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Toadstool
January 14th, 2010, 02:10 AM
Sorry to rain on anyone's parade but I was considering taking this and spoke to a biochemist friend about it. She was horrified and emailed me this link:

http://www.vitalhealthzone.com/nutrition/minerals/silica.html#9

Note it says over 100mg a day is toxic. The tolerable upper limit is 29-30mg and that should come from food anyway. It is very rare to be deficient in it.
Please note it says toxic levels can cause irreversible kidney damage.
It also says you must consult a doctor if you are considering taking any silica supplement.
I know how tempting it is to take these things to speed up hair growth but please don't take this stuff, or at least do so in full awareness of the risks.
With love,
Toadstool xxxx

Dreams_in_Pink
January 14th, 2010, 02:29 AM
this is why i never use any drugs to speed up hair growth. hair already grows at a constant rate.

Elainehali
January 14th, 2010, 02:36 AM
Cool, well bananas have a lot of silica. I do tend to eat a banana a day most days.:hollie::hollie::hollie:

Thanks for sharing.

Hairtada
January 14th, 2010, 03:23 AM
Food grade DE is less than 1% silica.It is full of other essential minerals as well. It is perfectly ok to take in the amounts people here are taking due to the low silica factor.That is one of the things discussed in the DE thread here. DE in the food grade form is very safe to use.
Many many people have taken this amount of silica for years with zero ill effect.

Warnings are always good, they make people think.Always good to ask your doctor before starting to take anything if you have concerns.

redneckprincess
January 14th, 2010, 04:24 AM
Cool, well bananas have a lot of silica. I do tend to eat a banana a day most days.:hollie::hollie::hollie:

Thanks for sharing.
Do bananas contain silica?
What other foods contain sillica?

Toadstool
January 14th, 2010, 04:58 AM
Do bananas contain silica?
What other foods contain sillica?

If you click on the link in the first post in this thread it gives a list of foods that contain silica.

Othala
January 14th, 2010, 05:07 AM
Thanks for the warning Toadstool. I was not considering taking DE but these sort of fads take hold and people can end up damaging themselves, so well done to you for being so conscientious and caring about your fellow LHC-ers.

Toadstool
January 14th, 2010, 05:14 AM
Thanks for the warning Toadstool. I was not considering taking DE but these sort of fads take hold and people can end up damaging themselves, so well done to you for being so conscientious and caring about your fellow LHC-ers.

Thanks Othala I appreciate it :)

Akiko
January 14th, 2010, 05:36 AM
I saw the chart on the linked site. It says 250mg of banana contains 13.6mg of silica. That cannot be true, can it? I am eating a banana. It weighs 100g. So....

1000/0.250x13.6=5440 mg of silica in a single banana!

That's 388-600 times more than RDI. Maybe it is supposed to be 13.6mg silica/250g banana.

RavennaNight
January 14th, 2010, 06:26 AM
This is why I just take my daily multivitamin and call it a day. :shrug: It will grow as nature intends it to.

linda g
January 14th, 2010, 06:53 AM
Look how much is in a liter of beer! :eyebrows:

marikamt
January 14th, 2010, 07:11 AM
Look how much is in a liter of beer! :eyebrows:

I know.... :lol: first thought was "wow, drinking beer is good for my hair...." :rolling:

Yedda
January 14th, 2010, 07:36 AM
Do anyone know how much silica is actually in Diatomaceous earth, in g/mg?

I was looking online and couldn't find those numbers off the bat.

redneckprincess
January 14th, 2010, 07:45 AM
If you click on the link in the first post in this thread it gives a list of foods that contain silica.
ok thanks, I was on my phone earlier and couldnt click the link

Anje
January 14th, 2010, 07:57 AM
Thanks for the heads-up. The results people have been getting with diatomaceous earth sound wonderful, but the stuff gives me the willies. Sounds too similar to asbestos (another miracle substance in its day, and also a crystalline glass) for me to try it.

LawyerGirl
January 14th, 2010, 07:59 AM
Thanks for the warning, I switched from a silica supplement to DE because I thought it might be safer. In the amounts I take, I believe it is safe.

melrose1985
January 14th, 2010, 08:00 AM
So... it's not exactlly the DE but the silica that's in it that can be a problem?

MandyBeth
January 14th, 2010, 08:12 AM
Yup, basically.

I've got bad kidneys thanks to my lupus, my doctor knows I take DE and have for over 4 years and he's fine with it. Actually, he prefers me taking DE over what else I could take.

abritta3
January 14th, 2010, 10:58 AM
I will admit that I did limited research on this but that was because I had noticed in the DE thread that some users were saying they had taken it for 4years or longer with no adverse side affects.
It is always a good idea though to check and see how it can affects us as individuals.

sherigayle
January 14th, 2010, 11:15 AM
MandyBeth, how much DE do you take? I've asked my doctor about it and he's looking into it for my arthritis and Fibro.

