Terminal at Shoulder Length?

[hmmm]

Is it possible for people to have a terminal length that's very short, say at the shoulders? I had a friend who couldn't grow hair beyond APL in school... she was on the obese side and never ate properly, and I don't know if it was damaged or not or if it ever grew beyond that later on.
Is it possible for it to be genetically impossible for some people to grow hair very long? Do you know what the average length most people can grow is?
I'd hate for this to happen to me shudder:

[earthpulse]

The anagen period of the hair cycle, which is when growth occurs, usually lasts 2-7 years. During this time the hair follicle produces hair at a rate of about 1-2 cm per month (this rate often reduces past a certain length.) So there is a lot of variance between individuals determined mostly by genetics. One person may have a growth cycle of 2 years and a growth rate of 1 cm per month so their terminal length of 24 cm (about 9.5 in) won't be much more than shoulder length. On the other hand, someone could have a growth cycle of 7 years combined with a faster growth rate and this person could grow hair to the floor. So yep, both extremes are definitely possible but they're not typical. Most of us are somewhere in between.

[Cat Lady]

My mother told me many times that she physically can't grow her hair past her shoulders. She grew it and grew it when she was younger without cutting for a very long time and it just didn't get any longer :confused: She has a good diet, and has never heat styled or dyed and only washes it once or twice a week. Her hairdresser said the same thing that Earthpulse said. Mum is just one of the extremes.

I'm pretty sure I inherited my hair from my Dad though! :D Coarse, wavy and oily, not feather-fine and straight like Mum's. (I think my Mum is beautiful, so that's not a bad thing.)

I'm a bit comforted to know I have previously been able to grow my hair past shoulder length. I wonder how long it will grow? I've never really thought much about the genetics of hair before but now I have all sorts of thoughts flying around my head!

I'd be so embarassed to hit a road block so soon :(

[Smitts]

I have been growing my hair for around 5 and a half years.
I really don't my terminal length to be anytime soon.

I feel like my hair has a lot of growing to go still because even though it's been a couple of years the ends don't look thin at all. I mean they are thinner but not by that much. I'll be happy if the terminal point of my hair is just past my butt. If not, I'll cry. :(

[ambychelle]

I'm sure it's possible. My mom has always had hair that was to her waist. She is very very gentle with her hair and she only gets a trim every few years and even then it's small. So I guess that waist is terminal length for her. Which is, luckily, the length she likes best.

I have a feeling my terminal length is about waist too. When I was a teenager, I only trimmed a couple of inches every 2 years or so and it never got longer than a couple of inches above waist.

[Rivanariko]

If you had asked me before I found LHC, I would have told you that my terminal length was just past BSL, since that's where my hair had been for years and had never really grown past that. I never heat styled or used any sort of chemicals on it, and I tended to wash infrequently just because I was busy/lazy and wouldn't get around to taking a shower. Of course, I also wore it down all the time, which with my fine hair, meant tangles galore. Did I carefully detangle it every day? No. I ripped a brush through it 2-3 times a day, literally tearing it to shreds. Since joining LHC, I've stopped doing that and started consciously stretching washes. I wear it up 90% of the time and make a conscious effort not to touch it when it's wet. I have brushed my hair maybe 3 times since joining. My hair has grown almost 4 inches since June (I trimmed in August because my ends were really scraggly and gross).

I don't know about my genetics. My mother has the same fine, thin hair that I do and I don't think she's been much past APL. Her sister, though, had classic length hair when they were kids. Of course, her hair is dark, thick, coarse and wavy, pretty much the exact opposite of mine. All of the women on my dad's side of the family have had bobs and pixies as long as I've known them, so no clues there.

I think a lot of the key is just finding the right routine FOR YOU. Until you figure out what that is, you'll never know what kind of growth potential you have.

[Lemur_Catta]

I have always thought that it is very unlikely to have such a short terminal length, because most of the times people who says their hair can't grow any longer have blunt or almost blunt hemlines.
If the hemline is blunt, and the hair is almost the same thickness throughout the length, that can't be terminal length.
When you reach terminal length, your hair doesn't stop growing, but as soon as the strand reach that length, it stops growing for some time and then falls off.
Of course, every strand of hair on our head is at a different phase of the cycle, because if it wasn't like that, we would grow ALL our hair until a certain point, and then it would ALL fall off, leaving us bald. But that doesn't happen, so every strand has his own "story" and his own cycle.
Now, when a strand ends his cycle and falls off, it is replaced by another strand which starts growing from the same follicle.
So, when someone reach terminal length, he has a lot of taper, because for every strand (long) that falls, there is a new strand which starts growing (short). Everyone has some taper, because everyone sheds, but it is usually not really noticeable until the hair is really long, waist or beyond. That's why one of the methods used to determine terminal length is to measure ponytail's circumference at different length, and draw a linear graph. We can then estimate at what length our ponytail circumference will be 0, and that would be approximately our terminal length.

