Question for the LHC collective mind ;).. what causes tangles?

[xoxophelia]

Yesterday, I noticed a friend of mine running her fingers through her hair and there were tangles (even though I couldn't tell when she was not doing this). There is also a lot of talk about hair tangling with even the healthiest most beautiful hair here. My hair, on the other hand, is damaged. There is just no way around that with all I have done.. which is a lot.. hehe.. :oops:. But, I can literally go without running a comb through it for 4 days and have no tangles.. and, I always wear it down including to sleep.

I don't even tend to use cones. Or any hair products (since coming here, oil). And I'm not heat styling anymore... Even after a metal concert, I don't have tangles. O.o

So maybe LHC has some wisdom here to answer this question: what causes some hair to tangle while other hair does not?

[shadowclaw]

I think finer hair is more tangle-prone. For one thing, it tends to be weaker and damage more easily, which will lead to tangles. Also, since each hair is so thin and most likely very flexible as a result, they probably wrap around each more easily than coarse hair, which is thicker and less flexible.

I'm not sure if thin hair also contributes to tangles, but I think thin hair is probably more prone to damage, because there aren't as many neighboring hairs to help protect each hair. So following this theory, thin hair can get damaged more easily, and therefore is prone to tangles due to the damage.

You have both thick hair and coarse hairs, so that probably why you don't get tangles easily :) My hair is fine and it does tangle easily, especially the bottom layer and the very front. However, when it was healthy virgin hair, I had no issues at all with tangling, and I usually wore it down (and always down while I slept) and kept it between BSL and waist. So I think really good health will keep tangles at bay for the most part.

[zift]

In my experience the most tangles I get are from little fibers from the carpet and the clothes I wear. And also it tangled more below classic so I would say length has a major factor in tangling as well. Also the wavier my hair is the tanglier it gets.
So thick and coarse hair tangles too:)

[xoxophelia]

Hmmm... I do have some finer hairs around my face that also do not tangle...

One thing I was thinking about while reading your response, shadowclaw, was that the difference between F to C is really just the number of layers in the cuticle. So, you would still have the same amount of "fray" on the outside of the hair to help it catch onto things, it just wouldn't break or split as soon. Ok, well that is a guess.

The flexibility thing sounds interesting though. But damaged hair=less flexible. And if hair tangles more as it gets longer, then it sounds like damage increases tangles...

And yet.. my hair is quite damaged. Hahaha... ummm *thinks herself back into a circle*

[Anje]

My hairs tend to form little loops, and the hairs tend to wrap around other hairs, rather than all the hairs waving or curling or lying straight together in a continuous pattern. This makes it tangle quite a bit, and silicones don't seem to make much difference in this. I think it's a hair wave pattern thing. If your hairs simply stay in the same position relative to each other, they're not going to tangle as much.

Cat fuzz and lint are major contributors to my tangling, too. So are hairs that have gotten bent in some way, so that they catch other hairs more. I wouldn't be surprised if hair that is more prone to getting sharp creases in individual hairs tends to be more tangly.

[KarpatiiSiv]

My hair is almost tailbone and I get hardly any tangles. I don't find it comfortable to sleep with my hair braided so I leave it down and have no problems in the morning. I only use catnip for conditioning and don't use oils or anything else on my hair. The only time I had problems with tangles was when I tried using oils on my hair because my hair picked up lint etc. My hair is in reasonable condition but I do have splits due to mechanical damage but these don't appear to cause a tangle problem. :shrug:

[shadowclaw]

Another thought prompted by Anje's response:

If it isn't a fine/coarse thing, but a wave pattern thing, then perhaps tangling is partially connected to how hair is dried. My hair gets messy and individual hairs end up poking in weird directions if I don't frequently comb it while it air dries. Maybe those of of who don't try to let our hair dry as straight as possible are more prone ot tangles? What are your drying methods?

Also, when I use a hair dryer, my hair is smooth and tangle-free and tends to look great all day with little effort. Is this because all of my hairs have been allowed to dry very straight? I should also mention that sleeping with wet hair is a disaster. I wake up with crazy hair that refuses to obey.

[GoddesJourney]

The trend is that rough or split hairs tend to grab eachother more and tangle. Even if the hair is completely healthy, straight, thick (individual strands) hair will tangle less while curly, thin (individual strands) hair will tangle more. That's more or less the scale. You can also take into account product, water type, wind, etc. Anyway, it's a general trend.

