Wurly and Curly thread!!!

[GRU]

GRU, how long is your hair these days? I don't think we've seen a new picture in ages. :)

I've been maintaining as I'm still trimming off my pre-LHC damage. I just whacked off about three inches a couple weeks ago, and right now pulled straight I'm around butt crack length again.

Not sure how long I'll end up going... Right now I'm happy with the length (it's longer than it's ever been in my entire life) and just ever so thankful that I know how to take care of it properly these days (it's healthier than it's ever been in my entire life).

I'm still jealous of how your hair goes DOWN instead of OUT... my hair is as wide as I am, and I'm pretty darn chunky!

[DweamGoiL]

I guess I should check in as well on this thread. The picture below shows my hair back a few years, but it's basically the same. Here it's just finished air drying with minimal monoi oil to seal the ends, but no other manipulation or products:

http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae360/dweamgoil/Long%20Hair%202003%20to%20Now/jan3-2002LongHair_zps53c68f65.jpg (http://s987.photobucket.com/user/dweamgoil/media/Long%20Hair%202003%20to%20Now/jan3-2002LongHair_zps53c68f65.jpg.html)

Currently, my hair is mid-back length and not as long as the picture above.

[Upside Down]

Curly hair tangles. Period.

I don't have "second day hair" in the sense of curls that I can wear down -- my second day hair HAS to be put up, because the curls just do NOT work after the first day unless I detangle and wet/clump them again. Fortunately, I have a gazillion hairsticks now, and I can pop my hair up in under ten seconds. :D

I find that the longer it is it looks better for more days. i wear it down now for 4-5 days, even though I wear a low ponytail for work.
I just do some twists in front and it's good.

But when it was shorter, it would look bad on the second day.

As for tangling, yes, I agree, there is no escaping that. I've never met a curly person who has no problems with tangling :lol:

[MidnightSunlite]

It is so wonderful while you're washing your hair and while it's still wet that it so easy to finger comb and there isn't any tangles. But when that sucker start to dry is when those tangles start and makes me sad :(

Question, dunno if it has been answered already somewhere.. but most of my hair behaves and groups in curls (Dried hair and wet hair) but the rest is all of the place looking like frizz, it's like they rebel curls who don't want to group up with others. How can I fix that? Besides using rollers for that kind of curl (non heat of course.. they're the best lol make my hair super bouncy). And don't get me start on those hairline hairs.. they're so short it's nothing but frizz no matter what I do unless it's flat ironed or gel'd or hair sprayed or freshly wet.

[biogirl87]

Upside Down and MidnightSunlite, your comments/replies have prompted me to reply to this thread.

Upside Down, I do still have to detangle my hair regularly, but when I was combing my hair yesterday to detangle it I realized that when I was trying the curly girl method my hair became really knotted and probably would have become matted if I had waited any longer to detangle. Now that I have gone back to combing my hair at least once every day, my tangling problems have decreased quite a bit.

MindnightSunlite, I realize that this may be the weirdness of my hair, but I find my hair is harder to detangle when it's still wet (it seems easier to detangle when my hair is dry and if I encounter any problems, a bit of baby oil on the ends usually does the trick). unless I have a ton of conditioner in it (and it seems that the more conditioner I use in the shower, the more hairs I have coming out in the shower). It's almost like even though my hair is wavy it really wants to me to treat it like straight hair (and outside of summer months the only time I get frizz is when it's about to rain or when it's misting). This makes me think that my hair may have looser waves as it grows longer and if I trim away the layers in my hair.

[GRU]

Question, dunno if it has been answered already somewhere.. but most of my hair behaves and groups in curls (Dried hair and wet hair) but the rest is all of the place looking like frizz, it's like they rebel curls who don't want to group up with others. How can I fix that?

I brush or comb through my leave-in conditioner so that all of my hairs are alongside/clumped with other hairs. If you purposely clump them when wet and then don't touch them again, they have a better chance of staying in their clumped configuration.

[MandyBeth]

My daughter's hair does not exist in day two. It's marginally better with the massive, to elbows chop, but well she's a kid and gets into everything. Add in the extremely tight curls, as in tighter than a pencil, tangles are guaranteed even put up. Without combing out daily, her hair will start to loc up. Which some princess of headbanging does not like. John 5 is awesome, not Rob Zombie, duh.

So, daily life for her curls

Wash in am. She still just has too much density in her hair for her to manage on her own, and combine with major washing issues - screw it, she'll at least get her hair damp in the shower so I call that progress enough. Basics are unbraiding her sleep braid, soaking her curls, diluted CO wash over full head, thoroughly brush with TT until there are no tangles, heavier conditioner on her very tangle prone areas, rinse, acidic rinse as someone doesn't like the vinegar smell, then work in a good Daddy sized painful of the cheap Suave conditioner of the week, then some sweet almond oil mushed with cocoa and shea butter. Wrap in turbie towel however it will fit.

Remove now soaked to dripping towel.

Carefully straightened any sections that are going haywire. Scrunch in a bit more oil on the bottom 12" or so.

Pin towel cape on kid. Feed kid. Let her lay on her stomach in front of the television while her brothers get moving.

Braid or otherwise get her hair contained in some form while her brothers eat.

At night, undo the confinement. Kid takes shower, I add very dilute conditioner, comb the tangles out. Since her hair isn't fully soaked, it usually is at barely damp in a half hour. Gets story time from Daddy or big brothers. I divide her hair in three sections and loosely braid at night. It doesn't need a tie on the end

So, during the week for sure and usually the weekends, her hair is up and semi to kind of contained. But, at 8 1/2, things like climbing trees and playing in mud are important, so the hair is out of her way. Mostly. She likes her hair, it's princess of headbanging worthy and it's really awesome like Dr River Song's hair and it's not frizzy and she doesn't want short hair, nor do I want to deal with hyper curly short hair or the dramatic hissy fits she'd likely be throwing. I have two 16 year olds and a 12 year old. I have enough melodrama.

Turn her hair loose, yeah, it does get length as it's been near classic, but it loves to go out. So it's a big, curly, fluffy, soft cloud of mostly black hair with some blue and teal in there. She likes it.

[MandyBeth]

Yep. As I put in the post, it's much harder for most curlies to just leave their hair "as is" until it dries. Not only does this sometimes lead to the LOSS of curl pattern, but in the end it may lead to hair damage as they try to wash or detangle hair that has no product in it.

The goal is to get a picture of your hair with it's natural curl pattern, minimally altered by product. Ie, no 3cs taking pictures with so much gel in their hair that it looks like 2c. Because then things would just get confusing.

My hair is a) short and b) lives to change it's naughty mind. One day, it's a 2b, three days later, exact same care, nah, it likes going 3c, week later, curl, what curl, it's hardcore 1a. I don't have a hair type other than :P

Now, if I can ever get a picture of the back of my daughter's head with her hair loose and untouched, I'll submit. But seeing as I don't have any in 2 1/2 years without identifiers, and she's a minor with still no "official" hair typing other than lots of crazy tight curls, well yeah. Plus, her curls are well past the 3c tight spirals, but her hair does spiral, it's not Z shape. Nor does black hair show the tight curls that we'll, too dark.

[Aingeal]

Plopping is my new best friend. I end up with great clumping, no crunchies, and my hair stays curly with less frizz. Yay!

[CurlyCap]

I love the fall.

The humidity and temperature is changing so rapidly that none of my go-to hair concoctions work and I have to make it up on a day by day basis.

Fun.

Awesome hair interspersed with crimes against humanity....

[09robiha]

grrr, still finding it really hard to get down with wearing my hair curly again! I don't know what has happened but its just not the same as before, I think my hair is too heavy for decently curly hair now!

[Upside Down]

Upside Down and MidnightSunlite, your comments/replies have prompted me to reply to this thread.

Upside Down, I do still have to detangle my hair regularly, but when I was combing my hair yesterday to detangle it I realized that when I was trying the curly girl method my hair became really knotted and probably would have become matted if I had waited any longer to detangle. Now that I have gone back to combing my hair at least once every day, my tangling problems have decreased quite a bit.

MindnightSunlite, I realize that this may be the weirdness of my hair, but I find my hair is harder to detangle when it's still wet (it seems easier to detangle when my hair is dry and if I encounter any problems, a bit of baby oil on the ends usually does the trick). unless I have a ton of conditioner in it (and it seems that the more conditioner I use in the shower, the more hairs I have coming out in the shower). It's almost like even though my hair is wavy it really wants to me to treat it like straight hair (and outside of summer months the only time I get frizz is when it's about to rain or when it's misting). This makes me think that my hair may have looser waves as it grows longer and if I trim away the layers in my hair.


Ah yes it is the choice for me too - no tangles OR curls. Or you coul do what Gru does - wet your hair, detangle and re- curl.


My hair is easier to comb out when wet with lots of conditioner, but Ive read a lot on boards here about people who detangle when dry

[MandyBeth]

I love the fall.

The humidity and temperature is changing so rapidly that none of my go-to hair concoctions work and I have to make it up on a day by day basis.

Fun.

Awesome hair interspersed with crimes against humanity....

Hehehe. Wait until it's cold and you want to try to wear a hood.

Since I've yet to find a hat that stay on some child's head. The loose curly ends compress like springs, then laugh the hat off.

Granted, finding a hood that holds all of the hair.....

Shush your mouth GRU.

[GRU]

Shush your mouth GRU.

I didn't say anything..... :whistle:

[MandyBeth]

I didn't say anything..... :whistle:

Preemptive warning. You have a teenager, you should know all about those.

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=79085

For those who don't know the now two year old back story on a certain child and the fun of covering her crazy curls.

[Quixii]

I tried on this gorgeous jacket when I was in Scotland, which had this huge hood that actually fit all my hair, even when bunned. It was amazing and I loved it. But I didn't get it because I wanted the next size up so I could wear thicker clothes underneath. :wail:

[CurlyCap]

Hehehe. Wait until it's cold and you want to try to wear a hood.

One can come to an uneasy truce with hats/hoods.

The problem is, if you want to wear a hat, you must WEAR THE HAT ALL DAY. No breaks. No relief. You must really love that hat.

It is an evil bargain.

[leslissocool]

Preemptive warning. You have a teenager, you should know all about those.

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=79085

For those who don't know the now two year old back story on a certain child and the fun of covering her crazy curls.



LOL!!!


I have one kid that will wear anything, even my purse, as a hat. And one that will not for the love of what's Holly have a hat. He's being trained to use a damn hoodie of his snow jacket.


The visual of the curls projecting the hat off is priceless :lol:.

[CurlyCap]

Need some packing advice:

I'm about to go on a TON of business trips (~30) and want to avoid the hassle of checking my baggage.

I've found some great garment bags (Yay), but now I'm worried about my hair (like a good LHC person). I can't think of how I can carry enough conditioner to condition and style my hair for 3 days at a time in a carry-on format. And YES, I use a LOT of conditioner. I'd need a bottle the size of a family value Suave during that time, plus some oil/butters/concoctions.

Most places are not convenient to a shop to buy more. Plus I'll be flying in late usually, so a fortuitous shop will prolly be closed.

I need to look absolutely polished for these meetings, so I can't just do the typical Day 2 bun.

Any ideas?

[GRU]

Need some packing advice:

I'm about to go on a TON of business trips (~30) and want to avoid the hassle of checking my baggage.

I've found some great garment bags (Yay), but now I'm worried about my hair (like a good LHC person). I can't think of how I can carry enough conditioner to condition and style my hair for 3 days at a time in a carry-on format. And YES, I use a LOT of conditioner. I'd need a bottle the size of a family value Suave during that time, plus some oil/butters/concoctions.

Most places are not convenient to a shop to buy more. Plus I'll be flying in late usually, so a fortuitous shop will prolly be closed.

I need to look absolutely polished for these meetings, so I can't just do the typical Day 2 bun.

Any ideas?

How about bar/solid conditioner (http://www.etsy.com/transaction/97191259)?

[Quixii]

Oof, that's a tough one. :( Maybe you can come up with some new bun that looks very polished? Or else devote all of your allotted liquids to conditioner. Or some combination of that and buying conditioner when you arrive. Like if you wash that night you come in with what you brought, then the next day you could stop by a shop when it's open.

[CurlyCap]

How about bar/solid conditioner (http://www.etsy.com/transaction/97191259)?

This...is brilliant.

And perfect.

Has anyone tried any of these and had good curl-happiness? Brand recommendations? (I'll also head off and do a search. :D )

[MandyBeth]

Drive?

We just pack enough for one day, then buy there. I'd start with heavily oiled hair during the flight. Plane air is dry. You'll pay more, but don't most hotels have a "store" that sells basics? Or am I staying at too nice of places?

If you won't be charged for checked bags, pack a hair goop bag? We did that for international travel. It's not the most convenient, but it works.

Mail the goop to the hotel? We did that to DC, easier than wrangling fluffy outfits on planes.

For acidic rinses, get citric acid powder.


The solid conditioner might work. I'm thinking you'd ruffle up your hair too much. Could also try a solid lotion bar that's oil and beeswax based.

Find LHC people in the area to help get you supplies?

What about a heavy conditioner you could dilute?

[CurlyCap]

Drive?

We just pack enough for one day, then buy there. I'd start with heavily oiled hair during the flight. Plane air is dry. You'll pay more, but don't most hotels have a "store" that sells basics? Or am I staying at too nice of places?

If you won't be charged for checked bags, pack a hair goop bag? We did that for international travel. It's not the most convenient, but it works.

Mail the goop to the hotel? We did that to DC, easier than wrangling fluffy outfits on planes.

For acidic rinses, get citric acid powder.


The solid conditioner might work. I'm thinking you'd ruffle up your hair too much. Could also try a solid lotion bar that's oil and beeswax based.

Find LHC people in the area to help get you supplies?

What about a heavy conditioner you could dilute?

So here's the gig:
Day 1: Land in the evening. Get to hotel. Put on evening wear and full hair and makeup and suck up to people. Sleep.
Day 2: Get up. Apply suit, do full hair and makeup. Suck up. Take people out to dinner. Still look flawless (which is gonna be a learning curve cause HOW?!).
Day 3: Wake up. Suit 2, hair/makeup, suckage, depart in early evening.
If things go well, repeat one more day.

I have minimal skin care needs (thankfully), so I just need to focus on satiating the curly monster.

Yes, MandyBeth, you are thinking faaaaaar too nice. XD

Lol. For the bar, I wasn't even thinking of using it as a bar. I was just gonna wack off a piece, shove it in a tupperware of hot water and make diluted conditioner!

Oils/butters are super compact and go a long way.

Citric acid: Got some. Prefer ACV, but needs must.

I have never met a "heavy" conditioner. Coney, yes. But not really anything to heavy for my hair. Open to brand suggestions I could experiment with before Hell Season starts.

I'm avoiding checked bags because of the time involved in claiming them, not because of the cost.

Still thinking....

[MandyBeth]

Have you tried the Biolage Conditioning Balm? Or the Sally's version. That's what I use on minion in the tangle prone areas.

Hrm, I don't know other than solid conditioner or buying there. Again, I probably am hotel spoiled, but they've had conditioner in the provided stuff.

For the solid to melt, I'd try a grater or vegetable peeler. Easier to melt.

[magfish]

Hey all! New to the LHC, but I've been CG since Oct of last year - wow, one whole year already, it sure went fast! I cut my hair last October just before going CG from APL to chin length (an awful inverted bob where my ringlets made me look like a chihuahua) and am currently hanging out with my longest layers between shoulder/apl length. I got a cut in August at a curly-salon and love it, except, you know, now I've got short layers. -sigh- On the quest to BSL when curly (which I'm assuming is closer to waist length stretched) but really any length makes me happy these days!

Anyways just thought I'd say hi since it feels weird stopping into a thread 700+ pages late, but LHC hasn't let people register for a while so although I've stalked a lot I'm now finally here.

Basically..... hi all! :)

[Neecola]

Welcome magfish! I'm hovering just above APL curly, growing from about 3" of hair which was very silly looking for quite some time :laugh:

You should join us in the Shoulder to APL thread (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=33961&page=701)

[arelrios]

Hi guys,

Maybe you can give me your opinion about this: I did a protein treatment on the weekend (gelatin+conditioner+honey+olive-oil)... after I co-wash, I applied the mix.
Waited like 30-40 min, rinse and applied Moroccan oil hair mask... when I rinsed it out... wow!! my hair was so soft and "calm" I just couldn't believe it!

I can say it was flat at the roots (barely any frizz). During the day, my hair had this type of shape (http://www.pinterest.com/pin/26880928998479597/) and by the end of the day, it was more straight and the ends had this soft wurly shape... beautiful and shiny!

Anyway, yesterday I cowashed again, and even when I got a little more frizz, my hair still behaved quiet nicely... but I noticed that it is more difficult to encourage the waves (if any) now... Does this means my hair doesn't want/like protein? Or the protein has nothing to do with the lack of waves/straighter hair?


Let me know your thoughts :)

[GRU]

Let me know your thoughts :)

I'd be more concerned with the Moroccan oil hair mask.... did you check the ingredients? I never seem to find anything Moroccan without 'cones.

[arelrios]

I'd be more concerned with the Moroccan oil hair mask.... did you check the ingredients? I never seem to find anything Moroccan without 'cones.

I don't remember the ingredients by heart.... but remember checking them and not seeing cones.... I might be wrong.

[arelrios]

I don't remember the ingredients by heart.... but remember checking them and not seeing cones.... I might be wrong.

Here are the ingredients: Water Deionised (Aqua) Cetearyl Alcohol & Behentrimonium Methosulfate Cerearyl Alcohol (CS90) Canola Oil Cetearyl Alcohol and Cetearetg-20 Shea Butter Hydrolyzed Vegetable Protein PG-Propyl Silanetriol (proposed) Argania Spinoza Kernel Oil (Argan oil) Butylene Glicol Acetamide Mea Steareth-2 Caryocar Brasillense Fruit Oil Fragrance (Supplement) Peg 60 Almond Glicerides DMDMH Citric Acid D&C Red No 17 D&C Yellow No.11.

[GRU]

Some people have trouble getting butters (shea, cocoa, etc.) out with just CO-washing. Could be some build-up from that?

For encouraging waves and curls, the more moisture, the better -- I would try an SMT or similar to see if you notice a difference.

[Marron]

I don't like my curls. Still I try to avoid heat as I want it to grow. I try straightening my hair by wrapping it into tight buns or big rollers.
This is the result after waking up in the morning:

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h346/sewing-sue/haare14.jpg

After brushing it it looks like this:

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h346/sewing-sue/d9f90037-2574-4204-b09b-0fe9f6f080f5.jpg

I think I like the big curls better than the brushed "straight" hair. But my hair curled back within a few moments, so brushing it was ok. I think I'll try just to finger comb it next time.

[Chamomile betty]

Marron, I love your curls. So big and full!

[Marron]

Thank you, Chamomile betty :)

[arelrios]

Some people have trouble getting butters (shea, cocoa, etc.) out with just CO-washing. Could be some build-up from that?

For encouraging waves and curls, the more moisture, the better -- I would try an SMT or similar to see if you notice a difference.

Thanks Gru. I clarified my hair on Saturday and was surprised of the amount of volume and curl formation after the wash:) Also, it was really, really shiny... :)


Sunday wasn't that great (need to learn how to style my hair for bed) ... and today is up in a side way french braid ... will continue experimenting... :):)

[Chamomile betty]

Your welcome.

arelrios, do you pineapple? Basically it's your hair pulled through a pony with the second loop not pulled all the way through. At least that's how I do it. Seems to give me a bit more volume up top.

[arelrios]

Your welcome.

arelrios, do you pineapple? Basically it's your hair pulled through a pony with the second loop not pulled all the way through. At least that's how I do it. Seems to give me a bit more volume up top.

Nope... i don't do anything to my hair for bed... sometimes I just do a English braid and that's all... will have to try the pineapple thing ...

[HazelnutCurls]

Hello fellow curlies and wurlies!!

I have been lurking this thread for a while and admiring all of your gorgeous hairs! :o Curly and wavy hair is just so beautiful and I've always loved my hair, despite how difficult/tangly it could be sometimes!!!

I know I'm REALLY late but I'd like to join the LHC curly/wurly club. I thought I would post a little about my hair journey and photos.

I used to be a long haired curly before I ever found LHC. Mostly, I had long hair out of laziness to cut it! lol, but then I fell in love with the length. Long curly hair is so unique.

In 2009 I started wanting to take better care of my hair so I found Naturally Curly forum and learned lots of useful info that helped me take care of my curls. (A big shoutout to GRU! I recognise you from NC forum. You were my biggest hair crush there! So happy to see you over here. ^.^) I learned the CO method and plopping, and I also learned the ouidad techniue of curly hair styling from going to a curly hair salon where I live. I found my favorite hair product ever: Kinky Curly Knot Today!! <3 The longest my hair ever got was a little bit past waist length (not sure if it has a name).

Here is my hair at it's longest (taken during my engagement photo:
http://s29.postimg.org/4lq58icfb/DAV_7045.jpg


Here are 2 more.
http://s29.postimg.org/szofg59if/SAM_0062.jpg
http://s29.postimg.org/7v95sppwn/SAM_0404.jpg
Sorry for posting so many, I hope no one minds! :oops:


This is one from my wedding day, 1/27/2013. I got a lot of highlights put in (Which I GREATLY regret!!!! I'm now growing them out), which is why my hair looks lighter.
http://s30.postimg.org/786pqt301/DAV_2784.jpg

to be continued in next post

[HazelnutCurls]

And now comes the sad part of my story.....
I was a very very stupid person and I became depressed because of weight gain and stress in my college degree... so one day that I was feeling particularly bad/stressed, I grabbed a pair of kitchen scissors and chopped off all my beautiful hair.:wail: My husband was very sad about it as well.

It was really a split second decision that gave me momentary relief, but I have been regretting it ever since.

What I was left with was chin length, badly cut, chemical-damaged, dry frizzy hair in a color I don't feel suits me at all:
http://s29.postimg.org/ompvxq0rr/IMAG1911.jpg

The horrible chop occurred in march 2013, and now I'm in a better place. I've managed to lose 30 lbs and feel less tired, I changed my major, and I'm taking better care of my hair now (And thus I joined LHC to learn how to regrow my hair beautifully long the healthy way;))

Here is my hair as of a few weeks ago (It doesn't ALWAYS look this nice, it was a good hair day):
http://s29.postimg.org/4tidircrr/SAM_1654.jpg
http://s29.postimg.org/bswfi4cpz/SAM_1649.jpg


And now one with my hair up, sadly it's being held up with an elastic band, which I recently learned is terrible! I'd like to learn more methods of putting my hair up without damaging it, but I think it might still be too short.
http://s29.postimg.org/8nbtrwu3r/SAM_1703.jpg

Happy to be here and I look forward to being a part of this forum and learning from all you experienced curlies and wurlies. :)

[HazelnutCurls]

Also, if someone wouldn't mind hair typing me I would appreciate it!! :)

[Aingeal]

Hazelnut, you have such beautiful curls! I'm sorry to hear about your troubles but glad things are better!

[HazelnutCurls]

Hazelnut, you have such beautiful curls! I'm sorry to hear about your troubles but glad things are better!

Thank you, Aingeal!!!
Your curls are SO lovely as well! :heart:

[lapushka]

Also, if someone wouldn't mind hair typing me I would appreciate it!! :)

Well I'm a 2 and 3s are a little out of my comfort zone for typing, but I'd say you're well past 3a & 3b, and might even be a 3c.

[Symphony]

HazelnutCurls, your hair is sooooo beautiful! Even your short hair now! Your first picture is an inspiration because that is about the length I want to get my hair to... I literally gasped and whispered "It IS possible...". We are happy to have you and I will be cheering you on!

[Quixii]

HazelnutCurls, your hair is so beautiful!

[Wildcat Diva]

Hazelnut, WOW! Such pretty hair. You can grow it out again. I look at your hair and I think Flexi-8 to hold it up right now.

Glad you are here!

[HazelnutCurls]

Thank you for the sweet comments, Symphony, Quixii, and Wildcat!

I am very interested in the flexi-8, I just looked at images of it and it looks so pretty and old-fashioned! Do the beads get caught in your hair though?

[Wildcat Diva]

I have to be very careful with inserting my flexis. I have had a hair get caught here and there, but nothing too bad.

You could probably do some kind of twist, maybe a tails up for now.

[CurlyCap]

Hazelnut, I'd say 3b. 3a curls are about the size of sidewalk chalk, 3c curls are the size of pencils. 3b curls are the diameter of sharpies, which seems to fit you. However, this system doesn't say much about repetitions per inch (bc don't think anybody but us curlies think about it), and I'd say your on the higher end of repetitions per inch. Of course, I don't know how you styled your hair for these pics. Do you swirl or twist your curls before they dried? That can make them seem more uniformly curly or to have more curls per inch.

As for flexis, I'm not a fan (mostly 3b with a 3c canopy and nape). Even the stick part gets caught on things entering my hair, not to mention the beading etc. I need to stick to things with smooth surfaces. I'm a huge fan of Timberstone Turning hair sticks though. They come in brilliant colors and are smooth as silk. Ead G acrylic hairsticks are nice, cheaper alternative.

[GRU]

Welcome aboard the LHC train! Thank you for your sweet words! :blossom:

Like CurlyCap said, it's hard to type you without knowing if this is freshly washed hair with no products and no styling, but just based on what I've seen, I'd put you at 3b/3c.

Have you discovered the Tangle Teezer brush yet? It's awesome! :crush:

Also, elastic bands in and of themselves aren't horrid things -- like everything else, it's all in how you use them. You want cloth-covered elastics so they don't pull the hair, and you want some with no metal clasp. You also don't want to wear the elastic in the same spot day after day after day.

If you're looking for new ways to put your hair up, if it's not long enough for my all-time fave (hairsticks), give Spin-Pins a try. They are very comfortable and easy to insert and remove (just remember righty-tighty, lefty-loosey).

[Wildcat Diva]

I second the spin pins endorsement. I have two holding a cinnabun right now.

[CurlyCap]

Another vote for spin pins! Also, scrunchies are amazing. Nondamaging, and if you get some close to your hair color, your hair will eat all evidence that they are in there!

[MandyBeth]

Minion does well with Quattro basics, but I could try a knot in her hair and it'd stay. She likes claw clips holding up her braid or braids most often. Spin pins are also good. But her needs are out of her way to be a little monkey. If it's cute, that's great, but it can't get in her way.

My newer minion was being a pre teen girl and hating her fuzzy hair. Clarified it as it felt sticky and gummy. Major need for moisture. Stuck an SMT with Biolage conditioning balm on her, rinsed four hours later. Let air dry. Eyeball her hair two hours later. Rewet her hair, work in a palmful of oil. Work in some shea butter and SNTC.

She's 2C/3A. Coated, dried out hair didn't even look wavy really. And I figured the fuzzy was from the build up. She may curl up more, but she doesn't have the serious damage and dryness Minion8 had going on which when not so dried out progressively got tighter and tighter curls.

[TrapperCreekD]

Also, if someone wouldn't mind hair typing me I would appreciate it!! :)

For some reason your picture's not showing for me. :(

[CurlyCap]

I'm at hip! :happydance::cheer::happydance:

Still hanging somewhere between APL and BSL...but whatever...cause I'm at hip!

WOOOOOOOT!

[Quixii]

Another person who is currently wearing spin pins and endorses their use. :)

[arelrios]

Also, if someone wouldn't mind hair typing me I would appreciate it!! :)

Not sure about your hair type... i'm not good at hair typing... but WOW!!! what an amazing hair you have :thudpile:

[GRU]

Another person who is currently wearing spin pins and endorses their use. :)

This sounds like a political commercial.... "I am Quixii, and I approve this message."!!! :lol:

[Quixii]

This sounds like a political commercial.... "I am Quixii, and I approve this message."!!! :lol:
:lol:
Quixii for president! Because she uses spin pins. :agree:

[SoftCurlyHair]

;)______________

[SoftCurlyHair]

I'm at hip! :happydance::cheer::happydance:

Still hanging somewhere between APL and BSL...but whatever...cause I'm at hip!

WOOOOOOOT!
Congratulations! :joy::hifive:

[LadyCelestina]

biogirl87,are you by any chance still lurking this thread? I was reading through the last few pages of this thread on my phone yesterday.My hair is also like yours - I have to comb it,I can't go shampoo-free and it is very easy to go overboard with leave-ins for me.Styling products like gel or mousse make it rough and not shiny.

My texture is somewhere in between waves and curls...So I'm not really sure how I should treat it,I go with whatever it seems to like.

[biogirl87]

biogirl87,are you by any chance still lurking this thread? I was reading through the last few pages of this thread on my phone yesterday.My hair is also like yours - I have to comb it,I can't go shampoo-free and it is very easy to go overboard with leave-ins for me.Styling products like gel or mousse make it rough and not shiny.

My texture is somewhere in between waves and curls...So I'm not really sure how I should treat it,I go with whatever it seems to like.LadCelestina, I still tend to read this thread from time to time but I am not active on this thread any longer. Since I had my hair cut from a little below BSL to about mid neck, my hair barely has any waves in it now. The only parts of my hair that have waves in them are one lock on each of the sides of my face and I think that has to be because of the shampoo that I am using (Herbal Essences Tously Me Softly) as I have not changed anything in my routine except going back to brushing and not using conditioner and it is dry here, so it cannot be because of humidity. I kind of expected my hair to be a lot less wavy after I had it cut as it does not wave in Southern Illinois until it gets past shoulder length. I am glad I had it cut, as it has decreased the amount of time it takes me to do my hair in the morning from 15-20 minutes it took me just to detangle my hair to about a minute to brush it and be ready for the day hair-wise.

I think right now my hair is pretty much straight with two waves in it (my bangs and one lock on the right side of my face) and a bit of body in it. I am not sure what my hair type is right now, but if I had to guess it would probably in the 1s range, maybe 1b or so. I am not even sure I belong in the wavy and wurly thread any more either.

Yes, our hair types do appear to act similar, but for different reasons. The reason that I cannot go shampoo-free and styling products can weigh down my hair easily is because I have fine-textured hair.

[Firefox7275]

Even if you follow the Curly Girl method you don't have to go shampoo-free, the Handbook does permit sulphate free shampoo and many wavies, fine hairs and those with scalp issues do this. Over on the Wavy Hair Community on Facebook I seem to be in the minority co-washing exclusively (rare clarify excepted) and that is because I colour treat so hair is more damaged and poufy almost from the time it exits my scalp.

[biogirl87]

Firefox7275, I am not sure if your reply was to me, but I have pretty much decided that giving the curly girl method another try (even if I use sulfate-free shampoo) is going to be a disaster for my hair. I find my scalp needs daily (morning and night at least) brushing or it rebels and becomes itchy even on day 2 after washing (I usually do not gets itching until day 4 or 5 after washing and this is my scalp's way of telling me it is time to wash my hair - just wanted to mention the reason I get the itching on day 4 or 5 after washing so you do not start thinking that a scalp problem could be a cause as I do not think I have any scalp problems). Now, this may mean I am not a true wavy and that my true hair type is around 1c if we go by how my hair behaves and I am fine with this, but I know my hair has wave to it but needs the length to bring the waves out (oddly enough humidity and length are the only things that bring out the waves in my hair, but having the length be below shoulder and somewhere in the APL-BSL range seems essential or my hair will not have any wave to it).

[lilliemer]

biogirl87,are you by any chance still lurking this thread? I was reading through the last few pages of this thread on my phone yesterday.My hair is also like yours - I have to comb it,I can't go shampoo-free and it is very easy to go overboard with leave-ins for me.Styling products like gel or mousse make it rough and not shiny.

My texture is somewhere in between waves and curls...So I'm not really sure how I should treat it,I go with whatever it seems to like.
Wow, your hair sounds A LOT like mine (hi!)...except mine is shorter (APL curly, BSL pulled straight). Is yours not curly at the roots but with 'major shrinkage' due to ringlets at the ends? Did you lose more curl as it got longer? How do you manage it?

I can't go more than 3 days without washing, as my scalp starts to hurt and shed more hair than I would like. Mousse makes my hair look like it's been rubbed with sandpaper, and I have had a really hard time settling on a good routine. I'm hoping that length will help, as well as a bit of tincture of time as I grow out old heat and mechanical (harsh ponytailing) damage. Currently I am using low-detergent shampoo and lots of leave in conditioner, washing every 2 to 3 days. I have been trying to stretch trims in order to gain length but still need to get damage taken off every 10 to 12 weeks. For DTs I use light coconut milk, rosemary infused olive oil, and SMTs (but have been doing these less frequently of late because of a lack of Time).

[CurlyCap]

Wanted to share this pic on my thread because I know the peeps here will understand.

I put my wet hair up while getting dressed...and then found an interesting tv show...and then forgot about my hair until it was damp...and then tried to take it down.

The hair was very confused. I don't think a single curl pattern or direction repeated itself on my entire head. Overall, I thought it was VERY COOL.

Anyway,

http://i.imgur.com/uEStHVQ.jpg?2

[MandyBeth]

I like it CurlyCap! Seriously, it looks down right fun, like your curls had a party. They aren't frizzy and exploded, they're just all over.

Plus, that little one in back refusing to lay down. Teehee.

[Symphony]

What is your guys' method of trimming? How do curlies microtrim? Do you guys still use the self trimming methods people with straight hair use to get v-, u- , and blunt hemlines?

[GRU]

I do S&D when I feel like it (mostly for fairy knots, not split ends -- very rare for me to find a split end anymore), and I do the "wrap an elastic around it and slide it down" method when I'm taking off any amount of length (usually 1-2 times a year I'll take off 1"-4" of my damaged ends from my pre-LHC years).

I think it's EASIER to self-trim as a curly, b/c there is so much room for variation -- the curls are always going to make each tress a bit different anyway, so unless you have a HUGE discrepancy in length, nobody will ever be able to tell.

[MandyBeth]

Diabolical minion - we just cut where the ends refuse to clump up. Or where she's getting serious tangles that aren't worth combing/brushing out.

For serious removal - I just cut an inch below her request more/less straight across, then took big clumps and trimmed them to no tangle area. Wash, let mostly dry loose, trim any funky ends.

For defuzzing - since it's not length removal, and her fuzzy from damage ends are far easier to see wet/oiled - I just take a clump, go to fuzz, then about a revolution above and cut. About once a week seems to work, trim 12-15 fuzzies a time and her hair doesn't look uneven.

Now, let the fuzzies take over, the ends look uneven. The healthier her curls, the better the ends hold moisture, thus weight. Fuzzies spring up tighter and out since the ends can't hold moisture. So she'd get weird behaving layers, but cut the fuzz off and her hair looks longer. It's actually how I find fuzzies, the shorter ends are usually fuzzy.

In braid waves to 2B - she's got a slightly wavy U shape going on. Full curls, straight across looking.

Minion in training has a pretty deep U going, but she likes it, so I just trim as per requests.

[LadyCelestina]

Even if you follow the Curly Girl method you don't have to go shampoo-free, the Handbook does permit sulphate free shampoo and many wavies, fine hairs and those with scalp issues do this. Over on the Wavy Hair Community on Facebook I seem to be in the minority co-washing exclusively (rare clarify excepted) and that is because I colour treat so hair is more damaged and poufy almost from the time it exits my scalp.
If this was for me,I had problems with both sulfate free shampoo and CO-washing,until I found my current shampoo.


LadCelestina, I still tend to read this thread from time to time but I am not active on this thread any longer. Since I had my hair cut from a little below BSL to about mid neck, my hair barely has any waves in it now. The only parts of my hair that have waves in them are one lock on each of the sides of my face and I think that has to be because of the shampoo that I am using (Herbal Essences Tously Me Softly) as I have not changed anything in my routine except going back to brushing and not using conditioner and it is dry here, so it cannot be because of humidity. I kind of expected my hair to be a lot less wavy after I had it cut as it does not wave in Southern Illinois until it gets past shoulder length. I am glad I had it cut, as it has decreased the amount of time it takes me to do my hair in the morning from 15-20 minutes it took me just to detangle my hair to about a minute to brush it and be ready for the day hair-wise.

I think right now my hair is pretty much straight with two waves in it (my bangs and one lock on the right side of my face) and a bit of body in it. I am not sure what my hair type is right now, but if I had to guess it would probably in the 1s range, maybe 1b or so. I am not even sure I belong in the wavy and wurly thread any more either.

Yes, our hair types do appear to act similar, but for different reasons. The reason that I cannot go shampoo-free and styling products can weigh down my hair easily is because I have fine-textured hair.

It's great you are feeling good about your hair.Having your hair in a style you both like and find practical is a priceless feeling.
Yes,our hair types are obviously different,mine is probably curlier and coarser than yours,I was just surprised because there is a certain pattern most curlies seem to follow with their routine.


Wow, your hair sounds A LOT like mine (hi!)...except mine is shorter (APL curly, BSL pulled straight). Is yours not curly at the roots but with 'major shrinkage' due to ringlets at the ends? Did you lose more curl as it got longer? How do you manage it?

I can't go more than 3 days without washing, as my scalp starts to hurt and shed more hair than I would like. Mousse makes my hair look like it's been rubbed with sandpaper, and I have had a really hard time settling on a good routine. I'm hoping that length will help, as well as a bit of tincture of time as I grow out old heat and mechanical (harsh ponytailing) damage. Currently I am using low-detergent shampoo and lots of leave in conditioner, washing every 2 to 3 days. I have been trying to stretch trims in order to gain length but still need to get damage taken off every 10 to 12 weeks. For DTs I use light coconut milk, rosemary infused olive oil, and SMTs (but have been doing these less frequently of late because of a lack of Time).
Hi! :flower:
Yes and yes.My hair is straight-ish until about chin length,then it develops a wave pattern and curls at the ends only.I also had my hair shrink up to APL when I was BSL :D And yes my hair type changed with length.I now get some smaller,tighter curls especially near the ears,and the rest is waves with ringlet curls at the end.When it was shorter,I had big curls and waves all over,except for close to the roots.
My routine is very similar to yours.I shampoo with sulfate free Schauma kids shampoo (I mention it because it's the only sulfate free thing my scalp will tolerate). I can't use too much leave in,especially not too much conditioner.I can,however,use a bit more of coney serum,aloe,or oil.
Cones are an important part of my hair care.No cones put me in a vicious cycle of hard to detangle/need more product/ tangles easily/hard to detangle dry/need more washing/need more product to detangle properly.I can use up a full bottle of cone free stuff with one wash,coney stuff lasts me for a week or two,minimum.
I wash about as often as well,though sometimes,I just do a scalp wash and comb the length.
10-12 weeks is around 3-4 months ? I'm not that good at maths,but that is not very short trimming interval :)
SMTs are awesome.I sometimes oil my hair pre-wash with coconut oil and brush with a boar bristle brush.

ETA: about shrinkage and loss of curl at longer lengths.My sister was something you would call a wurly,she follows a minimalistic routine of shampoo/oil and infrequent washes and has very coarse hair.She can get it really straight at around waist.It doesn't have the same look as naturally straight hair would have,you can still see a bit of the brushed out curl,but the coarseness hides it well.
Mine is less coarse and I usually don't disturb the curl pattern while drying,but when I do,the curls are very stubborn and just jump back in,maybe a bit stretched.
So I don't know if I'll end up with straight-ish hair like hers one day or what.

[Curlsgirl]

:D Hi everyone! I got a big trim recently and am starting to wear my hair curly again. I have really damaged it by the irons. Evil things they are. Anyhooooo, I need some encouragement!!! Nice to see my thread is still going!!!! <3

[09robiha]

:D Hi everyone! I got a big trim recently and am starting to wear my hair curly again. I have really damaged it by the irons. Evil things they are. Anyhooooo, I need some encouragement!!! Nice to see my thread is still going!!!! <3

Curlsgirl, welcome back!

[Curlsgirl]

Thanks!!!!!

[Symphony]

I've been wanting to try an Elven hairstyle and I want to loosen my curls, or perhaps straighten them. I'm 3b/c and when I tried braiding it, it simply took the form of the braid and really looks just as curly, though a different pattern (S instead of curls). Have any of you found a heatless/no damage way of straightening/loosening curls? I found this video but I am not sure if I want to try it or not... No sure if it would work on my hair (31 inches) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1RO-d1Z9Hs

[CurlyCap]

I've been wanting to try an Elven hairstyle and I want to loosen my curls, or perhaps straighten them. I'm 3b/c and when I tried braiding it, it simply took the form of the braid and really looks just as curly, though a different pattern (S instead of curls). Have any of you found a heatless/no damage way of straightening/loosening curls? I found this video but I am not sure if I want to try it or not... No sure if it would work on my hair (31 inches) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1RO-d1Z9Hs

You can totally get it straight(er) without heat. It just takes a lot of work and patience. I'd start with wet setting and move on from there. You might also want to read through this thread:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...ad.php?t=85483

Hope that helps!

[MandyBeth]

My adorably evil minion's hair just will not straighten without massive heat. Her issue isn't so much the tight curls (she's 3c/4a) but she's got really tight rotations also. So, can't get both those to settle down nicely. Wet set, doobie wrapping, braids, nothing works. Heck, throw 4 braids on her, those suckers curl! Pigtail braids get curly at the ends.

[TrapperCreekD]

I'm super new to the world of humectants, and wondering when they start to lose their effectiveness and possibly work against us. I live in the wet part of Oregon, and while the humidity is in the 90s this time of year outside, the humidity in the house fluctuates between 40-50. I understand that humectants work best in high humidity - this that still a good range?

[Firefox7275]

I'm super new to the world of humectants, and wondering when they start to lose their effectiveness and possibly work against us. I live in the wet part of Oregon, and while the humidity is in the 90s this time of year outside, the humidity in the house fluctuates between 40-50. I understand that humectants work best in high humidity - this that still a good range?

The more potent humectants (eg. glycerin, honey, propylene glycol) are generally recommended for wavy and curly hair when the dew points are in the mid range, high dews they can draw too much water into the hair causing frizz or limp hair, low dews and they can draw too much water out of the hair. But when to use them also depends on your porosity.

Moisture (water) is obsessed about when many of us actually want better conditioned hair or more emollience (softness, slip). Don't forget that common ingredients are weak humectants: hydrolysed protein, fatty alcohols, cationic surfactants, panthenol for example. So you will rarely have a humectant free routine, unless you totally avoid conditioners.

[TrapperCreekD]

Thank you! :flower: There's so much confusing info out there. I had no idea hydrolyzed protein could act as a humectant. It looks like I was thinking about the stronger ones, mainly the honey and AVG in the SMT.

[Symphony]

You can totally get it straight(er) without heat. It just takes a lot of work and patience. I'd start with wet setting and move on from there. You might also want to read through this thread:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...ad.php?t=85483

Hope that helps!


This link isn't working. Any other links? :3

[CurlyCap]

This link isn't working. Any other links? :3

Trying again:
http:// forums. longhaircommunity.com/ showthread.php?t=85483 (remove spaces)


or try searching the thread: Curlies! Experiments in straightening hair with Caruso Steam Rollers (PIC HEAVY)

[Arwenlily]

Hello fellow wurlies and curlies? I haven't read the entire thread but would like to know which products you girls are using :D. I'm somewhere between 2c and 3a.

[Arwenlily]

oops sorry that question mark was supposed to be an exclamation lol

[Aingeal]

Hello again! I am loving the Shea moisture products right now.

[Arwenlily]

Haha thanks again!

[CelinaStarr]

Looking good, CurlyCap.

Old picture:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8482&d=1388538096

Symphony, my beautician actually trims my hair while wet/damp, because it straightens out. I know the books are against wet/damp trimming but it works for me.

[curlsgalore]

Can anyone recommend a good deep conditoner? I'm cone free but would even consider using a conditioner with cones if it gives great results. I was thinking of trying Nexus humectress but wanted to see if anyone had recommendations. Thanks :).

[Arwenlily]

I tried to co-wash and deep condition and I have no idea what is going on with my hair right now. Usually I just shampoo and condition every other day with MoroccanOil moisturizing shampoo and conditioner and then air dry. Recently I've been reading up about co-washing so I decided yo try it out. I conditioned with the MoroccanOil conditioner and left on for 5 minutes. I then applied a deep conditioner which consisted of Suave Naturals green apple conditioner, honey and olive oil and left it on in a shower cap for an hour. I rinsed it off with cold water and scrunched my hair with a T-shirt and applied Loreal EverCurl leave in and air dried.

Usually I love the way my hair looks but wouldn't mind decreasing the frizz so I wanted to try all of this. But after I did my hair is pooch and has the weirdest curl pattern. What is going on?

[Arwenlily]

Edit: poofy not pooch

[GRU]

I conditioned with the MoroccanOil conditioner and left on for 5 minutes. ... I rinsed it off with cold water and scrunched my hair with a T-shirt and applied Loreal EverCurl leave in and air dried.

I suspect the ingredients in the conditioner. Can you list them? I'm guessing you're dealing with silicones and proteins, but I don't know exactly which product you used, so I don't know which ingredients you're dealing with. The Loreal product likely has cones in it as well.

[Arwenlily]

I suspect the ingredients in the conditioner. Can you list them? I'm guessing you're dealing with silicones and proteins, but I don't know exactly which product you used, so I don't know which ingredients you're dealing with. The Loreal product likely has cones in it as well.

MoroccanOil:
Water
Dimethicone
Cetearyl Alcohol
Fragrance
Behentrimonium Chloride
Acetamide Meas
Canola Oil
Argan Oil
Hydrolyzed Vegetable Protein PG-Propyl Silanetriol
Butylene Glycol
Chondrus Crispus Extract
Ascophyllium Nodosum Extract
Palmaria Palmata Extract
Laminaria Saccharina Extract
Undaria Pinnatifida Extract
Phenoxyethanol
Isopropyl Alcohol
Caprylyl Glycol
Citric Acid
Chlorophenesin
Butylphenyl Methylpropional
Hydroxysiohexl 3-Cyclohexene Carroxaldehyde
Linalool
Alpha-Isomethyl Ionone

Loreal EverCurl:
Water
Cetearyl Alcohol
Amodimethicone
Cetyl Esters
Behentrimonium Chloride
Phenoxethanol
Fragrance
Trideceth-6
Isopropyl Alcohol
Coconut Oil
Grape Seed Oil
Benzyl Benzoate
Benzyl Alcohol
Cetrimonium Chloride
Chlorhexidine Dihydrochloride
Linalool
Hexyl Cinna mal
Butylphenyl Methylpropional
2-Oleamido-1
3-Octadecanediol
Hibiscus Esculentus Seed Extract
Coumarin
Orange Peel Oil
Limo ene
BHT

[GRU]

MoroccanOil:
Water
Dimethicone BIG SILICONE, NOT WATER SOLUBLE
Cetearyl Alcohol
Fragrance FRAGRANCE IS A MAIN INGREDIENT???
Behentrimonium Chloride
Acetamide Meas
Canola Oil
Argan Oil
Hydrolyzed Vegetable Protein PG-Propyl Silanetriol PROTEIN
Butylene Glycol
Chondrus Crispus Extract
Ascophyllium Nodosum Extract
Palmaria Palmata Extract
Laminaria Saccharina Extract
Undaria Pinnatifida Extract
Phenoxyethanol THIS MAY BE DRYING (due to ethanol component)
Isopropyl Alcohol DRYING ALCOHOL
Caprylyl Glycol HUMECTANT -- IN DRY WEATHER, CAN DRAW MOISTURE OUT OF YOUR HAIR
Citric Acid
Chlorophenesin
Butylphenyl Methylpropional
Hydroxysiohexl 3-Cyclohexene Carroxaldehyde
Linalool
Alpha-Isomethyl Ionone

Loreal EverCurl:
Water
Cetearyl Alcohol
Amodimethicone SILICONE IS ONE OF THIS PRODUCT'S MAIN INGREDIENTS
Cetyl Esters
Behentrimonium Chloride
Phenoxethanol THIS MAY BE DRYING (due to ethanol component)
Fragrance FRAGRANCE IS PRETTY HIGH ON THIS PRODUCT'S INGREDIENT LIST
Trideceth-6
Isopropyl Alcohol DRYING ALCOHOL
Coconut Oil
Grape Seed Oil
Benzyl Benzoate
Benzyl Alcohol
Cetrimonium Chloride
Chlorhexidine Dihydrochloride
Linalool
Hexyl Cinna mal
Butylphenyl Methylpropional
2-Oleamido-1
3-Octadecanediol
Hibiscus Esculentus Seed Extract
Coumarin
Orange Peel Oil
Limo ene
BHT


Notes above... Bold and Red items would be deal-breakers for me, personally.

I wouldn't use either of those products in a CO-washing routine, because I only use shampoo once a year. Also, too much protein isn't conducive to my hair type -- curls crave moisture, and excessive protein is the "anti-moisture" ingredient.

[Arwenlily]

Notes above... Bold and Red items would be deal-breakers for me, personally.

I wouldn't use either of those products in a CO-washing routine, because I only use shampoo once a year. Also, too much protein isn't conducive to my hair type -- curls crave moisture, and excessive protein is the "anti-moisture" ingredient.

Thank you for taking the time to look through the ingredients. It looks like we may have similar hair type,which products do you use?

[MandyBeth]

Agree with GRU, a lot of stuff that may not play nice.

Start by clarifying. The first cone is a nightmare to get off in my world.

Let your hair dry. It's going to feel bad. Is it really snappy and brittle? You need moisture. Is it gummy and mushy? You need protein, followed with moisture.

Then, go to the basics. Suave Natural is popular because it works and is cheap. Tropical Coconut being the big one, but I've used others without problems.

Now, how does your hair feel? Still pretty snappy, you can try an SMT or any deep conditioner.

[arelrios]

Thank you! :flower: There's so much confusing info out there. I had no idea hydrolyzed protein could act as a humectant. It looks like I was thinking about the stronger ones, mainly the honey and AVG in the SMT.

Hi TrapperCreek, did you try something else? I think I have the same issue as you (I am not sure about the ranges of the humidity inside or outside) but, ... When at home, hair is nice and in its place... then, as soon as I step out of the house... pooooofff!!! hair all over the place ... I live in South Florida...

I was thinking maybe getting a pomade type of product... to try to keep hair in place, but don't want to get too product-y ... and I am not a big fan of gels or at least I have not found one that I am happy with... again, I don't want too much product in my hair ...

Another concern I have is the shed... I am not sure if I am being too paranoid, but it has me worried... once again, it might be that now I pay more attention to it, than before... who knows!

[Theobroma]

Another concern I have is the shed... I am not sure if I am being too paranoid, but it has me worried... once again, it might be that now I pay more attention to it, than before... who knows!

When you say shed, do you mean hair coming out during CO washing?

If so and if, as you say, you're worried about it, I suggest you take careful note of just how much hair comes out during a CO-wash (collect it and take a photo of it if necessary). Then wait the same number of days between washes as you usually do (this is important!) and do a test wash with shampoo. Again take careful note of how much hair comes out and compare with the shed from your CO wash.

In my case, when I did this I shed about one-quarter as much during my shampoo wash as during CO washes. Unfortunately I'd lost 40% of my thickness by the time I realised that my wash-day sheds looked like an awful lot because they really were an awful lot, and that getting conditioner on my scalp was the culprit!

[Gothchiq]

Loosely wurly, coarse texture, medium density, almost at BSL. For me my hair behaves much better in the dry winter, although the rest of me hates it. When it gets warm again, I will probably be putting my hair up when I am outside walking or doing anything that causes me to sweat. Poofy sweaty mess = maddening. I have cut out sulfates and that does help. I use small amounts of cones because my hair is so coarse. First I put a little oil on damp hair and work it in, then a few drops of 'cones over the top to hopefully seal it in. I seem to get the best results that way.

[arelrios]

When you say shed, do you mean hair coming out during CO washing?

If so and if, as you say, you're worried about it, I suggest you take careful note of just how much hair comes out during a CO-wash (collect it and take a photo of it if necessary). Then wait the same number of days between washes as you usually do (this is important!) and do a test wash with shampoo. Again take careful note of how much hair comes out and compare with the shed from your CO wash.

In my case, when I did this I shed about one-quarter as much during my shampoo wash as during CO washes. Unfortunately I'd lost 40% of my thickness by the time I realised that my wash-day sheds looked like an awful lot because they really were an awful lot, and that getting conditioner on my scalp was the culprit!

Thanks for the suggestion Theobroma... I will do this and compare between shampoo and conditioner washes... Hopefully, it wont be too late... How do you wash now?

[Theobroma]

Thanks for the suggestion Theobroma... I will do this and compare between shampoo and conditioner washes... Hopefully, it wont be too late... How do you wash now?

I stuck to shampoo for a while and then tried bar soap. The one and only actual shampoo bar I ever tried also seemed to make me shed more in the wash than shampoo, and I've concluded that my scalp simply reacts that way to my putting anything remotely rich or nourishing on it! So I decided to try the same soap that I use on the rest of me, and it turns out that this plus a vinegar rinse afterwards makes my hair every bit as soft as CO washing did... while allowing most of it to remain on my scalp!

Anyway, good luck! Bottom line: even if it is the conditioner that's causing you to shed, you will find an alternative routine that'll make your hair just as happy.

[arelrios]

I stuck to shampoo for a while and then tried bar soap. The one and only actual shampoo bar I ever tried also seemed to make me shed more in the wash than shampoo, and I've concluded that my scalp simply reacts that way to my putting anything remotely rich or nourishing on it! So I decided to try the same soap that I use on the rest of me, and it turns out that this plus a vinegar rinse afterwards makes my hair every bit as soft as CO washing did... while allowing most of it to remain on my scalp!

Anyway, good luck! Bottom line: even if it is the conditioner that's causing you to shed, you will find an alternative routine that'll make your hair just as happy.

Thank you! Going back to the "testing" phase...

[GRU]

Thank you for taking the time to look through the ingredients. It looks like we may have similar hair type,which products do you use?

I pretty much use Suave Naturals Tropical Coconut exclusively. I avoid anything with any 'cones (even the "water soluble" types) and I refuse to use anything with mineral oil (often listed as Paraffinum Liquidum in the ingredients list) because it does NOT come out of my hair easily. My hair loves almond oil, coconut oil, and grapeseed oil, and all of those easily wash out with CO-washing (super heavy oiling may require a double CO-wash... lather, rinse, repeat).

When I first started here at LHC, I was dealing with a LOT of damage from years of abuse and I did a lot of oiling and SMTing. Four years in, my length is mostly "LHC-hair" and I don't have to goof around with it so much. I still have some damage on my ends, but hopefully within the next year or so, I'll be trimming off the last of the "ick" hair and be left with smoother, happier hair.

You can read about my wash-day routine in this post (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=2898&page=260&p=2584195#post2584195). I only wash my hair a couple times a week and wear it up the rest of the time. And I only brush my hair with a Tangle Teezer brush to reduce the mechanical damage of detangling.

Hope that helps!

[Arwenlily]

I pretty much use Suave Naturals Tropical Coconut exclusively. I avoid anything with any 'cones (even the "water soluble" types) and I refuse to use anything with mineral oil (often listed as Paraffinum Liquidum in the ingredients list) because it does NOT come out of my hair easily. My hair loves almond oil, coconut oil, and grapeseed oil, and all of those easily wash out with CO-washing (super heavy oiling may require a double CO-wash... lather, rinse, repeat).

When I first started here at LHC, I was dealing with a LOT of damage from years of abuse and I did a lot of oiling and SMTing. Four years in, my length is mostly "LHC-hair" and I don't have to goof around with it so much. I still have some damage on my ends, but hopefully within the next year or so, I'll be trimming off the last of the "ick" hair and be left with smoother, happier hair.

You can read about my wash-day routine in this post (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=2898&page=260&p=2584195#post2584195). I only wash my hair a couple times a week and wear it up the rest of the time. And I only brush my hair with a Tangle Teezer brush to reduce the mechanical damage of detangling.

Hope that helps!


Thanks so much! Do you do the ACV rinse every time you shower?

[GRU]

Every wash, not every shower. I only wet my hair down on wash days, not every time I bathe.

[Arwenlily]

Every wash, not every shower. I only wet my hair down on wash days, not every time I bathe.

Oops sorry that is what I meant. Wrong choice of words :/ Thanks for all of the advice!

[Aingeal]

I normally use Aussie moist as my cowash and leave in (I know, not cg friendly, but I LOVE the slip it gives). But I do have some suave coconut conditioner that I use to wash my henna out with. I think I may give it a try as my cowash and use kkkt as my leave in and see how I like it. I may need some cones somewhere though...but maybe my ends get yuck due to cone build up.

[TrapperCreekD]

Hi TrapperCreek, did you try something else? I think I have the same issue as you (I am not sure about the ranges of the humidity inside or outside) but, ... When at home, hair is nice and in its place... then, as soon as I step out of the house... pooooofff!!! hair all over the place ... I live in South Florida...

I was thinking maybe getting a pomade type of product... to try to keep hair in place, but don't want to get too product-y ... and I am not a big fan of gels or at least I have not found one that I am happy with... again, I don't want too much product in my hair ...

Another concern I have is the shed... I am not sure if I am being too paranoid, but it has me worried... once again, it might be that now I pay more attention to it, than before... who knows!

I did try a modified SMT on my last wash - 2 parts condish, 1 part AVG, and a dribble of EVOO (didn't measure). Unfortunately, I have no idea how well it actually worked because I accidentally overdid my prewash - hurriedly glopped on the EVOO a couple hours beforehand instead of the night before like usual - and didn't notice that I didn't get all the oil out until after it was dry. I did have better clumping/less frizz but I have no idea if the oil weighed my hair down into submission or my hair liked the modified mix better.

I didn't notice an increase in shedding, but I only apply from the ears down like regular conditioner. Some could seep down to my scalp while its sitting under the baggie, though...

[arelrios]

I did try a modified SMT on my last wash - 2 parts condish, 1 part AVG, and a dribble of EVOO (didn't measure). Unfortunately, I have no idea how well it actually worked because I accidentally overdid my prewash - hurriedly glopped on the EVOO a couple hours beforehand instead of the night before like usual - and didn't notice that I didn't get all the oil out until after it was dry. I did have better clumping/less frizz but I have no idea if the oil weighed my hair down into submission or my hair liked the modified mix better.

I didn't notice an increase in shedding, but I only apply from the ears down like regular conditioner. Some could seep down to my scalp while its sitting under the baggie, though...

I see... I will try to do some SMT this weekend and see what happens...

[Aingeal]

Ok, I had an awesome hair day yesterday! I clarified with an sls poo and then used Suave Naturals Coconut Conditioner. I then used KCKT as my detangler and LI. The only non cg product I used was Loreal Evercurl Gel (I need to use up my bottle) and let my hair air dry instead of plopping. My curls didn't clump as much as I would like, but my hemline looked soooo much better and my curls were good with tons of volume. :) The only thing I didn't like was that my hair got crunchy and I never got a chance to SOTC. It was also dry because of the Evercurl. I'm quite thrilled as I've not been too happy with my curls when I wear my hair down lately. I really thing the Kinky Curly product had a lot to do with it. I need to get KCCC now, but I want to try out the KCKT with my shea moisture gel. I'm almost there. :disco:

[TrapperCreekD]

Picked up some flax seeds to make my first batch of FSG!

I have very little experience with styling products (and the search function isn't being very helpful) so I have a few questions. Do you use it for "everyday" styling or just when you let your curls come out to play? What's the best way to apply it so I don't end up with clumps of slime? :flower:

[Arwenlily]

I did my first real CO wash today and my hair feels wonderful. I guess I was just using the wrog products before :)

[Bambi]

Just a question for you guys, how many of you have layers? I'm thinking of getting some and I need advice...my hair is 2c-ish fyi.
TIA

[lapushka]

I have layers, but I'm 'only' wavy. My layers are cut in using the compact cut way of doing hair (ponytail on top of forehead for short layers). I love mine and will keep having them cut in. They are amazing. Wouldn't recommend if you're shorter than BSL, though, because the shortest layer will be too short. I have hip length now and my shortest layer is around APL.

[jeanniet]

I have shorter hair now (about SL), and lots of layers. I actually had him cut my layers shorter last time I was in. My hair is thick and having layers gives a lot of lift to my curls. I do get some roundness to my hair shape (since my hair is shorter), but I like it. If I want less roundness, I can always change the way I dry it to let the curls hang a little more. My hair feels much lighter with layers.

[kendraf]

you can see mine in my sig pic... it definitely helps with the shape, but since I have fine hair, the ends start to look a bit thin.

[Neecola]

Picked up some flax seeds to make my first batch of FSG!

I have very little experience with styling products (and the search function isn't being very helpful) so I have a few questions. Do you use it for "everyday" styling or just when you let your curls come out to play? What's the best way to apply it so I don't end up with clumps of slime? :flower:

I find that some vigorous whisking (by hand or with an immersion blender) does a nice job of breaking up the clumps. I actually prefer mine more on the liquidy side so I don't really make it that thick anymore. You can use it as you would any hair gel. Some curly hair sites recommend really saturating the hair with it, followed by SOTC once its dry. I find FSG does build up on my fine hair so I now let my hair dry 50% and just apply a bit to tame the frizzies. When I really want my hair to look nice, I will use more. I only use it on days when I wear my hair down.

Aingeal, I really like the Shea Moisture gel too (but I have to dilute it a lot or its too heavy for me). Let me know how KCCC compares if you try it!

[Bambi]

I have shorter hair now (about SL), and lots of layers. I actually had him cut my layers shorter last time I was in. My hair is thick and having layers gives a lot of lift to my curls. I do get some roundness to my hair shape (since my hair is shorter), but I like it. If I want less roundness, I can always change the way I dry it to let the curls hang a little more. My hair feels much lighter with layers.

Yes! That is what I need, a lift to the curls and some lightness...maybe I should get some because it feels heavy now and my hair is MBL.
Thank you Jeanniet and Lapushka! :)

[TrapperCreekD]

I find that some vigorous whisking (by hand or with an immersion blender) does a nice job of breaking up the clumps. I actually prefer mine more on the liquidy side so I don't really make it that thick anymore. You can use it as you would any hair gel. Some curly hair sites recommend really saturating the hair with it, followed by SOTC once its dry. I find FSG does build up on my fine hair so I now let my hair dry 50% and just apply a bit to tame the frizzies. When I really want my hair to look nice, I will use more. I only use it on days when I wear my hair down.

Thanks for the info! I applied it liberally and was very pleased with the result. The curls lasted quite a long time so I think I'll only use it on wash days to tame the frizzies or down days.


Something that occurred to me today, what determines clump size? Assuming you're not touching or disturbing your hair as it dries, how does hair decide if it's going to thin clumps, or larger, fuller curls?

[GRU]

Something that occurred to me today, what determines clump size? Assuming you're not touching or disturbing your hair as it dries, how does hair decide if it's going to thin clumps, or larger, fuller curls?

You can form your clumps, if you want.

I brush my leave-in through my hair with a Tangle Teezer, and it makes each section into a "sheet" of hair all clumped together. Then I separate it out how I wish.

If I wanted, I could probably put all my hair into one HUGE clump, but it would probably take about three whole days to dry! Plus it would look amazingly silly.

[GRU]

Take a look at this site, particularly the part on "defining": http://www.tightlycurly.com/technique/curlyprimer/

You can do this with ANY size curl/clump....

[MultiCultiCurly]

^^^I just logged in to ask if anyone followed the Tightly Curly Method before I even noticed you posted the site! :-) So, does anyone follow it? If so, what do you think of it? Any modifications?
I'm trying to maximize length, and with all the detangling/combing/dry-detangling I was doing when following a Youtuber with similar hair (she uses an entirely different routine, little to no chemicals and LOTS of oils---I couldn't deal with the crazy oiliness of my hair though, hence going back to the Tightly Curly Method), I felt I was probably doing more damage and not retaining as much as I could have. It's going to take some getting used to again though, at least the part where you don't even finger-comb your hair for the week (I'm almost done with my first week back on though, so I've been staving off the temptation to detangle fairly well---sort of, lol).

[GRU]

The only thing I follow from Tightly Curly is the concept of brushing the leave-in through the hair. Other than that, I just CO-wash with Suave Naturals Tropical Coconut Conditioner, and wear my hair up on non-wash days.

[arelrios]

Take a look at this site, particularly the part on "defining": http://www.tightlycurly.com/technique/curlyprimer/

You can do this with ANY size curl/clump....

Her hair is gorgeous....!!! :thud:

[CurlyCap]

^^^I just logged in to ask if anyone followed the Tightly Curly Method before I even noticed you posted the site! :-) So, does anyone follow it? If so, what do you think of it? Any modifications?


I co-wash and work conditioner into my curls after I co-wash, usually just by spreading it over my curls with my hands. For fancy days, I'll comb or brush the conditioner through my hair...but that's where I give up.

I long ago abandoned (ie, even before LHC) the "defining" or "doodling" ish. It takes too dang long, and I decided it was easier and better to co-wash my hair every day because the extra moisture was more important to keeping my hair happy than the definition. And oddly, my hair tangles more when I try to dictate the clumping rather than just letting it do it's thing. Defining artificial clumps is fine for "fancy days", but ....no. Far too much work and tangling to deal with on a regular basis.

And I'm at hip now. So clearly you don't have to do the whole shebang to retain length. Just keep the hair happy and moisturized.

[Firefox7275]

Something that occurred to me today, what determines clump size? Assuming you're not touching or disturbing your hair as it dries, how does hair decide if it's going to thin clumps, or larger, fuller curls?

A combination of factors: your hair properties/ health, amount of water, amount of conditioner, amount of styler, application technique, weather/ dew points, drying method ....

My hair is colour treated so somewhat damaged/ porous: I need piles of leave in conditioner rich in the major emollients (fatty alcohols and cationic surfactants), at different times of year a recent coconut oil deep treatment or use of hydrolysed protein aids clumping. I assume because this helps my hair behave more like virgin hair.

Anything more than minimal oil in my hair (eg. as a conditioner ingredient) makes for thin stringy clumps, magnesium sulphate (Epsom salts) also breaks them up literally as I apply the product. Shampoo does me no favours clump and frizz wise either, I believe this is to do with the electrical charge on hair and hairs repelling one another. The charge on hair alters as it becomes damaged.

IIRC Tonya McKay has touched on this issue in her Naturallycurly articles, you might Google 'capillary adhesion' and her name.

[MandyBeth]

Don't bother with all that fussing with minion either, well for most days.

It takes soooo long! Seriously, it's a good four hours. I get that with practice, it should speed up - but no. Only time it's useful is post some concerts. If her hair is a matting, tangled nightmare (erm, well more than single concert type as she headbangs with loose hair), doodling helps remind her hair to curl instead of avoiding curls. Which does happen on it's own in a few days once we cut the extreme damage off, so now it's pointless again.

However, I do brush the cleaning round through her hair, breaks up any gunk and eliminates tangles. But for the leave in round, no. I'll finger comb the curls down, but really avoid messing with them. Curls look better and are far easier to manage that way.

But, she's a daily washer, so major differences there. If we tried doodles always - yeah, we'd extend washes. But that means her hair riots, so it looks weird and tangles badly until must brush and wash.

If your hair likes that care, and you like it, it's a reasonable option. But it's not really for saying "Eh, f this. I got me some riotously awesome curls and I'm gonna rock them." and having some big, crazy hair.

[TrapperCreekD]

Very interesting! That make sense, that tighter curls are smaller than looser curls/wurls. The length shot at the end of the CN page, :thud: Wash day is already an event at ~hip so I probably won't be doing the defining/doodling...

[grimsqueaker]

Whirly/Curly checking in! But unfortunately my hair has been so fried (mostly by the abuse of flat irons) that I'm not 100% certain what my real, unaltered hair texture is, but I'm so excited to find out! However, it's most likely 3A, as it gets curlier as it gets healthier + longer and is flat on the roots. The underside, on the other hand, is a definite 3B/3C, so, sometimes, the top parts of my hair will be greasy, whilst the underside is still dry! But I love it. I used to hate it, but nowadays I would literally cry If I woke up with straight hair, It's become a part of my identity and I couldn't stand to lose it.

[MandyBeth]

My major issue with TC is the tag line about not wanting your hair to be a big deal.

I feel it's a negative statement or incorrectly stated at least.

My girl wants freaking jumbo jet type big deal hair. Big deal of amazing awesomeness! She's curly and has a ton of hair with the extremely tight curls - there's no way for her hair to not be a big deal. So I read the tag as implications that you (or in my case, my daughter) should try for reserved, quiet looking, hiding and being ashamed of having big awesome deal hair.

Which doesn't fully fit the site. Tag should be about not wanting to have a big fight with your hair.

But, then I go back to the hate with her styling as big hair isn't for normal wear. What if that's what your well moisturized curls prefer, and the flipping over shoulder cascade down your back does not happen? Sorry, but it goes to feeling like the good hair bad hair debate. You're going to curl now, but it needs to be settled down and quiet.

And for all that is tightly curled - no shampoo on a regular basis!

[silver curls]

Pics taken today of curls. Sorry so dark.
http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj539/Jennifer_Rosen/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/765e469a-56be-49e7-8e0c-b9583eb36260_zps389c656d.jpg (http://s1266.photobucket.com/user/Jennifer_Rosen/media/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/765e469a-56be-49e7-8e0c-b9583eb36260_zps389c656d.jpg.html)http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj539/Jennifer_Rosen/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/1c913060-32c8-44c2-a0d6-317ed59d0496_zpsa3f1d06a.jpg (http://s1266.photobucket.com/user/Jennifer_Rosen/media/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/1c913060-32c8-44c2-a0d6-317ed59d0496_zpsa3f1d06a.jpg.html)http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj539/Jennifer_Rosen/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/6798c53f-39ec-42f6-ad6e-a6e596ae866e_zpsf043075d.jpg (http://s1266.photobucket.com/user/Jennifer_Rosen/media/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/6798c53f-39ec-42f6-ad6e-a6e596ae866e_zpsf043075d.jpg.html)

[silver curls]

Erased double post. Sorry

[TrapperCreekD]

Ooh, pretty,silver curls!

Here's a couple gratuitous freshly-washed wurl shots from this morning. Wish I could have gotten a picture last night before braiding them for bed but camera battery crapped out and I didn't have to wait for it to charge. For some reason the braid stretched them out instead of making braid waves... :confused:
http://i.imgur.com/bSJcmPc.png

http://i.imgur.com/KDdQWyI.png

[silver curls]

Thank you TrapperCreekD!!!
Nice Curls!:cheer: Jealous of your length!!!:cheer:
Someday:wannabe:

[arelrios]

Ooh, pretty,silver curls!

Here's a couple gratuitous freshly-washed wurl shots from this morning. Wish I could have gotten a picture last night before braiding them for bed but camera battery crapped out and I didn't have to wait for it to charge. For some reason the braid stretched them out instead of making braid waves... :confused:
http://i.imgur.com/bSJcmPc.png

http://i.imgur.com/KDdQWyI.png

Gorgeous!!! I love the color and shape of your waves/curls

[TrapperCreekD]

Thank you so much for the compliments! I'm feeling so much better about my wurls since implementing FSG and plopping. :)

[Migranny]

TrapperCreekD, your hair is so shiny. Very pretty!

[CurlyCap]

Today, I randomly decided to pursue the nearly hopeless quest of straightening my hair without heat.

I sectioned it, oiled it, hit it with the caruso steam roller in increasingly larger sections. I knew it wouldn't work. But I wanted to see what it would look like. That took about 2 hours.

Then I decided I needed to minibun sections to pull out more of the curl. Then take those down. Oil them. Hit them with the caruso. Again. One more hour.

It was still big. Not curly. Not wavy. Sorta 1940s-ish....but not. Not visibly longer.

I was not satisfied.

So then I decided to mash my boar bristle brush into my cocao butter and just brush it for a while. Why not? Took about an hour. There was a lot of sectioning involved. It was soft, but still gigantic. Sort of Little Mermaidy.

And now it's in a cinnabun on the top of my head. I'm watching movies. Mission aborted. My arms are tired. Oh well. It was entertaining at least.

Just sharing.

Or, to tell the story another way:

:pray:

:horse: :confused: :horse: :rolleyes: :horse: :steam: :violin: :toast: :magic:

[Kina]

Today, I randomly decided to pursue the nearly hopeless quest of straightening my hair without heat.

I sectioned it, oiled it, hit it with the caruso steam roller in increasingly larger sections. I knew it wouldn't work. But I wanted to see what it would look like. That took about 2 hours.

Then I decided I needed to minibun sections to pull out more of the curl. Then take those down. Oil them. Hit them with the caruso. Again. One more hour.

It was still big. Not curly. Not wavy. Sorta 1940s-ish....but not. Not visibly longer.

I was not satisfied.

So then I decided to mash my boar bristle brush into my cocao butter and just brush it for a while. Why not? Took about an hour. There was a lot of sectioning involved. It was soft, but still gigantic. Sort of Little Mermaidy.

And now it's in a cinnabun on the top of my head. I'm watching movies. Mission aborted. My arms are tired. Oh well. It was entertaining at least.

Just sharing.

Or, to tell the story another way:

:pray:


I dunno the word for this in English, but we call it a dubi. You wrap your wet hair around your head, using your head like a giant roller, pin it and let it dry. No heat and at most a gentle wave.

Let me see if I can find pics... here we go: http://www.dominicanblowout.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/dominicanblowout_dubi_bed.jpg

[Kina]

here's a how to: http://www.tikitikiblog.com/dubi-dubi-dos-and-donts-video/#axzz2s8CAQ2Kj

[CurlyCap]

I dunno the word for this in English, but we call it a dubi. You wrap your wet hair around your head, using your head like a giant roller, pin it and let it dry. No heat and at most a gentle wave.

Let me see if I can find pics... here we go: http://www.dominicanblowout.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/dominicanblowout_dubi_bed.jpg

Lol. Yes, I know about the dubi. My poorly thinking brain just was determined to try something different that I also knew wouldn't work. Thank you for trying to help and relieve my frustration, though. But it was frustration that I courted.

And sadly, dubi's don't work well on my hair. The curl is too tight and so I can't space the hair pins together close enough to knock out most of the curl.

Wet setting in huge magnetic curlers does work for me, but I don't think I'll even again be patient enough to wait the 15+ hours that takes to dry. While also being willing to look like a satellite.

I was just posting for giggles. XD

[CurlyCap]

Lol. My brain must be working through some things....because now I want super curly hair. Ie, define every clump. Maybe doodle my whole head.

It'll take HOURS. Probably look fantastic too.

But wth brain? Why the sudden protestation against our typical wash and go?

[MandyBeth]

Actually, I can't say doodles look better than your and my minion doing wash and go. At least on my minion.

She's also way too curly to straighten without chemicals and heat. Tried low heat, ha. Fail.

She's curly. Nothing else.

[CurlyCap]

Actually, I can't say doodles look better than your and my minion doing wash and go. At least on my minion.

She's also way too curly to straighten without chemicals and heat. Tried low heat, ha. Fail.

She's curly. Nothing else.

Defining and doodling aren't necessarily better or more curly. It's just more polished and magazine like, like someone with straight hair still blowdrying their hair so that it is PERFECTLY straight all around.

My hair is curly no matter what, but sometimes it's nice to hair curls that are even more perfect than the magazines. I have right to play with my hair, too.

[MandyBeth]

Doodles just don't look right on minion. Basically, her natural pattern is too small and not enough space between, so doodles alter the pattern, but her hair still curls independent. So it looks worse. They don't look polished at all.

Fully rolled sock bun gives the magazine polished look, but it's a two day drying event.

But, yup, got to play with the curls. Otherwise, hrumph, no fun.

[jeanniet]

Or, to tell the story another way:

:pray:

:horse: :confused: :horse: :rolleyes: :horse: :steam: :violin: :toast: :magic:

This version is a hoot!

[Beborani]

Doodling and defining artificially dont work for me and neither does scrunching or towelling up high (forget what its called). Lots of leavein comditioner combed in with finger and combs, first wide and then finer to get to all the hair and then left alone. Either blowdry for faster or air dry without much touching and I get great curls. My hair likes to find its own partners to form the curls. I also get cuts that supposedly helps with curling though I doubt at my length it matters as much.

[CoveredByLove]

Hey everyone! A 3a curly girl checking in! :waving: The last three years have been torment for me hair wise. It all started when I got the wretched flatiron. After that, I could not resurrect my curls for anything! At the time though I didn't know anything about protein and used a lot of cones. Desperate for curls, I got a perm August 2012 which fried my fine hair to the point that it was unsalvageable. I trimmed and trimmed and finally December 2013 I got pretty much the rest removed. At the same time, I got a keratin treatment thinking it would help me deal with the rough ends. I regret that too, because three months later it's mostly faded out but it may not ever completely. My roots look tighter than the rest of my hair. Back before the flat iron I was a 3b with 3a underneath. I love my curls and never intended on all of this to happen. I was just ignorant. I'm curious if once my hair continues to grow out if the tightness will return. But here I am! A little past APL when dry and curly, BSL when wet. :D I guess I had to learn my lessons the hard way. Did any of you discover your curls to be tighter once they were healthy?

[Neecola]

Hi Mam! I used to use harsh permanent hair dye on my hair. Full head. Every month. :doh:

I decided to stop using hair dye and cut most of it off, so I had about 2" of hair and now my hair is about APL dry and I can't believe how much tighter my curls are!

[CoveredByLove]

Hi Mam! I used to use harsh permanent hair dye on my hair. Full head. Every month. :doh:

I decided to stop using hair dye and cut most of it off, so I had about 2" of hair and now my hair is about APL dry and I can't believe how much tighter my curls are!

Good to know I'm not the only curly recovering from disastrous decisions! Haha! :p
I'm curious to see if my curls will tighten up as they grow. I used to have waist length 3b curly hair (that was my length dry so no telling what actual length was). I'm juuuust reaching BSL and most of my curls appear 3a. Although... Some of them seem to me taking tighter turns at the roots. :happydance:

[Wildcat Diva]

I just had a thought... Eventually, when my few inches of straightener damaged hair is cut off my ends, I might have more curl on the ends. Whoo hoo! (Theoretically)

[untangleme]

My hair was straight when I was young, and then when I hit puberty (or around that time? high school-ish years), it got all wavy/curly/crazy. And as time goes by, it feels like it just gets crazier! Maybe crazy isn't the right word. It has more.......personality! :cool:

[Curlsgirl]

Cut to a bob due to straightener damage :eek: I sort of like the shorter curly look for now but miss my long hair :( Still better shorter and healthy than long and dry and frizzy. Anyway, good to see again that this thread is still going. Planning on going naturally curly with only drying my bangs with the blow dryer at times. Going mostly CO cone-free, stuff that worked in the first place!!!!

Signed,
Sad I had to learn the hard way :(

[TrapperCreekD]

I just had a thought... Eventually, when my few inches of straightener damaged hair is cut off my ends, I might have more curl on the ends. Whoo hoo! (Theoretically)

My ends are like this - is yours from heat damage or just wear and tear from being the oldest hair?

[CoveredByLove]

My hair was straight when I was young, and then when I hit puberty (or around that time? high school-ish years), it got all wavy/curly/crazy. And as time goes by, it feels like it just gets crazier! Maybe crazy isn't the right word. It has more.......personality! :cool:

The SAME thing happened to me! I didn't realize that it was growing out curly for awhile because I used to roll my hair or blow dry it everyday. I started noticing it was frizz ire than it used to be so I decided to scrunch it with gel one day and voila!i had ringlets! People think I'm making it up when I tell them my hair was straight when I was a kid!

Anywho...I'm curious about how long it will take me to grow to waist again...are any of you at or beyond waist length? How long did it take you to get there? I'm right at BSL right now and want to be at waist by January 2015. Is this a reasonable goal for a 3a curly???

[CoveredByLove]

Oh ! And I'm five foot tall so the distance between my bra strap and waist is a little less than five inches...short waist too!

[ositarosita]

New found curly ... thought I was 1c/2b turns out I'm 3a

dealing with heat damage. I have been attacking it with protein which has made a HUGE difference. I have straight parts that are now starting to swurl but at the moment and since I have 5" of shrinkage cutting is not an option ( I am growing out bangs which should be blended with my shortest layer in about 3-5 months)

I know this question has problem been asked over and over again ( I am sorry for asking it's just that this thread is huge and it will take me days to get through lol) How do you deal with heat damage when cutting is not an option??? When wash n gos don't work??? What have you done with your heat tools???

[Wildcat Diva]

My ends are like this - is yours from heat damage or just wear and tear from being the oldest hair?

I used a flat iron to some degree two years ago. I'm sure it was enough to cause some additional damage that would not be there with only the age/ sun exposure of virgin hair. So since I was about shoulder length when I stopped flat ironing maybe 5-10 times a month, I've got several inches of hair ends that are a bit more damaged than they would be without that history.

[CurlyCap]

The SAME thing happened to me! I didn't realize that it was growing out curly for awhile because I used to roll my hair or blow dry it everyday. I started noticing it was frizz ire than it used to be so I decided to scrunch it with gel one day and voila!i had ringlets! People think I'm making it up when I tell them my hair was straight when I was a kid!

Anywho...I'm curious about how long it will take me to grow to waist again...are any of you at or beyond waist length? How long did it take you to get there? I'm right at BSL right now and want to be at waist by January 2015. Is this a reasonable goal for a 3a curly???

Matters whether you want to at waist curly or straight/stretched. It took me 3 years to grow from pixie to waist (I'm 5'4"), but my usually still looks around APL when curly (3b/3c). I'd figure out your usual shrinkage factor and guestimate how much shrinkage you'd need to compensate for look "look" like your at waist.

[CoveredByLove]

Matters whether you want to at waist curly or straight/stretched. It took me 3 years to grow from pixie to waist (I'm 5'4"), but my usually still looks around APL when curly (3b/3c). I'd figure out your usual shrinkage factor and guestimate how much shrinkage you'd need to compensate for look "look" like your at waist.

Thanks curlycap! I haven't actually done a shrinkage check, but I estimate mine can't be more than about 3 inches. My curls are not tightly coiled... More like loopy S-shaped curls. My hair reaches BSL when dry and curly....so I guess next time I wash it I'll comb it straight to see how long it is straightened out.:o

[ExpectoPatronum]

Ahh no one has posted here in a couple weeks so I figured I would. I'm back on the 'curly hair train'. Basically, I go back and forth between embracing my natural texture and fighting against it. Maybe this will be the time I stick with it? Who knows.

[ositarosita]

I've never been a gel person but I think I'll give it a go. Last night I finally was able to blend my bangs with my shortest layer so now I am doing a person no scissors for 25 months challenge .. challenge ends on my 27th birthday.

**EDIT - my personal challenge will end on my 27th birthday or when I hit waist which ever comes first.. unless I see no need then it will end whenever it HAS to

[lazuliblue]

I am joining this thread! I have literally only known for a few days that I am in fact a wavy-wurly and not 1a/b which I was convinced was my natural texture. For some reason I just ignored the random spiral curls I had and either braided it when wet (so it went wavy/frizzy) or used a low heat hair dryer (so it straightened!) I finally decided to let it dry naturally (as per LHC advice) and I discovered that I have 2b waves at the back and pretty tight sprial curls at the sides and front. I bought some scrunching gel and couldn't believe it when I had curly/wavy hair all day! I have been in denial all this time about my true curliness :o Needless to say I'm thrilled to have these curls and waves, although I think I still need practice on how to style them.

(Plus I finally learned how to do a nautilus bun using a hairstick so I'm gonna order me a Ketylo stick! It has been a crazy hair week!)

[CoveredByLove]

I am joining this thread! I have literally only known for a few days that I am in fact a wavy-wurly and not 1a/b which I was convinced was my natural texture. For some reason I just ignored the random spiral curls I had and either braided it when wet (so it went wavy/frizzy) or used a low heat hair dryer (so it straightened!) I finally decided to let it dry naturally (as per LHC advice) and I discovered that I have 2b waves at the back and pretty tight sprial curls at the sides and front. I bought some scrunching gel and couldn't believe it when I had curly/wavy hair all day! I have been in denial all this time about my true curliness :o Needless to say I'm thrilled to have these curls and waves, although I think I still need practice on how to style them.

(Plus I finally learned how to do a nautilus bun using a hairstick so I'm gonna order me a Ketylo stick! It has been a crazy hair week!)

I'm a fine haired 3a curly and I find that my hair type definitely does NOT come to life unless I use a good amount of gel and use a finger diffuser to dry (on low of course) If I let it air dry it looks like 2b or less because the weight of the water as it dries pulls the curl out. I also really benefit from using mane n tail, which is loaded with proteins. Have you tried using a diffuser to help bring out your curliness? :) it may surprise you how much curl you'll get!
And congrats on your bun achievement! :D

[Aingeal]

Took a length shot today and realized I'm only a couple of inches away from waist curly!! Unfortunately that means I have about 5 -6 more inches to grow as I have shrinkage to contend with. :( So close, and yet so far. Ever feel like you'll never reach your goal?

[CurlyOne]

At what length did your hair start going down instead of out? I have never been more than a few inches past shoulder length and it seems like my hair never gets longer! It just keeps getting, I don't know, bigger. When was the weight of your hair enough to actually make it go down? I know there will always be shrinkage, I just wonder if there is a point where it gets better.

[Aingeal]

My hair started calming down at about bsl. :)

[meteor]

At what length did your hair start going down instead of out?
Around mid-back or a bit higher, but I'm a light wavy. It probably takes longer for curly hair.

[Quixii]

Did you guys see this Curly hair article on Buzzfeed (http://www.buzzfeed.com/jessicaprobus/18-curly-girl-hair-care-hacks)? I found most of the advice sounded not horrible, though using "less is more" for conditioner made my snort in disbelief.

[TrapperCreekD]

Checked out the link; it seems a little contradictory to say the amount is more important than the what product you're using, and then say to know your ingredients. :confused:

[Aingeal]

Did you guys see this Curly hair article on Buzzfeed (http://www.buzzfeed.com/jessicaprobus/18-curly-girl-hair-care-hacks)? I found most of the advice sounded not horrible, though using "less is more" for conditioner made my snort in disbelief.

My hair would laugh at me if I tried to used less conditioner. :wigtongue

[CurlyOne]

I think most of it is good but if I used a diffuser the way they show in the article, I would have a limp, weird mess. They go on to recommend "sealing the cuticle" and then tell you to watch out for harsh ingredients, and say that stylists recommend a trim every 6-8 weeks for curlies, they'll recommend that for every hair type. And what on earth is a "curly diet"? Pretty sure they just made that up as a way to say to eat healthy. Which you should, good nutrition helps but eating those foods will not miraculously give you curly hair. I do like numbers 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 12, 13, 14, 17, 18, 19, and 20, though, they are all pretty solid.

[mrs_coffee]

The amount of conditioner recommended in that Buzzfeed article. Is that for someone whose hair is an inch long? Two dime-sized blobs? LOL.

[meteor]

They seem to recommend using larger amounts of shampoo than conditioner judging by the photo? :confused:
That tiny amount may not be enough even for a leave-in.

On a different note, has anybody tried this "rake and shake" styling technique? It seems to help with definition, but I'd love to know what you guys think about it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72kbVfsW9_A

[CurlyCap]

On a different note, has anybody tried this "rake and shake" styling technique? It seems to help with definition, but I'd love to know what you guys think about it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72kbVfsW9_A

I recognize the idea, but I could never do that much handling on my hair. Ie, if I "raked" the way she did....THROUGH my hair from the roots...I'd just be breaking up my natural clumps and curl pattern and end with a mess.

However, after I apply my product I usually do end up with a few clumps that are bigger than I'd like. So it's pretty typical to grab the tip of a clump and shake it, allowing it to break into smaller clumps.

[Beborani]

I have tried rake and shake. It doesnt get me better results than what I do. I do things that are probably no-no such as combing with fine toothcomb with conditioner after detangling--to both spread the conditioner and to hide exposed scalp areas. I then do a quick version of rake and shake and dry with dryer on warm to hot without diffuser for a bit. Do other things and use dryer again later to dry it off some more and my hair is ready to go. I can comb it afterwards, braid it do whatever I please it will retain the curled look.

[eva888]

Any tips for bringing curls back to life? I bleached my hair until it was basically destroyed and now I'm trying to return to my natural state. Any favorite products/techniques for revitalizing sad hair?

[SereneCurls]

Any tips for bringing curls back to life? I bleached my hair until it was basically destroyed and now I'm trying to return to my natural state. Any favorite products/techniques for revitalizing sad hair?

Hair that's been bleached or colored is often in need of both protein and moisture. You could try a protein treatment followed by a moisturizing treatment. The sad part is that sometimes when the ends of the hair have been damaged by bleach or heat, it's impossible to revive them. Do you have a lot of splits?

[CurlyOne]

On a different note, has anybody tried this "rake and shake" styling technique? It seems to help with definition, but I'd love to know what you guys think about it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72kbVfsW9_A
Kind of, if I rake, I'm pretty sure that would wreck my curls but maybe the product they use really does help. I have done the shake after putting my hair up to dry and I think that helps it a bit.

[eva888]

Hair that's been bleached or colored is often in need of both protein and moisture. You could try a protein treatment followed by a moisturizing treatment. The sad part is that sometimes when the ends of the hair have been damaged by bleach or heat, it's impossible to revive them. Do you have a lot of splits?

Yeah! The ends in the front especially are really fried. I just got a cut so my hair is at shoulder length. I don't want it to go any shorter so I'm trying to get it cut every 8 weeks until the bleached damaged part is gone.

Is an egg protein treatment okay? Or is there one you would suggest? I did an egg protein treatment last week but didn't realize that I should follow it with a moisturizing treatment. I will definitely do that now!

[Beborani]

I have recent picture to share--I really like my hair on days like this--mostly first day of wash.
http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag50/Beborani/f325babe-3e78-4c76-96a1-f32d8bf00db8_zps18ed9ff7.jpg (http://s1298.photobucket.com/user/Beborani/media/f325babe-3e78-4c76-96a1-f32d8bf00db8_zps18ed9ff7.jpg.html)

[meteor]

Yeah! The ends in the front especially are really fried. I just got a cut so my hair is at shoulder length. I don't want it to go any shorter so I'm trying to get it cut every 8 weeks until the bleached damaged part is gone.

Is an egg protein treatment okay? Or is there one you would suggest? I did an egg protein treatment last week but didn't realize that I should follow it with a moisturizing treatment. I will definitely do that now!
I absolutely agree with SereneCurls that bleached hair needs both proteins and moisture. Even more so, when your hair is curly, as curly hair is typically porous and ends don't get as much protective sebum transferred from the scalp as straight hair does.

