The New - 2a F Support thread

[K_Angel]

As a 2a fine, I find it difficult to hone in on the right products and techniques for my hair type.

If I follow a curlier haired products... I get greasy/weighted down hair!

If I follow the straight hair route... I get a tangled mess!

Are there other 2a fines that feel it's a tough hair type to take care of?

What do you all do for your hair to make it work the way you want it to???

Maybe it's just me???? :shrug:

[EvaSimone]

*raises hand* :lol:

It's been two years and I still haven't quite found the routine that works for me.

I can't seem to ever get my hair moisturized enough so I don't really have any tips for other 2a F... just a sympathetic understanding.

I'll be hanging around to see if anyone has figured out a good routine.

[K_Angel]

*raises hand* :lol:

It's been two years and I still haven't quite found the routine that works for me.

I can't seem to ever get my hair moisturized enough so I don't really have any tips for other 2a F... just a sympathetic understanding.

I'll be hanging around to see if anyone has figured out a good routine.
:waving: Hi EvaSimone!

I'm so glad you understand.... lately I've been so frustrated with my hair!

[EvaSimone]

:waving: Hi EvaSimone!

I'm so glad you understand.... lately I've been so frustrated with my hair!

Yep me too! I am actually contemplating going back to cones although I haven't used them in almost 2 years.

I am hoping their is a 2a F haired LHCer who knows all of the answers for our hair type and will post. :pray:

[K_Angel]

Yep me too! I am actually contemplating going back to cones although I haven't used them in almost 2 years.

I am hoping their is a 2a F haired LHCer who knows all of the answers for our hair type and will post. :pray:
Oh my gosh! Me too! After so many "fried hair" with naturals and no cones.... I'm ready to go back to cones like a long lost family member!!!!!! LOL

I tried HE Hydralicious Reconstrucion Conditioner. It was heavenly in it's slip! It was just fabulous the way I could take a big toothed comb through it right away. something that I haven't been able to do for the last two years of no cones!

The only bummer was that it made my hair stick straight. There was nary a curl or a wave left in my hair! I was so bummed!

Tomorrow is wash day, so I'm going to try the next cone conditioner on my list HE Tousle me Softly. Hopefully, it won't be so heavy on my hair???

[K_Angel]

I think one of the things that has happened in my search for good products for my hair, is that I have forgotten my hair is fine.

I know that sounds funny, but I remember that it's wavy, so needs moisture. And other things to treat that....

But I often overlook that the reason why a LOT of products don't work for me like they do for other wavies is because my hair is fine.

:idea: I had an epiphany the other day! :idea: Well, at least I hope it's one......

I've tried a lot of oils and other products for wavy/curly hair and they've been terrible on my hair. And just the other day I realized why........ my hair is fine and is EASILY overwhelmed with products weighing it down.

So, I've decided to try a new tact! A new plan of attack, if you will! :hatchet:

Instead of pursuing moisture so much, I will pursue volume conditioners that also have great slip and moisture...... :shocked:

Ok, so it might not work, but it's my latest theory on what to do with my very unmanageable hair!!!!
:rollin:

So, we'll see if that works or not???????? :shrug:

Anyone else out there in 2a/F land have any theories they've tried and failed or tried and worked????

[EvaSimone]

K_angel good luck with the volumizing angle! When I used cones I used to like Sunsilk volumizing conditioner and shampoo.

As for going back to cones I am still trying to avoid it, my hair always feels coated with cones but dry and tangly without. It's a no win situation for me right now.

I am trying out a coconut milk soak so if that works decently I will post here.

[K_Angel]

K_angel good luck with the volumizing angle! When I used cones I used to like Sunsilk volumizing conditioner and shampoo.

As for going back to cones I am still trying to avoid it, my hair always feels coated with cones but dry and tangly without. It's a no win situation for me right now.

I am trying out a coconut milk soak so if that works decently I will post here.
:wavin: EvaSimone: Over the last year or so I've been nothing but frustrated with trying to keep moisture in my hair.... and I guess I've decided finally to do the cones thing... Maybe I can find one that will not feel so coated?????

I just bought some HE Tousle Me Softly... so, we'll see what happens.

My last cone experiment was HE Hydralicious Reconstruction Conditioner. While wet it was a perfect dream! My hair combed out in 5 times through!!!!!! I was so excited! And then my hair dried.... and there was not even a wave left in the "joint!" My hair was stick straight and thin! What a shocker!!!!!!

I think I only am happy when I think I have an idea that might work! :rollin:

My shampoo is perfect!!!! Now I want to have a perfect conditioner! Is that too much to ask for????? LOL

[EvaSimone]

:wavin: EvaSimone: Over the last year or so I've been nothing but frustrated with trying to keep moisture in my hair.... and I guess I've decided finally to do the cones thing... Maybe I can find one that will not feel so coated?????

I just bought some HE Tousle Me Softly... so, we'll see what happens.

My last cone experiment was HE Hydralicious Reconstruction Conditioner. While wet it was a perfect dream! My hair combed out in 5 times through!!!!!! I was so excited! And then my hair dried.... and there was not even a wave left in the "joint!" My hair was stick straight and thin! What a shocker!!!!!!

I think I only am happy when I think I have an idea that might work! :rollin:

My shampoo is perfect!!!! Now I want to have a perfect conditioner! Is that too much to ask for????? LOL

:lol: good luck! That's one of the other reasons why I don't like cones, it takes most of the wave out of my hair. If you find a conditioner that leaves some wave let me know okay?!? :p

Their is actually a lady that sells homemade shampoos and conditioners here. They are full of good ingredients and have one cone near the end of the list. I've been thinking about buying some but first I have to go back to the farmers market and track her down.

[K_Angel]

I was a VERY good girl and tried every natural hair conditioner I could find... and they all ended disastrously except for your wonderful suggestion of Giovanni products. They saved my hair from being fried. But I want more... maybe I'm being greedy, but I want soft, shiny, tangle free happy hair! :rolleyes:

I just got up and tried the Tousle Me Softly on the ends of my hair.... (I got impatient and couldn't wait! LOL) and it seemed to allow more wave... doesn't feel as weighted down as the the first HE I tried.... but I'll have to wait until my test "patch" fully dries to see what it will do.

If I like how my test feels in the morning I'll do my whole length tomorrow after my shampoo.

Stay tuned for more exciting experiments.......... :rollin:

[Calista]

I have my hair type listed as 2a/F-M, but I think I´m on the finer side of F-M actually. I had very good results with CV shampoo bars and no conditioner, but now that my hair approaches tailbone I find that routine a bit hard on my ends. Currently I´m experimenting with water only again. It makes my hair fabulously soft and heavy (something I am not accustomed to but which I like a lot!), but the look is only so-so at the moment. It looks ok in an updo but definitely isn´t fit to be worn down in public (not that I ever wear my hair down in public anyway...).

[Honestwitness]

I'm a 2A-F and my length is APL. I alternate between CO, CWC, and WC. I use a tiny, tiny bit of oil on my ends. When I shampoo I use either Clairol Shimmer Lights for white hair (has SLS) or Desert Essense Italian Grape (no SLS). For conditioner I use Suave Coconut first (or VO5 Strawberry Champaign) and finish with Garnier Fructis Body Boost.

Here's a pic after CWC with VO5, then Italian Grape, then Body Boost.

I also used Organix Coconut Milk Mousse in this pic. Then scrunched and diffuser-dried on low heat.

http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy154/honestwitness/utf-8BSU1HMDA3ODcuanBn.jpg

I have been pretty happy with this routine. I usually go two to three days between any kind of washing.

[Clarisse]

Finally someone else with the same hair type as me :D

I haven't found the perfect routine for my hair yet, but I've found some routines that works better for my hair than others.

Fabric softener is the product that works best for me - it does not at all pull my hair straight, but it gives a lot of moisture, and keeps static electricity (what is the correct english term for that?) and dryness at bay. I was a little frightened about the idea in the beginning, with all the chemicals and such, but it works great and I haven't noticed any damage from it (yet).

I use shampoo on my scalp only - volumizing shampoos works the best for me. If i don't use fabric softener, I use a volumizing conditioner or no conditioner at all.

I let my hair air dry, and i brush it to give my fine hair a little extra volume. I know that brushes is a no-no for curlies, but it works, and that's the most important thing!

[K_Angel]

Finally someone else with the same hair type as me :D

I haven't found the perfect routine for my hair yet, but I've found some routines that works better for my hair than others.

Fabric softener is the product that works best for me - it does not at all pull my hair straight, but it gives a lot of moisture, and keeps static electricity (what is the correct english term for that?) and dryness at bay. I was a little frightened about the idea in the beginning, with all the chemicals and such, but it works great and I haven't noticed any damage from it (yet).

I use shampoo on my scalp only - volumizing shampoos works the best for me. If i don't use fabric softener, I use a volumizing conditioner or no conditioner at all.

I let my hair air dry, and i brush it to give my fine hair a little extra volume. I know that brushes is a no-no for curlies, but it works, and that's the most important thing!
Fabric softener like the kind you use to wash clothes?

[Babyfine]

My routine is still evolving. I know what you mean about trying to find the balance between moisture and volume. My hair needs moisture but gets weighed down so easily.
Right now I CWC with Nioxin step 3 cleanser and scalp therapy on the rootsand scalp. I shampoo about every 3 days.
From the ears down I switch between Aubrey Organics GPB and Honeysuckle Rose. My hair seems to like protein as it's color treated.
I seem to have a problem with my hair always looking messy when it's down.

[Honestwitness]

So, tell us more about using fabric softener on your hair, Clarisse. How much? What brand? On wet hair or dry? Leave it in or rinse it out? I'm all ears!!

[jivete]

I'm still working on my perfect routine too. I have found some success with using my biolage conditioning balm as a leave-in (just a tiny amount). Argan oil is my oil of choice right now.

On wash days (I primarily CO) my hair is always too fluffy and kind of bleh. If I wait until it dried and then re-mist it & add a little oil, it's much nicer. I have yet to find a routine where it actually dries nice.

I too have thought about going back to cones, but I think they make my hair brittle so I'm hesitant to even try.

ETA: I have my hair type listed as 2b, but it's really 2a/b. It seems to change from day to day.

[Delila]

How'd I miss this thread?

I've had the best success basically by treating my scalp and length differently. I shampoo my scalp, and only put conditioners on my length. At shorter lengths it was a challenge, but nowadays (classic) it's not so bad.

I also tend to double up conditioning, using a fairly heavy conditioner on my length, letting it sit a bit, rinsing, then using a detangling/cream rinse type conditioner, and rinsing again.

I had good results with herb washing, but got kind of tired of it, and haven't gone back to it in several years.

Oh, and for me, volumizing products just make my hair weirdly poufy, and not in a good way.

Lately I've been using Fekkai's shea butter shampoo and conditioner, following with the detangling rinse (now discontinued) from the same line. If I couldn't get the Fekkai, I'd be happy with similar Biolage products.

[saskia_madding]

I listed my hair type as 2c, but honestly, it ranges from 2a to 2c. I have had the same problem with limp hair, but I have finally found a solution that works for me.

The part you won't like - the W in CWC is done with borax water. It gives incredible volume and leave my hair shiny, soft and completely detangled. But it's a hot button topic and the safety surrounding use of borax is highly contested on this board.

The part you might like - The two Cs in CWC are done with Giovanni Nutrifix (http://www.enaturelle.com.au/p/994690/giovanni-nutrifix-hair-reconstructor-200ml.html) and AO Honeysuckle Rose respectively.

For a leave in, the Super Silky by KBB (http://www.karensbodybeautiful.com/product_p/1010.htm) is incredible! It leaves my hair light and not greasy at all, but does wonders for detangling.

On second day hair, I use either a *few* drops of camellia oil, or diluted Aubrey Organics Sea Buckthorn Curl Activator (http://www.holisticbeauty.net/browseproducts/Aubrey-Organics-Sea-Buckthorn-Leave-In-Conditioner---Curl-Activator.HTML).

**the secret** that seems to work for me is adding what others might think is "a lot" of sea buckthorn oil (http://www.mountainroseherbs.com/learn/oilprofile/sea_buckthorn.php) into my conditioner (the AO HR). I put maybe fifteen drops into a small bottle.

I have no idea why this works so well, but it does. It seems to help the conditioner absorb into the shaft better, and then there is very little left to rinse off my hair. It keeps it detangled, smooth, and very well conditioned without weighing it down. If you try any one thing in my routine, this would be the one I'd suggest the most vehemently.

I hope this helps!

[chloeishere]

I've kind of become resigned to losing my wave as my hair gets longer.

By the way, I am typed as F/M, but that's because my hair is not baby-fine, just normal-fine. Compared to my mothers hair, my hair is COARSE. But compared to most anybody else's hair, my hair is fine. I just wanted to clarify that my hair definitely behaves as fine hair.

My hair gets weighed down too easily for me to have waves unless my hair has almost no conditioner, and then it tangles like the dickens and is puffy and horrible anyway. I've decided that, to me, having healthy hair is more important than having wavy hair. Therefore, I use moisturizing products, even if they reduce my wave.

The two products I'm in love with lately (I'm fickle, and I know it now, so that's why I said LATELY) are:

Queen Helene Mint Julep Shampoo concentrate (diluted a lot)
Trader Joe's Nourish Spa conditioner


The Queen Helene, when you have the ratio right (I like it diluted somewhere around where one bottle would make in between 1 "heavy" gallon and 2 "light" gallons), gives me great volume without feeling stripping or damaging at all! It also gets out coconut oil really well, again without stripping or damaging. I use a 3 ounce travel sized bottle with a dishwashing fluid lid, and it's perfect for getting the scalp really clean, without getting a lot of cleaner on the length. I love it a ton, right now. The trick to the volumized roots is not to get any conditioner on the top of the head at all (ears down)... or it will no longer be nice and fluffy.

The Nourish Spa conditioner I just keep coming back to. I've probably had the bottle for a year or so now, and it really just gives me consistently great hair. It's light enough that my hair doesn't look weighed down, but it's moisturizing and gives slip, so detangling isn't a hair-snapping pain in the arse. I finally got another bottle. I do stray, but it is probably the best conditioner that I've found, for my hair. I've heard that it is based on Giovanni's Smooth as Silk conditioner, which I know is also supposed to be great for the fine-haired. But it's a lot cheaper, and you get more, and the bottle doesn't SUCK (I have Giovanni 50/50, but almost never use it because it's such a pain).

Deep treatments are also really key for hair health for me. I recently did a protein deep treatment (with Ion Effective Care treatment mixed with Nature's Gate Henna conditioner, under a heat cap), and realized that my hair really DOES need protein on a regular basis, I hadn't done a protein treatment in about a year, and it made detangling ridiculously easy. Like, as easy as it was before I even hit shoulder length. Protein can decrease the wave, but it's so worth it.
Coconut oil is ideally at least once a week before washing, but I rarely make that interval.

ETA: I used to use leave-in oils all the time (coconut, manor hall shea butter creme, and then camellia oil), but I eventually found that they don't really make my hair feel better, and it gets dirty faster. YMMV, though. I don't use leave in, I just don't rinse conditioner out of the length very well during a shower, and finish with a cool rinse.

ETA: Cones and sulfates are a huge no-no for me. Very limp, nasty feeling hair from cones, and sulfates irritate my scalp, dry out my length, and make me need to wash more often because it makes my scalp very oily.

[Mary <><]

2a/b F/M here. Below is my routine, and until I started doing it this way I NEVER liked my hair. It is all thanks to the wonderful advice here on LHC, of course!

I CWC every 4-5 days. It took me a while to be able to go that long since I used to wash every day, but eventually my oil production did calm down. I use Aubrey Organics shampoo, diluted with water 50&#37; (only on the scalp). I use Suave Tropical Coconut conditioner (cone free). Then I use a mix of 4 TBSP of the Suave conditioner with 1 TBSP of honey and 8 drops of sweet almond oil. I mix that up really well and leave it on while I am doing my other shower duties. Then I rinse with cool water just before coming out of the shower. I also no longer use a towel to dry my hair. I use my DH's white under shirts, LOL! They are so much softer on the hair than a towel. I do not scrub it with the T-shirt, I just gently wrap it. I pull it down shortly after, I only leave it up long enough to absorb the major drippy water. When I pull it down I gently comb it with a wide tooth comb (mine is plastic, I am still in search of a better one I like) and I put it back with a cloth headband with the length hanging down until it is almost completely dry. At the last minute I pull out the headband, and it really works well for me this way! :cheese:

[K_Angel]

I just finished washing my hair with NG Herbal Daily Shampoo (it replaced my CWC habit because it takes the tangles away during washing) and followed it with a glob of glycerin and a heaping handful of HE Tousle Me Softly. I waited 2 minutes and rinsed.

My hair is still wet, so I'll give my evaluation of it at this stage and see what it's like in the morning.

My hair doesn't feel very moisturized. Slip was not exceptional, but the waves are about 1/2 of what they are without cones. Meaning I did get more waves, but it took me about 12 times through with the large tooth comb to detangle. And when I was finished, it seemed like there was always one MORE tangle left. Which I hate, because that usually means that when it dries, it will be tangly everyday until I wash again. If you know what I mean?

Also, the smell (and smells normally don't bother me) is very fake-y! It's some kind of floral and a bit strong. I have a turbie towel on and I can smell it through that!

Anyway, I'll report back tomorrow with the dry version of this silly tale. :)

[Katze]

me too!

I am a fine barely wavy. My hair stays about the level of wave in my avatar pic (though I have lost about 3/4 of that thickness) no matter what I do. I can't seem to get it straight - used to use heat and product - nor does it go really curly.

What bothers me the most is that my hair is always so MESSY. If I put it up, I have lumps and bumps along my crown even if I brush it flat. If it were curly, or even more wavy like my DH's, I would have an 'excuse' - but I feel like I run around with messy hair no matter what. And my taper is so severe that my hair LOOKS damaged even if it isn't. I try to ignore thoughts of what others must think when they see my hair...!

Oh, and my hair isn't fine at my nape, so those hairs, which are curlier, poof out and tend to not want to grow longer than about 5 inches.

When it was thicker it was easier to deal with, I feel. Now that the ends are so thin and tons of new growth sticks up all over, I have difficulty doing anything with it. So I have two updos - up and messy, or up and 'brushed as flat as possible'. I can only braid on dirty, flat, oiled and gelled hair.

More moisture is key for our hair, but so is (IMO) regular deep cleansing. I currently CWC once a week and WO once a week.

Hoping that as I get more thickness I will be able to do more with it again.

[K_Angel]

I just finished washing my hair with NG Herbal Daily Shampoo (it replaced my CWC habit because it takes the tangles away during washing) and followed it with a glob of glycerin and a heaping handful of HE Tousle Me Softly. I waited 2 minutes and rinsed.

My hair is still wet, so I'll give my evaluation of it at this stage and see what it's like in the morning.

My hair doesn't feel very moisturized. Slip was not exceptional, but the waves are about 1/2 of what they are without cones. Meaning I did get more waves, but it took me about 12 times through with the large tooth comb to detangle. And when I was finished, it seemed like there was always one MORE tangle left. Which I hate, because that usually means that when it dries, it will be tangly everyday until I wash again. If you know what I mean?

Also, the smell (and smells normally don't bother me) is very fake-y! It's some kind of floral and a bit strong. I have a turbie towel on and I can smell it through that!

Anyway, I'll report back tomorrow with the dry version of this silly tale. :)
Ok, next morning report:

My hair still has wave to it, but it's much more subtle than usual and there are places where it's actually straight. My hair is about the right thickness. My hair looks kind of messy, which it only sometimes looks like that.

I also noticed that my hair only waves the bottom 6 inches and looks straight from that point up to the top of my head.

I have to admit that it feels soft, kinda shiny, and more tangle free than I expected last night.

I brush my hair because it helps with fullness and a less messy look. I only found about 4 little knots in my hair that I had to work out with my hands. Then was able to brush it all out, with no trouble.

Hair was not too slippery to put in a log roll, my favorite updo.

Ok, now, is this all waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much info???? Is it helpful at all? When I try a new conditioner would you like the same info?

[Honestwitness]

No, K_Angel. That's not too much information. Keep it coming. It really helps to know how others handle the same type of hair.

Mary, I like your idea of using white undershirts to dry your hair. I might try that.

I may go back to more frequent washing. Upon close observation, I have determined that my hair looks better on day one and day two. By day three, it loses bounce and fluffiness. It's still acceptable in that my scalp doesn't look too greasy, but the length doesn't float as much. It sort of hangs stiffly. It's a balancing act, isn't it?

[K_Angel]

No, K_Angel. That's not too much information. Keep it coming. It really helps to know how others handle the same type of hair.

Mary, I like your idea of using white undershirts to dry your hair. I might try that.

I may go back to more frequent washing. Upon close observation, I have determined that my hair looks better on day one and day two. By day three, it loses bounce and fluffiness. It's still acceptable in that my scalp doesn't look too greasy, but the length doesn't float as much. It sort of hangs stiffly. It's a balancing act, isn't it?
I couldn't agree more with the balancing act, idea! In my case, my scalp gets greasy by day three, but my length could do maybe 5 days without being washed.

I've tried to do scalp only washes, but that often results in a huge rats nest just above the ear level in the back of my head.

2a/F hair is definitely finicky!!!! :)

[EvaSimone]

Hi everyone!

I finally have something to add that worked wonderfully for me.

low fat organic Coconut milk!!!

My hair felt soft from roots to ends and not greasy at all, it was lovely.

I mixed 1/4 cup honey, 1/4 cup coconut milk, and 1/4 cup suave champagne kiss conditioner.

I didn't heat it because I am trying to lighten my henna and I didn't care if the honey bleached it a bit. For someone who doesn't want lightening they might want to heat the honey in the microwave for 10-15 seconds. I found this recipe in the honey lightening thread here: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=61811&postcount=262

I sat in the bath tub and got my hair wet and then scrunched most of the wetness out and coated my hair in the mixture. I wrapped it up and then covered it with a few grocery bags and a towel over it and one around my neck to catch the drips.

I sat with it on for around 1.5 hours and then shampooed and conditioned it out. I think it gave my hair the perfect mixture of heavy moisture and light protein. It felt soft and silky, I was amazed.

[EvaSimone]

Also k_angel I like the detailed reports! If you try out another conditioner please share your results! :flowers:

[K_Angel]

My next conditioner will be on the HE Hello Hydration. I was reading the back of the bottle when I realized that the only differences between the Tousle Me Softly and it were: TMS has salt, violet extracts and pomegranate extract. HH has coconut and vanilla extract (yummmmmm my favorite scents!!!!!) and no salt.

And since the TMS smelled and smelled and smelled I was delighted to make this discovery! :) I think I must be allergic to either violets or something, because it made my throat feel itchy and closed up a bit.... sooooooooo, I"m thrilled that Hello Hydration is almost the same.

I wonder if the salt in the Tousle Me Softly was what gave it that "beach" messy look?

Oh and good news for us 2a/F hairs!!!!!!!!!! I've read in three separate "hair trend setting salons" that our hair and the messy look is the next big trend!!!!! yay!!!!!! :rollin: Like that was going to change what I did with my hair :idea: But it's nice to know our hair type is about to become "THE thing!" :happydance:

Maybe that means that every product out there will be made to optimize our hair type???????? Wouldn't that be great!!!!????!!!!! :pray:

Also, I have the ingredients list of the products I've tried... if anyone would like me to post them on this thread?

[K_Angel]

Hi everyone!

I finally have something to add that worked wonderfully for me.

low fat organic Coconut milk!!!

My hair felt soft from roots to ends and not greasy at all, it was lovely.

I mixed 1/4 cup honey, 1/4 cup coconut milk, and 1/4 cup suave champagne kiss conditioner.

I didn't heat it because I am trying to lighten my henna and I didn't care if the honey bleached it a bit. For someone who doesn't want lightening they might want to heat the honey in the microwave for 10-15 seconds. I found this recipe in the honey lightening thread here: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=61811&postcount=262

I sat in the bath tub and got my hair wet and then scrunched most of the wetness out and coated my hair in the mixture. I wrapped it up and then covered it with a few grocery bags and a towel over it and one around my neck to catch the drips.

I sat with it on for around 1.5 hours and then shampooed and conditioned it out. I think it gave my hair the perfect mixture of heavy moisture and light protein. It felt soft and silky, I was amazed.
EvaSimone: Very cool! thanks for the recipe!!! I'm so glad it worked for you!!!!! :cheese:

[Delila]

... Ok, now, is this all waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much info???? Is it helpful at all? When I try a new conditioner would you like the same info?

The more, the merrier. The only way I figured out what seems to work for me was to keep a diary of how my products and hair worked together. In the shower, while wet, after drying, the next day, etc.

[lapushka]

I have 2a F oily hair. Because of the F/oily hair, conditioner is only applied on the lengths; it helps. Routine: WC, plain & simple. Products: mostly sl(e)s free shampoos but I have no problems with sl(e)s shampoos & just about any cheap conditioner. My hair does get weighed down easily by cones or all too moisturizing shampoos / conditioners (it is F/oily). No oils. Jessicurl (http://www.jessicurl.com) styling products (Gelebration Spray & CCSS).

[detritus]

Me too! Me too! My hair seems seems really picky. It's dry and extra moisture helps encourage waves, but too much weighs it down. Either my scalp or my hair (or both) hate sulphates, cones, proteins, glycerin, aloe, and fragrance. Powdered herbs and clay were a disaster. Natural oil soaps seem to do the best, but I worry about damage from a high pH lifting the cuticle. I tested the pH of my Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle Rose shampoo and it was 10! I've tried that and Burt's Bees and shampoo bars and they all make my hair feel sticky and rough in the shower.

I decided to try Alaffia Shea and Honey shampoo and conditioner a few weeks ago and so far I love it. All the ingredients (amazingly) are ones that work for me. They claim to be pH balanced and my hair doesn't get that rough feeling it did with other soap-based shampoos. Smells nice too. I hope it continues to work for me because I'm tired of experimenting.

Other than that, I like camellia oil on my ends. Frequent caramel treatments or heavy overnight oilings. I have a silk pillowcase but need to make or buy a silk sleep cap. I can't get a scarf to stay put all night, but even so it seems to help a lot.

[smilinjenn71]

I am on the less wavy side of 2a, at this time. Waiting to see what it will be with more length. However, my hair is and always will be fine.

Recently I've been CWC because without conditioning before, I can't get the shampoo down to my scalp b/c of thickness. (iii) So the conditioner helps clean off residues and allow the shampoo to penetrate easier. Plus, that way I don't have to use as much poo.

Upon growing out a pixie cut, I started Hendigo-ing my hair. Because of the conditioning effects of henna, it seems I don't have a lot of trouble with my hair being overly dry/tangly. Only when I use too much protein there are issues with tangles. I do wonder if the henna has been helpful in this growing process.:confused:

I use Suave Lavendar Poo & Condish. Post shower I use a mousse for styling and try to air dry every chance I get. Only using my blow-fryer when time is an issue. The one thing that plagues me constantly is the fly-aways....grrrrrrrrrrr!

[K_Angel]

Ok, second experiment I washed my hair with my ol' faithful Nature's Gate Herbal Daily Shampoo. Rinsed, put in a glob of glycerin, tried out Herbal Essence Hello Hydration Conditioner. It's smell is strong, but for my nose, a LOT better than the smell of the Tousle Me Softly.

I just finished combing through my hair. I'm kinda disappointed... HH seemed to have little slip and I had quite a few tangles to work out. And I don't see my waves very much....

I'll see what I see in the morning when it's dry.... and report back. :)

[K_Angel]

Ok, second experiment I washed my hair with my ol' faithful Nature's Gate Herbal Daily Shampoo. Rinsed, put in a glob of glycerin, tried out Herbal Essence Hello Hydration Conditioner. It's smell is strong, but for my nose, a LOT better than the smell of the Tousle Me Softly.

I just finished combing through my hair. I'm kinda disappointed... HH seemed to have little slip and I had quite a few tangles to work out. And I don't see my waves very much....

I'll see what I see in the morning when it's dry.... and report back. :)
:justy: My hair is drying very dry!!! It's icky!!!!! :wail:

When they said Hello Hydration, I didn't know they meant to say hi to moisture as it passed by my hair!!!!! :confused:

Ah well, in a few more days I'll try the next experiment....

Next to try is the Hydralicious Self-targeting conditioner. I hope it works! So far the best was the Tousle Me Softly, but I was allergic to something in it. Because the smell made my throat hurt and then made me feel like my throat was closing and I couldn't breath.

The weirdest thing is that the HH and TMS only had 3 different ingredients. Everything else was the same.... too weird that they acted so differently.

You know, you read ingredients carefully and everything and still you get such different results! :shrug: Go figure! :laugh:

Ok, I'm back to being positive.... I can make it through the testing phase.... I think I can, I think I can, I think I can! :)

[hanne jensen]

My hair is dry as a desert and hates everything. I finally found a no poo poo that's called Essentials Herbal Haircare. It's pricey, but my scalp loves it and my hair accepts it. Other than that, I use lots of coconut oil on the lower half of my hair. I wear my hair up every day to protect the ends and now my hair is finally growing and my hemline looks o.k.

[wavywords]

Another fine-haired wavy here. :)

I tried the CG method, and also no-sulphate, no-cone for a few months, and my hair was miserable. So, I went back to regular shampoo and conditioner. I've settled on Hello Hydration so far, since it doesn't weigh my hair down and has just the right amount of moisture for me. The Tresemme, Dove, and Aussie products I tried have great slip, but do weigh me down.

Other than that, I don't use much else. I always air dry, I henna regularly, and use 3-4 drops of Nightblooming's Anointing Oil on dry hair.

[jojo]

I have baby fine 2a/2b hair and CO washing really helps with my hair, plus keeping it up with lots of oil from ears down.

My hair is also very seasonal and changes its requirements with each season, but in general wintertime means more moisture, yet summer less is more for me anyway!

[K_Angel]

:waving: Hi Wavywords and Jojo!!!!! :)

[K_Angel]

My hair is dry as a desert and hates everything. I finally found a no poo poo that's called Essentials Herbal Haircare. It's pricey, but my scalp loves it and my hair accepts it. Other than that, I use lots of coconut oil on the lower half of my hair. I wear my hair up every day to protect the ends and now my hair is finally growing and my hemline looks o.k.
Is that a Danish brand?

[K_Angel]

I always try a little of whatever conditioner I'm going to try next just on the ends as a test, so I don't fry my whole hair if it's not good.

In my "pre" test of the next conditioner, HE Hydralicous Self-Targeting, it made my ends very very dry and weird.... :shrug: They looked fried.

If you don't mind, I'm going to post the ingredients of each of the ones I've tried and a short "what happened to my hair" to see if you see the offending ingredients???

Hydralicious reconditioning conditioner

Results: flattened hair too much, but great slip/no tangles!!!!! My guess is the shea butter in it was the "flattner," because shea has always been too heavy even in small amounts.

Ingredients: water/eau, stearyl alcohol, dimethicone, behentrimonium chloride, cetyl alcohol, butyrospermum parkii (shea butter) extract, hydrolyzed algae extract, fragrance/parfum, benzyl alcohol, disodium edta, sodium hydroxide, methylchloroisothiazolinone, methylisothiazolinone, red 33, blue 1


Hydralicious Self-targeting conditioner

Results: very very very dry hair. Have no idea what caused it????

Ingredients: water/eau, stearyl alcohol, behentrimonium chloride, cetyl alcohol, dimethicone, vanilla tahitensis fruit extract, aloe barbadensis leaf juice, fragrance/parfum, benzyl alcohol, disodium edta, sodium hydroxide, methylchloroisothiazolinone, methylisothiazolinone, red 33


Hello Hydration Moisturizing conditioner

Results: Very little slip, lots and lots of knots and semi dry hair. I have no idea what my hair hated in this?

Ingredients: water, stearyl alcohol, cetyl alcohol, stearamidopropyl dimethylamine, vanilla planifolia fruit extract, cocos nucifera (coconut) fruit extract, glutamic acid, fragrance, bisaminopropyl dimethicone, benzyl alcohol, edta, propylene glycol, methylchloroisothiazolinone, methylisothiazolinone, citric acid, blue 1


Tousle me softly conditioner

Results: Worked pretty well, but am allergic to something in it; closed my throat. Made my hair soft and very sleek and still sort of heavy and thick feeling (which I actually liked) and waves were still there although less than normal. Why this worked I have no idea. And I'm guessing the violets in it were what I may have been allergic to?

Ingredients: water, stearyl alcohol, cetyl alcohol, stearamidopropyl dimethylamine, viola odorata flower/leaf extract, punica granatum extract, glutamic acid, fragrance, bis-aminopropyl dimethicone, benzyl alcohol, edta, sodium chloride, methylchloroisothiazolinone, methylisothiazolinone, citric acid, blue 1, red 33.


Does anyone see a pattern? It could just be because I'm not a "details" person I missing it?

I'm trying to figure out what conditioner to try next...

[smilinjenn71]

K Angel, have you tried Suave conditioners? For me, it seems to be the least heavy and conditions well. I do notice that if I don't get my ends trimmed every 8-12 weeks they get kinda notty/ratty. I try to snip those splits early and often. When I say trimmed, it's like micro-trimming and really seems to help!

[wavywords]

Has anyone tried HE Totally Twisted on wavy hair? I was curious as to whether it would be moisturizing enough.

[K_Angel]

K Angel, have you tried Suave conditioners? For me, it seems to be the least heavy and conditions well. I do notice that if I don't get my ends trimmed every 8-12 weeks they get kinda notty/ratty. I try to snip those splits early and often. When I say trimmed, it's like micro-trimming and really seems to help!
I've tried their no cone Coconut conditioner (it smells sooooooooooo good!) And I like it for getting the oils out of my hair after a hot oil treatment. But for a regular conditioner, it seemed not quite enough? Is there a particular kind you're thinking of?

[K_Angel]

Has anyone tried HE Totally Twisted on wavy hair? I was curious as to whether it would be moisturizing enough.
I haven't tried it yet, but it was the next one on my list to try.

I noticed when I did a search for it on here, that someone had put a chart of which HE conditioners were the most conditioning and it was on the lower half of the chart. And that chart was from the HE website apparently. :shrug:

But I'm still thinking of trying it.... I'll let you know what my results are, unless you beat me to it. :)

[smilinjenn71]

I just use the simple Suave Lavendar. Seems to do well for me but ya know how that goes...everyone's hair is different!:p

[K_Angel]

I just use the simple Suave Lavendar. Seems to do well for me but ya know how that goes...everyone's hair is different!:p
Does that have cones in it?

[smilinjenn71]

No it does not and it's cheap too! BONUS!!! lol

[Firefly]

I too have lost a lot of my wave as I gain length. :( I'm currently going through an awful phase with my hair. I think it is adjusting to the dry weather (the woodstove doesn't help). I posted about it on my blog and got some great ideas for things to try, so I'll be experimenting too!

[detritus]

I always try a little of whatever conditioner I'm going to try next just on the ends as a test, so I don't fry my whole hair if it's not good.

In my "pre" test of the next conditioner, HE Hydralicous Self-Targeting, it made my ends very very dry and weird.... :shrug: They looked fried.

If you don't mind, I'm going to post the ingredients of each of the ones I've tried and a short "what happened to my hair" to see if you see the offending ingredients???

Hydralicious reconditioning conditioner

Results: flattened hair too much, but great slip/no tangles!!!!! My guess is the shea butter in it was the "flattner," because shea has always been too heavy even in small amounts.

Ingredients: water/eau, stearyl alcohol, dimethicone, behentrimonium chloride, cetyl alcohol, butyrospermum parkii (shea butter) extract, hydrolyzed algae extract, fragrance/parfum, benzyl alcohol, disodium edta, sodium hydroxide, methylchloroisothiazolinone, methylisothiazolinone, red 33, blue 1


Hydralicious Self-targeting conditioner

Results: very very very dry hair. Have no idea what caused it????

Ingredients: water/eau, stearyl alcohol, behentrimonium chloride, cetyl alcohol, dimethicone, vanilla tahitensis fruit extract, aloe barbadensis leaf juice, fragrance/parfum, benzyl alcohol, disodium edta, sodium hydroxide, methylchloroisothiazolinone, methylisothiazolinone, red 33


Hello Hydration Moisturizing conditioner

Results: Very little slip, lots and lots of knots and semi dry hair. I have no idea what my hair hated in this?

Ingredients: water, stearyl alcohol, cetyl alcohol, stearamidopropyl dimethylamine, vanilla planifolia fruit extract, cocos nucifera (coconut) fruit extract, glutamic acid, fragrance, bisaminopropyl dimethicone, benzyl alcohol, edta, propylene glycol, methylchloroisothiazolinone, methylisothiazolinone, citric acid, blue 1


Tousle me softly conditioner

Results: Worked pretty well, but am allergic to something in it; closed my throat. Made my hair soft and very sleek and still sort of heavy and thick feeling (which I actually liked) and waves were still there although less than normal. Why this worked I have no idea. And I'm guessing the violets in it were what I may have been allergic to?

Ingredients: water, stearyl alcohol, cetyl alcohol, stearamidopropyl dimethylamine, viola odorata flower/leaf extract, punica granatum extract, glutamic acid, fragrance, bis-aminopropyl dimethicone, benzyl alcohol, edta, sodium chloride, methylchloroisothiazolinone, methylisothiazolinone, citric acid, blue 1, red 33.


Does anyone see a pattern? It could just be because I'm not a "details" person I missing it?

I'm trying to figure out what conditioner to try next...

All of these contain dimethicone, so I think your hair might not react well to cones. The ones with more (when the dimethicone is listed higher in the ingredient list) worked worst. Did you clarify before trying the last conditioner? My hair looks great the first or second time using cones after I clarify and then hates it once I get a little build up.

[K_Angel]

I too have lost a lot of my wave as I gain length. :( I'm currently going through an awful phase with my hair. I think it is adjusting to the dry weather (the woodstove doesn't help). I posted about it on my blog and got some great ideas for things to try, so I'll be experimenting too!
Looking forward to your reports on experiments! I know I have a double problem, it gets dry up here during the winter, which no Pacific NW person is used to and then I have to keep a dehumidifier in the house. And my hair hates the dryness.

So, I"m excitedly watching for your experiments and what you find out!!! :blossom:

[K_Angel]

Ok, my fellow 2a/F peoples.....

My next experiment has begun.... I can just see you all going :yawn: "Yeah, yeah, great Angel's going to do another one of her looooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggg posts!" :yawn:

And sadly it's true. :laugh:

Ok, this time I tried Herbal Essences Totally Twisted. And when I took my hair down from the towel it had all the old waves, and if I'm not mistaken, more than I'm used to. This was the good news part.

However, even with all the cones in the sucker, it was not great slip. For those of us with what I call "Tangle Bunny" hair (think dust bunny), I really wanted more slip... I want that dream slip where you just threaten your hair with a comb and the tangles drop out immediately. But I digress.... :laugh:

Ok, so the slip wasn't great. I hadn't detangled my hair before washing so, in all fairness there was a few knots in there and were there after the conditioner.

I used a wide tooth comb and it took me about 20 strokes to get through my hair. Not bad, compared to the half hours it used to take me.

With the combing however, I noticed that my hair was going straight. that was kind of bumming me out. :nono:

And when I was putting my hair up in turbie towel I really had the urge to reach into my hair cabinet and look for something else to put in.... isn't that strange?

Since this was a test, I left it as it was, so I could find out what it would do all on it's own.

So, that's my night time version of this test and now I'll have to wait to see if my waves will reappear and if my hair will be soft in the morning.

To be continued.......... :rollin:

[K_Angel]

All of these contain dimethicone, so I think your hair might not react well to cones. The ones with more (when the dimethicone is listed higher in the ingredient list) worked worst. Did you clarify before trying the last conditioner? My hair looks great the first or second time using cones after I clarify and then hates it once I get a little build up.
Yes, I've been clarifying for each test so I could see what it would do on "fresh" hair.

[Honestwitness]

K_Angel, why would you have to use a "de-" humidifier in an already dry house? That will only make the problem worse?

Also, in your ingredient lists I see a lot of alcohols and a few sodium-type ingredients. Both are drying.

I would think you might want to avoid anything that reduces moisture in your environment and in your hair.

[K_Angel]

K_Angel, why would you have to use a "de-" humidifier in an already dry house? That will only make the problem worse?

Also, in your ingredient lists I see a lot of alcohols and a few sodium-type ingredients. Both are drying.

I would think you might want to avoid anything that reduces moisture in your environment and in your hair.
:waving: Hi! Honestwitness!

It's late and I said it wrong. During the fall we have very wet weather and the leaves are falling and that causes mold spores. So I have to have the dehumidifier on constantly. Then when it freezes it gets dry and you are right, at that time I don't need the dehumidifier. I just meant it seems like it's always dry this time of the year for me and my hair. :flower:

[detritus]

Biolage conditioning balm has a lot of slip and is cone-free. You can get a generic version at Sally's too.

[Honestwitness]

K_Angel, I just wanted to say thank you for starting this thread. I subscribed to it immediately, when I first found it. It's so nice to have a place where we "hair sisters and brothers" can share experiments and observations.

Please keep us informed of your valuable research.

[K_Angel]

Honestwitness - How sweet of you to say that. :flower:

Detritus - Talking about the Biolage. Does the slip come with waves too? Or does the slip make it heavy on the hair?

[K_Angel]

Ok, here goes my morning after report on the HE Totally Twisted...

I'm so disappointed. My hair is thin and a bit "wiry" feeling and all the waves are gone this morning. :(

I guess I was expecting too much from it...

The funny thing is, if it weren't for the allergic reaction to the smell of the HE Tousle Me Softly, I would have made that my permanent conditioner right now because in comparison it was doing it all fairly well.
It had decent slip, and kept my waves and my hair felt really thick, moisturized and wonderful.

I wonder how I can figure out what ingredients made that one so special to my hair and look for something that just doesn't have what made me allergic to it?

Off to do more "back of the bottle" reading... :rollin:

[K_Angel]

Me too! Me too! My hair seems seems really picky. It's dry and extra moisture helps encourage waves, but too much weighs it down. Either my scalp or my hair (or both) hate sulphates, cones, proteins, glycerin, aloe, and fragrance. Powdered herbs and clay were a disaster. Natural oil soaps seem to do the best, but I worry about damage from a high pH lifting the cuticle. I tested the pH of my Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle Rose shampoo and it was 10! I've tried that and Burt's Bees and shampoo bars and they all make my hair feel sticky and rough in the shower.

I decided to try Alaffia Shea and Honey shampoo and conditioner a few weeks ago and so far I love it. All the ingredients (amazingly) are ones that work for me. They claim to be pH balanced and my hair doesn't get that rough feeling it did with other soap-based shampoos. Smells nice too. I hope it continues to work for me because I'm tired of experimenting.

Other than that, I like camellia oil on my ends. Frequent caramel treatments or heavy overnight oilings. I have a silk pillowcase but need to make or buy a silk sleep cap. I can't get a scarf to stay put all night, but even so it seems to help a lot.
Wow! That's kind of hard with all those things your hair doesn't like.

I'm beginning to be suspicious that my hair doesn't like aloe either...

It's interesting that your fine hair doesn't get weighted down with the shea. But maybe because it's in a shampoo form it's a good balance?

I"m so glad you've found something that works for you!!!! :cheese:

[jivete]

I don't think my hair likes aloe either. It seems much drier when I use it.

[jivete]

Biolage conditioning balm has a lot of slip and is cone-free. You can get a generic version at Sally's too.

This is, by far, my favorite conditioner. I use it as a leave-in too. I use the Sally's version.

[K_Angel]

This is, by far, my favorite conditioner. I use it as a leave-in too. I use the Sally's version.
I think I tried the Biolage (Sally's version). I wish I had kept better records, but on the other hand, I've now found the shampoo I'm happy with, so it may not have worked with whatever shampoo I was working with at the time.... :shrug:

Hmmmmmmmmmm, I'm starting to circle the Sally's store in town... :rollin:

I'm going to try one more store brand first..... Loreal Pro Nutri gloss conditioner for med. To Long hair that’s curly/wavy – pink bottle with blue square of writing.

After that I'm going to start the Sally's shelves buying. :laugh:

[detritus]

Wow! That's kind of hard with all those things your hair doesn't like.

I'm beginning to be suspicious that my hair doesn't like aloe either...

It's interesting that your fine hair doesn't get weighted down with the shea. But maybe because it's in a shampoo form it's a good balance?

I"m so glad you've found something that works for you!!!! :cheese:

Well, the shea does weigh it down somewhat but makes my hair SO soft. I really loved using it when my hair was really short because it worked kind of like a pomade. It's too thick now for a leave-in, but I love it for overnight oilings and obviously like it when formulated in shampoos and conditioners.

The Biolage balm didn't really encourage or discourage waves for me, but it doesn't seem as moisturizing as I need. Very, very slippy though.

I'm undecided on the Alaffia. I started to get that familar "rough" feeling after a few washes. I suspect it just builds up quickly. I'm actually really loving my Whole Foods 365 conditioner, so I may try their shampoo when I use up a few bottles in the shower.

[Demetrue]

I am pretty sure my hair loves honey. I have been heating up a little cup of Suave Coconut conditioner, than stirring in 3 tablespoons honey, slathering it all over my hair and bagging for 30 minutes to an hour. Then I rinse it out and use more Suave Coconut conditioner to CO once or twice. Then I use a wide-toothed comb, rub a dime size drop of John Frieda Thermal protectant serum into my palms and then pat my hands on my hair starting at the ends and working up. Then flip my head over and blow dry on cool for 2 -3 minutes, holding the blow dryer two feet from my head with one hand, constantly moving it and just lifting the wet hair up from the roots/scalp with the other. Then let it air dry, lifting my hair up away from the scalp every now and then. I gotta say, my hair looks much better with that routine than with any kind of shampoo and conditioner I've ever used before.

[K_Angel]

*Hijack* Happy Thanksgiving for all those in the U.S. :flower:

[wendyg]

Here's what works for me. No cones. Light washing (with a synthetic non-soap bar like Aveeno) couple of times a week. No conditioner. Rub in small amount of Phyto 9 while hair still wet. Comb out and let dry. I have hard water, so I have a shower filter and do a final rinse with a half-gallon of the shower water with a tablespoon or two of lemon juice in it.

wg

[wavywords]

I ended up not having too much luck with the HE products. :( The good news is that Dove seems to be working for me again. I chose a slightly less heavy conditioner than before (I had tried the intense therapy in the dark blue bottle), and it's made a world of difference. I do need the silicones, but I've learned not to overdo it with the heavy conditioners. I'm using the Moisturizing Color Therapy one, and it hydrates well without weighing my hair down.

[K_Angel]

I ended up not having too much luck with the HE products. :( The good news is that Dove seems to be working for me again. I chose a slightly less heavy conditioner than before (I had tried the intense therapy in the dark blue bottle), and it's made a world of difference. I do need the silicones, but I've learned not to overdo it with the heavy conditioners. I'm using the Moisturizing Color Therapy one, and it hydrates well without weighing my hair down.
I'm sorry the HE conditioners didn't work for you. :grouphug:

Dove, huh????? Well, maybe I need to give it a try. I'm going to go look up the ingredients list. :)

[K_Angel]

Because of all my experiments lately I decided to use the Giovanni again. It worked, but it leaves my hair feeling "fragile," if that makes sense.

I guess my hair really likes cones. At least it likes the protection cones give it. And they seem to hold the moisture in better. :shrug:

I tried Loreal Pro Nutri gloss conditioner for med. To Long hair that’s curly/wavy – pink bottle with blue square of writing. It left my hair very dry and nasty. Have no idea what was in it that did that, but my hair did not like it.

Ingredients:
Water (Agua), Behentrimonium Chloride, Stearyl Alcohol, Cetyl Alcohol, Elaeis Guineensis (Palm) Oil, Glycerin, Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine, Fragrance (Parfum), Octyldodecanol, Methylparaben, Hydroxyethylcellulose, Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Oil, Citric Acid, Myristyl Alcohol, Chlorhexidine Dihydrochloride, Limonene, Hexyl Cinnamal, Butylphenyl Methylpropional, Linalool, Citronellol, Alpha Isomethyl Ionone, Hydrolyzed Conchiolin Protein, Red 33 (CI 17200)

I am currently doing a test of the last 4 inches of my hair with Sally's generic version of the Paul Mitchell Lavender Mint conditioner. So far, the worse part of it is the smell. It smells like some stomach medicine to me.... like Maalox I think it's called. So, although I could live with the smell... it's not the best associations. :laugh:

So far it's ok, but unless it gets wavy during the night, it has straightened my hair... but we'll see what happens by morning.

[K_Angel]

Well, the shea does weigh it down somewhat but makes my hair SO soft. I really loved using it when my hair was really short because it worked kind of like a pomade. It's too thick now for a leave-in, but I love it for overnight oilings and obviously like it when formulated in shampoos and conditioners.

The Biolage balm didn't really encourage or discourage waves for me, but it doesn't seem as moisturizing as I need. Very, very slippy though.

I'm undecided on the Alaffia. I started to get that familar "rough" feeling after a few washes. I suspect it just builds up quickly. I'm actually really loving my Whole Foods 365 conditioner, so I may try their shampoo when I use up a few bottles in the shower.
Is the Alaffia still up in the air as to whether your hair is liking it or not?

[wavywords]

I'm sorry the HE conditioners didn't work for you. :grouphug:

Dove, huh????? Well, maybe I need to give it a try. I'm going to go look up the ingredients list. :)

I really like the Dove line so far. Both the Moisturizing Color Therapy (which might only be called that here in Canada, since I didn't see it on the Dove U.S. website) and the Daily Moisture (white bottle, blue cap) are very nice. Moisture and slip without too much weight for fine hair. :)

[detritus]

Is the Alaffia still up in the air as to whether your hair is liking it or not?

Yeah, I'm still not sure. It doesn't make my scalp horribly itchy, which a lot of shampoos do. However, after a few washes I started getting that coated, squeeky feeling that soap-based cleansers always seem to get. One of the big curl experts (Massey? I can't remember where I read it now) is now whole-heartedly anti-soap. So, I dunno. It makes me a little concerned.

[detritus]

Ah ha! Here's the post I'm thinking of:
http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/curlchemist-porosity-and-curly-hair

My hair seems fairly porous so I'm seriously considering stopping the soap-based shampoos.

[K_Angel]

Detritus: Wow! Great article!

I think based on that article, my problem is low porosity, actually. She described me exactly. I have a hard time getting the moisture in. My hair likes protein but can definitely be overwhelmed with it and turn to straw. But that would also explain why, if that happens it's so hard to get the moisture treatment into it. And it's true, a deep treatment with a bit of heat does wonders for my hair, which means that it's the heat that lifts the cuticle a bit more than usual. Not to mention, my hair repels water if I just stick it in water. Very very interesting!

Now, with all that new information..... I guess one of the solutions for me would be more DT with heat. Which frankly, I've been lazy about.

Detritus: Does she have any suggestions for your high porosity hair? :flower:

[detritus]

Basically, no soaps or sulfates, a little protein, and lots of moisture. I have actually noticed better results with proteins now than when I first joined here--probably because I've ramped up the moisture so much. I do a moisture treatment once every 1-2 weeks.

[K_Angel]

I was just reading an article on "fine wavies" and most of the information was garbage because it was a hair dresser who advocates that we should never have long hair because *blah* blah blah... And thinks that you must color your hair so you can rough up the cuticle so your hair looks fuller. Anyway, of all the junk that person advocated they did have one thing I thought was interesting....

They said to think of wavy hair in "layers" (not in the cutting sense of the word). They thought you could do better by using a detangler rather than a conditioner. And that you should start with a small amount of hydrating cream for the "first layer" followed by the detangler, so that you would not "product overload" your hair and weigh it down. Basically advocating that trying to do it in an "all-in-one" doesn't work well for our hair type.

I wonder if that would work????? What do you all think?????

[K_Angel]

Well, after just trying the Sally generic of Paul Mitchell's Lavender Mint Conditioner, I just want to cry! :( So, I guess the answer would be "Yes, I'd like a little whine with my cheese!" :laugh:

I'm just sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo frustrated!!!!!! :justy:

Ok, I'm calming down.... but it's so upsetting when you try product after product and can't get it right!

And then it didn't help that the Paul Mitchell stuff made my hair tangle like there was no tomorrow. Oh, my hair feels moisturized at this point.... but it was an ugly moisturized matted mess!!! I couldn't get it combed through, so I cheated on my experiment and went to an old friend in my cabinet called Joico Elixir thing I bought a hundred years ago. It's too heavy for my hair and tomorrow my hair is going to look like it needs washing again, but at least it saved me from an hour of detangling my hair!!!

By bailing myself out with the Joico Elixir stuff, it means I won't get a good "reading" on the PM conditioner..... Which in the wet state, seemed like it had moisturized well, there were definitely long clumps of wavy hair forming. But the rats nests I kept coming up against as I tried to big tooth comb it were terrible. And all that was when I had gone to a lot of trouble to detangle all of my hair BEFORE I went and washed it. :wail:

:rolleyes: Sorry to whine so much.... I'm just feeling a little discouraged right now, in finding the right product/s for my hair.....

If I purse moisture, it usually doesn't do anything for my detangling problem. If I try to get more of a detangler, I end up with not enough moisture.

I want moisture to make my waves happy and healthy.

I want soft hair.

I want detangled hair, so I don't lose so much of it hacking through the tangles. But most detanglers flatten my hair.

I want my waves.

[Velvettt]

How did I miss this thread? I have super fine hair, wavy hair. For most of my life, it was short and I always used heavy shampoos and conditioners. After I found LHC, I tried no cone and CO washing and discovered I have wavy hair. Wow. Who'd a thunk it?

Like the rest of you, I'm perpetually in search of more moisture for my ends, but unable to use heavy stuff or my hair goes limp and lank. I've tried a ton of stuff. I actually discovered that I have to rotate products so I don't use anything more than twice in a row or I get problems.

Currently, I use shampoo and conditioner but no regular leave in. All shampoos are diluted 50-50 with water. Most conditioners are, too.

Right now, I'm using Hask Stay Blonde shampoo, Giovanni TTTT shampoo, or Aubrey Organics Men's Biotin shampoo. Not at the same time, of course! Those are my three in rotation.

My conditioners are L'Oreal Ever Pure, Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle Rose, or any VO5 except Kiwi Lime, which my hair hates.

If I use a leave in, it's Aubrey Organics Sea Buckthorn Curl Activator, which certainly does not activate any curls in my hair.

My scalp hates oil and my hair will fall out in a horrid shed if I try oils on my head. I can use them on my ends, but I have to wash more frequently or my hair tangles into a nightmare with lint getting caught in the oil and creating cement.

[wavywords]

I was just reading an article on "fine wavies" and most of the information was garbage because it was a hair dresser who advocates that we should never have long hair because *blah* blah blah... And thinks that you must color your hair so you can rough up the cuticle so your hair looks fuller. Anyway, of all the junk that person advocated they did have one thing I thought was interesting....

They said to think of wavy hair in "layers" (not in the cutting sense of the word). They thought you could do better by using a detangler rather than a conditioner. And that you should start with a small amount of hydrating cream for the "first layer" followed by the detangler, so that you would not "product overload" your hair and weigh it down. Basically advocating that trying to do it in an "all-in-one" doesn't work well for our hair type.

I wonder if that would work????? What do you all think?????

I don't know... :shrug: I think it comes down to the individual's hair. I do best with just shampoo and conditioner, and no extra products. I detangle in the shower, when I have the conditioner on, and don't touch it afterwards with a comb (unless I want to define my side part).

