PDA

View Full Version : big halo - lots of breakage



Emichiee
April 25th, 2008, 11:54 AM
I have been dwelling on this for a while now and just dont know what to do any more.

Last year I discovered breakage around the part of my hair where I usually have my ponytail. So I went through my collection of hairtoys and decided to ditch my beak clips which were rather sharp edged.

So now I wear my updos every day which are usually held my a clap clip (30%), hair stick (20%), hair fork (20%) or soft cloth hairbands (50%, like chinese bun or gibson tuck/braids etc.)

I thought this should be gentle enough but the fact is I have a huge ammount of breakage around that ponytail area..:(

It has gotten so bad my ponytail starts off with 10.5cm/ 4.2" and decreases to 6 cm/ 2.3" once ist reaches shoulder! I used to have 6cm thickness around midback.. :rolleyes:
(I monitor my taper the only drastic change is below the nape)
My length, not just the ends also seems to be affected...

For the past days I have only worn buns with hairtsicks or loose braids. I dont know what to do. I love wearing updos but it seems to cause my hair such immense breakage.

At my length and with past damage from dyeing my hair I really do need ALL of my thickness to grow down or I dont see myself wearing my hair much longer.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/NAGAI-KAMI/Emi/breakagemarch08.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/NAGAI-KAMI/Emi/breakagemarch08_2.jpg

The pictures are a little dark sorry..

Hope to get some good advice or maybe someone can share similar experiences..or someone knows a variety of the most gentle updos.

Emi

Edit:
Btw. My hair is usally pretty resiliant..I barely have any splits or breakage down my length and it survived 9 yrs. of chemical dye before it started being bothered by it.
I must have done sth. horrible to that ponytail (too tight)

The halo is in my healthy only hennaed virgin hair..:(

It is also n o t regrowth, I do have regrowth that reaches my shoulders, that halo does not fit in any shed or damaging experience I had.

The damage a hairdresser caused 2 years ago is between APL and BSL now..

Ok I hope its deitailed now :)

Edit2:
It cant be from sleeping since I wear my hair high up in a bun on top of my head. Its held by a claw clip. Its funny that the spot where I always place the claw clip is completely damage free...makes me think my hair is pretty resiliant but then I dont understand the breakage. Or maybe my claw clip is really gentle..?

By the way am I wrong for feeling bad about loosing 1 1/2 " of thickness below my nape due to breakage? If that would get any worse (really see through f.ex.) it would be a reason for me not to wear my hair this long.

Irishred
April 25th, 2008, 12:04 PM
Oh Emichiee, I know what you are talking about.

This is from last September. I have these shorter bits all over but the front is most noticeable.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/momandscout/2007_0913shorties.jpg

I thought it was all from sleep braids causing breakage (O don't pony tail that often) but realized after a while that it was not all breakage but mostly regrowth that was just finally coming in. Don't know why I didn't notice it before then but I didn't. Could this be some of yours as well?

Rain
April 25th, 2008, 12:09 PM
My younger daughter's head looks exactly like that from the back. In her case, I know it is because she just yanks the ponytailer out when she takes her hair down and when she does comb it (she is very proud of the fact that she doesn't, ever), she just yanks the comb through. I think her sister had the same type of damage when she was younger but it wasn't as obvious because her hair was curlier.

For me personally, I seem to always get damage when I make a ponytail. There is a lot of friction when you draw the hair through the band. So I usually put my hair up with a hair-friendly stick or fork or a Ficcare. I would get some nice pomade to smooth down the halo and work on doing my 'dos without having to make a ponytail at all.

MusingFrog
April 25th, 2008, 12:11 PM
My guess is that it is from the cloth bands. I only wear scrunchies now because of a similar problem. However, also remember that stopping more damage from occurring isn't going to automatically get rid of the damage already there. Most unfortunately the biggest problem with breakage is that it has to be grown out.

Curlsgirl
April 25th, 2008, 12:23 PM
Could it possibly be from that horrible experience you had at the hairdresser's a while back?

Isilme
April 25th, 2008, 02:11 PM
are you really sure it isn't regrowth? Or damage from the past traveling down? Or plain frizz?
ETA. that's a really nice henna colour you have going on :)

Emichiee
April 25th, 2008, 02:15 PM
Irishred

I mostly have it in the back and barely any in the front so I really think it is the ponytail..
I have regrowth at shoulder-length since my hair thickened up after I gave up chemical hair dye. It looks a lot like yours.
Bu the halo I have now fits in no regrowth shedule at all...and it stays at the same spot..(for 6 months now), even worsens..

