Beyond help? Time to cut it?

[zsuper]

Here's the story.

My hair is amazing after drying. It's extremely soft, rarely tangles for some odd reason, very little frizz, but too much body. I'd like to think my hair is healthy; it has a nice shine and it's very hard to break a strand. In one case, I had a strand of shed hair wrapped my fingers and I actually had trouble snapping it.

However, a day or so after it totally dries, it goes to hell with frizzies and whatnot. After closer inspection, I noticed that a lot of my hair is diffferent lengths, which is what's causing the 'frizz,' if you can call it frizz. It's actually just a lot of hairs that are shorter than the rest sticking out. They're all different lengths, anywhere from ~2 feet to 3 inches.

When I was younger, I often brushed my hair after getting out of the shower (you wouldn't believe how much hair there would be on the brush), which I think might be the reason it's like this.


Just looking for opinions. Can I do anything to salvage my hair, or do I have to cut it short and regrow it to fix the 'frizz' caused by all the broken strands?

[Rebelkat]

It may just be part of the natural growth cycle of hair. There are always short hairs mixed in with the long ones because of shedding and regrowth. Check to see if there are splits. If not, then it's most likely not damage. Perhaps using more moisture could tame the "frizz" if it's not damage. HTH. :redgrin:

[Fiferstone]

How long is it currently?

The answer depends on how much length you're willing to sacrifice in order to eliminate the straggles, and if you want a blunt, even hemline or if you want a natural (fairy-tale ends) hemline.

You could decide to maintain at your current length, doing micro-trims until the worst of the straggles are under control, or you could decide to just get rid of the straggles in one go. Depends on what's the least traumatic for you, based on what's most important to you in right now in terms of goals. Hope that helps.

[zsuper]

I thought of that, too, but didn't think it seemed realistic.
The hairs aren't split, but they're A LOT of different lengths. My hair is between my back and my waist (closer to my waist), over two feet, and it's completely covered with the different length hairs.

I mean if you sectioned off a part of my hair about two inches across, I'm estimating there would be ~60 different lengths of hair making up the 'frizz' along the length.


I do use a moisturizing shampoo/conditioner, as well as oil, and none of my products have anything like alcohol that would dry my hair out. I'm not sure what more I can do to help moisturize it. :(

[zsuper]

I wouldn't mind the odd length hairs, as long as they wouldn't stick out and make the rest look so frizzy.

If there doesn't seem to be anything I can do, I'll probably get it cut to shoulder length and then regrow it from there, but that would be a worst case scenario.

[Speckla]

I'd say leave it alone. I cut my hair all one length this past May to get rid of all my layers and now I have natural layers. I've given up on one length and just leave it alone as long as there's no split ends, breakage, or damage.

[teela1978]

Those odd-length hairs sound to me like 'younger' hairs that started growing after the longer ones. I wouldn't cut to 'even them out' because you never will :)

As to the length drying out, there are several options. Have you looked into oiling at all (use a VERY small amount of olive or coconut oil on the length, I think there's an article)? Or using a leave in conditioner every day? That could help with the length drying out and going frizzy on you.

[zsuper]

Those odd-length hairs sound to me like 'younger' hairs that started growing after the longer ones. I wouldn't cut to 'even them out' because you never will :)

As to the length drying out, there are several options. Have you looked into oiling at all (use a VERY small amount of olive or coconut oil on the length, I think there's an article)? Or using a leave in conditioner every day? That could help with the length drying out and going frizzy on you.


Well, I wash my hair every Sunday and Thursday. On Sunday, I use shampoo and conditioner. On Thursday, I only use conditioner. I always do it before bed and let it air dry before laying down.

While my hair is drying, I apply roughly a quarter size amount of Moroccan Oil which is argan oil with some cones. Then I apply a bit more oil the next day, probably a dime size amount.

I used slightly more oil than usual this week because I was considering that maybe the hair was sticking out because it needed more.
Today, my hair felt like an oil spill and the odd length hairs were stuck out worse than they've ever been before; I mean some of the shorter ones were LITERALLY sticking straight out. Just a while ago, as a little test, I applied more oil; it did absolutely nothing to put the stuck out hairs down.


Because of this, I'm afraid of using a leave in conditioner and I don't think more oil will do the trick.

[zsuper]

Just to clarify, I'm not sure if the length is drying out or not, but I do need some way to stop these shorter hairs from sticking out. On some days, my hair looks like a bird nest because they're sticking out so much, and my only choice is to put it back in a pony tail; and even then, I need to slick it back with half a tube of gel because a lot of the shorter hairs aren't long enough to be held back by my hairband.

[longhairedfairy]

I agree with teela. You will never get rid of those because hair grows at different rates. If they all grew at the same rate/had the exact same growth cycle you would have all the same length, but they would also end the cycle and fall out at the same time and you would have a period of complete baldness every few years or so (more or less depending on your terminal length/growth rate/length of the cycle).
I also agree that very light oiling is probably your best bet.

ETA: I was typing during your most recent posts and therefore did not see them until after I posted. Maybe you could try some aloe gel instead of more oil.

[Flynn]

It may just be part of the natural growth cycle of hair. There are always short hairs mixed in with the long ones because of shedding and regrowth. Check to see if there are splits. If not, then it's most likely not damage. Perhaps using more moisture could tame the "frizz" if it's not damage. HTH. :redgrin:



Those odd-length hairs sound to me like 'younger' hairs that started growing after the longer ones. I wouldn't cut to 'even them out' because you never will :)

As to the length drying out, there are several options. Have you looked into oiling at all (use a VERY small amount of olive or coconut oil on the length, I think there's an article)? Or using a leave in conditioner every day? That could help with the length drying out and going frizzy on you.

Having read everything here, I agree strongly with both of these.

[teela1978]

Well, I wash my hair every Sunday and Thursday. On Sunday, I use shampoo and conditioner. On Thursday, I only use conditioner. I always do it before bed and let it air dry before laying down.

While my hair is drying, I apply roughly a quarter size amount of Moroccan Oil which is argan oil with some cones. Then I apply a bit more oil the next day, probably a dime size amount.

I used slightly more oil than usual this week because I was considering that maybe the hair was sticking out because it needed more.
Today, my hair felt like an oil spill and the odd length hairs were stuck out worse than they've ever been before; I mean some of the shorter ones were LITERALLY sticking straight out. Just a while ago, as a little test, I applied more oil; it did absolutely nothing to put the stuck out hairs down.


Because of this, I'm afraid of using a leave in conditioner and I don't think more oil will do the trick.

You can also spritz your hair with a little water to get moisture back in. That might not be a bad idea. If oil isn't helping, I'd go with a spritzer or some leave-in conditioner. They do rather different things for the hair in my opinion.

ETA: aloe gel diluted in a spritzer can be very nice for dry/frazzled length :)

[Tinose]

If there's no splits in the shorter hair, it sounds to me like they're just part of the natural growth cycle, with maybe a little extra damage from harsh brushing. I'm only APL, with very little damage, and I still have tons of shorter hairs everywhere that fly away at the drop of a hat, because that's just the way hair grows. It seems to me that your problem isn't with the shorter strands so much as with the hair frizzing out.

If your problem's with them coming out of updos, I'd suggest using some sort of gel to keep them in place. If your problem's with your hair frizzing when it's down, it sounds then like you need more moisture. I'd suggest SMTs, and experimenting with different forms of washing such as CWCs or CO, and using more oil in your hair.

[zsuper]

I'm going to get beaten down for saying this, eventually.
Don't read below if you have a weak stomach.









I flat iron my hair.
I stopped doing it for 2-3 years and just started again last month.
I use the oil for protection (it has a lot of cones) and the lowest heat setting needed to straighten it.
I only fully straighten it the day after washing it, on the other days I only need to touch it up in a few places on an even lower heat setting.
I don't flat iron it at all on weekends.

Because of this, I can't use a spritzer; or even water-based products. They put wave and (the biggest problem) body back into my hair. All of my products are oil or aloe gel based, nothing with water.


Is it safe to use a leave in conditioner as well as oil? I was always under the impression that oils worked pretty much the same as a leave-in conditioner.
If using both won't make my hair greasy, I might see what Eufora has in terms of a leave-in conditioner.

[zsuper]

I'm a guy and not very social.
When I'm out, it's usually in a business environment, so what I can do with my hair and still be considered dressed appropriately is very limited.

Basically only a ponytail or left down. I highly prefer leaving it down because it feels much nicer, so I only resort to a ponytail if the weather is bad or my hair is completely disagreeable. Frizz in general is a no-no; if there's too much, I basically have to wear it back.

[rogue_psyche]

Like many others said. It is impossible to have hair that is all one length. I would merely look at your routine and see if there's anywhere you could add moisture or take away drying agents. If you are using conventional shampoo, it might be a good time to look into less harsh cleansers. A leave in (or oiling) added daily regardless of whether or not it is wash day may help.

[teela1978]

I'm going to get beaten down for saying this, eventually.
Don't read below if you have a weak stomach.









I flat iron my hair.
I stopped doing it for 2-3 years and just started again last month.
I use the oil for protection (it has a lot of cones) and the lowest heat setting needed to straighten it.
I only fully straighten it the day after washing it, on the other days I only need to touch it up in a few places on an even lower heat setting.
I don't flat iron it at all on weekends.

Because of this, I can't use a spritzer; or even water-based products. They put wave and (the biggest problem) body back into my hair. All of my products are oil or aloe gel based, nothing with water.


Is it safe to use a leave in conditioner as well as oil? I was always under the impression that oils worked pretty much the same as a leave-in conditioner.
If using both won't make my hair greasy, I might see what Eufora has in terms of a leave-in conditioner.

In that case, your hair is probably starting to recurl from ambient moisture. Re-ironing is pretty much your best option there. You might want to find a good 'anti-frizz' serum to use over or instead of your oil to keep out the humidity.

There's nothing inherently wrong with flat-ironing your hair... but it does become a vicious cycle, and can cause breakage... which possibly looks best after flat ironing...

[Flynn]

I flat iron my hair.
I stopped doing it for 2-3 years and just started again last month.
I use the oil for protection (it has a lot of cones) and the lowest heat setting needed to straighten it.
I only fully straighten it the day after washing it, on the other days I only need to touch it up in a few places on an even lower heat setting.
I don't flat iron it at all on weekends.

Because of this, I can't use a spritzer; or even water-based products. They put wave and (the biggest problem) body back into my hair. All of my products are oil or aloe gel based, nothing with water.


Is it safe to use a leave in conditioner as well as oil? I was always under the impression that oils worked pretty much the same as a leave-in conditioner.
If using both won't make my hair greasy, I might see what Eufora has in terms of a leave-in conditioner.


So, your problem is more that your shorty hairs aren't staying super-straight on day two, right?

With that, I suspect everything is explained! ^__^ Your straightened shorter hairs are just getting some of their natural wave back from the humidity in the air. Doesn't that happen to everyone who straightens, with damaged hair or otherwise?


Have you considered a permanent straightening approach? That may make them behave better for longer. (ETA: there is a guy on this forum -- Eric The Great -- who is... either a stylist or an apprentice stylist, who insists the Brazillian Keratin Treatment doesn't dissolve your hair and leave it all nasty, like a more traditional perming method can. If you want super-super-straight all the time, it might be the way to go.)

Adding a leave-in conditioner might make that even worse, (waves and curls become more pronounced with more moisture) so I wouldn't bother with that approach.

ETA: No, oils don't work the same as a leave-in condish. Conditioner actually adds moisture, oils do not, they just keep it in there.



As for getting beaten down, etc... your hair, your choice. Flatironing, sure it's bad for it, but it's up to you. Some people are at TBL+ and still bleach and dye, and it all works out fine for them. If you're happy with flatiron, go for it.

[zsuper]

Like many others said. It is impossible to have hair that is all one length. I would merely look at your routine and see if there's anywhere you could add moisture or take away drying agents. If you are using conventional shampoo, it might be a good time to look into less harsh cleansers. A leave in (or oiling) added daily regardless of whether or not it is wash day may help.

Yeah. I'm kind of at a loss.

My shampoo and conditioner are both Eufora, which is aloe-gel based and doesn't have any harsh cleansers that I know by name. At least, I'd hope it doesn't have anything harsh, considering each bottle is $30-40.

I can try more oil, but like I said, I tried a bit more this week and today my hair feels like an oil slick and the stuck out strands are worse than ever.

[zsuper]

I had a less harsh form of chemical straightening done to make my hair more manageable; my hair is still very wavy, but less frizzy and much easier to flat iron. I've considered thermal reconditioning, but I'm not sure if I want that much damage.

I'm not sure why the hairs are curling. Even if I flat iron them, they don't stay down. I did a little test and went very slowly over a particularly bad section on a higher heat setting than normal and it did nothing to keep down the stuck out hairs.

It's only the ends of the shorter hairs that stick out; the rest of the length stays completely straight, then the 1-2 inches at the end curves directly outwards so that the tip is pointing straight out.

[Flynn]

I had a less harsh form of chemical straightening done to make my hair more manageable; my hair is still very wavy, but less frizzy and much easier to flat iron. I've considered thermal reconditioning, but I'm not sure if I want that much damage.

I'm not sure why the hairs are curling. Even if I flat iron them, they don't stay down. I did a little test and went very slowly over a particularly bad section on a higher heat setting than normal and it did nothing to keep down the stuck out hairs.

It's only the ends of the shorter hairs that stick out; the rest of the length stays completely straight, then the 1-2 inches at the end curves directly outwards so that the tip is pointing straight out.

Yeah, that's completely normal. Next time you're sitting behind, talking to, or otherwise in the vicinity of a woman with otherwise pin-straight hair, have a quick look. You'll probably see she'll have exactly the same (unless it's naturally that straight, in which case she might not). They all make little J-shapes, right?

If thermal reconditioning (that's the Yuko Method, right?) hasn't flattened them right down, I don't think I'd worry about them. It's probably only you who is noticing, because, after all, they are on your head.

[zsuper]

Right. I've noticed people have it, but I find I have a lot more of these hairs; they're literally everywhere. Or maybe it's just more noticeable for some reason.

If there's no way to minimize them, I guess I'll have to learn to live with it.

[Flynn]

Yeah, other than trying another chemical method, I don't think there is any way to get rid of them entirely... and like I said, if the thermal reconditioning didn't do it, I don't think anything will.

I think it's more you notice a lot more of them because they are on you. Is your hair particularly dark, by any chance? That might also be making them seem more noticeable on you (most women I see with this tend to be blondes... >_o )


ETA: You may be able to weigh them down a bit more with a heavily coney serum (you know, the sort of things that get marketed as "smooth and sleek")... That will probably make more of a difference than oil alone...

[Anje]

Unfortunately, everyone's going to have those little hairs that are at a different point of their growth cycle than the hair that goes down to the ends, and just about every 1c/2a I've ever known has issues with some of these shorter hairs popping up and frizzing. Flat ironing might cause more breakage for you and therefore more in-between hairs, but different heads can withstand different levels of abuse.

Your hair's considerably coarser than mine, but you might find that you can get those hairs down with something like "fox's shea butter conditioning cream," which is a blend of shea butter, conditioner, and oil (the recipe is over in the recipes section). It seems to weigh down and flatten more of that frizzy stuff than other things I've tried. Gel might be another option -- curlies often love it for keeping their curls clumped together.

Flynn mentioned permanent straightening (probably as in using a lye relaxer), which is an option, but it will certainly weaken your hair. Another option is to try embracing the waves a bit more and perhaps encourage them. What frizz remains won't show as much in a mass of waves, which can be very attractive on a man. Dudes don't need to have straight hair.

[Flynn]

(Anje: just above, he says hes already done that, using the thermal reconditioning treatment.)

[Anje]

I see that... you type faster than I do.

