skin color. for the most part, everyone seem to be ok with their skin color. I never see the point of getting a "tan" just to "look better."
Ha. I have learned to be happy with my extremely pale skin colour but I have been teased about it my whole life. I don't tan at all (really, it doesn't matter how much sun I get, it really doesn't happen) and you have no idea how much I prayed for tan skin and how many self tanning products I've tried (they don't work). I have finally made peace with it but people still like to point it out which gets really aggravating. I plan on covering my body with colorful tattoos. < /me being contrary :) >

[Nat242]

Ha. I have learned to be happy with my extremely pale skin colour but I have been teased about it my whole life. I don't tan at all (really, it doesn't matter how much sun I get, it really doesn't happen) and you have no idea how much I prayed for tan skin and how many self tanning products I've tried (they don't work). I have finally made peace with it but people still like to point it out which gets really aggravating. I plan on covering my body with colorful tattoos. < /me being contrary :) >

I'm a pale one too! And I was always teased both for my paleness and for the amount of sun protection I wore. I'm more or less over it - I like my pale skin, but I still resent how quickly I get burned, how I get burned through endless layers of protection, and sometimes I envy those who get to lay about in the sun by the water in their bathers, when I'm wearing a hat, sunnies, a sarong/long skirt/pants and a long sleeved shirt. ;)

[Twil]

I know that the times I'm cursing at my hair for being soft, slippy and a bit on the fine side, it's because I can't get it to do that awesome thing (insert fellow LHCer) can do with her (or his) hair. I'm not particularly interested in what some random guy thinks about it (my hair) or my chesty-bits, for that matter. Thanks.
I think you have perfectly fine chesty bits.

I've always loved my hair, though there has been times when I was put out that I never inherited anything from my dad's side of the family--mainly the long legs, and long thick 'why do you put on fake lashes every day?' lashes.

But alas, I'm my mamaw through and through, and I think she was pretty so I'm content.

ETA: *reads through posts* awww, y'all be nice to him, he's new, and I'm sure he means well. :o

[Sisko]

They are called breasts. Please don't degrade women by using slang for our body parts. I find this extremely offensive.
They are called mammaries; don't degrade me by calling them breasts. ;)

'Boobs' is a fine term.


To the OP: You're being too simplistic. If you genuinely want to improve the status of women in our society, so that we do not feel overwhelming pressure to conform to conventional beauty standards, so that we are not told every single day how we are not-quite-right yet, that we need something or other before we are acceptable, look to yourself. Look to your own actions - the media you consume, the products you buy - do your best to avoid supporting the industries and companies that work to ensure many women feel reliant on products in order to feel good about themselves.

Good point, Nat. Unfortunately, women, I find, are more supportive of these industries than men. This is purely my impression of things. I do think that women have a large part to play in perpetuating the overwhelming pressure on women.


I spent ages once trying to convince a really quite educated man that we women don't put on makeup/do our hair/dress to impress anyone other than ourselves, and specifically not men. He just wasn't having any of it. :rolleyes:

Rightly so. People who put on makeup only when they leave the house, only to then claim that they do it for themselves alone, hardly make a convincing case.

Edit: OP, I really don't see a reason to bring up mammaries, breasts or boobs in relation to this.

[Nae]

Ehhh, my hair is okay. The only thing I would like is it to be longer. That is why I am here, to grow it out longer. If I found a magical lamp with a genie in it, first wish would be "daughter no longer has CP" second would be "40 inches, slight u hemline hair" and the third, oh like "world peace" or something, I would have to think about the best thing I could help people with in one fell blow.

The term "boobs" doesn't bother me. It makes me think of those funny blue footed birdies called "boobies" and that makes me amused. I am a kinda live and let live type of gal. I am sure the OP meant no harm with a message that at the core says, "be happy with yourself."

Hugs for all!

[Sisko]

The term "boobs" doesn't bother me. It makes me think of those funny blue footed birdies called "boobies" and that makes me amused."

