PDA

View Full Version : Another "Clarifying" thread



Svenja
February 1st, 2010, 03:20 PM
Hi there!

I have recently written in my blog that my hair feels increasingly waxy and limp and a nice woman (thanks!!) told me to think about clarifying. So I searched the forum and the quintessence was that most of you use clarifying because of silicone build-up. I do not use anything that contains cones (not even water-soluble ones). So I cannot have a build-up (or can i?!). Is it necessary to clarify nevertheless? And if so, how to do it the best and softest way?

If this is "clarifying" thread number 12,763 I do apologize!

Kind regards,
Svenja

Sammich
February 1st, 2010, 03:24 PM
I have the exact same question actually, I've been cone free after clarifying once and it's been exactly like you.
My ends are also really waxy and stiff when they get tangled... It's strange. I wonder what that could be if anyone could tell me please? :)

Thanks for posting your much needed thread. ;)

Anje
February 1st, 2010, 05:02 PM
Yes, it's possible to get buildup from non-silicone products. Furthermore, some people find the same product more likely to build up than others.

For example, I really don't get much buildup using the Suave Naturals line, as long as I stay away from the coconut stuff. Other people find the moisturizing waxes in there coat their hair in no time, even though we're all COing with the stuff. Ktani has written about getting buildup from tea rinses, if the plant has resins or tannins, for example.

Personally, I prefer using an SLS (or ALS) shampoo for clarifying, and simply modify the technique to suds hair to the ends. Others like baking soda, but I find that it's really nasty and seems hard on my hair. And it smells awful when mixed with the ALS shampoo!

FrannyG
February 1st, 2010, 05:09 PM
Yes, other elements besides cones can cause buildup. I'm conefree, but need to clarify from time to time.

I use Herbal Essence's clarifying shampoo. It's inexpensive and effective. It used to be called "Degunkifying" shampoo, and now it's called "Drama Clean" at least here in Canada. There are any number of clarifying shampoos out there. You just have to look.

Make sure to give your hair a very good moisturizing deep treatment afterwards. I really hope it gives you the results you're looking for. :)

Avalin
February 1st, 2010, 05:25 PM
Question: Is sodium Trideceth Sulfate clarifying? I have a bottle of baby shampoo that is made with it.

ravenreed
February 1st, 2010, 07:37 PM
I don't use cones, but I still get build up. I think my non-cone conditioner is the culprit.


Hi there!

I have recently written in my blog that my hair feels increasingly waxy and limp and a nice woman (thanks!!) told me to think about clarifying. So I searched the forum and the quintessence was that most of you use clarifying because of silicone build-up. I do not use anything that contains cones (not even water-soluble ones). So I cannot have a build-up (or can i?!). Is it necessary to clarify nevertheless? And if so, how to do it the best and softest way?

If this is "clarifying" thread number 12,763 I do apologize!

Kind regards,
Svenja

SlightlySoprano
February 1st, 2010, 07:40 PM
I JUST was going to post a thread on this very question! Thank you!!

Does anybody clarify on a semi-regular basis (ex, once a month, or every 2 months) or just when you feel your hair needs it?

Elenna
February 1st, 2010, 08:00 PM
Even water can deposit minerals and/or chemicals on hair. Gosh, where to begin! There are so many ways to get gunk in your hair. Hair gets tangly, snarly, and rough.

I mixed baking soda with shampoo and shampooed with that. It worked like a charm! Hair went back to being well-behaved and soft again. The last time I only used plain baking soda, it dried out my hair.

sibiryachka
February 1st, 2010, 09:47 PM
Can anyone suggest how to tell when clarifying is needed, and how to select a method? I see mentions of using vinegar, using baking soda, using a specific kind of shampoo... The water at my house is slightly acidic, so would that mean I should use baking soda rather than vinegar? I'm thinking clarifying before a henna treatment might be a good idea, but I don't know where to begin!

Svenja
February 2nd, 2010, 02:17 AM
Thank you so much for all your replies! I think - and agree with Ravenree here - my silicone-free conditioner is the culprit. I have washed my hair with a different shampoo this morning and left out the conditioner (was not easy, I'm telling you! :laugh:) and my hair already looks and feels so much better. As it is quite hard to find good natural shampoos around here, I might end up with the baking soda method. I've done that in the past. It's not the greatest for my hair but a deep treatment afterwards does the trick.

