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juliaxena
October 19th, 2009, 01:37 PM
I'm confused about what conditioner should do. My favorite one really moisturises my hair, makes it very soft. But it costs a fortune. My next best however...has some protein in it and I can tell. My hair doesn't feel straw like with it, but it doesn't make it feel as soft. It does feel stronger. My hair is protein sensitive, but would this small concentration of it damage my hair? How is hair supposed to feel after a wash?

Pachamama
October 19th, 2009, 03:29 PM
Personnally, I don't use any conditioner. Most of them have silicone that moisturise first, and then in long term, dries out my hair.
Only organic shampoo and coconut oil once in a while.

halo_tightens
October 19th, 2009, 03:42 PM
Most of them have silicone that moisturise first, and then in long term, dries out my hair.

Hang on... There are LOTS of conditioners out there with no 'cones. I personally use those these days, but there are also lots of people whose hair does great with cones. Everybody's different.

The cones seal the hair shaft to lock in moisture, rather than being moisturizing in and of themselves. Some people do great with this, while others find that they're actually sealing moisture out.

SHELIAANN1969
October 19th, 2009, 03:48 PM
I use conditioner to ease my tangles and for moisture. I have some coney and some non coney, when I use the cone one, my hair stays wet for almost a whole day, when I use the cone free, it usually dries before morning. (I shower at night 7/8pm and awake at 715/745)

If I didn't use conditioner, my hair would be a perpetual rats nest, as is is now, it's just a little mouse house, lol. :cheese:

I don't care for the protein ones so much, they seem to defeat my purpose, but I have a boat load of conditioner that I got and I am working my way through it.

It's all about the experiment, you'll know when it's right! :D

To answer your damage question, I can't imagine a small amount of protein damaging your hair, and as to how it should feel after a wash, I guess that's relative as to how YOU want it to feel.

cobblersmaid
October 19th, 2009, 03:51 PM
I personally need one that provides a lot of slip, and moisture. My hair is very tangly.

If you are using cones, maybe try not using them. I go back and forth. Cones are great for slip, but they build up on me quickly.

RancheroTheBee
October 19th, 2009, 03:58 PM
Conditioner is a Godsend for me. Without it, I'm pretty sure my hair would be breaking up to my chin. I use a non-'cone conditioner most of the time, leaving it to soak in for a while.

Suave is pretty cheap, and it's 'cone-free.

It doesn't sound like you have a protein sensitivity, though. Otherwise, it would be brittle (I think) and just generally not right.

juliaxena
October 19th, 2009, 04:25 PM
I do have protein sensitivity. When I use strong protein stuff it's horrible. That's why I'm scared to use mild protein stuff. My hair feels medium with it instead of my natural fine feeling. I don't know if that's good or not. Hair also seems a bit stiffer.

Carolyn
October 19th, 2009, 04:37 PM
You can use your mild protein conditioner now and then. Use your moisturizing conditioners the rest of the time. I need conditioner for slip and moisture. I wouldn't be able to comb out my hair if I used just shampoo. It would also be a dry, brittle mess without it.

little_acorn
October 19th, 2009, 04:58 PM
I use both cone and non-cone conditioners (no real rational about this, I'm just using some up :D) - if I don't use any conditioner my hair gets very tangled :(

BeatlesFanGirl
October 19th, 2009, 05:27 PM
Can you plz tell me why proteins are bad?

spidermom
October 19th, 2009, 05:30 PM
One thing I've noticed recently is that conditioner helps the water to slide right off the hair. I tried a wash recently without conditioner, and it was amazing how much heavier my hair felt.

Curlsgirl
October 19th, 2009, 08:29 PM
Moisturize and detangle. Like others have said, I could never get a comb through my tangly hair without it! I use cone and no-cone too, rotate them as I sense what my hair needs for that particular wash.

Madonna-Fan
October 19th, 2009, 08:55 PM
I use cone-free and (almost only) organic conditioners.
I use them to make my hair (I do it only in the lengths not on the roots) softer and better to comb.
If I do CO (only very rarely) IŽll do the conditioner about 10 minutes on the roots and than after washing out in the lengths.
Than the few tensides wash the sebum out of it even softer than diluted shampoo.
But the reason why I do this that rare is because too often, it would fat my roots too much.
Perhaps I can use it more often, if I have retarded my rythm of washing to 1 week to 10 days.

So Conditioner can make soft and (gently) clean.

JCFantasy23
October 19th, 2009, 11:29 PM
I use conditioner to ease my tangles and for moisture.