MandyBeth
January 14th, 2010, 11:31 AM
I am one of the 4+ year users without side effects. Basically, I've been in areas where the risk is fairly high for a parasitic infection. My immune system is suppressed and goes hay-wire on it's own accord, so I'm fairly likely to get the parasites. I take DE, I've tested clean, I show no signs of parasites, and I don't have to take more nasty chemicals.

I take a spoonful (table spoon, not heaping full), mix it in with applesauce and take it in the morning. I've also mixed the DE in my morning drink and drank it quick, or put it in a bottle that I could keep shaking (like juice) and took it that way.

I don't think it does anything for my fibro/RA/SLE. But I can't say it DOESN'T do anything. I'm not worse on the DE, but I do believe if I had to take more chemicals to kill off bugs, I'd probably have a fairly nasty health decline - so in a way, it's helpful.

As for if the silica is harmful - I likely ingest over the upper limit. I take 5 1,000 mcg tabs of Biotin a day and silica is the 2nd "other" ingredient in the pill. Silica is also helpful for if you have risk for cardiovascular issues and bone/joint issues - of which both RA and SLE have increased risks. My renal problems are from the SLE, which is proven to my doctors, not from an over-dose of silica. Not sure exactly what the overdose even is, I can't find that part. Just that if you do OD on it, you risk renal damage. If there was a clear number or risk, I might be more concerned.

Which I consider a basic instruction on anything. I can OD on water also, but I'm hardly going to suggest that you don't drink water. I'm going to say that 99% of people I've met don't drink enough water and another bottle (20 oz) daily is likely going to help you.

Plus - is the damage shown in people, other mammals, rats, fish, what? I can find studies daily that say x chemical/compound/substance causes cancer in lab rats. Having owned rats, daily life causes cancer in them and at the same ages, so something causes cancer. Oxygen does also. I still plan on breathing. While I don't suggest we all go drink vast quanitites of aspartame - to get the same cancer causing as shown in lab rats - you have to drink 21 cans of diet soda every day for 60 years basically. The Ramazzini Foundation found that rats who were force fed OVER 100 times the recommended maximum amount daily lived just as long as control rats - and they were trying to prove how bad aspartame is.

Airisuu
January 14th, 2010, 11:52 AM
Do anyone know how much silica is actually in Diatomaceous earth, in g/mg?

I was looking online and couldn't find those numbers off the bat.

The Soluble Silicon content in DE is 21.67PPM and accounts for .002761 % of it's composition. That's all I've been able to find, and I'm not sure how to work that out to g/mg.

Source: http://www.internet-grocer.net/diatome.htm
Also see spiffy chart giving detailed break down of mineral content in DE: http://www.internet-grocer.net/de-1.jpg
(I don't want to imbed the image because I don't want to nick their bandwidth and also don't wish to submit people who aren't interested in minutia to info overload.)

It is important to keep in mind that there are several kinds of silica. The type of silica found in Food Grade DE is Amorphous Silica. DE has been found in human studies to lower blood cholesterol levels. (Studies performed by Institute of Medical Chemistry and Biochemistry, University of Innsbruck, Austria. Source: http://www.diatomitecanada.com/the-silica-connection-diatomaceous-earth.htm )

At any rate, you're certainly not raining on my parade :) Thanks for the heads up, and I certainly appreciate your concerns. At my current dosage of around 1 TBSP/day I don't feel that I'm in danger of exceeding the safely recommended doses. I will continue to take DE as I have experienced several health benefits from it including more restful sleep, (I used to wake up several times throughout the night for no real reason,) a marked decrease in joint pain from my Rheumatoid Arthritis, improved digestion, and a general decrease in the severity of my allergies. (Now if only it could prevent me from catching cold...)

teela1978
January 14th, 2010, 12:03 PM
Based on those numbers (unless I messed up somewhere... which is possible). There'd be 0.02761 mg of soluble silica per gram of diatomaceous earth. So you'd have to eat 3.6 kilos of the stuff to be in the toxic zone.

On the other hand, it sounds like a banana will give you more of the silica you'd need anyway... and I'd rather eat a banana than dirt.

marobader
January 14th, 2010, 12:09 PM
I saw the chart on the linked site. It says 250mg of banana contains 13.6mg of silica. That cannot be true, can it? I am eating a banana. It weighs 100g. So....

1000/0.250x13.6=5440 mg of silica in a single banana!

That's 388-600 times more than RDI. Maybe it is supposed to be 13.6mg silica/250g banana.
it is say 13.6mg for 250g banana

jaine
January 14th, 2010, 12:15 PM
Based on those numbers (unless I messed up somewhere... which is possible). There'd be 0.02761 mg of soluble silica per gram of diatomaceous earth. So you'd have to eat 3.6 kilos of the stuff to be in the toxic zone.