@sibiryachka
What I do is: 1/2 coffee spoon of baking soda in a jug, fill it up with 200ml BOILING water and stir it until the soda is all gone, then I fill the jug up with 300 ml of cold water. I rinse my hair with normal water, pour the sodawater on my head (make sure it goes everywhere!) and massage it in a little. Your hair will feel a bit strange and soapy. Then I rinse it out very well (!!) and pour 2 litres of cold water with a shot of cider vinegar over my head.

aisling
February 2nd, 2010, 03:43 AM
I JUST was going to post a thread on this very question! Thank you!!

Does anybody clarify on a semi-regular basis (ex, once a month, or every 2 months) or just when you feel your hair needs it?

I do it on a feel basis, usually every 6-10 weeks it seems, but it is all based on feel.


Can anyone suggest how to tell when clarifying is needed, and how to select a method? I see mentions of using vinegar, using baking soda, using a specific kind of shampoo... The water at my house is slightly acidic, so would that mean I should use baking soda rather than vinegar? I'm thinking clarifying before a henna treatment might be a good idea, but I don't know where to begin!

Signs that you need to clarify:

waxy, gunky, greasy hair, especially the length, you feel like it never gets clean
dry, tangly, velcro like ends that tangle and stick to each other despite detangling


I really recommend buying a cheap clarifying shampoo, vinegar DOES NOT clarify* and my experience with baking soda isn't the best. Also remember to wash your hair well from root to tip when you clarify, not only your scalp. It's generally the length that really needs to get degunked.

*vinegar can make products rinse out better while washing but won't get rid of build up.

Dreams_in_Pink
February 2nd, 2010, 04:10 AM
oh that's cool. now i learnt that there's NO WAY to go totally sulphate-free :(

Can i ask what to do when your scalp reacts a lot to sulphates?? and your hair and scalp is too dry to use baking soda?? how would you clarify then?

Svenja
February 2nd, 2010, 04:14 AM
Well, use a sulphate free shampoo, or if you cannot, then dillute the shampoo with water. That might help. You might also want to create your own shampoo (there are some only containing of egg and honey and stuff, nothing chemical).
If your scalp is too dry for baking soda, use a mild clarifying shampoo or keep the soda-mix away from your skin :)

Dreams_in_Pink
February 2nd, 2010, 04:21 AM
I tried dilluting but somehow i couldn't manage to get it on my head :S it flowed through my fingers :D
In my next wash, i'll try to leave conditioner on dry hair for an hour before wash, hoping it will work. If i still get that oily-waxy feeling, i'll try to use sulfate-free poo on scalp and clarify my length with SLS (which will be hard to do with my shoulder length hair) :shrug:

by the way, thanks for bringing up clarifying topic :D

Svenja
February 2nd, 2010, 04:35 AM
I'm glad the thread helped some people too :D

Madame J
February 2nd, 2010, 08:31 AM
I don't even use conditioner and I get build up. I suspect it is the castor oil from my shampoo bars. That doesn't mean they're bad -- they leave my hair nice normally, and I just have to wash with a non-castor-oil-containing soap once a month.

sibiryachka
February 2nd, 2010, 02:09 PM
I do it on a feel basis, usually every 6-10 weeks it seems, but it is all based on feel.



Signs that you need to clarify:

waxy, gunky, greasy hair, especially the length, you feel like it never gets clean
dry, tangly, velcro like ends that tangle and stick to each other despite detangling


I really recommend buying a cheap clarifying shampoo, vinegar DOES NOT clarify* and my experience with baking soda isn't the best. Also remember to wash your hair well from root to tip when you clarify, not only your scalp. It's generally the length that really needs to get degunked.

*vinegar can make products rinse out better while washing but won't get rid of build up.
Exquisitely helpful, thank you!

Anje
February 2nd, 2010, 05:21 PM
Signs that you need to clarify:
waxy, gunky, greasy hair, especially the length, you feel like it never gets clean
dry, tangly, velcro like ends that tangle and stick to each other despite detanglingFor the record, if clarifying doesn't fix dry, tangly ends, the next culprit in line is protein overload. Non-protein-based moisture treatments are the best thing I've found to treat this.

slz
February 2nd, 2010, 06:01 PM
oh that's cool. now i learnt that there's NO WAY to go totally sulphate-free :(

Can i ask what to do when your scalp reacts a lot to sulphates?? and your hair and scalp is too dry to use baking soda?? how would you clarify then?

A question that might help you : does anybody know if shikakai happens to be clarifying ? I used it for the first time last saturday, it left my hair so soft, reading this thread I really wonder if maybe that's why. I used it on my roots only, so I'm going to try on my velcro ends tomorrow. I'll tell you.

Kirry-Folk
February 2nd, 2010, 06:09 PM
Are we allowed to make certain product recommendations?

I've been using a clarifying conditioner for a few years and I absolutely love it. I've never used anything else to clarify that has worked as well for me.

I clarify every two weeks.

Dreams_in_Pink
February 3rd, 2010, 03:40 AM
A question that might help you : does anybody know if shikakai happens to be clarifying ? I used it for the first time last saturday, it left my hair so soft, reading this thread I really wonder if maybe that's why. I used it on my roots only, so I'm going to try on my velcro ends tomorrow. I'll tell you.

i searched for it on wikipedia and it says it's a mild cleanser for hair.

SHIKAKAI (Acacia Concinna) is a little known secret for maintaining healthy hair. It is the best, most natural shampoo we've found. Its gentle, low pH lather cleans thoroughly without drying the hair or scalp. It leaves hair smooth, shiny and full of body. It is a true and natural alternative to soap and detergent based shampoos.


clarifying shampoo needs to be harsh enough to strip hair of everything, as far as i know. BUT, if i can find this plant somewhere here (where you can't even find coconut oil) i'll definitely try it!!

ilovelonghair
February 3rd, 2010, 07:42 AM
I started a related thread (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=40901) about a week ago, but people kept on mentioned things I didn't understand like ALS, SLS, SLES, I asked what that was, but so far, no reply.
I have used clarifying shampoo, didn't work, I cut off near tailbone hair back to waist, didn't work (don't worry that will be back in 2 months time), I used a special henna mask, didn't work, backing soda doesn't work, s&d doesn't work. Help! The rest of my hair is perfectly normal.

Svenja
February 3rd, 2010, 07:45 AM
Hi!
For the most common abbreviations have a look here:

Abbreviations on LHC (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=10)

I hope this clarifies things for you.... [excuse the pun :laugh: ]

ilovelonghair
February 3rd, 2010, 08:18 AM
LOL!

SLES and ALS weren't in the list though

Arctic
February 3rd, 2010, 08:20 AM
LOL!

SLES and ALS weren't in the list though

SLS is sodium lauryl sulfate
SLES is sodium laureth sulfate
ALS is ammonium lauryl sulfate

Gothic Lolita
February 3rd, 2010, 08:29 AM
If nothing works, maybe there still was some coating ingredient in the shampoo? I've experienced this and had to wash several times with an SLS shampoo before all the stuff came out and my length was normal again. I'd look out for things like cones and -polyquarternium.......

ilovelonghair
February 3rd, 2010, 08:35 AM
SLS is sodium lauryl sulfate
SLES is sodium laureth sulfate
ALS is ammonium lauryl sulfate

Where to buy that stuff?

Btw, love your signature!

Svenja
February 3rd, 2010, 08:37 AM
So you really want to buy that stuff? These are quite harsh tensides...

young&reckless
February 3rd, 2010, 08:43 AM
Where to buy that stuff?

Btw, love your signature!

They are the mort common "soaps" in most commercial shampoos. 90% of the shampoos in the hair care row should contain one or more of these.

Dreams_in_Pink
February 3rd, 2010, 09:23 AM
If nothing works, maybe there still was some coating ingredient in the shampoo? I've experienced this and had to wash several times with an SLS shampoo before all the stuff came out and my length was normal again. I'd look out for things like cones and -polyquarternium.......

oh my goodness!!! my shampoo has no cones but polyquarternium!! Does that build up too?

Svenja
February 3rd, 2010, 09:34 AM
No it does not. As far as I know polyquaternium (Polyquaternium-80 etc) are water-soluble. They wash out with every wash. No worries. I have had this conversation on a German hairforum.

