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SandyStar
September 24th, 2009, 09:29 PM
Here is the Abstract (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17960402?ordinalpos=7&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum) It was a double-blind study.


The appearance of hair plays an important role in people's overall physical appearance and self-perception. Silicon (Si) has been suggested to have a role in the formation of connective tissue and is present at 1-10 ppm in hair. Choline-stabilized orthosilicic acid ("ch-OSA") is a bioavailable form of silicon which was found to improve skin microrelief and skin mechanical properties in women with photoaged skin. The effect of ch-OSA on hair was investigated in a randomized, double blind, placebo-controlled study. Forty-eight women with fine hair were given 10 mg Si/day in the form of ch-OSA beadlets (n = 24) or a placebo (n = 24), orally for 9 months. Hair morphology and tensile properties were evaluated before and after treatment. Urinary silicon concentration increased significantly in the ch-OSA supplemented group but not in the placebo group. The elastic gradient decreased in both groups but the change was significantly smaller in the ch-OSA group (-4.52%) compared to placebo group (-11.9%). Break load changed significantly in the placebo group (-10.8%) but not in the ch-OSA supplemented group (-2.20%). Break stress and elastic modulus decreased in both groups but the change was smaller in the ch-OSA group. The cross sectional area increased significantly after 9 months compared to baseline in ch-OSA supplemented subjects but not in the placebo group. The change in urinary silicon excretion was significantly correlated with the change in cross sectional area. Oral intake of ch-OSA had a positive effect on tensile strength including elasticity and break load and resulted in thicker hair.

Does anyone know where I could get this bioavailable form of silicon?

ambychelle
September 24th, 2009, 09:36 PM
Here is the Abstract (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17960402?ordinalpos=7&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum) It was a double-blind study.



Does anyone know where I could get this bioavailable form of silicon?

I have no idea but I'm thinking of ordering this http://www.amazon.com/Natrol-Biosil-Liquid-30/dp/B0013JLW18/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1253846089&sr=8-5

SandyStar
September 24th, 2009, 09:43 PM
Thanks for the link. Do you know if the silicon is in the form of choline-stabilized orthosilicic acid ("ch-OSA")?

While word of mouth is a good way to find out about what works and what doesn't some of the time, I really put a lot of value into double-blind studies with placebos.

This sounds promising. I'm going to look for this form of silicon.

kmangus
September 24th, 2009, 09:45 PM
Isnt that the same thing as taking a biotin or silica vitamin? They seem to be essentially the same thing....

SandyStar
September 24th, 2009, 09:48 PM
I don't know if they are the same thing. I'd like to see studies comparing them though. Unless they are chemically the same, they may not act the same biologically.

I'll have to do more research.

SandyStar
September 24th, 2009, 09:57 PM
I am taking medicinal chemistry this semester and we learned that the major problem for drug companies is bioavailability of drugs. If the drug is not bioavailable, then it doesn't matter how great the drug works, it won't do much if it can't get to it's target.

kmangus
September 24th, 2009, 10:06 PM
I see. This is a very intriguing topic! (nerdy) :)

SandyStar
September 24th, 2009, 10:12 PM
I learned lots of nerdy things from the LHC. Everything from anti-fungals to physics. LOL I think a lot of us are amateur chemists. lol

Pierre
September 24th, 2009, 10:16 PM
BioSil is indeed choline-stabilized orthosilicic acid. Biotin is something entirely different. It's a vitamin also called B7.

kmangus
September 24th, 2009, 10:21 PM
It appears that Pierre knows more than the average LHC'er :) I was wondering the difference between the two, so Biotin is a vitamin and BioSil is like a liquid?

SandyStar
September 24th, 2009, 10:23 PM
Thanks for that info Pierre! I'm going to look into buying some Biosil after some more research. I want to make sure it is safe to take long term.

Does anyone here take it?

curlytiff27
September 24th, 2009, 11:06 PM
Thanks for that info Pierre! I'm going to look into buying some Biosil after some more research. I want to make sure it is safe to take long term.

Does anyone here take it?

For thoses that do take it, does it soften the new growth? MSM had this effect on me and I now have limp curls.

SandyStar
September 24th, 2009, 11:13 PM
The abstract said it increased the strength of the hair. I don't know if they noticed anything with curls.

I have access to a university library so I can look up the journal article. If I find time, I may read the whole article.

I wonder if there is a way to measure curls? It'd be interesting to see the difference with and without the Biosil.

I think qualitative results are useful, but I would really love to get some quantitative, measurable results.

SandyStar
September 24th, 2009, 11:14 PM
What is MSM by the way?

Flynn
September 24th, 2009, 11:42 PM
It appears that Pierre knows more than the average LHC'er :) I was wondering the difference between the two, so Biotin is a vitamin and BioSil is like a liquid?

They are just two completely different chemicals, like comparing Vitamin A and Vitamin E.

Flynn
September 24th, 2009, 11:43 PM
What is MSM by the way?

Dimethylsulfone.

SandyStar
September 25th, 2009, 12:10 AM
That is strange, I tried searching Pubmed for MSM and hair, but couldn't find anything, only stuff on arthritis.

I searched for "thicker hair" and didn't come up with MSM, just that one study on the bioavailable form of silicon.

grldollies
September 25th, 2009, 12:11 AM
Here is the Abstract (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17960402?ordinalpos=7&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum) It was a double-blind study.



Does anyone know where I could get this bioavailable form of silicon?
I wonder if their is a difference between that and taking silica? I know that liquid vitamins are suppose to be absorbed by the body better. I take Silica Plus made by Kal. It has in each tab has 600mg Horsetail extract & 20mg of Colloidal Hydrophilic Silica Gel.
I found a site that had a little more info. http://www.raysahelian.com/silicon.html They said "Los Angeles-based Jarrow Formulas is adding BioSil, a form of silicon to its product line. In addition to its 30 ml liquid and 30-capsule size". Don't know a thing about them. Also this site was informative, http://www.smartskincare.com/nutrition/silicon.html.
I know at Chamberlains where I go here in Fl they have a good selection of skin & hair supplements. I've been taking a women's hair formula Shen Min that I bought there - I think it helps. They have a men's formula too.
Their info:
Shen Min by Biotech is a leader in hair vitamins for faster hair growth and vitamins for hair loss. Based on the herb He Shou Wu, these hair vitamins can produce faster hair growth. It is the lastest breakthrough in achieving faster growing hair and stopping hair loss, while encouraging hair regrowth. Shen Min combines a combination of "standardized" herbs such as He Shou Wu & Horse Chestnut Extract with vital co-factor nutrients such as Silica and Biotin. Shen Min integrates a revolutionary combination of Chinese medicine with modern science to create the latest breakthrough in achieving full, lustrous, healthy hair. By combining a powerful mixture of standardized herbs such as He Shou Wu & Horse Chestnut Extract with vital co-factor nutrients such as Silica, Biotin, Saw Palmetto & other nutriceuticals, Shen Min helps to maximize your hair's potential naturally! Whether you are male or female, Shen Min can help your hair return to it's youthful state of vibrance and fullness. As a dietary supplement, take one tablet two times daily, or as desired. For best results, should be taken for a minimum of 3-4 months.

Flynn
September 25th, 2009, 12:15 AM
I wonder if their is a difference between that and taking silica? I know that liquid vitamins are suppose to be absorbed by the body better. I take Silica Plus made by Kal. It has in each tab has 600mg Horsetail extract & 20mg of Colloidal Hydrophilic Silica Gel.


Silica as silica (i.e. silica gel, colloidal silica) passes straight though your system. It does nothing. It is a scam, do not buy tablets that are just silica. It needs to have something nice and organic (in the chemical sense) hanging on to it to have any hope of doing anything.

SandyStar
September 25th, 2009, 12:23 AM
Yeah, I read that just silica doesn't get absorbed by the body. I am learning more about Ch-OSA. It also is showing promise for osteoporosis. I think I am going to buy some. I am at risk for osteoporosis later in life and I am lactose intolerant and don't eat much calcium.