-Curlsgirl

No the damage from the hairdresser is well past my shoulders that was 2 years ago :(, it is all 'healthy' virgin(henna) hair..

-cscheck

Yes, I know I am Master of growing out damage..if only I could keep my new growth healthy..:rolleyes:

My hair is usually not prone to damage at all..I wonder how I did this..:(

Blueglass
April 25th, 2008, 03:54 PM
Are you using pony tail holders with metal? Or barretts that are tearing up your hair? Are you frequently readjusting you pony tail holder? On the other,if the hair is brittle or coarse check thyroid.

Moezland
April 25th, 2008, 04:08 PM
Hi Emi! This is probably going to sound like a silly question, but when was the last time you henna'd your hair? Also, did you notice the breakage before you henna'd?

I'm having a similar issue, but I'm not really sure where it started. It seems to me that my hair was doing awesome this fall and winter, but recently in March, I henna'd my hair and all of a sudden I started to notice that my braid had thinned out. I started noticing breakage within the length of my hair - just really odd. Now, I'm not saying it's the henna because I really don't know, but I didn't really notice an issue until after the henna. I also thought perhaps it was how I was wearing my updos, but I don't do a lot of twisting at all. i wear hairsticks (mainly ketylo) and I'm very careful to not put them in when my hair is wet so that the weight of my damp hair doesn't stretch then break.

What's interesting also, and I hope he doesn't mind me mentioning this, but it seems glasseyes was just saying something about shedding and thinking that his henna might have had something to do with it. i meant to ask him the same question, about when he last henna'd and also what kind of henna he is using but I spaced off about it.

Also, could there be any other product that you just recently added to your routine that might be making your hair more prone to breakage in that area?

The thing is, if you've stopped putting in pony tails and you're still having a problem then it may very well be something more than just how you're wearing your hair - I'm no expert, of course, but it's just a thought.

mommy2one05
April 25th, 2008, 10:54 PM
I have what you are referring to as "halo" hair but I always thought it was frizzy or flyaway hair .... so is it really splits... and if so what can I do to handle this without losing length

eadwine
April 26th, 2008, 03:22 AM
S&Ds, that is about all you can do. You WILL lose length on those hairs you cut of course ;)

sandrak
April 26th, 2008, 03:23 AM
My hair looks exactly like yours. Not the color or lenght, of course, but I have the same halo. I feel your pain. I recently had 2in. cut and wanted to go shorter but my hair dresser talked me out of it. She said unless I cut past my ears, I would still have the same halo. I have been using alaffia shampoo and co. and the leave in and have noticed my hair has calmed down a bit. I hope you can find a solution, but your hair still looks beautiful and very shiny.

Xanthippe
April 26th, 2008, 04:41 AM
When you do a bun, do you twist the same way every time? I'm not sure if that can cause noticeable breakage but maybe the hair at the nape is being strained when you bun it and it's not the elastic bands, but the pressure of the hair on itself in the bun. You could try alternating with low braids that don't involve too much twisting of the hair right around that area or maybe try satin pillowcases if it happens when you are sleeping?

spidermom
April 26th, 2008, 09:41 AM
Hair! Don't you sometimes wish that you weren't aware of every little detail? I do!

Your hair is still beautiful. Now that you know there's a problem, try some different things. Start your buns in different places. Learn some new styles. Look at everything for sharp edges or roughness. And relax. Everybody has to accept a certain level of limitation, I believe. Most of us picture long, flowing hair, not hairs of every length poking all over the place, but because of the grow/shed/re-grow cycle, there will always be hairs of every length. I am slowly coming around to the realization that I'm going to have to accept a certain percentage of split ends. I do the best I can to prevent them, but I can't devote my entire life to always making sure that my hair is protected. I even dream about it sometimes ... looking at my hair ... seeing many awful splits. But I'll bet you can't see that from where you're sitting. Come to think of it, I can't see it in the mirror. So as long as I can keep myself from picking up my ends and looking at them, I can assume they're good.

salamander
April 26th, 2008, 11:10 AM
I'd say ditch everything but hair sticks and forks for a while. They do very little damage, so I think they shouldn't hurt your hair. Even the soft cloth pony tail holders will do damage. You could even wear your hair down more often, if you're OK with that. By the way, do you sleep on your back? A satin pillow case might help if you do.

