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marzipanthecat
December 14th, 2009, 12:14 PM
This turned up on the BBC today:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/north_yorkshire/8411894.stm

I know redheads aren't a racial group, but this is the nearest thing to being "acceptable" racism in the UK. I am glad this lady kicked up a fuss.

I just can't think why it is OK to be so nasty about people with red or ginger hair.

(And I speak as someone who is quite gingery!)

halo_tightens
December 14th, 2009, 12:23 PM
That brings to mind the old "Ginger Kids" South Park episode (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_Kids). I have to say that I'm torn on the issue! I can't make up my mind whether I find it amusing or extremely insulting. I guess it depends (for me) on how a person means it. It's just hard for me to tell sometimes how much is "joke" and how much is really meant or believed.

I'm a redhead by choice, with the corresponding pale skin and a few freckles, so I'm a "ginger kid" myself. I'm not offended by that card personally, or by the South Park episode, but I can totally understand why some people would be. If I were made fun of for some other physical trait, like acne or extra weight, I would be very hurt.

rogue_psyche
December 14th, 2009, 12:24 PM
I think the gingism in the UK is a little ironic since I know several men and women in the States who just love red hair. Especially since the Harry Potter books came out it seemed a lot of people want to be able to date a "Weasley."

spidermom
December 14th, 2009, 12:25 PM
I find it very weird to refer to red as "ginger" The ginger root is kind of brown and the spice is off-white. Where does the red come in?

SHELIAANN1969
December 14th, 2009, 12:38 PM
I find it very weird to refer to red as "ginger" The ginger root is kind of brown and the spice is off-white. Where does the red come in?


Maybe because redheads have a *bite*? and are spicy? ;)

florenonite
December 14th, 2009, 12:49 PM
DBF has a ginger beard and reddish-brown hair, and if I made a joke like that to him we'd both find it funny, because I would be teasing him in a good-natured manner. He knows I "secretly" envy his hair/beard colour so I wouldn't mean anything personal by it.

However, I don't think that makes it acceptable to sell cards like this. While some ginger teasing is good-natured (DBF's dad is ginger and his mum joked that if any of her kids turned out ginger she'd dye their hair :p), some of it is quite menacing and should not be tolerated. This card, being sold where teenagers (and others), who tend to be prone to ostracising others, can see it, encourages the idea that it's ok to make fun of ginger people, whether they like it or not, and that's not ok.

I'm of the opinion that teasing's ok as long as the person being teased thinks it's funny, but when you have a card visible to anyone teasing any segment of the population it's not ok, because not everyone whom it targets will find it funny. And this is when teasing becomes bullying or worse.

spidermom: according to the OED, "ginger" as an adjective can mean "A light sandy colour, resembling that of ginger" and therefore by extension "a red-haired or sandy-haired person".

rach
December 14th, 2009, 12:57 PM
It's something i've never understood. To have that colouration i think is such a beautiful colour to have naturally , i've always been envious . Maybe it's from people being jealous deep down..... absolutely no need for it but that could be said on so many subjects.........

Crysta
December 14th, 2009, 01:06 PM
I find red heads very sexyfull. at the least.

I'm glad she did kick up a fuss, that kindof thing can offend alot of people, and it is derogatory. Of course it's not ment in an offencive way, but the joke is based on there being something 'wrong' with red heads... which shouldn't be acceptable.

redwoman
December 14th, 2009, 01:12 PM
I take offense at that card. As if there is something wrong with red hair. Give me a break. No one would tolerate a "even black ones" card, or chinese, or, or...you get the picture. Call me petty, but yeah, this bugs me.

Crysta
December 14th, 2009, 01:16 PM
Exactly redwoman
I'm in total agreement, anykindof discrimination is plain wrong.

amaiaisabella
December 14th, 2009, 01:23 PM
Huh, and I thought that it was going to be some kind of card using a redhead in place of Rudolph, lighting Santa's way? That would have been cute, at least :) This, not so much.

enfys
December 14th, 2009, 01:42 PM
Ginger bullying is a big problem. This happened in my class in high school when we did a life lessons type class with our form tutor.

Teacher: "(only black girl in class) Have you ever been bullied?"
Girl: "No"
Teacher: "(only headscarf wearing Muslim in the school) Have you ever been bullied?"
Girl: "No"
Teacher: "Has anyone here been bullied?"
*ever ginger kid raises their hand, and only the ginger kids*

Yerah, that's how it is here. Both my best friends in school were ginger, and the more vibrant coloured of the two had eggs thrown at her, gum put on her seat and in her hair, names called at her, kids pulling at her hair, all sorts.

This is sick. It was done by a British company, they ought to know better.

ravenreed
December 14th, 2009, 01:51 PM
My youngest son is a ginger. He despairs of ever having a girlfriend because of that and his geekiness. I keep trying to tell him that the women who love red hair really, really love red hair.

missjessiecakes
December 14th, 2009, 01:52 PM
I think the gingism in the UK is a little ironic since I know several men and women in the States who just love red hair. Especially since the Harry Potter books came out it seemed a lot of people want to be able to date a "Weasley." Hello there. I love the Weasley's. I adore red hair on my boyfriends. My favorite is Ron :o

I think its insulting and it is a real problem in schools because of that dang south park episode.

BranwenWolf
December 14th, 2009, 01:58 PM
I love red hair. I went with it for a while and honestly thought I got more respect than when I am a blonde. (natural color)

Blonde jokes are big here and I hate it. I do agree that it's pretty close to racism. I read somewhere that long blonde hair is dangerous in some places and "the last word in sexual temptation for men". WTH??? This also insults men too: like they have no self-control whatsoever.