Abstract (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18547426?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum)

BACKGROUND: Mounting evidence supports a physiological role for silicon (Si) as orthosilicic acid (OSA, Si(OH)4) in bone formation. The effect of oral choline-stabilized orthosilicic acid (ch-OSA) on markers of bone turnover and bone mineral density (BMD) was investigated in a double-blind placebo-controlled trial. METHODS: Over 12-months, 136 women out of 184 randomized (T-score spine < -1.5) completed the study and received, daily, 1000 mg Ca and 20 microg cholecalciferol (Vit D3) and three different ch-OSA doses (3, 6 and 12 mg Si) or placebo. Bone formation markers in serum and urinary resorption markers were measured at baseline, and after 6 and 12 months. Femoral and lumbar BMD were measured at baseline and after 12 months by DEXA. RESULTS: Overall, there was a trend for ch-OSA to confer some additional benefit to Ca and Vit D3 treatment, especially for markers of bone formation, but only the marker for type I collagen formation (PINP) was significant at 12 months for the 6 and 12 mg Si dose (vs. placebo) without a clear dose response effect. A trend for a dose-corresponding increase was observed in the bone resorption marker, collagen type I C-terminal telopeptide (CTX-I).Lumbar spine BMD did not change significantly. Post-hoc subgroup analysis (baseline T-score femur < -1) however was significant for the 6 mg dose at the femoral neck (T-test). There were no ch-OSA related adverse events observed and biochemical safety parameters remained within the normal range. CONCLUSION: Combined therapy of ch-OSA and Ca/Vit D3 had a potential beneficial effect on bone collagen compared to Ca/Vit D3 alone which suggests that this treatment is of potential use in osteoporosis. NTR 1029.

grldollies
September 25th, 2009, 01:10 AM
Silica as silica (i.e. silica gel, colloidal silica) passes straight though your system. It does nothing. It is a scam, do not buy tablets that are just silica. It needs to have something nice and organic (in the chemical sense) hanging on to it to have any hope of doing anything.
Hmm didn't know that. Well the silica plus was just one of many I take. I guess when I run out I could drop that from my list. I had some bone joint issues, mostly due to some medicines Ive had to take. I started taking a few supplements about a year ago targeting hair, skin & Bone ect. now my knee & back don't hurt any more. I just did my 100th workout at Curves since I started in Jan. When I started @ Curves my right knee hurt every time now it dosen't plus I've lost 45lbs! Yea! I also had a receding hairline which has now grown back.
I also take Neo-Cell Super Collagen+C supplement, plus I take New Chapter Bone Strength Take Care which is made from Algas Calcareas - D3, k1&2 and from Algae = Algaecal powder, calcium, silica, magnesium, strontium, vanadium.
I again also take Citracal plus bone density builder "Citracel plus Bone Density BuilderCalcium + Vitamin D Plus Genistein .... New Citracal plus Bone Density Builder is the only leading calcium supplement to contain Genistein, a natural soybean extract that has been clinically proven to significantly increase bone density by up to 5&#37;* New Citracal Plus Bone Density Builder contains calcium to fight osteoporosis.* used as directed, it contains 1200 mg of calcium, more than the recommended daily value. And it has vitamin D"

My goal has been to take a variety of bone, hair skin supplements besides regular vitamins to improve my odds of something helping me. Thankfully something has worked because I am loads better.

Flynn
September 25th, 2009, 01:42 AM
Hmm didn't know that. Well the silica plus was just one of many I take. I guess when I run out I could drop that from my list. I had some bone joint issues, mostly due to some medicines Ive had to take. I started taking a few supplements about a year ago targeting hair, skin & Bone ect. now my knee & back don't hurt any more. I just did my 100th workout at Curves since I started in Jan. When I started @ Curves my right knee hurt every time now it dosen't plus I've lost 45lbs! Yea! I also had a receding hairline which has now grown back.
I also take Neo-Cell Super Collagen+C supplement, plus I take New Chapter Bone Strength Take Care which is made from Algas Calcareas - D3, k1&2 and from Algae = Algaecal powder, calcium, silica, magnesium, strontium, vanadium.
I again also take Citracal plus bone density builder "Citracel plus Bone Density BuilderCalcium + Vitamin D Plus Genistein .... New Citracal plus Bone Density Builder is the only leading calcium supplement to contain Genistein, a natural soybean extract that has been clinically proven to significantly increase bone density by up to 5%* New Citracal Plus Bone Density Builder contains calcium to fight osteoporosis.* used as directed, it contains 1200 mg of calcium, more than the recommended daily value. And it has vitamin D"

My goal has been to take a variety of bone, hair skin supplements besides regular vitamins to improve my odds of something helping me. Thankfully something has worked because I am loads better.

^__^ Well, something there is clearly doing the trick, and I'm glad to hear it! XD

Nevertheless, I'd cut the colloidal silica supplement. It's simply a waste of money.

Another thing you need to be aware of: GREATER than the recommended daily dose is VERY VERY BAD unless your doctor has put you on it as a short-term precaution. Take care that you are not exceeding it when you are mixing and matching several tablets like that, especially as you already exceed the recommended daily dose for calcium, for instance in one tablet.

It's what Paracelsus said all that time ago: all things are poison, and nothing is without poison. It is only the dose that makes a thing poisonous.

The recommended daily dose is within the ideal dose range for humans. If you exceed it, you get no further benefit, up to a point where you begin to do yourself harm.

SandyStar
September 25th, 2009, 12:35 PM
Funny how you mentioned that it is the dose that makes the poison because my med chem prof said the same thing in his first lecture.

Even water is a poison in a high enough dose.

I bought a bottle of the BioSil drops from Nutrition House today. They were a bit pricey, but I hope to find a cheaper source online. I took my first dose today. I plan on taking it indefinitely. I'll let you know how it goes in my blog.

Flynn
September 25th, 2009, 09:45 PM
Funny how you mentioned that it is the dose that makes the poison because my med chem prof said the same thing in his first lecture.


It's a very famous quote from Paracelsus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracelsus): "Alle Ding sind Gift, und nichts ohne Gift; allein die Dosis macht, da&#223; ein Ding kein Gift ist."

It is something so fundamental and basic that he was able to realise it in the 1500s, and it has survived since then: we've tested it and tested it, and found that it is true. For some reason, however, it is not something commonly known and understood by the general public -- which is a HUGE problem when people are self-medicating so heavily these days with all these vitamin "supplements".

grldollies
September 30th, 2009, 01:00 AM
^__^ Well, something there is clearly doing the trick, and I'm glad to hear it! XD

Nevertheless, I'd cut the colloidal silica supplement. It's simply a waste of money.

Another thing you need to be aware of: GREATER than the recommended daily dose is VERY VERY BAD unless your doctor has put you on it as a short-term precaution. Take care that you are not exceeding it when you are mixing and matching several tablets like that, especially as you already exceed the recommended daily dose for calcium, for instance in one tablet.

It's what Paracelsus said all that time ago: all things are poison, and nothing is without poison. It is only the dose that makes a thing poisonous.

The recommended daily dose is within the ideal dose range for humans. If you exceed it, you get no further benefit, up to a point where you begin to do yourself harm.
Ya too much of a good thing is bad - what I've done is for instance the calcium, one says take two twice a day and the other says take three so i will do half the dosage of each & take a multi B a couple times a week & multi a couple times a week but not on the same day, so I do not get too much. (m-f in the week) I will also skip a week every so often. I do not take any on the weekend unless I feel like I am catching a cold - I will take ester c. Both my daughter & DH has had a cold a couple of months ago & I didn't get it - just started to feel under the weather so I quickly took Ester C, one Multi B and two Echinacea goldenseal blend - plus extra fresh fruit that weekend.
One should be pro-active on nutrition but not get crazy - balance and good sense.
Read labels & if you have too jot down dosages, make a list/chart when to take what, so you don't take too much or take something twice. If I have time I will use a day pill box & pre-plan the week. Then I don't have to try to remember what I took yesterday.

Heidi_234
September 30th, 2009, 02:10 AM
SandyStar, I'm interested to see how it goes for you. :) Good luck!

Canarygirl
September 30th, 2009, 04:23 PM
This is interesting. I wonder if mixing the Biosil with another supplement which contains Horsetail would also push the envelope too close to "poison?" Since supposedly silica is derived from horsetail?