Dreams_in_Pink
February 3rd, 2010, 09:50 AM
great to hear that... *sigh of relief*

Arctic
February 3rd, 2010, 09:57 AM
No it does not. As far as I know polyquaternium (Polyquaternium-80 etc) are water-soluble. They wash out with every wash. No worries. I have had this conversation on a German hairforum.

I beg to differ: polyquats are notorious of their building up ability, in fact they are meant to coat the hair shafts.

Svenja
February 3rd, 2010, 10:13 AM
Polyquaternium (http://http://www.chemicalland21.com/lifescience/UH/POLYQUATERNIUM%2010.htm)

Poluquaternium-7 (http://http://www.theherbarie.com/Polyquaternium-7-pr-53.html)

If you keep on googling or using WIKI - you'll see they are water-soluble :)

They wash out from the shafts with every wash - however if you do not rinse well enough there's a tiny chance of build-up. So clarifying form time to time would be advisable. I can ask my brother-in-law if you want, he's a chemist.

Dreams_in_Pink
February 3rd, 2010, 10:31 AM
Polyquaternium (http://http://www.chemicalland21.com/lifescience/UH/POLYQUATERNIUM%2010.htm)

Poluquaternium-7 (http://http://www.theherbarie.com/Polyquaternium-7-pr-53.html)

If you keep on googling or using WIKI - you'll see they are water-soluble :)

They wash out from the shafts with every wash - however if you do not rinse well enough there's a tiny chance of build-up. So clarifying form time to time would be advisable. I can ask my brother-in-law if you want, he's a chemist.

Because they are positively charged, they neutralize the negative charges of most shampoos and hair proteins and help hair lie flat. Their positive charges also ionically bond them to hair and skin.

maybe that's the reason for buildup?? it sticks to hair shaft just like hair dye.
please do ask if you can (:

ilovelonghair
February 3rd, 2010, 10:51 PM
Today I did the clarifying shampoo again and a vinegar rince, lets see what that does, oh and a bit of jojoba oil in the ends.
to be continued, when my hair is dry :)

Svenja
February 4th, 2010, 07:50 AM
So update.

I asked my brother-in-law and he said that polyquaternium are polycationic polymers. Polycationic polymers dissociate in aqueous solutions (for instance water), in doing so the polymers get charged. These charged polymers again are also called polysalts. He said he cannot think of any polyquaternium that is NOT water-soluble as they reach their charge only by water.

On top of his head he could think of the following water-soluble polyquats:

Polyquaternium-10
Polyquaternium-80
Polyquaternium-86
Polyquaternium-37
Polyquaternium-39
Polyquaternium-11
POLYQUAT 3000
POLYQUAT 50
POLYQUAT 100H
POLYQUAT 550

But as I said, he is convinced all of them are water-soluble - and he must be right as the whole business is his job :)

Dreams_in_Pink
February 4th, 2010, 08:21 AM
So update.

I asked my brother-in-law and he said that polyquaternium are polycationic polymers. Polycationic polymers dissociate in aqueous solutions (for instance water), in doing so the polymers get charged. These charged polymers again are also called polysalts. He said he cannot think of any polyquaternium that is NOT water-soluble as they reach their charge only by water.

On top of his head he could think of the following water-soluble polyquats:

Polyquaternium-10
Polyquaternium-80
Polyquaternium-86
Polyquaternium-37
Polyquaternium-39
Polyquaternium-11
POLYQUAT 3000
POLYQUAT 50
POLYQUAT 100H
POLYQUAT 550

But as I said, he is convinced all of them are water-soluble - and he must be right as the whole business is his job :)

That's great news (at least for me lol) Thank you Svenja!

Svenja
February 4th, 2010, 09:31 AM
You're most welcome ;)

ilovelonghair
February 4th, 2010, 11:21 PM
Today I did the clarifying shampoo again and a vinegar rince, lets see what that does, oh and a bit of jojoba oil in the ends.
to be continued, when my hair is dry :)

Result: nothing.
Have to try something different...

Dreams_in_Pink
February 5th, 2010, 02:15 AM
Result: nothing.
Have to try something different...

vinegar rinse might make your feel coated. Try to skip it next time? (or dilute it more)