Basically, I hate seeing any reference to hair color with regards to temperment/intelligence. It's cruel and stupid.

ArienEllariel
December 14th, 2009, 02:07 PM
My youngest son is a ginger. He despairs of ever having a girlfriend because of that and his geekiness. I keep trying to tell him that the women who love red hair really, really love red hair.

I think guys with red hair are cute. :) Aw that's sad; it's kind of like my sister actually. She is convinced that she isn't pretty and that because she has acne it makes her ugly (which in my opinion is silly; acne is a part of life). I keep telling her how beautiful she is, but she keeps comparing herself to other girls and society's version of beauty. It's so silly and I hope one day she will realize that her uniqueness is what makes her beautiful.

halo_tightens
December 14th, 2009, 02:19 PM
I think guys with red hair are cute. :) Aw that's sad; it's kind of like my sister actually. She is convinced that she isn't pretty and that because she has acne it makes her ugly (which in my opinion is silly; acne is a part of life). I keep telling her how beautiful she is, but she keeps comparing herself to other girls and society's version of beauty. It's so silly and I hope one day she will realize that her uniqueness is what makes her beautiful.

It's an easy trap to get caught in. I spent my teenage years, too, convinced that I would never find a man who'd give me a chance because I was so ugly. I was very well indoctrinated, I guess... But I've never been "conventionally" pretty, and it really dominated my life for a long time.

Dpending on where we live, it seems that the hot buttons are different. For me, for example, having red hair felt like a plus! It was because I was a little heavy and too "flat" that I felt so ugly. I'm thinking that every area has its own big no-no's when it comes to societally-approved appearances. In my high school, some of the most popular kids there had red hair! Being fat, flat-chested, a "late bloomer" or acne-prone were the things that would cause one to be rejected. In the school I attended before that, it wasn't so bad to be overweight, and some of the most popular kids there were on the heavier side. It was being poor there that would bring on the abuse. The rules just seem to be different in each place one might go... even though these kinds of "rules" should never exist at all.

OhioLisa
December 14th, 2009, 02:42 PM
I think being "absolutely disgusted" is a bit over the top. It's a joke. If you don't get it, or don't like it, don't buy it. Same reason I don't buy anything depicting blondes as stupid or "easy". Ahem. Do I find that funny at all? Not at all. Am I offended by them? Not really. They're jokes, whatever poor taste they might be in. I make my opinion known by not buying things like that. But honestly, I don't think it's anything worth getting bent out of shape over. I think people sometimes look for something to blown the horn on.

Unofficial_Rose
December 14th, 2009, 02:46 PM
I find red heads very sexyfull. at the least.

.

Hee! I love that term. It says what you mean but is a bit ironic so not naff. *borrows new word* :lol:

Gingerism is just another excuse for people to be vile to others. As if they needed another 'reason'. Grr! I hate bullies. :mad:

Besides - Josh Homme - rawr!

Nae
December 14th, 2009, 02:48 PM
I guess I just don't get what was supposed to be funny about it in the first place. Was it supposed to be a play on ginger cookies or something? I am all confused. :ponder:

enfys
December 14th, 2009, 02:54 PM
I think being "absolutely disgusted" is a bit over the top. It's a joke. If you don't get it, or don't like it, don't buy it. Same reason I don't buy anything depicting blondes as stupid or "easy". Ahem. Do I find that funny at all? Not at all. Am I offended by them? Not really. They're jokes, whatever poor taste they might be in. I make my opinion known by not buying things like that. But honestly, I don't think it's anything worth getting bent out of shape over. I think people sometimes look for something to blown the horn on.

The only reason I am so angry is because I've seen people get physically attacked and not want to come to school for bullying based on being ginger. It isn't a problem in other countries like it is in the UK as far as I know. Catherine Tate, a comedien, has a running sketch about anti-gingers that might give you an idea of what it's like.

Replace "ginger" with "black". It's the same joke. They decided to stick it in a supermarket when the kind of kids who'll crack someone's rib because because they're ginger (a different friend of mine) hang out in gangs.

Gypsy
December 14th, 2009, 02:56 PM
Blonde jokes are big here and I hate it.

That's what I was thinking, all the blonde jokes for DECADES here are so so raunchy and mean and have been happening for so long that now people don't even notice them- except the blondes.
But as a biracial person I can tell y'all, the hair color jokes aren't near as mean as the racial jokes.
Personally, I have always been envious of the redheads (I am another one who doesn't understand the whole "ginger" term) and have always wanted to dye my hair a specific red shade but the pink in my skin RUINS the effect. Booo!
I agree that it's an "across the pond" situation because I have never met anyone who didn't think red headed women, at least, were the holy grail sexually and visually- in general.
They are head turning, the personalities are legendary and while it may not be true to every redhead, the fact that they are reputed to be like that shows how desirable they are here.

Heidi_234
December 14th, 2009, 03:00 PM
Nobody ever bullied redheads when I was a kid, I wasn't a redhead until after highschool, so this probably doesn't "hit home" for me - the card made me smirk. It's the type of 'wrongish' humor I like to recycle with my friends, and I'd probably buy that card for x-mas if one of them was a redhead, but I can definitely understand that this is not acceptable joke for a card for the general society out there.

spidermom
December 14th, 2009, 03:16 PM
spidermom: according to the OED, "ginger" as an adjective can mean "A light sandy colour, resembling that of ginger" and therefore by extension "a red-haired or sandy-haired person".

With that definition, it still doesn't fit. A light sandy color isn't red, it's more of a beige-brown to my eye, and there's nothing red either about the fresh ginger root or the ground spice. Ack! I just don't get it.

But I once bought a bottle of red nail polish with gold sparkles in it, and the name on the bottle was "ginger". Say what?

Anyway, making fun of anybody for any reason is NOT o.k. (other than acting the clown and being part of the fun). I was picked on a lot in school because I was strange - a cootie, queer, ugly, wore glasses. It was a nightmare! So down with that Christmas card!

Gypsy
December 14th, 2009, 03:22 PM
With that definition, it still doesn't fit. A light sandy color isn't red, it's more of a beige-brown to my eye, and there's nothing red either about the fresh ginger root or the ground spice. Ack! I just don't get it.

But I once bought a bottle of red nail polish with gold sparkles in it, and the name on the bottle was "ginger". Say what?

Anyway, making fun of anybody for any reason is NOT o.k. (other than acting the clown and being part of the fun). I was picked on a lot in school because I was strange - a cootie, queer, ugly, wore glasses. It was a nightmare!
Yeah. I would put blondes or dark blondes in the sandy range and usually DO say "the girl with the sandy blonde hair", etc....
Um. I love the nail polish. I have something similar but it's called "Get Reddy" by Revlon. The gold relects only enough to brighten the red but not look glittery.
Which I love too. Have one that does that, as well, lol!
Anyway........

Cherry_Sprinkle
December 14th, 2009, 03:34 PM
I think it's in poor taste at any rate.. UK or any where else.

Xandergrammy
December 14th, 2009, 03:35 PM
I agree with spidermom. I was picked on for a laundry list of reasons and it was not fun. I don't think making fun of anyone is at all funny.

Anje
December 14th, 2009, 03:36 PM
I've got to say, there are times when I'm glad to be on this side of the pond, where red hair is notable and striking, not something to be picked on for.

To me, though, "ginger" is a subset of red -- it's that light reddish color with some gold to it. Think the outer color of a ginger root, not the light colored interior. They're more or less blond with moderate red pigment. (I'd put marzipanthecat's hair in this category.) There are also the people who have blond on the eumelanin side, with LOTS of red pigment who are red-orange to bright red. And there are auburns like me with at least a bit of brown mixed in with our red pigment, so it's a bit darker.

florenonite
December 14th, 2009, 03:45 PM
I love red hair. I went with it for a while and honestly thought I got more respect than when I am a blonde. (natural color)

Blonde jokes are big here and I hate it. I do agree that it's pretty close to racism. I read somewhere that long blonde hair is dangerous in some places and "the last word in sexual temptation for men". WTH??? This also insults men too: like they have no self-control whatsoever.

Basically, I hate seeing any reference to hair color with regards to temperment/intelligence. It's cruel and stupid.

QFT

The thing with Gingerism in the UK is that it's suspected to have deep roots in very real racism. Anglo-Saxons, as a general rule, don't have red hair. Irish and Scots folk often do (and possibly Welsh? They're Celtic, too). The Anglo-Saxons, from the time they entered England until about eighty years ago (and some to this day), thought they were superior to the Celts, in temperament and otherwise.


I guess I just don't get what was supposed to be funny about it in the first place. Was it supposed to be a play on ginger cookies or something? I am all confused. :ponder:

Redheads are generally referred to as being "ginger" in Britain.


With that definition, it still doesn't fit. A light sandy color isn't red, it's more of a beige-brown to my eye, and there's nothing red either about the fresh ginger root or the ground spice. Ack! I just don't get it.

I suppose not. My best guess is that sandy hair has reddish tones (at least sand round here seems a bit reddish if you squint at it funny :lol:) and by some long train of tangents the term "ginger" became the term for red hair. A lot of natural redheads, at least the ones round here, have got really fair hair, so that I could see as being described as sandy. This guy (http://thumbs2.modthesims.info/img/1/4/4/1/1/0/MTS2_kaneonapua_446470_charles_kennedy_ginger.jpg) , for instance, I could see as being described as sandy-haired more than red-haired, and so I suppose over time the "ginger" description for people with hair like this eventually grew to cover all red hair :shrug: FWIW I don't think "redhead" makes much sense in half the cases because the people in question have hair of a more coppery-orangey tone than red ;)

Gypsy
December 14th, 2009, 04:11 PM
QFT

FWIW I don't think "redhead" makes much sense in half the cases because the people in question have hair of a more coppery-orangey tone than red ;)

Me too.
When I was a little, a family moved in down the street from us and I told my dad one of the boys had orange hair. He told me to say "red hair" and it didn't make sense to me because it wasn't red- according to Crayola, the Authority of All Colors, to my elementary school mind.

kmangus
December 14th, 2009, 04:59 PM
I sense envy...redheads are hot! :)

Gingevere
December 14th, 2009, 05:05 PM
It doesn't sound that offensive to me, but even so. I'll repeat the point that others have already made: if 'ginger' was replaced with 'fat' or something related to race/ethnicity/nationality, it wouldn't even be placed on the shelves to begin with. I'm still not sure why gingerism persists. The whole Anglo-Saxon supremacy thing sounds like a logical explanation for its origin, but why is it still a problem today?

