No poo questions for no pooers

[countryhopper]

Hello! Neewbie here!

I've been no poo since Nov 1 '09. I've tried different methods (WO, baking soda, tea rinses, etc), but I've got a few questions:

1) I've heard that baking soda can be really rough on your hair. I dillute mine to 1 tablespoon per cup of warm water. I massage it into my scalp. Could the baking soda damage my hair even if it is so dilluted? (I know it can dry the hair out, but I always neutralize the BS with an acidic rinse, so my hair never feels dry)

2) I've also tried Water Only. It's ok for in between baking soda washes, but somehow my hair my hair still seems dry but greasy at the same time. maybe not greasy; stringy (seperates in clumpy sections). Maybe a tea rinse would be bettter? My hair seems greasy if I try to use vinegar...

3) I've read a lot on the forum about oiling. I'd like to try this, but my hair seems to not soak up any oil (or just look stringy again). What are the benefits of oiling? Is it to moisturize or to do something else? And how do you wash out oil if you don't use oil and conditioner?

My hair type is 1b (1a before no poo). it is fine and limp and seems to just hang (Maybe that's just because it's at a weird length? I'm growing it out from one of those angled bobs where the front layers are longer) AHHHH! which leads me to...

4) Should I leave my hair the length it is or cut the front layers to be the same as the back? or just grow out the whole uneven thing together?

I sometimes wonder if it's possible for me to have nice, long, healthy hair. In my mind, nice, healthy hair should be soft, shiny, thick and make people want to reach out and touch it (even if you HATE when people touch it!) My hair seems dull and boring and just hangs. AACK!!!:justy:
5) Because my hair is fine and limp and can sometimes look oily between washes, I rely a lot on cornstarch to soak up any excess. Is cornstarch damaging? I like the way it also thickens my hair...

Ok, sorry for all the random thoughts/questions! Any help will be greatly appreciated!!

[anthonyswife]

I can't be of much help, since our hair types are completely different and I do CO washes, but since no one else had responded I just wanted to give you a little encouragement. I know how you feel, but you can have long healthy hair! It might take some time and experimenting, but it is attainable. :) I'm sure someone will come along to answer your questions soon.

[countryhopper]

I can't be of much help, since our hair types are completely different and I do CO washes, but since no one else had responded I just wanted to give you a little encouragement. I know how you feel, but you can have long healthy hair! It might take some time and experimenting, but it is attainable. :) I'm sure someone will come along to answer your questions soon.

Thanx! Yes, looking at all these nice hair pics is both motivating and discouraging... :wail:

I've avoided doing CO washes because I'm afraid it will make my hair look weighed down/ greasy. glad to know it's working for you!

[Heidi_234]

Baking soda got a VERY high pH level, and if not mixed well it can be rather abrasive on hair. I know some people have alot of success with it, but it's important to follow a baking soda wash with an acidic rinse. High pH level opens up the cuticle while low pH closes it down. If you leave the cuticles up it might increase wear and tear on them (because hair is all ruffled and not smooth) and result in long term damage. If ACV leaves your hair greasy (which, in theory, is not really possible, ACV is not an oil), you might at least try the tea rinses (herbal infusions tend to be slightly acidic).

Have you heard about soapnuts (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=95)? They are cleansing, do not require ACV rinses and some people said soapnuts gave their hair body.

[countryhopper]

Baking soda got a VERY high pH level, and if not mixed well it can be rather abrasive on hair. I know some people have alot of success with it, but it's important to follow a baking soda wash with an acidic rinse. High pH level opens up the cuticle while low pH closes it down. If you leave the cuticles up it might increase wear and tear on them (because hair is all ruffled and not smooth) and result in long term damage. If ACV leaves your hair greasy (which, in theory, is not really possible, ACV is not an oil), you might at least try the tea rinses (herbal infusions tend to be slightly acidic).

Have you heard about soapnuts (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=95)? They are cleansing, do not require ACV rinses and some people said soapnuts gave their hair body.

Thanx!

Yes, the BS seems to be well dissolved in water. I can't feel any grittiness at all when applying (it just feels like slippery water). I was wondering if it wouuld still do damage at a microscopic level that would be damaging over time. i've read where some people make a paste of the BS and water and use THAT to scrub with, but I would NEVER do that! After all, a paste that thick is good for cleaning soap scum off showers and things like that :D

After washing, I always rinse with a tea (lavender, black, lemon, etc) as an acidic rinse. I've never tried ACV since I don't have any at the moment. The white vinegar is what seems to make my hair oily.

I think part of the problem could be that I'm not used to having it down and flat. When I had the chin length bob I used to tease and spray it so it had a lot more volume to it. I'm not currently using any products or dyes on it now. Most of the time now I get fed up with it and throw it in a claw clip.

Not sure where I can get soapnuts...

[Heidi_234]

You can order them online, or find them in health store in the laundry section. If I found some, I'm sure you can too. Or ask the nice ladies over the soapnut thread (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=8449), I'm sure they'll help.

[Sukidoll]

I lurk here sometimes, have never posted but I decided to since we seem to have similar hair stats.

My hair is layered, the longest part is a bit longer than waist, the shortest is between my chin and shoulders.

I started BS and ACV rinses Nov '08. I switched to water only about 1 year later. The hair on my scalp is clean after WO washes but the length is still a bit greasy and very stringy.

I also use cornstarch, between washes - mostly on my bangs though. My hair doesn't look so bad in updo's, but I would like to wear it down without it looking kinda greasy.

I oil my scalp and the very ends with grapeseed oil, since its light and easy to wash out.
( A bit scared to oil all of my hair, since I have had some bad experiences removing coconut milk and castor oil - and that was back when I used shampoo)

Something I found from babyslime (http://babyslime.livejournal.com/174054.html#greasy)
"Greasy Hair:
Some people experience an adjustment, or "de-tox" period of greasiness as they transition to no-poo. Do not over-wash, it will pass soon! If you've been using your routine faithfully and experience greasy hair, try using less ACV in your rinse, cut out honey if you've been using it, try switching to a citrus rinse, or use a comb instead of a brush to style your hair."

Maybe you can try a higher ratio of water to vinegar?

I might try soapnuts, but I was really hoping water only would work for both the scalp and length.

Just thought I would share my experience with you so far, I hope we both find something that works!

[countryhopper]

Thanx, Sukidoll!

Yes, I know what you mean about scalp being clean and the length being greasy. It doesn't FEEL greasy, but I think it looks it. It only took 2 weeks to get through that initial transition time.

Last night I used about 1 teaspoon of white vinegar in 800ml of water and just soaked my length in it. If I get it near my scalp, grease!! I still prefer tea rinses to vinegar. I've never tried lemon juice. Hmmm.

If the cornstarch isn't a problem, I think I'm going to continue using it. I like that it thickens my hair so much! Plus, I can stretch washings out longer. I wash about 2/week, but with WO I need every other day.

[bumblebums]

I gave up BS/vinegar about four weeks after I went no 'poo. What I use instead, and highly recommend, is alternative washes such as egg yolk, or Indian herbs. I recently tried applesauce and really liked it, too. It takes a bit of time to wash out properly so you don't get apple bits in your hair, but even if you do, you can shake them out or comb them out.

There is a thread on Indian herbs, and another thread on egg washes, but applesauce is not discussed elsewhere on this forum, so here's how you use it. Take 1/3 of a cup of non-chunky, unsweetened applesauce (I use Trader Joe's organic stuff) and add 2 tbsp of water to it to make it a little easier to spread. Dump it on your scalp, massage in thoroughly, and wait for 10 minutes while you do other shower stuff. Then rinse with cool water for as long as 3-4 minutes. Longer than you think you need to. You don't even need to follow it up with an acidic rinse, but some people use beer, or tea, or citrus rinses as well.

Good luck!

[AstrayStar]

[quote=countryhopper;962944]Baking soda can be drying, but a tbsp in one cup of water is not a bad place to start. I started using bs in that amount and found over the course of 2 years I was able to reduce the amount of baking soda my hair needed to be clean and grease free to 1/4 teaspoon per cup of water. Your hair could still be adjusting. But it can't hurt to experiment!
1) I've heard that baking soda can be really rough on your hair. I dillute mine to 1 tablespoon per cup of warm water. I massage it into my scalp. Could the baking soda damage my hair even if it is so dilluted? (I know it can dry the hair out, but I always neutralize the BS with an acidic rinse, so my hair never feels dry)
I have been experimenting with WO and herb rinses for the last few months and it took about 2 months or so for my hair to be able to rinse with WO and not be greasy so I could wear it down no problem.
2) I've also tried Water Only. It's ok for in between baking soda washes, but somehow my hair my hair still seems dry but greasy at the same time. maybe not greasy; stringy (seperates in clumpy sections). Maybe a tea rinse would be bettter? My hair seems greasy if I try to use vinegar...
I usually have to use shikakai or baking soda to get out oil and depending on how heavily I have oiled it usually comes out no problem.
3) I've read a lot on the forum about oiling. I'd like to try this, but my hair seems to not soak up any oil (or just look stringy again). What are the benefits of oiling? Is it to moisturize or to do something else? And how do you wash out oil if you don't use oil and conditioner?
We have a similar hair type and if your does end up adjusting like mine - being no poo has made my hair full of body and my hair is only limp now if I am over-moisturizing.
My hair type is 1b (1a before no poo). it is fine and limp and seems to just hang (Maybe that's just because it's at a weird length? I'm growing it out from one of those angled bobs where the front layers are longer) AHHHH! which leads me to...
Good luck trying to decide what you want to do with your layers. I would probably cut them - but do what feels right to you.
4) Should I leave my hair the length it is or cut the front layers to be the same as the back? or just grow out the whole uneven thing together?
You will - !!!!!
I sometimes wonder if it's possible for me to have nice, long, healthy hair. In my mind, nice, healthy hair should be soft, shiny, thick and make people want to reach out and touch it (even if you HATE when people touch it!) My hair seems dull and boring and just hangs. AACK!!!:justy:

[embee]

I gave up on baking soda after my first try - my hair felt like straw, I could not comb it at all, it just broke off - there was no slip whatsoever - and it took several heavy washings and conditionings to feel like my hair again.

Vinegar rinse was great when I lived where the water was soft and it was difficult to get the shampoo out - rinse rinse rinse and it still felt soapy. Vinegar just cut that completely, vinegar greatly diluted. That was long ago and far away so I do not recall the amount I used.

WO works pretty well for me, but it was better if I did a very dilute shampoo every once in a while. I was quite surprised that it worked at all! WO sometimes left my hair feeling "waxy", which was when I'd do a light shampoo the next washing.

Nowadays I've pretty much gone to a *very* diluted shampoo every couple/three *weeks*, rinsed very well, and that's all. Haven't used conditioner in about a year (maybe more) and have not missed it. Surprise surprise. :) A bottle of shampoo will now last me about a year, I think. Hard to say, I've not kept track.

[rupunzlemom]

I have very fine hair also. I used Baking Soda to wash and ACV to rinse for about 6 months.........it was a disaster! My hair was like a hay stack when I finally switched to Borax water to wash and citric acid for rinse. That was 3 years ago and my hair is wonderful now. :) The only thing that would make me happier is if it were thicker and longer. ;) I wash my hair twice a week unless the softner isn't working then I have to wash probably once more.
To use borax...........buy some from the store and put about an inch in the bottom of a container. Add water and shake well. After the borax settles pour off the water and use that to wash your hair. It won't really lather. Rinse well then put about 1/4 tsp citric acid in a quart of water and pour that over you hair. Rinse well and enjoy clean soft hair. Hope you find something natural that works for you. It takes about 6-8 weeks for your scalp and hair to adjust so don't get discouraged.

[-simply Venus-]

1. I just recently did a baking soda wash to get rid of buildup (my first clarification EVER) And it did really dry out my hair, and made it really easy to tangle, so I conditioned it, and when I got out of the shower soaked it in Olive Oil. Today My hair feels so soft! The clarification+oil really did wonders for my hair, and I thought I was cursed to dry hair! Ends up it was just buildup+lack of oil.

2. I'm new and really don't know how to help you. O.O

3. I like to drench my hair in Olive Oil and go to sleep with it, about once a week, or once my hair feels dry, and then CO in the morning. And then every night, or every-other night, I like to just get a little bit of oil, like a quarter size for my shoulder length hair, and run it through, sort of like a leave in conditioner and de-frizzer. =]

4. I think you should decide what you think looks best and do it. >.<

5. Never heard of that! Again, I'm a newbie.


As for the limp hair, I don't know how to help. D; But I hope I helped in some way! Goodluck. =]

[bumblebums]

1. I just recently did a baking soda wash to get rid of buildup (my first clarification EVER) And it did really dry out my hair, and made it really easy to tangle, so I conditioned it, and when I got out of the shower soaked it in Olive Oil. Today My hair feels so soft! The clarification+oil really did wonders for my hair, and I thought I was cursed to dry hair! Ends up it was just buildup+lack of oil.

2. I'm new and really don't know how to help you. O.O

3. I like to drench my hair in Olive Oil and go to sleep with it, about once a week, or once my hair feels dry, and then CO in the morning. And then every night, or every-other night, I like to just get a little bit of oil, like a quarter size for my shoulder length hair, and run it through, sort of like a leave in conditioner and de-frizzer. =]

4. I think you should decide what you think looks best and do it. >.<

5. Never heard of that! Again, I'm a newbie.


As for the limp hair, I don't know how to help. D; But I hope I helped in some way! Goodluck. =]

Olive oil is really difficult to get out of hair using no 'poo methods. I wouldn't recommend it. Instead, try coconut, jojoba, avocado or one of the other lighter oils. Olive oil is far too viscous and heavy, though it is nice for hair.

[countryhopper]

Wow, thanx for all the responses! I'll try to vary my washing routine with some different stuff. I think maybe part of my problem may be that my hair is fine and I don't have loads of it (I envy you guys that have thick, wavy hair!!!), but I can't change my hair type that I've got. I've just got to find the best way to make it work for me.

Glad to know there are so many no-pooers! Is there a no poo thread on here?

[-simply Venus-]

Olive oil is really difficult to get out of hair using no 'poo methods. I wouldn't recommend it. Instead, try coconut, jojoba, avocado or one of the other lighter oils. Olive oil is far too viscous and heavy, though it is nice for hair. Hmm, for me it comes out with just a CO! O.o I have weird hair. XD

[bumblebums]

Hmm, for me it comes out with just a CO! O.o I have weird hair. XD

Well, CO is not the same as no 'poo, at least not for some people. You can distinguish between simply avoiding shampoo and avoiding all commercial hair products. My understanding of the OP's post is that she does not want to use conditioner any more than shampoo.

[Morrighan]

Hmm, for me it comes out with just a CO! O.o I have weird hair. XD

For me it comes out with just water. And it does for my mom too. Maybe the OP can experiment with it if she wants to try olive oil.

[Bellalalala]

hmm, I do BS and lemon juice washes about once or twice a week, and have been doing so for about 4-5 months.

I don't dilute the BS, just plop it on and rub it around. My hair doesn't seem to be taking any damage from it, and I have extremely fine hair.

Who knows, maybe I am doing long-term microscopic damage, but so far, I love the way it makes my hair feel, and I'm getting less split ends than ever before.

[lhangel9]

Hello! Neewbie here!

Ok, sorry for all the random thoughts/questions! Any help will be greatly appreciated!!


I've been no poo for just one week now.

1) I've tried the baking soda as well. Didn't work well for me. I'm now using a brown sugar scrub (it works great!). You mix 2 TBS of brown sugar w/ 2 TBS of your favorite conditioner (no sulfates of course). Don't let the brown sugar melt. Apply to all of your scalp, massage a couple of minutes, rinse thoroughly and then rinse again.:cheese:

2) I've only tried the WO a few times recently. I read somewhere that after several WO's the greasiness should subside. I'm beginning to notice it already. :)

3) I use an herbal oil on my scalp at night (every 2-3 nights) and massage for approximately 10 mins then I wash out the next day. It's not greasy at all. ;)

4) My hair is also fine and limp right now.:( I'll see what happens after about a full month of using the no poo/WO methods.

5) My hair has become super soft and I don't like folks touching my hair either. I'm not sure about cornstarch - never tried it.

Hope this helps somewhat. Good luck!! Your hair will grow. "Just give it time" (I know I've heard that one lots of times) but it's very true. Be Good To Your Hair AND It Will Be Good To You:)

[little_cherry]

Thanx! Yes, looking at all these nice hair pics is both motivating and discouraging... :wail:

I've avoided doing CO washes because I'm afraid it will make my hair look weighed down/ greasy. glad to know it's working for you!
My hair used to be just like yours...clumpy! I started just like you with the BS/ACV and finally progressed to CO. It has worked brilliantly on my hair. The secret to CO is the rinse very very well. I find that CO (with no cones or protein) is a much better cleanser than shampoos, tbh.

As for your recent hairstyle, Mines the exact same way. I'm going to grow it until the back reaches BSL, do micro trims on the back while taking more off the front part gradually so that the front will catch up to the back without it being a huge chop. :)

[countryhopper]

Hmm... good ideam about the trimming! I think I'll try that.

Last night I did a huge hair treatment:
*3 hours with olive oil
*wash with diluted baking soda water
* rinse with honey, black tea, lavender, and about a tablespoon of powdered milk.

Maybe I overdid it? I wanted to cover my bases all at once (oiling, moisturising, protein, acidic rinse with the tea)! But today my hair is soft and shiny! Hooray!!

[Athena's Owl]

i do a CO method. i'm also a type 3, so our hair is very different. but one thing that i have found that is important with CO washing is the thorough cleansing of the scalp with a good massage, and rinsing it absolutely clean, even if i AM going to be adding yet more conditioner as a leave in!

[LadyVictoria]

Our hair type is pretty much the same and I too was afraid of CO washes because I thought my hair would look too greasy. I was so shocked when I finally tried it, it has done wonders for my hair! It gets less greasy less often because my scalp is not over compensating for me stripping away ALL it's natural oils. I find CO only removes the uneccesary sebum but leaves enough to leave it naturally conditioned.

What has really saved my hair is throwing away my plastic paddle brush and replacing it with mostly finger combing, wide tooth combing and using a natural boar bristle brush at night. Also giving up products containing protein or SLS (protein overload pratically murdered my hair). I have also added coconut and EVOO to my regime along with sleeping on a satin pillowcase with my hair in a single english braid and wearing my hair up in protective updos every single day.

As far as cutting your layers, that is entirely up to you. I just wear my hair up all the time and am forgetting about mine until they grow out and I can cut my hair to be all the same length. I wish you the best of luck in your hair quest, you CAN have long, healthy hair.

[countryhopper]

Great advice, everyone! Thanx!