[spidermom]

This is normal. Everybody has hairs of every length. Last week an old hair shed out. This week a new hair is poking up from that same follicle. This happens every single week of your entire life. It's more noticeable in some hair types (like mine).

Of course you probably have some breakage too. We all break hairs from time to time.

[zsuper]

I didn't have thermal reconditioning; I had a much more gentle treatment done.

I'm actually not sure how coarse my hair is.

Before I had it treated, it was M/C. My stylist had to use a #3 solution for the treatment.
A few days later, I went back and my stylist was out, but another stylist I knew said that she thought my hair was very fine.

I have noticed that since having the treatment done, my scalp is much more visible along my part, so it may be fine. I can't really tell.

[ZenBird07]

I haven't tried it yet but I heard that plopping and plunking can assist in reducing frizz during the drying process for a curly. And doing it with flaxseed gel that you make from whole flaxseeds(which I have done -and love)... It helps the curl along while not giving your hair much of an excuse to frizz out...Maybe try this in the spirit of curl aid? As opposed to curl repression? I really hope this helps, you've really had some issues with your hair. I hope everything works out for you soon...:flower:

[zsuper]

Also, my hair is very dirty blonde.
I'd consider it brown, but my bangs have a noticable amount of blonde in them, though it's only really noticable on the rest if you pull a few individual strands out.

It would make sense that it's more noticable, since my hair is darker.

[Flynn]

I didn't have thermal reconditioning; I had a much more gentle treatment done.

I'm actually not sure how coarse my hair is.

Before I had it treated, it was M/C. My stylist had to use a #3 solution for the treatment.
A few days later, I went back and my stylist was out, but another stylist I knew said that she thought my hair was very fine.

I have noticed that since having the treatment done, my scalp is much more visible along my part, so it may be fine. I can't really tell.

O-o-h, sorry, misread.

(;p @Anje: Naah, I just don't read as thoroughly, I think!)

Hm. If it has affected the texture of your hair that much, maybe another chemical treatment wouldn't be wise. I'd talk to your normal stylist about it though... they may have very different ideas of "fine" and "medium/coarse".

[RancheroTheBee]

My hair gets very dry by the second day, too, but oiling and having a little bit of Fox's Conditioning Cream every night helps so much.

[JamieLeigh]

I know everyone's hair is different, but my hair seemed to be more frizzy (i.e., every length of hair, new and old, would stick out farther from my head) when I was using cones. My hair will never be all the same length, no one's ever will, but it is way less noticeable with my no-cone routine. This might not be true for everyone else who has tried cone-free, but it solves so many of my problems: eliminates some of my frizz, increases my circumference and adds wave.

[spidermom]

I find that styling wax, pomade, or putty forces those shorter hairs to lay down. I like Natures Gate Styling Putty.

Also - you might be over-doing it on the cones. I find that I only need to use my coney serum (CHI Silk Infusion) every 3 or 4 washes. The effect (help with detangling) really lasts.

[jojo]

All hair is of different length, each hair is going through a different cycle. If every hair was the exact same length, when we went through the shed part of the cycle we'd be bald for a while!

[GoddesJourney]

If you're using a sulphate shampoo, that could be the culprit. Your hair will always be different lengths, it's just an issue of whether they curl up at the ends and stick out. Cones do this to some people's hair. I found it was damaging to mine if I applied it while my hair was dry, but not really too bad if I applied a small amount while my hair was wet.

[jojo]

I agree with the above poster, cutting out sulphates makes such a huge difference in such a short period. Even diluting shampoo may help.

[kdaniels8811]

I would suggest SMT's and updos. It sounds like you might have breakage which will have your hair a bunch of different lengths. Stopping all heat treatment and heavy moisturizing (catnip soaks and SMT'S) helped my hair to stop breaking. Some people's hair can take heat, mine cannot and used to frizz like you are describing. Keeping it up with the ends tucked under helps to protect it. Good luck!

[Kris Dove]

My hair has this issue too, and I find that using serum helps immensely. Some of it may be breakage, but I think a lot of it is just different growth cycles. It doesn't bother me much unless it's braided, then it starts being frizzy by the end of the day.