It seems to be mostly a UK thing, although there have been recent incidents revolving around Kick a Ginger Day in the US and Canada. I've heard that red is the top-selling color of hair dye in the US as well as the most requested in salons, although I'm not sure that's true. Personally, I never experienced any sort of mistreatment as a result of having red hair. Not even gentle teasing. The worst comment I recieved was, "You're the only pretty redhead I've ever met." I suppose it was a compliment to me, but in an odd, twisted sort of way. Didn't make me feel happy inside. :rolleyes:

Dvips
December 14th, 2009, 05:14 PM
The thing with Gingerism in the UK is that it's suspected to have deep roots in very real racism. Anglo-Saxons, as a general rule, don't have red hair. Irish and Scots folk often do (and possibly Welsh? They're Celtic, too). The Anglo-Saxons, from the time they entered England until about eighty years ago (and some to this day), thought they were superior to the Celts, in temperament and otherwise. This is what non-UKers need to remember; because of its history, this is a bigotry issue.

ericthegreat
December 14th, 2009, 05:48 PM
As you all know I added a bright red to my highlights just 4 days ago. After seeing this disgusting holiday card, I'm glad that I live over on this side of the Atlantic Ocean. Discrimination or bigotry of any kind is despicable period. I agree with the other posters here, if there was a holiday card making fun of someone's skin color or whatever they happen to be, there would be an immediate public boycott of such a card.

For me at least over these past 4 days, everyone here on LHC and in my real life have all raved about how stunning bright red looks on me. I agree, I personally also find red hair extremely sexy. Enfys and Florenonite have both informed us about the history of ginger discrimination in the UK, so thank you both for your input. Hopefully, the negative publicity surrounding this card will be its own undoing and more logical minded people will boycott this card.

Olivia23
December 14th, 2009, 08:54 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/11/22/california.redhead.attack.facebook/index.html
this link shows that a red-headed boy got beat up in school by several classmates because of South Parks episode of kick a ginger day.

BranwenWolf
December 14th, 2009, 09:55 PM
This is what non-UKers need to remember; because of its history, this is a bigotry issue.

This is rather intersting- I have never heard of that before.
Supposedly Scotland has one of the highest concentrations of redheads. I am carrying redhead genes and have Scottish blood- my aunt, my paternal grandpa and a couple cousins are redheads. I was born a redhead.

I notice red hair from pretty far away and smile to myself. There's a couple of redheaded guys on campus- one is quite tall and has super-curly red hair... I would guess that no one tries "kick a ginger" day on him. He's at least 6'4".

pepperminttea
December 14th, 2009, 11:35 PM
I never understand why people would dislike someone just because they're a redhead. But then, I was one of those weird kids who always wanted naturally red hair. :D

ericthegreat
December 15th, 2009, 12:06 AM
You're not weird pepperminttea. I definitely agree that red hair is alluring, stunning, and unique, and so does everyone or the vast majority of everyone here in the Americas and red is also a hugely fashionable, popular color in China , Korea and in Japan.

florenonite
December 15th, 2009, 10:58 AM
It doesn't sound that offensive to me, but even so. I'll repeat the point that others have already made: if 'ginger' was replaced with 'fat' or something related to race/ethnicity/nationality, it wouldn't even be placed on the shelves to begin with. I'm still not sure why gingerism persists. The whole Anglo-Saxon supremacy thing sounds like a logical explanation for its origin, but why is it still a problem today?


Same reason sexism's still a problem (ETA: even though it was supposedly eradicated in the 60s). It's so ingrained that people who don't even know its origins or understand it go along with it.

And, while not specifically related to red hair, even in the 1940s the "Celtic temperament" as an opposite to the "Anglo-Saxon temperament" was common in poetry and other arts, so there was this belief that Celts and the English were fundamentally different.

Alia
December 15th, 2009, 11:04 AM
Sure, it's a joke, but it is targeted at little kids. Not cool. :nono:

melrose1985
December 15th, 2009, 11:07 AM
Personally i love red heads/gingers, and i really wish i had that color hair myself. But i always remember growing up with my dad making jokes about " being the red headed step child." I dont understand that one myself.

Fethenwen
December 15th, 2009, 11:09 AM
Hmm, I don't find this ginger humor offensive.
Most people surely have nothing against gingers, they just enjoy making fun of gingers :p, and red hair is often considered very beautiful. I think it is made fun of just because red hair is less common and has also has some old cultural associations with it :shrug:

florenonite
December 15th, 2009, 11:30 AM
Sure, it's a joke, but it is targeted at little kids. Not cool. :nono:

Is it targeted at kids? It seems to me to be more the sort of thing teenagers/young adults would give each other. I do think it shouldn't be sitting in view where kids can see it, as they likely can as it's a supermarket.

It reminds me of something I read a while ago about rude/tasteless birthday cards in Britain. The author, IIRC, didn't care that adults were giving each other these cards, but was upset that they were sold in shops where children could see them, and I feel the same way about this.

AnneAdeline
December 15th, 2009, 11:48 AM
I am glad that this card is no longer on the shelves. I have always envied redheads, and so it is completely alien to me that some people make fun of them. (I joke with my DBF that I would steal his gorgeous red hair if I could. Sadly, science has not progressed to that level yet.)

embee
December 15th, 2009, 12:13 PM
I was born a redhead but it all faded away. My mom was happy but *I* am sad. My SIL was a glorious redhead and the men in our family thought she was gorgeous. When she and my brother came to visit my dad said it was like having an angel in the house. Oh, how I wanted that hair! :)

Seems to me every group gets a shot at being the object of derision and jokes... blacks, foreigners, Polish people, Jewish people, blondes, women, fat, thin, old - you name it, there's a bunch of (sometimes *very mean*) jokes out there about them. It must be a human thing to do. In-group and Outsiders or something.

What I find truly sad is that rudeness has become so mainstream acceptable, it's considered funny. I see it here in the stores, the cards for birthdays and all, there's a whole section of "humorous" and they're not funny - they're plain old rude and mean. I'd be hurt to receive such a card. It would make me rethink my friendship with the sender.

My DD was ostracized because she wore glasses. This went on for years. Finally one very popular and respected girl said something nice about DD because DD was good in her studies and it began to make a bit of difference.

Shoot, both my kids were on the outside of every group, as was I. I was born in the wrong place and my last name was funny. My kids, well, we lived in the wrong part of town.

sigh.........

Beatnik Guy
December 15th, 2009, 03:27 PM
The thing with Gingerism in the UK is that it's suspected to have deep roots in very real racism. Anglo-Saxons, as a general rule, don't have red hair. Irish and Scots folk often do (and possibly Welsh? They're Celtic, too). The Anglo-Saxons, from the time they entered England until about eighty years ago (and some to this day), thought they were superior to the Celts, in temperament and otherwise.

Exactly. I'm also going to paste from Wiki (which says it better than me), because there is more:

Red hair was thought to be a mark of a beastly sexual desire and moral degeneration. A savage red-haired man is portrayed in the fable by Grimm brothers (Der Eisenhans) as the spirit of the forest of iron. Theophilus Presbyter describes how the blood of a red-haired young man is necessary to create gold from copper, in a mixture with the ashes of a basilisk.

Montague Summers, in his translation of the Malleus Maleficarum, notes that red hair and green eyes were thought to be the sign of a witch, a werewolf or a vampire during the Middle Ages:
Those whose hair is red, of a certain peculiar shade, are unmistakably vampires. It is significant that in ancient Egypt, as Manetho tells us, human sacrifices were offered at the grave of Osiris, and the victims were red-haired men who were burned, their ashes being scattered far and wide by winnowing-fans. It is held by some authorities that this was done to fertilize the fields and produce a bounteous harvest, red-hair symbolizing the golden wealth of the corn. But these men were called Typhonians, and were representatives not of Osiris but of his evil rival Typhon, whose hair was red.


I'm glad this card is gone --- but I'm shoocked that it was ever thought it would be acceptable. :rolleyes:

Crysta
December 15th, 2009, 03:37 PM
It is basicly racism under another name, (whatever name that is) because hair colour is something your born with, it's pigmentation the same stuff that makes skin colour the way it is. hair is wavy, straight and curly, just the same as facial features are different.

It's the kindof thing that shouldn't be deemed 'acceptable discrimination' unless you want it to get worse. I'm pretty sure alot of people here agree that discrimination in any form is discusting, and yes it was ment in a lighthearted way.

On the other hand if I said to an Egyptian "You're ok for an Egyptian" i'm pretty sure it may not be taken as light heartedly, because the derogative nature is less acceptable. "You're ok for a (fill in the ethnicity) is basicly the same as saying "I love everyone, even gingers"

kimannabella
December 15th, 2009, 04:55 PM
liberal culture is a very thin veneer in our society.

that said, I don't think this card is all that terrible

Hairtada
December 15th, 2009, 05:12 PM
Are those three little girls sitting with the woman supposed to be redheads?? They look like dark blondes to me.Does that color pass for red in the UK??
I do agree the card was in poor taste .

Thinthondiel
December 15th, 2009, 05:22 PM
spidermom: according to the OED, "ginger" as an adjective can mean "A light sandy colour, resembling that of ginger" and therefore by extension "a red-haired or sandy-haired person".


With that definition, it still doesn't fit. A light sandy color isn't red, it's more of a beige-brown to my eye, and there's nothing red either about the fresh ginger root or the ground spice. Ack! I just don't get it.


Maybe the term was first used about "sandy" hair, including strawberry blonde (which can be quite "sandy"), and then eventually came to mean red hair...

I don't know, it's just a guess.

I have to say I love ginger hair, though... I used to hate it when I was a kid, but that was just because my big brother was the only person I knew who had ginger hair, and I used to think he was mean. :p He was teased for it at school as well.

I now have a nephew (my brother's son, obviously) with the most gorgeous ginger hair. I hope he won't be teased because of it when he
gets older, but I'm pretty sure he will.


ETA:

Are those three little girls sitting with the woman supposed to be redheads?? They look like dark blondes to me.Does that color pass for red in the UK??

I was wondering the same thing. Even though it doesn't look like it in the picture, there's probably a hint of red in their hair.

rchorr
December 15th, 2009, 05:27 PM
I've never understood that, either. I like my auburn hair, and my brother's bright, shiney copper penny hair is gorgeous!

RCHORR'

jasper
December 15th, 2009, 08:47 PM
My grandmother was a redhead, and she only had one red headed grand child (not me) so I grew up thinking red hair was some kind of special blessing. I don't know how my cousin felt about it growing up, but to this day, I have a kind of awe for the redheads

little_acorn
December 15th, 2009, 09:16 PM
LOL Tescos have now taken this card off the shelves - go red power!! :p

missjessiecakes
December 15th, 2009, 09:46 PM
Red heads get a bad rap. I mean really bad. My mom had vibrant red hair when she was younger and she told me that one man didnt want to date her because "redheads have a icky smell" not even kidding you.