@cat lady: you says your mother has very fine hair. Maybe even if she doesn't heat style or dye her hair, she treats it the same way the average person would: no DT, no oilings, just shampoo and condition. Maybe this is just not enough for her fine hair, though it would be enough to grow coarser hair. Has she tried looking for broken hairs when she brushes her hair? Last year my hair was so damaged that every time I brushed it, I would find a lot of little broken hairs, maybe 1-2 cm long. Maybe it is the same for her, people with fine hair really needs to protect their ends to grow their hair.

[Babyfine]

I heard my mom and grandma talking when I was little about my great grandma-my paternal grandfathers mother-Not being able to grow hair past her shoulders.
She was born about 1875-so this was back before women routinely cut their hair short. She would have been in her 40's when women started bobbing their hair. I didn't pay much attention or ask questions back then as the conversation happened when I was about 11- But boy I wish I would have. I would have asked all kinds of questions if I had overheard that now.
She also had very fine hair, they said. I never met her- she died before I was born.
I think in most cases, though, breakage is the culprit rather than a short terminal length. I never could get my hair much past my shoulders when I was abusing it.
(Like perms, heavy highlights.)Now I'm to bottom of BSL.
But it's certainly possible that some may actually have a short terminal length.

[spidermom]

What was said above about looking blunt can't be terminal length isn't true. I had a roommate whose hair never got longer than between APL and BSL. It was nice hair, at least average thickness, dark, and it always looked trimmed, but she never trimmed it. She didn't have to as that appeared to be terminal length for most of her hairs, so her hem never looked extremely uneven. She wasn't abusive to her hair, either. She wore it braided a lot, didn't heat style, didn't curl, didn't perm. I knew her for at least 10 years. She never got hair cuts, and her hair never grew longer.

But this is pretty rare. The best way to find your terminal length is to take good care of your hair and be patient.

[Arniky]

maybe wait some more time it could grow more

[Cat Lady]

I have always thought that it is very unlikely to have such a short terminal length, because most of the times people who says their hair can't grow any longer have blunt or almost blunt hemlines.
If the hemline is blunt, and the hair is almost the same thickness throughout the length, that can't be terminal length.
When you reach terminal length, your hair doesn't stop growing, but as soon as the strand reach that length, it stops growing for some time and then falls off.
Of course, every strand of hair on our head is at a different phase of the cycle, because if it wasn't like that, we would grow ALL our hair until a certain point, and then it would ALL fall off, leaving us bald. But that doesn't happen, so every strand has his own "story" and his own cycle.
Now, when a strand ends his cycle and falls off, it is replaced by another strand which starts growing from the same follicle.
So, when someone reach terminal length, he has a lot of taper, because for every strand (long) that falls, there is a new strand which starts growing (short). Everyone has some taper, because everyone sheds, but it is usually not really noticeable until the hair is really long, waist or beyond. That's why one of the methods used to determine terminal length is to measure ponytail's circumference at different length, and draw a linear graph. We can then estimate at what length our ponytail circumference will be 0, and that would be approximately our terminal length.

@cat lady: you says your mother has very fine hair. Maybe even if she doesn't heat style or dye her hair, she treats it the same way the average person would: no DT, no oilings, just shampoo and condition. Maybe this is just not enough for her fine hair, though it would be enough to grow coarser hair. Has she tried looking for broken hairs when she brushes her hair? Last year my hair was so damaged that every time I brushed it, I would find a lot of little broken hairs, maybe 1-2 cm long. Maybe it is the same for her, people with fine hair really needs to protect their ends to grow their hair.

Mum always wanted longer hair so she was very careful, and always told me never to use anything but a wide tooth comb on my hair. She only ever used a wide tooth comb herself. I honestly beleive that it's just her genetics because once her hair gets to below chin length it starts to taper a lot and really thin out, and she never had layers put in to cause it. I completely understand that if she was ripping it up with a brush all the time it would be a very different story.

[Cat Lady]

Actually... she does tend to pile hair on top of her head to shampoo it! That'd be it. She washes it in the bathoom sink. I could never do that. Makes sense now!

[hela]

If she doesn't take care of her hair nor her health much that might be the answer. Does she wish to let it grow?

[Flynn]

Extremely poor health can affect hair growth in that way... though my knowledge of this is for poor health at the opposite weight extreme, I can't see why this could not be true in this case.

[Cat Lady]

If she doesn't take care of her hair nor her health much that might be the answer. Does she wish to let it grow?

My Mum is very healthy so that's not the issue. And nah she's given up on growing it now. It was just relevant to this thread I thought.

[Teufelchen]

If it is around shoulder length, it rubs against them and perhaps she brakes them before they can grow longer.

[bte]

As said above, there is a huge variation between shortest and longest terminal lengths. The longest single hair on my head is about 11 inches long, and I have not had a trim for 16 years. When I was younger I had individual hairs up to 16" long, so my terminal length has lessened over the years. However, the average terminal length is considered to be around 36" (measuring the length of individual hairs, not from the hairline at the front as done on LHC), which is around fingertip length on an average height person.

[Cat Lady]

As said above, there is a huge variation between shortest and longest terminal lengths. The longest single hair on my head is about 11 inches long, and I have not had a trim for 16 years. When I was younger I had individual hairs up to 16" long, so my terminal length has lessened over the years. However, the average terminal length is considered to be around 36" (measuring the length of individual hairs, not from the hairline at the front as done on LHC), which is around fingertip length on an average height person.

It sounds like you're in a similar situation to my Mum, bte. Some people's hairs only grow for around 2 years before shedding and starting over. That doesn't mean they can't have gorgeous healthy hair though :)

To be honest I am feeling frustrated that I was just trying to answer the OP's question that it is possible to be terminal at shoulder length and many people are trying to say my Mum is probably unhealthy or doesn't take care of her hair and rips it up with a brush when that's not true at all. She's had the same hairdresser for 30 years who agrees that her hair just has a very short lifespan compared with many people, and it isn't breaking off. Plus she's not here to defend herself so I don't want to really discuss it any further except to say that yes it is possible to be terminal around shoulder.

Those with the ability to grow much longer hair may be skilled in hair care, but are also blessed that it is possible for them :D

[Buddaphlyy]

Yes, I think it is very possible. I've seen lots of people who have grown their hair to terminal length (never as short as sl though), and most are long, but definitely not to the floor either. The thing about the word "average" is that some people are below it and some people are above it, so just like it's rare to see someone with hair so long it drags several inches behind them on the floor, it is rare to see someone with hair permanently above their shoulders but it can happen.

Cat Lady, I'm sure your mom has beautiful hair, regardless of it's length.

[hmmm]

Cat Lady - I think they were referring to the girl I mentioned in my post, rather than your mother. It's very interesting though, thanks for posting.

Thank you all, I can't think of another place I could have gotten information like this from. :flowers:

[Babyfine]

Cat lady- I also believe that your mom could have a short terminal length due the story I heard in my youth(in my above post) about my great grandma never being able to get hair below her shoulders. I think it is possible. I've heard of it elsewhere, too.
She was born in the 1870's so she would have been in her 40's when women started routinely cutting their hair around 1920. That means she would have had plenty of years without cutting her hair, to see how long it could get. She would have been probably wearing updo's, ect. and chemical services were pretty much non-existent back then, and women didn't wear their hair down much- so not much abuse I would think. I'd like to see a picture of her next time I visit my Dad.

[Topaz]

I agree that terminal length can be extremely short or extremely long, with every other length in between. Genetics can have just as big an effect as how we care for it, perhaps even bigger.

But did we ever establish an 'average' terminal length? One person said 36 inches for the actual length of the individual hair shaft. Does that sound about right?

[halo_tightens]

My Grandma has very short hair now that she's in her 80's and doesn't want to be bothered with hair, but she has always said that when she was younger and let it grow, it never would get any longer than just-past-shoulder.

I wasn't around when she was a young'un, so I don't know how she treated her hair as far as brushing, washing, etc., but she has always insisted that her hair simply never would get any longer than that.

If it is a genetic thing in her case, I'm hopeful that I was spared those hair genes, as I've already had hair longer than that in the past, and so has my mother.

Who knows?

[RancheroTheBee]

Could I just hijack with a quick question? What is the average terminal length, does anyone know?

[Anje]

Cat Lady, my mum also claims her hair won't grow much beyond shoulder length. I'm a bit suspicious that this might be an artificial terminal length, since in the days when she had hair that length, she was also known to use a clothes iron to try to straighten it. (It was the 70s, she was a teenager with wavy hair....) But just like some people have seriously long terminal lengths, some people have short ones.

I'm not sure what the average is. I've heard estimates of tailbone to classic, which wouldn't surprise me.

[natorade]

So, can you base your hair growth now in comparison to when you were a kid. When I was a little girl my mom usually kept my hair between waist and butt length. So, would it be safe to say, that my terminal length would not be shoulder length like my Grandma? right?

[Shar2]

So, can you base your hair growth now in comparison to when you were a kid. When I was a little girl my mom usually kept my hair between waist and butt length. So, would it be safe to say, that my terminal length would not be shoulder length like my Grandma? right?

But remember, you were much shorter as a little kid. The amount of hair (in inches) it takes to be waist length when you're 3 or 4 feet tall is different than the amount it takes when your 5-6 feet tall.

That's not to say you can't get to those lengths again, just that you shouldn't base it on your childhood length.

[Amara]

But did we ever establish an 'average' terminal length? One person said 36 inches for the actual length of the individual hair shaft. Does that sound about right?


Could I just hijack with a quick question? What is the average terminal length, does anyone know?


I'm not sure what the average is. I've heard estimates of tailbone to classic, which wouldn't surprise me.

36" might be the mean, if we look at average growing rate and the range of years we know hair follicles are active for, but I'm not sure if it's the average.

[Cat Lady]

So, can you base your hair growth now in comparison to when you were a kid. When I was a little girl my mom usually kept my hair between waist and butt length. So, would it be safe to say, that my terminal length would not be shoulder length like my Grandma? right?

I've already been able to grow my hair well past shoulder length in the past, and I have short hair genes in my past, so I am very hopeful that you will be able to as well Natorade :) fingers crossed for you.

:grouphug: for everyone.

[Buddaphlyy]

But remember, you were much shorter as a little kid. The amount of hair (in inches) it takes to be waist length when you're 3 or 4 feet tall is different than the amount it takes when your 5-6 feet tall.

That's not to say you can't get to those lengths again, just that you shouldn't base it on your childhood length.

This is how I know one of my friends hair is/has grown to terminal length. When I first met her 12 years ago, she had very lovely tailbone length hair on her 4'9" frame. Now, she is about 5'3" and her hair can't seem to grow past MBL/WSL (on her they are practically the same). Before coming to hair boards, I thought she must be doing something because her hair couldn't get back to TBL. But now that I understand how terminal length works, it totally makes sense. Her hair doesn't know where TBL or MBL are on her body, but it does know that it supposed to grow how ever many inches before it stops. So TBL on her at 4'9" is the same length as MBL on her at 5'3", it just looks different.

[natorade]

I've already been able to grow my hair well past shoulder length in the past, and I have short hair genes in my past, so I am very hopeful that you will be able to as well Natorade :) fingers crossed for you.

:grouphug: for everyone.
I have grown past shoulder length but now that I think about it, it seems like my hair never would grow a little past apl. Maybe it's beacuse I kept messing with it.:rolleyes:

[ericthegreat]

I have grown past shoulder length but now that I think about it, it seems like my hair never would grow a little past apl. Maybe it's beacuse I kept messing with it.:rolleyes:

Natorade don't be too hard on yourself. From the photo in your album when you had longer hair, I am definitely sure that you can grow way past APL.

[RancheroTheBee]

I have grown past shoulder length but now that I think about it, it seems like my hair never would grow a little past apl. Maybe it's beacuse I kept messing with it.:rolleyes:

But you have us. We help. :) Plus, you've got a fresh start going with your cut now, so who knows how far you can grow?

[Liss]

Even though this thread is a little old now, I thought I would join in.

It is possible to be terminal at shoulder and even shorter. My mother never grew out her baby hairs, so it's all whispy around ear length. She says it would be a dream to have shoulder length hair!

She slicks it back sometimes to make it look like it fits into a ponytail and uses clipon poytail extentions. The look of adoration on her face when she is swinging the hair around makes me happy for her and so pleased that I can grow mine long.