You need hydrolyzed proteins and amino acids to penetrate and patch-repair porous hair. But the egg proteins are way too large for that, so I don't recommend that treatment. Egg proteins might sit on top, coating the hair, making it stiff, but that's probably not conditioning. For a DIY protein treatment, check out gelatin treatment: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2012/07/gelatin-hair-protein-treatment-faqs.html
This information on proteins for hair is great: all about different types of hydrolyzed proteins, their sizes, who, when and how should use them: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2011/08/mysteries-of-hydrolyzed-proteins.html; http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2013/09/more-about-protein.html


On the moisture/emollience side of the equation, oils like coconut, avocado, olive, palm are extremely useful in this case. You can also benefit from fatty acids in the form of ceramides and 18-MEA, maybe silicones and waxes. Look for penetrating/patch-repairing and occlusive ingredients. Here is a useful read on penetrating conditioning agents: http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2012/10/deep-conditioning-what-ingredients-in.html
"Natural Hair - No Processing:
-water
-hydrolysed wheat protein
-coconut oil
-cetrimonium bromide
-caffeine
-panthenol

Bleached Hair, Relaxed Hair or Damaged Hair (i.e cuticle damage):
- everything in the unprocessed natural hair list above
-some amino acids enhanced by being in a creamy conditioner (arginine, glycine, glutamic acid, phenylalanine, histidine)
-artificial peptides (similar to hydrolysed protein)
-some silicones or amodimethicones (Trimethylsilylamodimethicone)
-hydrolysed palm oil
-18MEA"

[jeanniet]

I don't rake, but I brush my leave in through (upside down) with a Denman, and then I arrange clumps a bit with my fingers if needed. I find if I just rake I get a bunch of wonky hairs trying to do their own thing and jumping out of the clumps. The only shaking I do is after I take my hair out of the plop, just to kind of let the curls settle into the right spot.

I think the Ouidad method would work better for wavier hair. I don't see the point of breaking curls apart like that.

[meteor]

Thank you, guys, for sharing your "rake and shake" experiences! :flower:


I think the Ouidad method would work better for wavier hair. I don't see the point of breaking curls apart like that.
I think so, too! It's great for quickly encouraging controlled s-waves (especially through the "shake" motion) in weak wavies, like myself, but I don't see this as very important for curlies.

[eva888]

I absolutely agree with SereneCurls that bleached hair needs both proteins and moisture. Even more so, when your hair is curly, as curly hair is typically porous and ends don't get as much protective sebum transferred from the scalp as straight hair does.

You need hydrolyzed proteins and amino acids to penetrate and patch-repair porous hair. But the egg proteins are way too large for that, so I don't recommend that treatment. Egg proteins might sit on top, coating the hair, making it stiff, but that's probably not conditioning. For a DIY protein treatment, check out gelatin treatment: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2012/07/gelatin-hair-protein-treatment-faqs.html
This information on proteins for hair is great: all about different types of hydrolyzed proteins, their sizes, who, when and how should use them: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2011/08/mysteries-of-hydrolyzed-proteins.html; http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2013/09/more-about-protein.html


On the moisture/emollience side of the equation, oils like coconut, avocado, olive, palm are extremely useful in this case. You can also benefit from fatty acids in the form of ceramides and 18-MEA, maybe silicones and waxes. Look for penetrating/patch-repairing and occlusive ingredients. Here is a useful read on penetrating conditioning agents: http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2012/10/deep-conditioning-what-ingredients-in.html
"Natural Hair - No Processing:
-water
-hydrolysed wheat protein
-coconut oil
-cetrimonium bromide
-caffeine
-panthenol

Bleached Hair, Relaxed Hair or Damaged Hair (i.e cuticle damage):
- everything in the unprocessed natural hair list above
-some amino acids enhanced by being in a creamy conditioner (arginine, glycine, glutamic acid, phenylalanine, histidine)
-artificial peptides (similar to hydrolysed protein)
-some silicones or amodimethicones (Trimethylsilylamodimethicone)
-hydrolysed palm oil
-18MEA"

Thank you so much for your detailed response! I had heard that the egg protein treatment is not the best, but I live in Europe so lots of products that people mention I can't easily get. The gelatin treatment you linked to looks great, so I will get some gelatin tomorrow at the grocery store and hopefully it will help. :)

The article on penetrating conditioning agents is really interesting. I had no idea that coconut oil needed to be left on overnight to penetrate the hair shaft. So then I guess I should do the protein treatment at night for only a few minutes, rinse, and then do a coconut/olive oil treatment or SMT over night, and wash in the morning. Does that sound right?

I hennaed my hair yesterday and did the CG method today for the first time in a long time and it is starting to get some of its wurly life back, but I think I have a long road ahead of me. :shrug:

[CraftieKittie]

I'm a curly trying to figure out how to manage my hair. I haven't had time to read this thread, but will try to get that done.

I have been CO washing my hair for many years (except for about 1-1/2 years that I did WO). My hair has been brittle for a good 15 years or more. It also seems to be getting thinner (I mean the hair shaft). I used to have medium width hair, but now it seems more fine.

I'm struggling to find some way to make my hair stronger, less frizzy, shinier. I've been trying to do catnip rinses - but apparently conditioner keeps catnip from getting at your hair. So I've just been using WO to wash my hair. However, the catnip seems to be building up on my hair and now has made it feel tacky, heavy and frizzy. I don't want to go back to using shampoo just so I can use catnip but I need something that will help my hair be stronger and healthier.

The biggest problem I have is that my husband has asthma and is highly allergic to anything scented. So I can only use products that are scent-free.

Having said all that, I would appreciate any suggestions that anyone can give me to help my hair. Thanks.

[meteor]

The article on penetrating conditioning agents is really interesting. I had no idea that coconut oil needed to be left on overnight to penetrate the hair shaft. So then I guess I should do the protein treatment at night for only a few minutes, rinse, and then do a coconut/olive oil treatment or SMT over night, and wash in the morning. Does that sound right?

I'm really happy that your hair is improving so quickly on henna and CG method! :) Way to go!
Coconut oil was scientifically proven to penetrate overnight, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't work faster than that. I think an hour or 2 is good enough, even 30 minutes is better than nothing.
Of course, the longer you keep it in your hair, the more it will penetrate. The penetration is further increased by application of heat (just put a plastic cap on to capture your scalp warmth and you are good).

Back to your question, it's recommended to put the oil on dirty dry hair as a pre-poo the night before wash, and wash out the next day with shampoo/conditioner containing hydrolyzed proteins. 15-20 minutes of conditioning is going to give you maximum adsorption of proteins, but even 3-5 minutes is good, I think. Some people don't respond well to proteins, so I'd start small.

[meteor]

I'm a curly trying to figure out how to manage my hair. I haven't had time to read this thread, but will try to get that done.

I have been CO washing my hair for many years (except for about 1-1/2 years that I did WO). My hair has been brittle for a good 15 years or more. It also seems to be getting thinner (I mean the hair shaft). I used to have medium width hair, but now it seems more fine.

I'm struggling to find some way to make my hair stronger, less frizzy, shinier. I've been trying to do catnip rinses - but apparently conditioner keeps catnip from getting at your hair. So I've just been using WO to wash my hair. However, the catnip seems to be building up on my hair and now has made it feel tacky, heavy and frizzy. I don't want to go back to using shampoo just so I can use catnip but I need something that will help my hair be stronger and healthier.

The biggest problem I have is that my husband has asthma and is highly allergic to anything scented. So I can only use products that are scent-free.

Having said all that, I would appreciate any suggestions that anyone can give me to help my hair. Thanks.

Sounds like buildup to me, especially since you CO or WO. I'd recommend clarifying to remove product buildup, and if it's not enough - possibly chelating to remove mineral buildup from hard water. If the water is hard where you live, you might want to consider getting a filter.

You might need to change the products you use.

To increase shine and combat frizz, occlusives like oils and silicones work very well. Use them in your rinse-out conditioners, but especially as leave-ins - light oils and coney serums, if your hair tolerates cones.

[Aingeal]

I'm really happy that your hair is improving so quickly on henna and CG method! :) Way to go!
Coconut oil was scientifically proven to penetrate overnight, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't work faster than that. I think an hour or 2 is good enough, even 30 minutes is better than nothing.
Of course, the longer you keep it in your hair, the more it will penetrate. The penetration is further increased by application of heat (just put a plastic cap on to capture your scalp warmth and you are good).

Back to your question, it's recommended to put the oil on dirty dry hair as a pre-poo the night before wash, and wash out the next day with shampoo/conditioner containing hydrolyzed proteins. 15-20 minutes of conditioning is going to give you maximum adsorption of proteins, but even 3-5 minutes is good, I think. Some people don't respond well to proteins, so I'd start small.

Yes! My hair is porous and damaged but hates too much protein. Coconut oil is the best thing ever according to my hair. :) I usually put it in my hair overnight or in the morning on a wash day and co wash it out. I also use the Shea Moisture line which has coconut oil in it as well.

[ositarosita]

They seem to recommend using larger amounts of shampoo than conditioner judging by the photo? :confused:
That tiny amount may not be enough even for a leave-in.

On a different note, has anybody tried this "rake and shake" styling technique? It seems to help with definition, but I'd love to know what you guys think about it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72kbVfsW9_A

The ouidad rake and shake .. doesn't work for me .... my hair is weird it doesn't like to be scrunched or anything it has a very particular technique it likes

[eva888]

The ouidad rake and shake .. doesn't work for me .... my hair is weird it doesn't like to be scrunched or anything it has a very particular technique it likes

So what's your particular technique? :)

[missquinzel]

My hair is more loosely wavy than curly (if you can tell by my little avator photo!) but when it is scrunched it tends to get more definition in the curls which I like. Now, I have Ouidad shampoo and conditioner with one of their mouses I think it is to use the shake and rake with. For my hair personally, it works pretty well. Everybody's hair is different of course so depending on your type of curl/wave/thickness etc it may not work at all. For me it works nicely but not in a "OH WOW AMAZING" type of way. I haven't done the method in a while since i've just been sticking it in braids lately.

[ositarosita]

So what's your particular technique? :)

I take a handful of hair and push it FLAT against my head (the entirety of my palm). Once everything is on my head I give it a good shake then let it go. I also only use my leave in and sometimes a serum as styling product so my hair comes out voluminous and short (I have a minimum of 5" shrinkage .. normally it's around 7" shrinkage)

[CraftieKittie]

Sounds like buildup to me, especially since you CO or WO. I'd recommend clarifying to remove product buildup, and if it's not enough - possibly chelating to remove mineral buildup from hard water. If the water is hard where you live, you might want to consider getting a filter.

You might need to change the products you use.

To increase shine and combat frizz, occlusives like oils and silicones work very well. Use them in your rinse-out conditioners, but especially as leave-ins - light oils and coney serums, if your hair tolerates cones.

I'm not completely sure of the definitions of the words "clarifying" and "chelating." Is an ACV rinse clarifying or chelating? I've tried an ACV rinse and it didn't seem to do anything. Can you explain how I would do the other one?

I think my rinse out conditioner has some oil in it - but I don't think it has very much. My hair is always very dry even when I just CO. Maybe I should add more oil to the conditioner. I don't know if my hair likes cones or not. I've never figured out how to tell. But my hair has been very brittle for many years and the conditioner I was using had cones. But during the time I did WO I think my hair was still brittle. Would hair that had built-up cones on it continue to be brittle after I stopped using cones? Or would I have to wait until new hair grew out to not be brittle if cones was causing that?

[meteor]

I'm not completely sure of the definitions of the words "clarifying" and "chelating." Is an ACV rinse clarifying or chelating? I've tried an ACV rinse and it didn't seem to do anything. Can you explain how I would do the other one?
Clarifying - removing build-up (usually products) caused by silicones, waxes, polyquats, oils, butters, etc. Done with any simple cone-free SLS shampoo, but some buy shampoos that say "clarifying" on the bottle. You can buy a tiny sample bottle, because you won't use it a lot.
Chelating - removing mineral build-up caused by hard, chlorinated water. Done with a "chelating/swimmers" shampoo that usually targets swimmers, because their hair is exposed to a lot of chlorine in pools that dulls and dries out hair fast. Again, if you can, get only a small bottle, unless you are a swimmer.
Both chelating and clarifying is done on the whole length of hair, unlike usual cleansing just on scalp.
ACV can counteract some mineral buildup by "softening" hard water, making ph more acidic, but I wouldn't call it super-effective chelation. some people use ascorbic acid in their rinses (dubbed "miracle water" - http://archive.longhaircommunity.com...p/t-53388.html) or club soda (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...ad.php?t=78125) to chelate, but I can't vouch for it personally.

In your case I'd recommend clarifying first, because you CO/WO and you need to periodically do a proper shampooing of the length. The frequency of clarifying depends on how many products you use, their composition and your own hair porosity. Most people go by the "feel" of hair when they decide when to clarify. Some do it regularly - like once every month, twice a year, etc.

[meteor]

I think my rinse out conditioner has some oil in it - but I don't think it has very much. My hair is always very dry even when I just CO. Maybe I should add more oil to the conditioner. I don't know if my hair likes cones or not. I've never figured out how to tell. But my hair has been very brittle for many years and the conditioner I was using had cones. But during the time I did WO I think my hair was still brittle. Would hair that had built-up cones on it continue to be brittle after I stopped using cones? Or would I have to wait until new hair grew out to not be brittle if cones was causing that?
Have you tried pre-poo heavy oiling? Just applying a few tablespoons of oil (coconut, olive, whatever you have around the house) a few hours before you wash your hair? Another thing to try is just spreading a couple drops of oil on your hair post-wash. These things tend to really help with frizz.

If brittleness is caused by cones, it will go away after you clarify your hair. Cones are easily removed with SLS. You don't need to grow cones out.

If you don't want to experiment with new products and routines, you might benefit from testing your hair's porosity and elasticity to figure out exactly what's going on with your hair: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2013/07/diy-hair-analysis.html, http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2012/06/hair-porosity-how-to-measure-sort-of.html

[Syren_Curls]

Hi fellow curlies and wurlies! So excited to be on this thread :-)

I've only read *some* of the thread and am already learning so much!

I'm trying to trouble shoot, if anyone can help me figure out a few bits... and I apologize if this was addressed in the thread already :-/ I tried to ask in the CO thread but I didn't get any responses.

I've just started doing co wash with Suave Tropical Coconut over the last few weeks, maybe a month and a half at most. I'm wondering if there was a transition period for most people and how clarifying adjusts with that. I used Neutrogena Anti-Residue shampoo to clarify just before I started and I needed to do it again after 3 weeks, then again a few days ago. I hadn't used SLS before that in a few years and I definitely noticed scalp irritation with the Neutrogena so I used a different non-SLS shampoo the last time and still feel like my hair is a bit weird. I'll dilute the Neutrogena with water next time, but I'm trying to learn more about how much SLS I will be exposing my hair to now if I am doing cowash and see if I can minimize the problems with it. I'm a bit torn about sticking with this or trying to find a gentler, curl-friendly (and gluten free) shampoo :-/

What has the clarifying with CO been like for others? I know many people go with the feel of their hair, but it seems like my hair is feeling build up-y more and more quickly... Am I missing something, I wonder?

Thanks :-)

[Aingeal]

That rake and shake method would kill my curls. I very gently comb the product into my hair, scrunch and leave it alone while it dries.

[SereneCurls]

Hi fellow curlies and wurlies! So excited to be on this thread :-)

I've only read *some* of the thread and am already learning so much!

I'm trying to trouble shoot, if anyone can help me figure out a few bits... and I apologize if this was addressed in the thread already :-/ I tried to ask in the CO thread but I didn't get any responses.

I've just started doing cowash over the last few weeks, maybe a month and a half at most. I'm wondering if there was a transition period for most people and how clarifying adjusts with that. I used Neutrogena Anti-Residue shampoo to clarify just before I started and I needed to do it again after 3 weeks, then again a few days ago. I hadn't used SLS before that in a few years and I definitely noticed scalp irritation with the Neutrogena so I used a different non-SLS shampoo the last time and still feel like my hair is a bit weird. I'll dilute the Neutrogena with water next time, but I'm trying to learn more about how much SLS I will be exposing my hair to now if I am doing cowash and see if I can minimize the problems with it. I'm a bit torn about sticking with this or trying to find a gentler, curl-friendly (and gluten free) shampoo :-/

What has the clarifying with CO been like for others? I know many people go with the feel of their hair, but it seems like my hair is feeling build up-y more and more quickly... Am I missing something, I wonder?

Thanks :-)

Hey. Which conditioner are you using for your co wash? Some of them work better than others, and some people have to try a couple before they have one that works for them.

[Syren_Curls]

Hey. Which conditioner are you using for your co wash? Some of them work better than others, and some people have to try a couple before they have one that works for them.

That's a good question, I should edit to include that. Based on the overwhelming number of positive reviews I've seen on LHC for it as a co wash, I went with the Suave Tropical Coconut. I follow with Shea Moisture coconut & hibiscus, because of the silk protein mostly, usually but have tried it without too and have gotten the same outcome.

Thank you for following up, SereneCurls.

[GRU]

That's a good question, I should edit to include that. Based on the overwhelming number of positive reviews I've seen on LHC for it as a co wash, I went with the Suave Tropical Coconut. I follow with Shea Moisture coconut & hibiscus, because of the silk protein mostly, usually but have tried it without too and have gotten the same outcome.

Why did you "need" to clarify? What "symptoms" did you have? Do you use any other products besides the two conditioners you mentioned?

I've tried a couple Shea Moisture products and not been overly thrilled with them (nothing wrong with them, they just didn't play nicely with my hair, I guess.).

[eva888]

I'm really happy that your hair is improving so quickly on henna and CG method! :) Way to go!
Coconut oil was scientifically proven to penetrate overnight, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't work faster than that. I think an hour or 2 is good enough, even 30 minutes is better than nothing.
Of course, the longer you keep it in your hair, the more it will penetrate. The penetration is further increased by application of heat (just put a plastic cap on to capture your scalp warmth and you are good).

Back to your question, it's recommended to put the oil on dirty dry hair as a pre-poo the night before wash, and wash out the next day with shampoo/conditioner containing hydrolyzed proteins. 15-20 minutes of conditioning is going to give you maximum adsorption of proteins, but even 3-5 minutes is good, I think. Some people don't respond well to proteins, so I'd start small.

Thank you SO MUCH for all your help! Today I did an oil blend pre-poo, clarifying shampoo (trying cone free CO from now on), gelatin protein treatment & SMT. It was a lot of stuff but my hair needed it so badly! Even the super fried bleached parts around my hairline feel like normal hair - I really can't believe it. I will post a picture once my hair has dried if there is a big visible difference but it feels amazing. :cheese:

For reference here is the amount of time I did each step: pre-poo 2 hours, gelatin protein treatment 5 minutes, SMT 2 hours.

[SereneCurls]

Why did you "need" to clarify? What "symptoms" did you have? Do you use any other products besides the two conditioners you mentioned?

I've tried a couple Shea Moisture products and not been overly thrilled with them (nothing wrong with them, they just didn't play nicely with my hair, I guess.).

This is a good question. Is it something about your hair's appearance that makes you want to clarify? The way it feels? Is it an issue with all of your length, or just the hair near the scalp? Also, do you know whether your water is hard or soft? I know this has presented an issue for some co washers.

[Syren_Curls]

GRU and SereneCurls, you're both asking another great question that I should have included in my original comment. Smh. I'm sorry I didn't think to do that.

My hair, throughout the whole length, was sort of greasy, weighed down, limp, the shine was gone even though it still seemed greasy (which was weird), and it was sort of stringy. It felt heavy to the touch and no "slip."

I do not have hard water here, SereneCurls. But that's another great point! I haven't traveled to an area with hard water since I've started co-washing, but I'll have to remember to consider that when making assessments of what's going on with my hair. Thanks for the reminder!

GRU,I went with Shea Moisture conditioner after recommendations for it on this forum because I was looking for one that had a non-wheat protein. I've learned of an intolerance to wheat protein and found that the products I was using before (Nature's Gate) had it. Boooo :-( But better than getting sick, lol. It's still newer to me and it may be what's causing an issue since I switched to it when I started co-washing.

Please let me know if I can give some more information, but here's a picture of my hair a few days in... the greasiness and weighed down thing have amplified since and also happen much more quickly. When I first started, I could get two days in without it, now it's almost immediate :-/

removed

[Rosa Harris]

welp - tried the CG method and this is what hapened - dunno how I feel about my length shrinking so much with the curls tho it looks lots better

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5132/13990429935_65e8398d6b_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/njhBpe)beforeandafter copy (https://flic.kr/p/njhBpe) by rosarl13 (https://www.flickr.com/people/121893704@N04/), on Flickr

[Jumper]

I've use that Shea Moisture conditioner once now and will admit it left my hair "heavier" and a little more oily - which I LOVE because I seem to produce almost no natural oil. So the weight and shine I just love. Maybe it's not a candidate for an everyday use conditioner for you?

I used it again tonight and scrunched some into my hair as a leave in... I'm wondering whether it will look greasy in the morning but I'm hoping for some awesome wave/curl, so we'll see. I figure if it looks oily I'll just throw it up in a bun (and I'll be very surprised, because my dry as a desert hair just drinks up any moisture).

[GRU]

GRU,I went with Shea Moisture conditioner after recommendations for it on this forum because I was looking for one that had a non-wheat protein. I've learned of an intolerance to wheat protein and found that the products I was using before (Nature's Gate) had it. Boooo :-( But better than getting sick, lol. It's still newer to me and it may be what's causing an issue since I switched to it when I started co-washing.

Please let me know if I can give some more information, but here's a picture of my hair a few days in... the greasiness and weighed down thing have amplified since and also happen much more quickly. When I first started, I could get two days in without it, now it's almost immediate :-/


Have you tried using JUST the Suave as both your washing and leave-in conditioner?

[eva888]

welp - tried the CG method and this is what hapened - dunno how I feel about my length shrinking so much with the curls tho it looks lots better

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5132/13990429935_65e8398d6b_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/njhBpe)beforeandafter copy (https://flic.kr/p/njhBpe) by rosarl13 (https://www.flickr.com/people/121893704@N04/), on Flickr

Beautiful! Thanks for posting pictures. Keep it up! I think losing a little bit of the length for the curl is worth it. We actually have the same hair type so you might find that your hair has less volume and more length on day 2, day 3 etc.

[Aingeal]

welp - tried the CG method and this is what hapened - dunno how I feel about my length shrinking so much with the curls tho it looks lots better

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5132/13990429935_65e8398d6b_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/njhBpe)beforeandafter copy (https://flic.kr/p/njhBpe) by rosarl13 (https://www.flickr.com/people/121893704@N04/), on Flickr

Stunning! It looks wonderful. And it gets better with time!

[Beborani]

Rosa my hair is like that--thin at the bottom and denser at the top--only way I can wear it down is curled up curly withleave in conditioner--yours looks pretty--I see losing length as a positive thing--it gives you bounce without having to cut layers!

[Rosa Harris]

It awesome! I finally feel I have pretty hair not straggly fuzzy ugly hair.

[jeanniet]

Well, I got fed up and did some curly cutting, lol. Background story: I found a local stylist who gave me a Deva cut back in June, and he did a great job. I was really happy with the cut. Went back two more times over the summer and fall, and the cut was still good, but the last time he just kind of rubbed me the wrong way--a little too opinionated, if you KWIM. I don't mind a chatty stylist, but not in this way. I figured I would give him one more chance, so had him do a cut a few weeks ago. Not happy with the cut. I think this time he was so busy opining on everything that he wasn't paying attention to my dang hair. Nothing particularly wrong with it, but it wasn't what I was paying him for, which was a Deva cut. Essentially it was a straight hair cut on dry hair, not the curl by curl deal. So it looked okay, but didn't have the lift and movement and spring that it should have. My hair is really heavy, and gets flat if there isn't some weight taken off. Part of that was my fault because I told him I wanted to grow the length out a couple of inches more, but didn't express that I also wanted some shorter layers to keep it from going too flat. However, he also didn't ask me about layers or what he'd done previously in terms of layers, or really anything. I've already made the decision to find another stylist (ugh), but not until summer.

So I decided to do some trimming myself, see if I could figure out what would work best so I can make sure the next stylist and I are both on the same page. First thing I did was Feye's method and took just a bit off the back (maybe an inch). Then I parted in the back, brought the two halves forward, and trimmed 1/2" or so. Then I did the ponytail on top of my head and cut about an inch to layer it. Last, and I'm still working on this a bit, I went all over my head, fluffed it up, and trimmed up random curls to give some lift and spring. I know really you're supposed to cut curl by curl, but the idea of that was just overwhelming--I don't have the patience (or ability) for that! So this hybrid method was the closest I could get.

So. much. better. Way more spring, curls popping all over. It just really needed some of that weight off. Now, it's certainly not perfect and if I straightened it would probably look kinda funny, but since I don't straighten that really doesn't matter. Also I'm not really growing my hair out long, so didn't mind losing some length (although overall it was very little off, but looks like more because of the increased spring). I'm pretty happy. Now I have a better idea what to communicate in terms of what I want, and if need be, I can always trim myself. Just thought this might be helpful to someone else. If I get a chance, I'll get some pictures up to show how it looks now.

[OperaPhantom]

I have wavy/curly hair. I'm going to get it cut in a few weeks. Summers here are hot, and long, thick, heavy hair is not something I need in summer, especially since I overheat easily and this is supposed to be a really hot summer. It'll also be nice to have a fresh start. I had a nervous habit of fiddling with my hair, so there's a lot of breakage and short pieces. The shortest bit is just past chin length, so I'm getting my hair cut to chin length. I'm so happy that I'll have my hair at the same length for the first time in years! :D

[Remi]

Well done! Jeanniet- I have had the same situation with hair stylists. Good for you on doing your own trims!
Well, I got fed up and did some curly cutting, lol. Background story: I found a local stylist who gave me a Deva cut back in June, and he did a great job. I was really happy with the cut. Went back two more times over the summer and fall, and the cut was still good, but the last time he just kind of rubbed me the wrong way--a little too opinionated, if you KWIM. I don't mind a chatty stylist, but not in this way. I figured I would give him one more chance, so had him do a cut a few weeks ago. Not happy with the cut. I think this time he was so busy opining on everything that he wasn't paying attention to my dang hair. Nothing particularly wrong with it, but it wasn't what I was paying him for, which was a Deva cut. Essentially it was a straight hair cut on dry hair, not the curl by curl deal. So it looked okay, but didn't have the lift and movement and spring that it should have. My hair is really heavy, and gets flat if there isn't some weight taken off. Part of that was my fault because I told him I wanted to grow the length out a couple of inches more, but didn't express that I also wanted some shorter layers to keep it from going too flat. However, he also didn't ask me about layers or what he'd done previously in terms of layers, or really anything. I've already made the decision to find another stylist (ugh), but not until summer.

So I decided to do some trimming myself, see if I could figure out what would work best so I can make sure the next stylist and I are both on the same page. First thing I did was Feye's method and took just a bit off the back (maybe an inch). Then I parted in the back, brought the two halves forward, and trimmed 1/2" or so. Then I did the ponytail on top of my head and cut about an inch to layer it. Last, and I'm still working on this a bit, I went all over my head, fluffed it up, and trimmed up random curls to give some lift and spring. I know really you're supposed to cut curl by curl, but the idea of that was just overwhelming--I don't have the patience (or ability) for that! So this hybrid method was the closest I could get.

So. much. better. Way more spring, curls popping all over. It just really needed some of that weight off. Now, it's certainly not perfect and if I straightened it would probably look kinda funny, but since I don't straighten that really doesn't matter. Also I'm not really growing my hair out long, so didn't mind losing some length (although overall it was very little off, but looks like more because of the increased spring). I'm pretty happy. Now I have a better idea what to communicate in terms of what I want, and if need be, I can always trim myself. Just thought this might be helpful to someone else. If I get a chance, I'll get some pictures up to show how it looks now.

[jeanniet]

Well done! Jeanniet- I have had the same situation with hair stylists. Good for you on doing your own trims!

Overall I've had really good experiences with stylists. This is the first one who I went to specifically for curly cuts, and honestly I don't know what the heck his issue was. I know he has the ability to do a good job, but apparently not the motivation. Whatever it is, I'm not paying for a curly cut that isn't one. :steam

[Syren_Curls]

Have you tried using JUST the Suave as both your washing and leave-in conditioner?

I hadn't tried that because I thought the leave-in needed to be protein heavier but your asking makes me think I should try it and maybe use the Shea Moisture for deeper conditioning. I see on your sig that you use STC for both and your hair is lovely. I will update on that after my next wash this weekend. Thank you for the brainstorming and trouble shooting!

Jumper, I'm curious how it turned out for you...?

Rosa Harris, your hair does look great :-)

[Syren_Curls]

Well, I got fed up and did some curly cutting, lol. Background story: I found a local stylist who gave me a Deva cut back in June, and he did a great job. I was really happy with the cut. Went back two more times over the summer and fall, and the cut was still good, but the last time he just kind of rubbed me the wrong way--a little too opinionated, if you KWIM. I don't mind a chatty stylist, but not in this way. I figured I would give him one more chance, so had him do a cut a few weeks ago. Not happy with the cut. I think this time he was so busy opining on everything that he wasn't paying attention to my dang hair. Nothing particularly wrong with it, but it wasn't what I was paying him for, which was a Deva cut. Essentially it was a straight hair cut on dry hair, not the curl by curl deal. So it looked okay, but didn't have the lift and movement and spring that it should have. My hair is really heavy, and gets flat if there isn't some weight taken off. Part of that was my fault because I told him I wanted to grow the length out a couple of inches more, but didn't express that I also wanted some shorter layers to keep it from going too flat. However, he also didn't ask me about layers or what he'd done previously in terms of layers, or really anything. I've already made the decision to find another stylist (ugh), but not until summer.

So I decided to do some trimming myself, see if I could figure out what would work best so I can make sure the next stylist and I are both on the same page. First thing I did was Feye's method and took just a bit off the back (maybe an inch). Then I parted in the back, brought the two halves forward, and trimmed 1/2" or so. Then I did the ponytail on top of my head and cut about an inch to layer it. Last, and I'm still working on this a bit, I went all over my head, fluffed it up, and trimmed up random curls to give some lift and spring. I know really you're supposed to cut curl by curl, but the idea of that was just overwhelming--I don't have the patience (or ability) for that! So this hybrid method was the closest I could get.

So. much. better. Way more spring, curls popping all over. It just really needed some of that weight off. Now, it's certainly not perfect and if I straightened it would probably look kinda funny, but since I don't straighten that really doesn't matter. Also I'm not really growing my hair out long, so didn't mind losing some length (although overall it was very little off, but looks like more because of the increased spring). I'm pretty happy. Now I have a better idea what to communicate in terms of what I want, and if need be, I can always trim myself. Just thought this might be helpful to someone else. If I get a chance, I'll get some pictures up to show how it looks now.

Very nicely done! I'm glad you feel good about the cut and bought yourself some time till you find a new (more attentive!) stylist! I also appreciate your posting this to share... I've been a bit anxious to do a trim myself because of curls and layers and this helps me get a better idea of what might be a good approach :-)

[arelrios]

I did earlier today the gelatin treatment (gelatin, honey, olive oil, conditioner, acv)... i'm seating now waiting for my hair to dry... so far, without putting anything in my hair more than conditioner (yes to cucumbers) and a dab of panacea I can see curls... yes, curls all over my head... or at least all over my hair line...

I will report once it's completely dry.... the smt should be done immediately after the protein? or it could be done, let's say tomorrow?

[Kimberly]

Congrats on your successful self-trim!


Well, I got fed up and did some curly cutting, lol. Background story: I found a local stylist who gave me a Deva cut back in June, and he did a great job. I was really happy with the cut. Went back two more times over the summer and fall, and the cut was still good, but the last time he just kind of rubbed me the wrong way--a little too opinionated, if you KWIM. I don't mind a chatty stylist, but not in this way. I figured I would give him one more chance, so had him do a cut a few weeks ago. Not happy with the cut. I think this time he was so busy opining on everything that he wasn't paying attention to my dang hair. Nothing particularly wrong with it, but it wasn't what I was paying him for, which was a Deva cut. Essentially it was a straight hair cut on dry hair, not the curl by curl deal. So it looked okay, but didn't have the lift and movement and spring that it should have. My hair is really heavy, and gets flat if there isn't some weight taken off. Part of that was my fault because I told him I wanted to grow the length out a couple of inches more, but didn't express that I also wanted some shorter layers to keep it from going too flat. However, he also didn't ask me about layers or what he'd done previously in terms of layers, or really anything. I've already made the decision to find another stylist (ugh), but not until summer.

So I decided to do some trimming myself, see if I could figure out what would work best so I can make sure the next stylist and I are both on the same page. First thing I did was Feye's method and took just a bit off the back (maybe an inch). Then I parted in the back, brought the two halves forward, and trimmed 1/2" or so. Then I did the ponytail on top of my head and cut about an inch to layer it. Last, and I'm still working on this a bit, I went all over my head, fluffed it up, and trimmed up random curls to give some lift and spring. I know really you're supposed to cut curl by curl, but the idea of that was just overwhelming--I don't have the patience (or ability) for that! So this hybrid method was the closest I could get.

So. much. better. Way more spring, curls popping all over. It just really needed some of that weight off. Now, it's certainly not perfect and if I straightened it would probably look kinda funny, but since I don't straighten that really doesn't matter. Also I'm not really growing my hair out long, so didn't mind losing some length (although overall it was very little off, but looks like more because of the increased spring). I'm pretty happy. Now I have a better idea what to communicate in terms of what I want, and if need be, I can always trim myself. Just thought this might be helpful to someone else. If I get a chance, I'll get some pictures up to show how it looks now.

[Jumper]

Using the Shea moisture as a leave in turned out fairly well. Left me with some nice wurls and smells great.

[Syren_Curls]

Great to hear that!

I'll be doing just the STC as co-wash and leave-in tonight... hoping it does the trick for me! Will update then... thanks again to GRU, SereneCurls, and Jumper for the trouble-shooting help again :-)

[Syren_Curls]

Okay... I am really at my wit's end here and about to just chop all of it off. I did the co-wash and leave-in with just the Suave Tropical Coconut last night and plopped it to bed (only about 3 hours) and let it finish drying on its own in the morning. Nothing else put in, no other product, oil, gel, nothing at all.

Within two hours it was a ball of grease! It looked and felt exactly like I had saturated it for a heavy oiling. It was greasy, heavy, lifeless, stringy and tangly, and looked like it was sopping with oil! I don't understand what is going on with it at all and I can't seem to make it stop.

I tried to take some pictures in my office. Please don't mind the less than flattering lighting and please keep in mind I took different angles of weirdness so that I could try and showcase just how greasy/oily it looks. I included a bun pic to show that it was like that from scalp all the way to the very ends:

Removed

My last clarify was last Sunday and I had managed to stretch that wash until last night. I hadn't put anything into it all week and it was looking fine. Please, please help. I can't stand this!

[Kina]

^ if this is a mess, your hair must look amazing the rest of the time!

Did you use a different conditioner for your co wash? that's all I got, maybe it didn't like it.

[Beborani]

Syren, Your hair looks just fine but you can probably feel the greasiness. Suave as leave in must not agree with your hair. I tried once and didn't like it though many here love it. I play it safe and only use conditioners labeled 'leave in' as I dont want to go through too many trial and errors.

[Syren_Curls]

^ if this is a mess, your hair must look amazing the rest of the time!

Did you use a different conditioner for your co wash? that's all I got, maybe it didn't like it.


Syren, Your hair looks just fine but you can probably feel the greasiness. Suave as leave in must not agree with your hair. I tried once and didn't like it though many here love it. I play it safe and only use conditioners labeled 'leave in' as I dont want to go through too many trial and errors.

Thank you for the nice compliments. It's hard to capture the matted, greasy, waxy thing in a picture, but it definitely looks different than my normal hair does. Your comments made me call a friend or two and ask how the pics look in comparison with my normal hair. They noted a difference but still weren't seeing what I am seeing in person. It definitely *feels* very greasy, exactly like when I do a heavy saturating oil treatment.

I used the same conditioner (Suave Tropical Coconut) for the "wash" which I have been doing for a few weeks. I had been following with Shea Moisture conditioner but was having a bit of a similar effect so I tried the STC for the leave in based on feedback here. Almost immediately after fully drying, this weighed down, stringy, greasy thing happened. Maybe just washing with the STC then an officially labeled "leave in" and no conditioner after the co-wash might be better, but I'm scared to even try at this point... I have new respect for people who experiment and present themselves in public! I was so embarrassed at work with this today!

[eva888]

Thank you for the nice compliments. It's hard to capture the matted, greasy, waxy thing in a picture, but it definitely looks different than my normal hair does. Your comments made me call a friend or two and ask how the pics look in comparison with my normal hair. They noted a difference but still weren't seeing what I am seeing in person. It definitely *feels* very greasy, exactly like when I do a heavy saturating oil treatment.