KiwiLiz
December 16th, 2009, 01:47 AM
Red heads get a bad rap. I mean really bad. My mom had vibrant red hair when she was younger and she told me that one man didnt want to date her because "redheads have a icky smell" not even kidding you.

LOL, what?

xxaimsxx
December 16th, 2009, 03:06 AM
I know it's really stupid. Fancy that though as a christmas card? Its abit weired.
I've got brown hair but in school i remember everyone used to make a massive hoo-har if you had ginger hair. I don't even know how that originated.
Dumb! :rolleyes:

meph
December 16th, 2009, 03:50 AM
Heh, I can't help but think that it's a bit funny. I'm not too offended either, but maybe I'm just used to ginger jokes.

Although, when you look at the increasing ginger hate and even violence against people who have red hair, it's kind of disgusting. I agree that this card would have never been made if it made fun of a racial group. (making fun of other people because they look or act different is stupid any way)

I wanted to say more but my mind is not working properly right now. I'm glad that they took the woman's complain seriously though, and that they removed the card from the shops.

Kirsty
December 16th, 2009, 04:01 AM
I freaking love red hair and have even considered dying mine. I was heartbroken to learn that my friend with gorgeous and shiny, natural red hair dyed it black. :(

However, there are a lot of jokes about red-heads. Because you don't see as many red-heads as brunettes or blondes or black hair. It's 'different' so people pick on it but I see the beauty in it. Blondes have been getting jokes for years though...

catysue
December 16th, 2009, 06:01 AM
I'm a ginger and I think that card is hilarious.

florenonite
December 16th, 2009, 01:12 PM
Are those three little girls sitting with the woman supposed to be redheads?? They look like dark blondes to me.Does that color pass for red in the UK??
I do agree the card was in poor taste .

I think it's the lighting. They're probably under fluorescent lights, which give a bluish cast, so if their hair is strawberry blonde or light red, both of which fall into the broad category of ginger, in that lighting it might just look blonde.

I've got some henna in my hair, and under fluorescent lights there's absolutely no demarcation with my very ashy dark blonde/light brown hair, but in sunlight you can see the ginger glow of the henna. I suspect their natural colour is similar.

ETA: If that were the colour of their hair in incandescent lighting or sunlight, barring differences between monitors, I certainly wouldn't call it ginger (save the one on the far left, whose hair is redder than the others). Hence I imagine it's just the lighting.

Bonkers57
December 16th, 2009, 05:25 PM
I believe what the folks across the pond are saying about Anglo-Saxons vs Celts, but I'm confused -

I understand that the classic Celt coloring is dark hair and pale skin (a gorgeous combination, IMO). The red came from the marauding Vikings, many of whom settled in the places they once pillaged, mixing with the natives. Dublin had been settled largely by Vikings; they found tons of artifacts there.

History geek strikes again!

flapjack
December 16th, 2009, 05:27 PM
That's garbage, complete garbage. People are morons. Red hair is stunning and I think the people who mock it have inferiority complexes.


And as I (and a bunch of other people) have said before... you're always welcome in the US, if you're a redhead. Americans (especially the men) love red hair.

julliams
December 16th, 2009, 05:35 PM
Here in Australia the term "ranga" is used which I personally find offensive. I believe it is a short version of "orangutan" due to the colour of the fur but I could be wrong. It could also come from the word "orange".

I am strawberry blonde and have never been called this name but I actually feel upset when I hear the term used to describe a person. Usually these people have dark red hair and very pale skin with freckles. These kids are often taunted with the name and whilst it isn't a racial group, I feel the taunt is just as bad since it is being made about something the child has no control over and is born with.

I would have found the card offensive and would be upset by it.

Juliette

skay
December 16th, 2009, 07:20 PM
Chiming in and agreeing with those who've said, basically, that red heads are cool in the U.S. and that men do find them attractive as well. :)

Some years ago, a good friend of mine, an older widow who grew up in Ireland remarked to me how she couldn't believe everyone seemed to be dying their hair red in the U.S. (she herself dies her hair dark brown-now graying hair red. She has red-headed children and since she's Irish people think it's her real hair color :) )...

...she continued and said that, growing up, red heads weren't treated that well (or something like that, I can't exactly remember her words). I didn't understand at the time what was she was talking about because I found that hard to believe.

Interestingly, at the time, I noticed that I attracted a lot of red heads into my life. My then-boyfriend had medium-red hair, my 3 closest friends all had red hair (but it was dyed from light brown or blond) to red, and another good friend had natural red-blond hair.

Bonkers57
December 17th, 2009, 08:45 AM
Flapjack is absolutely right! Redheads are often perceived (consciously or not) as fiery = passionate = sexy :) I think the majority of women who have dyed their hair at some point (myself included) have dyed it red at one time or another.


That's garbage, complete garbage. People are morons. Red hair is stunning and I think the people who mock it have inferiority complexes.


And as I (and a bunch of other people) have said before... you're always welcome in the US, if you're a redhead. Americans (especially the men) love red hair.

Say what? I'd say that guy was just crazy!


Red heads get a bad rap. I mean really bad. My mom had vibrant red hair when she was younger and she told me that one man didnt want to date her because "redheads have a icky smell" not even kidding you.

florenonite
December 17th, 2009, 10:31 AM
I believe what the folks across the pond are saying about Anglo-Saxons vs Celts, but I'm confused -

I understand that the classic Celt coloring is dark hair and pale skin (a gorgeous combination, IMO). The red came from the marauding Vikings, many of whom settled in the places they once pillaged, mixing with the natives. Dublin had been settled largely by Vikings; they found tons of artifacts there.