[xoxophelia]

KarpatiiSiv: Welcome to the "I have no idea what I am doing right" club haha. My hair used to be past waist and did not tangle then either. This was with blow drying/straightening, washing, and swimming in chlorine every day. :shrug:

I wonder if maybe.. NOT using so much product has something to do with it?

Anje: That is an interesting theory. My hair does "tangle" less when I used to blow dry it. By tangle I mean form little clusters of hairs but I guess those are not tangles. My hair is also in tight braid waves right now which do not tangle, and are an even texture.

Would hair forming sharp angles come from losing elasticity?

[xoxophelia]

shadowclaw: What I am wondering now is if it is a bit of an F or C thing. They both might have the same amount of fray, but maybe C loses its elasticity last in comparison. Then, it would get sharp bends and not be able to.. "slip" out of a knot.. ?? Eh

My drying method: I wash it. In the shower I part my hair and then run water over it. Finger comb a little. Then I just do nothing. I do thinking blow drying can make it easier though with tangles from the sounds of it.

Goddes: One thing you mentioned to note is I have well water that gets put through a softer and a few other processes. I don't remember ever getting knots though and I have moved a lot. Perhaps my hair is less damaged than I thought?

(I used to straighten/curl/blow dry about 5 or so times a week, I used sun in, I colored multiple times with semi perm and a little with perm color, swam often... hardly ever get trims) Bad girl tsk tsk.

[Fractalsofhair]

I'd guess it has to do with how damage the hair actually is, as opposed to how damaged it might look/feel(Ie, how close it is to breaking). Some people have hair that can take a lot of damage. (That doesn't mean you should do damaging things, because when hair gets longer, weird things can happen!) When my hair was fried, it tangled easily. Since it's "virgin"(henna gloss/manic panic only), I can go a good week without combing it and it still looks fine.

[Irishred]

dirt, loose hairs (shedding naturally), oils, movement, wind, manipulation, splits, twists, funky waves from a previous style... hmmm, what else causes tangles?

[Feline]

My hair is also fine, and I get the most tangles from wind, lint and cat hair. I just gently detangle a couple times a day, and try to not get caught in strong winds. I had a terrible mess a few years ago when we took the boat ride to the Statue of Liberty on what turned out to be a very blustery day (as in whitecaps on the water). Took me over a hour to detangle later. Not fun.

[talervo]

Definitely fine hair tangles more. I've finally gotten to the length where I get more tangles, about BSL. I wear my hair down mostly and have noticed that my few split ends are just in the hairs at the nape of my neck. My hair is very healthy (haven't done anything bad to it, except maybe not moisturize it enough).
Also, I've started to braid or bun my hair when I go to bed. You would think I would get less tangles this way, but my hair stays wavy and gets more tangly now. I've also noticed that the ends of my hair are bent since doing this. I may go back to just leaving my hair loose at bedtime.

[Cholera]

Have you ever started a braid up near your scalp, to have the ends of the hair start braiding up toward you? This happens to me, and if I run my finger through this mock-braid, it gets stuck because the hairs lock up. This is what happens when I'm experiencing tangles, whether I'm combing my hair or finger-combing it. It wasn't a tangle before the hair got compressed, I suppose. It doesn't happen if my hair is just washed, but usually before a wash day. I think fibers from clothes and things contribute, too.

[Boudicca]

Wind, definitely. The difference in tangles when I've had my hair down is unbelievable.

[teela1978]

Wind. My hair is similar to the OP's in that I can go a day or two without combing, sleep with it down, and have few tangles... as long as its been up most of the time inbetween. If its windy all bets are off though.

I also think fineness has something to do with it. When I was little my hair was cobwebby fine and my mother would torture me every day with the hairbrush!!!! It was horrible. Those little bendy hairs just sneak around each other and get caught. My hairs are slightly coarser now... I occasionally get a tangle towards the end, usually around one bent hair. No clue how the first one gets bent. Stretched from combing and snapped perhaps? That'll make a material do strange things.

[Fiferstone]

I too think fine-hair is more tangle prone owing to its texture. My hair is pretty much stick-straight at this length. I have nasty snarls at the nape of my neck when I wear my hair loose, and I must detangle periodically during the day on "loose hair" days or face having to pick incipient mats apart at the end of the day (not fun). The major culprits for me are friction (rubbing against anything = instant snarl/fairy knot), wind, and yes, lint.

[Smokering]

Hmm. I've always had really knotty hair, whether using expensive salon products, regular el cheapo shampoo and conditioner, BS/ACV, WO, Indian herbs or various combination natural haircare regimes.

Looking back, it tangles *somewhat* less when well moisturised, and cleanish. Once bits of fluff have stuck to it, either from over-oiling or stretching washes out too far (resulting in sebumy roots) it gets really tangly and unpleasant. I could detangle it all day and still not be able to run my hand through it at the end without snagging.

And wind, yeah. I rode on the back of DH's motorbike once with my hair blowing loose in the wind. It's not as liberating as you might think. :p

DD, who's two, gets "friction locs" VERY quickly at the back of her head from rubbing her head against the sheets. I think it's largely because her hair's still baby-fine.

[bigeyedgirl829]

I have really fine hair and I think that's what causes my tangles... along with the split ends. I wonder if fine hair just tends to split more too? hmmm...

[xoxophelia]

I have really fine hair and I think that's what causes my tangles... along with the split ends. I wonder if fine hair just tends to split more too? hmmm...

I read that overall it will. The reason being that the difference between the spectrum of F->C hair is the number of layers in the cuticle that protects the cortex. I think that would mean that C hair could have just as much external damage as an F but their hair just won't break off or split as easily.

[haibane]

Weird, I have fine hair that is not very prone to tangles. Maybe because it's very very straight? It's also completely virgin as far as chemicals and heat are concerned.
I can let my hair blow in the wind and it pretty much settles down in an orderly fashion by itself afterwards. I never get knotty tangles (except once when I over did it on the olive oil.) The only kind of tangling I get is when the ends stick together from dryness. But it's pretty easy to carefully separate them again with finger combing, and it doesn't seem to be causing any damage.

[xoxophelia]

Weird, I have fine hair that is not very prone to tangles. Maybe because it's very very straight? It's also completely virgin as far as chemicals and heat are concerned.
I can let my hair blow in the wind and it pretty much settles down in an orderly fashion by itself afterwards. I never get knotty tangles (except once when I over did it on the olive oil.) The only kind of tangling I get is when the ends stick together from dryness. But it's pretty easy to carefully separate them again with finger combing, and it doesn't seem to be causing any damage.

Perhaps because your hair isn't very porous? Like... the shingles on the cuticle of your hair lay down nice and flat due to hair type and also because you have virgin hair.

[haibane]

Perhaps because your hair isn't very porous? Like... the shingles on the cuticle of your hair lay down nice and flat due to hair type and also because you have virgin hair.
Yeah, I guess that could be it. How do you figure out if your hair is porous or not?

[xoxophelia]

Yeah, I guess that could be it. How do you figure out if your hair is porous or not?

Some people put a hair on top of water and watch if it sinks.. but I just run my fingers down a strand of hair and see if it feels much different going backward than it does if I run them down the hair strand. I doubt it is very accurate but I can feel a difference between the virgin and damaged bits.

[haibane]

Some people put a hair on top of water and watch if it sinks.. but I just run my fingers down a strand of hair and see if it feels much different going backward than it does if I run them down the hair strand. I doubt it is very accurate but I can feel a difference between the virgin and damaged bits.
Thank you! I put a hair on water and it... didn't sink. Am I a witch now? :D

[xoxophelia]

Thank you! I put a hair on water and it... didn't sink. Am I a witch now? :D

LOL .. I need to check mine out to see if I get witchy status as well ^_^

[triumphator!]

Your hair doesn't tangle, what! What did you sacrifice to the hair gods to get that? I'm on to youuuuu! ; )

[heidihug]

I put a hair on water and it... didn't sink. Am I a witch now?
She's a witch! <from Monty Python's Holy Grail>

My fine and thin hair tangles if I move. Or breathe. Or anything. It's always been that way, even when I was young and had completely undamaged hair. One of the reasons I was not allowed to have hair longer than shoulders until I was a teen - my mother didn't want to have to deal with a head-full of tangles.

[Jezerellica]

Wind is the worst! I went on a Harley ride a few years ago with a helmet. No matter, I had the biggest mess EVER!! It took so long to comb out and I remember tons of hair broken off even though I gave it my best effort. Braids from then on!!

[xoxophelia]

Your hair doesn't tangle, what! What did you sacrifice to the hair gods to get that? I'm on to youuuuu! ; )

Haha.. I have no idea why it doesn't. My hair is definitely high up the scale on the soft and slippery side but the hairs are also "stubborn" and don't respond much to manipulation. This could be part of the reason..

[rosek]

I find most of my tangles are caused by lint and other fluffy stuff. Its worse after I oil - the oil picks up the fluffy bits very well, and helps everything the tangle together.