I used the same conditioner (Suave Tropical Coconut) for the "wash" which I have been doing for a few weeks. I had been following with Shea Moisture conditioner but was having a bit of a similar effect so I tried the STC for the leave in based on feedback here. Almost immediately after fully drying, this weighed down, stringy, greasy thing happened. Maybe just washing with the STC then an officially labeled "leave in" and no conditioner after the co-wash might be better, but I'm scared to even try at this point... I have new respect for people who experiment and present themselves in public! I was so embarrassed at work with this today!

Was the CO wash working before or did you still feel weighted down? For a long time I was COing with not enough added water so that it never got to a good lather, and my hair often felt "not clean." Now I be sure to use two big handfuls and really get a good lather going and no matter how much I've oiled my hair as a pre-poo it comes out clean. Also be sure to use almost nothing as a leave in conditioner - try something between pea size and dime size.

I keep a bottle of Batiste dry shampoo for emergency situations when I need to go to work and experimentation has led to embarrassing hair. It's not very good for your hair, but I find that it helps me knowing that I have a safety net. I feel like I can experiment more.

[Crabbyco]

Syren, I see that you're a fine hair, LI may just be too much for your hair. I rarely use a LI and when I do, it's a product that is meant to refresh for 2nd day curls. For moisture I pre-oil, CO wash and stay away from gels that are too drying.

[Syren_Curls]

Was the CO wash working before or did you still feel weighted down? For a long time I was COing with not enough added water so that it never got to a good lather, and my hair often felt "not clean." Now I be sure to use two big handfuls and really get a good lather going and no matter how much I've oiled my hair as a pre-poo it comes out clean. Also be sure to use almost nothing as a leave in conditioner - try something between pea size and dime size.

I keep a bottle of Batiste dry shampoo for emergency situations when I need to go to work and experimentation has led to embarrassing hair. It's not very good for your hair, but I find that it helps me knowing that I have a safety net. I feel like I can experiment more.

I've only been doing this routine for about a month and a half. The first week and a half or so, CO was working beautifully! I was so excited but then I needed to clarify and then again a few days after that and progressively worse with yesterday's greaseball of string within hours of fully drying being the worst of it. I picked up a bottle of Batiste today, thank you for sharing that secret to making experimentation flops bearable. I had a bottle of instant coffee in my office for those days where I just need a bit of help to stretch a wash, but I can't put that through all of my hair to save a bad experiment day. I like the safety net idea. I also appreciate your sharing about the added water to make sure there is a good enough lather. I will add that and give it a go... fingers crossed!


Syren, I see that you're a fine hair, LI may just be too much for your hair. I rarely use a LI and when I do, it's a product that is meant to refresh for 2nd day curls. For moisture I pre-oil, CO wash and stay away from gels that are too drying.

I think this might be capturing what's causing this. Thank you for sharing what you do in your routine. I really just thought that it would be impossible to "wash" hair and not condition it. Except the co-wash may just be enough for my fine hair, like you said, and moisturizing can be done through other means. I think this is a big factor and I'm going to just leave out the LI. I'll do a pre-oil first and see how it goes then eliminate it if need be. Would you mind if I ask you some of the products you use that are meant to refresh 2nd day curls?

I really appreciate all of the help and feedback figuring this out. I think we've nailed what the problem is and I feel like I have a sense of how to navigate. Thank you all so much, this was really upsetting for me and I really felt confused and lost. I'll post pics of what it looks like when (hopefully!) it looks like itself again! I was about ready to pull it all out :-(

[Crabbyco]

Syren, This is the product I use for a LI. http://www.curls.biz/store/curl-refresher-and-moisturizer/
It's very watery and light. I think any "refresher" product would work, applied in dripping wet hair after washing and before any other product. But I don't use it very often, only when my hair feels dry. My curl pattern isn't as strong as yours so I need some kind of gel and they can be drying.

[Syren_Curls]

Syren, This is the product I use for a LI. http://www.curls.biz/store/curl-refresher-and-moisturizer/
It's very watery and light. I think any "refresher" product would work, applied in dripping wet hair after washing and before any other product. But I don't use it very often, only when my hair feels dry. My curl pattern isn't as strong as yours so I need some kind of gel and they can be drying.

Thanks, Crabbyco. That looks like a great product! I really appreciate the link because I can check the ingredients for gluten-I'm a celiac and can't use anything with wheat products. Unfortunately, I can't use this but it gave me a really good idea of what to look for and I am thinking of this one (http://www.beauty.com/products/prod.asp?pid=352860&catid=297883&aid=338669&aparam=352860&aid=338669&aparam=&scinit1=). They look to be similar so I am hoping it's a go :-)

You have very beautiful hair and it is clear from your avatar that you handle it very nicely :-)

[arelrios]

I agree with what others mentioned regarding the leave-in Syren ... My hair is not fine at all, but if I put too much leave in or just conditioner, would look very similar to yours... (it happened to me yesterday as I tried to 'moisturize' more my waves applying a more moisturizing conditioner) ... It is true that sometimes, less is more... ::)

Good luck finding the right products... pretty much all of us are in the same search, i think...

[Syren_Curls]

I've just used a chelant and no LI while making sure I used a lot of water and conditioner for the CO. My hair almost fully dry now and it already looks SO MUCH better and feels almost like itself. It's the tiniest touch dry but I think that's part of what to expect with the chelant... and I can always use a light oiling or refreshing mist so I'm not nearly as concerned about that-I'm just glad to discover that it's really important for me to take it easy with the conditioning, lol.

Huge thank you's for the feedback and troubleshooting! I'm so relieved, this was making me freak out a bit, if it wasn't obvius :-)

arelrios, you make a good point about finding the right recipe of care and products. It reminds me that it is a fluid process, not a static one and likely to be ever evolving as needed.

I'm calling this hair crisis resolved for the moment... with a lot of help from fellow LHCers! :cheer::joy:

[Syren_Curls]

I've just used a chelant and no LI while making sure I used a lot of water and conditioner for the CO. My hair almost fully dry now and it already looks SO MUCH better and feels almost like itself. It's the tiniest touch dry but I think that's part of what to expect with the chelant... and I can always use a light oiling or refreshing mist so I'm not nearly as concerned about that-I'm just glad to discover that it's really important for me to take it easy with the conditioning, lol.

Huge thank you's for the feedback and troubleshooting! I'm so relieved, this was making me freak out a bit, if it wasn't obvius :-)

arelrios, you make a good point about finding the right recipe of care and products. It reminds me that it is a fluid process, not a static one and likely to be ever evolving as needed.

I'm calling this hair crisis resolved for the moment... with a lot of help from fellow LHCers! :cheer::joy:

[TrapperCreekD]

Congrats on getting your hair back to normal! :D


:scissors:

Then I did the ponytail on top of my head and cut about an inch to layer it.

I'm considering layers along with my celebratory TBL trim and I'm curious, how far up your length do the layers go?

[ositarosita]

Congrats on getting your hair back to normal! :D



I'm considering layers along with my celebratory TBL trim and I'm curious, how far up your length do the layers go?

Right now my hair is 1" away from APL and my shortest layer is earlobe so 1" away from chin -- cut shorter than I would like so my bangs blended in making them easier to grow out and gives me more volume ... plus I'm not cutting for 2 years so they will grow out nicely

[jeanniet]

Congrats on getting your hair back to normal! :D



I'm considering layers along with my celebratory TBL trim and I'm curious, how far up your length do the layers go?

There's about a 3-4" difference between the shortest and longest layers. That's on shoulder length hair. Not quite TBL, lol!

[Rosa Harris]

Honestly feeling very conflicted about these curls. I love them, folks love them it seems yet every time I see the length it just bothers me. I feel like I'm back to 'shortie' because all wurled up its about bra strap length from the crack-oh-my-bottom. I know it will get back there (and actually be longer when pulled down and look much fuller) but that just feels forever-and-a-day away after it taking nearly 6 years to get to here. I mean - is it going to be another six to get back to my bottom but with wurlies instead? I feel like my sig is a lie if my hair is only hanging mid-back instead of dusting my bottom. It's frustrating. I want it to look full and wirly but I miss that feeling of it sashing across me - I wear a lot of lil titty tops and love the hair feeling. There is also something just telling me that I just look like a perm-head now rather than a natural even tho I am natural. Its weird. The picture disturbs me when I see it. What is wrong with me. Hair issues? I see my mom in those pictures? I do. Our 'difference' was she was curly and I was something-another-whatever-I-don't-know. Rght now I am just hating it almost enough to grab the clippers and destroy it. I wouldn't but I'm feeling a bit angry at it or something. I don't know. Hair craziness/ Sorry about the rant. I needed to vent.

[Rosa Harris]

I know what triggred all this - my mom with her ' i see you finnally did something with your hair and got a perm like I said' and she won't believe its really just MY hair.

[Rosa Harris]

Ok- trying to cope with my hair. I know this should not be such a huge emotional issue.

First it still baffles me now looking at my pics how I missed for 42 years that I was straitening out curls. I had no idea what was going on with my hair had a name or that it was considered a good thing - clumping - and people try to make it happen. So I been fighting that for years calling it 'a stringly mess' and wondering why I got asked if I used relaxer. Now looking at it I can see how the way I pulled it out to dry led to a texture that really looks a lot like relaxed hair. Weird. I would start with it wet and then the whole time run my fingers through it lifting sections up and out like one would blow dry it out and actually before I swore off the heat and brush I DID blowdry it out. In fact I even missed that 'blowdry it out' actually meant blowdrying the curls out. Geeze Mom, thanx for explaining that one when I was 6.

So now I am trying to look at my hair more objectively and decide what type it is really - I mean really really and not be the queen of curl denial. I found this set of curl typing pics. I can see them better than the ones here. I'm wondering what ya'll think? Looks like maybe 3A but not 3B?

first the link then my up close and personal curly pics. Keep in mind this is without any type of jell - this is just them jumpin up like they wanna natural with nothin but a co wash. Almost scared to crunch Fluffy and see what she does with jell. Its also after 2 henna treatments.

http://www.naturallycurly.com/hair-types

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7317/13990452172_2842a87503_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/njhJ1C)damflintriver 015 copy (https://flic.kr/p/njhJ1C) by rosarl13 (https://www.flickr.com/people/121893704@N04/), on Flickr
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7444/13901590718_82901dfca2_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/nbrhAA)damflintriver 023 (https://flic.kr/p/nbrhAA) by rosarl13 (https://www.flickr.com/people/121893704@N04/), on Flickr
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7411/14088158455_b04be30452_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/nsVuFH)damflintriver 0262 copy (https://flic.kr/p/nsVuFH) by rosarl13 (https://www.flickr.com/people/121893704@N04/), on Flickr

[eva888]

Ok- trying to cope with my hair. I know this should not be such a huge emotional issue.

First it still baffles me now looking at my pics how I missed for 42 years that I was straitening out curls. I had no idea what was going on with my hair had a name or that it was considered a good thing - clumping - and people try to make it happen. So I been fighting that for years calling it 'a stringly mess' and wondering why I got asked if I used relaxer. Now looking at it I can see how the way I pulled it out to dry led to a texture that really looks a lot like relaxed hair. Weird. I would start with it wet and then the whole time run my fingers through it lifting sections up and out like one would blow dry it out and actually before I swore off the heat and brush I DID blowdry it out. In fact I even missed that 'blowdry it out' actually meant blowdrying the curls out. Geeze Mom, thanx for explaining that one when I was 6.

So now I am trying to look at my hair more objectively and decide what type it is really - I mean really really and not be the queen of curl denial. I found this set of curl typing pics. I can see them better than the ones here. I'm wondering what ya'll think? Looks like maybe 3A but not 3B?

first the link then my up close and personal curly pics. Keep in mind this is without any type of jell - this is just them jumpin up like they wanna natural with nothin but a co wash. Almost scared to crunch Fluffy and see what she does with jell. Its also after 2 henna treatments.

http://www.naturallycurly.com/hair-types

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7317/13990452172_2842a87503_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/njhJ1C)damflintriver 015 copy (https://flic.kr/p/njhJ1C) by rosarl13 (https://www.flickr.com/people/121893704@N04/), on Flickr
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7444/13901590718_82901dfca2_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/nbrhAA)damflintriver 023 (https://flic.kr/p/nbrhAA) by rosarl13 (https://www.flickr.com/people/121893704@N04/), on Flickr
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7411/14088158455_b04be30452_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/nsVuFH)damflintriver 0262 copy (https://flic.kr/p/nsVuFH) by rosarl13 (https://www.flickr.com/people/121893704@N04/), on Flickr

It looks very 2b to me. Put some gel in it, scrunch it and see what happens! You might also want to look into trying some braid waves. They are great on type 2 hair.

[Rosa Harris]

Cool.. I've done braid waves since I was a kid. I divide into 6 sections and braid it. that is one of the ways I found to make it behave for me. ^ sections keeps it from looking wavy from the neck only - I do the top 3 higher up.

[eva888]

That sounds like a good idea! On my hair the waves would be too small if I divided it into that many sections.

When my hair was longer I used to do a simple English braid when my hair was damp and had gel in it. I would only leave it in for only an hour or so and then take it out. If I left it in any longer it would be very obvious that it was from a braid, but for a shorter time the result was pretty natural looking waves. Here's a picture:
http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a570/evagryan/veronahairpic_zps6b881056.jpg

It's not perfect looking, but nice and natural! Using product definitely helps. I wish my hair was long again! This is making me miss it very much.

Anyway, I don't think you would lose much length with braid waves so it could be a good compromise for you :)

[Rosa Harris]

That sounds like a good idea! On my hair the waves would be too small if I divided it into that many sections.




I wanted the crimped look without the crimping iron and gel. :) It also makes it more fluffy looking.

[Beborani]

Well Rosa my mother asks me if I permed or something as I was her straight haired child but I recall wayward frizzy hair that was tamed with coconut oil into braids. She doesnt like curly girl curls as it looks like knotted, matted hair to her but For the first time in my life I can wear my long hair down without feeling self-conscious. Wish this was around during my teen years. I dont mind the shrinkage as wear-downability trumps everything else that is very personal. Yours looks pretty--I am not good with typing hair--I dont think it matters much other than styling tips but even then it is very individual--I tweak mine to suit me and my moods.

[jeanniet]

Well Rosa my mother asks me if I permed or something as I was her straight haired child but I recall wayward frizzy hair that was tamed with coconut oil into braids. She doesnt like curly girl curls as it looks like knotted, matted hair to her but For the first time in my life I can wear my long hair down without feeling self-conscious. Wish this was around during my teen years. I dont mind the shrinkage as wear-downability trumps everything else that is very personal. Yours looks pretty--I am not good with typing hair--I dont think it matters much other than styling tips but even then it is very individual--I tweak mine to suit me and my moods.

Haha, my mom asked me if I got a perm as well! I always thought I had wavy hair because everyone told me I did, but didn't realize it was actually curly (3s rather than 2s) until I did my hair typing here.

Rosa, do curly girl or CO at least for about a month. It'll give you a better idea of where your pattern is. Right now I would say 2b. My definition of 3s is seeing that the hair actually spirals, either large spirals or tighter. For example, most of my hair turns in larger spirals about 1" or even 1.5" in diameter. It can be hard to see sometimes because of the weight of my hair even at this length, but the turns are there. I also have a few areas that are much tighter, about 1/3" in diameter, and those look more like actual springs. Those are 3b. Then sometimes I'll see hairs that are more a 2 pattern, like an undulating wave. Most people have multiple curl patterns.

I don't think gel will give a stronger curl pattern, or at least I don't see that in myself. It holds what's there. If I could use gel to push into all 3b, I would, but all I get is what I usually have. It just doesn't frizz out and lose definition as the day goes on, from the wind and what-not. It may help a 2 pattern a little more because I think sometimes waves can fall out more easily, or at least that's what I've heard some 2s say.

I really need to save some shed hairs and take a picture so I can show the different patterns on my head. Each head is different, so it can be hard to look at pictures and figure things out. Looking at hairs or individual curls is easier.

[jeanniet]

I posted this picture in the "Show me your waves and curls" thread, but thought I would also post here. I don't think I've posted a picture since I went CG about a year ago. Sorry I couldn't get a whole head shot--I'm pretty hopeless at those. This was after a busy and breezy day, so there's some wild hairs sticking out, but you get the general idea. :D

ETA: The very top of my head is more wavy. I think there's just too much weight for there to be curl all the way up. Also the back is much tighter than the front, and that's where any 3b is. The picture is from the side.

http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu150/edmjt63/7d86d2e11498cc0c6d2611bb96982dd8.jpg

[curlsgalore]

I posted this picture in the "Show me your waves and curls" thread, but thought I would also post here. I don't think I've posted a picture since I went CG about a year ago. Sorry I couldn't get a whole head shot--I'm pretty hopeless at those. This was after a busy and breezy day, so there's some wild hairs sticking out, but you get the general idea. :D

ETA: The very top of my head is more wavy. I think there's just too much weight for there to be curl all the way up. Also the back is much tighter than the front, and that's where any 3b is. The picture is from the side.

http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu150/edmjt63/7d86d2e11498cc0c6d2611bb96982dd8.jpg

Your hair is gorgeous!

[jeanniet]

Your hair is gorgeous!

Thank you! ;) I need to practice getting whole-head shots.

[Syren_Curls]

I agree, jeanniet-lovely hair!

RosaHarris... Whatever you decide your hair is, it's lovely :-) And you will see my own mini-freak out over my hair, so I can understand it being an emotional issue... I think we all feel strongly connected with our hair on this forum (and many other closet longhairs out there!). That said, I did notice that my curls loosened up a bit after several henna applications. My mom, who grew up overseas where many relatives routinely did henna, said that she remembers that it had that impact. I have also read it elsewhere on this forum... maybe get an amla treatment to counteract that, even if you don't mix it into your henna treatment ("darkens" the color, from my understanding), as I've read it can help liven up curls. I am planning to experiment with that in the next few weeks. Your curls look similar to mine when mine used to be over-moisturized with too many heavy oilings (at least 4 in a week, lol, when my hair was in good condition just because it made me happy... that was a few years ago, I have calmed it down significantly since!). I have 3a hair with some 3b's as well, if that helps you out at all :-)