History geek strikes again!

I was under the impression that it was blonde hair that came from the Vikings, particularly the platinum blonde that is very common in young children here. It makes more sense, as Scandinavian hair is commonly blonde, not red.

Climber
December 17th, 2009, 11:04 AM
I think this Tim Minchin song is appropriate for this thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0IVuGK7sAw

:p

Qamar
December 17th, 2009, 11:11 AM
Perhaps I'm odd, or just overtired, but I'm not seeing the joke. I'm not offended, but I don't see where the humour is supposed to be in that.

Starr
December 17th, 2009, 12:22 PM
I find the card offensive. . . but then again I'm hypersensitive about the subject due to the fact that my dad is a redhead. That being said I find bigotry in any form should never be tolerated. Just last month several redheaded kids here in California were targeted and attacked by their peers for having red hair.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-ginger-attacks1-2009dec01,0,7737967.story

Carolyn
December 17th, 2009, 12:41 PM
I thought the card was funny. Us blondes get made fun of all the time. :shrug: I think people need to stop looking for things to get offended about.

enfys
December 17th, 2009, 01:04 PM
I believe what the folks across the pond are saying about Anglo-Saxons vs Celts, but I'm confused -

I understand that the classic Celt coloring is dark hair and pale skin (a gorgeous combination, IMO). The red came from the marauding Vikings, many of whom settled in the places they once pillaged, mixing with the natives. Dublin had been settled largely by Vikings; they found tons of artifacts there.

History geek strikes again!

Celts are normally fairly fair. The main hair colour in the UK is probably mousey-mid brown. The red is from the locals, especially the Scots and Irish, not the Viking invasion. The Welsh avoided the gingerness, but I don't know how. The Romans were a bigger problem for us than Vikings.

Not that it's related to much at all, there are just a lot of Welsh folk museums that focus on the Celts that I like to hang out in...

AnimaSola3o4
December 17th, 2011, 10:28 PM
I'm not nearly as offended at 'white' jokes as I am about 'gingerism.' Why? Becauuse white people are far more common than redheads. Being such an actual minority (I say minority in comparison to skin color or other hair colors), makes it a bigger deal, because you're singling us out that much more.

ETA: sorry for the thread resurrection. I did a search for gingerism because I've been coming across so much more of it these days..... :( I never did like southpark, but they definitely crossed the line in encouraging all of the hatred.

piffyanne
December 17th, 2011, 10:46 PM
I've wanted my whole life to be able to have redheaded kids. Good thing my dbf is a red-head, right?

I'd be more likely to rave in a complimentary way about gingers than to insult them. I don't get it.

ericthegreat
December 17th, 2011, 10:59 PM
From what I understand, the slanders and slurs against redheads or "gingers" as they are referred to in the UK, goes way back to a long, deep seated ancient rivalry/hatred that the English have for the Irish. Its all a bunch of rubbish from this Yankee's point of view. :p

I quite happen to love the intensity of a red hair color, whether it is a natural born redhead or if the color was achieved thro henna or a chemical color, I really like how red stands out from all the other colors like blonde and brunette.

Melisande
December 17th, 2011, 11:40 PM
I remember that Princess Diana told about Prince Charles' reaction to son Harry's ginger hair (beautiful boy btw). He was horrified by it. I've heard that in the UK, red hair is a real issue and that people are cruel about it. Much more so than they would about other traits because it's supposed to be "harmless fun". I remember Jane Asher saying that she and her brothers were teased and bullied for their hair color. "The carrots of Wimpole street" got tired after a while, she said. Indeed.

In Germany, it's a mixed bag. There are prejudices against redheads, but positive red headed role models, from Pippi Longstocking (http://www.golyr.de/artist_imgs/artists/9173/9173_image_1.jpg) to several gorgeous actresses and models, have balanced it out lately. In children's books, you have evil Klepperbein on the one hand, the powerful feurrote Friederike (http://media2.libri.de/shop/coverscans/140/1402990_1402990_xl.jpg) on the other.

Red hair is also the characteristic of the evil twisted Jew Veitel Itzig in Freytag's popular novel Soll und Haben. And the noble countess Liane in one of Eugenie Marlitt's novels is a red head, too. So I guess in German culture, it goes both ways. (Itzig is very similar to Uriah Heep btw)

I had a reddish tinge and freckles when I was a child, and I remember friends of my mother's saying admiringly how beautiful that is. I don't remember real red heads being teased. Yes, red heads are witches but that's a compliment nowadays.

I remember reading Ephraim Kishon as a child, he is very popular in Germany. I never "got" the running joke about his "gingy" son Amir and his temperament. When I learned Hebrew, I understood that "gingy" means much more than a hair color in Hebrew. It means a character trait - nonconformist, honest, temperamental. It has an admiring sound. About Rabin it was said, "he was a real gingy", i.e., he never learned to keep his mouth shut and was frank in a positive way.

This whole load of meaning could not be conveyed in the simple German word "rothaarig". the connotations were not there so it fell flat for me when I read Kishon's sighs "oh well, he's a gingy"...

So I think that even if we understand the words of the "joke", we can't understand the whole facet of associations if we don't live in the surrounding where bullying ginger children is an everyday occurence and accepted.

I must say the card is in poor taste, and if it hurts the feelings of children, then it's only proper to take it off the shelves. No more legitimacy for bullying! It was once thought to be "just the thing children do" but nowadays we know better.

I think that most adults can deal with "jokes" of that kind but children can't.

And about the color: crysalized ginger looks reddish, so does ginger syrup. I guess that before modern transportation which allowed people to buy fresh ginger regularly, many people may have relied on conserved ginger. Which has a reddish color.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/403436-is-crystallized-ginger-good-for-you/

http://photos2.demandstudios.com/DM-Resize/photos.demandstudios.com/51/127/fotolia_2829200_XS.jpg?h=10000&w=300&keep_ratio=1

Helix
December 18th, 2011, 12:46 AM
I think this Tim Minchin song is appropriate for this thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0IVuGK7sAw

:p

Lol. Not that song again! My smexy redheaded bf has been randomly humming/singing that song ever since someone forwarded that YT video to him some months ago. I will never hear the end of it.

MonaMayfair
December 18th, 2011, 05:49 AM
This is what non-UKers need to remember; because of its history, this is a bigotry issue.


Exactly. Although MY red hair is courtesy of henna (I WAS born with red hair, that quickly turned blonde!) my mother and most of her family have red hair and are of Irish descent.

Sunsailing
December 18th, 2011, 08:21 AM
I find it very weird to refer to red as "ginger" The ginger root is kind of brown and the spice is off-white. Where does the red come in?

It must be a term only used in GB, because I've never heard of it either.

Here's a thought...
I'm wondering if it can be traced back to England treating the Irish like they were a lower form of human being? It was probably considered an insult if you told someone they looked "Irish". Here in the U.S. if someone has red hair, most people assume some of their family roots trace back to Ireland or Scotland.

You would never see a card like that one in the U.S..
(But you might see a card referring to blondes.)

Sunsailing
December 18th, 2011, 08:32 AM
I thought the card was funny. Us blondes get made fun of all the time. :shrug: I think people need to stop looking for things to get offended about.

I agree about people need to stop looking for things to be offended about.

I have some blonde friends that tell the best blonde jokes!!:)

jacqueline101
December 18th, 2011, 08:40 AM
I don't see how they get away with it aren't there laws against those type of comments.

Amber_Maiden
December 18th, 2011, 08:42 AM
I think that's absolutely disgusting.

AnimaSola3o4
December 19th, 2011, 12:38 AM
Exactly. I'm also going to paste from Wiki (which says it better than me), because there is more:


I'm glad this card is gone --- but I'm shoocked that it was ever thought it would be acceptable. :rolleyes:

Yeah, I remember browsing Barnes and Noble and there was a book devoted to redheads (photos, trivia type stuff) and there was a section on how redheads used to be considered witches and would be killed.

I have red hair and green eyes. Certainly not a witch lol. Not that I'd be opposed to being one!! :eyebrows:

Kiwiwi
December 19th, 2011, 03:42 AM
It simply is discrimination. "Santa loves everyone, even gingers! Though they are absolutely disgusting santa loves them too, don't worry." That's basicly what it says. It implies that gingers are less than others. Less pretty, less smart, less friendly, less valueable, etc. I don't understand how one can not be offended about it.
Yes, I understand that people, amongst their loved ones, can make jokes like this. You know your loved ones and there is a mutual understanding of "we don't mean this seriously because we don't discriminate". But to put this on a card in a store, no. That's a step too far for me.

I want to point something else out. Someone in this thread mentioned south park. I find it weird that so many people still don't understand what south park does. (Possibly) getting mad at south park is like getting mad at people who stand up against injustice, against rasism/discrimination, etc. Because that is what they do. They make ridiculously insulting cartoons to show how ridiculous people can be with their rasism, etc. It's like a mirror towards society.
But this is completely off topic :-)

Melisande
December 19th, 2011, 04:08 AM
Kiwiwi, I expect that you are not aware of the consequences "kick a ginger day" had for a lot of red haired children.

http://weeklyworldnews.com/headlines/13866/kick-a-ginger-day/


A holiday in the TV show “South Park” has unfortunately become a reality, to the horror of “ginger kids” everywhere!

In 2005, South Park aired an episode called “Ginger Kids”, where the character Cartman decides to create the holiday “Kick a Ginger Day”. The sole purpose is to beat up other children with red hair.

Facebook groups began popping up, declaring November 20th “Kick a Ginger Day”. Police believe this led to 14 students beating up a red-headed 12 year old in Calabasas, California!

Of course this was not the intention of the producers and writers. But that's what happened. IMO it is justified to criticise them for not understanding the places bully children might take such a joke, and underestimating the influence they have.


ETA: I found many of such reports, more reliable than the one I linked to first.

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/story.html?id=ac06eaac-1cb1-4ee7-8e17-a9b8b314af71

Kiwiwi
December 19th, 2011, 04:59 AM
Oh wow! I indeed did not know about this! :-(
I didn't know about that episode.

You are absolutely right.

Cania
December 19th, 2011, 05:21 AM
DBF is a red head, and he gets trouble for it all the time, which really irritates me.
In my primary school, there was one red head and nobody really cared. My teacher called him the "red squirrel" but he loved it and it was affectionate. It wasn't until I went to secondary school that I found out about all the discrimination and I was really shocked.

My friends and I tease DBF about being "ginger", but only in the same way that they tease me about being "obese" every time I go to McDonald's - I'm 120lbs so nobody takes offence. But it's different, in my opinion.