I like moisturizing conditioners, but have to steer clear away from ones that condition too much. So for the Dove products I'm using, I avoid the one in the dark blue bottle (Intense Repair, I think it's called) and just go for the Daily Moisture or Color Moisture. They're working wonders for me. :)

I've tried leave-ins and oils, and they just made my hair terribly limp. The exception is Nightblooming's Anointing Oil, of which I use 2-3 drops once in a while.

Hang in there, K_Angel! You'll find something that suits your hair. :flower:

[K_Angel]

Thanks Wavywords for the encouraging message! :blossom:

[K_Angel]

What to try next is the big question looming in my brain right now....

The Sally's Paul Mitchell-a-like (Lavender Mint conditioner) is the first time I've ever had a huge rat's nest in my hair and it was SUPER moisturized, all at the same time! :rollin: Normally, that kind of rat's nest is saved only for the things that dry out my hair. :shrug:

Back to the drawing board! :)

I'm sort of "circling" Sally's GVP Conditioning Balm: Compare to Matrix Biolage Conditioning Balm, right now.....

I think Detritus said it didn't take out her waves and had great slip.... soooooooooo, I"m thinking this is next on my list.......

I'll keep you all posted! :flower:

[K_Angel]

How did I miss this thread? I have super fine hair, wavy hair. For most of my life, it was short and I always used heavy shampoos and conditioners. After I found LHC, I tried no cone and CO washing and discovered I have wavy hair. Wow. Who'd a thunk it?

Like the rest of you, I'm perpetually in search of more moisture for my ends, but unable to use heavy stuff or my hair goes limp and lank. I've tried a ton of stuff. I actually discovered that I have to rotate products so I don't use anything more than twice in a row or I get problems.

Currently, I use shampoo and conditioner but no regular leave in. All shampoos are diluted 50-50 with water. Most conditioners are, too.

Right now, I'm using Hask Stay Blonde shampoo, Giovanni TTTT shampoo, or Aubrey Organics Men's Biotin shampoo. Not at the same time, of course! Those are my three in rotation.

My conditioners are L'Oreal Ever Pure, Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle Rose, or any VO5 except Kiwi Lime, which my hair hates.

If I use a leave in, it's Aubrey Organics Sea Buckthorn Curl Activator, which certainly does not activate any curls in my hair.

My scalp hates oil and my hair will fall out in a horrid shed if I try oils on my head. I can use them on my ends, but I have to wash more frequently or my hair tangles into a nightmare with lint getting caught in the oil and creating cement.
:waving: Hi Velvettt!!!! Welcome!!!! :)

[K_Angel]

I went to Sally's Friday and they were all out of the GVP Biolage Balm stuff.
The shelves were full except for that one product!

When I asked the clerk about their next shipment she replied Thursday. That is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo long to wait!

Meanwhile, after my last hair trauma, I've done a DT with a heat cap.
I figured I better be kind to my hair after what
it went through last time. :laugh:

I was wondering, I don't really have any problem with frizzy hair....
Do any of you?

[detritus]

I was wondering, I don't really have any problem with frizzy hair....
Do any of you?

Occasionally. When my hair is very clean, it doesn't have a lot of weight so can be very fly away and frizzy. It's a little frizzy right now because I decided to clarify a couple days ago. I've been having sticky ends for the last couple weeks, so I went to Sally's and bought some Malibu clarifying crystals and a protein treatment too. Of course, I had to do a deep conditioning treatment after that. Haha, my hair was wet nearly all day. Anyway, the clarifying and the protein made my hair a little frizzy. I keep adding more oil and conditioner to reduce that but I suspect it'll take some time for my hair to recover.

[blueroses79]

Joining this thread late.

Re:frizz. It totally depends. My hair can go from flat if it's totally weighted down to curly (towards the bottom). But it only ever seems frizzy to me when it's drying and part of it is still slick from being wet, but other strands are dry and flying away. (I have a lot of different lengths now.) But if I just wash it and put nothing in it at all, it all dries equally fluffy--which doesn't really seem 'frizzy' to me because...it's all fluffy. I kind of like that look, though it's not as shiny and sleek as it can be when I put leave-ins in it.

My hair is a weird mixture of fine & coarse BTW (the conclusion of my recent thread about mystery 'head pubes.')

[jivete]

My hair is usually frizzy right after I wash (any type including CO) and it usually means my water is too hot. Unfortunately in the winter I have a hard time washing with tepid water. Warm is about as cool as I can get when it's cold outside.

[K_Angel]

Welcome Blueroses79! :waving:

What is your current hair routine?

[K_Angel]

Interesting about the frizzies.... My hair can get "fly away" but to me that's not the same as frizziness.

And I relate to the "fluffy" comment. My hair gets fluffy. But I like that about our hair type. :)

Actually, come to think of it, there is one time when my hair does get frizzy. If I braid my hair when wet and let it dry for a day, when I take it out, at the bottom it gets frizzy, where the waves are "tighter" together.

[blueroses79]

Welcome Blueroses79!

What is your current hair routine?

It's a bit up in the air right now. Trying to deal with the coarse hairs on my crown I went CG (also kind of hoping it would bring out the curl, which so far hasn't happened). I usually wash with a no-poo poo (Trader Joe's or Shikai Color Reflect), condition with Giovanni 50/50 (which isn't that impressive, but it's inoffensive). I use a little of that as leave-in and add Inecto Coconut Oil Smoothing Lotion--which contains cones but makes my hair look like this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/owlofminerva/Heap&#37;20of%20Images/IMG_1000.jpg

(I don't have many pics of just the back of my head yet.)

[Velvettt]

I hate braid waves because the tassel hair always looks like dried out frizz even if it's moisturized and smooth. It's the contrast between the waves and the straight ends. If I don't braid, though, the ends are wavy. :shrug: Can't win.

[jivete]

I hate braid waves because the tassel hair always looks like dried out frizz even if it's moisturized and smooth. It's the contrast between the waves and the straight ends. If I don't braid, though, the ends are wavy. :shrug: Can't win.

I agree. After I braid, I always have this desire to cut because the ends look so funky. I have to remind myself that it's because of the braid, not because my ends have suddenly disintegrated. :rolleyes:

[Honestwitness]

Hi, Jivete! Lovely weather we're having here in KC, today, huh?

We'll have to have a KC meet one of these days!

[lapushka]

I hate braid waves because the tassel hair always looks like dried out frizz even if it's moisturized and smooth. It's the contrast between the waves and the straight ends. If I don't braid, though, the ends are wavy. :shrug: Can't win.

This might help with that - great idea for braid ends!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0NMLSUICp4

[K_Angel]

This might help with that - great idea for braid ends!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0NMLSUICp4
Great Video! Thanks! :)

I never thought of using perm papers for the ends....

Isn't she an LHCer? What's her name on here?

[K_Angel]

I went and bought some of the Walgreens version of the Biolage Balm stuff. Sally's was out of theirs until Thursday. And I'm testing it on the last few inches of my hair tonight.

Interestingly, right now, while it's still damp, it doesn't "feel" like it has a lot of slip. :shrug: I'm sort of surprised about that.

I'll see what it's like in the morning... and if my hair feels nice, I'll try it on all of my hair and report my findings. :)

[K_Angel]

I went and bought some of the Walgreens version of the Biolage Balm stuff. Sally's was out of theirs until Thursday. And I'm testing it on the last few inches of my hair tonight.

Interestingly, right now, while it's still damp, it doesn't "feel" like it has a lot of slip. :shrug: I'm sort of surprised about that.

I'll see what it's like in the morning... and if my hair feels nice, I'll try it on all of my hair and report my findings. :)
Ok, I take it back! My hair feels good now and big tooth combed out nicely! Guess I was just being spastic! After a while, it started feeling better. (Maybe that whole low porosity thing????)

Anyway, I'm pleased with the "wet" outcome. And it gave me great waves!!!!! :cheese:

I'll report back after I've done my whole hair. :)

[K_Angel]

Ah ha! Here's the post I'm thinking of:
http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/curlchemist-porosity-and-curly-hair

My hair seems fairly porous so I'm seriously considering stopping the soap-based shampoos.
Detritus: Have you thought about making a separate thread on this topic? It's a great article. And it would be interesting to see what others do to combat their particular porosity level... :shrug: Just a thought. :flower:

[jivete]

Hi, Jivete! Lovely weather we're having here in KC, today, huh?

We'll have to have a KC meet one of these days!

Bleh. Lovely indeed. So lovely, it prompted me to book a last minute trip out of town this weekend. :D A KC meet should definitely be planned. I'm voting for a warmer time of year though.

I loved the video. I think when I braid my hair tonight, I'll try using a curler on the end. I don't have papers, but I have those bendy foam ones. I'm having this huge urge to trim again and I'm trying to fight it.

[K_Angel]

Bleh. Lovely indeed. So lovely, it prompted me to book a last minute trip out of town this weekend. :D A KC meet should definitely be planned. I'm voting for a warmer time of year though.

I loved the video. I think when I braid my hair tonight, I'll try using a curler on the end. I don't have papers, but I have those bendy foam ones. I'm having this huge urge to trim again and I'm trying to fight it.
Cool! Let us know how your test goes with the braids and curlers! :)

[K_Angel]

Ok, I take it back! My hair feels good now and big tooth combed out nicely! Guess I was just being spastic! After a while, it started feeling better. (Maybe that whole low porosity thing????)

Anyway, I'm pleased with the "wet" outcome. And it gave me great waves!!!!! :cheese:

I'll report back after I've done my whole hair. :)
Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhh :cry:

Now that my hair is dry it's not so good. :no: It's still a bit dry and it is stringy like I've never seen before!!!!!!!!! :justy:

I soooooooooooooooooooo wanted this to be the "one!"

Back to the drawing board! :(

[jivete]

Cool! Let us know how your test goes with the braids and curlers! :)

Unfortunately, the curlers I have are too thick for my length. To roll them, I get a curler too close to my head. I may try putting a rag curl on the ends.

I really should be wearing my hair up more as it is though, so the nice thing about day 2 and my funky braid waves, is it encourages me to put the hair up because it doesn't look so hot down. I might try it on weekends, when I actually go 3 days between washes.

[detritus]

K_Angel, have you tried the Whole Foods 365 conditioners? They make my hair super soft. They are pretty light, so I always use oil on my ends after, but since your hair apparently needs less moisture than mine, they might work really well for you.

[K_Angel]

Unfortunately, the curlers I have are too thick for my length. To roll them, I get a curler too close to my head. I may try putting a rag curl on the ends.

I really should be wearing my hair up more as it is though, so the nice thing about day 2 and my funky braid waves, is it encourages me to put the hair up because it doesn't look so hot down. I might try it on weekends, when I actually go 3 days between washes.
I've never tried rag curlers. How much of a difference do they make as compared to normal curlers?

[K_Angel]

K_Angel, have you tried the Whole Foods 365 conditioners? They make my hair super soft. They are pretty light, so I always use oil on my ends after, but since your hair apparently needs less moisture than mine, they might work really well for you.
Unfortunately, the closest Whole Foods store is 2 hours North of here. (bummer!)

I use a little camellia japonica oil on my hair from time to time. It's one of the oils that doesn't just sit on top of my hair being funky. The only other that works, but only as a hot oil treatment, is jojoba.

I keep thinking about the porosity article you shared with us. If my hair needs something, ie. moisture or etc at the time, then some how I have to leave it on there long enough to get into the hair. And maybe that's why cones have always worked for me? :shrug: In one way, they keep all that stuff in there longer.... it's a theory anyway.... :confused:

[Demetrue]

Instead of perm end papers, I used a tissue or piece of toilet paper to hold the ends together before I rag roll my hair.

[Velvettt]

Don't worry about not having a Whole Paycheque around. I was just moaning in my blog yesterday about how I can't use up the big bottle of their crappy conditioner no matter how much I glop on for preshampoo treatments. I can't use it for anything else. Crappy stuff.

[K_Angel]

Don't worry about not having a Whole Paycheque around. I was just moaning in my blog yesterday about how I can't use up the big bottle of their crappy conditioner no matter how much I glop on for preshampoo treatments. I can't use it for anything else. Crappy stuff.

:rollin: It's funny how even with our hair types all being the "same,"
our hair still responds to different products in various ways!
Apparently this one is no different! :rollin:

[blueroses79]

Have any of you fine-haired peeps had problems with your hair being bent by clips?

Last night I put my hair up in 2 twists to dry instead of my usual one (I don't do braids because my hair is very suggestible, and braids result in weird angles instead of waves with me). If I do 2 tight twists and let it completely dry that way and then don't brush it, I get spirals; but I almost never manage not to brush. Anyway, to hold one of them I used an alligator-type clip--just metal--and my finer hairs on that side came out permanently bent. (Ah. That's why I stopped using this clip.... :doh:) I probably won't be buying any pretty Ficcares.

[K_Angel]

Have any of you fine-haired peeps had problems with your hair being bent by clips?

Last night I put my hair up in 2 twists to dry instead of my usual one (I don't do braids because my hair is very suggestible, and braids result in weird angles instead of waves with me). If I do 2 tight twists and let it completely dry that way and then don't brush it, I get spirals; but I almost never manage not to brush. Anyway, to hold one of them I used an alligator-type clip--just metal--and my finer hairs on that side came out permanently bent. (Ah. That's why I stopped using this clip.... :doh:) I probably won't be buying any pretty Ficcares.
I haven't had any problems that way, but when I use bobby pins, I often have trouble getting them out of my hair and I get bent and broken hairs that way! I hate it when that happens!

Sometimes I think fine hair seems almost "fragile" at times. :shrug:

I'm sorry for your recent bends. :grouphug:

[jivete]

Have any of you fine-haired peeps had problems with your hair being bent by clips?

Last night I put my hair up in 2 twists to dry instead of my usual one (I don't do braids because my hair is very suggestible, and braids result in weird angles instead of waves with me). If I do 2 tight twists and let it completely dry that way and then don't brush it, I get spirals; but I almost never manage not to brush. Anyway, to hold one of them I used an alligator-type clip--just metal--and my finer hairs on that side came out permanently bent. (Ah. That's why I stopped using this clip.... :doh:) I probably won't be buying any pretty Ficcares.

My hair is very suggestible and does tend to get bent in weird ways.

[Velvettt]

Absolutely. Fine hair is more fragile than the others and things that don't bother medium or coarse hair can make fine hair look crappy. I can't use foam rollers for that reason. No matter how I try to anchor them, I get marks.

[K_Angel]

Have any of you tried Amish hair pins (I think that's what they are called? They look like giant U's) I've never bought any because I was concerned that my fine hair would not hold them in?

A lot of the barrettes and things don't really stay in my hair either... But maybe that's just my hair?? Or is it a fine hair thing?

[K_Angel]

Oh, I did a test on the last 4 inches of my hair with some of the L'Oreal Natures Therapy Mega Moisture Nurturing Creme, from Sally's. It was too heavy on my hair. Probably the oil in it. Oils tend to be too heavy on my hair, but I thought just a little might not be too bad. :doh: I was wrong. :rollin:

For those interested, here are the ingredients:

Water, Cetearyl Alcohol, Behentrimonium Chloride, Glycerin, Amodimethicone, Cetyl Esters, Sodium PCA, Fragrance, Methylparaben, Trideceth-12, Sunflower Seed Oil, Chlorhexidine, Dihydrochloride, Cetrimonium Chloride, Yellow 5.

[K_Angel]

I am on the less wavy side of 2a, at this time. Waiting to see what it will be with more length. However, my hair is and always will be fine.

Recently I've been CWC because without conditioning before, I can't get the shampoo down to my scalp b/c of thickness. (iii) So the conditioner helps clean off residues and allow the shampoo to penetrate easier. Plus, that way I don't have to use as much poo.

Upon growing out a pixie cut, I started Hendigo-ing my hair. Because of the conditioning effects of henna, it seems I don't have a lot of trouble with my hair being overly dry/tangly. Only when I use too much protein there are issues with tangles. I do wonder if the henna has been helpful in this growing process.:confused:

I use Suave Lavendar Poo & Condish. Post shower I use a mousse for styling and try to air dry every chance I get. Only using my blow-fryer when time is an issue. The one thing that plagues me constantly is the fly-aways....grrrrrrrrrrr!

What type of mousse do you use?

[K_Angel]

I too have lost a lot of my wave as I gain length. :( I'm currently going through an awful phase with my hair. I think it is adjusting to the dry weather (the woodstove doesn't help). I posted about it on my blog and got some great ideas for things to try, so I'll be experimenting too!
Firefly: Would you repost here any of your successful experiments? It would great to hear what's working for you! :)

[K_Angel]

What do you guys use for your deep conditioning?

[Velvettt]

I use several different things for deep conditioning but you're going to laugh over what I used last week:


L'Oreal Natures Therapy Mega Moisture Nurturing Creme


which did a perfect job on my hair. :rollin:

[K_Angel]

Velvettt: That is hilarious!!!!!!! :laugh:

[smilinjenn71]

Garnier Mousse. Quite frankly, I'm too cheap to spend a lot of money on my hair products and seem to get along just fine with cheap versions. Guess I'll stick to my cheapo's!

[Honestwitness]

I like Garnier Fructis products, too -- especially the Body Boost conditioner.

[Honestwitness]

Yes, I get crimps from anything I put in my hair.

Yes, I get broken hairs, when I try to remove even innocent-looking bobby pins.

Yes, I have great difficulty getting any kind of hair toys to stay in my hair. Side combs stay in the best. However, they make a lump that looks rather unattractive.

I even get broken hairs from covered elastics with no metal in them.

If I were to cut back to where there are no broken hairs so I would have a truly blunt hemline, I would have to go back to somewhere between chin-length and shoulder-length.

But, I'm not at all interested in doing that at this point. Rather, I'm seeking ways I can camouflage the fact that my right side has some serious sparseness, due to the strap on my shoulder bag. I was SOOO stupid in assuming I could hike up the heavy bag onto my shoulder and THEN pull my hair out from under the strap. *cringe*

I got to really looking at my hair one day and realized what I had done to myself. I had no inkling jus

t how fragile my hair really is. I haven't had hair this long in over 30 years, so I didn't know just how fragile it was. I also think it's more fragile now that it's mostly white.

[K_Angel]

Garnier Mousse. Quite frankly, I'm too cheap to spend a lot of money on my hair products and seem to get along just fine with cheap versions. Guess I'll stick to my cheapo's!
You know, I really don't think it's being cheap. I think it's getting something that works and not getting ripped off by a fancy label. :shrug:

If something super inexpensive works, why pay a bunch more cash for something more trendy/designer-ish??

Maybe that's just me? :blossom:

[K_Angel]

And just to clarify, since I've never used mousse/gel/etc...,
what do these products do for your hair?
Make it more wavy? Or?

[Honestwitness]

Mousse/gel makes my scrunched waves stay all day. However, I sometimes feel my hair needs just a little bit more moisture after it's finished drying, especially in winter, so I will put a tiny glob of conditioner in my hands, add some water, rub my hands together, and scrunch again. The conditioner adds softness and weight, but does make the waves relax a little. It's a balancing act.

[K_Angel]

Mousse/gel makes my scrunched waves stay all day. However, I sometimes feel my hair needs just a little bit more moisture after it's finished drying, especially in winter, so I will put a tiny glob of conditioner in my hands, add some water, rub my hands together, and scrunch again. The conditioner adds softness and weight, but does make the waves relax a little. It's a balancing act.
Ahhhhh.... I always thought mousse/gel made hair crunchy on purpose.... which is probably why I stayed away from it.

In general does mousse/gel come in types that moisturize, or?

And do you add the mousse/gel before or after you condition?

[K_Angel]

Just got my first hair toy. A friend of mine, for Christmas,
sent me a very pretty hair comb!

I took a pic and put it in my album.

My only problem is that with my fine hair, it doesn't want to stay.

Any suggestions on keeping combs in your fine hair?

[Honestwitness]

My favorite mousse/gel is Organix Coconut Milk Mousse. I use it after I (gently) towel dry my hair. So, my hair is mostly still wet, when I add the mousse. I scrunch a lot, both before and after I add the mousse. My hair is only APL, so I don't yet know how I would like using mousse/gel in hair at your length, K_angel.

The Organix Coconut Milk Mousse contains egg whites, coconut milk, coconut oil, some dimethicone, and other ingredients. I believe it holds in moisture to some extent, but is not necessarily moisturizing in itself. Of course, the coconut milk is probably moisturizing. I do know that I still feel compelled to re-wet and re-scrunch my hair, even with this mousse in it, as the day goes on, especially if it's day 1 after a wash, and in these dry winter months.

[Honestwitness]

I, too, would like to know of any ideas for keeping heavy ornaments, such as K_Angel's pretty new comb, from slipping out of fine hair.

[lapushka]

I, too, would like to know of any ideas for keeping heavy ornaments, such as K_Angel's pretty new comb, from slipping out of fine hair.

Styling products. I use them after washing to boost the waves and create some volume, but it helps with updos too. It makes my hair more manageable. It needs something in it after washing, that's for sure.

[Honestwitness]

Lapushka, you have BEEYOOTEEFULL hair! So, what kind of styling products do you use????

[K_Angel]

Lapushka, you have BEEYOOTEEFULL hair! So, what kind of styling products do you use????
She does, doesn't she!

It looks awesome in each of the pics in her siggy!

[K_Angel]

Tomorrow I'll be trying my latest test....
Sally's generic of The Detangler by
Paul Mitchell.

I hope it goes well!!!!! :)

[K_Angel]

What size Ficcare (sp?) fits our 2a/F hair?

[Velvettt]

I stopped using any kind of gel or mousse because they're pretty heavily loaded with alcohol. I don't need something else to dry out my ends!

I gave my one and only Ficcare away after a year of trying to use it. It was too heavy and always pulled on my hair no matter how many times I repositioned it. It also yanked hairs out that got caught in the hinge.

I do wear Flexi 8s although they frequently break or yank hairs out, too. It's very hard to find hair toys that aren't too heavy for fine hair, unless you've got a lot of hair. Some fines are really thick even though they don't look it, but I'm not one of them.

I can wear hair sticks but forks work better for me. I have the best results with Monk the Monk and Etta Mae. I have a Graydog fork and two Barreies forks but they tend to slowly slide out because of their weight. It's a pity because they're all gorgeous wood.

The only styling aid I ever use is aloe vera gel. It seems to absorb slowly into my hair over a few hours so I don't have to wash it out. I don't use it often.

[K_Angel]

I stopped using any kind of gel or mousse because they're pretty heavily loaded with alcohol. I don't need something else to dry out my ends!

I gave my one and only Ficcare away after a year of trying to use it. It was too heavy and always pulled on my hair no matter how many times I repositioned it. It also yanked hairs out that got caught in the hinge.

I do wear Flexi 8s although they frequently break or yank hairs out, too. It's very hard to find hair toys that aren't too heavy for fine hair, unless you've got a lot of hair. Some fines are really thick even though they don't look it, but I'm not one of them.

I can wear hair sticks but forks work better for me. I have the best results with Monk the Monk and Etta Mae. I have a Graydog fork and two Barreies forks but they tend to slowly slide out because of their weight. It's a pity because they're all gorgeous wood.

The only styling aid I ever use is aloe vera gel. It seems to absorb slowly into my hair over a few hours so I don't have to wash it out. I don't use it often.
I've had heavy barrettes in my hair that wouldn't stay put.
And I've tried using a cheap thing that had a stick you put through it.
Unfortunately, it was constantly dropping out of my hair (and I never even
felt it leave). And finally that day, it dropped out where I never saw it
again.

Needless to say, that's why my very first legitimate hair toy was from a friend.
Because the things I've bought in the past can't be considered toys,
since I immediately lost them! :(

My hair is fine, but I have a considerable amount of it. Not to the point of a iii, but there's a goodly amount there. So with hair toys is there some sort of trick to it that I'm missing?

[K_Angel]

Well, I'm contemplating making my own conditioner........

I'm mean it would be just sooooooooooooooooo nice to have only what I wanted in a conditioner and not what I didn't want. :cloud9:

Will it work????? I don't know..... but I'm currently seriously thinking about taking the plunge!

I tried Sally's version of The Detangler. And while it had the best results so far... it still had it's share of problems. Most notably, I still had quite a few tangles. My hair was VERY shiny though! Left some waves, but not a lot. I have noticed a lot more shedding though... and I'm wondering if it's that... :shrug:

I think I'll do some more thinking about making my own... I mean, I buy one commercial product and it's perfect ingredients except for one that makes my hair flat, etc...

I found one place that sold a "base" dried conditioner that basically you add water to, and you can add other ingredients for your own specifications. Plus, you can make it smell any way you want it to. I thought that was kind of cool, since I really like coconut smelling hair products. :)

I'll keep you all posted on what I find out. :blossom:

[Velvettt]

I bought some CHI Silk Infusions last week, on Spidermom's recommendation. I've used it once so far, just on the bottom 2 inches of hair. Amazing! My ends felt slick as glass. I'm putting it into my rotation. I know from using it on the bottom that I don't want to use it all over, though. Too heavy.

[detritus]

An update on the Alaffia and Whole Foods 365:

I was going to finish up the entire bottle of Alaffia shampoo before buying something new, but it started making my hair feel really roughed up and tangly in the shower. Just as bad as the Aubrey Organics.

I've used the 365 shampoo a few times and really like it. It doesn't have a lot of lather, but cleans my hair nicely without it feeling stripped. No tangles, roughness, or itchy scalp. The 365 conditioner continues to work really well as a CO wash...I've tried several others and could never get CO to work long-term, so this makes me really happy. If the shampoo was harsher, I think the conditioner might be too light, but it works really well when paired as designed. Together, they make my hair really full and soft.

The Alaffia conditioner...meh. It's too heavy and makes my hair kind of stringy, even when I just use it on the ends. I know the ingredients work really well in deep treatments for me, though, so I'm just going to use it that way. And the shampoo gets demoted to a body wash...the only place that soap deserves to be, I've decided.

[K_Angel]

I bought some CHI Silk Infusions last week, on Spidermom's recommendation. I've used it once so far, just on the bottom 2 inches of hair. Amazing! My ends felt slick as glass. I'm putting it into my rotation. I know from using it on the bottom that I don't want to use it all over, though. Too heavy.
Thank you for the heads up! :)

I had been thinking about their Chi products, so it's good to know it will be too heavy on the whole hair.

Like you, I love having a product in my arsenal that is just pure "glass" on the hair for those just in case times!

I like the idea of using it on ends. :)

[K_Angel]

An update on the Alaffia and Whole Foods 365:

I was going to finish up the entire bottle of Alaffia shampoo before buying something new, but it started making my hair feel really roughed up and tangly in the shower. Just as bad as the Aubrey Organics.

I've used the 365 shampoo a few times and really like it. It doesn't have a lot of lather, but cleans my hair nicely without it feeling stripped. No tangles, roughness, or itchy scalp. The 365 conditioner continues to work really well as a CO wash...I've tried several others and could never get CO to work long-term, so this makes me really happy. If the shampoo was harsher, I think the conditioner might be too light, but it works really well when paired as designed. Together, they make my hair really full and soft.

The Alaffia conditioner...meh. It's too heavy and makes my hair kind of stringy, even when I just use it on the ends. I know the ingredients work really well in deep treatments for me, though, so I'm just going to use it that way. And the shampoo gets demoted to a body wash...the only place that soap deserves to be, I've decided.
Good to know about the Alaffia conditioner. I was just wondering how that was going for you. Thank you for the update.

The Aubrey Organics did the same thing to my hair that you're describing... so I know exactly what you mean.

I'm glad the 365 conditioner is working good for you! :)

[K_Angel]

Ok, now I must tell you of a weird hair disaster... Ok, maybe I don't HAVE to tell you... but no one else will know what I mean!!!!! :rollin:

Actually, it's more like a Sesame Street song... "What do you think is going to happen next...."

If one puts tooooooooooooooooooooo much glycerin in their 2a/F hair... do you know what happens??????? You get 2c hair in a massive knotted dry mess, the likes you've never seen before.

Do you know what the only solution to the problem is?????? Stick your hair in a baggie with excessive water in it, while the glycerin soaks that up for an hour. When the bag dries, feed the glycerin monster again and again and again....... allllllllllllllllllll night long!!!!!!!!! :rollin:

Shesh!!!!!!

So let's all review:

A little gylcerin = good

A lot of glycerin = evil water monster on hair! :laugh:

[Elenna]

One day, you can laugh about the too much glycerin episode!

My problem is my dyed ends that are dry and brittle. I'm trying to figure out what to do about the ends. Would a deep heat treatment make the hair ends better? Or maybe a cone leave-in, but which one? I apply coconut oil everyday.

The rest of my undyed hair is soft and silky. I have metallic-colored grey hair in front that feels like bunny hair.

[K_Angel]

One day, you can laugh about the too much glycerin episode!

My problem is my dyed ends that are dry and brittle. I'm trying to figure out what to do about the ends. Would a deep heat treatment make the hair ends better? Or maybe a cone leave-in, but which one? I apply coconut oil everyday.

The rest of my undyed hair is soft and silky. I have metallic-colored grey hair in front that feels like bunny hair.
Velvettt just used Chi (see a couple of posts back) with great success on her ends and she said that it made them feel great!

Unfortunately, there's nothing you can do to actually fix your ends. But you can use products that will make them look and feel a lot better.

Since Velvett, well and everyone on this particular thread, have the same hair type as yours, you might want to try the product she used, first. And ONLY use it on the ends.

If your ends like the coconut oil I would keep that up. :)

Keep us posted. :)

We're all here to support each other! :blossom:

[pepperedmoth]

Yay for this thread!

My hair is a trial, but lately I've been using Giovanni 50:50 hydrating-clarifying shampoo and conditioner, a small dab of shampoo on the scalp, and a good handful of conditioner on the length. When it's partly air-dry, I rub ONE squirt of sweet almond oil between my palms and then through my ends, then damp-bun the whole lot. I do this about once a week, and my hair seems happy. Giovanni is cone and sulfate free.

I've thought about trying HE either long term relationship or featherweight hydralicious . . . but while my hair LOVES cones for the first few washes, after a month or so it weighs it all down and my hair clings to my scalp like the fur of a wet rat. Ugh.

[K_Angel]

Yay for this thread!

My hair is a trial, but lately I've been using Giovanni 50:50 hydrating-clarifying shampoo and conditioner, a small dab of shampoo on the scalp, and a good handful of conditioner on the length. When it's partly air-dry, I rub ONE squirt of sweet almond oil between my palms and then through my ends, then damp-bun the whole lot. I do this about once a week, and my hair seems happy. Giovanni is cone and sulfate free.

I've thought about trying HE either long term relationship or featherweight hydralicious . . . but while my hair LOVES cones for the first few washes, after a month or so it weighs it all down and my hair clings to my scalp like the fur of a wet rat. Ugh.
Welcome! :)

I like the Giovanni too. It's what I use. And everything else is an experiment from there. Although, I haven't tried the 50/50. I've been using the Smooth as Silk extreme moisture.

You made me laugh with your description of the fur of a wet rat comment! That's exactly how my hair looks like when I get a product that has olive oil in it! :rollin:

Just out of curiosity, since your hair does like cones, have you ever thought about doing an every-other-time routine? One time with cones, next time without?

[Elenna]

Well K_Ange, between bunnies and other furry creatures. We'll find some solutions for our hair.

Being so fine-haired that our hair tends to be harder to keep healthy and moisturized. Too much of anything (which is easy to do) weighs our hair down. It's a process of discovery. I think that the key is moisture, not necessary oils, but someway to keep the hair moisturized.

Silicons work for some people and not for others. So it is off to find the right product and experiment with it.

[K_Angel]

Elenna: Yeah, I gave up the oils long ago! The wet furry animal look was not a good one for me! :rollin:

I seem to have narrowed it down to, I can get moisture into my hair, but I can't keep it there. :shrug:

My hair has always liked cones, so lately I had been experimenting with them, as a theory of keeping in the moisture. But with fine hair, it's such a hard balance, not to overload it with product verses moisture with protection.

Keep us posted on your experiments! :blossom:

[Elenna]

What I meant was that coconut oil has been a lifesaver for my hair. And it washes out so easy with shampoo or conditioner. Which is a really important point for fine hair that gets so easily oily.

But I'm going to try a olive oil soak one day when I'm brave enough.

Except for my dyed & fried parched ends the rest of hair is doing pretty good.

[K_Angel]

What I meant was that coconut oil has been a lifesaver for my hair. And it washes out so easy with shampoo or conditioner. Which is a really important point for fine hair that gets so easily oily.

But I'm going to try a olive oil soak one day when I'm brave enough.

Except for my dyed & fried parched ends the rest of hair is doing pretty good.
Oh sorry, I misunderstood....

I'm so glad the coconut works for you so well!

Strangely, for me, my hair feels rough when I use it. And if I accidentally get some on my scalp it makes it unbearably itchy/sore/sort of burning feeling. :shrug:

[pepperedmoth]

Just out of curiosity, since your hair does like cones, have you ever thought about doing an every-other-time routine? One time with cones, next time without?

I hadn't thought about it until this moment. ;-) It sounds like it'd work well for my hair, but not for my personality- a bit too fussy. If I happen to have some coneful shampoo lying around, however, I will use a bit for a special occasion!

[K_Angel]

I hadn't thought about it until this moment. ;-) It sounds like it'd work well for my hair, but not for my personality- a bit too fussy. If I happen to have some coneful shampoo lying around, however, I will use a bit for a special occasion!
I can understand that. I like low maintenance hair. Well, as low as I can get it and still have it look nice. :)

[rags]

Can a 1c/2a (typed as a 1c only because I always comb it wet?) come play on your thread? I've most certainly got the fine part down! Baby fine spiderwebs for hair!

My hair likes both cones (for a short time only - then it hates them) and no cones. I'll do cones for a special occasion, usually if I want to wear my hair down. The rest of the time, I stick with no-cone.

My biggest problem is finding a no-cone conditioner that moisturizes enough without weighing my hair down too much. AO Honeysuckle Rose is wonderful, but my hair sleeks down to my head like a drowned rat after just about a day. Sigh. Any recommendations?

ETA: I laughed myself silly at the glycerin water monster. :rollin:

[K_Angel]

Can a 1c/2a (typed as a 1c only because I always comb it wet?) come play on your thread? I've most certainly got the fine part down! Baby fine spiderwebs for hair!

My hair likes both cones (for a short time only - then it hates them) and no cones. I'll do cones for a special occasion, usually if I want to wear my hair down. The rest of the time, I stick with no-cone.

My biggest problem is finding a no-cone conditioner that moisturizes enough without weighing my hair down too much. AO Honeysuckle Rose is wonderful, but my hair sleeks down to my head like a drowned rat after just about a day. Sigh. Any recommendations?

ETA: I laughed myself silly at the glycerin water monster. :rollin:
Of course you can Rags! And welcome! :grin:

As for the moisturizing no cone recommendation... the one I currently use is Giovanni Smoother than silk conditioner. It's no cones and it works well. It's not my "perfect" conditioner, but it's been good to my hair. And every time I stray for a new product to test, I run back to it because it's safe and good. :)

HTH! :blossom:

[nikki_h_007]

hi im new, i have loads of problems with my hair-
the ends dry out so quick! and the roots get greasy soooo quick. now ive started a CWC routine-
1. conditioning my whole head with a gentle conditioner,
2. then a clarifying shampoo just on my scalp, down to the top of my ears- not the lengths.
3. then once a week i also deep condition after this with a conditioner full of cones :)
4. then follow with a leave in moisture injection conditioner.

i dont blow dry or straighten my hair anymore (its hard) thing is, i think the deep conditioner is actually making my ends MORE fragile- or it might just be time to do a mini split end trim

problem is i find my self washing my hair too much- which i feel is bad for it if i do 2 days in a row (which happens quite frequently) but frankly otherwise my hair is so limp at the top, especially with no blow drying that it looks gross if its not totally clean!

troubled days...

[nikki_h_007]

oh, and when i deep condition and use the leave in conditioner, i only use them on the lengths of my hair, other wise its a disaster!

[pepperedmoth]

hi im new, i have loads of problems with my hair-
the ends dry out so quick! and the roots get greasy soooo quick. now ive started a CWC routine-
1. conditioning my whole head with a gentle conditioner,
2. then a clarifying shampoo just on my scalp, down to the top of my ears- not the lengths.
3. then once a week i also deep condition after this with a conditioner full of cones :)
4. then follow with a leave in moisture injection conditioner.

i dont blow dry or straighten my hair anymore (its hard) thing is, i think the deep conditioner is actually making my ends MORE fragile- or it might just be time to do a mini split end trim

problem is i find my self washing my hair too much- which i feel is bad for it if i do 2 days in a row (which happens quite frequently) but frankly otherwise my hair is so limp at the top, especially with no blow drying that it looks gross if its not totally clean!

troubled days...

Hi Nikki, and welcome!

Try NOT conditioning your whole head when you CWC. For me, conditioner anywhere near the top of my head gives me that limp flat look. The same is true of cones, for me. My length likes them, but if I use them anywhere near the top of my head- GREASY DROWNED RAT.

Maybe if you sort out the grease problem you'll be able to go longer between washings.

If your ends are damaged, they're damaged, and no amount of conditioning will get them back. Tragic, but true. Not saying yours ARE damaged. Try a tiny tiny trim and if that makes them feel better, you have your answer. Sometimes if I'm questioning whether I need a trim, I whack the end off one lonely lock and see how it feels after.

If that's not it, try oil. I have this wacky theory that I made up five seconds ago that if your scalp is producing that much oil, your lengths may very well need it. Naturally, unless you're going totally water free, you can't get your natural oils down that far . . . so some replacement may be in order.

Good luck!

[jivete]

I don't think I posted this on here, but the bump in the Argan oil thread made me think of it.

I've tried most of the oils and the two that work best in my hair are Argan (by far my favorite) and Camellia. For overnight soaks, I do like Coconut oil quite a bit, though lately with my new vitashower filter, it leaves me too greasy. I've used Olive, jojoba, castor, emu and some other blends too.

[Honestwitness]

Jivete, hi neighbor! Where does one purchase Argan and Camellia oils around here?

[nikki_h_007]

thank you pepperedmoth! ill give it a go, i was conditioning all over before hand because i thought the cleansing shampoo might be a bit too harsh, but i think your right, considering it gets lots of oils quickly and naturally there might be no point!
i have to trim a lot anyway, and im due for a half inch cut at the beggining of feb. im trying to slowly get rid of all the blonde bits which i think are the reason why it is damaged
(sun-in= NOT good.)
Thanx again

[nikki_h_007]

i think the oils sound good too- where can i find them? (why do i always forget something?)

[K_Angel]

I don't think I posted this on here, but the bump in the Argan oil thread made me think of it.

I've tried most of the oils and the two that work best in my hair are Argan (by far my favorite) and Camellia. For overnight soaks, I do like Coconut oil quite a bit, though lately with my new vitashower filter, it leaves me too greasy. I've used Olive, jojoba, castor, emu and some other blends too.
I use Camellia oil, as it's about the only one light enough to put two drops in my hair while wet and not come out a greased piggy! :grin:

Jivete, is Argan light oil too? Is it less expensive than the camellia Japonica oil?

[K_Angel]

i think the oils sound good too- where can i find them? (why do i always forget something?)
:waving: Hi Nikki!

If you haven't already tried a bunch of oils you could start with the less expensive ones. In fact, many people can use Extra virgin Olive Oil on their hair. It's too heavy for my hair, but since everyone is different start with the ones in the kitchen cupboard. At least that's how I always look at it! :)

If those don't work there are others that can be found at the local health food stores. Most common is jojoba oil. It is the oil that is most similar to the natural oil your hair produces.

HTH! :)

Let us know if you need more suggestions! :blossom:

ETA: Another very popular oil is Coconut Oil, it's fairly inexpensive and can be found at your local grocery store. :)

[jivete]

I use Camellia oil, as it's about the only one light enough to put two drops in my hair while wet and not come out a greased piggy! :grin:

Jivete, is Argan light oil too? Is it less expensive than the camellia Japonica oil?

It's priced similarly to the camellia, maybe a little more. It's about the same lightness. I like it better though and it supports women in Morocco.

[jivete]

Jivete, hi neighbor! Where does one purchase Argan and Camellia oils around here?

I buy them online. You can get Argan oil at Sephora (Josie Maran bottles it), but it's pretty spendy. I think the 4oz bottle is about $50. They do have sample sizes. I originally ordered the Josie Maran samples off ebay to try out, but Sephora should carry them too.

[K_Angel]

I buy them online. You can get Argan oil at Sephora (Josie Maran bottles it), but it's pretty spendy. I think the 4oz bottle is about $50. They do have sample sizes. I originally ordered the Josie Maran samples off ebay to try out, but Sephora should carry them too.
Wow! That is a "bit dear!" I thought I'd been robbed when I paid $20 for the camellia oil! :rollin:

Ok, so my Argan oil testing will have to hold off for another time. :grin:

Thanks for the info! :blossom:

[jivete]

Wow! That is a "bit dear!" I thought I'd been robbed when I paid $20 for the camellia oil! :rollin:

Ok, so my Argan oil testing will have to hold off for another time. :grin:

Thanks for the info! :blossom:

It's more expensive at Sephora. I think I got my 4 oz bottle on line for about $30. This is the Camelia I bought from amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Oshima-Tsubaki-Japanese-Camellia-Hair/dp/B0019MSDIO/ref=pd_sbs_bt_4

Here is on of Amazon's listings for Argan:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002IT21MG/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000GS8T0Y&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0QS704A880X3Q5C1ZZA1

About the same price.

[K_Angel]

It's more expensive at Sephora. I think I got my 4 oz bottle on line for about $30. This is the Camelia I bought from amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Oshima-Tsubaki-Japanese-Camellia-Hair/dp/B0019MSDIO/ref=pd_sbs_bt_4

Here is on of Amazon's listings for Argan:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002IT21MG/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000GS8T0Y&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0QS704A880X3Q5C1ZZA1

About the same price.
Yep, that's what I got too. I really like the camellia oil! And especially when every other oil just sat on my hair like an oil slick! Ick!

Looked up the Amazon.com Argan oil. Oh cool! That's a good price! :)

Ok, ok, soooooooooooooo I might get some! :rollin:

[rags]

Do you guys like the Argan and camellia oil better than coconut then? Coconut is the only one I've found that halfway works for me, and even then I have to be very careful or I end up looking greasy.

[Elenna]

I don't think I posted this on here, but the bump in the Argan oil thread made me think of it. I've tried most of the oils and the two that work best in my hair are Argan (by far my favorite) and Camellia. For overnight soaks, I do like Coconut oil quite a bit, though lately with my new vitashower filter, it leaves me too greasy. I've used Olive, jojoba, castor, emu and some other blends too.

How is argan oil different? What does it do for your hair? Where do you buy it?

I've used coconut oil, jojoba, castor, emu, etc. After all the oil experimentation, coconut oil is still my favorite oil for pre-conditioning. Camellia oil &/or almond oil are lovely oils for leave ins.

[K_Angel]

Do you guys like the Argan and camellia oil better than coconut then? Coconut is the only one I've found that halfway works for me, and even then I have to be very careful or I end up looking greasy.
Well, I haven't tried the Argan yet. But the camellia oil was the only one that worked for me. And even then, it's 2 drops only on wet hair, or I get the, now famous, "wet furry animal" look. :grin:

I don't use coconut oil because it would make my head itchy, any time it got on my scalp and felt like it was stripping my hair.

And yep, 2a/F hair does have to be VERY careful with products, especially oils. Everything seems to want to weigh it down or make it look like a grease ball...

But if coconut oil is working for you, why change to something more expensive? :)

HTH! :blossom:

[K_Angel]

Post #168 on this thread (a couple messages back) there are given links to where you can buy it.
I don't know how to do "links" sorry.

Anyway, Jivete was the one that has used the Argan oil. It sounds like it's quite a bit like the Camellia Japonica oil. :shrug:

Unfortunately, that's all I know.... but I"m sure she'll be on here again and will share. :)


ETA: There's a whole thread on Argan oil. If you do a search and type in Argan, it's about 4 down. Again, sorry, I don't know how to do links. But I sure need to learn! :)

[jivete]

How is argan oil different? What does it do for your hair? Where do you buy it?

I've used coconut oil, jojoba, castor, emu, etc. After all the oil experimentation, coconut oil is still my favorite oil for pre-conditioning. Camellia oil &/or almond oil are lovely oils for leave ins.

The Argan is very light and easy to use on dry hair without making it too greasy. Camellia is similar, but I find the Argan seems to absorb more where the camellia seemed to sit on top of the hair. I do like coconut, but find it hard to put on sparingly enough.

I buy my oil on line. It originally comes from Morocco. I haven't tried almond oil yet, but I might.

[K_Angel]

Jivete: Interesting.... there's no oil I've been able to use on my dry hair without turning into a grease ball. The only time I can use it on dry hair is for a DT.

Interesting that you can use it on dry hair.... hmmmmm.... :)

[jivete]

Jivete: Interesting.... there's no oil I've been able to use on my dry hair without turning into a grease ball. The only time I can use it on dry hair is for a DT.

Interesting that you can use it on dry hair.... hmmmmm.... :)

That's funny because I have a hard time using oil on wet hair. Makes me a stringy mess.

[rags]

Well, I haven't tried the Argan yet. But the camellia oil was the only one that worked for me. And even then, it's 2 drops only on wet hair, or I get the, now famous, "wet furry animal" look. :grin:

I don't use coconut oil because it would make my head itchy, any time it got on my scalp and felt like it was stripping my hair.

And yep, 2a/F hair does have to be VERY careful with products, especially oils. Everything seems to want to weigh it down or make it look like a grease ball...

But if coconut oil is working for you, why change to something more expensive? :)

HTH! :blossom:

Ah, because it only semi-works. It's kind of heavy and about half the time I get the dreaded "drowned rat" look. Methinks a lighter oil would be better! :p (Jojoba does nothing for me except make me look like already referenced wet rodent. :p)

[K_Angel]

Ah, because it only semi-works. It's kind of heavy and about half the time I get the dreaded "drowned rat" look. Methinks a lighter oil would be better! :p (Jojoba does nothing for me except make me look like already referenced wet rodent. :p)
Ahhhhhh yes! The dreaded wet rodent look... :scared: :laugh:

Yeah, jojoba makes me look like a drowned warf rat too! Ick! However, I have found that using it to oil my hair on purpose and then using VO5 Free Me Fressia with a heat cap, makes for an excellent DT. :)

Ok, well, I like camellia oil for my hair when wet, I can use two drops in my hair with no problem. So, it's my personal favorite.

Jivete says that Argan oil is like that in lightness.

Olive oil, coconut oil, sunflower oil, sweet almond oil, and jojoba were all tooooooo heavy for my hair. And the only one of that list that even "soaked in" was the jojoba...

I think you might want to try the camellia oil, it's light, it soaks in nicely, and is harder to overdo than the others mentioned. :)

HTH! :blossom:

[K_Angel]

Happy New Year, everyone!!!! :grouphug:

[K_Angel]

I'm currently working on making my own conditioner using a
concentrated base and adding to it.

Will share more when I see if it works or not. :laugh:

[K_Angel]

What type of bobby pins work for your 2a/F hair?????

I've been contemplating some of those good days kinds that are more open.... because the regular bobby pins seem to be "breaking" hairs.

Anyone have any bobby pins secrets they'd like to share????

[K_Angel]

I'm thinking that someone should just take the glycerin away from me!!!!!!! LOL We need to start a "Just say no to too much glycerin!" thread.
Our signs can read, "Just put the glycerin bottle down and nobody gets hurt!" :rollin:

Ok, well, my first make-your-own-conditioner, if you haven't already guessed, .............had TOOOOOOOOOO much glycerin in it!!!!! LOL


:shrug: Oh well, I'll try again! :) And let you know if I come up with a good "formula."

[jivete]

Too much glycerin makes my hair tacky and gross. I have to use it very sparingly.

[rags]

What type of bobby pins work for your 2a/F hair?????

I've been contemplating some of those good days kinds that are more open.... because the regular bobby pins seem to be "breaking" hairs.

Anyone have any bobby pins secrets they'd like to share????

I can't use regular bobby pins very well. They do tend to break hairs for me. I use Amish pins for buns and such.

[K_Angel]

Too much glycerin makes my hair tacky and gross. I have to use it very sparingly.
Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, that's the lesson I SHOULD have learned last time! :rollin: I did use a lot less, but didn't realize I had to use even LESS! :doh:

[K_Angel]

I can't use regular bobby pins very well. They do tend to break hairs for me. I use Amish pins for buns and such.
Well, you have the same kind of hair I do, so that's good.... if Amish pins work for you, they should work for me????? Amish pins? How do they stay in fine hair? They are so wide.... And where do I buy them?

I'm just so upset, because I finally found a new updo (log roll- thank you, Lady Godiva!!!) that works perfectly for me in every way except all the bobby pins are breaking hairs regularly and I've had to S&D my hair till it seems like it's layered!

I had noticed wider bobby pins before, but thought they'd never stay in my fine hair... so I'm excited that you're able to use something else. Please tell me more! :grin:

[rags]

Well the bun pins (what I think you mean by wider bobby pins?) don't work for me either. But the Amish pins hold like a rock! Here's where I get mine: http://www.prayercoverings.com/catalog.php?category=5. There are some other places on the net to order them also, but I can't think of them offhand. Generally the plain dressing religious sites will carry them.

They actually stay in just like a teeny tiny hairfork. You put them in the same way. I can hold a cinnabun with a few of these through gale force winds I tell you! (and I have Houdini hair - it escapes everything!)

Oh, the Good Day pins do work for me also; it's just that my hair is so thin they show! (They don't hold for me as well as the Amish ones though)

[jivete]

Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, that's the lesson I SHOULD have learned last time! :rollin: I did use a lot less, but didn't realize I had to use even LESS! :doh:

I generally have to use half of whatever they call for in recipes, like the de-frizz spray. I'd sometimes forget and be unable to comb my hair until it was washed. Anymore, I tend to stay away from glycerin entirely.

[K_Angel]

Well the bun pins (what I think you mean by wider bobby pins?) don't work for me either. But the Amish pins hold like a rock! Here's where I get mine: http://www.prayercoverings.com/catalog.php?category=5. There are some other places on the net to order them also, but I can't think of them offhand. Generally the plain dressing religious sites will carry them.

They actually stay in just like a teeny tiny hairfork. You put them in the same way. I can hold a cinnabun with a few of these through gale force winds I tell you! (and I have Houdini hair - it escapes everything!)

Oh, the Good Day pins do work for me also; it's just that my hair is so thin they show! (They don't hold for me as well as the Amish ones though)
Is this the specific pins called Amish pins? They had several on the page. Since you have success and they don't show through your hair, I want to be sure to buy the same ones. However, I have medium brown hair. Will these show through? How long do I want them?

http://www.prayercoverings.com/catalog.php?item=38&catid=5&ret=catalog.php&#37;3Fcategory%3D5

I've never had a hair fork. Is there a special way you put them in?

They look sharp... are they?

Sorry for all the questions... :o

TIA! :)

[K_Angel]

I generally have to use half of whatever they call for in recipes, like the de-frizz spray. I'd sometimes forget and be unable to comb my hair until it was washed. Anymore, I tend to stay away from glycerin entirely.
Oh my goodness... yeah, I'm dropping it down from so much, to a drop! It can make my hair soft, if I do it right, but I have yet to find the right amount.

I'll try a drop and then experiment from there. :)

[blueroses79]

I *think* glycerin is the ingredient in Deva products my hair doesn't like. At least, this is my guess since it's in the first few ingredients in the gel and the shine serum and they both made my hair feel yucky.

[K_Angel]

I *think* glycerin is the ingredient in Deva products my hair doesn't like. At least, this is my guess since it's in the first few ingredients in the gel and the shine serum and they both made my hair feel yucky.
hmmmmmmmmmmmm, maybe I need to just decide that it's not making my hair happy and stop trying to make it work???????

[rags]

Is this the specific pins called Amish pins? They had several on the page. Since you have success and they don't show through your hair, I want to be sure to buy the same ones. However, I have medium brown hair. Will these show through? How long do I want them?

http://www.prayercoverings.com/catalog.php?item=38&catid=5&ret=catalog.php%3Fcategory%3D5

I've never had a hair fork. Is there a special way you put them in?

They look sharp... are they?

Sorry for all the questions... :o

TIA! :)

Yes, those are the ones. They don't show in my hair at all, but my hair is lighter. But the way I put them in, you just don't see them. So they're fine that way.

You put them in like a hairstick - facing away from the direction, gathering scalp hair, then flipping them to the way you want them and pushing them in.

As for how long......I have VERY thin hair, so I'm not the best to ask. I think most people with waist go with the 2.5 or 3 inch ones. I use mostly the 2 inch, sometimes the 2.5, but I'm APL and thin. I'd think it would depend on what style you were doing too.

Yes, my only complaint about them is that they can be just a tad sharp. If I get one that's too sharp, I just file the end. They've never cut me or anything though.

I hope they work for you if you decide to get some. If not, they're always snapped right up on the swap board! It's funny, the bun pins usually work for those the Amish pins don't.......

[K_Angel]

Yes, those are the ones. They don't show in my hair at all, but my hair is lighter. But the way I put them in, you just don't see them. So they're fine that way.

You put them in like a hairstick - facing away from the direction, gathering scalp hair, then flipping them to the way you want them and pushing them in.

As for how long......I have VERY thin hair, so I'm not the best to ask. I think most people with waist go with the 2.5 or 3 inch ones. I use mostly the 2 inch, sometimes the 2.5, but I'm APL and thin. I'd think it would depend on what style you were doing too.

Yes, my only complaint about them is that they can be just a tad sharp. If I get one that's too sharp, I just file the end. They've never cut me or anything though.

I hope they work for you if you decide to get some. If not, they're always snapped right up on the swap board! It's funny, the bun pins usually work for those the Amish pins don't.......
Yep, I"m seriously going to try these. Because of all the breakage I've had with the regular bobby pins... I need to do something. I think I'll go to my local Kmart and see if they have the ones everybody was talk about being almost the same. Then if I can get those to work, I'll order some real Amish pins! :)

Thanks for all the help and advice! :blossom:

[rags]

If you have a Sally's they carry the ones almost like these (the ballet or bun pins).

[K_Angel]

If you have a Sally's they carry the ones almost like these (the ballet or bun pins).
Interesting, the last few times I was in Sally's they didn't have anything but the regular bobby pins. Ours is a very small store and doesn't carry as many things as I see others talk about though.

I'll have to check again. :)

Thanks for the heads up on that! :)

[K_Angel]

I'm hoping to get out today and try some of those Amish pins today! I hope our local Sally's or Kmart will have them!

So, everyone.... what's new with your hair? What are you working on right now?

What are you pleased with your current routine?

What thing are you still looking for a better answer?

[jivete]

So, everyone.... what's new with your hair? What are you working on right now?

What are you pleased with your current routine?

What thing are you still looking for a better answer?

I'm currently trimming monthly to try and thicken up my hem. It seems like I've been getting more breakage at this length. I'm trying not to be discouraged about my thin ends and give the trimming routine time to work (I had one trim in Oct and one in Jan, hardly enough to see results).

I do with the henna/katam I do on the length to reduce brassiness would last. I did one on 12/5 and had to do it again on 1/9. My length is very porous and color just falls out of it.

[K_Angel]

jivete: When you say your lose all the color, do you mean that the brown leaves but the red stays or do you mean that it goes back to your natural color underneath the henna/katam?

[jivete]

jivete: When you say your lose all the color, do you mean that the brown leaves but the red stays or do you mean that it goes back to your natural color underneath the henna/katam?

It returns to this brassy color that I believe is left over from peroxide. I think even the henna falls out of my hair.

[K_Angel]

If you have a Sally's they carry the ones almost like these (the ballet or bun pins).
The good news... I found the pins!!!! The bad news... I'm Amish pin challenged! :rollin:

My favorite updo (well, the only one I know how to do, but also I like it a lot) is the log roll. And I can't figure out how to put these pins in. I've never worn a hair fork or anything else, so I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong? I can make it hold if the prongs stick out the other side, but that doesn't look very good.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! :)

Jivete: Wow! You're the first person ever to successfully end up with the henna not being permanent! Do you have high porosity hair naturally?

[Eden Iris]

Amish pin instructions: Place the pin flat side next to your scalp with the ends pointing the opposite way from where you want them to be when you're done (if you want the ends to be at 8 o'clock, then aim them toward 2 o'clock). Grab some hair in the pin, then flip it around and poke it in, pinching the ends together as you slide it in. When you let go, the ends will open again and keep the pin from sliding out, sort of like an arrowhead.

Now that my hair is shorter, I don't use them so much, but they worked great for me for securing a bun. I'd use two Amish pins in opposing directions and two pretty pins for decoration. I also found them helpful when I first started using hairsticks with APL, layered hair -- one stick and one pin for extra hold.

As for my routine, I wash once a week with shampoo bars (Camamu is my favorite so far), condition the ends with Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle Rose while I wash the rest of my body, then rinse all the hair with a white vinegar rinse including a few drops of rosemary EO and assorted perfume oils. I do not rinse out the rinse, and I do not smell like a pickle jar (I asked my husband -- he swears).

When my hair is half dry, I finger comb it with a bit of aloe gel and Giovanni Smooth As Silk mixed in my palm. I do this a few other times between wash days; it helps with frizz.

I henna every three months, alternating between full strength and gloss. I prefer to gloss with yogurt, as a conditioner gloss turns my hair into straw until I wash it again. I rinse out the full-strength henna with a SMT.

No deep conditioning other than the henna routine; my hair doesn't seem to like it. Olive or coconut oil on the ends only when the weather is very dry.

So glad I (finally) found this thread.

[K_Angel]

Amish pin instructions: Place the pin flat side next to your scalp with the ends pointing the opposite way from where you want them to be when you're done (if you want the ends to be at 8 o'clock, then aim them toward 2 o'clock. Grab some hair in the pin, then flip it around and poke it in, pinching the ends together as you slide it in. When you let go, the ends will open again and keep the pin from sliding out, sort of like an arrowhead.

Now that my hair is shorter, I don't use them so much, but they worked great for me for securing a bun. I'd use two Amish pins in opposing directions and two pretty pins for decoration. I also found them helpful when I first started using hairsticks with APL, layered hair -- one stick and one pin for extra hold.

As for my routine, I wash once a week with shampoo bars (Camamu is my favorite so far), condition the ends with Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle Rose while I wash the rest of my body, then rinse all the hair with a white vinegar rinse including a few drops of rosemary EO and assorted perfume oils. I do not rinse out the rinse, and I do not smell like a pickle jar (I asked my husband -- he swears).

When my hair is half dry, I finger comb it with a bit of aloe gel and Giovanni Smooth As Silk mixed in my palm. I do this a few other times between wash days; it helps with frizz.

I henna every three months, alternating between full strength and gloss. I prefer to gloss with yogurt, as a conditioner gloss turns my hair into straw until I wash it again. I rinse out the full-strength henna with a SMT.

No deep conditioning other than the henna routine; my hair doesn't seem to like it. Olive or coconut oil on the ends only when the weather is very dry.

So glad I (finally) found this thread.
Very cool instructions on the Amish pins.... no wonder it wasn't working! I was doing it completely wrong!

So glad you found us! :blossom:

[jivete]

Jivete: Wow! You're the first person ever to successfully end up with the henna not being permanent! Do you have high porosity hair naturally?

To tell you the truth, I don't know. I've always had porous hair, but I've always had damaged hair too. I cannot remember a time where my hair was not damaged from perms, sun, dye or heat. There is a reason this is the longest my hair has ever been.

[K_Angel]

To tell you the truth, I don't know. I've always had porous hair, but I've always had damaged hair too. I cannot remember a time where my hair was not damaged from perms, sun, dye or heat. There is a reason this is the longest my hair has ever been.
You must be doing something right! :) I just looked at your "Hair Journal" and your hair looks good! :flower:

I have just the opposite problem; low porosity. I didn't even realize it until Detritus mentioned an article she had read. Nothing wants to go into my hair. So now, I've been using warm water and not rinsing with cold. It seems to be helping with the amount of moisture I can retain in my hair. :shrug:

[Honestwitness]

I've been so enjoying my hair lately. After 30 years of short hair, this long hair experience is such a nice change and LHC is such a huge part of my life now. Who would have thought a middle-aged woman with gray hair could become so fascinated with long hair! Or maybe the correct word is obsessed.

I am still discovering how my hair reacts to various combinations of factors. This week, I have used shampoo and conditioner every other day and I really like the results. After I towel dry, I rub some coconut oil between my palms and scrunch it into my length. Then, I scrunch in some aloe vera gel. Then, I diffuser dry, alternating between low heat and no heat.

I don't detangle until after my hair is completey dry and I do so with a wide-tooth plastic comb. My hair feels so fluffy. I wear it down all day and it feels like a soft mohair veil floating around my face and shoulders. I can't bear to put it up, except while washing my face or brushing my teeth. I like my ears to be COVERED! It feels so cozy, warm, and safe.

I know I look a little weird, as a 60-year-old woman to be wearing long, curly locks, especially at work. But I enjoy how it feels so much that I don't care if I don't look all that professional.

I'm not sure what I'll do as it gets longer, as I know I will need to wear it up to protect it and to protect me from getting it caught in hazardous things like fans and vacuum cleaner motors.

I am still researching updos that keep the ears covered and I'm looking for the perfect calorimetry crochet pattern. I'm crocheting one now out of Caron Simply Soft yarn in a lovely silvery-gray color. I'll let you know how it turns out.

As far as Amish pins go...I've never owned or used them. However I will sometimes bend my bobby pins to make them curve like the curvature of my head. That way the ends don't stick out of buns and french twists so much. Maybe you could bend the Amish pins a little bit, too.

[jivete]

That's wonderful that you're enjoying your hair Honestwitness. It is looking beautiful these days.

Thanks K_Angel. The camera doesn't show it, but there's actually a line of breakage that starts at about shoulder from all the old dye/heat damage. When I first ditched all the bad stuff my hair can't handle, I was so surprised to see such a clear difference in hair. I guess I never realized how much my hair was breaking.

I would think if you had non-porous hair, it would be moisturized from the inside and not need additional mosture.

[K_Angel]

Honestwitness:

I'm so glad you're having fun with your hair!!!! I think that's
the pay off of growing long hair! :cheese:

You do not look weird having long hair no matter what age!!!! I've never understood how people can say age should affect what length of hair I have. What a strange theory. I wonder what the exact thing is... at age 5 you can have so many inches.... and it can continue to grow longer until you're 20 something at which time you have to start shortening it by so many inches? By the time you're 90 you should be bald to be socially acceptable? :rollin:

Honestwitness, I think your hair looks lovely! :) And thank you
so much for sharing your new routine success story! :)

[K_Angel]

Jivete: Interesting theory, but I think shampoo would take some of that moisture out bit by bit or humidity levels being low.... so, I think it may take longer to lose the moisture in hair, but it would take a longer time to put it in there too. :shrug: Who knows, I could be wrong. :)

[K_Angel]

:waving: Hi, everyone!

I'm a little bummed tonight because I just tried to make my third batch of homemade conditioner from a base and it dried my hair again. At this point, I have to accept the fact that the base is just too drying for my hair.... :justy:

Liquid bases are very expensive, so now I'm thinking about maybe using something like Suave or V05 as a "base" of sorts and use the additives that I've purchased to make them what I want???? :shrug:

Anyway, just wanted to keep you up to date with my progress! :blossom:

[K_Angel]

Ok, I have a new theory...... :rollin:

Since my conditioner, Giovanni More Moisture, works kinda good... what if I used it as my new base and added things to it???????

Sound feasible?

[K_Angel]

Does anyone Cassia?

[Airisuu]

After a solid month of stalking this thread, I've finally caught up and decided to join in the fun. Thank you all for the wonderful tips you've listed, and the time and effort that has gone into making this lovely thread for a somewhat troublesome hair type.

I count myself lucky as my hair has been responding fairly well to my latest routine. I CO every 3 days or so with VO5 (Tea Therapy), then ACV rinse, cool water rinse, and let air dry. I've been experimenting with using an ACV and Honey leave in rinse, and though I've only tried it a couple of times I've had nice results so far. I SMT every few weeks, but I apply it to dry hair and use 100&#37; aloe juice, not aloe gel. (Also sometimes I get crazy and add a tsp of cayenne, but that's a different story.)

Still, I sometimes have a problem with dry ends and am looking for an oil that I can leave in without looking like I bathed in Quaker State. If it's been a couple of days since I washed my hair and am planning to wear it up, I put on a bit of Ojon. I've never been able to find the perfect balance between enough to do the job and too much so my hair looks greasy. (I always hide the greasiness by tucking the ends away, but I'd love to be able to wear it down some day.) On that note, I was wondering how many 2a/F prefer grapeseed oil vs. coconut oil? I'm wondering between those two as they're the most easily available. I've heard good things about Camellia oil, but I'm looking for something a bit more domestic at the moment. Also I was wondering if any of you have an opinion regarding hemp seed oil?

Thanks again to all of you for this thread!

[UP Lisa]

I didn't know this thread was here. I guess I should join in.

I love the waves, but the fineness is HARD to deal with. Mostly for me, it's the tangles that makes it hard. On it's own, my hair would turn into dreadlocks within a week.

Lisa

[detritus]

On that note, I was wondering how many 2a/F prefer grapeseed oil vs. coconut oil? I'm wondering between those two as they're the most easily available. I've heard good things about Camellia oil, but I'm looking for something a bit more domestic at the moment. Also I was wondering if any of you have an opinion regarding hemp seed oil?

Thanks again to all of you for this thread!

My hair looks great with coconut oil and it really helps soften the ends and prevent splits. Unfortunately, coconut oil also makes my skin break out so I don't use it anymore. Grapeseed just seemed to heavy. Hemp seed oil was light, but it didn't seem to soak into the hair so it didn't do anything for my dry ends. I adore camellia oil. If you decide you want to go that route, Garden of Wisdom has great deals with reasonable shipping rates.

K_Angel: I used to cassia. It made my hair very soft and slightly thicker. After several applications, it started to affect the color of my hair though. It wasn't "green" per se but it did look kind of dead and beige, it lost the kind of luminous quality of my natural blonde. Since your hair is darker, you might really like it though.

Also, I think I found my HG leave-in product. I haven't used them in years because they always seem to pull out the waves and volume. Plus I really hate crunchy hair. On a whim when I got my hair trimmed last week I bought the product the stylist used in my hair because it just looked so great. When I got home, I noticed that it contained dimethicone and my heart sank a little. Usually cone-y products work great once for me, but after a 2-3 days they just make my hair yucky and lank. But I've been using this daily for over a week and it still looks great. It's M.O.P. Defining Cream. It was $16, which is usually more than I like to spend but I need barely any at all. Less than a pea-sized amount. It makes my waves noticeably wavier and they kind of "group" together nicely instead of devolving into a halo of flyaways. I'm so impressed I'm going to post some with and without photos if I get a chance. I think this might be the first leave-in product I've really liked.

[K_Angel]

After a solid month of stalking this thread, I've finally caught up and decided to join in the fun. Thank you all for the wonderful tips you've listed, and the time and effort that has gone into making this lovely thread for a somewhat troublesome hair type.

I count myself lucky as my hair has been responding fairly well to my latest routine. I CO every 3 days or so with VO5 (Tea Therapy), then ACV rinse, cool water rinse, and let air dry. I've been experimenting with using an ACV and Honey leave in rinse, and though I've only tried it a couple of times I've had nice results so far. I SMT every few weeks, but I apply it to dry hair and use 100% aloe juice, not aloe gel. (Also sometimes I get crazy and add a tsp of cayenne, but that's a different story.)

Still, I sometimes have a problem with dry ends and am looking for an oil that I can leave in without looking like I bathed in Quaker State. If it's been a couple of days since I washed my hair and am planning to wear it up, I put on a bit of Ojon. I've never been able to find the perfect balance between enough to do the job and too much so my hair looks greasy. (I always hide the greasiness by tucking the ends away, but I'd love to be able to wear it down some day.) On that note, I was wondering how many 2a/F prefer grapeseed oil vs. coconut oil? I'm wondering between those two as they're the most easily available. I've heard good things about Camellia oil, but I'm looking for something a bit more domestic at the moment. Also I was wondering if any of you have an opinion regarding hemp seed oil?

Thanks again to all of you for this thread!
:waving: Welcome!!!

Thank you for sharing your routine with us! I was wondering, you mentioned that you use aloe vera juice? What differences did you notice between that and the gel?

I've heard on another thread, don't know where now... sorry! That hemp oil is not as "moisturizing" as it gets the reputation for. :shrug: Never used it myself, so couldn't comment on that, but since you're still searching thought I'd throw that info in. :)

For me, both grape and coconut oil were too heavy for my hair and I turned into the famous "drowned rodent" look! :rollin: However, I don't have dried ends, so you never know????

[K_Angel]

UP Lisa: :waving: Welcome!

I have horrible tangles! I hate that! Lately, I had to cut some of my hair out because of the stupid tangles. Now my hair has some "layers" in it. Do you get tangles at certain points or just all around?

Have you ever tried "Cowboy Magic?" It works wonderfully on getting the tangles out when you've got a mess and you really can only work through piece by piece. It's saved my hair a few times!

Right now I'm using Nature's Gate Herbal Daily Shampoo and I have to tell you, it took most of my tangles out of my hair all by itself. I have NO idea why. But it works. I haven't really come up with a satisfactory conditioner yet... so I still get those little tangles all over my head, but dang, compared to a dreadlock every time I wash my hair, it's a dream! :laugh:

HTH! :)

[K_Angel]

K_Angel: I used to cassia. It made my hair very soft and slightly thicker. After several applications, it started to affect the color of my hair though. It wasn't "green" per se but it did look kind of dead and beige, it lost the kind of luminous quality of my natural blonde. Since your hair is darker, you might really like it though.

Also, I think I found my HG leave-in product. I've been using this daily for over a week and it still looks great. It's M.O.P. Defining Cream. It was $16, which is usually more than I like to spend but I need barely any at all. Less than a pea-sized amount. It makes my waves noticeably wavier and they kind of "group" together nicely instead of devolving into a halo of flyaways. I'm so impressed I'm going to post some with and without photos if I get a chance. I think this might be the first leave-in product I've really liked.

I was kind of thinking of putting a little Amla with my Cassia??? I should probably just try it straight the first time and then go from there to experimenting. :laugh: I like the idea of softer and thicker! I realize that's what I've been trying to get out of my conditioners and they just can't deliver. So, I think I'll try it this weekend if I have time.

Toooooooo cool about the M.O.P. Defining Cream. I hope it continues to work! It sounds wonderful!

Thanks, Detritus! :)

[Airisuu]

Detritus: Thanks very much for this info! :) Taking all of that into consideration, I'll definitely give coconut oil a shot. Not many products make me break out so I'll take a risk and see how my hair reacts to it. If I don't have much luck with coconut I'll probably wind up resorting to camellia. If I do, I'll definitely check out Garden of Wisdom! It's also great to hear about your success with M.O.P. Defining Cream, I'm glad you found a product that works so well for you!

K_Angel: Regarding the heaviness of the oils and the 'drowned rodent' look, that's my biggest concern! (...and it's how things always turn out with Ojon or sweet almond.) My ends usually start out okay but by day 2 or 3 they definitely take a turn for the worse. It boggles me how the ends can be parched while the roots get oily. Ah well.

In regards to using the aloe juice vs. aloe gel, I've actually never tried it with the gel. It isn't something I keep in the house, but I always have aloe juice on hand so I've stuck with that. I go with SMT on dry hair vs. wet because the results seem to last longer than when I start with damp hair.

[LadyVictoria]

Ugh, I have been challenged my entire life by my super fine hair. Slips out of braids, clips and scrunchies. When I used to heat style, it would never hold a curl. Too much moisture makes it look greasy and too little moisture makes it look crunchy and straw-like. My hair does ok with teeny amounts of coconut oil and olive oil, I absolutely can NOT use conditioners with protein in them although cones seem to be ok for my hair.

In the winter I generally SMT once a week, condition my hair whenever I take a shower, and CWC twice weekly. I let my hair air dry and when it's almost dry I will apply a TINY amount of coconut oil to just my ends then layer a TINY amount of olive oil on top of that. Yes it weighs my hair down a little bit but it makes detangling so much easier and adds softness and shine to my ends, which without anything look dry and brittle. If I don't feel like messing with oils I will use some FX Silk Drops to my ends which seem to work good, despite the fact that it has some silk protein in it.

[K_Angel]

Detritus: Thanks very much for this info! :) Taking all of that into consideration, I'll definitely give coconut oil a shot. Not many products make me break out so I'll take a risk and see how my hair reacts to it.

K_Angel: Regarding the heaviness of the oils and the 'drowned rodent' look, that's my biggest concern! (...and it's how things always turn out with Ojon or sweet almond.) My ends usually start out okay but by day 2 or 3 they definitely take a turn for the worse. It boggles me how the ends can be parched while the roots get oily. Ah well.

I know you've probably heard this a million times, but having just figured out this little fact (after I too, had heard it a million times) for myself, it really does only take a VERY small amount of oil. I went from handfuls to a quarter amount in my hand and STILL ended up with the "drowned rodent" do!

Like, everyone tried to tell me... it really does only take one or two drops at the VERY most. Once I got that, I was able to use Camellia japonica on my hair. 2 drops only (rub hands together) on wet hair. And mostly at the ends and then once my hands are pretty much "oil free" then I run them down and through my hair real quick.

Anyway, with my fine hair, it gets overwhelmed with products very easily... and this is what I came up with for oiling. YMMV :blossom:

[Airisuu]

I know you've probably heard this a million times, but having just figured out this little fact (after I too, had heard it a million times) for myself, it really does only take a VERY small amount of oil. I went from handfuls to a quarter amount in my hand and STILL ended up with the "drowned rodent" do!

Like, everyone tried to tell me... it really does only take one or two drops at the VERY most. Once I got that, I was able to use Camellia japonica on my hair. 2 drops only (rub hands together) on wet hair. And mostly at the ends and then once my hands are pretty much "oil free" then I run them down and through my hair real quick.

Anyway, with my fine hair, it gets overwhelmed with products very easily... and this is what I came up with for oiling. YMMV :blossom:

Thank you for detailing your method, I'll definitely give it a shot! I'm sooo guilty of applying the two drops, thinking "There's no way that's enough!" and then adding more and borking it all up.

[K_Angel]

Thank you for detailing your method, I'll definitely give it a shot! I'm sooo guilty of applying the two drops, thinking "There's no way that's enough!" and then adding more and borking it all up.
That's me exactly!!!!! That's why it took me months to figure out... ohhhhhhhhhh :doh: they really do mean 2 drops!!!!! :rollin:

[K_Angel]

Ok, just in case anyone is interested.... I've decided that Cure Care Conditioner from Sally's is pure evil!!!! Yes, you heard me right! Evil! Just evil!!!!! :rollin:

Ok, maybe it's not bad for others????? But it fried my hair like there was no tomorrow!!!!!!! I had to really put just about everything I could on it, to help my poor hair to recover!!!!!!! :justy:

It was horrible, just horrible!!!!! Since there's only 5 ingredients in the whole bottle.... I'm guessing the high protein content was probably what did it. Talk about fried straw with rats nests galore!!!!! :shudder: I'm still holding a grudge!!! :rollin:

And on a more serious side.... :laugh: it had a weird "chalky" feel to it????? Is that normal???

Thank God I only do a test on the last 4 inches of hair first! Oh my! If I had done my whole head??????? I would be in tears right now!!!!!!!!

Ok......... so, on a happier note, I'm getting extremely close to trying a Cassia experiment on my hair. For test purposes, I'll just be using Chamomile tea and Cassia for my first try. I really hope this works! I feel like I could use some strength and softness in my hair about now! And my conditioners are just not doing that for me!

Anyone tried anything new lately? Did it work/not work????? Love to hear your stories! :)

[K_Angel]

I didn't know this thread was here. I guess I should join in.

I love the waves, but the fineness is HARD to deal with. Mostly for me, it's the tangles that makes it hard. On it's own, my hair would turn into dreadlocks within a week.

Lisa
Any tricks you use on your tangles?

[K_Angel]

Ugh, I have been challenged my entire life by my super fine hair. Slips out of braids, clips and scrunchies. When I used to heat style, it would never hold a curl. Too much moisture makes it look greasy and too little moisture makes it look crunchy and straw-like. My hair does ok with teeny amounts of coconut oil and olive oil, I absolutely can NOT use conditioners with protein in them although cones seem to be ok for my hair.

In the winter I generally SMT once a week, condition my hair whenever I take a shower, and CWC twice weekly. I let my hair air dry and when it's almost dry I will apply a TINY amount of coconut oil to just my ends then layer a TINY amount of olive oil on top of that. Yes it weighs my hair down a little bit but it makes detangling so much easier and adds softness and shine to my ends, which without anything look dry and brittle. If I don't feel like messing with oils I will use some FX Silk Drops to my ends which seem to work good, despite the fact that it has some silk protein in it.


Yeah, my hair does the "not stay in clips and scrunchies" thing too. I hate that!

Is your hair virgin? Or is part of the problem damaged hair?

[EvaSimone]

Figured I'd give a little update here. I used cassia mixed with water and then rinsed it out with water and coconut milk. Then finally I used non SLS shampoo and scalp washed.

The cassia added quite a bit of slip and shine and the coconut milk helped to add moisture back. I think I am going to add cassia into my routine now.

[rags]

Ok, just in case anyone is interested.... I've decided that Cure Care Conditioner from Sally's is pure evil!!!! Yes, you heard me right! Evil! Just evil!!!!! :rollin:

Ok, maybe it's not bad for others????? But it fried my hair like there was no tomorrow!!!!!!! I had to really put just about everything I could on it, to help my poor hair to recover!!!!!!! :justy:

It was horrible, just horrible!!!!! Since there's only 5 ingredients in the whole bottle.... I'm guessing the high protein content was probably what did it. Talk about fried straw with rats nests galore!!!!! :shudder: I'm still holding a grudge!!! :rollin:

And on a more serious side.... :laugh: it had a weird "chalky" feel to it????? Is that normal???

Thank God I only do a test on the last 4 inches of hair first! Oh my! If I had done my whole head??????? I would be in tears right now!!!!!!!!

Ok......... so, on a happier note, I'm getting extremely close to trying a Cassia experiment on my hair. For test purposes, I'll just be using Chamomile tea and Cassia for my first try. I really hope this works! I feel like I could use some strength and softness in my hair about now! And my conditioners are just not doing that for me!

Anyone tried anything new lately? Did it work/not work????? Love to hear your stories! :)

I tried Cure Care for CO. Exact same results! That stuff is the devil's cocktail, I tell you! :scared:

[K_Angel]

rags: :rollin: At least I'm not the only one that thinks so!!!! LOL

EvaSimonne: Thanks for the update!!! I really enjoy hearing what's working/not working for everyone. I'm hoping to try Cassia in a week or so too!!! I"m excited! :)

[rupunzlemom]

I tried a Cassia treatment right after New Years.............bad experience because of hard water, but after I got some citric acid on it to lighten it I have really wonderfully soft hair now. I am hoping to do another treatment in a week or two. It is something I will definitely be adding to my regular routine.

[K_Angel]

:cheese: Yay! I can't wait!!!! I want soft shiny hair!!!!!! :)

[K_Angel]

Still haven't had a chance to try the Cassia! I've had a terrible cold that I'm just now getting over. But as soon as I can handle it, I am so going to try this! :laugh:

Which reminds me, normally, when I try some new product I only try it on like the last four inches of my hair. With Cassia would that cause any problems to do it that way?

So, tell me, what have you all been up to in your hair experiments and such????? Any new success stories? Any new "what-not-to-do" thoughts?

Since my hair currently is plastered to my head in a most unbecoming fashion, and I don't feel good enough to do anything with it right this minute, I"m going to have to live vicariously through you all!!! :rollin:

[Rusalka]

Another 2a F checking in :)

I've only recently allowed my hair to wave, so I am still looking for the perfect routine. I am doing the basics with no heat, transitioning to no SLS/cone products. So far, I have discovered that:
1) CWC allows bouncy waves
2) Water & aloe gel add definition to waves
3) Henna makes my hair feel thicker and appears to "cover" colour damage

Thank you, K_Angel, for introducing me to this thread :) Happy to be here, "hello" to all 

[K_Angel]

:waving: Hi Rusalka! Welcome!!!! :)

Which products are you using?

[K_Angel]

This is a little off topic and I shared it on the "long hair sightings" thread... so I hope you don't mind me sharing here too?

My Dad went to the doctor's office the other day and saw a girl with hair down to her knees. He said he was sooooooooo tempted to go up to her and ask her if she knew about the LHC... but didn't want her to think he was weird.

He always tells me how nice my hair looks and how much it's improved since I started on the LHC. Sometimes I'll talk about something I've learned here and he'll say, "I'm just so glad you have them all! He's so sweet!

Back to our main subject: Our 2a/F hair! :cheese: :laugh:

I was just discovering that extracts means that it's been "pickled" in vodka. And since the Giovanni Smooth as Silk I use is a whole list of extract after extract, does that mean that other than water the next biggest ingredient in Giovanni is Vodka??? How is Vodka good for one's hair?

Who knows, maybe I"m just not getting it? :shrug:

[YesitsReal]

I'm a 2a/F, and I've been using Ida's Chamomile & Citrus shampoo bar twice followed by a DWV rinse and Suave Coconut conditioner from the ears down, though the other day I was going on a date and used 3MM all over (I had been cone-free for about a month and a half before that). I still don't feel like my hair is that great, even since I started taking good care of it. The ends always feel really rough and dry, and I have the new-growth fuzzies. It seems like everything I try works wonderfully for a few weeks and then just quits working. It gets frustrating. :rolleyes:

I was wondering if any of you 2a/Fs have layered hair, and if that makes it harder for you to grow (as in more prone to splits)? I went to the salon the other day, and I told the lady that my hair was starting to look a little heavy around the bottom since it's grown out. She asked if she could texturize it to take some of the weight out, and I agreed. Next thing I knew, she pulled out a texturizing razor and went to town! AACK!! I almost asked her if she'd ever seen what razor cutting does to your ends!! Plus, I don't think I have any fewer split ends than I did before the trim. ::shrug:: I may have to steer clear of my stylist from now on and do trims myself, which is sad, because I really like my layers. Also, I don't want to be trimming the bottom while splits are running up the top layers. But if the layering is killing my hair, I don't know if it's worth it. Anybody have experience with this?

[K_Angel]

:waving: Hi YesitsReal!

Most of the time, when a product works well for a while and then stops, it's because you need to clarify your hair. Do you clarify from time to time?

All the time I was growing out my hair I had long layers. They helped to keep the weight down. I had a trustworthy hair stylist at that time. But once she moved out of state, I quit going to have my hair cut in salons.

My hair was always healthy during that time too. :shrug: I think layers are a personal preference.

I'd probably still have long layers in my hair if she hadn't moved. Mind you, I could never tell I had layers. So it wasn't short, medium, long sort of layers.... Maybe that made a big difference?

I've never heard of Ida's Chamomile & Citrus Shampoo. Where do you get it?

[YesitsReal]

Sorry...Ida's isn't a brand. Ida makes Chagrin Valley soaps & shampoos. The Chamomile & Citrus is supposed to work well on blonde hair. I've really been impressed with it so far, but I definitely have to keep oil on my ends when I'm using it--the citrus makes it a tad drying.

Clarifying is a good idea. What do most of you use most often to clarify?

[K_Angel]

Sorry...Ida's isn't a brand. Ida makes Chagrin Valley soaps & shampoos. The Chamomile & Citrus is supposed to work well on blonde hair. I've really been impressed with it so far, but I definitely have to keep oil on my ends when I'm using it--the citrus makes it a tad drying.

Clarifying is a good idea. What do most of you use most often to clarify?
I use Nature's Gate Clarifying shampoo. But there's a cheap Suave Clarifier too. So you don't have to spend a lot of money to clarify. :blossom:

[Fethenwen]

Weird, I don't think I have participated in this thread yet.

So, hello, I would also fit into this rather frustrating category :)

I find that light and even sometimes heavy oiling does wonders, and also henna. Water only makes my hair awesome at times too. Sometimes simple shampoo is what it needs.


The biggest problem during my LHC experimenting is that my hair tends to get overwhelmed easily with almost anything or nothin :D So switching from one thing to another seems to be the only thing that helps. Like staying too long on one routine makes it go crazy.

[K_Angel]

:waving: Fethenwen, Welcome! :)

What are the oils, shampoo etc that you've tried and how do they work for you?

[K_Angel]

Ok......... I have a question.......

If I was so inclined to give up SLeS shampoo, what would adequately clean my oily scalp?

All the other "weaker" cleansers I've tried just mean greasy scalp in 12 hours or less.

And all the ALS types just ruin my hair.

I tried COing and that really didn't seem to work well for me.

I'm asking because, sometimes, if I don't rinse my hair out fast enough, my scalp will be itchy and my hair very dry. On off, usually works fine. Mind you, for my whole life it worked great... but my hair seems to have gotten a lot less greasy in the last 6 years. :shrug: :laugh:

Any ideas or thoughts on this? :blossom:

[YesitsReal]

Ok, I have to share this:

I washed my hair today (actually went for four days without washing, which is highly unusual, but that's another story), and it turned out AMAZING. Here's what I did:

Lathered once with Chagrin Valley Chamomile & Citrus shampoo bar. Rinsed. Lathered once with Chagrin Valley Honey Butter soap bar (their soaps are superfatted, so they make good conditioners, from what I've read). Rinsed. Squirted diluted DWV all over and let sit while I finished my shower. Cold rinsed. Squeezed out my hair with a towel and then wrapped it in said towel for about 15 minutes. Let it air-dry with just finger-combing (never tried this before). Combed out when dry.

My hair is silky, shiny, soft, with very few new growth fuzzies, and my ends even feel good! My scalp is relatively happy (at least as happy as it ever is after a wash--SD is evil and it hates me). I think I've found my new routine, which is awesome, because I've been trying for months to find a good routine. I hope it lasts! ::crosses fingers::

K_Angel,

Have you tried shampoo bars? My scalp gets pretty oily, but these (esp the ones made for oily hair) clean pretty well. Really well if you lather twice, which is what most people recommend. HTH.

[K_Angel]

Ok, I have to share this:

I washed my hair today (actually went for four days without washing, which is highly unusual, but that's another story), and it turned out AMAZING. Here's what I did:

Lathered once with Chagrin Valley Chamomile & Citrus shampoo bar. Rinsed. Lathered once with Chagrin Valley Honey Butter soap bar (their soaps are superfatted, so they make good conditioners, from what I've read). Rinsed. Squirted diluted DWV all over and let sit while I finished my shower. Cold rinsed. Squeezed out my hair with a towel and then wrapped it in said towel for about 15 minutes. Let it air-dry with just finger-combing (never tried this before). Combed out when dry.

My hair is silky, shiny, soft, with very few new growth fuzzies, and my ends even feel good! My scalp is relatively happy (at least as happy as it ever is after a wash--SD is evil and it hates me). I think I've found my new routine, which is awesome, because I've been trying for months to find a good routine. I hope it lasts! ::crosses fingers::

K_Angel,

Have you tried shampoo bars? My scalp gets pretty oily, but these (esp the ones made for oily hair) clean pretty well. Really well if you lather twice, which is what most people recommend. HTH.
Congratulations!!!! :cheese:

It's just so nice, with our hair type, to have a really good experience!!! :)

Can you tell me more about your hair? You have a fairly oil scalp? Is it a, "have to wash it every other day for it to look clean", kind of oily? Or?

Is the rest of your hair dry? Not fried, just needing moisture?

Is it virgin hair or colored, etc?

Is your hair low, medium or high porosity?

I only ask these questions, because some have had VERY bad experiences with shampoo bars and I'd like to see how similar my hair is to yours before I try it. But you're tempting me to try it. :)

One thing I was concerned about is that many talk about build up and that they have to use ACV (apple cider vinegar) to clarify. ACV and I don't get along very well! :rollin:

By the way, what is DWV???

Please, please, please keep us posted on how it's going!!!! I'm very excited for your find!!! :blossom:

[YesitsReal]

Sure!

If I lather my hair twice with the soap bar, I can go for a day without washing, and it will still look fairly clean at the end of the day. If I lather once, it will look oily by the end of the next day. So, my hair is not super-oily, but before I was taking care of it, I had to wash it every day for it to be presentable. I have seborrheic dermatitis around my hairline, so I try very hard not to use sulfates, as they can aggravate the problem. If you have SD, you'll know that pretty much anything, including (but not limited to) looking at it funny, aggravates the problem. Finding a shampoo that doesn't irritate my scalp is a BIG deal.

From the ears down, my hair is dry. I have to condition a lot, and it still feels pretty rough and dry most of the time, especially the very ends. I have a hard time finding the balance between not enough oil on my ends and too much. I have been cone-free for about a month and a half (aside from the one date-night deep condition), because I felt like I couldn't tell what my ends were really like with the cones on my hair. Cones would probably help with the dryness and tangling, but I like to be able to tell the true condition of my hair.

My hair is light to medium blonde and entirely virgin, but it is layered. Also, I blow-dry it once every two months (maybe), and my stylist flat irons it when she trims it (about every two months or so, depending on my budget and the condition of my ends).

I have no idea about the porosity. I don't know how to tell. If I had to guess, I'd say it is low-porosity, because even coconut oil has a little trouble absorbing into it.

A lot of people do have buildup with shampoo bars due to hard water. The Chagrin Valley (CV) website has a LOT of tips on what to do if you have hard water. I don't really have hard water, but I use the DWV (distilled white vinegar) rinse because vinegar rinses close the hair cuticle, adds shine, and lowers the pH of my scalp & makes it an unfriendly place for the SD to live. I encourage you to explore their FAQs before you buy anything. The CV website also talks about alternatives to ACV, like baking soda rinses and rinsing your hair in rainwater, as rainwater is very soft. The lady who makes the soap is a chemistry teacher, so she explains chemically what happens when you make soap and get hard-water buildup with soap use. It's pretty interesting.

Wow, that was a lot of info. I hope that helps. :)

[sarah061]

Gah, I am so glad this thread exists! I never know what to do with my hair :(

[K_Angel]

Sure!

If I lather my hair twice with the soap bar, I can go for a day without washing, and it will still look fairly clean at the end of the day. If I lather once, it will look oily by the end of the next day. So, my hair is not super-oily, but before I was taking care of it, I had to wash it every day for it to be presentable. I have seborrheic dermatitis around my hairline, so I try very hard not to use sulfates, as they can aggravate the problem. If you have SD, you'll know that pretty much anything, including (but not limited to) looking at it funny, aggravates the problem. Finding a shampoo that doesn't irritate my scalp is a BIG deal.

From the ears down, my hair is dry. I have to condition a lot, and it still feels pretty rough and dry most of the time, especially the very ends. I have a hard time finding the balance between not enough oil on my ends and too much. I have been cone-free for about a month and a half (aside from the one date-night deep condition), because I felt like I couldn't tell what my ends were really like with the cones on my hair. Cones would probably help with the dryness and tangling, but I like to be able to tell the true condition of my hair.

My hair is light to medium blonde and entirely virgin, but it is layered. Also, I blow-dry it once every two months (maybe), and my stylist flat irons it when she trims it (about every two months or so, depending on my budget and the condition of my ends).

I have no idea about the porosity. I don't know how to tell. If I had to guess, I'd say it is low-porosity, because even coconut oil has a little trouble absorbing into it.

A lot of people do have buildup with shampoo bars due to hard water. The Chagrin Valley (CV) website has a LOT of tips on what to do if you have hard water. I don't really have hard water, but I use the DWV (distilled white vinegar) rinse because vinegar rinses close the hair cuticle, adds shine, and lowers the pH of my scalp & makes it an unfriendly place for the SD to live. I encourage you to explore their FAQs before you buy anything. The CV website also talks about alternatives to ACV, like baking soda rinses and rinsing your hair in rainwater, as rainwater is very soft. The lady who makes the soap is a chemistry teacher, so she explains chemically what happens when you make soap and get hard-water buildup with soap use. It's pretty interesting.

Wow, that was a lot of info. I hope that helps. :)
Oh goody! I like a Chemistry based person. It always makes me feel better to know why it does what it does!

I think I'll go over there and look at her FAQ and will ask any questions I might have! Thank you very much for the suggestion! :blossom:

[K_Angel]

sarah061: :waving: Welcome! :blossom:

What is the current problem you are working on most right now?

[K_Angel]

YesitsReal: you didn't mention whether or not you have tangly hair, so I'm guessing no? I only ask because our hair is fairly similar in all other respects. But I'm wondering if the tangle thing would mean our hair will react different to the CV bars?

[YesitsReal]

Oh, yes. If I leave my hair down at all ever, it gets tangled, and it doesn't like to come untangled very easily.