On the other hand, it sounds like a banana will give you more of the silica you'd need anyway... and I'd rather eat a banana than dirt.

I checked your numbers and arrived at the same result. I also ate 5 bananas today. Go me!
:cheese:

Airisuu
January 14th, 2010, 12:37 PM
Based on those numbers (unless I messed up somewhere... which is possible). There'd be 0.02761 mg of soluble silica per gram of diatomaceous earth. So you'd have to eat 3.6 kilos of the stuff to be in the toxic zone.

On the other hand, it sounds like a banana will give you more of the silica you'd need anyway... and I'd rather eat a banana than dirt.

Awesome, thanks for doing the math!

Regarding Banana vs. DE, I can't really blame you :agree: While I'm definitely a fan of DE, I realize that it's not for everyone. It took me months to get past my mental road block of "It. Is. DIRT."

In the end I gave in because in all of my researches I couldn't find any good reason not to give it a shot. (And to be honest, I've tried crazier remedies.)

bumblebums
January 14th, 2010, 12:46 PM
I am one of the 4+ year users without side effects. Basically, I've been in areas where the risk is fairly high for a parasitic infection. My immune system is suppressed and goes hay-wire on it's own accord, so I'm fairly likely to get the parasites. I take DE, I've tested clean, I show no signs of parasites, and I don't have to take more nasty chemicals.

I don't think it does anything for my fibro/RA/SLE. But I can't say it DOESN'T do anything. I'm not worse on the DE, but I do believe if I had to take more chemicals to kill off bugs, I'd probably have a fairly nasty health decline - so in a way, it's helpful.


Raw garlic is a powerful anti-parasitic, and the most dangerous side effect it has on most people is smelly breath and BO. :)

Pumpkin seeds are good, too, and delicious.

katha
January 14th, 2010, 12:48 PM
Wow thanks for that info. Will reconsider my supplements..

MandyBeth
January 14th, 2010, 03:51 PM
Based on those numbers (unless I messed up somewhere... which is possible). There'd be 0.02761 mg of soluble silica per gram of diatomaceous earth. So you'd have to eat 3.6 kilos of the stuff to be in the toxic zone.

On the other hand, it sounds like a banana will give you more of the silica you'd need anyway... and I'd rather eat a banana than dirt.

Math is about right.

If 100mg is the toxic dose - eating 2 1000g bananas is toxic. I'm far, far more likely to eat 2 1000g bananas without thinking about it than I am going to be eating 3.6 kilos (or about 7.92 pounds) of DE - which isn't dirt, but crushed diatoms.

Yes - if you inhale silica as silicon dioxide - it is a hazard. Amorphous silica does not show the same problems at all. And (if you don't inhale it), it appears inert and harmless. USCDC recommends using DE for cleanup of toxic liquid spills. Food grade DE - which is the only one that is recommended by anyone here I believe - is amorphous silica. Pool grade DE - which is NOT recommended - because it's heated and treated with soda ash - reverts to a crystalline form and is not safe.

For the record - I don't strongly recommend inhaling ANYTHING other than basic air without a doctor's advice. I will say for all of my ideas that it may not do anything really - I do think I do better with DE than without. I would not be surprised to find out some day that my system requires all the silica I'd give it in it's ongoing fight against my immune system that wants to destroy my body.

Please also keep in mind - I'm very warped. I've had JRA/RA for 21 years. I've has SLE for 13 years ago. In 1950, SLE killed 90% of people in 5 years. I figure I'm living on borrowed time every day, so I just don't worry about it.

I don't mind cooked garlic, but raw garlic is something that my system will rebel against. Phooey.

Now, pumpkin seeds (pepitas) - yummy!

Akiko
January 14th, 2010, 03:55 PM
it is say 13.6mg for 250g banana

O, thanks for the now. Now it is in grams! Strange. When I checked this morning, it was 250mg on my screen. I checked multiple times. Weird. Well, anyhow it sounds right now!:)

Pierre
January 14th, 2010, 03:58 PM
it is say 13.6mg for 250g banana
Actually it says 13.6 MG, which is obviously wrong. Silica in bananas is not magnetic!

teela1978
January 14th, 2010, 04:08 PM
Math is about right.

If 100mg is the toxic dose - eating 2 1000g bananas is toxic. I'm far, far more likely to eat 2 1000g bananas without thinking about it than I am going to be eating 3.6 kilos (or about 7.92 pounds) of DE - which isn't dirt, but crushed diatoms.

Yes - if you inhale silica as silicon dioxide - it is a hazard. Amorphous silica does not show the same problems at all. And (if you don't inhale it), it appears inert and harmless. USCDC recommends using DE for cleanup of toxic liquid spills. Food grade DE - which is the only one that is recommended by anyone here I believe - is amorphous silica. Pool grade DE - which is NOT recommended - because it's heated and treated with soda ash - reverts to a crystalline form and is not safe.

