Super Porous Hair and Fading Henna

[rogue_psyche]

Before I ask my questions here's a little background on my hair. I do a modified shampoo and condition type wash where I put conditioner on my length and then use shampoo on my scalp. I rinse and then condition again. I wash with Trader Joe's Spa Nourish and condition with GVP Conditioning balm. I wash 2-3 times a week.

At the beginning of 2009 I peroxided my virgin hair and used manic panic until the roots came in. I didn't want to play the roots/fading dye game so often anymore so I used Punjabi prime henna from Catherine's store.

Here I am about six months later and with a total of three whole head applications on my two-toned head, and I find that the peroxided bits from my eyes down looses the strawberry red color about a week after an application and ends up kind of a orangy blonde. My roots are auburn, and I hope to one day have a head of virgin+henna hair but in the mean time I'd like to get the roots and length to match slightly better.

What I'm considering doing is switching to the most recent crop Yemeni henna since people report getting a deeper, darker red. I may also switch to dying the length only until I see noticeable roots from not hennaing. To combat the fade I will just buy a whole kilo, unless a new crop is expected in six months time, since at this rate a kilo is a six month supply and I don't want to pay shipping over and over. I will also be applying it more often, at least once a month, maybe twice if I don't see less fading.

So what I'm asking is: Is there any way to combat fading of henna due to over-porous hair? Would Yemeni henna blend my strawberry blonde length with my auburn roots? Will henna suppliers get a fresh crop of Yemeni henna before May 2010? Or should I hunker down for a year of maintaining waist and trimming off the bleached hair?

Thanks for reading and any advice you have to give. You can see pics of my hair in my album from July onward to see how the fading ends up.

[Backliteyes]

You could try a protein treatment to try and fill in the holes in your hair. Maybe it will help the hair hold on to the henna better. Protein treatments are only temporary though, so you'd have to keep at it every 6-8 weeks. I'm not certain this will work, but it's worth a try. Since your hair is porous from the bleach it will only help anyway.

[fawn]

I did a cassia before I dyed and it certainly made the dye take better. But I also used a pre=color protein filler in between, they are cheap, try sally's online

[rogue_psyche]

Thanks for the suggestions. I already have a lot of protein in my routine. I use GVP's K-Pak knockoff weekly unless I think I don't need it. It really helps with my stretchy ends but I haven't noticed any difference in the henna fade.

[fawn]

Thanks for the suggestions. I already have a lot of protein in my routine. I use GVP's K-Pak knockoff weekly unless I think I don't need it. It really helps with my stretchy ends but I haven't noticed any difference in the henna fade.


A protein 'filler' is used immediately before coloring, it evens out the porosity so that you can have even uptake of dye. It is a special liquid form of protein that you do not wash out.

It is also comming for colorists to do a clear semi-permanent (like I said, you could use cassia)to fill in the cuticle somewhat before adding a color to extra-porous or damaged hair, this also allows for more even uptake during coloring.

[rogue_psyche]

A protein 'filler' is used immediately before coloring, it evens out the porosity so that you can have even uptake of dye. It is a special liquid form of protein that you do not wash out.

It is also comming for colorists to do a clear semi-permanent (like I said, you could use cassia)to fill in the cuticle somewhat before adding a color to extra-porous or damaged hair, this also allows for more even uptake during coloring.

I thought protein filler was the same as a protein treatment. :o I'll try it next henna application. Since you don't rinse it out do I put in my hair and then immediately henna? Or should I wait for some reason?

[rogue_psyche]

I uploaded some more pics so you can see what I'm talking about clearer. You can see it all on one page here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/45051890@N08/sets/72157622872950096/detail/

Roughly 3 months after my first henna. - http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=4363&pictureid=56185 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=4363&pictureid=56185)
Morning after my second henna. - http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=4363&pictureid=56186 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=4363&pictureid=56186)
Four days after my second henna. - http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=4363&pictureid=56187 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=4363&pictureid=56187)
About 25 days after my second henna. - http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=4363&pictureid=56188 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=4363&pictureid=56188)
About three months after my second henna. - http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=4363&pictureid=56189 (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=4363&pictureid=56189)It actually kind of looks like the oxidation reverses, and then fades.