Velvetine
April 27th, 2008, 05:25 AM
I share your pain - I have a fuzzy 4 inch halo (curly at the moment because of rainy weather). I thought mine was breakage too but I am very gentle with my hair and then I realised I had a massive shed late last year (nearly a 1/4 inch - from too much stress I think) so it actually must be regrowth.

Amoretti
April 27th, 2008, 05:35 AM
Don't make your updos starting from a pony tail. Just use a hairfork or stick, that should help.

Emichiee
April 27th, 2008, 07:12 PM
Are you using pony tail holders with metal? Or barretts that are tearing up your hair? Are you frequently readjusting you pony tail holder? On the other,if the hair is brittle or coarse check thyroid.

Not with metal but I used to wear barretts until last year fall. I am guilty of adjusting my ponytailholder though...:( I stopped doing it about 2 months ago and now I am not using any ponytailholders at all...


Hi Emi! This is probably going to sound like a silly question, but when was the last time you henna'd your hair? Also, did you notice the breakage before you henna'd?
I didnt pay too close attention to that but I always feel like my hair gets stronger and more damage free with Henna..I have been hennaing for quite a while now...Cassia in 2006 and Early 2007 I started with Henndigo, later changed to Henna...:confused:

I'm having a similar issue, but I'm not really sure where it started. It seems to me that my hair was doing awesome this fall and winter, but recently in March, I henna'd my hair and all of a sudden I started to notice that my braid had thinned out. I started noticing breakage within the length of my hair.
I have always had frizzy hairs in my length which I assumed were also due to my chemical dye using past. I grew the damage out and the virgin hair was really smooth until last year fall I noticed breakage but ponytail area only. I have much fewer splits and next to no breakage in my length/ends so I guess it cant be the Henna on me?

What's interesting also, and I hope he doesn't mind me mentioning this, but it seems glasseyes was just saying something about shedding and thinking that his henna might have had something to do with it.

I have been shedding much less and growing faster since Henna o_O..oh this is confusing.;)

Also, could there be any other product that you just recently added to your routine that might be making your hair more prone to breakage in that area?

I have been wearing a bigger variety of updos since last year summer. Many done with ponytail holders...thats the only thing I can think of. Before that I was a bun+hairstick girl ^^'


I will watch the effects of Henna closely..I hope its not making my hair more vunerable to breakage ...:( I like Henna a lot.


When you do a bun, do you twist the same way every time? I'm not sure if that can cause noticeable breakage but maybe the hair at the nape is being strained when you bun it and it's not the elastic bands, but the pressure of the hair on itself in the bun. You could try alternating with low braids that don't involve too much twisting of the hair right around that area or maybe try satin pillowcases if it happens when you are sleeping?

Yes I twist clockwise, I cant even do it the other way :o.
I think sleeping is not at problem since I sleep with high bun..so that area is bunned up. The claw clip I am using is not causing any damage to the hair high up btw.


Hair! Don't you sometimes wish that you weren't aware of every little detail? I do!

Your hair is still beautiful. Now that you know there's a problem, try some different things. Start your buns in different places. Learn some new styles. Look at everything for sharp edges or roughness. And relax. Everybody has to accept a certain level of limitation, I believe. Most of us picture long, flowing hair, not hairs of every length poking all over the place, but because of the grow/shed/re-grow cycle, there will always be hairs of every length. I am slowly coming around to the realization that I'm going to have to accept a certain percentage of split ends. I do the best I can to prevent them, but I can't devote my entire life to always making sure that my hair is protected. I even dream about it sometimes ... looking at my hair ... seeing many awful splits. But I'll bet you can't see that from where you're sitting. Come to think of it, I can't see it in the mirror. So as long as I can keep myself from picking up my ends and looking at them, I can assume they're good.

Hehe..I know what you mean..I can protect my hair in my sleep...:D
And I know I worry too much..heck my husband knows..everyone tells me..:o
But I think that this halo is having a more dramatic effect than my frizzies that I have.
I have measured my hairs thickness from top to bottom at every hairlength for almost 2 years and was surprised to see I am gaining thickness on top (iii) and losing thickness rapidly just at the nape. It wasnt like that before.
My length does not even taper drastically...very gradually..little by little but if I already lose 4cm around my nape I dont have much more thickness left at tailbone..:(
I hope its understandable but thats the main thing that bothers me.

Something funny I already mentioned before..- I sleep with a high bun held by a claw clip. And ist funny I have no breakage whatsoever where that clip is placed (much higher than the nape breakage)..so is my hair really that delicate??? Or is a claw clip in fact nicer to my hair than a soft cloth band? o_o

Fact is I will wear hair sticks, forks and loose braids a lot from now on..I cant wear my hair down really..too messy, it gets in the way at work (and the stares and comments...:rolleyes:)

Thank you guys for your thoughts..I hope I will find a cure for that problem now..:shrug:

eadwine
April 28th, 2008, 01:13 AM
Not with metal but I used to wear barretts until last year fall. I am guilty of adjusting my ponytailholder though...:( I stopped doing it about 2 months ago and now I am not using any ponytailholders at all...

There you go.. that could be just the cause. The broken hair is growing again and will stand out a bit more until it gets back to length and blends in again :)

mommy2one05
April 28th, 2008, 08:38 AM
Hair! Don't you sometimes wish that you weren't aware of every little detail? I do!

Your hair is still beautiful. Now that you know there's a problem, try some different things. Start your buns in different places. Learn some new styles. Look at everything for sharp edges or roughness. And relax. Everybody has to accept a certain level of limitation, I believe. Most of us picture long, flowing hair, not hairs of every length poking all over the place, but because of the grow/shed/re-grow cycle, there will always be hairs of every length. I am slowly coming around to the realization that I'm going to have to accept a certain percentage of split ends. I do the best I can to prevent them, but I can't devote my entire life to always making sure that my hair is protected. I even dream about it sometimes ... looking at my hair ... seeing many awful splits. But I'll bet you can't see that from where you're sitting. Come to think of it, I can't see it in the mirror. So as long as I can keep myself from picking up my ends and looking at them, I can assume they're good.


Great advice! I think some if not alot of us ( including myself) need to relax about our hair and enjoy it as it is. We need to count ourself lucky that it is at it's length that it is and is considerably healthy than most women who do not care to take extra care of their hair.

domonic_uk
April 28th, 2008, 01:38 PM
I still think it looks great Emichee, have you tried changing the way you wear to sleep. Even if you get the bear minimum recomended 8 hours per night that is an awfully long time to wear the hair.

Emichiee
April 29th, 2008, 09:36 AM
I still think it looks great Emichee, have you tried changing the way you wear to sleep. Even if you get the bear minimum recomended 8 hours per night that is an awfully long time to wear the hair.

I wear it up in a high bun so that area does not touch the pillow or get in contact with any hair clip or anything. And where I actually do place the claw clip that holds my bun my hair is smooth and breakage free...:confused: I find this confusing...

eresh
April 29th, 2008, 10:12 AM
My hair looks like that to the last few weeks :-s
Is it the weather that has an influence, or what...
I see no splits...I do have hair at almost every possible length (duea to old layers and old breakage due do dyeing a lot in the past), but it used to be smooth and unnoticable.
Nowadays, the ends kinds of curl outwards...
Most of the hairs that do this, I noticed, have discoloring/greying spots exactly where they start to curl outwards...does this have to do with it perhaps??
Does greying cause this normally? (Anyone experiences or tips?...maybe I should start a new topic about this)
I was this close to hacking it all off this morning, urgh...frustration.

Emichiee
April 29th, 2008, 11:52 AM
Most of the hairs that do this, I noticed, have discoloring/greying spots exactly where they start to curl outwards...does this have to do with it perhaps??
Does greying cause this normally? (Anyone experiences or tips?...maybe I should start a new topic about this)
I was this close to hacking it all off this morning, urgh...frustration.

Grey hair mostly is coarser and has a different texture than hair that is not grey yet.
Maybe thats why they are more noticeable?
Do you have it all over or just at one part of your hair?

I know that humidity can make some hair really frizzy. If you have only had it for a while Im sure its just temporary.:)

I have a few frizzies and and shorter hairs all over but the hair at the nape is different..
Dont cut :shake:, Im sure theres a solution to it. The aerlier you notice the better.
Maybe its good that I pay this close attention to the back of my head otherwise I would not have found the cause for my thinning braid. At least now I can stop it..*I hope*

Sofoulee
April 29th, 2008, 12:16 PM
I have heard that it's better to use elastics with no metal attachment than to use cloth covered elastics because the hair gets caught in the material and is broken when it is taken down..

It's also best to always unravel the elastic (as you probably already know...) than to pull it from your hair.

My hair is uber-fine and it snaps so very easily, so I always make sure to apply some type of strengthening lotion to the hair before I put it up. It's part of my daily routine along with good conditioning.

I hope you get alot of great advice. Your hair is beautiful and I'm sure that you'll find a solution!

domonic_uk
April 29th, 2008, 12:41 PM
I hope you have you found the solution now Emichiee

Emichiee
April 30th, 2008, 09:45 AM
I have heard that it's better to use elastics with no metal attachment than to use cloth covered elastics because the hair gets caught in the material and is broken when it is taken down..

It's also best to always unravel the elastic (as you probably already know...) than to pull it from your hair.

My hair is uber-fine and it snaps so very easily, so I always make sure to apply some type of strengthening lotion to the hair before I put it up. It's part of my daily routine along with good conditioning.

I hope you get alot of great advice. Your hair is beautiful and I'm sure that you'll find a solution!

Hi, I do wear Metal Free Elastics but I didnt think of unraveling the elastic before..:o..I really just pull it from my hair. I thought as long as no hairs are caught theres no harm.

Hm..I cant think of any strengthening lotion other than one that contains silicones..I have been cone free for 1 1/2 yrs now and dont want to go back to it.
Is there any cone free alternative for strenghtening?:confused:

-Domonic

I guess I will just have to see if it gets better when I stop wearing ponytails..:shrug:
Will take new pictures in a few months to see if the halo is growing out.

eresh
April 30th, 2008, 02:59 PM
I only cut 4cm ;-)

I have some breakage in the same area at the back of my head too, done by one of the cats...I was asleep.
It is noticable when they frizz when my hair has rained wet and dried again and ofcourse they stick out of the braid just below the nape, fuzzyness.
I'm trying oil to make it frizz less and wrap a scarf around the base of my braid to protect it from rubbing and frizzing even more.

AmandaPanda
April 30th, 2008, 04:41 PM
I have some of that, too. I don't think I make my bun too tight, but I always twist the same way and place it in the same spot. I rarely use a brush, never comb my hair wet, and I only use hairsticks or forks. I never use any hair elastics near the scalp (only on braid ends). When my hair is short, it almost curls plus I do have some curly hairs, so I'm guessing this is just new growth and it's sticking out because they're wavy/curly and the humidity has been a bit high.

I get flyaways near my part too...those have to be new growth, but they were smoothed down this morning (I guess from natural oils) while the short hairs around the ear/nape area were sticking out. I use a satin pillowcase, but I'm wondering if the way my hair may have rubbed against the pillow caused my hair to frizz.

I think my hair has been shedding more in the last few months that it used to

Emichiee
May 1st, 2008, 12:54 PM
I only cut 4cm ;-)

I have some breakage in the same area at the back of my head too, done by one of the cats...I was asleep.
It is noticable when they frizz when my hair has rained wet and dried again and ofcourse they stick out of the braid just below the nape, fuzzyness.
I'm trying oil to make it frizz less and wrap a scarf around the base of my braid to protect it from rubbing and frizzing even more.

Bad Kittie! :p..what did it do play? I wonder if they chase your hair at kneelength wanting to play ?:confused:


AmandaPanda

I really have to try twisting my bun differently I guess..Never thought this could be the reason too.
*Sigh* Hairtsticks are nice but there is vertain styles I love that I can only do with an elastic..but for the sake of my hair I will save these for special occasions.:(

lora410
May 1st, 2008, 12:58 PM
you said you sleep with a claw clip? even tossing and turnign with one of them is sure to snap hairs. Have you tried doign a scrunchie bun?

Emichiee
May 1st, 2008, 07:17 PM
you said you sleep with a claw clip? even tossing and turnign with one of them is sure to snap hairs. Have you tried doign a scrunchie bun?

You mean this? ^^


Edit2:
It cant be from sleeping since I wear my hair high up in a bun on top of my head. Its held by a claw clip. Its funny that the spot where I always place the claw clip is completely damage free...makes me think my hair is pretty resiliant but then I dont understand the breakage. Or maybe my claw clip is really gentle..?


Cant be it :(...It has been the most gentle way of holding my hair up so far..hard to explain how but it just grabs it at one spot and the bun does not move all night..:)