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Sana
May 1st, 2008, 08:49 AM
How frequently should one clarify hair & are there any natural ways to clarify hair? I did mine today....for the first time. Used sauve & seemed fine. Also does clarify strip hair of henna? I always notice that when I ACV rinse , there is some color being washed out but didn't see any today with clarifying shampoo.

Mary <><
May 1st, 2008, 08:59 AM
I clarify about 1 time every 3-4 weeks using baking soda (mixed with shampoo & water) and/or ACV. I do not use henna, so I am not sure about it stripping color. HTH!

yogachic
May 1st, 2008, 09:05 AM
I have the Suave Clarifying shampoo also, and It says its gentle enough for daily use. Although I only use it once every two weeks or so.

aisling
May 1st, 2008, 09:07 AM
You clarify your hair when it needs clarifying and there is no set rule, nobody can say how often you need to clarify or if you need to do it. Some people get problem with buildup, others don't.

Signs of buildup can be dry ends that tangle whatever you do, stick to each other like velcro immediately after detangling or very soon. They can also feel quite sharp, like needles. Tangling and such can also be a sign of much damage, but clarifying is a good place to start. Another sign of buildup is lank, lifeless, stringy, greasy looking hair that normal washing doesn't seem to clean.

About henna, no idea as I don't use it.

heidi w.
May 1st, 2008, 09:29 AM
There is no necessity to clarify on a particular schedule. I recommend clarifying the hair on an as-needed basis. Remember, clarifying strips the hair of all applied product, although not color. It removes grime, buildup from product, minerals in water, sebum. It only removes what's been applied to the surface of hair strands, nothing at the cortex level (which color typically is).

Using a store purchased clarify shampoo is fine. IF you want to do a home recipe, one is Baking Soda blended with your choice of shampoo. Equal parts. I use 3 Tablespoons Baking Soda with 3 Tablespoons of my soda. Blend very well so there are no lumps. It should become more creamy, and there may be a hue depending on your shampoo (such as if it has colorants in it).

I like to wet the hair thoroughly and first do one normal shampoo to begin the process of breaking up the surface tension that happens when sebum is present.

I also like to pre-detangle my hair of course and scritch the scalp skin prior to a hair wash, especially a clarify hair wash, because of part of clarifying is to also really get that scalp skin CLEAN.

Note of Importance: When you clarify, any method, including this Baking Soda version, it is VITAL that one condition quite well as part of this kind of hair wash or the hair may end up a little fly-away, a funny texture (all stuff stripped off!!), static-y perhaps. Clarifying strips the hair and without conditioning this is the result. That means it worked, but many make the error of not conditioning well or at all and think something is wrong. It's not. It worked, but it's important to REPLACE WHAT'S BEEN REMOVED and begin fresh again.

Also, good rinsing is important.

Many people make the mistake thinking an ACV Rinse is a clarify hair wash. It is not. Not strictly speaking. A clarify hair wash is intended to remove stuff that has had an opportunity to dry on the surface of hair strands, and build, over time. If one performs an ACV Rinse as a clarify hair wash they will likely end up with tacky and probably more tangly hair. Nothing has been removed and likely the ACV kinda attached to the buildup.

What an ACV RINSE DOES DO is that it can remove any product, or minerals from water that are still hanging around in that specific hair wash while the hair is wet. It's a rinse, a way of removing stuff off the hair in that specific hair wash that was applied. ACV Rinse also

binds the cuticle -- that is helps one's cuticles to lie closer and tighter together thus helping to create somewhat softer hair for one's hair type (curlier, the cuticle is more open, for example, so such a texture may feel coarser than compared to a straight-haired person).

removes minerals off the hair from the water used in that hair wash

applies an acidic product to scalp skin and thus helps to set the acid mantle at the proper pH (shampoos and conditioners tend to create an alkali state on the scalp skin)

the malic acid is beneficial for scalp skin

can help resolve itchy scalp skin

While in a context one can argue that well, that's clarifying, it's ONLY FOR THAT HAIR WASH. ACV RINSE DOES NOT REMOVE BUILDUP ACQUIRED OVER TIME. Once something has dried on the strands of hair, ACV will NOT remove it.