[rach]

for the first week resist as much as you can to wash you hair while the henna is settling into you hair shafts (it's venerable to washing out to a degree at this time) .
friend of mine had very Porous hair and she washed it every day (her hair gets very greasy) which was a bit of a battle to get it to hold but we've won the battle now.... after a few applications. she's happy now because nothing would hold (chemical dyes) onto her hair without it looking almost gray like.....

[rogue_psyche]

for the first week resist as much as you can to wash you hair while the henna is settling into you hair shafts (it's venerable to washing out to a degree at this time) .
friend of mine had very Porous hair and she washed it every day (her hair gets very greasy) which was a bit of a battle to get it to hold but we've won the battle now.... after a few applications. she's happy now because nothing would hold (chemical dyes) onto her hair without it looking almost gray like.....

So for now it looks like stocking up, using a protein filler, applying more frequently, maximizing dye release, and not washing for week one is going to be my best bet. Luckily I'm not going back to school until fall 2010 so I'll have the better part of the year to be high maintenance.

This what Mehandi customer service said:

Unfortunately, the problem is that there is not enough protein for the henna to bind with. There is no remedy for this that I know of, except growing out the damaged hair. I would also suggest that you post your questions on the Henna for Hair forum.

[Isilme]

Ok, I also had this problem. What I did was that I braided my hair and hennaed only the braid a couple of times. It evens out over time the more you henna and with every trim there was less damaged hair left. Just hang in there and henna a braid sometimes;) It will get better.

[rogue_psyche]

Ok, I also had this problem. What I did was that I braided my hair and hennaed only the braid a couple of times. It evens out over time the more you henna and with every trim there was less damaged hair left. Just hang in there and henna a braid sometimes;) It will get better.

It is nice to hear from someone who also had this issue. I was beginning to feel like some sort of anomaly. What crop of henna do you use? I know your sig pic is mixed with veggie dye but I'd like to get my color near yours and entertain the notion of using manic panic from time to time. Do you get better results with the unlifted roots when you mix the manic panic in your henna mix? My bleached bits drink up manic panic very well, but it washes right out of my unlifted roots, which is the opposite problem from the henna.

[Isilme]

I just use a henna I buy in health food stores here. It's pure and gives a good stain but isn't as finely sifted as BAQ henna.
My ends take special effects well, no matter how I use it, my roots take it as well but doesn't hold on to it for as long. Also, I found that using regular hair dye, the kind that washes out in 8 washes gives me a nicer result than Special effects. Gives the hair a prettier shine.
I have never used manic panic as it's almost impossible to get my hands on here in sweden, I use Special Effects (often called SPFX here on the boards) in a shade called blood red.
I don't know how you use the dye, but try to have it in your hair for as long as possible, I usually go for two hours.

[Gothic Lolita]

for the first week resist as much as you can to wash you hair while the henna is settling into you hair shafts (it's venerable to washing out to a degree at this time) .
friend of mine had very Porous hair and she washed it every day (her hair gets very greasy) which was a bit of a battle to get it to hold but we've won the battle now.... after a few applications. she's happy now because nothing would hold (chemical dyes) onto her hair without it looking almost gray like.....


Thank you for bringing this up. My henna glosses are very infrequent, but htey fade exmtremly and I've wondered whether my washing frequency is one of the culprits (I belive that there's more than one). I usually wash 3-4 times a week, so normally 2 days after the application. My roots are greasy by then, because I use a very rich conditioner in my gloss and it is hell to use it without, because my hair tangles so badly. When would you suggest to wash first? I'm planning on hennaing soon again and hopefully a helpful tipp might stop the fading somewhat.

I'm also interested in the cassia pre-treatment. Any theories why first doing a cassia application makes the henna more permanent?

Sorry for hijacking this thread....

[rach]

Thank you for bringing this up. My henna glosses are very infrequent, but htey fade exmtremly and I've wondered whether my washing frequency is one of the culprits (I belive that there's more than one). I usually wash 3-4 times a week, so normally 2 days after the application. My roots are greasy by then, because I use a very rich conditioner in my gloss and it is hell to use it without, because my hair tangles so badly. When would you suggest to wash first? I'm planning on hennaing soon again and hopefully a helpful tipp might stop the fading somewhat.

I'm also interested in the cassia pre-treatment. Any theories why first doing a cassia application makes the henna more permanent?

Sorry for hijacking this thread....
might be worth having a very light cheap conditioner which might help extend how long you can resist washing .

