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Crown of Glory
December 24th, 2009, 11:06 PM
OK, so I'm very new around here. But I've been reading your threads and greatly enjoying them! Y'all are so knowledgeable, and it's through thinking of y'all that I haven't seriously thought of cutting my hair before. But now...
Here's my dilemma: I have hair that is now to my waist, and this is the longest it's ever been. It's not real thick, but it's greatest quality and curse is the fineness of it's strands. Almost everyone who touches my hair (including the strangers who gasp "your hair is so pretty!" and fondle it) comment on how soft it is. What they don't know, is that nothing will stay in it! All clips, claws, combs and other hair toys slide out like greased lighting. Even a simple braid with one rubber band at the bottom falls out at the top and makes me look like some gal who's been through the wringer. :p Only a select few things stay in my hair, usually ones with silicone on the inside. Rolls slip pretty bad, but sometimes if I'm doing something fairly still and have a million pins in it and have time to reach back and push the pins that also slip back in, I can do one. :D Even a ponytail doesn't get my hair all out of the way because it's so long. It tangles and when around synthetics spreads like a rampant octopus with the static. I'm really getting tired of it, though I love the look of long hair.

So! Here's my question: Do y'all know of any hair-styles that might work with my hair and that are quick and easy? Or should I just cut it and be done? :confused:

SunshineHair
December 24th, 2009, 11:12 PM
I wish I could offer advice, but I have never had that problem before. Have you really pictured yourself w/ shorter hair and thorught about if you would enjoy your hair and life that way?

Are you able to upload a pic, I am curious to see what your hair looks like?

Gumball
December 24th, 2009, 11:17 PM
Have you ever tried a light coating of something like aloe vera gel? Sometimes super slippery hair just needs a little something to create enough friction/traction that things don't slip and slide out.

That's also why, in some cases for getting styled for a formal event or in general, it can be handy to have unwashed hair because it can comply a little bit more. Freshly washed hair (if you're a daily washer) I believe has an even greater likeliness to be slippery if it's typically slippery anyway.

Crown of Glory
December 24th, 2009, 11:28 PM
Have you really pictured yourself w/ shorter hair and thorught about if you would enjoy your hair and life that way?

Are you able to upload a pic, I am curious to see what your hair looks like?

Well, I have had my hair shorter recently enough that I can still picture it, and I think I'd be OK with it. :/ But I'm not sure... I'd only cut it to about my shoulder blades. As for a picture, I don't think I have one. I seldom get pictures of myself taken, since I take most of them if they're not just snapshots. =D But I'll see if I can coerce someone to take a pic tomorrow while the Christmas pictures are being taken. XD Merry Christmas by the way!



Have you ever tried a light coating of something like aloe vera gel?

No! I never have! That's a great idea! And the thing with not washing my hair the day of a big event, is that my scalp pumps out oil like crazy. Though I'll still be clean, even in the winter my hair will look slick with the excess oil if I don't wash it often. :( But I could still try that. Thanks for the advice!

SunshineHair
December 25th, 2009, 12:00 AM
You could go by the 2 week rule people here have! They say if you still want to cut your hair at the end of 2 weeks, go for it!

I hope you can get some pictures!!!

:)

misstwist
December 25th, 2009, 12:00 AM
I would look for some shea nut butter and/or experiment with a castor oil and aloe vera gel mix. I think you want something that will make your hair adhere to itself, but not glue it together like hairspray. In my experience, shea nut butter and castor oil both do that.

Shea nut butter is very emollient, but it is also very tacky. When I want to do something to my hair that one might ordinarily use a wax or a pomade for with conventional products I use the shea nut butter. It helps the hairs I'm manipulating to stay together and work as a unified mass.

I've used castor oil mixed with aloe vera gel to help my waves clump into curls. Castor oil is a heavy oil. I don't mean heavy like you look like an oil slick, I mean heavy in that it is viscous and doesn't spread well. That's why I use it with the aloe vera gel. Mix the oil and the gel and you will get a less viscous product that can be put into the hair easier.

Coconut oil also promotes clumping for me, but not to the extent of the other two.

Truthfully, I would want to have all four products around. Depending on where you are it will likely be easiest to find castor oil and aloe vera gel. Castor oil is usually sold the the pharmacy area of a drug store or big box store. It's used as a laxative. Aloe vera gel is most likely found near the lotions. You want something without alcohol or dye in it.

If you have a Wal-Mart nearby you can get both products there, usually. This (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=10314799), not this (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=10804532) or this (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=11027871). Castor oil (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=12018744).

You will likely see castor oil pomades or hair and scalp oil preparations or conditioners in the hair care aisle. Unless you want mineral oil in your hair, stay away from those and just buy the laxative castor oil. There shouldn't be anything else in it.

This (http://www.alaffia.com/shea-butters) is the shea butter I buy. I get it at my local health food store.

This (http://spectrumorganics.com/?id=87#j48) is the coconut oil I buy. I get it at my grocery store in the health food area or at the health food store.


One last thing. If you are using products with silicones in them, kick them to the curb for a little bit and see if your hair will be less slippery. Clarify with a sulfate shampoo to get rid of build up and then use a 'cone free product line. Lots of people here like the Sauve Naturals line or the VO5 Herbal Escapes line.

One last, last thing. I would use the castor oil and aloe vera gel on the length of the hair for braiding and the shea butter if you need something closer to the scalp.

Hope this helps!

Kuchen
December 25th, 2009, 01:07 AM
Have you tried Amish pins?

There are a few threads here about slippery, fine hair which won't hold hair toys. They might take a bit of rooting out of the archives but could be useful! I wish I could help more, but you seem to have achieved exactly what a lot of us want for our hair – waist-length and soft!

Finoriel
December 25th, 2009, 02:07 AM
My hair isnīt fine, but I had similar issues when it was your length.
What helped me was:
- No silicone containing products and avoid producs claiming to make the hair slick or smooth. When your hair is slick and smooth by itīs nature you just donīt need them :wink:.
- No conditioner, acidic rinse instead. Though I have medium hair, not sure if this would work for fine hair.
- Grow longer hair. The longer it gets the better it stays up.
- wash less, a little greasy isnīt that noticeable for others as we imagine.
- Braid snug or start with a dutch braided part, then it wonīt sag down as much as regular english braids.
- Try braided buns and pin them up with u-shaped pins / amish pins.
If you decide to cut your hair, make sure you choose a cut/length youīre comfortable to leave your hair down with all the time. When you hate hair in your face that would mean at least bangs and / or something really short. Make sure you really want that before doing something drastic. :flower:
Good luck with deciding :).

Addy
December 25th, 2009, 07:11 AM
Have you tried braids and updos with damp or wet hair? Doing that has made my hair really stay but I don't have slippage issues on dry hair.

Good Luck and try different things before you cut! It takes a looooong time to grow and only a few minutes to cut.

linda g
December 25th, 2009, 08:37 AM
I'll second trying it on damp hair.

My hair isn't as long as yours, but I have lots of trouble with dry, very clean hair. Second day is a a little easier, but I find if I spritz my hair before trying to updo it, I do a little better.

Crown of Glory
December 25th, 2009, 12:45 PM
Merry Christmas y'all!


You could go by the 2 week rule people here have! They say if you still want to cut your hair at the end of 2 weeks, go for it!

Oh that's a great rule! I like that!


I would look for some shea nut butter and/or experiment with a castor oil and aloe vera gel mix. I think you want something that will make your hair adhere to itself, but not glue it together like hairspray. In my experience, shea nut butter and castor oil both do that.

Wow! I love that idea!!! I've never thought of a natural alternative to those hair gels/putty. See I never use them, but I think that's because my Mom throughly dislikes all the chemicals in them. But how many times have I sighed for them with a handful of hair that won't stay held up in my hand? XD


Have you tried Amish pins?

No! I've never heard of them until now! lol But I just googled them and now I want them. XD


My hair isnīt fine, but I had similar issues when it was your length.
What helped me was:
- No silicone containing products and avoid producs claiming to make the hair slick or smooth. When your hair is slick and smooth by itīs nature you just donīt need them :wink:.
- No conditioner, acidic rinse instead. Though I have medium hair, not sure if this would work for fine hair.
- Grow longer hair. The longer it gets the better it stays up.
- wash less, a little greasy isnīt that noticeable for others as we imagine.
- Braid snug or start with a dutch braided part, then it wonīt sag down as much as regular english braids.
- Try braided buns and pin them up with u-shaped pins / amish pins.

What does silicone do? I only have one or two toys with the "no-slip grip" on them, and that appears to be silicone. But I haven't used them in ages. They just haven't turned up while we're unpacking after our very recent move.
And the only hair care I give my hair is washing it. I used to use the conditioner my Mom uses, but I found that it made my hair oily even faster, so I quit. :) But what is an acidic rinse? I'm using a very strong shampoo right now, my Mom having bought it during the recent work we were doing which was filthy work. Man, it was dirty work. So she got a strong shampoo that was so strong, I could feel it strip the oils from my hair that had a build-up of filth and oil. I thought, "Oh gee, I better not use this when I don't have to any more", but I've been using it without terribly dirty hair for a month now with the only effect being that I can shower less, with only one shampoo a shower, and my hair is not as slippery. Don't get me wrong, this shampoo is sold for daily use, so I'm not over-using it. But it's working for my hair wonderfully! However, I've never heard of an acidic rinse, and with the water that's heavy on the calcium here at the new house, it might also help with that.

Oh! And I just tried the dutch braid idea. I've never been able to do one before, operator error being the only reason, but I just got it to work for the first time. And I love it!!! It's so firm and pretty, and simple! I just did the lowest part of my hair, crossing over only a few times and then finishing the rest of it. Thank you so much for your advice!!! :D


Have you tried braids and updos with damp or wet hair?

I have, and it helps a lot! I guess I need to get a spritzer so I can do that more often.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK! So I talked a sister into taking a picture of my hair.

http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/xx202/Lady_Courage/th_CIMG0815.jpg (http://s756.photobucket.com/albums/xx202/Lady_Courage/?action=view&current=CIMG0815.jpg)
^ ^ Click for larger image.

I guess what strangers like about it is it's length, 'cause it isn't exactly a pretty color or anything. *shrug* Anyway, thank y'all so much for you replies! You've really, really helped me out! Now I think I'm gonna go on a two week test period. I'll work with my hair and try new things, and at the end I'll see if I'm ready to decide weather to cut it or not. :D

nowxisxforever
December 25th, 2009, 12:57 PM
My hair isnīt fine, but I had similar issues when it was your length.
What helped me was:
- No silicone containing products and avoid producs claiming to make the hair slick or smooth. When your hair is slick and smooth by itīs nature you just donīt need them :wink:.
- No conditioner, acidic rinse instead. Though I have medium hair, not sure if this would work for fine hair.
- Grow longer hair. The longer it gets the better it stays up.
- wash less, a little greasy isnīt that noticeable for others as we imagine.
- Braid snug or start with a dutch braided part, then it wonīt sag down as much as regular english braids.
- Try braided buns and pin them up with u-shaped pins / amish pins.
If you decide to cut your hair, make sure you choose a cut/length youīre comfortable to leave your hair down with all the time. When you hate hair in your face that would mean at least bangs and / or something really short. Make sure you really want that before doing something drastic. :flower:
Good luck with deciding :).

I was going to comment with a few of these too, but you beat me to them! Yay!

nowxisxforever
December 25th, 2009, 01:01 PM
What does silicone do? I only have one or two toys with the "no-slip grip" on them, and that appears to be silicone. But I haven't used them in ages. They just haven't turned up while we're unpacking after our very recent move.
And the only hair care I give my hair is washing it. I used to use the conditioner my Mom uses, but I found that it made my hair oily even faster, so I quit. :) But what is an acidic rinse? I'm using a very strong shampoo right now, my Mom having bought it during the recent work we were doing which was filthy work. Man, it was dirty work. So she got a strong shampoo that was so strong, I could feel it strip the oils from my hair that had a build-up of filth and oil. I thought, "Oh gee, I better not use this when I don't have to any more", but I've been using it without terribly dirty hair for a month now with the only effect being that I can shower less, with only one shampoo a shower, and my hair is not as slippery. Don't get me wrong, this shampoo is sold for daily use, so I'm not over-using it. But it's working for my hair wonderfully! However, I've never heard of an acidic rinse, and with the water that's heavy on the calcium here at the new house, it might also help with that.

Silicones assist with adding slip -- which is what your hair has 'too much' of. Silicones will coat the hair shaft, making the hair smoother and less prone to tangles, but also will make it so it's hellish to try to keep it up in an updo, at least with my experience. (I had to stop conditioning my hair again because conditioner just makes it so slippery without any noticeable improvement in condition!)

So, wash your hair with whatever shampoo you enjoy (but hopefully which doesn't have anything ending in -cone or -none in it), but leave out the conditioner. For an acidic rinse, I take a squirt or two of lemon juice OR a splash of vinegar in about 2 cups of water and dump that over my hair from the ears down. It will make the cuticle on your hair lie down, but will not make it as smooth as coney conditioner does. Also avoid using any commercial leave-ins since they're mostly chock-full of cones!

RocketDog
December 25th, 2009, 01:08 PM
My hair is not slippery, but I still find that getting updos to stick works best on damp hair - I keep a small spritzing bottle of water (with a few drops of oil for scent) at the vanity to use when I'm doing my hair.

If you still want to cut your hair, try playing with an online makeover site before going in to the salon so you can find a style that flatters you, and make sure the stylist works with your hair texture so you can have something that's easy to style on a day-to-day basis!

Amraann
December 25th, 2009, 01:28 PM
My hair slips a lot too.

I just re-do it through out the day.

Also my hair use to get oily very quickly but since I cut back on washing it no longer does that.
I think over washing can cause your hair to become oily faster because it is trying to reproduce the natural oils that have been overly stripped out.

angelthadiva
December 26th, 2009, 12:45 AM
You could go by the 2 week rule people here have! They say if you still want to cut your hair at the end of 2 weeks, go for it!

I hope you can get some pictures!!!

:)


Someone has been very busy this last month :D ETA: And has been learning a lot along the way! ;)

spidermom
December 26th, 2009, 11:27 AM
I have slippy-slidey hair, too. The buns that work best for me are the nautilus and the double-loop nautilus. Look through the articles. I have one called "the bun that stays", which is the double-loop nautilus bun. Those buns don't rely as much on hair pins or sticks to hold them, the way they're constructed provides the hold, and the stick or fork locks it in.

flutterbudget
December 26th, 2009, 12:10 PM
I have really fine hair too. I think I'm different from a lot of the folks here in that I love the soft slippery result I get with silicones in my conditioners. But I can still get annoyed when it falls out of a style. My solution is to put it up damp (or even pretty wet right after a wash). My buns (what I think you mean by "roll"?) will stay up all day without trouble.

ETA: I also have some hair pins that my hair doesn't spit out as much as most others. I can't find a link to them online anywhere right now (I will keep looking), but they are Conair brand, I believe they are just called Up-Do pins. They are U-shaped kind of like amish pins but they have a sort of rubberized coating that makes them grippy.

Locksmith
December 26th, 2009, 06:33 PM
I have a similar issue, to a lesser extent - my hair is just super-slippery, and things just sliiiiiide out of it. It's maddening. For me, I've found that it got better as my layers grew out, so the strands were trapped inside (eg) a braid for longer and had less opportunity to escape. The other things that work for me are a) very thin metal hairsticks, with the updo done 'tightly' b) hairsticks with a knob on top. The knob prevents the hairstick from sliding through the updo; I find some updos just will not hold my hair, but others are surprisingly secure - much more so than anything I ever achieved with pins.

Good luck!

GoddesJourney
December 26th, 2009, 09:28 PM
OK! So I talked a sister into taking a picture of my hair.

http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/xx202/Lady_Courage/th_CIMG0815.jpg (http://s756.photobucket.com/albums/xx202/Lady_Courage/?action=view&current=CIMG0815.jpg)
^ ^ Click for larger image.

I guess what strangers like about it is it's length, 'cause it isn't exactly a pretty color or anything. *shrug* Anyway, thank y'all so much for you replies! You've really, really helped me out! Now I think I'm gonna go on a two week test period. I'll work with my hair and try new things, and at the end I'll see if I'm ready to decide weather to cut it or not. :D

On the contrary, your hair is actually quite nice and I would say it's a pretty color.

Liluri
December 27th, 2009, 03:20 AM
I have fine hair that is a bit slippery but not as much as yours sounds. My suggestion is to henna or cassia to improve the thickness of your hair, this has helped my fine hair a lot, I'd do a search on them to find out about them if you don't already know about them. I believe that henna has helped with the slippery-ness of my hair as well.

Crown of Glory
December 27th, 2009, 12:09 PM
Aha nowxisxforever, I get it! Thank you for explaining about silicone to me! That makes sense. And I'm gonna try your recipe for the rinse next time I shower too! Thank you ever so much!


I have slippy-slidey hair, too. The buns that work best for me are the nautilus and the double-loop nautilus.

I seem to remember seeing those... I'll go hunt them up soon! Thank you!



My solution is to put it up damp (or even pretty wet right after a wash). My buns (what I think you mean by "roll"?) will stay up all day without trouble.

ETA: I also have some hair pins that my hair doesn't spit out as much as most others. I can't find a link to them online anywhere right now (I will keep looking), but they are Conair brand, I believe they are just called Up-Do pins. They are U-shaped kind of like amish pins but they have a sort of rubberized coating that makes them grippy.

I meant like a french roll that doesn't stay, but now that you mention it, buns don't stay well for me either. Hmm... But I think the bun stayed better when it was wet. The reason I never do them anymore is because the pins always back out on me. Thank you ever so much for telling me about those pins you use!! Yay! I'm gonna go look for them as soon as possible!



I have a similar issue, to a lesser extent - my hair is just super-slippery, and things just sliiiiiide out of it. It's maddening. For me, I've found that it got better as my layers grew out, so the strands were trapped inside (eg) a braid for longer and had less opportunity to escape. The other things that work for me are a) very thin metal hairsticks, with the updo done 'tightly' b) hairsticks with a knob on top. The knob prevents the hairstick from sliding through the updo; I find some updos just will not hold my hair, but others are surprisingly secure - much more so than anything I ever achieved with pins.

Good luck!

Oh thank you! Those are great tips! lol I'm gonna have to keep this thread for my reference. :D


On the contrary, your hair is actually quite nice and I would say it's a pretty color.

Oh, why, thank you!


My suggestion is to henna or cassia to improve the thickness of your hair, this has helped my fine hair a lot, I'd do a search on them to find out about them if you don't already know about them.

No, I don't know about them! But it sounds very interesting, thank you!

flutterbudget
December 27th, 2009, 03:25 PM
These (http://mp.hairboutique.com/product.asp?ProdID=124907&CtgID=) are the pins I have. They are out of stock on that website, but I found mine at my local K-mart and they still had them there just the other day. Hope that helps! :)

Crown of Glory
December 28th, 2009, 02:22 PM
These (http://mp.hairboutique.com/product.asp?ProdID=124907&CtgID=) are the pins I have. They are out of stock on that website, but I found mine at my local K-mart and they still had them there just the other day. Hope that helps! :)

Oh THANK YOU!!! Yay! I'm gonna order them as soon as possible! *does happy dance*

I went looking for them too, and found these (http://mp.hairboutique.com/Scunci-No-Slip-Grip-No-Damage-Bobby-Pins-Tort,-Silver,-Black/P/117937). Has anyone else used them? They look pretty good, and I know I like Scunci stuff.

flutterbudget
December 28th, 2009, 04:08 PM
Oh THANK YOU!!! Yay! I'm gonna order them as soon as possible! *does happy dance*

I went looking for them too, and found these (http://mp.hairboutique.com/Scunci-No-Slip-Grip-No-Damage-Bobby-Pins-Tort,-Silver,-Black/P/117937). Has anyone else used them? They look pretty good, and I know I like Scunci stuff.

You're very welcome!
I haven't used the ones that you linked. But I have had some success with these (http://www.sallybeauty.com/Magic-Grip-Hairpins/GOODHR1,default,pd.html), and I know a lot of ladies here seem to like them too.

Crown of Glory
December 28th, 2009, 06:32 PM
But I have had some success with these (http://www.sallybeauty.com/Magic-Grip-Hairpins/GOODHR1,default,pd.html), and I know a lot of ladies here seem to like them too.


Hmm... Look interesting! I think I've seen those in Walmart. I'll look next time, thanks!!