[Jenn of Pence]

Mine isn't prone to "tangles" (i.e. wraps around itself) so much...wind of course, maybe some other environmental effects. However, mine was prone to "sticking together" on the ends in the past (what I've learned to call "velcro ends") which made it difficult to run my fingers through. It could possibly have been splits and microdamage on the ends, but after researching on the forums I decided it was most likely due to protein buildup. Not only did that make the ends "sticky," but they stuck out in all directions and wouldn't lie down at all. When it started doing this I would always go get a trim, but now I know how to remedy or prevent it, which means less trims!

[bugeyedmonster2]

She's a witch! <from Monty Python's Holy Grail>


Summon the Witchsmeller! <from Blackadder>

[ericthegreat]

The most common causes I find are the wind and everyday movement. The wind of course spins our hair all around so that really causes a lot of tangling. Also, everyday walking and running and doing our everyday actions also causes our hair to tangle up. The type of tangles I usually find on my own hair always have a loop of a few hairs that have naturally either tied themselves up to the other adjacent strands or they have looped around and twisted themselves to the other adjacent strands. My tangles also tend to happen a lot more toward my ends.

Tangles I find also almost always happen when you wear your hair down. If your hair is first neatly brushed out and then secured into a neat updo, it stays put and doesn't get much of a chance to tangle.

[pepperminttea]

My hair tangles at the slightest provocation, it always has. It's virgin hair, and never sees heat styling. I've got minor bits of mechanical damage, and some old layers still growing out, but any white dots get S&D-ed out. Oiling helps with detangling, but not preventing, and coney leave-ins don't seem to work either. I've more or less accepted that wearing it up is easier in the long run, but I do miss wearing it down.

The wave pattern theory is interesting, I do find the odd weirdly-squared off hair from something or other. I think for me my under layer is largely to blame - if I leave my hair down (very rarely now), it mats something awful and pulls the top layer in with it. Fairy knots, loopies, you name it, they're hiding in my under layer somewhere. :(

[julliams]

I'm the same as you. I can not brush for days and there are relatively no knots in my hair. My daughter on the other hand - ugh!!! I can be combing her hair so that every strand is totally tangle free, then comb a little the wrong way and hey presto, there are tangles again. Very frustrating.

The only time my hair gets tangled is when I have something sticky in it.

[HikerTrash]

Pardon me if somebody already said this, but I remember reading somewhere that scientists actually showed that straight fibers tangle more easily than curly ones, and that straight fibers with one end attached tangle more readily than with both ends free.

I found a page that sort of goes in to this. "Although straight hairs interact less often with each other than curly hairs do, his math suggests that when straight hairs do rub against each other, they often do so at steep angles that cause tangles. "

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20759101/

Not sure if that answers why some straight-haired people here get no tangles, though. I get surprisingly few even with fine hair.

[xoxophelia]

Interesting. I don't know if the reason for me would be how straight the hair is because often times my hair is nearly straight. Especially a day after washing..

One thing I just realized that is interesting is that it is also very difficult to tease my hair. Even with hair spray and if I am aggressive with it (I had to try for a play in the past) it was extremely difficult to get it to not just fall flat. Also with my hair this length I can't tie it into a knot. I mean I physically can but it slips out right away no matter what.

[spidermom]

I've noticed that shed hairs can tangle up in the other hairs, also dust and lint do the same. Damaged hairs with roughened cuticles grab onto each other like Velcro.

[LittleOrca]

Pesky little faeries do.

[bugeyedmonster2]

I have weird hair. My hair tangles when I put it up. (which is annoying.) When I take my bun down, I find the ends have tangled themselves and I have to spend time untangling them. Now if I leave my hair in a braid or banded ponytail, the ends don't tangle nearly as much.

That said, my hair used to be terrible to tease. I was a teen during the 80s, and I remember trying to spray my bangs to stand up straight. It took 45 minutes in the morning and 3 cans of Aqua Net a week. It would be down by noon. Sigh. Also, when that big fluffy hair look was in, in the early 80s? I would spend 45 minutes spraying and curling my hair. That would also fall out by noon.

My hair is just ornery, I think.

[Sammich]

I found out, before I had my hair cut into the scene cut (Poofy on top, thin at the ends) my hair was so untangly it was unbelievable! It was very thick before the cut.
After the scene cut, my hair got tangled so easily at everything and it hurt to comb it, and I had to comb it alot so it wouldn't dread up!

Perhaps it was the way it was cut, but I've always realised after getting layers, the thinner underlayer got tangled much more easier than normal. Hmm...
Maybe it also depends on how thick your hair is.