Therefore I try to take care and not use the term 'clarify' when discussing ACV Rinse. It is confusing to many to mix terms this way.

heidi w.

heidi w.
May 1st, 2008, 09:32 AM
You clarify your hair when it needs clarifying and there is no set rule, nobody can say how often you need to clarify or if you need to do it. Some people get problem with buildup, others don't.

Signs of buildup can be dry ends that tangle whatever you do, stick to each other like velcro immediately after detangling or very soon. They can also feel quite sharp, like needles. Tangling and such can also be a sign of much damage, but clarifying is a good place to start. Another sign of buildup is lank, lifeless, stringy, greasy looking hair that normal washing doesn't seem to clean.

About henna, no idea as I don't use it.

Another big sign of needing to clarify is when one's conditioner doesn't seem to do its usual job, and hair still ends up tacky feeling, tangly after a fresh hair wash.

Those who CO wash may need to clarify slightly more often than those who do not use this hair wash method.

heidi w.

justgreen
May 1st, 2008, 09:33 AM
Thank you Heidi, for 'clarifying' about the ACV.:)

Sana
May 1st, 2008, 09:49 AM
Thanks all for the reply. Thank you heidi on explaining in detail about the ACV rinse. It answered so many of my questions. I was beginning to think ACV just adjusts the pH of my hair after a wash. Seems to do more than that.

spidermom
May 1st, 2008, 10:39 AM
Next time you get soap scum buildup in bathtub or sink, try pouring some dilute vinegar over it. Then tell me that vinegar does not cut buildup.

(PS--there are many web sites that describe ACV and white vinegar use for clarifying buildup from the hair)

birdiefu
May 1st, 2008, 11:34 AM
Next time you get soap scum buildup in bathtub or sink, try pouring some dilute vinegar over it. Then tell me that vinegar does not cut buildup.

(PS--there are many web sites that describe ACV and white vinegar use for clarifying buildup from the hair)

I agree with you, spidermom. I often wondered how vinegar would know that what it's removing is only from *this* particular wash :shrug:. I mean, you washed your hair first, it's sopping wet, and any build-up is probably smooshy on your strands waiting for the right thing to remove it.

Granted, vinegar can only remove some things- cones, oils, and waxes are obviously beyond it's capabilities. But soap scum and minerals are more of it's forte. It's not a universal clarifier, but it does have a role in clarifying certain types of build-up.

When I dump some vinegar in my toilet and let it sit, it sure makes it super easy to get off that yellowy hard coating of deposits, that usually I can scrub till the cows come home and they are still there! (I'm speaking minerals, not um...excrement)

Kirin
May 1st, 2008, 12:42 PM
I've never found clarifying shampoos to remove my henna. Though i occassionally get the "red drips" at the bottom of the shower, my color never shifts or changes.

heidi w.
May 1st, 2008, 01:50 PM
Thanks all for the reply. Thank you heidi on explaining in detail about the ACV rinse. It answered so many of my questions. I was beginning to think ACV just adjusts the pH of my hair after a wash. Seems to do more than that.

Info is in the details: it doesn't adjust the pH of the hair; ACV Rinse adjusts the pH of the scalp skin itself (ETA: the acid mantle) after application of shampoo/conditioner in a hair wash (which is really a hygienic action for cleaning the scalp skin). That's why I delineate and use the phrase scalp skin when I mean the skin, or acid mantle, v. the hair or hair strands.

heidi w.

heidi w.
May 1st, 2008, 01:57 PM
Yes, vinegar is used as a house cleansing product for hard water buildup and can be used in laundry too.

In general, people who use JUST ACV RINSE to 'clarify' the hair more often than not end up with problems and wonder what went wrong when intending to clarify their hair. Sebum is a waxy ester, and to my knowledge, vinegar doesn't work on this very well. I'm ok with being corrected or with those who fare well with this method.

I'm glad when ACV Rinse works on buildup on hair that's been there a while for some, and certainly don't want to tell someone their experience isn't true or real, but in generalities, for many, many folks, it's misleading to tell folks ACV RINSE is a reliable clarify hair wash method since for so many, as evidenced in the chatter over the years on the long hair boards including LHC, I definitely have noticed that those who went this route, more often than not, had problems with good results.

Vinegar doesn't have knowledge of what it's cleaning--what it's being applied to, true enough. (Neither does dish soap or laundry detergent or motor oil.) I'm not stating that ACV knows what it's cleaning, but individuals applying a product to something know what they're trying to clean. But my personal experience, and my experience hearing from others is that it sure doesn't penetrate well waxy type substances, such as sebum and applied oils.

Opposing views are welcome, and if it works for you that's terrific.

heidi w.

heidi w.
May 1st, 2008, 02:06 PM
...any build-up is probably smooshy on your strands waiting for the right thing to remove it.

Granted, vinegar can only remove some things- cones, oils, and waxes are obviously beyond it's capabilities. But soap scum and minerals are more of it's forte. It's not a universal clarifier, but it does have a role in clarifying certain types of build-up.

When I dump some vinegar in my toilet and let it sit, it sure makes it super easy to get off that yellowy hard coating of deposits, that usually I can scrub till the cows come home and they are still there! (I'm speaking minerals, not um...excrement)

Underscore added by heidi w.

My points precisely. ACV is not a universal clarifier. And to remove buildup on hair strands, yep, you need to use the right product for success.

The reason vinegar works in the shower, the toilet is that staining is from hard water minerals that's present in hard water, which an ACV Rinse is intended to manage as well (minerals from water), as pointed out in my post and in this above quote and by other posters.

heidi w.

heidi w.
May 1st, 2008, 02:12 PM
Finally, remember that in the 'fashion' sites that might discuss the benefits of an ACV Rinse, there is often an assumption of hair being washed daily and other styling procedures applied. These folks are more inclined to visit salons more regularly and at salons, that hair wash they perform, it is for sure a clarify hair wash if not a chelating hair wash (for color or perm preps) -- at least most of the time.

heidi w.

Anje
May 1st, 2008, 06:05 PM
In general, people who use JUST ACV RINSE to 'clarify' the hair more often than not end up with problems and wonder what went wrong when intending to clarify their hair. Sebum is a waxy ester, and to my knowledge, vinegar doesn't work on this very well. I'm ok with being corrected or with those who fare well with this method.

I think vinegar (not just ACV) can help remove sebum to a limited extent. When I was WO washing, I occasionally had particularly oily scalp periods, and water just would not get the sebum off -- the hair near my scalp still looked oily when the hair dried. A dilute vinegar solution, scrubbed on and rinsed out, would remove that and return my hair to normal.

Diluted vinegar (probably even straight vinegar, but I wouldn't try it) certainly won't remove all sebum from your hair, or it would feel much more stripped after ACV rinses. It does not clarify hair in the usual sense of removing most product buildup, but it does have its place, in gently removing soap scum, sebum, and hard water buildup.

heidi w.
May 2nd, 2008, 11:10 AM
That's the point I'm making. There's a distinction between the word clarify that I'm making and the limits of an ACV Rinse. I make the delineation quite clearly. I outlined clearly what an ACV Rinse will do. I am avoiding using clarify when discussing ACV Rinse because it's confusing, especially to newbies. It does 'clarify', if one wants to think about it this way, for a given hair wash as a rinse, but it won't remove dried on crud and sebum and oils that's been there a while. It might make a bit of difference, but it won't remove it.

Think about salad dressing: oil and vinegar. Unless you shake it, it doesn't mix. When you have an oily spot on your shirt, do you use vinegar to remove it? Probably not.

I should add, and will do an ETA on my earlier post that ACV Rinse can help resolve itchy scalp issues for some, depending on the cause of the itching. I used it historically to manage my seborrheic dermatitus acid mantle issues and subsequent itchy scalp. I have the past several years found a much better solution to this that works by removing all my sores entirely so no itchy scalp. I no longer use ACV Rinses because I now have softened and filtered shower water, and the products for managing my scalp skin condition that work very well. I do, however, on occasion find a need to perform a clarify hair wash.

People are, nevertheless, free to handle their hair any way that works for them, and label/name it what they want. I'm all for that. I'm just thinking of folks who get confused easily, and particularly newbies, who tend to try everything before realizing important things such as finding folks who have hair like they do and pay more attention to those routines, or doing only one change at a time to be able to learn what works and doesn't work for your hair and be able to identify that reliably.

heidi w.

kwaniesiam
May 2nd, 2008, 03:17 PM
I'd also like to add that if you use products with cones in them, clarifying is almost required every so often. Before LHC, I had no idea about cones or clarifying or anything. I went mad trying out different cone laden products like Pantene, Herbal essences, Garnier, etc. (not that these are bad, my hair just hated cones and I never understood that!). At first when I found LHC I stuck with the cones but started to clarify and found an immediate difference. My hair really started to improve when I switched over to a natural conditioner and kept up the clarifying just to keep my hair clean of buildup and to allow the conditioner to do its job.

Thank you for all of the wonderful information, Heidi W. :flowers: I never knew that ACV did all of those things yet wasn't a method of clarifying. I use it as a rinse.

UP Lisa
April 3rd, 2012, 09:09 AM
That is something I notice.



Another big sign of needing to clarify is when one's conditioner doesn't seem to do its usual job, and hair still ends up tacky feeling, tangly after a fresh hair wash.


heidi w.

Springgrl
April 3rd, 2012, 09:24 AM
This is all very helpful information. Is there a particular brand of ACV that people like to use? Is it important to have the 'mother' as when you are drinking it? :) Thank you!

ktani
April 3rd, 2012, 10:09 AM
How frequently should one clarify hair & are there any natural ways to clarify hair? I did mine today....for the first time. Used sauve & seemed fine. Also does clarify strip hair of henna? I always notice that when I ACV rinse , there is some color being washed out but didn't see any today with clarifying shampoo.

This may help, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=224

Re vinegar, it is not recommended for wounds or treating infections,
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1785201/
"Recent scientific investigations clearly demonstrate the antimicrobial properties of vinegar, but mainly in the context of food preparation.[9 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15698693)–12] (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12380754) Experts advise against using vinegar preparations for treating wounds. ... Similarly, experts caution against using vinegar as a household disinfectant against human pathogens because chemical disinfectants are more effective.[14 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1785201/#R14),15] (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10656352)"

Most apple cider vinegar has an acetic acid content of 4-5 per cent. The malic acid percentage of the acetic acid in apple cider vinegar I found online is .05 per cent which would not make it that effective to me, especially when vinegar needs to be well diluted for use on hair and skin.

ETA: See also, http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=184

Amber_Maiden
April 3rd, 2012, 11:01 AM
I clarify my hair with baking soda every 3 weeks or so.

heidi w.
April 3rd, 2012, 12:38 PM
How frequently should one clarify hair & are there any natural ways to clarify hair? I did mine today....for the first time. Used sauve & seemed fine. Also does clarify strip hair of henna? I always notice that when I ACV rinse , there is some color being washed out but didn't see any today with clarifying shampoo.

Others may disagree with me, but I do not clarify on any regular basis. In fact, I haven't clarified in something like 2-3 years. I can't even recall the last time I did it, it's been so long. Clarifying is merely an activity that is needed on an as-needed basis. There is no reason, in general, for frequent or regular scheduling of clarifying.

To the best of my knowledge, ACV does not remove henna coloring, but I am not an expert in coloring anything.

heidi w.

UP Lisa
April 3rd, 2012, 12:51 PM
You don't use cones, do you, Heidi?


quote=heidi w.;2069192]Others may disagree with me, but I do not clarify on any regular basis. In fact, I haven't clarified in something like 2-3 years. I can't even recall the last time I did it, it's been so long. Clarifying is merely an activity that is needed on an as-needed basis. There is no reason, in general, for frequent or regular scheduling of clarifying.

To the best of my knowledge, ACV does not remove henna coloring, but I am not an expert in coloring anything.

heidi w.[/quote]

ktani
April 3rd, 2012, 12:54 PM
For clarifying it really depends on product usage. Many people here use a lot of product every time they wash their hair and in between washes, while others use much less product. Build-up will vary accordingly as will the signs of build-up.

heidi w.
April 3rd, 2012, 01:44 PM
You don't use cones, do you, Heidi?

I believe my conditioner choice has cones. I am not positive about my shampoo choice, but the shampoo is somewhat more organic.

I use Biolage's Conditioning Balm to condition my length only, and I also use oil to oil my hair length.

I'm not worried about usage of cones, frankly.

heidi w.

UP Lisa
April 3rd, 2012, 02:35 PM
I just figured you must be able to get away with not clarifying because you didn't use cones.



Others may disagree with me, but I do not clarify on any regular basis. In fact, I haven't clarified in something like 2-3 years. I can't even recall the last time I did it, it's been so long. Clarifying is merely an activity that is needed on an as-needed basis. There is no reason, in general, for frequent or regular scheduling of clarifying.

To the best of my knowledge, ACV does not remove henna coloring, but I am not an expert in coloring anything.

heidi w.


I believe my conditioner choice has cones. I am not positive about my shampoo choice, but the shampoo is somewhat more organic.

I use Biolage's Conditioning Balm to condition my length only, and I also use oil to oil my hair length.

I'm not worried about usage of cones, frankly.

heidi w.

ktani
April 3rd, 2012, 03:09 PM
I just figured you must be able to get away with not clarifying because you didn't use cones.

Silicones are not the only ingredients in hair products that build-up. I have used the old original and the new version of Biolage Conditioning Balm and they both built-up on my hair. For the new version I was using a non build-up shampoo as well.

ETA: Not all silicones cause build-up either. There is one in the non build-up shampoo I use now.

proo
April 3rd, 2012, 05:53 PM
I'm SO and my sebum builds up, just like other products -
ends get dry and tangly.
I clarify about every 3 weeks with 3 drops Prell in a half gallon of water.
This is applied to very wet hair, primarily to the scalp, worked in gently.
After a 15 minute tee shirt turban, 3 drops MO are applied, primarily to the ends.
Then I'm set for another 3 weeks.

Jenny777
July 24th, 2012, 07:29 AM
For clarifying it really depends on product usage. Many people here use a lot of product every time they wash their hair and in between washes, while others use much less product. Build-up will vary accordingly as will the signs of build-up.
For clarifying it really depends on product usage. Many people here use a lot of product every time they wash their hair and in between washes, while others use much less product. Build-up will vary accordingly as will the signs of build-up.
Last edited by ktani; April 3rd, 2012 at 02:16 PM. Reason: spelling

Hello, I wanted to ask if anyone can give me some advice on how often I should clarify my hair... I have fine/thin damaged from bleach hair and my plan is to start with clarifying my hair, then try a new s&c I got called Revitalize... then I plan on doing deep conditioning treatments twice a week, using virgin coconut oil, shea butter, and jojoba oil. Not sure if I should combine any or not in my type of hair. I also want to do something using coconut milk. I also want to use Ktain's catnip tea and try KMSSM AND KMSOM. I'm not sure if I should also do a protein treatment... is my hair too fragile? I certainly do not want to cause more breakage but I also want to make sure I give my hair what it really needs. I read that it isn't good to use a BB on damaged hair but only on healthy hair.. true? my hair so the catnip tea and other treatments can really do their job without too much build up in their way? Lastly, if I'm going to do all of this how often and when should I clarify I would really appreciate getting some advice and help on how I should start this regimen and continue it.

Jenny777
July 24th, 2012, 07:29 AM
For clarifying it really depends on product usage. Many people here use a lot of product every time they wash their hair and in between washes, while others use much less product. Build-up will vary accordingly as will the signs of build-up.
For clarifying it really depends on product usage. Many people here use a lot of product every time they wash their hair and in between washes, while others use much less product. Build-up will vary accordingly as will the signs of build-up.
Last edited by ktani; April 3rd, 2012 at 02:16 PM. Reason: spelling

Hello, I wanted to ask if anyone can give me some advice on how often I should clarify my hair... I have fine/thin damaged from bleach hair and my plan is to start with clarifying my hair, then try a new s&c I got called Revitalize... then I plan on doing deep conditioning treatments twice a week, using virgin coconut oil, shea butter, and jojoba oil. Not sure if I should combine any or not in my type of hair. I also want to do something using coconut milk. I also want to use Ktain's catnip tea and try KMSSM AND KMSOM. I'm not sure if I should also do a protein treatment... is my hair too fragile? I certainly do not want to cause more breakage but I also want to make sure I give my hair what it really needs. I read that it isn't good to use a BB on damaged hair but only on healthy hair.. true? my hair so the catnip tea and other treatments can really do their job without too much build up in their way? Lastly, if I'm going to do all of this how often and when should I clarify I would really appreciate getting some advice and help on how I should start this regimen and continue it.

UP Lisa
July 24th, 2012, 07:50 AM
Since your hair is damaged from bleaching, I would try protein.

swearnsue
July 24th, 2012, 08:46 AM
Jenny777, when your hair is wet, take one strand and pinch each end with your fingers and stretch it. Does it stretch a lot and then break? Does it just break without stretching? If your hair stretches a lot before it breaks then your hair probably needs protein. If your strand breaks right away without stretching then it needs moisture. Its a balance thing and it changes over time. I do the stretch test about every week or two with a shed hair in the shower. After protein, you can always moisturize too.

heidi w.
July 24th, 2012, 12:28 PM
It seems to me that you're kind of guessing around regarding what to do with your hair. I think so much of the time that guessing is a bad idea. Since this concerns color, fundamentally, I would recommend you find a licensed colorist, ONLY a colorist, and get a consultation. IF you really do your homework, more than likely you can find a person that knows a whole lot about color and give you fairly good advice, if not excellent advice. And then proceed from there. Be sure to explain your hair goals. This site is devoted to growing long hair, so that could be a limitation for you. Not all hairdressers are good at color; this is why you want a colorist ONLY. Not a hair stylist.

That's what I would do.
heidi w.

heidi w.
July 24th, 2012, 12:35 PM
Jenny777, One should clarify on an as-needed basis only, not on any regular schedule. Clarifying is a fairly harsh hair treatment, even if you purchase a product that clarifies and don't do a homemade recipe for clarifying. Buildup happens on different timespans for different people depending in part on how they wash their hair. For example, I haven't had to clarify my hair in something like 2 years, perhaps longer. I simply can't recall the last time I clarified. Those who CO hair wash, for example, may need to clarify a bit more often. There's no real schedule one can keep to prevent much. In hair care, more is not better. So just wait for your hair to show the signs of needing a clarify: hair that is tangly and seems dry and perhaps somewhat brittle. A big sign is that the uptake of conditioner suddenly seems to not be working at all. That's when you clarify. Hair care routines shouldn't be overly fussy or complicated. I don't know also about using all those oils all at once. I am thinking that likely you can get away with using one or the other at a atime, and your hair will likely be fine. Again, more is not better in hair care. It's the little details that build up to a big bang; that's how you achieve beautiful hair. Slowly with patience.

For example, I merely shampoo, condition the length and oil the length and that's it! Easy-peasy. No expensive products; no product searching; nothing fancy at all. My opinion is that if a hair care routine is too much fuss, eventually most people grow tired of the fuss, and can't really keep it up for decades, perhaps a lifetime.

ETA: Correct, BBB when your hair has great moisture and is in better health. I oil the length once dry, then use a BBB to work the oil in to the hair and distribute the oil around. And one change at a time so you can know what the culprit is. Change too much at once, and confusion can be the outcome. END ETA

heidi w.

heidi w.
July 24th, 2012, 12:43 PM
Jenny777, Correct. Do not BBB if hair is damaged. Wait til the hair is in better moisture and health overall. I oil my hair and use the BBB to work the oil in to my hair length. And I even have a scalp skin condition. Also, I recommend doing one change at a time so you can identify the culprit if something goes awry. Too much change at once: confusion.

I tried to add this 3 times to the above, but it simply would not take. We had a thunderstorm early this morning; so there's a lot of downed power lines.

heidi w.

RedheadMistress
July 24th, 2012, 01:02 PM
- I can't imagine clarifying and Not stripping hair of some colour . . probably less with henna more if you have one component vegan dyes like I do .

Every time I schampoo it completely strips my hair of most of it's colour and it ends up light pink !

Which is why I stopped clarifying .

Jenny777
July 24th, 2012, 01:46 PM
Thanks for all the great advice! Which shampoo's are the most mild without cones and sulfates and best to use prior to doing catnip tea treatments? I know the treatment will not do anything if there is too much build up on the hair, as it cannot penetrate through it. Also does coconut oil still penetrate the cortex if there is build up?