Aye, it's quite cute. :D

[Teazel]

ETA: *reads through posts* awww, y'all be nice to him, he's new, and I'm sure he means well. :o

Yes, that. I'm sorry you've been put in the stocks, tig-man; I hope the rotten tomatoes won't drive you away. Stick around and learn. :)

[ravenreed]

I understand what the OP was saying, but I am not looking for a mate. I am just expressing my own self identity with my hair-- the same way to do with my clothes, my makeup (or lack thereof), what have you. It has nothing to do with men. There are days that I don't leave the house but I still put my hair in a nice updo just because it makes me happy. I color my hair, not because my own color is bad, but because I like to express my individuality with something different. And some of us change things because we like to switch it up now and then.

I happen to agree somewhat with his theory on breasts. I know men who go nuts for huge ones, men who prefer small ones and everything in between... That is great. Except I am more than a set of ta-ta's. Or hair for that matter.

I think the poor guy was trying to be supportive, in his own XY way. I appreciate the intent.

[Gingevere]

I'm glad this subject was brought up. I have noticed quite a few threads lately that serve only as places for LHC'ers to bemoan the fact that their hair is not this, that, or the other thing. It's really been getting on my nerves, and I find myself spending less and less time in the Main Discussion forum for that reason. On one of those hair thickness threads, I heard more than one person say that they hadn't been self-conscious about their hair until they joined LHC. Now, in a forum relating to hair care, this isn't particularly surprising. But I only found a handful of posters who said that they were comfortable with their hair's natural thickness. Seriously, people... let's not dwell on this sort of thing. Learn to embrace your natural beauty. If you insist on being unhappy with what nature gave you, then at least don't use these boards as a place to whine and moan about it.

I know that sounded a bit blunt. But let's just try to keep things on LHC positive, mkay folks? :) There's already enough stuff in this world that brings people down.

[ambism]

Do I wish for hair different from my own? YES. To make myself look even BETTER... and that's always a good feeling. I'd like some of that "green grass" that grows in East Asia (actually, most parts of Asia!) and South America to plant itself on my lawn but.... ehh, I can only wish for that grass and complain about my own, right? No harm there.

However, looking my best isn't only for me (in a literal sense).
I put on make-up to enhance my features and "prettify" my hair for "men" AND to make other women jealous.
I wear high-heels and tight jeans so that "men" will notice and other women will be envious.
Do I have to? NO. I'm a fine piece of a** with or without make-up. BUT , I like to stand out. I like to be that hot-piece that is turning heads and breaking necks (male and/or female).

Not only do I like when I look my best but I also like it when other people notice that I'm looking good.

As for my "mammary glands"... I call them whatever fits best in a sentence at a given circumstance. If I'm trying to sound edumacational, I'll call them breasts. Anything else, I go all out: chesticles, boobies, play-balls, titties, suckables, and so on and so forth -- and anybody else (man/woman) is open to refer to breasts how they feel fit around me. No reason to take offense on another's verbal expression and/or analogy. I feel that the OP got unnecessary rudeness for his POV.

That would be all from my end. :)

[Nat242]

Good point, Nat. Unfortunately, women, I find, are more supportive of these industries than men. This is purely my impression of things. I do think that women have a large part to play in perpetuating the overwhelming pressure on women.



Oh, I certainly agree, particularly when it comes to products. But when it comes to the woman-negative media that people consume, I'd say it's fairly evenly split between men and women, not that I've done the leg work to prove that. ;)

[Sisko]

I understand what the OP was saying, but I am not looking for a mate. I am just expressing my own self identity with my hair-- the same way to do with my clothes, my makeup (or lack thereof), what have you. It has nothing to do with men. There are days that I don't leave the house but I still put my hair in a nice updo just because it makes me happy. I color my hair, not because my own color is bad, but because I like to express my individuality with something different. And some of us change things because we like to switch it up now and then.

You're making me want to retract my previous statement, ravenreed. I'm not completely rejecting the notion of self-expression, but believe that most people truly wish to look presentable in public, i.e. for others also, and not solely themselves. I have noticed that there is a discrepancy between what is worn inside and outside the home with people who argue that they only wear makeup/dress for themselves. This is quite interesting, and I'd love more input.

On a different note, someone once said "I aspire to be better than I am" whilst in pursuit of humanness. It appears to be an innate, human desire to constantly better ourselves (and our appearance in turn). Perhaps expressing dissatisfaction motivates us to improve any given aspect, in order to make the most of what we do have. Still, it would be nice to embrace our natural beauty; I agree McKanna91.

[talecon]

I think the original poster makes a valid point. I've heard forever that women stress over their physical appearance way too much. I'm one of those people. I like doing my hair and makeup and try to look differently from day to day. I like variety. I'm one of those thin haired girls that wish it was thicker. Even yesterday my baby dad told me my hair is never going to be thicker, I just have thin hair *shrugs* and I don't think he meant it offensively, he was stating a fact that I was well aware of. I just want my hair to look as healthy as possible. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be healthier is there?
(oh and just to throw it in there I use the word boobs more often than breasts. I associate breasts with chicken breasts and everytime I hear it worded like that I picture food :p sorri but I dont think there was any real harm done)

[Aer]

I'll put my two cents in, I don't think the OP meant to offend anyone. Since he's new, we don't know him well or his personality/writing style, so it came off unfamiliarly blunt. Blunt is fine, but when it's from someone we are not used to, it can come off rude or harsh. Although I also see why some are offended if he was new or not.
I was not offended, I'm worried this thread may spiral into a train wreck, but it's also became a interesting thread about people and the debate if we dress for ourselves or others. I'll be honest, I dress to impress. I want my husband to find me attractive, and I know what he likes. But also if I was single I would dress well too. So do I dress for myself, or for another? It's fifty/fifty for me. If my husband came at me looking like a swamp monster, I would probably throw a sheet on him, and drag him to The Tyra Show for a makeover. I love him, and it's just not for me that I want him to be his best, and he feels the same way.
The quote about his wife growing out of her short hair thing did come off as offensive, but also he may not of meant it in the sense that she was a child. People at all ages grow. We go through phases in our twenties, forties,sixties, etc. I go through phases like the moon does. Two moons ago I went through a phase where I bought and collected a bunch of all natural room sprays. Now my closet smells like a health food store. Now I'm into red finger nail polish.
I don't know about the boobs remark, I'm not offended by it, but some people may connect negative feelings with that word. I call them that, or chest melons, but I don't mean them in a rude way, I personally feel the word breast makes it feel more like word I would hear at my doctors office, so the word feels cold, alien, and sterile to me. But thats my feeling on it.
I do know I wouldn't want anyone here to feel attacked, but at the same time I don't want anyone to feel uncomfortable either.

[tig-man]

If you're wondering why many women think they are so often inadequate...just look at TV, movies and magazines. Even underwear ads. Lately I saw a Victoria's Secret ad saying something like "I love my body". Well of course you do! You're a #$%@**& Victoria's Secret model, for heaven's sake!!

i've seen the same thing in the media, but i dont feel like i ought to look like them. judging by the Body Mass Index, i'm 45lbs overweight. i have no intent to loose 45lbs. 5lb, 10lb maybe (we're still talking less then 10% of my total body weight). I dont feel like i should take human growth hormone to look like the "hunks" on tv. i'm short and dumpy, i admit it, and i dont foresee the need to change it (unless for health reason).

now, if your perspective is that women look at the media and thinks guys only want victoria secret models... meh, if i really, reeeeaallly want that, i'd just rent one. wouldnt want to have something like that hanging around. I have a family member who IS a victoria secret model, and i've met several of her friends. I've also dated a CK model and have gotten to know a few of her friends... lets just say they belong only in the magazine ads.

remember, hot models are there to sell the product. you're suppose to want the PRODUCT, not want to look like the model.

[Chromis]

You're making me want to retract my previous statement, ravenreed. I'm not completely rejecting the notion of self-expression, but believe that most people truly wish to look presentable in public, i.e. for others also, and not solely themselves. I have noticed that there is a discrepancy between what is worn inside and outside the home with people who argue that they only wear makeup/dress for themselves. This is quite interesting, and I'd love more input.

On a different note, someone once said "I aspire to be better than I am" whilst in pursuit of humanness. It appears to be an innate, human desire to constantly better ourselves (and our appearance in turn). Perhaps expressing dissatisfaction motivates us to improve any given aspect, in order to make the most of what we do have. Still, it would be nice to embrace our natural beauty; I agree McKanna91.

Hmmm, if anything I dress up even more when I am just kicking around the house on weekends. I detest pyjamas and feel more comfortable in a dress and being at home means I can wear ones that get me funny looks in the grocery store and would be too over the top for the office. Same with make up. I play with bright eyeshadow looks more then too. You may not *see* me dressing up then since I'm at home, but that doesn't mean I don't do it!

My putting make up on has more to do with me having fun playing with it, since I have no problem leaving the house without it either. I normally have at least a little on though since I find that mineral makeup is a good sunblock on me.

[ravenreed]

First, presentable in public is NOT the same as looking for a mate. The OP focused a bit more on that aspect. I don't want to scare small children or get arrested for vagrancy. :p

On a more serious note-- We are social beings. We communicate many things by how we to choose to appear, in public and in private. I don't need to make a strong statement to myself, however. I know who I am. But when I say I dress out of self-expression, or only to please myself, part of that includes the communication of who I am to other people, by dress and appearance. So I might look different when I am with people than at home. That doesn't mean I am trying to impress or attract anyone. Does that clarify things?

I don't wear makeup all the time. I often do when I dress up to do something special. Just like I put on nice clothes, or do my hair in an elegant updo. I don't do those things at home because being at home isn't special.

I know people who wear makeup 24-7. As far as I am concerned, it is not healthy for the eyes and skin. I take my makeup off fairly soon after getting home because I have allergies, otherwise I would not bother so much. I also know people who get so called permanent makeup.

I don't see anything wrong with natural beauty, by the way. I went without makeup for years. I HATE the fashion industry with a passion, and the messages it gives women. Don't get me started or I will never stop. :rant: However, I don't want to be told what I cannot wear because we must all embrace our natural selves, either. There must be a happy medium somewhere?



You're making me want to retract my previous statement, ravenreed. I'm not completely rejecting the notion of self-expression, but believe that most people truly wish to look presentable in public, i.e. for others also, and not solely themselves. I have noticed that there is a discrepancy between what is worn inside and outside the home with people who argue that they only wear makeup/dress for themselves. This is quite interesting, and I'd love more input.

On a different note, someone once said "I aspire to be better than I am" whilst in pursuit of humanness. It appears to be an innate, human desire to constantly better ourselves (and our appearance in turn). Perhaps expressing dissatisfaction motivates us to improve any given aspect, in order to make the most of what we do have. Still, it would be nice to embrace our natural beauty; I agree McKanna91.

[tig-man]

OP, I understand your point. I think you got into trouble here because:

1. you're brand new, and we don't know if you're a troll or a well-meaning poster, and
2. you're male, and could even be a hair ******ist in addition to being a troll. Trust me: we've had both here.


Welcome to LHC. :)

thx for the welcome.

point taken on both 1 and 2. I've been in plenty of boards, never have i been the starter of such controversy. I also don think having a theme of "be glad with what you have, there are other people who would love to have YOUR hair" is troll-ish.

hair ******? really? wtf? hair?!?! i come here looking for information that i've been digging around for awhile but was unable to find. i'm sure we all have our own little "quirks" but i know where to go to find materials related to my "quirk" (its not hair)... besides, if i had hair ******, why would i bother posting? i dunno. takes all kinds i guess.

anyway, my point isn't meant to be derogatory, offensive, controversial, nor was i trying to get a rouse out of anyone. take it or leave it

[Nat242]

<snip>
wouldnt want to have something like that hanging around ... lets just say they belong only in the magazine ads. <snip>

Emphasis mine.

I don't want to jump all over you here, but let me point out what you just did, in case you're unaware.

In trying to emphasise that you support women who are "natural" or whatever, you're still judging women on their appearances and objectifying them. A woman, whether she is a gorgeous model or not, is not a "thing." Saying you "wouldn't want to have something like that hanging around" is *not* supportive of women. It harms us all.

You don't get to decide what a woman's place is. A woman may be gorgeous; that doesn't mean her only value is her appearance, nor does it mean she "belong[s] only in the magazine ads." By saying this, you're not only judging women based solely on their looks but you're also attempting to limit the choices women can make for themselves.

Again, you're not supporting us with your words here. You're belittling us.

[Altocumulus]

Thank you, Nat242. I was going to say the exact same thing.

[ravenreed]

tig-man, if you don't understand the difference between how men and women are portrayed in media then do this experiment. Watch how many older looking men you see playing leading roles, and see if there is an equal number of older looking women. How many 40-something men can have a 20-something woman and the reverse?

The larger women in the media are either constantly fighting their weight, like Oprah, or made fun of, like Rosy O'Donnell. (Or whatever the current crop of TV personalities is...) We don't really hear the same about larger men, do we?

Older men CAN hit the top 10 sexiest human list, while looking craggy and a bit creaky. The only way women can do it is if they haven't aged.

We get told, from a very small age, that we must be beautiful to attract a mate, be successful, be happy. TV is a large part of that, but so is all the other media. I am not surprised that a lot of women get hooked.

The reason for a hot model, by the way, depends on who the ads are focused on. You don't see hot almost naked women in ads for gay men. You see them in ads for straight men, because the underlying message to men is, "Buy this item to get women like this to notice you." You see hot women in ads for women because the message is, "Buy this item to look like this."


i've seen the same thing in the media, but i dont feel like i ought to look like them. judging by the Body Mass Index, i'm 45lbs overweight. i have no intent to loose 45lbs. 5lb, 10lb maybe (we're still talking less then 10% of my total body weight). I dont feel like i should take human growth hormone to look like the "hunks" on tv. i'm short and dumpy, i admit it, and i dont foresee the need to change it (unless for health reason).

now, if your perspective is that women look at the media and thinks guys only want victoria secret models... meh, if i really, reeeeaallly want that, i'd just rent one. wouldnt want to have something like that hanging around. I have a family member who IS a victoria secret model, and i've met several of her friends. I've also dated a CK model and have gotten to know a few of her friends... lets just say they belong only in the magazine ads.

remember, hot models are there to sell the product. you're suppose to want the PRODUCT, not want to look like the model.

[xoxophelia]

Sometimes it is said to communicate how beautiful you think someone's hair is and that you admire it. Doesn't have to mean you hate your own hair.

[Rhiannon7]

I know that sometimes i wish i had spirals and had the hair longer. but i am quite happy with my hair at the moment. besides i wonder if i did get my wish and suddenly woke up with spirals would i be trully happy? or would i be angry because the change is dramatic and i don't know what to do with it?

So i just smile, love my hair and protect, moisturize and pamper it as much as possible. but i doubt i will ever be completely happy with what i have. (chubby, great pale skin and short, ) but isn't life normal to wish for something you do not have? like it's normal to think ( i wish i looked like Angelina Jolie, or Dakota Fanning, Etc.) but you then have to look at yourself and see how you can make yourself look more like them, not with surgery or drugs etc. just looking at their personality and trying to gain confidence with yourself and your unique beauty. i mean even actresses and models are shy and have their parts that they hate about themselves. but that does not stop them from being atractive and beautiful and quite confident and strong.

So i think just pay attention to yourself and your environment, love what you have and learn the best way to make it attractive. besides i do not look good for any man, i look good for myself. if i use henna it's because i love how my hair looks and feels, not for a man. and when my hair is classic length or longer it's for me that it will be long, not for anyone else. (maybe i do need to lose weight, but not because of any man, but for myself and my health. ) i actually like myself the way i am, love my life and enjoy everything about me. whether i am fat, short or cannot wear heels. i would never change for anyone else, been there, done that! bought the t-shirt and never again!

[Marz Hase]

I am kinda disappointed in the reaction that the OP received! Granted, I know I'm new, but I get the sneaking suspicion that he wouldn't have been treated this way, were he another female poster.

Maybe it's because I get along with guys moreso than other women, but I didn't find his posts offensive in the least bit. I found them to be positive. They had a lovely "feel better about yourself" feel to them.

In all honesty, I find women to be much worse to women about appearances, ideals, media, etc. I'm not saying men don't ever have a hand in it, but usually the only time I hear degrading comments about a woman's weight, breast size, hair, clothing, makeup, etc comes from OTHER women.

Just my two cents.

[Avalin]

I think that maybe we should be happy with the things we can't change and do whatever we want with the things we can change. Problem is there isn't a lot you can't change with plastic surgery, hair dye, crash diets, etc. Not all of these things are bad but not all of them are healthy, either.

[Demetrue]

Part of being any kind of artist involves taking raw materials found in nature and changing them in order to fit the artist's creative vision. I see our bodies as wonderful tools that we use to manifest our creative visions - I see our hair or faces as outlets for our own self-expression. I believe that our bodies are under our own care to do with as we see fit. If our hair or bodies do not express our inner selves accurately, then we may experience a disconnect and the first step towards making a change is speaking about it. Our speaking about the possibility of change is a part of how we may move closer to our own creative vision of our lives and ourselves. I think that self-loathing is painful and distracting and siphons our energy BUT, speaking about where we are and where we want to go can be the first step on the journey to self-love. And self-love is not necessarily synonymous with all natural, or unchanged.

[liseling]

One thing that I find interesting here is the idea that some men think that the main reason women are concerned about how they look is because they want to look attractive to men. I forget who said so earlier, but I've also had a long debate with a male friend of mine that had this very opinion. When I told him that women might be a bit interested in what men think about their appearance, but that the main thing that induces them to spend so much energy on it is the society-driven fashion industry, he looked at me like I was crazy. I still dont think he believes me.

[Darian Moone]

Stepping out of this one...

[Lady Mary]

remember, hot models are there to sell the product. you're suppose to want the PRODUCT, not want to look like the model.

I have to disagree. When hot models are used to sell products to men, it is to get them to think perhaps if I purchase this, I will meet a beautiful woman like her, etc. It's not about wanting the product really, it's about wanting the model.

When the ad is marketed towards women, the hot model is an ideal we are supposed to want, they would like us to think if we purchase that product, we may look like, or at least more like, the beautiful model.


now, if your perspective is that women look at the media and thinks guys only want victoria secret models... meh, if i really, reeeeaallly want that, i'd just rent one. wouldnt want to have something like that hanging around. I have a family member who IS a victoria secret model, and i've met several of her friends. I've also dated a CK model and have gotten to know a few of her friends... lets just say they belong only in the magazine ads.

You would just "rent" one? I hope I am misunderstanding what you mean exactly by "renting" a model. :confused:

[sneakybea]

I really want to believe the original poster has good intentions, and I do think that the message of being happy with what we have is a good one. For the most part, I think I am happy with what I have, at least while we're talking hair.

However. . .

I don't personally like the assumption that we should be happy with what we have because somewhere there's a man who will like it. That's heteronormative, at the very least, and although maybe it wasn't intended that way, it does sound as if women worry about their appearance only to please men.

Even more troubling to me is this quote:


SWMBO has cut her hair (to shoulder length), colored it (blond), permed it... i married a waist length straight hair brunette, i want my money back. (emphasis mine).

Is a wife something you purchase? Can she be returned to the store when her appearance is no longer satisfactory? I know you're being facetious, but that phrase "I want my money back" has a really troubling tone to me. It's a shame that you don't like your wife's new look, but she has every right to change it--just like you do yours. She's a human being, and I'd hope you married her for more than just her hair. "Love's not love which alters when it alteration finds. . ."

Finally, I have to concur with Nat242's objection to the use of the phrase "something like that." I may not like the standards the models of Victoria's Secret seem to set for women, or the idolization of them in our society, but these models are still human beings, not "things".

[RecklessCharlie]

I am a little surprised at the response OP has gotten (by most, not all of responders)......
Give the guy a break- I don't think anything offensive was meant, in fact I think that his original intent (from how I read the post) was to give a guys viewpoint that 'we are okay the way we are'... while we may not be a board looking for tips on 'how to please a man, etc', I have seen PLENTY of posts lamenting body weight or whatever. I think what OP was trying to say was that men are not near as stressed about some of this stuff as a lot (not all) women are......

Can we maybe give him a break and not jump all over him for semantics? We have all used euphemisms for various bits (girl and boy).....

You just said everything I was going to :) Try not to be so sensitive ladies.
It is the OP's opinion and he's entitled to it (and I think he makes a very good point), if any of us posted OUR opinion on an issue and a guy (or anyone for that matter) game onto the thread and gave the type of responses that Tig-Man is getting, we'd be seriously offended! Let's not be hypocrites.

*two-cents placed on the proverbial table, now stepping away with some of the other LHCers*

[Lexy]

I think this has been discussed to death and has too much potential for argument. I'm closing it now.