This. I never realized the importance of conditioner until a few months ago. Since using it so much I never get tangles, or at least very rarely. Before I kept getting them and having major breakage from it, hence the main reason my hair is so thin now in some spots and will take so much time to repair.

shadowclaw
October 19th, 2009, 11:47 PM
In my opinion, the purpose of conditioner is to detangle, moisturize, and keep hair soft and smooth. After I rinse, my hair should be super-easy to comb through. After my hair dries, it should be soft, sleek, and straight. When my hair feels dry or crunchy or gets fluffy, that means I need to moisturize.

Also, my hair doesn't seem to mind protein. If it did, then my hair would probably feel like straw. I don't think protein is actually damaging unless your hair hates it.

juliaxena
October 20th, 2009, 01:18 AM
Is it supposed to leave your hair ridiculously soft and smooth? I mean, not mushy, but baby soft? Or is it advisable that it leaves it somewhat strenghtened? I'm scared what constant use of mild protein would do to my hair.

Carolyn
October 20th, 2009, 05:32 AM
Is it supposed to leave your hair ridiculously soft and smooth? I mean, not mushy, but baby soft? Or is it advisable that it leaves it somewhat strenghtened? I'm scared what constant use of mild protein would do to my hair.Could you tell us what you mean by "constant use"? Do you mean daily/every wash? Or once every few washes?

juliaxena
October 20th, 2009, 05:41 AM
Yes, I mean every wash, because I need a replacement for my favorite conditioner, because it is too expencive. I have tryed many conditioners, but they just don't work, they are either too proteiny or they contain oils...my hair hates protein and oils. This one I am asking about is the only one beside my fav one that doesn't turn my head into a frizzy, dry mess. I even tryed CO with all of them that I've tryed and I'm sick of trying to find one that will work. It takes too much money and time. really, with hair as picky as mine it is hard to figure out what it wants.

Arctic
October 20th, 2009, 10:12 AM
Juliaxana, I stongly advice you to stop using the protein products if you think/know your hair is sensitive to protein! I say this, because I have also protein sensitive hair, and I started to suspect that in December 08 because my hair was become rougher feeling all the time inspite of taking excellent care of it, was tangly and sticky and just felt wrong and bad.

But started to act a bit slowly about it. In February 09 I noticed I had LOTS of breakage, I mean tons and tons of broken hairs, like I would have "natural layers". I paniced and made lot of changes into my routines, also started to use no-protein conditioners. I kept using my favourite shampoo that has proteins, thinking shampoo wouldn't matter etc. My hair did get better but not complitely. I was still unsure at this point, what I was doing wrong.

I had read a lot about protein/moisture balance of hair (great article here (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/278612/the_fine_art_of_protein_and_moisture.html?cat=69)) and I was even giving advice and that link to members here, but it was a bit difficult for me to complitely incorporate the information into my own hair and hair care. I guess I was a bit in denial also.

In the beginning of summer 09 I finally had enough courage to experiment with no-protein shampoo and not use my former holy grail shampoo (I have sensitive scalp and the protein shampoo had saved me from perpetual dandruff).
My hair got again better and even my scalp survuved the shampoo change. At that point I was starting to be sure my hair really was protein sensitive.

...But I still didn't realise just HOW much sensitive it was and how little protein it takes to tip of the balance on me and just how long it actually takes to correct the balance back to normal. I kept using during summer occasionally some old conditioners that had protein, like few times a month, also washed couple of times with that old shampoo and used couple of times some leave-ins that have protein.

And while my hair was recovering, the stiff hard ends I had suffered from slowly "melted" and became normal, my hair kept breaking and still felt a bit weird. At this point I was a bit silly, I thought I was shedding, I was in denial it was breakage.

I also had some other hair problems and it all added up and I ended up cutting my hair to the shoulder length because it was getting so thin. It was only after my cut I truly opened my eyes and saw how badly my hair must hate protein in any quantity and frequency. Once the protein had damaged my hair it just kept breaking off.

So please learn from my mistakes and avoid protein products no matter how little it has protein if you have any feeling it might not work for your hair.

ETA: Take a look at my hair blog ifyou are interested to know more about what I've done etc :)

Arctic
October 20th, 2009, 10:19 AM
Oh, and to your original question:

My ideal conditioner moisturizes my hair and makes it soft and smooth without making it feel coated, sticky and tangly. It doesn't build-up easily because I have very build-up prone hair. It doesn't have proteins or oils, smells good or is fragrance-free. I don't need more shinyness or more combabillity really, in fact most conditioner make my hair harder to comb by forming sticky films. The consistency is important, I don't like them too runny.

junkyschristmas
October 20th, 2009, 10:24 AM
Hi! I'm curious – can you please tell us what brands of conditioners are you referring to (your current favourite and your 'next best' with protein)? That might help in our making recommendations for less-expensive substitutes....