Also an ACV rinse may help close up the hair shafts more (which really silks up your hair) and hold henna better during the oxidizing period as an idea?

As for cassia, pass- i honestly don't know how that would work to help with the henna.
there's no harm if you try, it's still good for your hair.

[Gothic Lolita]

I already do ACV rinses everytime I wash and especially after hennaing. I also just CO the first wash after henna, because I hope that the tensides aren't as harsh as in normal shampoo (though Idilute my shampoo).

I wonder if a rinse with dissolved Baking Soda would make to colour take better. My theory behind this is that alkaline hings open the cuticle. In some treatments, an alkaline ingredient helps the hair to absorb moisture/oils/etc better. Maybe an open cuticle would also absorb more henna? Of course you'd need to follow after rinsing the henna out with something acidic. I already have a bit of citirc acid in my gloss.

[rach]

sounds like a good plan.

[Darkhorse1]

I don't henna, but your hair looks very similar to mine when I used Sun-In, which has peroxide in it. I hated the results and took years to grow it out and trim it off.

I would perhaps do some oiling and let your hair settle before doing any more coloring. If you work outdoors/in the sun, make sure you cover your ends. That would mean with an SPF buff. I've learned a lot about fading color as I work outdoors and my hair was almost bleached a yucky reddish color before I had my first semi-permanent color (to cover gray etc).

Best of luck!

[rogue_psyche]

Sorry for hijacking this thread....

Apologies accepted, as long as you report back here with your results. ;)

Your hair has also gotten very long since I last saw your siggy. The red is very lovely too.


I don't henna, but your hair looks very similar to mine when I used Sun-In, which has peroxide in it. I hated the results and took years to grow it out and trim it off.

I would perhaps do some oiling and let your hair settle before doing any more coloring. If you work outdoors/in the sun, make sure you cover your ends. That would mean with an SPF buff. I've learned a lot about fading color as I work outdoors and my hair was almost bleached a yucky reddish color before I had my first semi-permanent color (to cover gray etc).

Best of luck!

I understand why the amount of porosity I'm reporting could be a sign that my hair is in great distress. Which is partly true, but I am a believer that henna has helped, rather than hindered me in growing out my bleached hair. I've also decided on switching to maintain-mode in 2010, which means focusing on trims and getting my color more presentable. I definitely will continue to baby my hair, though!

[Darkhorse1]

Oh yes--I forgot that henna does repair/help damaged hair by moisturizing. I know I read that from Nightshade as I wanted to learn more about henna.

I just was curious if you worked outside as I'm not sure if henna will fade in exposure to sunlight like anything else.

Best of luck! :)

[piratejenny23]

hi,
i don't have much experience with henna but i i do occasionally dye my brown hair a mahogany brown for red highlights. some time ago i bought
"john frieda radiant red color envy daily sealer"
i wasn't using it regularly but about a week ago i tried it and found that it makes my crunchy ends very smooth, instantly makes my color more vibrant and sparkly, and although it does not claim to be a detangler, it does the best job at that of any product i have ever used!

the tube reads:
"this formula seals damaged, porous areas of hair"
and claims to keep your red from fading.

i don't know if you're looking for an all-natural route, but the word "porous" in your title caught my eye...
good luck! :)

[Gothic Lolita]

I don't know whether the John Frieda stuff has cones in it, but I know that some of our members use very coney conditioners to get their glosses to stay. For me a gloss is quite moisturizing because of all the stuff I throw in there, so it could work without drying the hair out. But I'd only use a coney condish after hennaing, not before, in order to get the best dye uptake.

[rogue_psyche]

Oh yes--I forgot that henna does repair/help damaged hair by moisturizing. I know I read that from Nightshade as I wanted to learn more about henna.

I just was curious if you worked outside as I'm not sure if henna will fade in exposure to sunlight like anything else.

Best of luck! :)

I'm sorry, I forgot that I told the henna for hair forum (but not LHC) that I don't spend very much time outside, except in the spring and summer. What hair sunscreen do you use?

Thanks for the advice. :flower:


hi,
i don't have much experience with henna but i i do occasionally dye my brown hair a mahogany brown for red highlights. some time ago i bought
"john frieda radiant red color envy daily sealer"
i wasn't using it regularly but about a week ago i tried it and found that it makes my crunchy ends very smooth, instantly makes my color more vibrant and sparkly, and although it does not claim to be a detangler, it does the best job at that of any product i have ever used!


I don't know whether the John Frieda stuff has cones in it, but I know that some of our members use very coney conditioners to get their glosses to stay. For me a gloss is quite moisturizing because of all the stuff I throw in there, so it could work without drying the hair out. But I'd only use a coney condish after hennaing, not before, in order to get the best dye uptake.

It is something to consider if the other stuff I try doesn't work, or at least the concept behind it which seems to be cones and sunscreen. I'll definitely will use cones after I rinse my henna, if only once since my parent's shampoo has cones. I don't want to have to clarify any time after a henna.

[jel]

I would just keep on hennaing the length. It will bond more and more with the hair shaft, making it thicker and less porous in the process.

I had the same problem when I first start hennaing. My hair was fried from using home colourants over a number of years, so the first two or three hennas kept fading on me. It probably didn't help that I was using the Lush Caca Rouge, which although staining well, contains a lot of cocoa butter. Oils or butters in that quantity prevent the bonding of lawsone molecules to the hair shaft.

I kept at it, though, and switched to BAQ (and I think my first batch was actually Yemeni). After only a couple of full-head application of that, it worked! Since then I mostly just do roots-only applications, but every so often I pull it down the length, mixed with some conditioner.

Regarding the Yemeni crops of 2009 vs 2010, maybe you should pm Henna Sooq? She's very helpful and knowledgeable.

[rogue_psyche]

I would just keep on hennaing the length. It will bond more and more with the hair shaft, making it thicker and less porous in the process.

That's what really seems to be the solution. I stocked up on yemeni 2009 henna so even if I'm broke for the next few months I can still have my henna fix. Washing less and not using heat with deep treatments slow the fade. It makes me a little sad when I find the conditioner I put in my hair has turned orange.

[Heidi_234]

rogue_psyche, what's your mix?

[rogue_psyche]

1st henna: straight lemon
2nd Henna: dilluted lemon juice
3rd Henna: same henna as second, frozen and thawed, with conditioner in it.
4th Henna: grapefruit juice, lemon juice, red wine, and some berry zinger tea. The mix was mostly juice, though.

I got the best results from the last henna, but I'm also finally starting to build upon existing henna to get a darker, richer stain. I also switched to Yemen 2009 and really love it.

[Heidi_234]

Well, your last successful result might go along with my experience - henna fades from my absolutely virgin roots if the mix is not acidic enough. You had plenty of acidity in the last mix. Funny, I just wrote about it in another thread. Not a single time I forgot to add something acidic that the henna didn't fade.

Your tap water might be more alkaline too, so when you wash your hair, along with the porosity, it might aid the fading. It's just a speculation though. Henna does fades, but after a very long while (unlike chem dyes).

[rogue_psyche]

Well, your last successful result might go along with my experience - henna fades from my absolutely virgin roots if the mix is not acidic enough. You had plenty of acidity in the last mix. Funny, I just wrote about it in another thread. Not a single time I forgot to add something acidic that the henna didn't fade.

Your tap water might be more alkaline too, so when you wash your hair, along with the porosity, it might aid the fading. It's just a speculation though. Henna does fades, but after a very long while (unlike chem dyes).

It just goes to show that the acid is as important as Henna for Hair says. As far as henna's permanence goes, it beats chem dye even with my porous hair. I recall the one time I went for a salon coloring with red hair the results were not so good on my porous ends and it became a selling point for a chop. If only I knew then what I know now...

Oh well. At least I won't have to worry about going too dark any time soon. :shrug:

[Heidi_234]

It just goes to show that the acid is as important as Henna for Hair says. As far as henna's permanence goes, it beats chem dye even with my porous hair. I recall the one time I went for a salon coloring with red hair the results were not so good on my porous ends and it became a selling point for a chop. If only I knew then what I know now...

Oh well. At least I won't have to worry about going too dark any time soon. :shrug:
Well, some people do find the acid unnecessary. My guess is that their water is not too alkaline to begin with. Since my tap water is hard, I used bottled water which said 7.5 pH - well above the 6 or 6 and something that hair and probably henna too love. I actually got the acid tip on H4H, and it proved to true in my case.

I hear you on the chem dyes. My most disastrous dye job was done at a salon - it faded completely literally in the following wash (I'm not kidding you!), and it fried my hair completely as well. Even box dyes didn't fry my hair as much. It was awful to grow out. :nono: