yicky hair

[myotislucifugus]

So I've read all the articles on hair diagnoses, and I'm still having issues...

I use shampoo bars, and love them. I find they work great for balancing my oily hair.

Problem is, for the past two weeks, my scalp has been fine, and my ends have been super dry and crunchy. In between, on the length it feels gooey... and like wet paper.

I've clarified and clarified... and nothing seems to help. It feels like the top and bottom are getting dryer from rough treatment, while the length gets dirtier and gooier.

And I. Don't. Like. It.

Any ideas? I oil, and wash every 3-4 days. I've tried SMTs and protein treatments, and nothing seems to help.

Any ideas?

[BlndeInDisguise]

First of all, do you use a vinegar rinse afterwards? What about conditioner? Some people say they don't need conditioner with shampoo bars, but I found that I definitely need it.

[Luckysock]

Have you clarified?

[GlassEyes]

Try conditioner first. If that doesn't work, what exactly did you USE to clarify? Shampoo, baking soda? If you tried using a different shampoo bar, that's not going to work.

You might want to try just washign your scalp with the bars, and then using conditioner on the length. Also, are you using an ACV or citric acid rinse?

[myotislucifugus]

Luckysock- Yup. I've clarified.

I occasionally use a nettle vinegar rinse, not regularly. I don't usually use conditioner, because I've never really needed it.

To clarify, I used a strong baking soda rinse n' rub followed by a different shampoo bar.

[Anje]

"Wet paper" hair is the classic description of hair that needs lots of protein, stat!

What are you using for protein treatments? I've heard good things about the Joico K-Pak. In any case, look for "reconstructer" treatments.

[myotislucifugus]

"Wet paper" hair is the classic description of hair that needs lots of protein, stat!

What are you using for protein treatments? I've heard good things about the Joico K-Pak. In any case, look for "reconstructer" treatments.


Ah! I love you! I knew if was classic for something! I'd hoped if I'd used the term someone would remember. Searching for "wet hair" in the mane forum does not help

[myotislucifugus]

I should also mention I recently scrubbed all the buildup off my comb as well.

[heidi w.]

So I've read all the articles on hair diagnoses, and I'm still having issues...

I use shampoo bars, and love them. I find they work great for balancing my oily hair.

Problem is, for the past two weeks, my scalp has been fine, and my ends have been super dry and crunchy. In between, on the length it feels gooey... and like wet paper.

I've clarified and clarified... and nothing seems to help. It feels like the top and bottom are getting dryer from rough treatment, while the length gets dirtier and gooier.

And I. Don't. Like. It.

Any ideas? I oil, and wash every 3-4 days. I've tried SMTs and protein treatments, and nothing seems to help.

Any ideas?

When I recommend clarifying, I am typically very clear and recommend, strongly, to condition the hair length as part of the clarifying process.

Did you condition?

If you did not, then what you describe is the outcome. Hair is drier, a kind of brittly-ness and odd texture. If you did not condition as part of your clarifying process, whether you used a home recipe (such as baking soda and water or baking soda and shampoo of your choice or a store purchased clarifying product), ETA: then this means the clarifying worked, you just failed to replace what's been removed. That's all. This means, then that the clarifying was a success. Most people don't realize this aspect because they DO condition as part of the clarifying process.

If you are using a low temp of water, and poo bars and oiling, yet didn't condition, then the hair is getting wet with oil on the exterior and you may have a problem with uptake of conditioner if you don't remove the oil in warm enough water. Also this kind of oil will simply allow the hair to swell more with the water and then once dry, be this weird kind of gummy wetness. END ETA

Have you oiled the length again after the clarifying? You are not clear here about what you did or did not do.

When the hair is stripped of all buildup, yet not conditioned, this means that hair length doesn't have replaced what's been removed. It's imperative to replace what is removed! (and yes, begin again to create buildup if you must think of it like that). This means the hair may be kind of fly-away, a kind of odd texture, maybe a bit overly delicate or brittle-y but not breaking off.

IF hair is breaking off then there's a good chance that something you used has protein in it. IF any breaking is sudden and a lot of it (as compared to a situation such as hyperthyroid where it's chronic, ongoing breaking off as opposed to shedding in clumps (hypothyroidism), there's a good chance that something you're doing is either end of the spectrum, overloading or too little protein. More often the former, too much protein. Most shampoo/conditioner products have protein in it to some extent, and when used as companions as intended by the manufacturer, you will have balance. But too often folks add something in their routine they aren't aware has protein, and hair can suddenly up and start breaking off, in droves, usually, is the indicator: sudden and a lot of it is the clue to protein. ALSO for many, too much protein puts the hair in a state.

Clarifying can leave a film if not well rinsed out. One precaution I tell folks who shampoo, condition only or any form of hygienic cleaning, too often people are not using hot enough water, especially for conditioner to soak in. When this is the case, the product won't smear as well, dirt/sebum isn't removed as well, and product isn't rinsed out as well which can all contribute to that gummy feeling you are describing. Also, many don't leave conditioner on long enough (around 3-5 minutes) to really bond with the cortex.

Did you apply anything that might have bonded to the cortex? If it's at the cortext level, then you need to chelate, but always do a shampoo first, a clarify then, and finally step up to chelate as a last-ditch effort. Things that bond to the cortex of hair require chelating to remove. Clarifying only removes what's on top of the cuticle layer, the exterior of the hair strand.

I realize I'm probably not helping. My problem is that I don't understand clearly what specifically you've done or not done to set this issue up somehow.

Let's begin with did you condition as part of your clarifying process, again, whether purchased product or home recipe. (The reason I don't like Baking Soda and water is that most shampoo (I mix mine with shampoo and baking soda) have things in the poo that help 'humidify' the hair.

heidi w.

[heidi w.]

Luckysock- Yup. I've clarified.

I occasionally use a nettle vinegar rinse, not regularly. I don't usually use conditioner, because I've never really needed it.

To clarify, I used a strong baking soda rinse n' rub followed by a different shampoo bar.

Yeah, no conditioning as part of your clarifying--just as I anticipated. You stripped everything off but didn't replace it. The follow up in the clarify hair wash with the shampoo bar probably laid down some oil too (many poo bars have an oil in it or a fat in it)-- and now with the water you have a kind of gummy wetness. Typical response with a fatty or oily application that's now on top of the hair strands. (ETA: IN fact, there's a chance that after a fresh hair wash in this situation/conditions, that the hair actually takes longer to dry and may not quite really dry. That's the feeling that could be occurring as well.)

You might want to re-think conditioner. You could consider a lighter conditioner, for example. A good reason the poo bars doesn't require conditioner is because the bars may have just enough oil and fat in them to benefit your hair type from overly tangling. BUt for some reason, you've got a strange layer going -- I'm guessing the reason is you did the poo bar after clarifying with baking soda. I like the results I get from baking soda, but I don't follow this up with directly applying a fat and/or oil to the cuticle. I condition which is a way of allowing hydrogen atoms, if memory serves, to bond with the cortex. This fat/oil from the poo bar isn't bonding at the cortext level. Conditioner (ETA: changed the word to be more clear) may end up having just enough protein in it anyway. There's a good chance of that! Uh, one more possibility, if you poo bar and decide to go for a conditioner intermittently, if you poo before conditioning, you may have an issue with that conditioner not penetrating because these oils and fats don't penetrate the hair strand: they form a protective layer, and possibly barrier, for penetration to the cortex level and instead rather 'sets up' on the surface of the cuticle.

You might actually consider clarifying again (because you essentially now have buildup), with baking soda as you did, and instead, use a conditioner on the length only (you won't need it on your scalp hair and scalp skin). Rinse very well at each phase of the process. Use fairly warm to what you may even consider hot water for good rinses and good penetration of conditioner. Your silk will return.

ETA: I suggest clarifying one more time, follow with a conditioner using fairly warm-to-hot water, leaving on for a bit, and then rinsing very well. If that doesn't work, THEN go with the protein suggestion. END ETA

See quote below demonstrating clearly the use of oils and fats in the creation of the bars. Regardless of proportions, it's in the bar, and this is laying down on your hair which accounts for the gummy texture after it's been wetted.

FYI - shampoo bar info from Chagrin Valley

http://www.chagrinvalleysoapandcraft.com/soapvsshamp.htm
Also like our soaps, each of our shampoo bar selections contains different blend of natural plant oils, essential oils, and herb infused oils. No two recipes are the same.

The main differences between the soaps and shampoos are the amount of castor oil, the proportions of the base oils, the amount of extra oils or superfatting, and the way in which I use infused oils and essential oils.
heidi w.

[heidi w.]

I should also mention I recently scrubbed all the buildup off my comb as well.

Good. I heartily recommend cleaning the detangling tools every time one washes their hair so as to avoid re-introducing old bacteria, old sebum, old dirt back into clean hair.

heidi w.

[heidi w.]

I read the subject line as VICKY hair. Uhhhh......

I had to read what Vicky hair meant!:rolleyes:

heidi w.

[myotislucifugus]

Vicky hair... hmmm... I'm going to try clarifying again, and then use conditioner.

Something I tried but didn't mention earlier was that I tried using only conditioner to try and wash, and things seemed to improve a bit, but my hair got gross so fast after that I had to wash. I'll try again.

[myotislucifugus]

Ok. So, I clarified with baking soda rinse on length because thats where the buildup was, and then rubbed in Aussie's 3MM.

Rinsed that for about 2 minutes under really warm water, and then washed with a CV honey beer and egg bar.

Unscientific, but I have a wedding to go to today.

Hair feels much better for the most part, still some odd chunks. Scalp is fine. I'll pick up a protein pack tomorrow.

I think its a combo of needing protein and needing to clarify the fatty buildup off of the hair length. Woohoo.