Arctic
October 20th, 2009, 10:28 AM
Can you plz tell me why proteins are bad?

In hair chemistry, there is a thing called hair's protein-moisture balance. They are both very important to hair, but in right ratio to each other. Some hair is very sensitive to protein, it's quite individual thing. Protein is not bad per se, but it is more easy to get protein overload than moisture overload, and protein overload is harder to over-come also.

Here is the best article (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/278612/the_fine_art_of_protein_and_moisture.html?cat=69) I have seen about the subject, also there is a good article in LHC's article section written by Kirin.

:flowers:

ravenreed
October 20th, 2009, 10:32 AM
I need a conditioner without cones and without protein. Oh, and it must provide good slip, or I cannot comb my hair. Danged hard to find for a decent price. I use the fake Biolage Matrix stuff at Sally's. I think it is about $6.00 a bottle. I don't have to use much, since I only use that on my ends and as a leave in, very watered down. So even though it is not the cheapest stuff out there, it works out.

lillithnight
October 20th, 2009, 10:56 AM
I need a conditioner without cones and without protein. Oh, and it must provide good slip, or I cannot comb my hair. Danged hard to find for a decent price. I use the fake Biolage Matrix stuff at Sally's. I think it is about $6.00 a bottle. I don't have to use much, since I only use that on my ends and as a leave in, very watered down. So even though it is not the cheapest stuff out there, it works out.

if your sally's has salon care brand, you know those ones in the gallon jugs maby you should try one or two. My hair like the basalm, or honey and alond co.

Fractalsofhair
October 20th, 2009, 11:15 AM
Well, brands like vo5 and suave are protein free for the most part, and cone free. You may have to use more conditioner to get enough slip though. But, a $1 bottle of conditioner is cheap. Very cheap.

I'd suggest Alaffia for a very very moisturizing conditioner(A little pricey though for my cheap student budget. $10 or so for 8 oz. Not too bad compared to salon brands, and a bottle lasted me about 2 weeks when my hair was VERY damaged. Now, it lasts me about 2-3 months min.), but it does have protein in it. Remember, as you have somewhat straight hair, you can always oil it and brush the oil to hide the frizz. If I didn't do that, my hair would stick straight up in many parts... You could also have cone build up requiring you to need a VERY moisturizing conditioner.

HairColoredHair
October 20th, 2009, 11:32 AM
if your sally's has salon care brand, you know those ones in the gallon jugs maby you should try one or two. My hair like the basalm, or honey and alond co.

As far as I'm aware, both of those have protein (in fact my hair, which is protein sensitive, pretty much hates the almond one, though my NOSE loves it. :wail: )

I'm pretty much in the same boat, though, my hair would prefer cone-free, protein-free, high moisture/slip (and I'm cheap *cough* I mean thrifty).... someday I'll find something. :lol: I get away with V05, but a lot of them have protein in them... it's a few that don't, I think.

feb26
October 20th, 2009, 01:39 PM
I use Lanza Leave In conditioner (have put link below):it has no proteins or cones. Cost $14 but it lasts FOREVER because I'm using dime-sized amount.
If I want a really soft, slippy feeling I use a hair mask by Pantene Pro-V - http://www.pantene.com/en-US/product/provrestore_timerenewreplenishmask.jspx

this brand is cheap $10 or so, but it works beautifully! put it in and shave your legs. hope this info helps


http://www.lanza.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=31&catid=9&loc=show&headTitle= - Leave-In Conditioner

juliaxena
October 20th, 2009, 11:40 PM
We don't have Suave or VO5 here. Nor do we have Sally's. Perhaps Pantene would work, my hair likes cones but I don't remember it being very slippery or moisturisizing. I use either series expert absolut repair (that's L'oreal professionel) or tigi' brunette goddess (this is my second favorite). It seems that my second fav has enough cones to prevent breakage its protein gives me. Thank god for cones...but long term effects-who knows what they will be.

juliaxena
October 27th, 2009, 02:11 AM
I have a small update here. I tryed both conditioners at once. One on one side of my head, one on the other. AND I have discovered my second favorite actually works better. The hair does feel stronger but also more moisturised. I guess I just don't like the smell as much which I will try to fix by addding some of my third favorite, that does nothing for my hair but smells devine.

Kris Dove
October 27th, 2009, 02:43 AM
I use Lanza Leave In conditioner (have put link below):it has no proteins or cones. Cost $14 but it lasts FOREVER because I'm using dime-sized amount.



http://www.lanza.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=31&catid=9&loc=show&headTitle= - Leave-In ConditionerDoesn't having keratin amino acids mean it HAS got protein?:confused: