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merseaone
October 31st, 2009, 10:02 AM
I have baby fine hair and am having a problem: the hem always looks frayed even after trimming them. I've had 3/4 inch cut off and yet they still don't look good. I am being as careful as I can with combing the ends. I have been using several different conditioners (I C/O) to see what helps and am looking at mixing some of them.

I am just wondering if the faerie tale ends are just what people with fine hair is to expect?

Dolly
October 31st, 2009, 10:39 AM
I have baby fine hair.....some of my stylists have referred to it as "cat hair", because that is about the consistency of it.....I have CO'ed on occassion, and still do.....BUT I have found that CV shampoo bars, follwed by a vinegar rinse has given my hair a texture that is more like real hair and less like spider web strands.....I also found through experimentation that my hair NEEDS cones for the protection....otherwise I get lots and lots of splits and breakage! I just make sure to clarify when my hair shows signs of buildup, and its all good!

MsBubbles
October 31st, 2009, 11:11 AM
I often find that dusting just a half a centimeter or so off my ends (using Feye's Self Trim method) helps them look less raggedy.

As Dolly proves, you may find things over time that might help the appearance of your hemline.

On the other hand, your hair may be in superb condition already, and just falls that way. Don't go thinking it looks bad though. There are people out there who love the look of thin, fine hair, like it's fairytailish or elven.

Having said that, I regularly covet other people's thick, blanket-like tresses and wish mine were like that :shrug:.

Another viewpoint is that I think my hair separated worse when it was around APL. The longer it gets, the easier it is for me to keep it hanging all together...even if it is in a relatively thin strip, compared to people with (iii) hair circumference!

Dolly: those are some serious curls for a 1a! Very cool.

ETA: I did the dusting probably once every 6 weeks when I was trying to tidy/thicken up my hemline, and now about once every 3-4 months.

Kris Dove
October 31st, 2009, 11:21 AM
I also found through experimentation that my hair NEEDS cones for the protection....otherwise I get lots and lots of splits and breakage! I just make sure to clarify when my hair shows signs of buildup, and its all good!My fine hair likes either a coney serum or a volumising leave in conditioner- (Daniel Field or Giovanni make good ones).


I often find that dusting just a half a centimeter or so off my ends (using Feye's Self Trim method) helps them look less raggedy.
.Yes indeed, I do this too.

My other top tip would be, if you are wearing your hair loose, then bun or braid waves give it more volume and the hemline is less noticeable.;)

Wind Dragon
October 31st, 2009, 11:39 AM
My other top tip would be, if you are wearing your hair loose, then bun or braid waves give it more volume and the hemline is less noticeable.;)

This is the only thing I've found that reliably makes me happy about my hair when it's loose. I have a teeny bit of natural wave, but it rarely extends all the way to the ends (ETA, my sig-pic shows the natural wave at it's very best.) The increasing thinness through the length and barely-there ends look a lot better to me after it comes down from a twist or knot.

merseaone
October 31st, 2009, 12:56 PM
"I often find that dusting just a half a centimeter or so off my ends (using Feye's Self Trim method) helps them look less raggedy. "

My hair isn't quite long enough to do a self trim. Sorry pic is so big!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_g2d3xhd3dj0/SoGOUQzHV_I/AAAAAAAAAwk/BHyGZBm38a4/s1600/054.JPG

Canarygirl
October 31st, 2009, 01:00 PM
"I often find that dusting just a half a centimeter or so off my ends (using Feye's Self Trim method) helps them look less raggedy. "

My hair isn't quite long enough to do a self trim.

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/image.php?u=24047&dateline=1250174736

Same here.

As an alternative to cones, for me a conditioner that includes shea butter helps the texture tremendously. For example Aubrey Organics HoneySuckle condish, or Jessicurl "Too Shea."

Delila
October 31st, 2009, 03:13 PM
You don't mention your hair type, (i.e., 1a, 2b, etc., describing waviness or lack thereof), so I wonder if your hair is maybe wavier than you realize, and the seeming raggedness is just your waves way of making their presence known?

My waves are kind of on the wimpy side, but they definitely exist. I didn't realize I even HAD wavy hair until I quit blowdrying my hair, so they really came as something of a shock.

Babyfine
October 31st, 2009, 03:45 PM
I'm always trimming because my ends tend to fairytale a lot- and of course it keeps me from getting the length I want.
I'm a wavy- so I think that's why my ends fairy-tale easily- besides having babyfine frog fuzz.
Fine hair needs to be treated like antique lace.

MemSahib
October 31st, 2009, 05:20 PM
My ends are what keep me at classic instead of going longer. Waaaaaaay back at BS and even at waist the ends looked reasonably thick but began to wimp out immediately with just a tad more length. I wanted classic and I have classic, but my siggy will show you that the ends are just not going to make it much further. I trim several times a year to keep it pretty much right there.

Babyfine has its own beauty and positives, though. Is any other type softer or silkier?

Morag
October 31st, 2009, 05:44 PM
I've got that! I call it "spiderweb hair" When it gets in my face sometimes it feels like I've just walked through a big spiderweb. Just last week I was laughing because I and about four other women, all with shoulder length or longer hair, walked out into a mildly windy parking lot and while their hair continued to lie all nice and pretty on their shoulders and backs, mine did an instant Medusa - waving, curling, flying tentacles all around my head, lol!

I was never able to grow it long because it was so fine that it seemed to be breaking from its own weight whenever it went past jaw length. Hair stylists' advice reinforced that impression. Turns out it wasn't breaking from its weight - it was breaking because it was so dry.

Since I joined LHC, I have stopped shampooing altogether - I always CO. I use a thicker conditioner on the ends so they are left slightly more oily after the rinse. I also find that using a tiny bit of camellia oil on my hair when it is feeling dry will strengthen it AND give it a bit more "hairlike" texture. It doesn't make my hair flatten - it seems to give it more body.

I trim the ends regularly, even though I no longer seem to get many split ends, because I am trying to even up all the layers. Each time I trim, the ends look thicker. Although in comparison to some it's not very thick, my hair is now thicker than I ever imagined it could be, not to mention much longer. I hope someday to develop a reasonably substantial hem.

I thought someone above said she has found her hair needs cones - can't find it now, though. Anyhow, I have found the opposite. I have a problem with dryness, and when I use cones they seem to build up and hold moisture OUT, with the result that although initially they seem to help, after a couple of months my hair begins to break and thin badly.

So, that's what works for me, but I still have Medusa hair in the breeze. DNA is DNA, after all. :p

Oh, MemSahib, the SHINE on that silky fine hair of yours! Marvelous!


[edited for basic coherence]

jojo
October 31st, 2009, 06:09 PM
Yep i have baby fine hair and I need to dust regular if I want to keep my ends blunt, I am moving more though to 6 monthly trims. I keep my hair up most of the time, so those ends are hiden and actually are a bonus with buns!

Kris Dove
October 31st, 2009, 06:35 PM
My new sig pic- of me in 1992- shows just how much volume braid waves can give it, and inspires me to keep growing to great lengths and not give up now just because my hair is fine.

Wind Dragon
October 31st, 2009, 06:48 PM
You don't mention your hair type, (i.e., 1a, 2b, etc., describing waviness or lack thereof), so I wonder if your hair is maybe wavier than you realize, and the seeming raggedness is just your waves way of making their presence known?

merseaone, after seeing that closeup of your avatar, I'm wondering the same thing. Is that your natural wave in front, there?

Delila
October 31st, 2009, 08:01 PM
Another thought I've had: I notice your length is currently listed at about 21". Back when I was growing out my hair, I still had TONS of layers, so my hemline seemed woefully thin and ragged, no matter what I did.

Admittedly, now at classic, my hemline's still quite thin compared to others, but it's way thicker than I'd ever thought it could be.

MemSahib
October 31st, 2009, 08:52 PM
"Medusa hair" — I like the phrase! My hair does that in the slightest breeze. Whoosh! Up and away it goes, attempting to escape my scalp, apparently! LOL.

And thank you, Morag. Camera flash. Camera flash.

girlcat36
October 31st, 2009, 09:34 PM
My hair is very fine and 'cob webby', and I always have fairy tale ends, no matter what length.
I do find that using cones caused lot of breakage for me. I have finally gotten to BSL after years of trying by giving up cones.

vindo
October 31st, 2009, 09:35 PM
merseaone (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/member.php?u=24047)
Your hair being fine does not seem to be the problem alone. To me it looks a bit damaged at the bottom, therefore creating the frayed look. The hair closer to your roots seems to have a different texture.
Have you lightened your hair in any way? One thing most peoples F hair does not like is dye..I have a friend who quit dyeing her fine hair and the changes are amazing!


My ends are what keep me at classic instead of going longer. Waaaaaaay back at BS and even at waist the ends looked reasonably thick but began to wimp out immediately with just a tad more length. I wanted classic and I have classic, but my siggy will show you that the ends are just not going to make it much further. I trim several times a year to keep it pretty much right there.


Your ends look nice to me and not like the end is near ;)
True, most of us struggle at some point with taper and thin ends. But it is not always the end, more of a struggle, it just takes the other hairs that are on their way to great lengths much longer now to get to that length.
That is why many maintain if they the aim for even more length.

Flynn
October 31st, 2009, 09:37 PM
Is your hair blown or ironed straight in that pic?

harpgal
November 1st, 2009, 11:25 AM
True, most of us struggle at some point with taper and thin ends. But it is not always the end, more of a struggle, it just takes the other hairs that are on their way to great lengths much longer now to get to that length. That is why many maintain if they the aim for even more length.Yes, this is true. Hair grows unevenly for most (but not all), and it takes a long time for a hem to fill in.

I have very fine hair. I am just a couple of inches from knee length. Routine trims, careful management, and wearing tresses up, help one to gain more length.

Basically, there are two things going on. One is uneven growing patterns. The other is, just how long the hair will stay in the follicle and how many will stay the longest.

We are all different, but it definitely is worth a shot to see just how long we can get. That's the challenge. But the secret is to be happy right where you are....today. And enjoy the process. :flower:

merseaone
November 2nd, 2009, 02:00 PM
Morag, did you ever live on Randall Ave in Norfolk, Va? I had a friend growing up named Morag Mc Dougall and she had a brother named Gordon. Believe it or not I just started writing a Novel for NanoWrimo (National Novel Writing Month) and my main characters name is MORAG! I can't believe it! Such an unusual name.

Morag
November 3rd, 2009, 06:18 PM
Morag McDougall - now there's a name to make a life with! I love it. But nope, not me. I did think of moving to Virginia once, but got talked out of it. My first name is actually Morgan, but I like Morag so I chose it for my screen name. A bit more celtic is always good. :)

RocketDog
November 3rd, 2009, 08:33 PM
I have very fine hair, but it's curly so I can hide a multitude of flaws by coaxing out the texture. When it's slicked back or straightened you can see every little imperfection, but the sheer chaos of the curls hides it all. When I wore my hair styled straight I did get it trimmed every 6-8 weeks to keep the ends and shape looking presentable, but now that it's longer I let it go until the ends tell me they need to go. In the last 6 months I have done one all-over self trim and tidy up my fringe every other month, and I think it looks okay as it is.

I have had a lot of luck with the Whole Foods store brand shampoos and conditioners, they seem to work really well for my hair. The shampoo is cleansing enough to keep my roots from looking and feeling gunky, but not so harsh that the length suffers; the conditioner is thick enough to moisturize the length without weighing stuff down uptop (I do use a tidge of thicker conditioner on the ends now that my hair is longer - Organix tea tree and peppermint)

jivete
November 3rd, 2009, 08:48 PM
I'm always trimming because my ends tend to fairytale a lot- and of course it keeps me from getting the length I want.
I'm a wavy- so I think that's why my ends fairy-tale easily- besides having babyfine frog fuzz.


I have this problem too. I trim, but I still can't seem to get my hem thick enough.

To the OP, I do think fine hair seems to want to fairy tale more, but I'm not sure if it's because the hair breaks more easily or just tends to look thinner.

Themyst
November 3rd, 2009, 09:07 PM
I have very fine hair, so fine that it won't stay behind my back as I move about the house and it flies around and gets caught on doorknobs, etc. I was on my way to terminal, however, after taking an update picture recently I am reconsidering. Here's where I am now:

http://themysteriouslady.com/update.jpg

But you must know that I had my daughter push the ends together so it would look its best for my update picture (because otherwise it would have looked separated). Normally, when I wear my hair down, I use hairspray and that takes care of it. This pic was freshly washed and air dried.

Now, here is a pic *before the primping*:

http://themysteriouslady.com/separatedhair.jpg

I hope I do not have to cut back to hip in order to keep blunt ends (which is what I personally prefer). I know this is happening because my strands are so fine. When I first started using henna, everyone kept talking about a 'stand test' and I kept thinking they were crazy - if I have a strand of my hair in my hand I can hardly see it! I wound up collecting hairballs for my test. :o But, then you have people like Emichiee who look smashing with their fine, blunt ends. What is Themyst to do? :hmm:

Elenna
November 3rd, 2009, 09:57 PM
After seeing all of you with very long fine hair, it is very encouraging.

I'm growing out a lot of damage and it is taking a long time.

My fine hair which seems at times a hassle can be very pretty when washed and pinned up for a while. Then I let the hairstick out and get big silky curls. Guess that my hair is finally long enough for this.

KarenH1
November 4th, 2009, 02:46 PM
Hi Harpgal, I love your hair! I can see you are an inspiration, as maybe your hair is similar to mine. My hair is very thin, and would love to get it to my waist at least. A question, should I grow out the hair to get the layers all the same length, or just grow it and not worry about the layers? Did your hair at anytime have different lengths?

MsBubbles
November 4th, 2009, 03:18 PM
I hope I do not have to cut back to hip in order to keep blunt ends (which is what I personally prefer).

But, then you have people like Emichiee who look smashing with their fine, blunt ends.

Emi's lovely hair isn't fine...it's medium texture, I believe. :).

And your hair is amazing, Themyst. I love the way you said '...have to cut back to hip' (for BSL-me, that just sounds so wonderful).

Themyst
November 4th, 2009, 03:22 PM
Thanks, MsBubbles. :o I guess my hair isn't too scraggly, but it does get very separated and doesn't lay as I would prefer. It is just so very light and flyaway. When I wear it down, I must primp it and spray it in place with a medium hairspray and that usually does the trick. Except, I don't have this problem on humid days. My fine hair loves humid weather.

harpgal
November 6th, 2009, 07:19 PM
Themyst, I really looked at your photos. I am pretty picky about hemlines and I think yours is just fine (no pun intended - :D). Very small frequent trims will keep your hemline as full as it can possibly be. My hair floats around me and does not drape like some who have medium or coarse hair. It's just the way it is and unique to me. Also, my hair loves humidity. It gets very wavy and fluffy. Also, it tangles less. But a dry environment usually causes tangles and fine "fly-aways" sticking up all over my head. What you discribe seems to be the norm for many of us. Don't be discouraged. Your tresses are most beautiful. :)


Hi Harpgal, I love your hair! I can see you are an inspiration, as maybe your hair is similar to mine. My hair is very thin, and would love to get it to my waist at least. A question, should I grow out the hair to get the layers all the same length, or just grow it and not worry about the layers? Did your hair at anytime have different lengths?
Thank you Karen for your kind words. I think you probably can get your hair to your waist if you are careful with it and treat it gently. That means combing very slowly with the teeth of the comb pointed slightly up. Do not brush quickly off the ends and definitely do not brush through your hair if it has not been de-tangled first.

I have had short hair (with layers) only once in my life when I was in my early 20s. Right after the haircut, I hated it and never cut it again, except for trims. What I did was go to a barber and slowly, he trimmed so that it became all one length. I think it was just above my shoulders when it was all one length.

Then I continued to grow, trimming very little about 3-4 times a years. Sometimes my hubby would trim as little as 1/4 inch off, and sometimes he would trim an inch off. It really depended on what it needed at the time. To be honest, I never gave it much thought 'til I joined this community in 2004. Then I got caught up with going for length (and worrying too much about it - LOL). Now, I pretty much just let it do it's own thing, but still do small trims a few times a year. I guess I trim off about half my yearly growth, but it is the only way I can keep a somewhat full hemline. HTH...:)

Themyst
November 6th, 2009, 08:03 PM
Themyst, I really looked at your photos. I am pretty picky about hemlines and I think yours is just fine (no pun intended - :D). Very small frequent trims will keep your hemline as full as it can possibly be. My hair floats around me and does not drape like some who have medium or coarse hair. It's just the way it is and unique to me. Also, my hair loves humidity. It gets very wavy and fluffy. Also, it tangles less. But a dry environment usually causes tangles and fine "fly-aways" sticking up all over my head. What you discribe seems to be the norm for many of us. Don't be discouraged. Your tresses are most beautiful. :)

Thank you, harpgal! That is very encouraging. I really have been fretting over this ever since I took those photos. I had taken some photos (that I did not post) about a week or so before and had the same results of separated hair. I was hoping it was just a bad day. My siggy photo is of me in the summer where I am outside actually pooper scooping, so you see how my hair is so light that it automatically drapes over my arms and flies over my shoulders as I move about. My hair seems to be growing at an astounding rate since I treat it better now (thanks LHC!) and I really want to go terminal, but will consider cutting back if it starts to look too straggly. As I am not in a position to make that judgment for myself, I must rely on my fellow hair people. :)

Autumnberry
November 13th, 2009, 10:03 AM
I have this problem too. I trim, but I still can't seem to get my hem thick enough.

To the OP, I do think fine hair seems to want to fairy tale more, but I'm not sure if it's because the hair breaks more easily or just tends to look thinner.

From experience with my baby fine hair that almost always spiderwebs over the shoulders and back, fairy tale propensity is due to BOTH breakage and the look of fine hair. I am now at BSL and was wondering if it could reach waist and look decent. Recently finding a very old picture of my hair spiderwebing at tailbone length was quite encouraging :D.

Dry air does make it a lot worse and it's very hard to use any type of leave in products without wearing the hair down and causing clumping. I'm hoping for more advice from all my fellow baby fines--are you out there????