For the record - I don't strongly recommend inhaling ANYTHING other than basic air without a doctor's advice. I will say for all of my ideas that it may not do anything really - I do think I do better with DE than without. I would not be surprised to find out some day that my system requires all the silica I'd give it in it's ongoing fight against my immune system that wants to destroy my body.

Please also keep in mind - I'm very warped. I've had JRA/RA for 21 years. I've has SLE for 13 years ago. In 1950, SLE killed 90% of people in 5 years. I figure I'm living on borrowed time every day, so I just don't worry about it.

I don't mind cooked garlic, but raw garlic is something that my system will rebel against. Phooey.

Now, pumpkin seeds (pepitas) - yummy!

Wow, I want to see your bananas :) There are probably 5 bananas in a kilo (at least where I live)... so 10 bananas would be a toxic dose.

Merkaba
January 14th, 2010, 04:16 PM
People may not like my 2 cents but here it is: EVERYTHING is dangerous if taken in large enough doses. However I live my life without worrying about things such as this. It is dirt, it can be eaten- it comes from the earth!! I just can't live my life in constant fear of such things. In addition, I KNOW what its like to have kidney pain. Kidneys don't just "get damaged" or fail without giving lots of painful warnings. As long as my body feels good I know it is ok with what I am doing.

ravenreed
January 14th, 2010, 05:41 PM
I don't believe that this is true. People can get liver failure or kidney problems from just one or two overdoses of pain relievers such as Tylenol. Iron comes from dirt and can cause serious organ problems in too high an amount. Toddlers have died from iron poisoning because they thought that their vitamins were candy and ate a handful.

A little of something might be absolutely necessary to our body functioning, like salt. However, too much over a long period of time can be damaging. Too much might be just a small amount more than what we require...

I am not saying don't do it. I am just saying that natural things can still kill you.



People may not like my 2 cents but here it is: EVERYTHING is dangerous if taken in large enough doses. However I live my life without worrying about things such as this. It is dirt, it can be eaten- it comes from the earth!! I just can't live my life in constant fear of such things. In addition, I KNOW what its like to have kidney pain. Kidneys don't just "get damaged" or fail without giving lots of painful warnings. As long as my body feels good I know it is ok with what I am doing.

jivete
January 14th, 2010, 05:50 PM
I saw the chart on the linked site. It says 250mg of banana contains 13.6mg of silica. That cannot be true, can it? I am eating a banana. It weighs 100g. So....

1000/0.250x13.6=5440 mg of silica in a single banana!

That's 388-600 times more than RDI. Maybe it is supposed to be 13.6mg silica/250g banana.

I noticed that there seem to be some inconsistencies on their numbers too. It says the upper limits are about 30mg. A beer is supposed to have ~19mg and a banana ~14g. So if you drink a beer and eat a banana you've had too much silica.

jivete
January 14th, 2010, 05:58 PM
There is a large food-safe DE suppler in the US called Perma_Guard. On their website, they have links to FDA regulations, analysis, etc. Here is the link:

http://perma-guard.com/analysis.html

MandyBeth
January 14th, 2010, 06:53 PM
Here is the MSDS sheet for Perma-guard seed and grain DE.

http://perma-guard.com/msds/MSDS%20Grain&%20Seed%20Storage.pdf

For 60 pages of fun reading - KSU's lecture slides on inert dusts used for pesticides. Quite a long bit on DE, actually lots of good info if you are interested. It does mention GRAS and that DE can be tested to see if it meets that standard or not, and it does appear that Perma Guard (the common US brand) would meet GRAS standards.

http://www.ksre.ksu.edu/grsc_subi/Teaching/GRSC651/GRSC651_Courses_Material/lecture_slides/GRSC651_lect_20(1)_Inert_Dusts.pdf

WaitingSoLong
January 15th, 2010, 10:49 AM
I am so glad I read this thread before buying DE. I love bananas!

jojo
January 15th, 2010, 11:00 AM
Raw garlic is a powerful anti-parasitic, and the most dangerous side effect it has on most people is smelly breath and BO. :)

Pumpkin seeds are good, too, and delicious.

too much garlic can be harmful as its an anticoagulant and can cause bruising, hypotension and fainting spells and can even cause anaemia. If taken before surgery it increases the risk of hemorage too.

I take De and have noticed only positives; improved asthma almost non-existant, IBS much improved-more regular, more energy, better sleep patterns, moods more stable, reduced appetite as in sweet cravings, my chloresterol has reduced from 9 to 4, my BP is now 130/70 opposed to 200/100 and I have less pains in joints and as a bonus my hair grows quicker and looks shinier.

But I do appreciate toadstool for looking out for us and researching this, thank you TS xx

bumblebums
January 15th, 2010, 11:28 AM
too much garlic can be harmful as its an anticoagulant and can cause bruising, hypotension and fainting spells and can even cause anaemia. If taken before surgery it increases the risk of hemorage too.

Well, the good news is that unless you are swallowing whole bulbs of garlic Maria Full of Grace-style, it's pretty difficult to overdose on garlic. The potent flavor is a limiting factor in how much of it you can eat in one sitting. I don't think I recommended anyone to eat huge quantities of garlic; modest consumption should be enough to keep parasites in check.

Re: surgery--usually it is advised not to eat anything before going into surgery. Garlic is no exception.

Like many posters above have noted, a lot of substances can be dangerous when consumed immoderately. You can dangerously overdose on things like water and carrots, and you can die from peanuts and shellfish if you have an allergy. I do think, however, and I am very biased on this, that eating normal, wholesome foods is generally preferable and safe compared to ingesting supplements that contain concentrated, refined minerals. There are obviously different schools of thought on this.

MandyBeth
January 15th, 2010, 11:48 AM
The first question with the idea of eating a wholesome diet - how do we know that the soil in which the diet was grown is good? Do we know it's not contaminated with something that we may not want in us? Is the soil overused and now lacking in minerals or vitamins?

The second part is what does an individual person need. I take supplements that are prescribed by a doctor that are over what this original website says are toxic and well past what the upper tolerable limits are.

The third part - eating a wholesome diet. I try to be careful - but there are days I don't eat right and the reality is that probably adds up to a bit more often than it should. The reality is that I likely will never eat enough food to get in my daily calcium requirement. I don't take in milk products and there that level drops. So I take a supplement instead.

aisling
January 15th, 2010, 12:01 PM
Wow, I want to see your bananas :) There are probably 5 bananas in a kilo (at least where I live)... so 10 bananas would be a toxic dose.

No, not really. It's 21000 grams of bananas, that is 21 kilos, not 2.1kilos... It would mean about 105 bananas and I want to see the one who eats that many :)

teela1978
January 15th, 2010, 12:11 PM
No, not really. It's 21000 grams of bananas, that is 21 kilos, not 2.1kilos... It would mean about 105 bananas and I want to see the one who eats that many :)

I'm pretty sure it was 2 bananas at 1000 grams each, 2 1000 gram bananas. The information we've been using says 13.6g of silica per 250g banana...

so 54.4 g/kilo of bananas. if 100g of silica is toxic, 2 kilos of bananas is a toxic measure.

Not deadly, and probably no more toxic than taking a double dose of acetaminophen (tylenol/paracetamol), but somewhat damaging to the kidneys.

Unofficial_Rose
January 15th, 2010, 02:17 PM
Look how much is in a liter of beer! :eyebrows:

Now THAT is the best news I've heard all day! :D :beerchug:

Tabitha
January 15th, 2010, 02:37 PM
I'm pretty sure it was 2 bananas at 1000 grams each, 2 1000 gram bananas. The information we've been using says 13.6g of silica per 250g banana...

so 54.4 g/kilo of bananas. if 100g of silica is toxic, 2 kilos of bananas is a toxic measure.

Not deadly, and probably no more toxic than taking a double dose of acetaminophen (tylenol/paracetamol), but somewhat damaging to the kidneys.

[my bold]

I can't imagine a single banana weighing a kilo :disco:similarly, you would have problems eating 2 kg of bananas, IMO

There are 2.2 lbs to the kilo, so 2 kg = about four and a half pounds of bananas. :monkey:

aisling
January 15th, 2010, 09:56 PM
Math is about right.

If 100mg is the toxic dose - eating 2 1000g bananas is toxic. I'm far, far more likely to eat 2 1000g bananas without thinking about it than I am going to be eating 3.6 kilos (or about 7.92 pounds) of DE - which isn't dirt, but crushed diatoms.



I based my answer on this post, 21000g is still 21kilos (but I do think the writer means 2100g).


I'm pretty sure it was 2 bananas at 1000 grams each, 2 1000 gram bananas. The information we've been using says 13.6g of silica per 250g banana...

so 54.4 g/kilo of bananas. if 100g of silica is toxic, 2 kilos of bananas is a toxic measure.

Not deadly, and probably no more toxic than taking a double dose of acetaminophen (tylenol/paracetamol), but somewhat damaging to the kidneys.

Wherever you put a weird space, 21000 grams is 21 kilos, not 2.1kilos. Of course if you read 2 1000g as 2 times 1000 grams it might make sense but you really can't write like that, 2 1000g will look like 21thousand to many. And it should be 13.6mg (milligrams), not grams of silica.

Sissy
January 15th, 2010, 10:05 PM
although cucumbers are not listed on the link posted, they also contain silica. I agree that horsetail is a dangerous supplement and I eat carrots, oats, and cucumbers to get my silica. I've been eating bananas lately too!

teela1978
January 15th, 2010, 10:33 PM
I based my answer on this post, 21000g is still 21kilos (but I do think the writer means 2100g).



Wherever you put a weird space, 21000 grams is 21 kilos, not 2.1kilos. Of course if you read 2 1000g as 2 times 1000 grams it might make sense but you really can't write like that, 2 1000g will look like 21thousand to many. And it should be 13.6mg (milligrams), not grams of silica.
Mandy beth put the space in there. I was referring back to the post. And yes, it should be 13.6 mg instead of g. I'm pretty sure the writer meant 2 (1000g) bananas. Otherwise the math doesn't work. I think the pounds to kg and the weight of a banana just didn't work the first time around.

jojo
January 15th, 2010, 11:32 PM
[quote=bumblebums;936272]Well, the good news is that unless you are swallowing whole bulbs of garlic Maria Full of Grace-style, it's pretty difficult to overdose on garlic. The potent flavor is a limiting factor in how much of it you can eat in one sitting. I don't think I recommended anyone to eat huge quantities of garlic; modest consumption should be enough to keep parasites in check.
Yes I agree but if you are already taking anticoagulants such as warfarin or have an underlying problem such as hypothrombacemia (low platlets) it can cause bleeding, this happened to me during an operation 10 years ago, despite pre blood checks I lost over 1000 cc of blood which very nearly killed me during an operation, garlic is very healthy and im not disputing that but if people where to take very high dosages in an attempt to get faster growing hair, problems may arise.

Re: surgery--usually it is advised not to eat anything before going into surgery. Garlic is no exception. yes im a RN but its not the food content of garlic what can be problematic its the affect it has with the bloods chemistry. the reason why you are NBM is to prevent aspiratiion and vomiting due to the contents in your stomach.

jojo
January 15th, 2010, 11:35 PM
No, not really. It's 21000 grams of bananas, that is 21 kilos, not 2.1kilos... It would mean about 105 bananas and I want to see the one who eats that many :)
also be careful if you have renal or cardic problems, bananas also contain potasium but there again instant coffee contains twice as much! everything in moderation i suppose.

Elenna
January 16th, 2010, 12:34 AM
I'm not metric, but 21 kilos is ~46 pounds of bananas! Even a banana split would be hard to eat with that many bananas. And how many banana meals are we talking about, one, two?

ravenreed
January 16th, 2010, 01:03 AM
They sell garlic supplements in capsule form for those who want to avoid the overpowering taste...



Well, the good news is that unless you are swallowing whole bulbs of garlic Maria Full of Grace-style, it's pretty difficult to overdose on garlic. The potent flavor is a limiting factor in how much of it you can eat in one sitting. I don't think I recommended anyone to eat huge quantities of garlic; modest consumption should be enough to keep parasites in check.

Re: surgery--usually it is advised not to eat anything before going into surgery. Garlic is no exception.

Like many posters above have noted, a lot of substances can be dangerous when consumed immoderately. You can dangerously overdose on things like water and carrots, and you can die from peanuts and shellfish if you have an allergy. I do think, however, and I am very biased on this, that eating normal, wholesome foods is generally preferable and safe compared to ingesting supplements that contain concentrated, refined minerals. There are obviously different schools of thought on this.

Beatnik Guy
January 16th, 2010, 06:07 AM
I think warnings like this should be taken with a large pinch of silica, er, salt. :wink:

I have taken silica or horsetail (organic silica) capsules for years with no harmful effects.

pinchbeck
January 16th, 2010, 10:27 AM
I have taken silica or horsetail (organic silica) capsules for years with no harmful effects.Regarding horsetail, what have the positive effects been?

Toadstool
January 16th, 2010, 10:47 AM
I think warnings like this should be taken with a large pinch of silica, er, salt. :wink:

I think they should also be taken in the spirit in which I posted them, I didn't have to bother.

pinchbeck
January 16th, 2010, 10:58 AM
I will be following this post. If anyone has had side effects, I hope that they will share their experience in order to warn other LHC members. DE is an unconventional and peculiar alternative to speeding up hair growth, but I wonder if too many people desperate for faster and longer hair growth are willing to risk their health in order to achieve Rapunzel-length locks.

From what I have read, the benefits have been positive...so far!

pinchbeck
January 16th, 2010, 11:04 AM
I think they should also be taken in the spirit in which I posted them, I didn't have to bother.Members like you are needed to help provide information about the flipside of alternative hairgrowth supplements in order to help those interested make informed decisions.:)

Fairlight63
January 16th, 2010, 01:07 PM
Thank you Toadstool for posting the warning! I would like to grow long hair faster but not to the detriment of my health. Health has got to come first!

pinchbeck
January 16th, 2010, 05:16 PM
I would like to add a consideration to this post about DE. The following is information I came across a few minutes ago: Diatomaceous Earth usually contains a wide array of trace minerals as well as cutting up any intestinal worms you may happen to have hanging about in there. It has also been suggested that silica (the bulk of DE) helps the immune system, but again eating a healthy diet should provide you all the silica and trace minerals you need in a form that your body is far more likely to absorb.

One word of warning though. Some intestinal parasites have been shown to control or even prevent allergies. Our bodies have evolved to operate best with a wide range of "symbiotic" organisms living inside from bacteria up to things that are less pleasant to think about. Anyone who's had a strong dose of a wide spectrum antibiotic will tell you that it really makes you sick just by killing off your beneficial bacteria. Just something to think about when you next see a photo of a gross intestinal hookworm.

Canarygirl
January 16th, 2010, 06:27 PM
I pulled this from the article linked in the OP's first post:



Overdosage, toxicity and cautions for silica

None known.

I started taking some powdered silica dioxide that I had on hand, and I did feel something achey going in my kidneys. I stopped taking that and started taking Permaguard DE and felt nothing of the kind. So I do think it matters what kind you are taking. The article was not specific to amorphous silica in the Permaguard DE.

hennaphile
January 16th, 2010, 06:46 PM
I used to take vegetal silica, I hope I'm not screwed :rolleyes:

Toadstool
January 17th, 2010, 02:57 AM
Members like you are needed to help provide information about the flipside of alternative hairgrowth supplements in order to help those interested make informed decisions.:)
Thank you, and thank you to those who appreciated my post, whether they wish to take diatomaceous earth/silica or not.

DarkChocolate
January 21st, 2010, 09:58 AM
Is drinking horsetail tea dangerous?

WaitingSoLong
January 22nd, 2010, 10:03 AM
I have been following this and the other DE thread and have done my own looking online. I am glad to be informed of it all, and may one day need DE for pest control, but I have decided against trying DE for the time being. Part because I am not a fan of internet ordering and I cannot find it locally (I wanted to actually read the package myself). But the main reason I decided aginst it is because it sounds a bit too "weird" for me, personally, to try. LOL! Plus, I am taking other medicines for other things and do not want any weird side effects from adding this without doctors advice. Plus, if it is silica I need and it can be obtained naturally, I prefer that! In the long run, I have to say "it is just my hair" and not really worth the risks. Now, if it was a cure for some disease I had or something, that would be different.

I have learned the hard way about taking supplements I am not sure about, I have had many allergic reactions to supposedly harmless things.

I eat pretty healthy, and I have modified my diet to be more healthy in the new year. As I was already eating bananas, I am adding the bran for what I call my "branana" meal, at lunchtime, to get some extra silica.

I measued my hair a month ago and again today and I cannot seem to get a consistent measurement but seem to have had about 1/2" growth in a month. That is average. I plan to measure again in a month after my branana "diet". Unfortunately, I very much dislike cucumbers so will not be eating those.

I also began taking my old hair vitamin supplement I had quit taking for awhile. It has silica in it, but it does not say how much. It is listed as an "other" ingredient. It is also in my biotin supplement as an "other" ingredient. Does the U.S. FDA consider it inert?

I cannot find MSM local or in any vitamin supplement but have not yet looked in specialty stores. Can someone share exactly what this is and what it does?

I was sort of interested in the DE for the "side effects" listed as being positive, like for vision and intestinal detox or regulation but cannot find any concrete evidence DE will do this.

Anyway, I like reading people's updates after trying thing and remain very curious! As long as my hair doesn't STOP growing, I guess I will stick to my slow 6" a year.

caribou55313
February 24th, 2010, 08:56 PM
Cat Lady, a former member here, asked me to post a message for her and let everyone know what happened to her husband, who took diatomaceous earth and ibuprofen. (She quit the forum because she found it too addictive, so she can't post anymore, she says).

Here is the message she posted on HennaForHair forum:

If anyone from LHC is reading this I'd really appreciate it if they could post this warning on the Diametacous earth (DE) thread. My husband and I have been taking DE for a month or more now, and I've had no ill effects, but my husband hurt his leg and had to take ibuprofen for a week. It seems the DE stripped the protective mucus from his stomach, allowing the ibuprofen to directly damage his stomach lining and he ended up very sick with severe gastritis and needed to be taken by ambulance to hospital. He had to be put on morphine for the pain and he can't even sit up at the moment because it hurts too much.

I'm sorry I had to mention that here but I have no other way of communicating to those lovely people at LHC to please not take ibuprofen while taking DE. If someone can see this and mention it over there you might save a LHC member from some serious problems.


She wrote today that he is now discharged from the hospital but is still off work.