SandyStar
September 30th, 2009, 06:32 PM
The studies I've read mostly used 10 mg of ch-OSA and that is how much I am taking. No adverse effects were reported at this dose.

WritingPrincess
September 30th, 2009, 06:44 PM
All I could think of was "New kind of cones, eh?" :lol: The things you learn at LHC . . .

faeflame
October 2nd, 2009, 05:52 PM
I've been taking Biosil for the last few years and I can't tell if it has helped my hair, but my nails are crazy strong and long now. They are actually longer than when I had sculptured nails in the 80s!! Another bonus of Biosil and MSM is my achy joints are much better now.

Neen
October 16th, 2009, 07:55 PM
Silica as silica (i.e. silica gel, colloidal silica) passes straight though your system. It does nothing. It is a scam, do not buy tablets that are just silica. It needs to have something nice and organic (in the chemical sense) hanging on to it to have any hope of doing anything.

Would a "Silica Compound" of sodium phosphate - dibasic anhydrous and silicon dioxide be absorbed? I think silicon dioxide is just "silica" but is sodium phosphate "something nice and organic" it can hang on to?

Demetrue
October 16th, 2009, 08:35 PM
My dr. recently told me that 400 or 800 mg of calcium is really not enough daily for women and that I should be taking closer to 1200 per day.

Flynn
October 16th, 2009, 11:11 PM
Would a "Silica Compound" of sodium phosphate - dibasic anhydrous and silicon dioxide be absorbed? I think silicon dioxide is just "silica" but is sodium phosphate "something nice and organic" it can hang on to?

Not organic, but if it is actually present as a good complex, it's ionic, and may be more water soluble, which could be why they have done this. Making it more water soluble, though, I don't think is meant to help at all with regards to silica. It won't hurt you, but it's probably wasting your money. I'd try for one of the ones mentioned earlier in this tread when you run this bottle out. ^__^

Flynn
October 16th, 2009, 11:12 PM
My dr. recently told me that 400 or 800 mg of calcium is really not enough daily for women and that I should be taking closer to 1200 per day.

Supposedly the calcium requirement for women is strongly age-dependent. Maybe you were looking at a calcium intake for the wrong age group?

Canarygirl
October 17th, 2009, 12:18 AM
So I think I accidentally proved one of the points made in this thread:
Another thing you need to be aware of: GREATER than the recommended daily dose is VERY VERY BAD unless your doctor has put you on it as a short-term precaution. Take care that you are not exceeding it when you are mixing and matching several tablets like that, especially as you already exceed the recommended daily dose for calcium, for instance in one tablet.


I received the bottle of Biosil a couple of days ago and started taking about 12 drops a day. Well, I'd already been taking a hair supplement with horsetail in it, and I kept taking that one. AND, I got excited about that thread on diatomatous earth (silica gel) and took a tablespoon full of that for a couple of days too.

Well....I've been peeing like a son-of-a-gun for the past 2 days and my kidneys have been aching. Not good. More research led me to read that horsetail is a diaretic and is hard on the kidneys. All of these supplements are labeled as "safe" but taking too much and/or mixing/matching the same thing is not safe at all, so pay attention and be careful.

Neen
October 17th, 2009, 12:23 AM
Thanks Flynn.

I just did a search for BioSil and found this:

"The body absorbs silicon only in the form of Orthosilicic Acid: a dissolved form of silicon that consists of a single molecule or monomer. Orthosolicic Acid is produced in small amounts in the stomach from dietary silicon. Only biosil contains a highly potent 2% solution of stabilized, biologically active stabilized, concentrated Orthosilicic Acid. Horsetail, algae and polymerized silicic acid have a relatively poor rate of conversion to stabilized, concentrated Orthosilicic Acid and, thus, are not well absorbed. Human studies indicate that while silicon from horsetail absorbs slightly better than the colloidal form, BioSil absorbs 2.5 times better than horsetail or colloidal gel." (http://www.new-body.org/Biosil-30-ml-p-853.html).

If accurate, it explains a few things.