Another musing: henna versus manic panic?

[Freija]

First, I'm very sorry if this is in the wrong forum - it was a toss-up between this and the 'conventional products' area...

As possibly the least damaging form of chemical colour, I wondered how Manic Panic-type deposit-only dyes compare to henna as a deposit-only dye? Say, if I got a bright shade with henna over my natural colour (even if that shade wasn't the shade I wanted!), could I hope to achieve a similar tone/intensity of red with Manic Panic without prelightening? Or do chemical deposit-only dyes tend to show up less?

:)

[halo_tightens]

I don't have an answer to your entire question-- just one small aspect of it.

I've always found that deposit-only dyes never worked very well on virgin hair. If the hair has been previously chemically-treated in some way, then the color uptake is much better.

Henna, on the other hand, does great on virgin hair as well as previously-processed hair. SO, if I were going for vivid red color with no other considerations, I would choose henna.

Of course, there ARE lots of other considerations, including permanence, ease of use, and color selection. I just wanted to bring up that one point which has thwarted my attempts at deposit-only coloring more than once. :)

[Anje]

I don't have much experience with dyes either, but I'm under the impression Manic Panic and similar dyes don't tend to last terribly long. Maybe a couple weeks (though I had some green bangs that lasted a few months without any bleaching or coloring beforehand). Lack of permanence might be a good thing, though, if you feel like playing around with color.

[Freija]

Might lifting the cuticle first - with baking soda, perhaps - be a not-too-damaging means of getting more colour to stick? I really don't mind redyeing every few weeks/month at all, especially since Manic Panic dyes seem pretty easy-to-use and gentle. My main fears are orange glows from henna (I've got quite a cool, pale skintone) and destroying my hair/body/bunnies/planet with chemical dyes - though I would like a reasonably bold (henna-type bold) result, in direct sunlight at least. I'm fussy! :p

[Shermie Girl]

Okay, if you want permanent, gorgeous colour that will take a little time to build up to your perfect shade, if you are willing to do a good bit of work and can stand a bit of messiness, henna is probably your thing. It is good for hair, body, planet, bunnies. But, it is permanent! As in you will never rid yourself of it without scissors permanent.

Manic Panic, from what I have read is less permanent. And is removable, if done right. Yes, it is a chemical so not as good for hair, body, planet and bunnies. The colour is probably more consistent and predictable. And you wouldn't have to worry about orange glow in the sun. It is likely easier to work with and a lot less messy. I imagine the expense would be similar. If you want a longer lasting result with Manic Panic type dyes, I imagine that a quick soak in peroxide would probably do the trick and not do much damage.

In the end, you just need to weigh the pros and cons of each method against the result you want. :)

[Flynn]

I don't have much experience with dyes either, but I'm under the impression Manic Panic and similar dyes don't tend to last terribly long. Maybe a couple weeks (though I had some green bangs that lasted a few months without any bleaching or coloring beforehand). Lack of permanence might be a good thing, though, if you feel like playing around with color.

A Manic Panic Raven black test strand on my (medium to dark brown, virgin) hair was completely indistinguishable from the rest of my hair after four washes.





My impression is that, with henna, if you're uuhm-ing and aaah-ing, the answer is definitely no! ;p

[GlassEyes]

Manic panic is crap unless you have the patience to use the stuff overnight--that's what the owners do with it, from what I've read, if I remember correctly. Pity they don't put that on the bottle, if it is true.

You're better off going with special effects. It's lasted the longest time out of any the dyes I've used--that includes manic panic and pravana vivids. It's not nearly as long lasting as henna, but it is far easier to remove, and I love the colors they have.

Also, it sticks to virgin hair, but the suggestion to lift the cuticle with baking soda or a bit of peroxide is a good idea. Hell, you might be able to get away with mixing a -tiny- bit of henna in and getting conditioning benefits from it, similar to a gloss--I imagine it might not have much of an effect if you tried to lift that later, maybe a slight orange hue, but nothing even partially like a full henna. :) Or you could try mixing it with cassia--might work the same way, though cassia dries my hair out to a crazy degree.

Keep in mind, however, it will run in the shower for a while--it stops eventually, but I'd avoid white and other light colors for at least a week or more.

Also, henna will be orange, and if you use the manic/special effects reds, it'll be a more cool-toned red, unless you use Hi Octane Orange, which I'm not sure how THAT would turn out on natural hair other than blonde.

[Freija]

Manic panic is crap unless you have the patience to use the stuff overnight--that's what the owners do with it, from what I've read, if I remember correctly. Pity they don't put that on the bottle, if it is true.

You're better off going with special effects. It's lasted the longest time out of any the dyes I've used--that includes manic panic and pravana vivids. It's not nearly as long lasting as henna, but it is far easier to remove, and I love the colors they have.

Also, it sticks to virgin hair, but the suggestion to lift the cuticle with baking soda or a bit of peroxide is a good idea. Hell, you might be able to get away with mixing a -tiny- bit of henna in and getting conditioning benefits from it, similar to a gloss--I imagine it might not have much of an effect if you tried to lift that later, maybe a slight orange hue, but nothing even partially like a full henna. :) Or you could try mixing it with cassia--might work the same way, though cassia dries my hair out to a crazy degree.

Keep in mind, however, it will run in the shower for a while--it stops eventually, but I'd avoid white and other light colors for at least a week or more.

Also, henna will be orange, and if you use the manic/special effects reds, it'll be a more cool-toned red, unless you use Hi Octane Orange, which I'm not sure how THAT would turn out on natural hair other than blonde.

Yeah, I'm a bit unsure about jumping back into henna - having thought about it, I want to at least try out the sort of shade I'm going for with (removable!) dye first. I know MP/SFX dyes are still chemical dyes, but I don't think(?) they contain PPD or other really harsh chemicals, so it seems an okay compromise to make.

Last question - and thank you, everyone, for all your help! - is it just my strange computer screen or does SFX Blood Red (here (http://www.hairdyegallery.co.uk/sfx-bloodred.html), top row middle image) seem to be pretty much the same colour as MP Vampire Red (here (http://www.manicpanic.com/images2/bestofbest/vampred5.jpg)) over unbleached, presumably brown hair? If so, I think I'm sold!

[rach]

also everyones hair behaves differently to another and has more or less dye intake than others.
i've gained some good results in henna red while others have complained about in not being red enough. everyones different.

but yes if you unsure about henna don't do it. also thoes picture will be fresh colours of manic panic, they will fade.

[AutumnSky]

What about a "double process, so to speak? Henna, then after it's oxididized, run a jug of MP over it? I've done it on a couple of occasions, and loved the result. It doesn't last, so you'd have to re-MP frequently, and ditch your white towels....

Years ago, would mix MP with my conditioner, and use it every time I washed...helps the MP last longer, but the more frequent shower mess may not be your cup of tea.

[Shermie Girl]

If you are at all hesitant about henna, as Flynn said, don't do it. If you use henna, you go beyond the point of no return. With chem dyes, you have the hope of removal, if it isn't right for you.

The two different dyes look about the same. Either one would probably give you the colour you want. :)

[Fractalsofhair]

Manic Panic lasts very long on my virgin hair, but I do leave it on for 8+ hours when I do it. The reason it's not stated on the box(along with the fact you don't have to prelighten naturally blonde hair.) is so that people who want to try out a weird color won't leave it on in a color that can't be removed even with bleaching.(It lightens it, but not totally) I mean, most people with bright green hair change the color every few weeks. Also, it won't show up vividly on all but very light hair.

[Freija]

What about a "double process, so to speak? Henna, then after it's oxididized, run a jug of MP over it? I've done it on a couple of occasions, and loved the result. It doesn't last, so you'd have to re-MP frequently, and ditch your white towels....

Years ago, would mix MP with my conditioner, and use it every time I washed...helps the MP last longer, but the more frequent shower mess may not be your cup of tea.

That is a really, really good idea!

Thank you, everyone, for all your help. You're wonderful! I think I'm going to wait until Christmas when I've more time (and can splatter mud all over a bathroom to my heart's content) then strand-test henna like mad. It'll give me time to fade my current brown dye, too, to something close to my natural colour. And if it seems to be too warm, I'll use SFX over the top. Perfect! :)

[morguebabe]

deposit only won't work on virgin hair, unless you have blonde hair. Or only want the barest tint.
Feel free to browse my albums, I have SFX dye and henna pics.

[Freija]

deposit only won't work on virgin hair, unless you have blonde hair. Or only want the barest tint.
Feel free to browse my albums, I have SFX dye and henna pics.

Thank you - you have certainly had some amazing colours. I love the fire-engine red!

I'm okay with not getting a vivd result if it's over henna - which I know will be quite bright on my hair. I'd use it to tone down the warmth a bit, if I found I couldn't get as cool a red as I'd like from straight henna. :)

[GlassEyes]

deposit only won't work on virgin hair, unless you have blonde hair. Or only want the barest tint.
Feel free to browse my albums, I have SFX dye and henna pics.


Sorry, but that's not completely true. Red shows up just fine on darker hair--even my dark brown hair turned a noticeable burgundy red from Special Effects Blood Red--so much so, people commented.



Last question - and thank you, everyone, for all your help! - is it just my strange computer screen or does SFX Blood Red (here (http://www.hairdyegallery.co.uk/sfx-bloodred.html), top row middle image) seem to be pretty much the same colour as MP Vampire Red (here (http://www.manicpanic.com/images2/bestofbest/vampred5.jpg)) over unbleached, presumably brown hair? If so, I think I'm sold!

Yeah, they're similar shades, but Blood Red is stronger than the manic panic reds I've tried in the past.

Manic Panic lasts very long on my virgin hair, but I do leave it on for 8+ hours when I do it. The reason it's not stated on the box(along with the fact you don't have to prelighten naturally blonde hair.) is so that people who want to try out a weird color won't leave it on in a color that can't be removed even with bleaching.(It lightens it, but not totally) I mean, most people with bright green hair change the color every few weeks. Also, it won't show up vividly on all but very light hair.
Uh, where are you getting this information from? Most all deposit-only dyes can be stripped out of bleached hair, and even if people do change colors often, a lot of them bleach again, or continue to use the same color. :shrug: If this were true, Special Effects would follow similar rules/directions, and be a lot weaker.

[Fractalsofhair]

In terms of bleaching out manic panic totally. I tried to do it to my armpit hair, and although the dye did fade a bit, it turned into a grayish shade of blue. I tried a 40 volume bleach with about 5 applications before the hair ended up just totally breaking off. That was about a year ago. It never totally faded after about 6+ months after dying my hair. That was after about 10 applications for about 5-10 minutes each. When I tried to dye my hair after using manic panic in chunks of it, the 10 volume peroxide I used didn't lighten it at all. Of course, it didn't lighten my head hair much at all, so go figure! The color does fade, and eventually looks more like a toner than a true dye, but it never faded totally back to normal for me.

Perhaps I'm just a weird fluke with how manic panic likes to stick on my hair. Manic Panic and such are often used for Halloween type events, and people want them gone in a couple of weeks or so, at the most. I've known people to be upset when manic panic and such last for longer than 1 wash, so that could be why the directions are for such a short amount of time? I've noticed if I leave it in for only 30 minutes or so, it would start to fade within a week!