Why Not Use Soybean Oil?

[OhMyCurlz]

I have a question, mostly out of curiosity. I noticed a lot of people use Jojoba, Coconut oil, Avocado Oil, and Castor on their hair, leaving out the most convenient oil...soy. Why not? Has anyone else tried it? I know soy is in some of Giovanni's products (not sure if it's soy protein or soy oil), and I've used it personally and LOVED it. It's fairly light on my hair and puts a nice shine that lasts a long time similar to dimethicone (at least on my hair). It's a good sealant and mixed with coconut oil has pretty much saved my hair for hot oiling, and I use it in my emulsions too. So...is anyone else using soy or has had good experiences with it?

[spidermom]

Coconut and avocado oil are widely used because the hair can actually absorb them. I don't know much about soy oil, but if you like the results, keep on keeping on.

[Centelleo]

Given its availability, I'm surprised that it isn't used more often but I suppose using vegetable oil doesn't have quite the same ring as some of the others you mentioned.

I try not to buy too many single use products other than an essential oil or high quality carrier here and there so many of my hair/body oils double as cooking oil: extra virgin olive oil, virgin coconut oil, sunflower, untoasted sesame, argan (food-grade), and grapeseed (although I'm phasing this out due to high pesticide levels found in most commercial grape harvests & seed oil production).

Virgin coconut oil is great for cooking as well as a natural anti-fungal supplement. As far as hair application use, it's one of the best hair oils since it is actually able to penetrate the hair shaft and helps prevent protein loss. Plus, the natural scent of unrefined coconut oil is pretty hard to beat!

I don't cook with castor or jojoba (and I'm not even sure you can) but their natural properties make them desirable for skin and hair use, as well as alternative home remedies: castor oil for laxative purposes and suffocating the all too common hair follicle (demodex) mites that inhibit hair growth; jojoba oil's similarity to our skin's natural sebum makes it a good choice for a lightweight oil cleanser and moisturizer, especially for the scalp (although some people prefer to use it on the length).

Avocado oil (unrefined) has a much higher vitamin E content than soy oil and it's considered less comedogenic.

Also, there are so many conflicting studies as to whether or not soy oil contains phytoestrogens, which can be absorbed through the skin. That's an important factor to consider for people undergoing hormone replacement therapy or with synthetic hormone sensitivity.

[Anje]

I haven't tried it, but now I might have to. I think I have some in my pantry.

Of the oils I've tried so far, my favorite is sesame (recommended to me by Mira-chan). My hair sucks it up a bit more than it does coconut and olive oil, and it adds a nice amount of slip and shine. Plus it's another grocery store oil, which I consider a selling point.

[AmericanWoman]

When I first started using oils, back 5 years ago, I started with shortening (, which was hydrogenated Cottonseed and soybean oil. It worked ok for me. I've also used a soybean and olive oil blend I got at Dollar Tree.

[shawty]

I think there was a study concluding that soybean oil, when applied topically, slows hair's growth and makes it grow in finer. That is probably why it is infrequently used on head hair, but the study was referring to body hair, so I think that as long as you are only applying it to the ends and not the roots, it will have no negative effects. =)

[lastnite]

good question.. I know it's one of the first oils in the Africa's Best oil people like in the other thread. What about canola oil? I see that in some products too! I wonder if they are cheap filler oils like how mineral oil is used?

[dropinthebucket]

This article is mostly about soybean oil on skin - i ran into it while looking up how to treat eczema - but there might be some useful info. for hair:
http://www.improvingyourworld.com/health/how_soybean_oil_can_help_skin_002000.html

And this article at LiveStrong.com claims that soybean oil stimulates hair growth.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/112756-using-soybean-oil-hair-growth/

However, this article at FutureDerm, says that soybean oil used on the skin reduces the number of hair follicles!
http://www.futurederm.com/2007/12/15/spotlight-on-soy-extract/

[littlenvy]

This article is mostly about soybean oil on skin - i ran into it while looking up how to treat eczema - but there might be some useful info. for hair:
http://www.improvingyourworld.com/health/how_soybean_oil_can_help_skin_002000.html

And this article at LiveStrong.com claims that soybean oil stimulates hair growth.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/112756-using-soybean-oil-hair-growth/

However, this article at FutureDerm, says that soybean oil used on the skin reduces the number of hair follicles!
http://www.futurederm.com/2007/12/15/spotlight-on-soy-extract/
WOW! Talk about two opposites :confused:
I do remember hearing thay soy and vitamin E will thin out the hair follicles prevent them from growing. And then I found this article too, that claims that soy prevents baldness :

http://www.scq.ubc.ca/soybean-and-baldness-preventation-apparently-there-is-a-link/

hhmmm .. the plot thickens :p

[lastnite]

hmm... guess I'll avoid it, better safe than sorry since I don't have alot of hair to risk getting thinner. :lol:

[OhMyCurlz]

This just lets you know how unreliable the internet can be when finding the truth about ingredients. Everything is so extreme. It's either "This ingredient will give you cancer and make your hair fall out" or ""This ingredient is a hidden gem and will make your hair grow in a matter of seconds!". Here's an article I found on Soybean oil preventing baldness.

http://www.scq.ubc.ca/soybean-and-baldness-preventation-apparently-there-is-a-link/

I don't believe any of it honestly. It's a carrier oil not an essential oil or herb. It adds shine to my hair in mixes and an herbal butter I use for growth actually has soy at the beginning of the list (my hair has been in the best condition now than it has in a while since I've been putting it on my ends and scalp actually).

I just thought there was some reason regarding past experiences as to why people didn't use soy oil. Like heavy feel or something. It's so easy to come by I don't see the harm in giving it a try. It does work well (just as well) as other carrier oils..it's really underrated. :)

To boot suppliers who sell different types of butters actually mix it (hydrogenated soy) with other oils and receive rave reviews. Soy is the active ingredient because it's more of it. I know a lot of 4 types were also using it as a sealant.

This article is mostly about soybean oil on skin - i ran into it while looking up how to treat eczema - but there might be some useful info. for hair:
http://www.improvingyourworld.com/health/how_soybean_oil_can_help_skin_002000.html

And this article at LiveStrong.com claims that soybean oil stimulates hair growth.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/112756-using-soybean-oil-hair-growth/

However, this article at FutureDerm, says that soybean oil used on the skin reduces the number of hair follicles!
http://www.futurederm.com/2007/12/15/spotlight-on-soy-extract/

[Milui Elenath]

I have never seen soybean oil, perhaps its not popular in my country. I don't generally look at the vegetable oil section of the grocery store but still I've never noticed it. I've just looked up my local store online and no they don't sell it.

I do know that soybean is frequently genetically modified, also the oil is often hydrolised and I imagine it might be difficult to obtain an organic variety.
I prefer all my oils cold pressed - can soybean oil even be obtained via cold pressing?

[Velouria]

Soybean oil can't be obtained by cold-pressing, or even by expeller pressing with heat. The only way it can be extracted is chemically, by using a solvent. Hexane, a pretty nasty petrochemical, is what is generally used.

[Bluegrass Babe]

Wow, dropinthebucket! That is cool information. Especially these parts:

shown in independent research studies to exhibit both anti-inflammatory and antioxidant properties, and to stimulate the production of collagen and hyaluronic acid...

increase the firmness, elasticity, and suppleness of skin. These findings have been affirmed in this 2005 study in the journal of Photochemistry and Photobiology, which further reported that use of soy extract twice daily for two weeks reduced the number of hair follicles (dermal papillae) on the skin.

2000 study in the journal Dermatology that human trials demonstrate lightening of hyperpigmentation after use of soybean extract for two weeks.

This sounds great for the Oil Cleansing Method! (I heard some women had increased facial hair from the usually used castor oil.) But on the other hand, I wouldn't want my eyelashes or eyebrows to be thinned - I guess careful application would be key.

Here's the conflicting part:

some soy-containing products have estrogenic effects, which can make this form of melasma (darkening of the skin) worse.

As to using soybean oil on the hair - I would keep it away from the scalp (just in case), but on the length it should be fine.

I think Milui Elenath and Velouria definately hit the nail on the head with this one.
Most soybeans are genetically modified. It is very hard to find any soy product that states "non GMO" except at specialty stores. And most who know about how oils are obtained (I found out on LHC) want to avoid chemical solvents.

[Diamond.Eyes]

I recommend coconut oil to a friend at school once, and she ended up buying cooking (soybean) oil because it was cheaper...it ended up leaving a very wavy residue on her hair. It didn't absorb into her cortex at all. She had to go to the salon for a clarifying treatment. :( I never really recommend natural hair products to my friends anymore because they never really listen.

[ratgirldjh]

I myself am afraid of soybean oil. I don't like the idea of GMO soybeans and I don't even trust that soy is good for you at all.

When I was in peri menopause I once had my period for 2 weeks straight. Finally in desperation I went to the pharmacy and looked at the OTC pills for women going through the change of life and ALL of them had soy as the main ingredient. So I just went and bought a carton of soymilk and drank 1 glass.

Less than an hour later my period stopped - AND NEVER RETURNED!!! Is that some powerful stuff or what???

It literally made me believe the phyto estrogen things that I've read and I stay away from it now.

Also soybeans (not sure about oil) are supposed to slow the thyroid gland hormone production.

And about the oil - I've read both that it is good for hair and that if you use it on your shaved skin it will deter hair from growing back. Same with lard for some reason! But people use Crisco (and lard or I have) a lot on their skin and hair so I don't know... but I don't want to :)

If anyone has good luck with it please post!

[PolarCathy]

I myself am afraid of soybean oil. I don't like the idea of GMO soybeans and I don't even trust that soy is good for you at all.

When I was in peri menopause I once had my period for 2 weeks straight. Finally in desperation I went to the pharmacy and looked at the OTC pills for women going through the change of life and ALL of them had soy as the main ingredient. So I just went and bought a carton of soymilk and drank 1 glass.

Less than an hour later my period stopped - AND NEVER RETURNED!!! Is that some powerful stuff or what???

It literally made me believe the phyto estrogen things that I've read and I stay away from it now.

Also soybeans (not sure about oil) are supposed to slow the thyroid gland hormone production.

And about the oil - I've read both that it is good for hair and that if you use it on your shaved skin it will deter hair from growing back. Same with lard for some reason! But people use Crisco (and lard or I have) a lot on their skin and hair so I don't know... but I don't want to :)

If anyone has good luck with it please post!

This!! I don't touch anything soy except for fermented soy sauces that are guaranteed non-GMO. (Hard to avoid because it's in everything.) No soybean oil for me either.

[cmg]

This just lets you know how unreliable the internet can be when finding the truth about ingredients. Everything is so extreme. It's either "This ingredient will give you cancer and make your hair fall out" or ""This ingredient is a hidden gem and will make your hair grow in a matter of seconds!".
Indeed, there is a lot of info that goes like that. Thats why it is important to check the references. More often than not, some writer has misinterpreted or overrated some findings in a report somewhere or taken them out of context.

I can't find soy oil in my country, but I have seen it mixed with other oils in massage products. I bought it in Germany once, and it pulled out my henndigo completely (not intended :o I'm not the only one who this happened to. I think it's not sold so often here because of all the people allergic to peanuts.

I have used canola oil (mostly it's not labelled separately, but sold as rape seed oil) for homemade shower products, but I havent put it in my hair yet. I don't care very much for the smell.

/ CMG

[Fethenwen]

WOW! Talk about two opposites :confused:
I do remember hearing thay soy and vitamin E will thin out the hair follicles prevent them from growing. And then I found this article too, that claims that soy prevents baldness :

http://www.scq.ubc.ca/soybean-and-baldness-preventation-apparently-there-is-a-link/

hhmmm .. the plot thickens :p
lol, it seems whatever that has to do with soy we get conflicting results and a lot of emotion. My Africa's best carrot Tea tree oil therapy has it as a main ingredient, I use it as a body lotion, heavenly stuff for my skin. It's a little too thick for my hair, I get build up easily.

[raingirl]

Given its availability, I'm surprised that it isn't used more often but I suppose using vegetable oil doesn't have quite the same ring as some of the others you mentioned.


I've never seen soy/soybean oil in stores. We have canola oil mostly in stores, the peanut and corn oil.

[raingirl]

Soybean oil can't be obtained by cold-pressing, or even by expeller pressing with heat. The only way it can be extracted is chemically, by using a solvent. Hexane, a pretty nasty petrochemical, is what is generally used.

Wow...note to self - avoid soybean oil.

[cmg]

That's not true. The soy bean oil is often pressed out.

Wikipedia is funny sometimes. Just because it isn't mentioned there, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It says in WIkipedia also that it is the most sold cooking oil in the world ?? I have lived in many countries and I couldn't find it in any of them :o Another info that wasn't complete. The pressed oil as well as the press leftover-cake is often used in animal food (pellets and such for lifestock for example). Also there is no mentioning about the issues with GMO.

/ CMG

[ChloeDharma]

Thinking about the promotion of hair growth on the head but reduction in other places could it be that hair that grows on the face, legs etc is caused by testosterone and the soya's phytoestrogens inhibit that. Then hair that grows on the head is promoted by estrogen so the phytoestrogens in the soya oil promote that?

It does sound quite nice to use a bit like a serum maybe. It may not do the job of coconut oil but sometimes sitting on the surface protecting the hair is what you want.

[Unofficial_Rose]

Thinking about the promotion of hair growth on the head but reduction in other places could it be that hair that grows on the face, legs etc is caused by testosterone and the soya's phytoestrogens inhibit that. Then hair that grows on the head is promoted by estrogen so the phytoestrogens in the soya oil promote that?

It does sound quite nice to use a bit like a serum maybe. It may not do the job of coconut oil but sometimes sitting on the surface protecting the hair is what you want.

Oh, interesting theory and sounds logical!

I always have soya milk in tea, I'm 48 and I (TMI warning) have never yet missed a period. I prefer the taste to cow's milk but maybe it's unhealthy?

I have some of the Africa's best oil but I didn't like it much on my hair. If I find someone who likes it I will give it to them. Olive oil is amazing as a pre-wash treatment though.

[spirals]

I've never seen soy/soybean oil in stores. We have canola oil mostly in stores, the peanut and corn oil.
Because it's usually labelled as "vegetable oil." If you look at the ingredients it says soybean oil.

[kaydana]

I've never seen this type of oil in shops, I don't think it's widely available in my country. I have been wondering if rapeseed oil (the main ingredient in our vegetable oils) would work well on hair though.

[ratgirldjh]

Places to find soybean oil:

Oils that just say 'Vegetable oil' often are either 100% soybean or soybean mixed with other oils, esp. cheap oils
Crisco and generic shortenings

Any oil that doesn't tell you what it is is probably soybean oil. :(

[afu]

soybean oil isn't common where I live which is my major reason for not trying it

[cmg]

Calling something "vegetable oil" is not allowed in my country. It would imply hiding true ingredients or possibility of adding lesser quality ingredients.

Also Qrisco is not available here, had to look it up. Similar products are available in Germany though, usually of animal origin, not plant source.

This showes one of the issues with people talking about various products mentioned here on LHC. They aren't always available where you live or the similar ones available are made of something entirely different. Baby oils for example, are not often made of mineral oil here in Sweden. But usually when people discuss baby oil they mean mineral oil.

/ CMG

[Stephbaker]

Given its availability, I'm surprised that it isn't used more often but I suppose using vegetable oil doesn't have quite the same ring as some of the others you mentioned.

I try not to buy too many single use products other than an essential oil or high quality carrier here and there so many of my hair/body oils double as cooking oil: extra virgin olive oil, virgin coconut oil, sunflower, untoasted sesame, argan (food-grade), and grapeseed (although I'm phasing this out due to high pesticide levels found in most commercial grape harvests & seed oil production).

Virgin coconut oil is great for cooking as well as a natural anti-fungal supplement. As far as hair application use, it's one of the best hair oils since it is actually able to penetrate the hair shaft and helps prevent protein loss. Plus, the natural scent of unrefined coconut oil is pretty hard to beat!

I don't cook with castor or jojoba (and I'm not even sure you can) but their natural properties make them desirable for skin and hair use, as well as alternative home remedies: castor oil for laxative purposes and suffocating the all too common hair follicle (demodex) mites that inhibit hair growth; jojoba oil's similarity to our skin's natural sebum makes it a good choice for a lightweight oil cleanser and moisturizer, especially for the scalp (although some people prefer to use it on the length).

Avocado oil (unrefined) has a much higher vitamin E content than soy oil and it's considered less comedogenic. Soybean is becoming so overated due to it multi usage that you can find it everywhere. The soybean oil market (https://www.beroeinc.com/category-intelligence/soybean-oil-market/) has increased due to the various health benefits provided by soybean oil.

Also, there are so many conflicting studies as to whether or not soy oil contains phytoestrogens, which can be absorbed through the skin. That's an important factor to consider for people undergoing hormone replacement therapy or with synthetic hormone sensitivity.

After reading the posts in this thread, I started researching about Soybean oil and the benefits of using it are endless. I am a virgin coconut oil user and preferred it that way. I totally agree with what you said about coconut oil. It keeps the hair shaft really healthy. But as I researched and read more about soybean oil, I wanted to use it and see the difference. To my surprise, soybean oil works great for my hair type. It retains moisture and my hair feels so light. I read that the lipids in the oil helps the hair absorb the oil much better. And I just used such a small quantity (I have waist length hair)! I agree that avocado has a higher Vitamin E content but then I am really glad that soybean oil does, too, cause it is like a added benefit. I thinnk the best part is that the oil is non-greasy and this really makes it the winner for me. I really didn't want to give up coconut oil but I guess soybean oil is it, thanks to this thread. But your post really covered the various kinds of oil and thanks for that. I might start alternating between oils to keep my hair and scalp healthy!

[MusicalSpoons]

I've never seen soybean oil over here, not even online (or peanut, for that matter). Our 'vegetable oil' is usually rapeseed, sometimes sunflower or a mix.

[Pacific]

I use non GMO soybean oil for cooking maybe I'll give it a try for hair, too.

[Liz_H]

30 years ago, soy was widely promoted as a health food. I bought some sort oil at a health food/supplement store. This was long before the estrogenic effects were widely known. Today some parents still have their kids drink soymilk. (Shudder)

[Reluctantlylong]

Hey 😟I drink soy milk the beans are organic ( grown in Europe), and maybe I would make a different choice if I had boys but my two that are Dairy allergies drink soy as most other plant milks have no protein. And as a 47 year old woman a little extra estrogen is okay, but we don’t drink litres of any milk mostly cooking and cereal 🥣.
Back to the topic OILS
Some folks find coconut oil makes their hair crunchy, is that the proteins ( nutrition label says 0 proteins if eating it).
I once had a roommate with severe eczema and she used regular vegetable oil in her bath doctor recommended. Instead of baby oil I guess it might be better but with vegetables oil and soybean oil it is usually conventional agriculture, heat extracted oil in the grocery store that is what my concern, how it made rather than what.
Castor is a flower seed like rape seed and sunflower 🌻.

[Groovy Granny]

I have seen and used soy bean oil blends with other oils for hair and skin (avocado/olive/jojoba) and it has worked great for my fine wispy silver as a ROO.

ETA: I don't use them on dry hair because I dislike the smell of oils unless frgrant EOs are added, :p but as a ROO with a conditioner and leave ins applied after, the smell is gone.

In fact today while shopping I was looking at oils in my hair mask (almond and olive) and just the thought of using them alone made me :puke: :lol:

[Reluctantlylong]

Been reading labels a lot more than usual this long weekend in Canada, soybean oils are in a couple of the things I use. Why not in in hand mixed?😁

[jane_marie]

I was searching the forum for information on soy free products and found this thread.

Despite all of the other reasons listed I think a good reason to not use soy is that it is a very common allergen. If you have soy on your hair that just sits there it can get on other surfaces and cause allergy suffers issues. This is the same reason that I don't use nut oils in my hair. I would hate for my hair oil to send someone with a tree nut allergy to the hospital.

I haven't seen it mentioned here so I wanted to bring it up for those that are thinking about using soy oil for hair.

[Pacific]

I never lean on my head on anything outside my apartment and nobody is touching my hair, I don't think that's a risk at all. Maybe if my children were little and had an allergy but in that case my home would be free of those oils.

[jane_marie]

Okay. I think it's still something that others should consider. Some one who works in a medical environment or child care, for example maybe shouldn't be slathering themselves with a major allergen. It's also something to consider if the person lives in a country that does not have a free or universal healthcare system.

I don't really want to pay a 1000 dollar ER bill because someone had to reput up their hair in the grocery store and didn't wash their hands. :shrug:

[MusicalSpoons]

I never lean on my head on anything outside my apartment and nobody is touching my hair, I don't think that's a risk at all. Maybe if my children were little and had an allergy but in that case my home would be free of those oils.


Okay. I think it's still something that others should consider. Some one who works in a medical environment or child care, for example maybe shouldn't be slathering themselves with a major allergen. It's also something to consider if the person lives in a country that does not have a free or universal healthcare system.

I don't really want to pay a 1000 dollar ER bill because someone had to reput up their hair in the grocery store and didn't wash their hands. :shrug:

I can see both sides here. My conclusion would be basically, if you're leaving anything in your hair that could be a major allergen, be mindful - e.g. make sure it's up in a super-secure bun that won't need fiddling with outside your home, and wash your hands if you have to touch it. And don't lean on things (but then if your hair is oily, you probably don't want to be leaning on anything anyway!)

I did not know that soy was a common allergen, although having encountered various people online I am aware that people can be allergic to literally anything (even to specific brands of compressed oxygen - yes really! Exceedingly unhelpful when needing oxygen in the middle of anaphylaxis) so I'm not surprised. But at the same time, we can't just not use things because we know that people could be allergic to them, *because* literally anything can be an allergen. More and more people are finding they are very allergic to coconut so by that same reasoning they should be asking people not to use coconut oil?

Medical and child care though, I can absolutely agree with. I recall reading one thread where a member mentioned they had a child in their class with a nut allergy so they made sure not to use any nut oils.

[jane_marie]

I can see both sides here. My conclusion would be basically, if you're leaving anything in your hair that could be a major allergen, be mindful - e.g. make sure it's up in a super-secure bun that won't need fiddling with outside your home, and wash your hands if you have to touch it. And don't lean on things (but then if your hair is oily, you probably don't want to be leaning on anything anyway!)

I did not know that soy was a common allergen, although having encountered various people online I am aware that people can be allergic to literally anything (even to specific brands of compressed oxygen - yes really! Exceedingly unhelpful when needing oxygen in the middle of anaphylaxis) so I'm not surprised. But at the same time, we can't just not use things because we know that people could be allergic to them, *because* literally anything can be an allergen. More and more people are finding they are very allergic to coconut so by that same reasoning they should be asking people not to use coconut oil?

Medical and child care though, I can absolutely agree with. I recall reading one thread where a member mentioned they had a child in their class with a nut allergy so they made sure not to use any nut oils.

As I understand it soy being a major allergen in the US is due to the the fact that it is in almost all of our off the shelf foods. Constant exposure equates to elevated risk of allergies.
In the US so is listed as one of the top eight allergies along side peanuts, shellfish, milk, eggs, fish, and wheat.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the commonality of soy allergies (at least in the US) is... significant. It's not really comparable to something like people who are allergic to compressed oxygen or even coconut products. It's a big deal that effects a very large amount of people.

I can speak from experience that even walking into a restaurant that uses Soybean oil in their fryers regularly causes me to get huge welts and hives all over my body.

Like I said, I won't be using peanut oil or almond oil because I want people to not have an extra medical bill which is extremely expensive for anyone here... especially people without insurance. I really think a major difference in the mindset is due to access to healthcare. Both of you, form what I see live in countries where healthcare is free or universal. Here many people cannot afford an expense like an ER trip and some poorer people here would rather risk taking a handful of benadryl than be in debt for years since medical debt can ruin your credit making housing difficult to come by.

A difference in culture I suppose.

[MusicalSpoons]

As I understand it soy being a major allergen in the US is due to the the fact that it is in almost all of our off the shelf foods. Constant exposure equates to elevated risk of allergies.
In the US so is listed as one of the top eight allergies along side peanuts, shellfish, milk, eggs, fish, and wheat.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the commonality of soy allergies (at least in the US) is... significant. It's not really comparable to something like people who are allergic to compressed oxygen or even coconut products. It's a big deal that effects a very large amount of people.

I can speak from experience that even walking into a restaurant that uses Soybean oil in their fryers regularly causes me to get huge welts and hives all over my body.

Like I said, I won't be using peanut oil or almond oil because I want people to not have an extra medical bill which is extremely expensive for anyone here... especially people without insurance. I really think a major difference in the mindset is due to access to healthcare. Both of you, form what I see live in countries where healthcare is free or universal. Here many people cannot afford an expense like an ER trip and some poorer people here would rather risk taking a handful of benadryl than be in debt for years since medical debt can ruin your credit making housing difficult to come by.

A difference in culture I suppose.

I understand. The difference in mindset for me was not realising how much of an allergen it is over there - I've only recently seen soybean oil as an ingredient in toiletries over here, and still not seen it for sale as a product by itself.

My online encounters with people who are very allergic to various things have mostly been with people from the US so I am very aware that medical care can bankrupt a person even if they have insurance, though I realise that I'm not fully aware of all the implications of that (probably because here the welfare system is a security net - people still find it very difficult to survive but the vast majority of people don't have to decide between rent or food every month). So I am not blasé to medical risks, just didn't fully understand what a risk soy is.

The other factor is that I guess I'm used to people taking precautions like carrying around meds in case they have a reaction to try to prevent it from becoming full-blown anaphylaxis, and wearing gloves and/or masks if they are extremely sensitive to things to try to prevent reactions in the first place. So I suppose I don't fully see why taking a handful of benadryl is a problem if it does the job? If it doesn't do the job then obviously yes I see the problem in that case.


I am also curious, if I may ask, is it a problem if someone uses handcream containing soy then touches things? Or is it not found in many skin/hair products there because it is one of the top allergens?

[jane_marie]

Yeah, it's sort of a big concern over here and one that is overlooked and underlabeled. For example the cafeteria at my uni labels all allergens but soy despite it being known as a top 8 allergen. When I have asked cafeteria coordinators what items I can eat I found out that the answer was fruit and... nothing else. It's bizarre.

Welfare in the US is controlled by state government and states vary widely in how much aid they give. Conservative states tend to have more income inequality and a higher percentage of poverty per capita. They also tend to have the worst welfare programs.

Benadryl does work but not fast enough and not in the doses indicated on the label. Taking too much can result in vomiting, hallucinations, seizures, and comas. In my 20s I once had a reaction and took 15 total within a 2 hour time span and ended up going to the ER anyway because I kept losing my balance and falling. In the US epi pens are very expensive without insurance. I looked into getting one but prices ranged between 600 and 700 dollars.

I guess I don't really agree that people with sensitivities should have to wear gloves to avoid allergens if they are common. It seems like overkill... I mean, it's not exactly the same but I would put that into the same category as people not wearing masks because at risk people should be the ones navigating COVID.

I have certainly had reactions from sharing pens and such with a friend that uses a soy laden lotion. That said I also have an allergy to a fairly common chemical used for fragrance so I can't say which caused the reaction. Either way I have learned that it is best for me to carry an extra pen and pencil so that if someone needs to borrow one I can just give it to them.

[MusicalSpoons]

Yeah, it's sort of a big concern over here and one that is overlooked and underlabeled. For example the cafeteria at my uni labels all allergens but soy despite it being known as a top 8 allergen. When I have asked cafeteria coordinators what items I can eat I found out that the answer was fruit and... nothing else. It's bizarre.

Welfare in the US is controlled by state government and states vary widely in how much aid they give. Conservative states tend to have more income inequality and a higher percentage of poverty per capita. They also tend to have the worst welfare programs.

Benadryl does work but not fast enough and not in the doses indicated on the label. Taking too much can result in vomiting, hallucinations, seizures, and comas. In my 20s I once had a reaction and took 15 total within a 2 hour time span and ended up going to the ER anyway because I kept losing my balance and falling. In the US epi pens are very expensive without insurance. I looked into getting one but prices ranged between 600 and 700 dollars.

I guess I don't really agree that people with sensitivities should have to wear gloves to avoid allergens if they are common. It seems like overkill... I mean, it's not exactly the same but I would put that into the same category as people not wearing masks because at risk people should be the ones navigating COVID.

I have certainly had reactions from sharing pens and such with a friend that uses a soy laden lotion. That said I also have an allergy to a fairly common chemical used for fragrance so I can't say which caused the reaction. Either way I have learned that it is best for me to carry an extra pen and pencil so that if someone needs to borrow one I can just give it to them.

Oh man that's terrible! Even here soy is bolded as an allergen (along with things like celery and mustard, as well as the more obvious ones like milk, gluten, eggs, etc.)

Thanks for your patience and taking the time to explain all this :flower:

I agree especially with the part in bold - common allergens ought to be relatively easy to avoid. In terms of gloves and masks, that comes under what's proportionate to what the person is sensitive to, and how sensitive, and to the severity of consequences. For the people that do, it *is* proportionate for them, but it should absolutely not be an expectation for everyone with common allergies. Ultimately we do all have an individual responsibility for our own health, particularly when our issues are more complex or unusual and we can't expect people to just know about them - but if there are ways in which society can make life safer (such as restaurants telling you up-front which oil(s) they use so you know whether it's safe to even enter) then we should. That often includes the little things that we wouldn't otherwise consider in daily life, some things that are little to no cost to ourselves, some things that take a little effort but which is far outweighed by the reward of making life immeasurably better for others. It's about community consideration (which also encompasses the whole 'trying to keep everyone safe from COVID but especially protecting the most vulnerable' :))

Sorry, that was a real ramble! But you've definitely made me think about something I'd not really considered before.

[jane_marie]

No need to apologize. I found this to be a pleasant chat.

I'm sorry I derailed another thread. At least this one is ancient. :lol:

I just think it's important to get the info out there so that people that are in the US and might come across the thread know that there is a potential to ruin another persons day, week, month etc.

I hope you have a nice day Spoons. :)

[Pacific]

Thank's for explaining, jane_marie. Health Care isn't completely free here but I guess it's cheaper than in the US. Of course I don't want to harm anybody. But I don't have much physically contact to others beside from my family and I don't touch or redo my hair outside.
On the other hand I usually don't go out at all with oil in my hair. But I see many women with oiled hair. I never thought about what kind of oil they are using.
I didn't know that so many people in the US have a soy bean allergy. Here it's a cheap and common oil for cooking, you can get it everywhere.

[squirrrel]

I've never seen this type of oil in shops, I don't think it's widely available in my country. I have been wondering if rapeseed oil (the main ingredient in our vegetable oils) would work well on hair though.

Yep... I just went into the ingredient lists of one grocery store‘s vegetable oils and they all specify 100% rapeseed oil, beyond one which suggests it is supposed to be healthier and has red palm oil blended in. As I find the rapeseed as likely to make me sneeze as grass pollen (I cannot stand rapeseed; disgusting stuff!) I shall steer well clear of it.