MissMandyElizab
February 24th, 2010, 09:04 PM
thanks i was going to take it after reading a thread a few days a go thanks my kidneys are bad it would not have nbeen a good thing i didn;t even think it would be bad the post said its wasnt

Spring
February 24th, 2010, 09:43 PM
I pulled this from the article linked in the OP's first post:



I started taking some powdered silica dioxide that I had on hand, and I did feel something achey going in my kidneys. I stopped taking that and started taking Permaguard DE and felt nothing of the kind. So I do think it matters what kind you are taking. The article was not specific to amorphous silica in the Permaguard DE.

I had achey joints taking the silica dioxide, so it's interesting to know there are different types of silica.

erinsbigsister
February 27th, 2010, 07:35 AM
I am a nursing student and started taking diatomaceous earth (from morethanalive.com) last week. Just wanted to comment on the Ibuprofen issue. I would be hesitant to claim that taking DE is the only factor in the gastritis. Ibuprofen has side effects on its own and I would want to know more about his lifestyle, i.e. does he consume 1-3 alcoholic beverages per day, etc.? Nausea and vomiting, stomatitis, abdominal pain are all adverse effects of ibuprofen on thier own.
:)

Fairlight63
February 27th, 2010, 09:18 AM
My son in law last yr. was rushed to the hospital with a bleeding ulcer from taking ibuprofen, he does NOT take DE. He did drink & smoke at the time of his epsoide, but doesn't any more. I think that there is a lot of different brands that can cause bleeding ulcers, also. I think that Aleeve can also if taken for a long time.

Bonkers57
February 27th, 2010, 09:47 AM
Thank you, Toadstool. I wouldn't dream of ingesting something used to kill bugs - not knowingly, anyway :eek:

Whether it's silica, caffeine or beans, too much of anything is bad for you - moderation in all things.


Sorry to rain on anyone's parade but I was considering taking this and spoke to a biochemist friend about it. She was horrified and emailed me this link:

http://www.vitalhealthzone.com/nutrition/minerals/silica.html#9

Note it says over 100mg a day is toxic. The tolerable upper limit is 29-30mg and that should come from food anyway. It is very rare to be deficient in it.
Please note it says toxic levels can cause irreversible kidney damage.
It also says you must consult a doctor if you are considering taking any silica supplement.
I know how tempting it is to take these things to speed up hair growth but please don't take this stuff, or at least do so in full awareness of the risks.
With love,
Toadstool xxxx

CuddlyChicken
February 27th, 2010, 10:50 AM
..............................

my2cats1
February 27th, 2010, 01:50 PM
It might be worth pointing out that the potential danger is not in taking silica or horsetail, but in taking it through the form of DE. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong!).

There are many silica and horsetail supplements out there, and many people take will no ill effects (assuming they follow directions and not take too much).

I've used KAL Super Silica Plus (vitaminshoppe.com) for years, and have no problems. I think (and again, coorect me if I'm wrong) that such a supplement is one way to benefit from silica/horsetail without the dangers that come from DE.

Firefox7275
April 24th, 2011, 04:50 PM
I'm bumping this because I am tired, all the maths argument confuzzled me. But what confuzzled me most is how much silica is in diatomaceous earth .... according to one eBay seller (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/250g-bag-DIATOMACEOUS-EARTH-PURE-FOOD-GRADE-PERU-/180516015169?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Vitamins_Suppleme nts&hash=item2a0797cc41) 95% which is substantially more than claimed on this thread?? :confused: And other sites say it is not actually earth just crushed shells of single celled organisms.

Just to be clear I am not planning on eating DE as I have done zero research: I am looking to emulate a face scrub that is no longer manufactured.

xxaimsxx
April 24th, 2011, 05:26 PM
I've heard so much about vitamins being bad. Ive just started to take bassetts multivitamins and i hope they are okay... Someone told me that apparently theres a rise in breast cancer because of people taking them which scared me. But then again apparently not enough vitamin d causes it and i dont get vitamin d so thats why i bought multivitamins.... too confusing. :o

justme
April 25th, 2011, 01:43 AM
I'm bumping this because I am tired, all the maths argument confuzzled me. But what confuzzled me most is how much silica is in diatomaceous earth .... according to one eBay seller (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/250g-bag-DIATOMACEOUS-EARTH-PURE-FOOD-GRADE-PERU-/180516015169?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Vitamins_Suppleme nts&hash=item2a0797cc41) 95% which is substantially more than claimed on this thread?? :confused: And other sites say it is not actually earth just crushed shells of single celled organisms.

Just to be clear I am not planning on eating DE as I have done zero research: I am looking to emulate a face scrub that is no longer manufactured.

The place I buy it from has their analysis (http://perma-guard.com/Tech_Data_COA_FSF.pdf) online for you to see. Other information is on their info page (http://www.perma-guard.com/DE_Information_Center.html).

TiffanieJean
September 21st, 2012, 01:44 PM
I'm glad that I just read this. Thanks for posting the link too.