Why the prejudice?

[RancheroTheBee]

Over in the makeover thread that Eric started, someone (I think it was Wavelength) made a few great points about why long hair is sometimes seen as negative, dirty, a sign of mental illness.

I wanted to start a discussion on why this happens. Sometimes, we often chock it up to envy, or misunderstanding, but what about the people who are clearly not envious or do understand why you have long hair, and still think there's something wrong with you?

I apologize if there's a thread like this, by the way. If there isn't, I'd love to discuss why some people have a very negative attitude about long hair in general. And I'm not talking about specific people, exactly. I mean more about the general public's perception of very long hair. I say this because I can think of very few media outlets that embrace long hair on people over the age of 25 (and on men of all ages) and it somewhat confuses me. There's always the odd friend or family member who makes a disparaging comment about long hair, but do you think they would still feel this way if it was socially acceptable to snark about people with long hair? And why is it more acceptable for younger people to have long hair, but suddenly it's a fashion no-no once you hit 40?

I think the reason I want to discuss this is because although a lot of us here know the result of people's negative views, i.e.: Women over the age of whatever shouldn't have long hair; men with long hair are freaks, etc. I don't recall many discussions where we tried to see the roots, no pun, of the issue. Maybe we have, but I haven't been here that long, so humour me. :p

[practikalmagik]

I guess what it comes down to a lot of the time is that people (as a collective) don't like anyone who deviates too far from the normal range. It makes them feel insecure and scared because you feel like you can't predict how they will act possibly. We humans place a great deal of emphasis on appearance to give us social cues and:

Having long hair on a guy isn't the norm (because it isn't socially acceptable for guys to be into beauty and fashion unless they are gay *rolls eyes*)
Having long hair past a certain age isn't the norm (which I assume stems from hair thinning post-menopause)
Having hair past BSL requires commitment and isn't the norm (plus hairdressers would all go out of business :p)

That's my theory anyway. I dunno bout the rest of you but I've certainly made judgements about a person based on looks. I'm not proud of it but I'm only human.

[LutraLutra]

I think there’s a whole heap of reasons, some specific to women with long hair and some for all longhairs.

For women, hair is ‘read’ by society as a sexual display. For young women hair that’s long(ish), non-silver, shiny and healthy is seen as the standard to which women should aim for. All of those characteristics are read as meaning the woman is healthy, fertile, well fed, and therefore of high status. As we know, hair takes a long time to grow and long healthy hair means that the woman has been well fed and healthy over many years.

Once a woman passes a certain age (lets say 35 or 40) she’s supposed to be done with breeding, and therefore she doesn’t need to display her breeding potential in such an obvious way. Therefore it can be seen as inappropriate to have long hair, especially if she’s (shock horror) embraced her slivers, as silver hairs are a sign of greater age.

Very long hair on men and/or women is very unusual, and so could be read as a form of body modification. I’m not saying that that’s what I think, I’m saying that it’s a way society in general could perceive it. :flower:

Very short hair is a sign of rebellion and anger. Very long hair can have mystical connotations, or religious connotations, even if that person doesn’t have those reasons for growing their hair. Society in general doesn’t really like that either.

Because very long hair is very usual society is curious about it. Does the longhair wash it every day? And if not, then it must be dirty. Very long hair must be difficult to care for, because we read in magazines and see on TV that short hair is ‘liberating’ and ‘easy to wear’.

To a lesser extent, I also think that some people would like to have long hair, but have been told they can’t or have picked up on negative feedback, so they don’t. This might make them feel uncomfortable seeing someone who has what they want.

And to an even lesser extent, some people might just not like it, and feel freaked out by it. I’m slightly freaked out by very long fingernails even though I don’t really know why. Although I'd never, ever tell that person what I thought.

I’m sure there are many more reasons, and also many combinations of all or none of the above.

[manderly]

I'm really fascinated at how standardized images of beauty change over time. 100 years ago it was the norm for women to have very long hair, BSL or longer, and it was cared for gently and protected in updos like we do here.

Then the flapper style hit, and women were sporting collarbone and chin length bobs. I imagine it was a form of liberation, going from very covered clothing-wise to loose dresses and cutting your hair off very short.

Hair then became something that was constantly coiffed and remained fairly short, BSL being fairly long through the 30s, 40s, and 50s. It was teased, curled, and sprayed into large and intricate styles.

When the 60s hit and hippies rolled around, it was another liberating moment for women. Removing the constrictive garments (bras) much like was done in the beginning of the century, and growing their hair out long and letting it flow down was in opposition to the extremely styled bobs and beehives they and their mothers had sported.

The pendulum of fashion has once again swung back and gave us the 80s and 90s with teased and styled mall hair, super short and slicked androgynous hair, and "The Rachel" cut, flat irons, etc.

Now we see wild colors, pokey and choppy looking emo cuts, pixies, etc. Long hair seems to be coming back into vogue again, but it seems to be still mostly reserved for the celebrities, and it's always styled and set beautifully.

I didn't read the thread you're speaking about, so I don't really have much to say specifically about the mental illness aspect, other than long and unkempt hair is a common stereotype of someone with a mental illness. Crazy wild woman hair or old man dreadlocks are a common sight on the streets here. I believe the thought process is Length = not cutting = no thought to common grooming practices = unkempt and dirty IMHO. :)

Interesting topic.

[Toadstool]

I think many people are revolted by shed hair and the longer the hair, the longer it will be when shed.
I think there are connotations of death too- hair is dead and falls out, people may view it as a waste product because of this. Also there's the myth that hair keeps growing after you're dead.
Often very long hair hasn't been cared for and can look unkempt.
I think Freud said a fear of hair is to do with fear of sexuality or something. But then he said everything was.

[Kuchen]

Yes, hair is a body part which can be separated from the body, and is therefore bound in kinds of taboos.


I'll admit too, that when I was a surly, insecure teenager caught up in a lot of surly and insecure teenage politics, I remember looking at a girl wearing her knee-length hair down and thinking, who does she think she is? An elf princess?

Now, after prolongued exposure to all the nastiness, hypocrisy and greed of the beauty myth and women's magazines and so on, I salute that girl. Better to be an elf princess in your head than someone who is so lost in that commercial beauty myth that she denigrates others (like teenage me).

Not that I don't enjoy a lot of fashion and mainstream glamour, just that I want to see it for what it is – just one possibility in this world.

[Toadstool]

I'll admit too, that when I was a surly, insecure teenager caught up in a lot of surly and insecure teenage politics, I remember looking at a girl wearing her knee-length hair down and thinking, who does she think she is? An elf princess?


Still laughing out loud at your teenage honesty!

[Kuchen]

Ha ha! Yes, wasn't I a sweetheart?

[manderly]

Ahhh, to be a surly teenager! I think few people like to admit that the reason teens populate malls isn't to "hang" or "shop", but to people watch and snark about anything and everything.

I still do this, and I have to catch myself at how nasty and catty I can be. It's quite appalling.

[Pierre]

In most species, if one sex displays something, it's generally the male. So it makes no sense to me that women, but not men, should have long hair. I also have a long beard, which women generally can't.

I'm an aspie, so I'm ignorant of social cues (or at least societal cues). I grow my hair and henna my nails, and though I don't wear makeup, I eat well and it shows in my face.

[twolunarspring]

In literature, madwomen are portrayed as having long, loose hair - particularly in the 18th and 19th centuries. I guess because it's a rejection of the norm - to keep it under control, neat, 'modest'. I think it's also been associated with wealth/poverty in the opposite sense as has been mentioned, too: wealthy, high-status women will have had maids to coiff and style their hair into intricate updos, whereas poorer women will not have... and that is still true today to a degree.

Pretty much *all* women will have had long hair, but it won't have been on display. I expect it was also associated with prostitution?

All this is true of Western culture, but in other parts of the world the norms are different, of course. For most Westerners, dreadlocks = dirty, unkempt, rebellious, but in a lot of other cultures they indicate status, grooming, vitality, wealth.

What it comes down to, nowadays, really, is deviation from the norm... long hair is not the norm, therefore it provokes extreme reactions. And add to that the sanitisation of our culture, and especially women's bodies: hair is *dirty*. Legs, underarms, pubic hair must either be removed completely or meticulously groomed to keep it 'clean' and I think to an extent people feel the same way about the hair on peoples' heads.

[Gabriel]

I didn't read the other thread, but I find this topic fascinating.

Maybe it's a cultural thing or something but where I grew up short hair was a sign of internal struggle projected outward. A bad break up or a mental break down, and someone who had beautiful long hair would sometimes show up with a total pixie cut the next day.

Not always, sometimes someone just wanted a change of style or whatever, but on some occasions, some dramatic emotion swayed the person to get her hair cut.

[LutraLutra]

(snip!)
Maybe it's a cultural thing or something but where I grew up short hair was a sign of internal struggle projected outward. A bad break up or a mental break down, and someone who had beautiful long hair would sometimes show up with a total pixie cut the next day.

Not always, sometimes someone just wanted a change of style or whatever, but on some occasions, some dramatic emotion swayed the person to get her hair cut.

Yes, I agree with this. It's the whole 'transformation' thing you find on makeover TV shows and in magazines. Lots of old, dead hair is removed, and so is the trauma that goes with it. Or, that's the theory. :rolleyes:

[LaurelSpring]

I recently had a man tell me that anything below bsl was freakish like women who grow really long nails. Oddly enough I realized that I do think really long nails are freakish! Maybe thats just because I feel handicapped if mine get much past my finger. Maybe really long hair just overwhelms people and they couldnt imagine how to deal with it so they consider it weird also.

[EdG]

I think there are two reasons.

The first is that people instinctively don't like other people who are different than they are. These differences may include both physical traits and beliefs. We see examples of this all the time in the news. There's a classic psychology experiment in which the host hands out two colors of hats at a party, and pretty soon the guests have segregated into two groups: one group with one color hat, and the other group with the other color hat. Most people perceive a long-haired person as being different. :(

The second reason is that not everyone can grow long hair due to genetics. We like to believe that all people were created equally, but the truth is, we weren't. For example, at 135 pounds, I'll never become a famous football player no matter how hard I try. But I can do other things that most famous football players couldn't. :D Since not everyone can grow long hair, the media and corporate advertisers have aimed for the least-common-denominator role models, i.e. short to medium length hair that most people can realistically achieve. The media and corporations have figured out that the total available market would be too small if they aimed advertising towards long-hairs.

I really believe it's good that people are not all the same. We should celebrate our individuality, including long hair. :cheese:
Ed

[BlueWaterRed]

For the last 50-something years, I think much of what society considers "normal" in the beauty realm is driven by marketing in magazines, later in TV and more recently on the Internet. The beauty industry creates its market by making us (and men too) feel we're not whatever-enough if we don't use this product, go with the trendy hair fashions etc. It's a billion $ industry based on making us feel badly about our images (and therefore, our very beings!) if we don't use x products.

One of the things I love about LHC is making us step back and question those subliminal and overt marketing messages and ultimately choose what's right for ourselves based on health and common sense. And to feel wonderful about our choices ...

That being said, I think women (and all of you gorgeous handsome long-haired men) having more choices about what's acceptable from, say, 100 years ago is a good thing. My grandmother is 104 and tells us that having shorter hair was "just not done" and thought of as terribly brazen. But in the 1920s, she moved from rural Nova Scotia to Boston and got her long hair bobbed in the urban style of the day.

Here in Maine, there is a lot of long hair on both men and women, and lots of it isn't well cared for. I think this creates that dried out/frizzed out/greasy long hair image that people think is solved by cutting it short.

I am hoping too that the notion becomes popular that caring for long hair is 'greener' than short hair care. The 'green' label seems to be slapped on all kinds of choices and products these days, but in terms of water, electricity, and products, not to mention warmth for those of us in northern climates, long hair is a great choice.

I believe that LHC can change people's minds about long hair one head at a time. Or a thousand.

My 2 cents for a Sunday morning. Time for another cup of coffee.

[jasper]

I think dirty and unkempt hair could create a mental connection to insanity or neglect or something negative no matter what the length was. Really long hair in that state could signal that the negativity has been going on for years. I think the look is used that way often enough in film and television that giving a character long, wild, messy hair is sort of a "short hand" for crazy.

But I really can't see why clean, healthy, well cared for hair would conjure those ideas. Clean, but damaged, unmanaged long hair will get some disapproval from the fashion police, but so would clean, damaged, unmanaged medium or short hair.

It's the business of the fashion industry to tell people how they should look. But I can't see that many people around me buy in to it so absolutely when it comes to hair. I see long hair on people of all ages and adults seem to grow their hair or cut their hair to meet their own comfort level.

My hair in my forties is as long as it's ever been.

[Elvi]

I have noted that middle aged and older women are often advised to cut their long hair shorter in order to look younger! In my youth the grandmothers used to have very long hair in tight buns. So on the contrary I am pleased now that many in the young generation like to have long hair. Further in the Bible old wise prophets had long hair!

I think that in my country long hair is not specifically associated with any age. People can choose to have long hair for many different reasons. :cool:

[swanns]

I have noted that middle aged and older women are often advised to cut their long hair shorter in order to look younger! In my youth the grandmothers used to have very long hair in tight buns. So on the contrary I am pleased now that many in the young generation like to have long hair. Further in the Bible old wise prophets had long hair!

The perception of hair is so contradictory, especially age-wise.
- Women past a certain age aren't supposed to have long hair
- Updos are for older women only

I'm confused. :rolleyes:

[Bellalalala]

Very long hair seems socially acceptable on a very limited number of people.
If the wearer is a tall, slim, incredibly beautiful woman with very shiny hair, then it's a lot more acceptable than anyone else.

Maybe this is because hair is so overtly sexual and feminine that it's only seen as appropriate on women who are socially viewed as overtly sexual in a positive way???
Maybe it's seen similarly to older women who dress in a blatantly sexual manner?

I'm not really sure.

Maybe it has to do with the IMMENSE social marketing that tells us that it's normal to periodically want to chop off all of our hair and then subsequently grow it out again, only to chop it off in a few years.
Really long hair clearly defies this "normal" hair length cycle in women.

One thing I know for certain is that being a "long hair" very clearly states to the world that you have a very very different attitude towards your hair than others.

Being so overtly different about something so overtly sexual probably weirds out a lot of people.


That's just my thoughts.

I really don't know though, but I do know that as a teenager I probably would have looked at a long-hair and thought "who does she think she is, some kind of elf-princess" as well.

[Honey39]

Hmmmm, interesting. I have my own reaction to super-long hair as well.

I think for me, my interest in long hair is definitely tied up with my self-esteem and body image. I'm overweight, and I can lavish time and care on my hair and it looks good and makes me feel good. It's caring for a part of my body that doesn't depend upon my weight or age, and it looks beautiful and sensuous and lovely. It is something I can care for which doesn't (on the whole) rely on others' input, it's versatile and it responds to slow, gentle care. I find growing my hair soothing and a confidence booster, because it isn't reliant on the whole of me to look good.

I can't think of anything comparative, but I do know that my weight and my hair are tied up with each other. That my hair is a part of me that I like, have always liked, and so I love spending time on it. Since I've been here, it actually looks good all the time.

I've noticed that this is not uncommon - I've seen very overweight (but very groomed) women who have beautiful, long and glowing hair. I think it's a part of us that we can like without reserve, because it responds to care well, and that care is actually quite easy to provide - it's not like going jogging every morning! But oiling and gentle handling etc can give us something that is beautiful and feminine and reliable.

I don't know, probably not making much sense here...

[Shiva]

Ok here's my take on it -

Long, long, long hair is equivalent to long, long, long nails:
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l226/NorthernXposure/fingernails.jpg

What is YOUR reaction to the above picture? You'd probably want to wisk that woman right away to get a manicure, wouldn't you?

[11eleven]

Ahh...my initial reaction to the picture is one of disgust, I'm not gonna lie. I am also wondering how she would go about her daily activities and how she sleeps without breaking her nails. Hmm...I wonder if that is what some people think about long hairs?

[rhubarbarin]

I find nails like that extremely creepy, it actually provokes a visceral reaction of disgust, and I can't imagine trying to live my life like that. But I think super-long hair (knee and beyond) looks very interesting and beautiful.

But yeah, I understand why some people would have the same reaction to long hair as I do to long nails. Toadstool made a good point that many people are disgusted by shed hairs, and the longer the shed hair the more unusual and disgusting it would be to these people.

I think hair is kind of unique in human cultures. It is always something that gets attention, there is always an extreme amount of significance attached to it, and many rules surrounding how the individual should wear it based on age and sex. In every culture I can think of there are quite different hairstyles deemed appropriate for men, boys, women, and girls, and negative reactions from the majority if someone doesn't keep their hair in the way that's currently deemed appropriate in their culture.

[twolunarspring]

Well, except having nails as long as that presumably prevents you from doing just about anything, right? Like - long hair can be bunned up, but what does that lady do when she needs to pick something up? So it's not really the same. Though saying that, I don't regard her as being a freak of any sort either, what she does with her body is no concern of mine. I didn't feel disgust seeing that photo, but I was certainly surprised.

[noelgirl]

Ok here's my take on it -

Long, long, long hair is equivalent to long, long, long nails:
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l226/NorthernXposure/fingernails.jpg

What is YOUR reaction to the above picture? You'd probably want to wisk that woman right away to get a manicure, wouldn't you?

I wouldn't, since it seems pretty clear to me that it's a choice she's made. It's not necessarily a choice I'd make, but I don't look at her and think she needs me or anyone else to intervene. I'm sure she's familiar with the concept of a manicure, just as we're all familiar with the concept of haircuts whether we get them or not, and if she wanted shorter nails she'd have them.

[Shiva]

Ahh...my initial reaction to the picture is one of disgust, I'm not gonna lie. I am also wondering how she would go about her daily activities and how she sleeps without breaking her nails. Hmm...I wonder if that is what some people think about long hairs?
Same here.

I do admire nice, well cared for long, long, long hairs, but I do wonder how in the world they do anything or get anything done (Don't all the longhairs here jump on my case, please!). I had mid-waist hair as my longest and found it hard to do anything without putting it up or back. If I have long hair I want to wear it down... but, that's just me.

[marikamt]

In literature, madwomen are portrayed as having long, loose hair - particularly in the 18th and 19th centuries. I guess because it's a rejection of the norm - to keep it under control, neat, 'modest'. I think it's also been associated with wealth/poverty in the opposite sense as has been mentioned, too: wealthy, high-status women will have had maids to coiff and style their hair into intricate updos, whereas poorer women will not have... and that is still true today to a degree.

Pretty much *all* women will have had long hair, but it won't have been on display. I expect it was also associated with prostitution?

I think it does have lot to do with sexuality and independence..... those "madwomen" really went against the grain... the lived alone (oh, the horror!), were generally educated (not formally, but folklore handed down, "healers", midwives, etc). They didn't "need" a man....... even today, *most* very successful women have a "uniform" and a "look"..... we (as women) have come a long way in what is acceptable/ what we are able to do, but there is still a standard and anyone who deviates makes people nervous...
I think "longhairs" (especially us more "mature" ones) march to our own drum to some extent... and society doesn't know what to do with that....

ETA- the "madwomen" I am referring to are generalizations from movies/ books, etc.

[Toadstool]

I really don't know though, but I do know that as a teenager I probably would have looked at a long-hair and thought "who does she think she is, some kind of elf-princess" as well.


I don't know why but every time I read this it makes me laugh out loud.
Sorry if that's inappropriate on a serious thread.

[Fethenwen]

Interesting this thought about mental illness and long hair came up. There might be something to it, unkept hair that haven't been cut in a long time means the person must be neglecting herself too.
I came to think of this lady from the movie 'rec.', she had turned into a zombie and walked around in her pyjamas. A typical crazy old lady (http://www.collider.com/uploads/imageGallery/Rec/rec_movie_image.jpg) Ok, sorry this picture is a bit disturbing :p But it proves my point rather well.

Erm, what was my point?... Well, there are people out there who associate short hair with tidiness and control.

[Elvi]

So I understand an older woman wearing her long hair wide open was a "madwoman" or a "witch". In our days she might be an eccentric artist who kind of lives above or is unaffected by other people´s opinions or just enjoys the attention. Like in old times at least in my country open long hair styles were for unmarried young women and children.

Bunned long hair especially when tightly bunned is more conventional. A girl may have that for ballet or figure skating, an older woman for religious reasons.

Anyway, a man´s long hair can always be considered unconventional.

[Little_Bird]

Well, I think it's got to be sociological. People are just not used to it anymore. If you think, a long time ago (centuries) women wouldn't cut their hair. Even in the medieval era, men had long hair too.

A history teacher once told my class something that made great sense, which is that men started to go very short with the crescent wars, after the 18th century perhaps. Even before that everyone would resort to wigs to make the hair look longer. Slaves and horses would be the baits for these wigs.

Now, recently, people just don't see it as necessary anymore, and I think it's because you suposely should have a lot going on on your life, leaving you without time for paying so much atention to your hair. So long hair can start looking like an ossession, as if you were holding on to it for protection or because you don't have anything else. At least sometimes I think people judge me that way.

Some weeks ago I was in the swimming pool with a friend of my family, and he knows very well how I feel about my hair, and I was geting my hair ready to go to swim. He asked me if I was thinking about ever cutting it short again (to which I replied no, not that I imagine it right now). He asked me if I saqw my hair as a friend, a companion... I tought it was such a silly question. I replied no of course, altough it's obvious it can get you distracted. But maybe they think we are more dependent than we are, or even we think we're more dependent than we are, i don't know.

But I think the core of the question is really that people just don't think it's right anymore, and maybe they take the short cuts as a step up on your mature growing, as if you have a life and can't really worry about your hair. Sociologically, other than just fashion, it might work that way.

Just my little opinion here :p

[rexy]

Very long hair seems socially acceptable on a very limited number of people.
If the wearer is a tall, slim, incredibly beautiful woman with very shiny hair, then it's a lot more acceptable than anyone else.

Maybe this is because hair is so overtly sexual and feminine that it's only seen as appropriate on women who are socially viewed as overtly sexual in a positive way???
Maybe it's seen similarly to older women who dress in a blatantly sexual manner?

I'm not really sure.

This is interesting and probably true. Look the the Garnier/pantein commercials. All the models are beautiful have long gorgeous hair, and those products def. sell!

[florenonite]

But I really can't see why clean, healthy, well cared for hair would conjure those ideas. Clean, but damaged, unmanaged long hair will get some disapproval from the fashion police, but so would clean, damaged, unmanaged medium or short hair.

I think that maybe long hair isn't socially acceptable partially because hair treated in the same damaging way will look so much worse at waist than at shoulder, simply due to the fact that the damage is happening over a much greater time period.

Furthermore, because so many women don't treat their hair gently, they cause damage which needs trimmed off regularly. Therefore they think it's gross to not trim one's hair regularly because it means you're leaving damaged hair there, which gives the impression of not caring about your appearance.


Well, except having nails as long as that presumably prevents you from doing just about anything, right? Like - long hair can be bunned up, but what does that lady do when she needs to pick something up? So it's not really the same. Though saying that, I don't regard her as being a freak of any sort either, what she does with her body is no concern of mine. I didn't feel disgust seeing that photo, but I was certainly surprised.

A lot of people with shorter hair seem to think that people with longer hair always wear it down. Perhaps this is because people with shorter styles tend to wear their hair down, because long-haired celebrities wear theirs down, because they happened to see someone with very long hair down once and that image remained in their memory, or because they personally don't like the look of hair tied up, and prefer it down. Perhaps it's even a combination of these things, but regardless short-haired folk tend not to think that one can simply bun long hair out of the way and it won't be a nuisance.

[Merewen]

Most negative comments I hear are less to do with the actual length and more the condition. Long perfectly shiny hair with a very blunt hemline is good. Fairytale hemlines not so much. My mom, for example, has a huge issue with the hemline. I just trimmed mine up to even it up (and it made a big difference!) but she's still telling me that it would look better if it was trimmed up. Fairytale hemlines (much more common on longer hair) are seen as "uncared for", which we all know here is not the case, but many people don't.

That being said:



I'll admit too, that when I was a surly, insecure teenager caught up in a lot of surly and insecure teenage politics, I remember looking at a girl wearing her knee-length hair down and thinking, who does she think she is? An elf princess?



I really don't know though, but I do know that as a teenager I probably would have looked at a long-hair and thought "who does she think she is, some kind of elf-princess" as well.

I am TOTALLY going for elven princess.

[Kuchen]

I am 100% pro elf princess these days :wink:

[QueenAnne'sLace]

You are absolutely right thinking of this in terms of fashion.
Long hair on everyone was seen as a sign of wealth, health, and power only 500 years ago. When you think about it, 500 years is nothing in the scheme of time on this planet.

If you're religious, all your role models had long hair-
Jesus
Muhammed
Abraham
Buddha
Krishna
etc

I don't know why people let "fashionistas" tell them what is hip. I've fallen prey to this like everyone else from time to time. If we all followed what the "experts" tell us to, we'd be getting bald patches from dying, straightening, perming, extension-ing, blowdrying, cutting, and teasing our hair into oblivion every couple of months just to fit in with some "style" they made up.

[QueenAnne'sLace]

What an amazingly well-thought out response!! :bowtome:

You are very smart to look inside a person's motivations. Many of us internalize our relationship with our hair, and I'm glad someone mentioned it.

[Toadstool]

I am 100% pro elf princess these days :wink:

Oh, me too!

[Wavelength]

I really like this thread so far. Lots of good ideas and very thought-provoking.

My husband and I were discussing this yesterday, and we came up with another perspective. Some of this seems to be driven by a twisted sort of work ethic, perpetuated and promoted by the fashion industry. I'll try to explain.

Your average modern woman gets a haircut that costs a lot of time/expense/work to maintain. She has to visit a salon regularly. She probably uses several grooming tools and products to maintain her "look". She spends a significant amount of cash to afford this upkeep. She's told that this is normal and the preferred method of haircare, and she has all sorts of support by the beauty industry (who wants to stay in business of course) and by her peers, who do the same thing themselves.

In psychological terms, anyone who spends a significant amount of time/effort/money on something is undergoing self-referential reinforcement that their activity (whatever it is) is correct. In other words, they've worked hard to attain this result, therefore it must be good. And more, they feel as if they've earned the reward they get, whatever that reward may be.

Now, say someone else comes along who attained a similar reward, but didn't put in nearly the same effort to achieve it. In many cases, the first person will seriously resent that. How dare they have the same outcome when they didn't put in the effort? (It's even worse if the other person has a better reward than the one who worked so hard.)

To bring this back to hair, say Woman A has obeyed the dictums of the beauty industry, had her hair cut and styled (at a great deal of expense), faithfully visits her salon every six weeks to maintain her style (at more expense), and purchases a lot of tools and products to keep up her style at home (at still more expense and personal effort).

Then along comes Woman B who has naturally long hair -- and is perfectly happy with her personal style. She hasn't obeyed the beauty industry nor spent nearly as much money and time to maintain it. It just, literally, grew that way.

Woman A is going to feel resentment, and more, she might feel that Woman B has somehow CHEATED. After all, this isn't how she was told it was supposed to work! The beauty industry told her that a woman must work hard to keep her looks. Woman B clearly hasn't worked very hard at all, therefore she has not earned her personal style and does not deserve the rewards!

Here's where the twisted work ethic rears its head. It's all in the words "work hard", "earned", and "deserve".

And this is the root of another contradiction, that natural long hair is dirty, lazy, etc, but hair extensions are stylish, sassy and sexy. If you have naturally long, beautiful hair, you don't deserve it because you didn't work (or pay) for it. BUT, if you cut it off and spend a lot of time/effort/money on extensions, then that's fine! Because you've now "earned" your look!

The dissonance works the other way too: Since most women work so hard on their hair to make it clean and pretty, someone who doesn't work as hard must therefore have ugly, disgusting hair. And anyone who doesn't work on their hair like the rest of us clean-living, decent folk, must be shown the error of their ways.

Of course this is fueled, in great part, by the fashion industry who wants our money. But playing on our work ethic perceptions is key. The message is: If you work hard and spend a lot of money, then you're allowed to look good because you've earned it. If you don't work hard, then you've cheated the system, played the rest of us for suckers, and you must be a bad, lazy, dirty person with serious mental issues.

ETA: I also think this resentment can be largely unconscious. Woman A does indeed resent Woman B, but she's sublimated this into a more socially acceptable reaction ("long hair is dirty and ugly, eww"). And this is further reinforced because viewers of makeover shows are being spoon-fed rationalizations from the beauty industry that make their negative emotions acceptable.

I think that's partly where all the negativity comes from. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if there's some Overton Window (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window) going on, even though this isn't directly related to politics.

[twolunarspring]

Wow, Wavelength - excellent and thought-provoking post!

[Wavelength]

Wow, Wavelength - excellent and thought-provoking post!

Thank you! I was trying to sum up what had been an hour-long discussion with my husband. Glad I managed to make it somewhat clear! :)

[Paniscus]

OK, I know we want to keep this to hair, but I just had to chime in and say that I do not find this attractive at all. I'm all for "to each her own," but this makes me wonder how she functions in life. Can she even wipe herself? :tmi:

With regard to hair, I do think it's cultural and also dependent on what's in fashion. Like another poster mentioned, long haired women in history was the norm, as was wearing hair bunned. I think in a lot of societies today, if you're not getting your nails done, or spending money at the salon, you are somehow not taking care of yourself :rolleyes: as Wavelength suggests.

And yes, great post Wavelength!

And what about the perception that men with long hair must all be pot smoking, heavy metal artists?





Ok here's my take on it -

Long, long, long hair is equivalent to long, long, long nails:
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l226/NorthernXposure/fingernails.jpg

What is YOUR reaction to the above picture? You'd probably want to wisk that woman right away to get a manicure, wouldn't you?

[Kleis]

OK, I know we want to keep this to hair, but I just had to chime in and say that I do not find this attractive at all. I'm all for "to each her own," but this makes me wonder how she functions in life. Can she even wipe herself? :tmi:


Not to derail this too much, but the lady in question definitely could wipe herself. To her, the thought that she couldn't was probably as silly as that of us longhairs not being able to use the toilet without hair getting in the way! (She appeared on television once and demonstrated--tastefully.) Unfortunately, she was in a car accident recently and as well as getting injured, lost her nails. I understand her to be heartbroken about it.

This is just a good example of seeing what other people may see in our long hair, but choosing to give them credit for being able to function as well as you or I. After all, her nails didn't grow long overnight!

[tomatov]

This is an interesting topic, although I have to admit that I can't personally relate, never having had any negative responses. (Although when I cut bangs, people were surprised because, as someone said, they thought I regarded my hair as something "holy"...) Also, I think that concept of earning something because you worked hard for it, and expressing it in that way, seems a very American concept. I don't think a French woman would think she was more deserving of good looks because she worked for it, it should look effortless. Well, it seems like that to me at least.

And a side not on the elf-princess thing. The one girl at my high school back in the day who had classic length hair? Her name was Arwen...

[Wavelength]

Also, I think that concept of earning something because you worked hard for it, and expressing it in that way, seems a very American concept. I don't think a French woman would think she was more deserving of good looks because she worked for it, it should look effortless. Well, it seems like that to me at least.


That's half-right. It should "look" effortless, but not actually BE effortless. It should require a lot of work so that you know you've earned it, otherwise you should feel guilty that you haven't deserved it. :rolleyes:

And I agree, it's probably very much a New World/Puritanistic attitude. (I'm Canadian and I see it here quite a bit too.)

[Fethenwen]

Ah man, I just found this one :rolleyes::

It's from the site 'people of wallmart' (http://***************.com/?paged=6.)

http://***************.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/169.jpg

And the description goes:

"I guess she just kinda puts it to the side when she uses the bathroom. But then it would still probably hit the floor and that’s gross, especially in public. So maybe she just balls it up and holds it. But then what does she do with it while she wipes? Any logical input would be greatly appreciated here.
Louisiana"

Do people really feel this way about extremely long hair?

[swanns]

And a side not on the elf-princess thing. The one girl at my high school back in the day who had classic length hair? Her name was Arwen...

Haha, amazing! :D

Fethenwen, how thick can people be? It doesn't require much to put the hair up with a stick, and even if a hairstick is a foreign concept to you then with an elastic. Sometimes it seems people are just purposely acting stupid when it comes to long hair. (The picture is named 'Cousin It' on the site by the way, lovely.)

[twolunarspring]

Not to derail this too much, but the lady in question definitely could wipe herself. To her, the thought that she couldn't was probably as silly as that of us longhairs not being able to use the toilet without hair getting in the way! (She appeared on television once and demonstrated--tastefully.)

I am still confused about this... how can that be? :confused: I really don't see how it's the same as having long hair... you can't fold your nails out of the way when it's inconvenient, right?

[cakedcake]

I actually never knew people felt so negatively about long hair until found LHC. I mean, I was aware of the negativity about older women with longer hair to some extent, and I'm familiar with scissor-happy critical stylists. But, personally, as someone who never had any particular inclination towards long hair until recently, I still can't remember thinking such negative things about it, especially nothing akin to the repulsion when viewing extremely long nails.

[Syaoransbear]

Some people who do have extremely long hair do not actually care for it the same way some other long hair's do. This sometimes results in the ends being frizzy, scraggly and damaged. That makes people automatically assume that everyone with long hair has dirty, damaged hair, even when their hair is shiny and well-cared for.

Currently, people view really long hair as a sign of neglect and they think you don't care or are too poor to care for your hair. Grooming is a very natural thing for us that we look for in others, even animals spend lots of time during the day grooming themselves. Sometimes women that don't wear make-up get this sort of reaction. People want to think you have the means and effort to make yourself look good.

Some people think short hair is cute. Cute is often associated with youth, which is why people think it will make you look younger(although, who wants to look like a 3 year old?). Long hair is viewed as sexual and some people just don't want to view older women as sexual creatures, but as motherly creatures.

There's also the problems with grey and white hair when a woman gets older. Unfortunately, with the combination of wrinkles and long white/grey hair, this sometimes reminds children and adults of, well, witches. This might be why it's encouraged to cut and dye your hair as you get older.

It also seems that most people believe that hair should be something that accents your face, not your torso.

This is all I could figure out about why people don't like long hair :shrug:

[Kleis]

I am still confused about this... how can that be? :confused: I really don't see how it's the same as having long hair... you can't fold your nails out of the way when it's inconvenient, right?

Of course it's not the same as having long hair, but the point is that people who have chosen to do something different have also methods to manage doing the things that are important to them. No, she's obviously not a rock-climber, but lots of people with short nails aren't either. However, can she have good hygiene? Certainly. Can she do the things she wants to do? I imagine so. Similarly, the minute my long hair impedes me from doing *anything* that's important to me, it's gone. But it's been long nearly all my life. So far so good.

Note: I keep my nails cut down as far as I can. This is simply about pointing out that some people who don't have the attribute (long hair or long nails) don't even try to really understand. It's much easier and more entertaining (for them) to simply assume the longhaired woman dips her hair in the toilet and the long nailed woman never wipes. :shrug:

[twolunarspring]

I understand what you're getting at :)

[Fethenwen]

Haha, amazing! :D

Fethenwen, how thick can people be? It doesn't require much to put the hair up with a stick, and even if a hairstick is a foreign concept to you then with an elastic. Sometimes it seems people are just purposely acting stupid when it comes to long hair. (The picture is named 'Cousin It' on the site by the way, lovely.)
Exactly. This prejudice comes a long way from thick people too I guess. Like my friend the other day laughed and commented on this picture, saying that how the heck does she use the toilet? What if she accidentely poop on her hair? Kinda funny, but sad that she doesn't know how problem free long hair can be.

[Elenna]

.... There's also the problems with grey and white hair when a woman gets older. Unfortunately, with the combination of wrinkles and long white/grey hair, this sometimes reminds children and adults of, well, witches. This might be why it's encouraged to cut and dye your hair as you get older....

It is so much easier to get the hair styled and colored, and presto that older lady is not a witch anymore. Except they've brought into the mass media "lock, stock and barrel."

This reminds me of a not well-known 1958 movie that is a Faustian remake called "Damn Yankees." The temptress was a sultry, short-haired dancer (Lolita) seducing (Joe) who had sold his soul to the devil (Mr Applegate) to win a baseball game. At one point in the movie, the short-haired, beautiful Lolita is threatened by Mr Applegate to be changed back into a long-haired, witch-like previous version of herself.

So the implication was that older ladies (magically) turn into slim, beautiful dancers when they get their hair cut short and styled!

[QueenAnne'sLace]

You are soooooooooooooo right on!!!!!!! :bowtome:
Wow.
I feel a bit more optimistic about the future of the human race now.

[jasper]

It could be a mistake to look for anything like logic in the prejudice. The more I read the possible explanations, the more it just feels like intolerance of difference.

[juliaxena]

I don't like hair past tailbone lenght and I'm going to tell why. Maybe this is what some other people think about long hair too. I have never seen really long hair that didn't look dry, brittle at the ends, old and generally "worn out". Hair that long has to be really well taken cared of and while I do think it is possible, I haven't seen it yet. Pictures are one thing, real life experience is quite another. It's very hard to achieve impressive lenghts with regular trims-and I do believe wholeheartedly that long hair needs regular trims to remain split free. I see every split end possible; I can't be tricked lol. I apologise if there are memebers with perfect hair past TBL, like I said, I just haven't seen it yet. Most people haven't...an that's why they can assume hair that long isn't healthy, unamaged and pretty.

[RancheroTheBee]

Exactly. This prejudice comes a long way from thick people too I guess. Like my friend the other day laughed and commented on this picture, saying that how the heck does she use the toilet? What if she accidentely poop on her hair? Kinda funny, but sad that she doesn't know how problem free long hair can be.

I always get confused about comments like these. Do people think that longhairs are so misguided and stupid that basic things like going to the toilet is such a burden and yet they decide to keep it anyway?

Anyway, I'm pleased this thread got so many responses. I really loved all your ideas (especially Wavelength!), and I guess I can put in my own two cents.

I think really long hair is seen as an eccentricity to an extent. Not many people have it, sometimes simply because they cannot achieve it, so when someone does have extremely long hair, I imagine that often people think that the person in question must have decided to grow out their hair to this length just to be really weird. Perhaps it's acceptable to snark at it just because having really long hair, as opposed to say, being in a wheelchair, is a choice. Thus the choice is up for public debate. If your child asked, "Why does that lady/man have such long hair?" you couldn't say, "Well, he/she was born that way." You could say, "He/she just prefers it that way," and that difference is what makes a lot of people think that their opinion on the subject is more persuasive than it really is.

[RancheroTheBee]

I don't like hair past tailbone lenght and I'm going to tell why. Maybe this is what some other people think about long hair too. I have never seen really long hair that didn't look dry, brittle at the ends, old and generally "worn out". Hair that long has to be really well taken cared of and while I do think it is possible, I haven't seen it yet. Pictures are one thing, real life experience is quite another. It's very hard to achieve impressive lenghts with regular trims-and I do believe wholeheartedly that long hair needs regular trims to remain split free. I see every split end possible; I can't be tricked lol. I apologise if there are memebers with perfect hair past TBL, like I said, I just haven't seen it yet. Most people haven't...an that's why they can assume hair that long isn't healthy, unamaged and pretty.

*cough*Igor*cough*

[nowxisxforever]

In most species, if one sex displays something, it's generally the male. So it makes no sense to me that women, but not men, should have long hair. I also have a long beard, which women generally can't.

I'm an aspie, so I'm ignorant of social cues (or at least societal cues). I grow my hair and henna my nails, and though I don't wear makeup, I eat well and it shows in my face.

Henna your *nails*? Interesting! What's that look like? I'm curious!

[nowxisxforever]

Not to derail this too much, but the lady in question definitely could wipe herself. To her, the thought that she couldn't was probably as silly as that of us longhairs not being able to use the toilet without hair getting in the way! (She appeared on television once and demonstrated--tastefully.) Unfortunately, she was in a car accident recently and as well as getting injured, lost her nails. I understand her to be heartbroken about it.

This is just a good example of seeing what other people may see in our long hair, but choosing to give them credit for being able to function as well as you or I. After all, her nails didn't grow long overnight!

Oh no! Poor thing! :( She'd been growing those for soooo so long...

Agreed, though, Kleis-- she probably feels precisely the same about her nails as we feel about our hair. She's had years to adapt to having them, it's not like if we pasted them on and then tried to go about our lives with the same movements as if they were shorter.

I don't think her nails are/were gross either--- shocking and I don't like how they look, but she's not here to decorate my world, and I admire her for being able to grow them that long! Mine break after about 1/3 an inch off my fingers... (I have long, mostly unkempt nails- files, polishes, etc bother me. I can't function without them.)

[nowxisxforever]

I don't like hair past tailbone lenght and I'm going to tell why. Maybe this is what some other people think about long hair too. I have never seen really long hair that didn't look dry, brittle at the ends, old and generally "worn out". Hair that long has to be really well taken cared of and while I do think it is possible, I haven't seen it yet. Pictures are one thing, real life experience is quite another. It's very hard to achieve impressive lenghts with regular trims-and I do believe wholeheartedly that long hair needs regular trims to remain split free. I see every split end possible; I can't be tricked lol. I apologise if there are memebers with perfect hair past TBL, like I said, I just haven't seen it yet. Most people haven't...an that's why they can assume hair that long isn't healthy, unamaged and pretty.

http://jjjlonghairphotopage.zoomshare.com/ Check her hair out! Knee-length and *BEAUTIFUL*. Perfect condition. <3

[Kleis]

I don't like hair past tailbone lenght and I'm going to tell why. Maybe this is what some other people think about long hair too. I have never seen really long hair that didn't look dry, brittle at the ends, old and generally "worn out". Hair that long has to be really well taken cared of and while I do think it is possible, I haven't seen it yet. Pictures are one thing, real life experience is quite another. It's very hard to achieve impressive lenghts with regular trims-and I do believe wholeheartedly that long hair needs regular trims to remain split free. I see every split end possible; I can't be tricked lol. I apologise if there are memebers with perfect hair past TBL, like I said, I just haven't seen it yet. Most people haven't...an that's why they can assume hair that long isn't healthy, unamaged and pretty.

There are plenty of members with beautiful hair past tailbone length. Perfect? Split-end free? :shrug: That's your requirement, not ours. I doubt anyone has any interest in "tricking" you, but nor should we feel obliged to cut our hair to suit someone else's desire for perfection. :flower:

But saying that, I hope you eventually notice the members here with super-long hair that doesn't look old and worn out...even if we have some splits.

[Melisande]

I don't like hair past tailbone lenght and I'm going to tell why. Maybe this is what some other people think about long hair too. I have never seen really long hair that didn't look dry, brittle at the ends, old and generally "worn out". Hair that long has to be really well taken cared of and while I do think it is possible, I haven't seen it yet. Pictures are one thing, real life experience is quite another. It's very hard to achieve impressive lenghts with regular trims-and I do believe wholeheartedly that long hair needs regular trims to remain split free. I see every split end possible; I can't be tricked lol. I apologise if there are memebers with perfect hair past TBL, like I said, I just haven't seen it yet. Most people haven't...an that's why they can assume hair that long isn't healthy, unamaged and pretty.

*cough*Dianyla*cough*
*cough*ChatoyantLocks*cough*
*cough*Cinnamonhair*cough*
*cough*Aisha*cough*
*cough*Stagecoach*cough*
...

[getoffmyskittle]

I don't like hair past tailbone lenght and I'm going to tell why. Maybe this is what some other people think about long hair too. I have never seen really long hair that didn't look dry, brittle at the ends, old and generally "worn out". Hair that long has to be really well taken cared of and while I do think it is possible, I haven't seen it yet. Pictures are one thing, real life experience is quite another. It's very hard to achieve impressive lenghts with regular trims-and I do believe wholeheartedly that long hair needs regular trims to remain split free. I see every split end possible; I can't be tricked lol. I apologise if there are memebers with perfect hair past TBL, like I said, I just haven't seen it yet. Most people haven't...an that's why they can assume hair that long isn't healthy, unamaged and pretty.

I have seen Lady Godiva's (floor length) hair in person, and I assure you, it does not look at all dry, brittle, old, or worn-out.

(Also, nowxisxforever, I inadvertently henna my nails sometimes, and I can tell you how it looks... ORANGE! :lol:)

[Melisande]

From what I heard, extremely short hair gets the same negative reactions in women that extremely long hair gets. I think it's the bell curve (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution)phenomenon. As soon as you move outside the average,i.e., the middle area of the normal distribution, you cause people to think why they see what they see. You become noticeable, different.

Usually, people feel that they themselves have exactly the right and proper hair length/political view/parenting style/attitude towards money/religious weltanschauung/whatever. We all tend to think that we are at the perfect point of the bell curve, and everybody else has just a little too much or a little too little. They deviate - from what we see as average, normal, good.

And then, all the women who have shorter hair than we ourselves are unfeminine, warrior lesbians, ugly or unwilling to make themselves pretty. And all the women who have longer hair are unkempt, feral, wild, looking for erotic attention etc.

There is no way of winning once you move outside the average, the middle part of the bell curve, the accepted norm. (Btw, this bell curve looks different for different age cohorts. There are more younger women with longer hair than older women with longer hair, hence the stricter social rejection of long hair for women over "a certain age").

I hope I could express my view, I feel I definitely push the limits of my English here ;-)

And I think the work ethics thing is true as well, and the cultural assication of the uncontrolled wildness of the madwoman, too. They all work together.

[Merewen]

I am 100% pro elf princess these days :wink:

Oh, me too!

:cheese: Elf princesses rock!

It's just I could imagine myself wandering around imagining I was an elf princess and have someone think that. Cracks me up.

[Mutinous]

From a male perspective, I think a lot of gender identity is evident in hair. Short hair will always be synched with masculinity and long hair with femininity. I find when these expectations are crossed, it puts you outside of the social norm (though I would argue it is far more acceptable for a woman to have her hair short than for a man to wear his long).

You could go for a more capitalist route I suppose. Hair is a massive industry, and as such regular cuts/style changes/colour changes etc. are promoted into society as all of these things benefit that economy. Anyone that does not conform to such standards is again seen as being outside of the social norm.

It's a fascinating social issue really. I would love to write a dissertation on it or something.

[longhairedfairy]

I don't like hair past tailbone lenght and I'm going to tell why. Maybe this is what some other people think about long hair too. I have never seen really long hair that didn't look dry, brittle at the ends, old and generally "worn out". Hair that long has to be really well taken cared of and while I do think it is possible, I haven't seen it yet. Pictures are one thing, real life experience is quite another. It's very hard to achieve impressive lenghts with regular trims-and I do believe wholeheartedly that long hair needs regular trims to remain split free. I see every split end possible; I can't be tricked lol. I apologise if there are memebers with perfect hair past TBL, like I said, I just haven't seen it yet. Most people haven't...an that's why they can assume hair that long isn't healthy, unamaged and pretty.
Really? I've seen it lots of times.

[Kris Dove]

*cough*Dianyla*cough*
*cough*ChatoyantLocks*cough*
*cough*Cinnamonhair*cough*
*cough*Aisha*cough*
*cough*Stagecoach*cough*
...
*cough*Me aged 14!;)

[DragonLady]

Some people who do have extremely long hair do not actually care for it the same way some other long hair's do. This sometimes results in the ends being frizzy, scraggly and damaged. That makes people automatically assume that everyone with long hair has dirty, damaged hair, even when their hair is shiny and well-cared for.


Well, I can speak from experience here. A lot of women want long, beautiful hair, but simply don't know how to take proper care of it. No matter how often they brush it, no matter how often they wash it, no matter how many bottles of ultra-expensive-industrial-strength deep conditioner their sylists sell them, it still looks scraggly. And since the only thing they know is to A) chop it off or B) keep trying the hair just stays frizzy and damaged.

And it's human nature to project on to other people what we don't like about ourselves. "If with all those hours and hundreds of dollars spent, I couldn't keep my long hair nice, you surely can't".




I don't like hair past tailbone lenght and I'm going to tell why. Maybe this is what some other people think about long hair too. I have never seen really long hair that didn't look dry, brittle at the ends, old and generally "worn out". Hair that long has to be really well taken cared of and while I do think it is possible, I haven't seen it yet. Pictures are one thing, real life experience is quite another. It's very hard to achieve impressive lenghts with regular trims-and I do believe wholeheartedly that long hair needs regular trims to remain split free. I see every split end possible; I can't be tricked lol. I apologise if there are memebers with perfect hair past TBL, like I said, I just haven't seen it yet. Most people haven't...an that's why they can assume hair that long isn't healthy, unamaged and pretty.

Uhm...have you strolled through the albums lately? We have a lot of people here with hair that isn't dry, brittle, old or worn-out. And I know when I put my photo up, I didn't do anything to "doctor" it. My husband snapped the picture, and I uploaded it. I don't believe many -or maybe anyone- here has felt the need to Photoshop their hair to make it look nice. It looks nice, because it is nice.

But if you're having trouble with yours, I'm sure there are lots of people here willing to help you identify the problems and their causes so you can find solutions that will work for you.

[Euphony]

Exactly. This prejudice comes a long way from thick people too I guess. Like my friend the other day laughed and commented on this picture, saying that how the heck does she use the toilet? What if she accidentely poop on her hair? Kinda funny, but sad that she doesn't know how problem free long hair can be.
hahaha sorry, I have to ask - is your friend able to get her clothes out of the way to use the toilet?


I don't like hair past tailbone lenght and I'm going to tell why. Maybe this is what some other people think about long hair too. I have never seen really long hair that didn't look dry, brittle at the ends, old and generally "worn out". Hair that long has to be really well taken cared of and while I do think it is possible, I haven't seen it yet. Pictures are one thing, real life experience is quite another. It's very hard to achieve impressive lenghts with regular trims-and I do believe wholeheartedly that long hair needs regular trims to remain split free. I see every split end possible; I can't be tricked lol. I apologise if there are memebers with perfect hair past TBL, like I said, I just haven't seen it yet. Most people haven't...an that's why they can assume hair that long isn't healthy, unamaged and pretty.
I've had the pleasure of seeing some jaw dropping gorgeous hair past tail bone. You probably will too once you've been here long enough. You are so right in the idea that pictures don't tell the whole story. I've had the pleasure of seeing Airmide's hair in person, Dancingmegs, and Kleis' hair in person as well. Airmide's is to her knees, Dancingmegs and Kleis are roughly classic.

[Zopheya]

This is a really interesting thread. I find it fascinating that there are two completely opposite associations with long hair: on one hand, wild, "crazy" and unkempt; and on the other hand (at least for women), fairy-tale, romantic princess, goddess images. It's funny that little girls are raised to associate beauty WITH long hair, and when they get older, to associate short hair with youth. I guess that's tied into the association between long hair and youth - long hair for youth and only for youth. Which brings me to my next point.

I am so baffled by the concept that really short hair makes women look younger. Granted, this might be the case during a certain window of age, e.g. mid 30s/early 40s, but like some of you have mentioned on other threads, I think that really short hair actually makes women look older. I've increasingly started to notice just how many older women sport that typical "old lady" hairstyle: almost a boy-cut and usually very teased. In my opinion, not only does it look commercialized and processed, but it is sad because it indicates conformity to social norms regardless of whether that norm is actually more attractive, or what the person actually wants.

Maybe the association between short hair and youthful appearance (after a certain age) exists because of the relationship between long hair and breeding/sexuality. Like some of you mentioned, once a woman has passed her "breeding age" she is expected to be demure and modest - thus, long hair may be associated with brazenness, etc. etc. In other words, people confusedly associate short hair with a youthful appearance, when in truth the deeper reasons for the association are biological and moral - not aesthetic.

Well, this post is much longer than intended but to conclude, I commend everyone on this site who is brave and individualistic enough to have long hair. It seems to me that, more and more, people are so inundated with commercial images of socially accepted beauty (we are conditioned to, literally, "buy into" modern culture) that they don't even know what they themselves find sensual.

[Zopheya]

...and damn it, what's wrong with being an elf-princess?! :)

Funny, I had an opposite experience. I remember two girls in my classroom whose hair I found so beautiful and would wish for myself. One, in elementary school, had tailbone length red hair. The other, in middle school, had classic length, natural blond hair - very thick. I loved her hair precisely BECAUSE I thought it was fairy-tale and princess-like. The romantic, fantasy association is exactly one of the reasons why I do love long hair.

[florenonite]

I don't like hair past tailbone lenght and I'm going to tell why. Maybe this is what some other people think about long hair too. I have never seen really long hair that didn't look dry, brittle at the ends, old and generally "worn out". Hair that long has to be really well taken cared of and while I do think it is possible, I haven't seen it yet. Pictures are one thing, real life experience is quite another. It's very hard to achieve impressive lenghts with regular trims-and I do believe wholeheartedly that long hair needs regular trims to remain split free. I see every split end possible; I can't be tricked lol. I apologise if there are memebers with perfect hair past TBL, like I said, I just haven't seen it yet. Most people haven't...an that's why they can assume hair that long isn't healthy, unamaged and pretty.

I know you stated this as your belief, not as fact, but in most cases trims do little for split ends. I do prefer trimming to depete my hair's split end population rather than S&Ding (far more effective), because I find the latter tedious and it hurts my eyes. That said, S&D is better because splits can be found throughout the length, rather than merely at the ends.

And I don't think anyone's hair is split end free beyond about shoulder-length. I've been growing out my fringe for several months and it's about chin-length. It doesn't appear to have any splits, but my layers that are just below APL do, and they were just cut a fortnight ago. You can diminish the split ends to the point where they're not noticeable, but unless you're very careful with your hair and very lucky, you're unlikely to have hair without split ends unless it's short.

[Flynn]

I know you stated this as your belief, not as fact, but in most cases trims do little for split ends. I do prefer trimming to depete my hair's split end population rather than S&Ding (far more effective), because I find the latter tedious and it hurts my eyes. That said, S&D is better because splits can be found throughout the length, rather than merely at the ends.

And I don't think anyone's hair is split end free beyond about shoulder-length. I've been growing out my fringe for several months and it's about chin-length. It doesn't appear to have any splits, but my layers that are just below APL do, and they were just cut a fortnight ago. You can diminish the split ends to the point where they're not noticeable, but unless you're very careful with your hair and very lucky, you're unlikely to have hair without split ends unless it's short.

I don't think any hair is split-end-free, full stop. Even DBF's neatly trimmed and groomed beard gets split ends.

[florenonite]

I don't think any hair is split-end-free, full stop. Even DBF's neatly trimmed and groomed beard gets split ends.

I was originally going to say that I don't think hair can be split-end free, but my fringe, which I haven't trimmed in months, has no split ends (I've checked), and I would have thought it would be subject to a lot of mechanical damage. I suppose I'm just lucky that that small section of my hair isn't damaged :shrug:

[Beatnik Guy]

I apologise if there are memebers with perfect hair past TBL, like I said, I just haven't seen it yet.
Stick around. I could make a long list --- Hairstorm, Lady Godiva, Heidi W, Denise, Countess DeJager, Alba-NY, angelic, Dianyla....and that's just off the top of my head now. :cheese:

I don't think any hair is split-end-free, full stop. Even DBF's neatly trimmed and groomed beard gets split ends.
Not without shaving your head, no. Is this a problem -- no. :wink:

[rhubarbarin]

I can spend an hour looking through my hair and only find 2-3 split ends. I also don't get tangles. I do get white dots, and breakage. Everyone's different I guess.

[Bellalalala]

Yes, hair is a body part which can be separated from the body, and is therefore bound in kinds of taboos.


I'll admit too, that when I was a surly, insecure teenager caught up in a lot of surly and insecure teenage politics, I remember looking at a girl wearing her knee-length hair down and thinking, who does she think she is? An elf princess?

^^^^I can't take credit for starting the elf princess theme

[KaasKnot]

There was a lot of discussion about long hair being a symbol of sexuality for women, and why that was seen as negative--does the same apply for men? Can it be a symbol of sexuality for them, and thus inappropriate in "proper" society? Or is it just because a man with long hair is dabbling in "women stuff?" <--why is that considered bad, if women can wear pants and short hair? Reverse double-standard? (sorry, lots of questions.)

I want to be an elf princess! Please to hand over Legolas, thanks. :eyebrows:

[juliaxena]

hahaha sorry, I have to ask - is your friend able to get her clothes out of the way to use the toilet?


I've had the pleasure of seeing some jaw dropping gorgeous hair past tail bone. You probably will too once you've been here long enough. You are so right in the idea that pictures don't tell the whole story. I've had the pleasure of seeing Airmide's hair in person, Dancingmegs, and Kleis' hair in person as well. Airmide's is to her knees, Dancingmegs and Kleis are roughly classic.


Well I'm looking forward to seeing it then. But I honestly haven't so far. True, I didn't try very hard. Will check those later. Nowxisxforever posted a link to a pic. Does everybody see that hair as perfect? Because I really don't, I'm very sorry, but those ends look crunchy to me. But I guess I'm obssesed with the way ends look. When I had to cut my hair to my ear I already knew I want it long again. Right now I'm literally suffereing because my ends are so uneven. There's thousands of layers in them, however I have no splits and I didn't have them at BSL either. Maybe I am lucky. But I did trim my hair every month at that time. I think a lot of people will think very long hair is split and damaged by default, hence the prejudice.

[Flynn]

There was a lot of discussion about long hair being a symbol of sexuality for women, and why that was seen as negative--does the same apply for men? Can it be a symbol of sexuality for them, and thus inappropriate in "proper" society? Or is it just because a man with long hair is dabbling in "women stuff?" <--why is that considered bad, if women can wear pants and short hair? Reverse double-standard? (sorry, lots of questions.)

I want to be an elf princess! Please to hand over Legolas, thanks. :eyebrows:

Everything you say is true.

It is all stupid.

[Toadstool]

Oh bother now I want to be an elf princess too, but I've never seen one with grey roots!!

[Flynn]

Oh bother now I want to be an elf princess too, but I've never seen one with grey roots!!

Just 'cause you haven't seen one...

[Kleis]

Well I'm looking forward to seeing it then. But I honestly haven't so far. True, I didn't try very hard. Will check those later. Nowxisxforever posted a link to a pic. Does everybody see that hair as perfect? Because I really don't, I'm very sorry, but those ends look crunchy to me. But I guess I'm obssesed with the way ends look. When I had to cut my hair to my ear I already knew I want it long again. Right now I'm literally suffereing because my ends are so uneven. There's thousands of layers in them, however I have no splits and I didn't have them at BSL either. Maybe I am lucky. But I did trim my hair every month at that time. I think a lot of people will think very long hair is split and damaged by default, hence the prejudice.

But why does long hair have to be perfect? Considering lots of short hair is far from perfect, as well. I get your point, but "less than perfect" usually doesn't lead to prejudice, or we'd all have a much more miserable time stepping out the front door every day with less than perfect skin, clothes, cars, jobs, relationships, etc. :shrug:

I think it's much simpler, as someone pointed out earlier. People mock those who are outliers. If you are outside the bell curve in appearance (or habits, etc), you will be mocked--often by those who try to justify it so thinly as, "It's not perfect."

[Melisande]

Just for the record: my hair is far from perfect, but I've never seen a split end. Not even one. It is not a law of nature that long hair means split ends and damage. I'm afraid I jinxed it now but... I really check my hair for splits, and there are none.

[RancheroTheBee]

There was a lot of discussion about long hair being a symbol of sexuality for women, and why that was seen as negative--does the same apply for men? Can it be a symbol of sexuality for them, and thus inappropriate in "proper" society? Or is it just because a man with long hair is dabbling in "women stuff?" <--why is that considered bad, if women can wear pants and short hair? Reverse double-standard? (sorry, lots of questions.)

I want to be an elf princess! Please to hand over Legolas, thanks. :eyebrows:

Save some for me? :grin:

I totally agree, as well. I think maybe men aren't "supposed" to display symbols of sexuality in a lot of ways, especially one that requires any amount of upkeep. That would be ever so unmanly. :rolleyes: Personally, and I think quite a few of you agree, I believe that long hair on a man is growl-level sexy.


Well I'm looking forward to seeing it then. But I honestly haven't so far. True, I didn't try very hard. Will check those later. Nowxisxforever posted a link to a pic. Does everybody see that hair as perfect? Because I really don't, I'm very sorry, but those ends look crunchy to me. But I guess I'm obssesed with the way ends look. When I had to cut my hair to my ear I already knew I want it long again. Right now I'm literally suffereing because my ends are so uneven. There's thousands of layers in them, however I have no splits and I didn't have them at BSL either. Maybe I am lucky. But I did trim my hair every month at that time. I think a lot of people will think very long hair is split and damaged by default, hence the prejudice.

I'm not trying to get snarky with you, but I really have no idea what you're talking about. I'm sure JJLongHair* has a split or two, especially considering she colors her hair, but at that length, her hair is amazingly well-taken care of.

And many of our members maintain tailbone length hair that is in great condition, as it has been mentioned. To expect zero splits, I believe, is being a little too critical. I know you mentioned that you feel obsessed over the state of your own hair, and that's fine, but to criticize the state of other people's hair when you admit that you haven't even really investigated it kind of smacks of projection to me.

I'm not trying to attack you or anything, by the way. I do, however, feel the need to express my own opinion, which includes the need to defend the members who have extra-long hair from the assumption that their hair must be scraggly or poorly kempt simply by virtue of its length.

[LittleOrca]

(Snip!)


I'm not trying to get snarky with you, but I really have no idea what you're talking about. I'm sure JJLongHair* has a split or two, especially considering she colors her hair, but at that length, her hair is amazingly well-taken care of.
.....
I'm not trying to attack you or anything, by the way. I do, however, feel the need to express my own opinion, which includes the need to defend the members who have extra-long hair from the assumption that their hair must be scraggly or poorly kempt simply by virtue of its length.

I agree whole heartedly. :)

I don't think there is much I can add to this topic seeing as most of my points I had have already been made.

Also, as a semi-hijack, there is nothing wrong with witches. :D http://yoursmiles.org/hsmile/mystic/h0541.gif

[juliaxena]

I'm not trying to get snarky with you, but I really have no idea what you're talking about. I'm sure JJLongHair* has a split or two, especially considering she colors her hair, but at that length, her hair is amazingly well-taken care of.




I'm sorry, I just see it differently. I could be wrong but I would not be and am not any gentler to myself. Maybe I expect too much, but I just honestly do see it that way. Maybe some other people do too. I really think this could be the deal. Not just because I think so, I've talked to other people about it, I think they don't mean any harm, it's just what they are taught. I've even heard my grandma say something like that once. I can't help myself, can't get past the mental block here. It's a harsh world, it's how many people are brought up. A tiny bit of cellulite is seen as a disaster...you get the point. Perhaps that's why I see it that way. I'm feeling bad and guilty about it.

[Alun]

I think there is a 'norm' for hair length, which is about shoulder length for women and about collar length for men, and varies according to age too, and anyone who strays far from that is at risk of being criticised by those who value conformity. OTOH, I couldn't give a rat's patootie what conformists think anyway. I've never been one.

Even men who shave their heads are seen as too far below the norm, despite current fashions. Well, I don't like shaved heads anyway, but that's because I grew up associating them with violence, so that's my particular hangup.

I also think that long hair is a form of sexual display, although many people have it for other reasons. This explains the prejudice against long hair on older women.

The same thing also explains the prejudice against long hair on men of all ages, but only as part of a larger prejudice against sexual display by men in any form, which is a form of prejudice that certainly exists, but definitely hasn't existed during all periods in history, which is hard to explain. It is easy to see, though, that in periods when men dressed flamboyantly, it was also common for men to have long hair.

Why we have been going through a period when men have mostly dressed so as to be invisible is a mystery to me, and also a major pain in the posterior, because it isn't how I like to dress. If I could find a pair of men's trousers in the shops in bright red, I would actually wear them, for example. However, most modern men seem to want to wear clothes that cause them to virtually vanish, and I don't know why. As a male myself, I feel I ought to have some insight into that, but I don't.

As for the one-way prejudice that women can dress in a trousers and have short hair, but not vicea versa, I think this is partly related to sexual display, but also to the perception that males adopting 'feminine' styles are reducing their status and vicea versa, which IMHO is bull. Male long hair is still a lot more accepted than manskirts, though. The latter can be seen at rennfests, etc., but not on guys doing their shopping at the mall, for example. I guess the thing is with long hair, once you have it, it goes where you go, but it's still socially 'easier' to put on what people expect to see you wearing in the particular setting that you are in.

[juliaxena]

I'm so sorry about my posts in this topic. Please just everybody know that I just tryed to be honest, even if I turned out to be a not so nice person. It actually was not easy to tell how I felt, because I knew how I would turn out to be. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe other people are prejudiced for other reasons, I just tryed to make a contribution since this is a serious topic, trying to get to the bottom of things. It's really a confession, something you may not get from others. I do hope I'm wrong and please just go on living as if you never heard about what I said. My opinion is just not important, like I said in the post about men and long hair. And I do respect everybody's choices.

[prittykitty]

I think the people who rebel against long hair are simply jealous. A short haired person will be the first one to tell a long haired person to get a haircut. I remember working at a bar and casino during my short stay in Seattle. A woman walked in that had hair down to her knees. I can remember the short haired girl that worked in the money booth telling other workers that the woman with the long hair should get her hair cut to a decent length. I spoke up and told the short haired girl how beautiful that woman's hair was and that if mine were that long I would not cut it either.

My husbands family keeps telling him to get his hair cut. He has shoulder length dishwater blond hair that he wears in a sort of 70's style. In other words it's really not considered all that long. He also has a short beard to match. Yes, looks very 70ish. Still, every time we see his very short haired brother and dad, they always make a comment on how he should get a real haircut. I always speak up and tell them that what he has "IS" a real haircut and that it looks good on him.

I don't know how anyone could say that long hair is a sign of mental illness and being dirty. Take a look at Crystal Gayle for example. She has very long hair and is a very talented singer and is a beautiful woman. I would hardly say that she is dirty. As far as mentally ill, well I have never heard that she was.

I feel that people who say negative things about people with long hair are no different than an over weight person telling a skinny person that they need to put on some weight. It's called jealousy.

[florenonite]

There was a lot of discussion about long hair being a symbol of sexuality for women, and why that was seen as negative--does the same apply for men? Can it be a symbol of sexuality for them, and thus inappropriate in "proper" society? Or is it just because a man with long hair is dabbling in "women stuff?" <--why is that considered bad, if women can wear pants and short hair? Reverse double-standard? (sorry, lots of questions.)

I want to be an elf princess! Please to hand over Legolas, thanks. :eyebrows:

Because, even though people claim otherwise, men are still seen as superior to women, and therefore a woman, in dressing in a "masculine" manner, is striving to improve herself whilst a man, in dressing in a "feminine" manner, is degrading himself. Sexism works both ways, I'm afraid.


I think the people who rebel against long hair are simply jealous. A short haired person will be the first one to tell a long haired person to get a haircut. I remember working at a bar and casino during my short stay in Seattle. A woman walked in that had hair down to her knees. I can remember the short haired girl that worked in the money booth telling other workers that the woman with the long hair should get her hair cut to a decent length. I spoke up and told the short haired girl how beautiful that woman's hair was and that if mine were that long I would not cut it either.

<snip>

I feel that people who say negative things about people with long hair are no different than an over weight person telling a skinny person that they need to put on some weight. It's called jealousy.

I don't think this is true. Yes, some people might be envious (jealousy being fear of losing something you have rather than wanting what someone else has. Damn you Nightshade for making me pedantic about this!) of long hair, if they don't think they can attain it themselves, however there are others who genuinely dislike it. Calling it envy just ignores the truth behind it, which is that some of the critics actually dislike it.

For instance, until joining LHC I didn't like hair below about hip-length. I wasn't envious, I just thought the hair looked disproportionate to the wearer. I now think this is just because I wasn't used to seeing people with very long hair so the proportions looked off, but now that I've seen it more often the proportions are more aesthetically-pleasing to me. I think, then, that some of the prejudice against long hair is really just because the hair looks a bit "odd", because it's different from what we're used to. Indeed, I saw a woman on a plane once with ankle-length hair and thought "she should get that cut". It wasn't envy, it was me thinking her hair didn't look good. In retrospect, I think it was because my mum once mentioned she thought someone with really long hair should cut it, so I think to an extent the prejudice against long hair is a learned behaviour, from both society and parents.

Even now that I'm committed to growing my hair, I do not want it very long. I've flirted with the idea of classic, but don't think I will ever grow below that. Hence, if I were to say that I thought a woman with very long hair would look better with it shorter (which I wouldn't, because most of the very long hair I've seen is truly stunning, besides which I don't really care how others look as long as they're happy), I would not be speaking from envy, but because I genuinely thought it looked better that way.

[Heavenly Locks]

I really think (one of the reasons among MANY) is because when someone goes 'against the grain' concerning their choices...people get mad that they didn't make that choice. "What do you MEAN I don't have to get haircuts and buy products and and and...!!"

It goes for lots of things like body condition (thick or thin) clothing (funky & unique) and even lifestyle (Lots of kids, no kids, different relationships.)

That whole bell curve normal BS. LOL

[juliaxena]

I feel that people who say negative things about people with long hair are no different than an over weight person telling a skinny person that they need to put on some weight. It's called jealousy.

That is not a good comparison because being skinny is the norm nowadays, not being overweight. Perhaps if a skinny person told an overweight one to lose weight it would compare. I really don't think it's jelousy. Some people just don't like long hair. Same as you prefer long hair, they prefer shorter hair.

[Toadstool]

I'm so sorry about my posts in this topic. Please just everybody know that I just tryed to be honest, even if I turned out to be a not so nice person. It actually was not easy to tell how I felt, because I knew how I would turn out to be. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe other people are prejudiced for other reasons, I just tryed to make a contribution since this is a serious topic, trying to get to the bottom of things. It's really a confession, something you may not get from others. I do hope I'm wrong and please just go on living as if you never heard about what I said. My opinion is just not important, like I said in the post about men and long hair. And I do respect everybody's choices.

Hey don't beat yourself up! You are still a nice person even if you don't like super long hair.
As you said, you were honest. That's a good quality. You haven't murdered anyone :)

[Melisande]

Juliaxena, sorry, I think nobody here wanted to make you feel uncomfortable. You are as entitled to your opinion as anybody else, and it's nice to have a minority opinion represented here. It's not so easy to come with a minority opinion, so all credit to you.

About the perfectionism - I find it toxic and it sets you up for many hours of wasted energy and heartbreak and shredded self confidence for nothing. Bodies change, even if you are today sure anybody else's will but yours won't. We all get wrinkles, our bodies undergo changes with pregnancy, birth and postpartum, and if you don't have children, then your body will still change. Unrealistic expectations (having the body of a 17 years old forever, and the face, too) serve no other purpose but to keep women preoccupied with their looks in a hopeless struggle against time, when they should be doing more useful and happier things. This is my opinion, and you can imagine that it is not a theoretical construct from a book but the experience of looking at my life and changing looks and trying to understand why it makes me unhappy, and how can I come to terms with it. And I'm really improving in self acceptance. Yeah for self acceptance!

So I don't like to see perfectionism. Not in housework (your perfect home is spotless exactly until the first living being at home begins to move a toe), not at work (perfectionists drive everyone crazy with their unceasing demands) and not in relationships (nobody is Humphrey Bogart 24/7, I'm sure even Bogie himself was sometimes not). Perfectionism is self-inflicted torture. My motto is: do your very very best - and then LET GO.

The same is true about hair. Your hair is short still, and if you want to let it grow, there may be moments where it's less than perfect. If you insist on looking perfect every day, maybe long hair is not for you, because the longhair journey includes less than perfect stages. It's a longtime plan, not a shorttime action.

And about judging others - maybe try to see the beauty in not-so-perfect things, too. The cruelty towards ourselves and others is unhealthy and unkind. Of course you can have your opinion about fairy tale ends and really unkempt hair doesn't look nice to anyone - but opening the spectrum of the beautiful gives a whole new set of experiences.

I learned that when I learned to draw. All of a sudden I discovered that there are no ugly faces. In every face, in every body, there are wonderful lines of character, life and feelings. Everybody has a unique landscape between their nose and their upper lips. It's a wondrous experience. I find it enhanced my enjoyment in life. I don't judge (and never did) according to women's magazine titles. I see beauty in asymmetric, old, plain or overlooked features - as soon as I see them with my painterly eye. It's a good exercise.

And yet - it's absolutely okay that your standards of beauty are yours and more stringent than mine, and more closely oriented at the standards society prescribes.

[Unzadi]

Oh bother now I want to be an elf princess too, but I've never seen one with grey roots!!

Maybe silver crowns are reserved for elven queens?

Long live the elf princess army!

[juliaxena]

Juliaxena, sorry, I think nobody here wanted to make you feel uncomfortable. You are as entitled to your opinion as anybody else, and it's nice to have a minority opinion represented here. It's not so easy to come with a minority opinion, so all credit to you.




Nobody made me feel uncomfortable, it's not that. I just felt I needed to explain why I wrote all I wrote, because I didn't want to hurt anyone. I thank you though, I feel better knowing you guys don't hate me now.

[KiwiLiz]

Ok here's my take on it -

Long, long, long hair is equivalent to long, long, long nails:
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l226/NorthernXposure/fingernails.jpg

What is YOUR reaction to the above picture? You'd probably want to wisk that woman right away to get a manicure, wouldn't you?

My reaction is... whoa, how does she do anything with those? My second look reaction is... bahaha look at the guy in the background!

I haven't read the whole thread, but had any one pointed that out yet?


That is not a good comparison because being skinny is the norm nowadays, not being overweight. Perhaps if a skinny person told an overweight one to lose weight it would compare. I really don't think it's jelousy. Some people just don't like long hair. Same as you prefer long hair, they prefer shorter hair.
No it's not jealousy... it's envy. Sorry, I just had to :P

I think the main problem is that too many people have verbal diarrhea, we get taught how we we're entitled to our opinions (but forget that no one is obligate to listen to them, ha) and how we need to express our selves, and this often ends up being done at the expense of others. Some people just HAVE TO say something, they just HAVE TO make sure every one else knows what they think... even if the issue has nothing to do with them... I mean really, unless I'm getting my hair in some one's food, or something like that, how does it concern any one else?

[Fethenwen]

I really don't think it's jelousy. Some people just don't like long hair. Same as you prefer long hair, they prefer shorter hair.

That's a good point. I don't think it's jealousy either, well in some cases perhaps.
But still I think there is a difference in reactions some people have against long hair vs short hair. Some people react with a:"Yikes! That is a lot of hair!" when they see really long hair.
But I don't think people with long hair react with a:"Yikes! Her hair is short!"
It just is more normal to have short hair :shrug:

[Nightshade]

I don't think this is true. Yes, some people might be envious (jealousy being fear of losing something you have rather than wanting what someone else has. Damn you Nightshade for making me pedantic about this!) of long hair, if they don't think they can attain it themselves, however there are others who genuinely dislike it. Calling it envy just ignores the truth behind it, which is that some of the critics actually dislike it.

:spitting: You're welcome :lol:

If I remember right, MPB had an AWESOME post about all this... let me see if I can't dig it up. A great point was that long hair is a super-stimulus, and that like it or hate it, you're going to get a stronger than normal reaction because of it.

AHa, here it is. It's well worth the read.

Sometimes it's not jealousy (looong rant) (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=22917)

[HildeMV]

What I consider to be long hair is waist and below.

[rhubarbarin]

Sometimes it is envy, but usually not I think. If we're talking about 'long hair' by the common definition, that's achievable by nearly everyone, although there might be snark from some people because they are envious of the attention long-hairs might get. When we're talking about super-lengths, or longer hair on men (both of which are seen as 'fringe' styles by average people) someone thinking it's 'gross' has nothing to do with them wanting it for themselves!

My mom doesn't like long hair, and is especially negative about mothers and women over a certain age having it. She's never had hair longer than shoulder her whole life, she likes short hair on herself and prefers it on other people as well.

[Merewen]

Oh bother now I want to be an elf princess too, but I've never seen one with grey roots!!

I'm gonna say that grey roots elevate you to elven queen.

[KaasKnot]

Oh bother now I want to be an elf princess too, but I've never seen one with grey roots!!

Yeah, they probably succumb to societal pressure and dye them.

[Amara]

Ah man, I just found this one :rolleyes::

It's from the site 'people of wallmart' (http://***************.com/?paged=6.)

http://***************.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/169.jpg

And the description goes:

"I guess she just kinda puts it to the side when she uses the bathroom. But then it would still probably hit the floor and that’s gross, especially in public. So maybe she just balls it up and holds it. But then what does she do with it while she wipes? Any logical input would be greatly appreciated here.
Louisiana"

Do people really feel this way about extremely long hair?

HAHAH! That's so funny! And you know whoever wrote this has seen buns/braids etc every day of their lives... good lord. Use your brain!

[Heidi_234]

Sometimes it's not jealousy (looong rant) (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=22917)
I never thought people who seem to repulsed by long hair are envious. Whenever I read someone on the boards say "they're just envious" in replay to bad comment post, I always thought "Yeah yeah, that is what they need to say to themselves to feel better". That just doesn't make any sense. Not everybody is so darn obsessed with their (and others) hair like we LHCers are, and therefore they just can't be envious of something they don't care as much. :nono:

I mean - yeah, let's pretend it's us against the rest of the world. :crazyq: Great, now back to reality please.

[Tess2319]

I have nothing to add - just wanted to say I'm enjoying the repartee... :drama:

[shadowclaw]

Nightshade - thanks for the link. It was a really good read. I think it's sad that there are people out there who believe that everyone has to fit the social norm and will make a lot of effort to reel back in someone who's left the mainstream. Why can't we all just respect each other's opinions and realize that everyone doesn't have to be the same? If I were to pick the number one reason why people don't like long hair, that would probably be it - that they are trying to bring longhairs back into the mainstream, where it's safe.

It's also easier to understand how anyone could be freaked out/grossed out by long hair when comparing it to super-long nails, like in the picture Shiva posted. I don't like those nails at all, and would definitely be shocked if I saw it in person. Although they are also very intriguing in a way. Never the less, the comparison definitely gives me a better perspective on why someone would be grossed out by my hair, even if I find it beautiful.

[GlennaGirl]

I'm sorry, I just see it differently. I could be wrong but I would not be and am not any gentler to myself. Maybe I expect too much, but I just honestly do see it that way. Maybe some other people do too. I really think this could be the deal. Not just because I think so, I've talked to other people about it, I think they don't mean any harm, it's just what they are taught. I've even heard my grandma say something like that once. I can't help myself, can't get past the mental block here. It's a harsh world, it's how many people are brought up. A tiny bit of cellulite is seen as a disaster...you get the point. Perhaps that's why I see it that way. I'm feeling bad and guilty about it.

Folks, I have to say it. How or why is this "reason" less legitimate than saying there's some deep-seated psychological or entrenched societal reason?

This poster is being honest.

Do we really want to investigate the "why" here? Or do we just want to pick and choose which answers we're comfortable with?

Not long ago a poster on here "tricked" us by saying she'd cut her hair. It was actually a wig. Correct me if I'm misstating this but I thought it was a lighthearted experiment in whether people would say the hair looked good no matter what, just to be nice. Some people obviously didn't like the look, but said they did, and ended up embarrassed. But honesty also gets slapped, if that honesty doesn't sound acceptable. I don't see why this poster has to defend her views on not liking the look of TB hair. She doesn't like it. :shrug:

How is all our "guessing"--from people who don't dislike very long hair--more accurate than the honest assessment of someone who does dislike very long hair?

We may not like every answer. It may annoy us, make us sad...make us angry...whatever. But that doesn't mean that the person's comment had no legitimacy. It just means we don't like it.

I can't see trying to shout this person down until she can't think of a reason why she doesn't like the look of very long hair. In the end, she still won't like it. And those who "won" this argument will feel better. And meanwhile the "prejudice" mentioned in the OP will still exist, so where exactly have we gotten?

I say let this person speak her piece without trying to pinpoint-and-semantic-and-shame her down into submission until we get the answer we'd rather hear.

[Kleis]

I say let this person speak her piece without trying to pinpoint-and-semantic-and-shame her down into submission until we get the answer we'd rather hear.

?? We've absolutely let her speak. I fail to see why including her points in the conversation and debate is not allowing her to have an opinion.

[GlennaGirl]

?? We've absolutely let her speak. I fail to see why including her points in the conversation and debate is not allowing her to have an opinion.

Of course it's allowing her to have her opinion...if she's brave enough to stand up and be "the only one" in a certain case. I didn't want to let her stand up and be the only one, because frankly, I would place bets that there are others here who don't always like the look of every single type of very long hair on this site or otherwise, but don't wish to say anything and have people come down on him or her en masse.

Also, the "counterpoints" she's receiving are pretty obviously aimed at proving she is wrong or that her observations and feelings have no basis in reality, not at getting a better understanding of why some people just don't like very long hair.

ETA: For example, she thinks fairytale ends look scraggly. No, that's not okay, because the hair is healthy, the argument goes. She thinks pictures can be different from real life. She is immediately brought to task for saying people fake the quality of their hair in pictures--which she didn't. She says all the long hair she's seen in real life looked dry on the ends; she's being told that...well, that she's just wrong about what she saw, I guess. She says she doesn't like the dyed long blonde hair that a link was placed here to; it looks damaged to her. She's told it can't possibly look damaged. She says she doesn't like the look of splits. She's told everyone has splits and that she must be insisting longhairs be perfect--an exaggeration. And so on.

I know exactly what she's saying. As many counterpoints as she received, I am saying her ideas are legitimate no matter how many people argue specifically with her, which, as you can see by looking back through the posts on this thread, rather dominates.


Is that being "allowed" to have an opinion? Technically, yes.

[Kleis]

Of course it's allowing her to have her opinion...if she's brave enough to stand up and be "the only one" in a certain case. I didn't want to let her stand up and be the only one, because frankly, I would place bets that there are others here who don't always like the look of every single type of very long hair on this site or otherwise, but don't wish to say anything and have people come down on him or her en masse.

Also, the "counterpoints" she's receiving are pretty obviously aimed at proving she is wrong, not at getting a better understanding of why some people just don't like very long hair.

I know exactly what she's saying. As many counterpoints as she received, I am saying her ideas are legitimate no matter how many people argue specifically with her, which, as you can see by looking back through the posts on this thread, rather dominates.

And I think we can all figure out that her answer was unpopular, and that she is now vollying a whole host of "arguments"...simply for having her own opinion.

Is that being "allowed" to have an opinion? Technically, yes.


:shrug: If someone comes onto a long hair board and says long hair comes under fire because it's not perfect, then you gotta expect a response. Sorry if this seems inappropriate to you, but it's perfectly normal. Nor has anyone been hostile... I think it's fair to say that our responses are attempts to understand better where she's coming from.

[florenonite]

:spitting: You're welcome :lol:

If I remember right, MPB had an AWESOME post about all this... let me see if I can't dig it up. A great point was that long hair is a super-stimulus, and that like it or hate it, you're going to get a stronger than normal reaction because of it.

AHa, here it is. It's well worth the read.

Sometimes it's not jealousy (looong rant) (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=22917)

I knew someone had posted a long post about this before, but I couldn't remember who or when. Thank you!

[GlennaGirl]

:shrug: If someone comes onto a long hair board and says long hair comes under fire because it's not perfect, then you gotta expect a response. Sorry if this seems inappropriate to you, but it's perfectly normal. Nor has anyone been hostile... I think it's fair to say that our responses are attempts to understand better where she's coming from.

So she deserved what she got for being honest? ;) (Please note that she did NOT say long hair had to be perfect until she was argued down to "well...it looks like it has split ends", which was immediately exaggerated into "well then, you must demand perfect hair on long hairs but not short"--again, something she didn't say; she was trying to come up with specifics and that's what she came up with. She said at first that it looked dry, damaged, etc. She didn't say it looked like it has a few splits here and there and that such a thing was totally acceptable.)

In response to the area I quoted above: It's no more inappropriate to me, than deliberately asking for fire by posting a question that could potentially have negative answers, then denying the negative answers and the person who posed them.

We differ on your last sentence and I addressed that specifically in my long post...I don't believe they are attempts to understand anything better. They're pretty much all "no, you can't be right about that"-based rather than "Wow, so it's because of her real-life experiences". :) Sorry; our opinions here differ.

Who here so far has accepted that it's possible to just not like the look of fairytale ends, etc. and who has accepted that it's possible a person has only come across damaged very-long hair? (shrug) I don't see a one. Well, okay. Me. :P Again, this is why I definitely don't see it as an investigation toward a better understanding. If everyone here wanted to understand the OP's POV, they'd say, "Oh, she explained it...she's only seen damaged hair IRL, and the long hair on this site doesn't appeal to her either."

[Kleis]

It's no more inappropriate to me, than deliberately asking for fire by posting a question that could potentially have negative answers, then denying the negative answers and the person who posed them.

With all due respect, I think you're overthinking this. A possibility for prejudice was introduced and people responded, mostly by disagreeing. This happens.

Most of us went on to suggest reasons that are more clear to us, as long hairs, where the prejudice comes from. Instead of people being repulsed by our lack of perfection, it's more likely to be uncomfortable by someone outside social norms. If you focus more on the debate and less on trying to make a poster into a victim, instead of a welcome participant in an interesting discussion, you might see that. I hope.


We differ on your last sentence and I addressed that specifically in my long post...I don't believe they are attempts to understand anything better. They're pretty much all "no, you can't be right about that"-based rather than "Wow, so it's because of her real-life experiences". :) Sorry; our opinions here differ.

Speaking for myself, I was trying to dig into more what she meant, versus how she wrote it. :shrug: By my book, that's trying to understand even if I didn't flag it as such.

Look, we're all adults here (pretty much). If you post something controversial, you need to expect a challenge, or at least a response.

Now, can we please get back to the topic?

[GlennaGirl]

Instead of people being repulsed by our lack of perfection, it's more likely to be uncomfortable by someone outside social norms.

Why is it more likely? ;) I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion? Also, again, it's saying what the poster was repulsed by was a lack of perfection, when in fact she was pretty much "argued down" to asking if certain hair looked perfect, an exaggeration of her own. Again, semantics that end in the poster *sounding* condemning and wrong...even if she isn't. Just sayin'.

But we'll agree to disagree. I hear what you're saying, and I disagree. :) And you disagree with me; that's life!

Just to add: I'm not attempting a derail here. I very much am on topic; I'm explaining why I believe the OP's reasoning is sound and why seeking acceptable answers doesn't necessarily mean we're getting to the root of the original post.

As for posting something controversial, I'm not sure why, then, it's not controversial to say "Oh, I hate that fried, blown-out short stuff soccer moms wear" and for that matter, why it's not controversial to say there's a prejudice about long hair and to ask people to delve into various psyches and societal mores to find out why. (shrug) I'm not really understanding this but then again, I was originally taking what the poster said at face value; the long hair she's seen IRL was "old" and "worn out" looking. Well, I've seen that same hair IRL, frankly. How is that controversial? Look, if a question is asked with only a few acceptable answers, then it's the question that's controversial, not the answer.

I'm definitely on topic; I'm sorry you don't see it that way. Again, it's a case of agreeing to disagree.

[Tanuki]

Another point is that when a person is mentally ill, they tend to forgo taking care of their physical appearance. This can mean that nails are not cut, hair is not cut or styled and bathing is not done. While I'm sure most, if not all, here bath and take care to style their hair; the fact remains that this is a sign of mental illness. People can rarely attribute very long hair to a conscious decision

[Kleis]

Why is it more likely? ;) I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion? Also, again, it's saying what the poster was repulsed by was a lack of perfection, when in fact she was pretty much "argued down" to asking if certain hair looked perfect, an exaggeration of her own. Again, semantics that end in the poster *sounding* condemning and wrong...even if she isn't. Just sayin'.


The impossibility of perfection. 'Nuff said. I really am uninterested in battling semantics with you, either.

[GlennaGirl]

The impossibility of perfection. 'Nuff said. I really am uninterested in battling semantics with you, either.

And I explained how she sort of threw out "perfection" out there (from the way I'm reading it) after having her own views and words exaggerated at her. She sounded like she was exaggerating in return. Not trying to be argumentative and repetitive. But I do not feel you're hearing what I'm saying. Of course nobody thinks perfection is possible. I just don't see that being the main argument, but one that came eventually, and probably out of frustration.

I can't think of anything else to say on this subject so I'll just stick to my opinion, which is:

Yes. I too have seen terrible-looking long hair IRL. I've seen some hair on LHC, too, that really doesn't appeal to me. And I'm sure that in return, plenty of people have looked at my signature pic and said, "Oh give it up...that stringy stuff...just shave it, Gollum!" (Well, maybe not quite that.) What I have not seen IRL more than perhaps a handful of times is very very long, obviously very healthy hair.

Just haven't.

I've seen it here, because people here treat their hair very differently from convention, which usually involves potentially damaging actions. What can I say?

That's my opinion on the OP and on why some people dislike very long hair; because to them, what often happens with very long hair--fairytale-ing; faded color on ends as opposed to roots (this has always happened to me, anyway); and the age of the hair meaning it's simply been exposed to mechanical damage over a longer period of time--so yes, I can see people feeling that way when they look at certain very long hair.

I can also see them feeling that way when they see overprocessed short hair.

I don't see either as a prejudice but am not discounting that surely some of it is societal. Of course it is; but not all of it, and the existence of social ideas about hair doesn't negate simply thinking certain heads of hair look damaged...in my opinion and observation. ;)

[Toadstool]

Who here so far has accepted that it's possible to just not like the look of fairytale ends, etc. and who has accepted that it's possible a person has only come across damaged very-long hair? (shrug)

I intended it to come across in my post that I absolutely support her right to dislike fairytale ends, super long hair etc, and I'm sad if that didn't come across.

I myself don't like every head of long hair I see. I always imagined few people do.

[Angharad]

I haven't read all 13 pages of comments (so maybe a similar view has already been written), but in my view it is simple: when a person has something physical, that isn't what people should look like conformed to a narrowminded "normal" appearance, like for instance: red hair (don't get me wrong: I love it, but how many kids get bullied for it when they are little?), overweight, bad teeth, freckles,very little or very tall people (you can tell for yourself whatever "strange " things can be on a human body) and when you have very long hair it stands out and not everybody likes it.

I don't expect everybody to like it; may be some people will think it is gorgeous but, for example: my mother in law doesn't like my long hair and I am not disturbed by that. I haven't asked her why she doesn't like it, but she herself has short hair (had that all of her life) and that's what she's used to. People have a tendency to go for the usual because that is familiar and safe; it isn't logical to make a choice for the unknown so the majority of people stay in a safe area: in clothing, weight, hair, mainstream music, how their houses look, what to eat, wich restaurant to got to, etc.

I'm overweight: some people like the way my body looks and some people don't: I am used to that by now. So, why doesn't that go for (really) long hair as well?

I wished we lived in a world were all people were respected for the way they look, but we are far from that considering it starts already when we are kids and bullie a kid in our class that looks a little bit different.

[RancheroTheBee]

I never thought people who seem to repulsed by long hair are envious. Whenever I read someone on the boards say "they're just envious" in replay to bad comment post, I always thought "Yeah yeah, that is what they need to say to themselves to feel better". That just doesn't make any sense. Not everybody is so darn obsessed with their (and others) hair like we LHCers are, and therefore they just can't be envious of something they don't care as much. :nono:

I mean - yeah, let's pretend it's us against the rest of the world. :crazyq: Great, now back to reality please.

Good point. I know there are people who are envious of long hair, but they're usually a lot more tactful in expressing their opinion than say, someone who just dislikes long hair for whatever reason. If someone's envious, they're apt to say it, rather than be a complete jerk and suggest that you cut it all off.

[GlennaGirl]

I intended it to come across in my post that I absolutely support her right to dislike fairytale ends, super long hair etc, and I'm sad if that didn't come across.

I myself don't like every head of long hair I see. I always imagined few people do.

Oh, sorry, Toadstool.

[Melisande]

Glenna Girl, you definitely have a point. I didn't think about it because my perspective is already so warped ;-) that when I hear LONG HAIR I think automatically LHC hair. And I do know some long haired ladies (less men though) with very healthy tresses IRL.

But probably there are many people who don't. People who see long hair around them on people who don't take care of themselves and of their hair. This is so obvious but I didn't think about it.

And did I see ugly or repulsive long hair in my life? Oh yes I did. Hair is not automatically beautiful only because it's long. Even my preference for long hair shouldn't make me blind to the abominations I see sometimes on the street. Stringy, unkempt, unwashed long hair. So if this is what you know, then you don't like long hair in general.

Before I came to the boards, I didn't know there was a thing like fairytale ends. I admit I didn't think about them this or that way, but had my hair begun to fairytale, I would have cut it, I guess. I learned only here that fairytale ends are just normal ends with taper, ends that have grown to their terminal length. I didn't know all that before.

So I guess I shouldn't blame others for their prejudices. I have always liked long hair, but I don't like it automatically, either. And if the longest hair I ever saw had been the hair of KP in the class above me... well.............

PS: I meant it when I said: all credit to somebody who gives his honest opinion, even if in minority. And I also meant to say: perfectionism is toxic IMO but I respect the opinion of perfectionists, too. Respect always has to go both ways.

[Deborah]

Juliaxena,

I'm sorry you have had to endure so much criticism for stating a simple fact - your own opinion of long hair. I have always had long hair, but still I don't think all long hair I see is beautiful. Some of it is downright ragged looking to me.

You are perfectly entitled to your opinion, and also entitled to express it. It is a MINORITY view on this board, so like most other places, you are being attacked for being in the minority. Funny on a thread bemoaning the idea that WE longhairs are subject to attack for being in the minority....
__________________

As to the original question, I have never in my life had anyone suggest or even imply that I should cut my hair, and in real life I don't know anyone else who has faced this either, so I have a little trouble seeing any big, prevailing problem, or any general prejudice against long hair. I know some on this list have had people not like their long hair, but frankly, I think that attitude is pretty rare, at least with respect to women.

As to men, there are those who just don't like long hair on men for whatever reason (there are various reasons given by people), many who consider it effeminate, and others who take the Bible literally when it says that long hair is a glory to a woman, but a shame to a man. (I Cor. 11:14-15) These people are certainly the minority on this board, and some are a minority in the larger culture as well. Most of them don't hate anyone, they just think long hair on men is not good.

Many on this board don't like long hair on men for one reason or another. They usually remain quiet in order to avoid being trampled by the (on this list) majority.

[RancheroTheBee]

Juliaxena,

I'm sorry you have had to endure so much criticism for stating a simple fact - your own opinion of long hair. I have always had long hair, but still I don't think all long hair I see is beautiful. Some of it is downright ragged looking to me.

You are perfectly entitled to your opinion, and also entitled to express it. It is a MINORITY view on this board, so like most other places, you are being attacked for being in the minority. Funny on a thread bemoaning the idea that WE longhairs are subject to attack for being in the minority....


No-one here attacked her. I believe it was made very clear that while she is perfectly entitled to her opinion, everybody else also has the right to challenge it as they see fit. You also have the right to defend her as you see fit, but we did not attack her in any way.

And this thread was not started in order to bemoan anything, prejudice or otherwise. It was started to examine the reasons why some people feel that long hair is disliked or unpopular.

[Jason]

Many on this board don't like long hair on men for one reason or another. They usually remain quiet in order to avoid being trampled by the (on this list) majority.

Interesting. Do you have some way of knowing that many on this board don't like long hair on men?

[Euphony]

I think a lot of people will think very long hair is split and damaged by default, hence the prejudice.
I so agree here! I've seen a lot of long hair that many people think is pretty and all I can see is long hair, it's not pretty by default just because it's long. And these thoughts went through my head a lot in college (10 years ago) so very pre-LHC for me. I've always loved long, healthy hair - and IRL it is so very rare. I see a lot of cotton candy hair that is nearing bsl or any length past it.

I think there's only been once or maybe twice that I've seen extra long hair that didn't belong to an LHC'er that I actually thought was pretty, genuinely pretty. I'm a hair snob, even before LHC I've been a hair snob, it's sad - but true. hahaha I've even asked my hubby to let me know if my hair ever gets straggly looking on the ends - just in case I somehow miss it. He's totally agreed with that idea, he's of the same opinion I am, long healthy hair all the way to the tips or off goes how ever many inches it takes to make it healthy to the tips.

[juliaxena]

In all honestly, nobody atacked me (if they did, I'm sorry I didn't realise it, I'm blonde see lol). I see the replys as other members not agreeing with me which is perfectly OK. It didin't change my opinion though and I do think nobody wanted to either. I didn't try to imply I'm a perfectionist, I'm sorry that was understood that way, it rather meant that my standards regaring hair seem to be much higher than standards of the rest.

[Deborah]

Interesting. Do you have some way of knowing that many on this board don't like long hair on men?


Sure. In the current polls board, there is a poll on whether women prefer long or short hair on men. In just the first couple of pages I counted over 20 who preferred short hair on men. And that's just that poll, those couple of pages, and just those who bothered to respond, and on a board which has a sharp prejudice in favor of long hair. It's a lot of women.

[Jason]

Sure. In the current polls board, there is a poll on whether women prefer long or short hair on men. In just the first couple of pages I counted over 20 who preferred short hair on men. And that's just that poll, those couple of pages, and just those who bothered to respond, and on a board which has a sharp prejudice in favor of long hair. It's a lot of women.

You are either grossly exaggerating things or you just can't count. There were 8 women in the first 5 pages (including you) who categorically didn't like long hair on men. Name 20 on the first 2 pages who flat-out don't like long hair on any men. Name them.

What about those who love long hair on men and who didn't bother to respond? Your definition of a lot is certainly arbitrary to say the least.

[WaimeaWahine]

As for men, as long as their overall hygiene is good then I put all my focus on personality. I really try to bypass attraction based solely on appearance and strive for what matters.

I think people often forget that marketing is politically and morally motivated. The financial side is just one aspect. If you want to change things like people's attitudes then you have to challenge them. Express yourself and make people think.

Regarding the statement in the OP about mental illness and long hair - a lot of times mentally ill people end up homeless and grooming aids are not readily accessible to them. Also, depression and other mental health issues may cause a person to neglect their appearance.

I saw 3 women with waist length hair out jogging the other day - separately - so times are changing. Just because one person on the street or online has outdated views about hair I don't believe it represents the general attitude of the world. ;)

[Deborah]

You are either grossly exaggerating things or you just can't count. There were 8 women in the first 5 pages (including you) who categorically didn't like long hair on men. Name 20 on the first 2 pages who flat-out don't like long hair on any men. Name them.

What about those who love long hair on men and who didn't bother to respond? Your definition of a lot is certainly arbitrary to say the least.


Well, since you accuse me of exaggeration, arbitrariness and being unable to count, my answer will likely meet with more of your 'kindness', but, I count four pages of the thread in question, and I easily count more than 20 women on the first couple of pages (I didn't scan the whole thread) who said that they prefer short hair. You can fire off as many disparaging comments about me as you like, but I will not be responding to you again.

[pittsburgpam]

Interesting topic. I am 46 years old and have butt length hair. Is there another term for that length? I just joined this forum today so forgive me if I don't know the language of hair. :p

I have had my hair long most of my life, a few times I have cut it shoulder length. As I get older I feel that there is a lot more prejudice towards older women with long hair. It is viewed as something a young girl has, as someone else posted, not an older woman. Are we trying to be young? Trying to look younger? I believe I've even seen and heard the statement that long hair on an older woman makes her look even older. Is that a not-so-subtle way of trying to make her conform to what society thinks an older woman should be?

The women in my family in the previous generations didn't cut their hair. It was their Crowning Glory from God. I remember several of my great-aunts who had snow white hair done up in a braided bun.

I loathe the "makeover" shows and all the others of that type that almost without fail cut off long hair. This says to me that you can't have long hair and be beautiful or fashionable. Why can't they leave the hair alone except for maybe getting it in the best condition it can be?

Who do you notice in a group of women? The one with the beautifully cared for, long, gorgeous hair. Or the one with all that hair in a bun that makes everyone wonder what its like when it's down.

I LOVE my long hair. I like to brush it. I like to run my hands through it. I rarely blow dry it and in the morning when it's wet I twist it into one smooth long tube to one side and just let it dry. At night when I brush it out it smells FABULOUS and it is smooth as silk. An added bonus is having the love of my life tell me how good it smells when he nuzzles my neck.

[Jason]

Well, since you accuse me of exaggeration, arbitrariness and being unable to count, my answer will likely meet with more of your 'kindness', but, I count four pages of the thread in question, and I easily count more than 20 women on the first couple of pages (I didn't scan the whole thread) who said that they prefer short hair. You can fire off as many disparaging comments about me as you like, but I will not be responding to you again.

Names? I didn't think so.

[LittleOrca]

Perhaps one problem people have with long hair is that what they see in person is not as perfect as it is on television. We have all see commercials like this one (search "silky long black hair" on YouTube for the video since I am not sure the person's preference for other long hair videos permits me to link the video right here. It will be the first video on the list.)

The hair is real to a point, but it has been changed with CGI enhancements, sort of like the dove Evolution (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hibyAJOSW8U) video. There is also countless lights and everything else that makes television look better than reality. For some people, long hair has to be like that: 100&#37; perfect. Anything less and it may be seen as unclean, unworthy, and disgusting. No hair though will be perfect, no matter how well kept it is, but the television only wants to sell us their product so we reach that glorious shine we sometimes forget is enhanced with lights and CGI.

[Zéphine]

Several years ago, I used to get the haircut comments all the time, pretty much always from people I knew. Some of them had long hair themselves but thought my hair was too fine/thin/straight/ratty to look good long, or that I had a "short hair face". I did get compliments when I wore my hair up.
I usually keep it up now, to cut back on tangles and damage––and when it happens to be down, people tell me I look good that way and should wear my hair down more often. I think some people just find change appealing.

[Deborah]

Names? I didn't think so.

SIGH...


1. I prefer short hair on men. I also prefer them to be clean shaven... it's just my preference. My husband wears his hair short and does not grow facial hair so that's just what I like or love I should say.

2. I prefer shorter hair on DH's head, and some facial hair. He has a neatly trimmed goatee, but he looks so cute with a neatly trimmed beard too. I prefer the beard, but he thinks it's too much work. As for body hair, less is more!

3. short hair. facial hair is optional. i don't care about body hair... well unless they're sporting a wool sweater

4. I prefer a very short military cut and no facial hair and non sasquatch level body hair

5. Definitely short hair. Body hair is a plus.

6. body hair is ok .. he doesnt need to wax
but his hair... ummm I hate long hair in guys

7. Short, short hair. Clean shaven but with a goatee! NUMMY!!!

8. I prefer shorter hair on men, it seems the guys that go long hair here (my town, not this forum!!) don't take care of their hair. Greasy, ratty hair on anyone is a turn-off.

9. I've admired guys with long hair, but my preference is: short hair that is trimmed into a nice shape, perhaps with a bit of fringe. Turn offs: excessive use of product on any length, and highlighting on guys.

10. I prefer short hair =)

11. i like the army cut hair on guys, or just a few inches long but not ''long '' hair

12. I guess it really depends on the guy, but I usually like short hair on men and I prefer when they are clean-shaven.

13. I prefer short.

14. I'm not a fan of shaved hair at all - it looks too harsh I think. I like hair from about 2 inches to roughly chin/jaw, longer than that doesn't appeal to me because I don't think it looks good with a suit (v important lol)...

15. I prefer men in short hair and a clean shaven face.

16. I prefer my man's hair to be short- he looks much better that way!

17. Quote: Originally Posted by ___
I prefer short hair on men. I also prefer them to be clean shaven... it's just my preference.

2nd exactly!

18. I am not attracted to guys with long hair. Some of the gorgeous male models have long hair but i prefer a guy to have short hair.

19. Personally, I don't like long hair on men. (Or short hair on women, for that matter.) I like anything from shaved to an inch or two so I can run my fingers through it. I love a full beard, but it should be trimmed *rarely* because that makes it prickly and very unpleasant. I like hairy men, esp chest hair, but obviously that's out of your control.

20. I prefer short short hair on men.

21. I prefer my men clean shaven and with short hair. I have known some very handsome men with long hair and it looked great on them but there is just something about a short military style haircut that gets me going (or maybe it's just the men in uniform that generally accompany those haircuts).

22. Definitely short, as a general thing. Maybe it's just that I know very few long-haired guys, but I hardly ever find them attractive "in that way."

23. I think it depends on the guy. I do like how my boyfriend does his hair, he keeps it really short and he keeps his facial hair really neat by doing it every couple days. So that's good for me, LOL. Generally, I believe long hair is for girls and short is for men. It's cool when some girls have short hair if they can pull it off though

24. Personally I prefer shorter hair on men.

25. Yes, it does depend on the guy but shorter hair on men is what I like *most* of the time.

26. On my man; short hair, like 1-2 cm. Always dark hair. I only ever like men with black or dark dark brown hair. Ideal haircut on many men: see Keanu in Speed.

27. I prefer short hair on men. I personally get a little weirded out if a guy has long hair.

28. I prefer my man to keep it short. I dont mind long hair on a man though.

29. I like DH to have short hair. It does not matter that I have long hair. I do not like DH to grow hair long. In fact I cannot even think of it.

30. My hubby has no hair and that is how I like him. He started going bald at about age 26. Shaved it all off at age 30 and never looked back. he has a nice shaped head and it suits him well.
__________________

Ooops! It was 20 we were after, not 30. Anyway, I found these all on the first couple of pages, just like I said, and I skipped some that were iffy. There are many more.

I would not presume to name names, as it seems unreasonable and rude to include others in my "assignment" from you. I am now finished.

[LittleOrca]

So... anyways... back to the hair prejudice...

[Shiva]

SIGH...


1. I prefer short hair on men. I also prefer them to be clean shaven... it's just my preference. My husband wears his hair short and does not grow facial hair so that's just what I like or love I should say.

2. I prefer shorter hair on DH's head, and some facial hair. He has a neatly trimmed goatee, but he looks so cute with a neatly trimmed beard too. I prefer the beard, but he thinks it's too much work. As for body hair, less is more!

3. short hair. facial hair is optional. i don't care about body hair... well unless they're sporting a wool sweater

4. I prefer a very short military cut and no facial hair and non sasquatch level body hair

5. Definitely short hair. Body hair is a plus.

6. body hair is ok .. he doesnt need to wax
but his hair... ummm I hate long hair in guys

7. Short, short hair. Clean shaven but with a goatee! NUMMY!!!

8. I prefer shorter hair on men, it seems the guys that go long hair here (my town, not this forum!!) don't take care of their hair. Greasy, ratty hair on anyone is a turn-off.

9. I've admired guys with long hair, but my preference is: short hair that is trimmed into a nice shape, perhaps with a bit of fringe. Turn offs: excessive use of product on any length, and highlighting on guys.

10. I prefer short hair =)

11. i like the army cut hair on guys, or just a few inches long but not ''long '' hair

12. I guess it really depends on the guy, but I usually like short hair on men and I prefer when they are clean-shaven.

13. I prefer short.

14. I'm not a fan of shaved hair at all - it looks too harsh I think. I like hair from about 2 inches to roughly chin/jaw, longer than that doesn't appeal to me because I don't think it looks good with a suit (v important lol)...

15. I prefer men in short hair and a clean shaven face.

16. I prefer my man's hair to be short- he looks much better that way!

17. Quote: Originally Posted by ___
I prefer short hair on men. I also prefer them to be clean shaven... it's just my preference.

2nd exactly!

18. I am not attracted to guys with long hair. Some of the gorgeous male models have long hair but i prefer a guy to have short hair.

19. Personally, I don't like long hair on men. (Or short hair on women, for that matter.) I like anything from shaved to an inch or two so I can run my fingers through it. I love a full beard, but it should be trimmed *rarely* because that makes it prickly and very unpleasant. I like hairy men, esp chest hair, but obviously that's out of your control.

20. I prefer short short hair on men.

21. I prefer my men clean shaven and with short hair. I have known some very handsome men with long hair and it looked great on them but there is just something about a short military style haircut that gets me going (or maybe it's just the men in uniform that generally accompany those haircuts).

22. Definitely short, as a general thing. Maybe it's just that I know very few long-haired guys, but I hardly ever find them attractive "in that way."

23. I think it depends on the guy. I do like how my boyfriend does his hair, he keeps it really short and he keeps his facial hair really neat by doing it every couple days. So that's good for me, LOL. Generally, I believe long hair is for girls and short is for men. It's cool when some girls have short hair if they can pull it off though

24. Personally I prefer shorter hair on men.

25. Yes, it does depend on the guy but shorter hair on men is what I like *most* of the time.

26. On my man; short hair, like 1-2 cm. Always dark hair. I only ever like men with black or dark dark brown hair. Ideal haircut on many men: see Keanu in Speed.

27. I prefer short hair on men. I personally get a little weirded out if a guy has long hair.

28. I prefer my man to keep it short. I dont mind long hair on a man though.

29. I like DH to have short hair. It does not matter that I have long hair. I do not like DH to grow hair long. In fact I cannot even think of it.

30. My hubby has no hair and that is how I like him. He started going bald at about age 26. Shaved it all off at age 30 and never looked back. he has a nice shaped head and it suits him well.
__________________

Ooops! It was 20 we were after, not 30. Anyway, I found these all on the first couple of pages, just like I said, and I skipped some that were iffy. There are many more.

I would not presume to name names, as it seems unreasonable and rude to include others in my "assignment" from you. I am now finished.
21 here. :D

I don't mind long hair on guys, but I would rather my boyfriend, husband or whatever have short hair. I don't want to have to share my hair products with anyone else either cuz I am a greedy miser.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread on hair prejudice.

PS - I am also not a big fan of ratty-looking tailbone, knee length hair. Quality over quantity for me.

[Shiva]

edited for double posting... I thought the first post didn't go thru and I swear I checked and there was no post by me, so I reposted it.

There is gremlins in the board tonight.

[frizzinator]

Many folks think hair hanging down does not look neat. If long hair is in a bun, then it is out of sight and it looks neat and no one complains about it.

[RedJen]

When my hair was in the "normal" long hair range of BSL to waist, the very few negative reactions I got did seem to be motivated by envy-- girls who had cut their own hair to be on TV (news). Now, it feels like the negative reactions do seem to come from the fact that my hair length is WAY outside the mainstream. I can see why people would find this length a bit strange. Sometimes even I find it a bit strange (on myself.) But I have always loved and wanted superlong hair, so my reactions aren't exactly "normal."

(As for guys with long hair, I love long, thick healthy hair on guys. My own husband has very short, thin hair, but I'm not in love with him for his hair!)

[intothemist1999]

When the 60s hit and hippies rolled around, it was another liberating moment for women. Removing the constrictive garments (bras) much like was done in the beginning of the century, and growing their hair out long and letting it flow down was in opposition to the extremely styled bobs and beehives they and their mothers had sported..


And some hippies had reputations for bad hygiene habits.

I think "dirty" is a big part of it, and although most people wash their hair several times a week, as recently as my parents generation, once a week was IT. At the carehome, we still have a hard time getting some people into showers once a week! "I didn't do anything to need a wash!" So, long hair, that was washed only once a week was probably more likely to look dirty or pick up stuff (like lint and dust). If not worn up, it could get into stuff like food which could a real turn-off.

Also I suspect some people look at super long hair much like super long fingernails - I mean scary long. You see, I'm putting a judgement there, too. I'm not sure that 10+" fingernails are fashionable anywhere outside Guiness Records aspirees. If you've seen the pics of crazy long nails, they don't (in my opinion) look good at all, and look (to me) quite gross.

I think the parallel between the two is that they may look worse if not kept perfectly, and they can seem very dirty.

Once a couple more generations who are used to very clean bodies and hair haven't lived in a time where long hair is frowned upon as being "dirty", maybe we'll start getting over it.

[intothemist1999]

PS - I am also not a big fan of ratty-looking tailbone, knee length hair. Quality over quantity for me.


Exactly, for *you*. And I assume we're in agreement that ratty-looking tailbone or knee length is fine for the person who likes it that way. :agree:

[intothemist1999]

I don't expect everybody to like it; may be some people will think it is gorgeous but, for example: my mother in law doesn't like my long hair and I am not disturbed by that. I haven't asked her why she doesn't like it, but she herself has short hair (had that all of her life) and that's what she's used to..




I guess what bugs me about this kind of attitude is not her right to not like it, but WHY it would even come up. Why would anyone SAY it to someone dear to them?

[intothemist1999]

Yes. I too have seen terrible-looking long hair IRL. I've seen some hair on LHC, too, that really doesn't appeal to me.



Really?

Hah...

[Igor]

I like men to wear their hair like they want to. If he’s happy with it, so will I be. If a girl can’t get beyond how you wear your hair (Or don’t. Bald is fine too) she isn’t worth your time

This goes both ways by the way

I don’t like it when people grow their hair beyond how long they can care for it. No matter if it’s BSL or knee. And by “care” I guess I mean both the conditioning aspects and actually caring to try something with it other than just letting it hang

I’m not surprised that people has such diverse opinion on hair. It’s something very personal and deeply embedded in our culture, history and biology

[NiAosSi]

I like men to wear their hair like they want to. If he’s happy with it, so will I be. If a girl can’t get beyond how you wear your hair (Or don’t. Bald is fine too) she isn’t worth your time

This goes both ways by the way

I don’t like it when people grow their hair beyond how long they can care for it. No matter if it’s BSL or knee. And by “care” I guess I mean both the conditioning aspects and actually caring to try something with it other than just letting it hang

I’m not surprised that people has such diverse opinion on hair. It’s something very personal and deeply embedded in our culture, history and biology


Everything Igor said. The decision to have long or short hair is a very personal one.

[Autumnberry]

I think there are two reasons.


I really believe it's good that people are not all the same. We should celebrate our individuality, including long hair. :cheese:
Ed

EdG, I think that is such an important point you made. While this cultural value was so central to the 1960s and 70s, it seems to have been misplaced in this decade.

[Autumnberry]

I so agree here! I've seen a lot of long hair that many people think is pretty and all I can see is long hair, it's not pretty by default just because it's long. And these thoughts went through my head a lot in college (10 years ago) so very pre-LHC for me. I've always loved long, healthy hair - and IRL it is so very rare. I see a lot of cotton candy hair that is nearing bsl or any length past it.

I think there's only been once or maybe twice that I've seen extra long hair that didn't belong to an LHC'er that I actually thought was pretty, genuinely pretty. I'm a hair snob, even before LHC I've been a hair snob, it's sad - but true. hahaha I've even asked my hubby to let me know if my hair ever gets straggly looking on the ends - just in case I somehow miss it. He's totally agreed with that idea, he's of the same opinion I am, long healthy hair all the way to the tips or off goes how ever many inches it takes to make it healthy to the tips.

I've had "cotton candy" hair my whole life and longish hair for most of it. (Many people have achieved this texture without any peroxide or heat use :D.) Some people have said mean things about it, but I grow it anyway. Not everyone is going to like long, extra fine hair that tapers from breakage, but I think that it can look good. I don't think wispy hair that fairy tales easily should get cut off at the shoulder.

[ZadenWillowfyre]

It is quite sad that people are so negative against long hair. It is seen as unnecessary and not the "in" thing and just plain dumb sometimes.
I've stated this somewhere before but in physiognomy (the study of how outer physical features describe our character features on the inside) long hair is considered to point to a very free, creative, and self creating person and this scares alot of people subconsciously in today's societe where everyone must follow a trend.

[Nightshade]

I never thought people who seem to repulsed by long hair are envious. Whenever I read someone on the boards say "they're just envious" in replay to bad comment post, I always thought "Yeah yeah, that is what they need to say to themselves to feel better". That just doesn't make any sense. Not everybody is so darn obsessed with their (and others) hair like we LHCers are, and therefore they just can't be envious of something they don't care as much. :nono:

I mean - yeah, let's pretend it's us against the rest of the world. :crazyq: Great, now back to reality please.

Amen, sister. Hell, as others have said, there's some long hair *I* don't like.

When I was posting in my blog yesterday about considering a trim, I was asking people to tell me where their "mental scissors" were i.e. when you look at one of my pics, where to you mentally go, "Yeah, if you trimmed it to *here* it'd look nicer."

I had a lot of honest responses saying people thought it looked nice as it was, but yeah, the ends were a bit thin, and if I wanted to get rid of the thinness I should take 6-8 inches off.

That sort of honesty, I think, is a GOOD thing.

I've seem some pretty tattered heads of long hair (hell, I used to own one of them), so I know where some of the long hair= gross and damaged stereotypes can come from. :shrug:




Nightshade - thanks for the link. It was a really good read. I think it's sad that there are people out there who believe that everyone has to fit the social norm and will make a lot of effort to reel back in someone who's left the mainstream. .

The thing is, I don't think it's always trying to get people to join the Mainstream Short Haired Borg. Really.

Yes, people are made uncomfortable by some things outside the norm. But I'd say they're a minority to the people who just don't like the look of long hair. Does one influence the other? Yes, but I don't think they're coming from the same root.

For instance, I think short hair can look very flattering on some, however, I've never been a fan of flat (i.e. all one length) bob cuts. Spiky pixie cuts, wedge cuts, etc, all those I can dig, but something about the shape just always looks shorn to me in a way that other shorter styles don't. It doesn't mean I hate short hair, just that I dislike that style.

There was a poster in.... I think it was the "What styles do you hate" thread that mentioned that she disliked the look of half-ups on longhairs and got taken to task a little bit for it, as that's one of the "down" styles that many members, including myself, wear.

I could see her point, though, and thought she had a fair opinion. That doesn't (obviously) mean she hates long hair or wants everyone to conform, just that she disliked that style :shrug:

So to sum: Sometimes I think it's less Borg and more simple personal preference.

[Heidi_234]

Nightshade, I see you liked the mental scissors thing :lol: There's definitely a side of having not so great hair from roots to tips that brings up the mental scissors. Folks around here are amazed at the "you should cut it" comment, but if you come think of it - that's how people IRL "fix" bad looking hair, because once again, they don't count every inch as if their life depends on it. It's like a diamond in the rough, it doesn't look good now, but give it shape and it will be the most expensive stone on the face of the planet.

So, we shape our diamonds slowly, over a course of years. It's a choice.

Overall, I don't think people IRL are that negative towards long hair. All they know to do with it is cut it, dye and heat style it. So that's what they offer you. If you get offensive "people of walmart" kind of comments about you uncommonly long hair, that's not just about the hair. You can get reactions and comments on any uncommon thing you choose to do or sport. So what? stick to your choice, that's what makes you happy, that's what you like.

I get comments on the way I dress, is it more of prejudice than comments on long hair? I feel like people here need to get some perspective on things. Hair, like everything else, can seem pretty or ugly, acceptable or not by others. There are people out there who actually like short hair, can you blame them?

Anyway, I'm starting to beat a dead horse, so yeah.

[LaFlor]

It all depends on the culture where you live.

The "latino" culture in america seems to be more bent towards long hair. Most of the women on the tv shows have atleast waist length hair as do a lot of the women I see in real life. Long hair for men is also acceptable. Where I live short hair is seen more as rebellious and strange because there are mostly latinos around here.

When I was surrounded by a more "caucasion american" culture I agree that long hair was more frowned apon. I never really appreciated it because I was always told how wierd it was. It was best to be bsl or above because that meant you were groomed.

As far as an "african american" culture is concerned I feel that in general longer hair is praised because it is so much harder to achieve. African hair takes longer to grow and it doesn't show how long it really is normally. A woman could have BSL hair but it sits above her shoulders. Most of the women from this culture where I live relax their hair or get weaves (preferably that make their hair look long and sleek). The longer your weave or your relaxed, straightened hair, the more "attractive and rich" you are.

The "asian americans" I've met tend to have more choppy bob styles for the women and shorter styles for the men. I'm talking more about chinese/japanese/korean decent.

The "indian" women I've met tend to have longer hair that is kept out of their faces, I haven't seen many that many indian women though.

As far as other cultures go, I haven't a clue about their preferences.

[Jason]

SIGH...


1. I prefer short hair on men. I also prefer them to be clean shaven... it's just my preference. My husband wears his hair short and does not grow facial hair so that's just what I like or love I should say.

2. I prefer shorter hair on DH's head, and some facial hair. He has a neatly trimmed goatee, but he looks so cute with a neatly trimmed beard too. I prefer the beard, but he thinks it's too much work. As for body hair, less is more!

3. short hair. facial hair is optional. i don't care about body hair... well unless they're sporting a wool sweater

4. I prefer a very short military cut and no facial hair and non sasquatch level body hair

5. Definitely short hair. Body hair is a plus.

6. body hair is ok .. he doesnt need to wax
but his hair... ummm I hate long hair in guys

7. Short, short hair. Clean shaven but with a goatee! NUMMY!!!

8. I prefer shorter hair on men, it seems the guys that go long hair here (my town, not this forum!!) don't take care of their hair. Greasy, ratty hair on anyone is a turn-off.

9. I've admired guys with long hair, but my preference is: short hair that is trimmed into a nice shape, perhaps with a bit of fringe. Turn offs: excessive use of product on any length, and highlighting on guys.

10. I prefer short hair =)

11. i like the army cut hair on guys, or just a few inches long but not ''long '' hair

12. I guess it really depends on the guy, but I usually like short hair on men and I prefer when they are clean-shaven.

13. I prefer short.

14. I'm not a fan of shaved hair at all - it looks too harsh I think. I like hair from about 2 inches to roughly chin/jaw, longer than that doesn't appeal to me because I don't think it looks good with a suit (v important lol)...

15. I prefer men in short hair and a clean shaven face.

16. I prefer my man's hair to be short- he looks much better that way!

17. Quote: Originally Posted by ___
I prefer short hair on men. I also prefer them to be clean shaven... it's just my preference.

2nd exactly!

18. I am not attracted to guys with long hair. Some of the gorgeous male models have long hair but i prefer a guy to have short hair.

19. Personally, I don't like long hair on men. (Or short hair on women, for that matter.) I like anything from shaved to an inch or two so I can run my fingers through it. I love a full beard, but it should be trimmed *rarely* because that makes it prickly and very unpleasant. I like hairy men, esp chest hair, but obviously that's out of your control.

20. I prefer short short hair on men.

21. I prefer my men clean shaven and with short hair. I have known some very handsome men with long hair and it looked great on them but there is just something about a short military style haircut that gets me going (or maybe it's just the men in uniform that generally accompany those haircuts).

22. Definitely short, as a general thing. Maybe it's just that I know very few long-haired guys, but I hardly ever find them attractive "in that way."

23. I think it depends on the guy. I do like how my boyfriend does his hair, he keeps it really short and he keeps his facial hair really neat by doing it every couple days. So that's good for me, LOL. Generally, I believe long hair is for girls and short is for men. It's cool when some girls have short hair if they can pull it off though

24. Personally I prefer shorter hair on men.

25. Yes, it does depend on the guy but shorter hair on men is what I like *most* of the time.

26. On my man; short hair, like 1-2 cm. Always dark hair. I only ever like men with black or dark dark brown hair. Ideal haircut on many men: see Keanu in Speed.

27. I prefer short hair on men. I personally get a little weirded out if a guy has long hair.

28. I prefer my man to keep it short. I dont mind long hair on a man though.

29. I like DH to have short hair. It does not matter that I have long hair. I do not like DH to grow hair long. In fact I cannot even think of it.

30. My hubby has no hair and that is how I like him. He started going bald at about age 26. Shaved it all off at age 30 and never looked back. he has a nice shaped head and it suits him well.
__________________

Ooops! It was 20 we were after, not 30. Anyway, I found these all on the first couple of pages, just like I said, and I skipped some that were iffy. There are many more.

I would not presume to name names, as it seems unreasonable and rude to include others in my "assignment" from you. I am now finished.

Your original assertion was that there were "easily" "over" "20" in the first "couple" of pages. How far did you have to go to compile your list? You also included those who simply preferred short hair on their significant others but didn't feel strongly or even liked long hair on other men.

[GlennaGirl]

Really?

Hah...

Yes, of course. :) Not every head of hair appeals to me simply because it's long. And as I said, I'm sure my head of hair doesn't appeal to everybody. It's fairly thin, the color is uneven...I don't expect every person in the world to love my hair simply because I'm growing it.

And likewise, I don't love every head of long hair simply because it's being grown. It would be kind of impossible for that to happen, IMO. That's like saying "I love everything that's colored red." :)

[Shiva]

Exactly, for *you*. And I assume we're in agreement that ratty-looking tailbone or knee length is fine for the person who likes it that way. :agree:
uh, yeah... that's what I said. Even if I didn't think it was *fine* for the other person who really cares? It's just an opinion. People take others opinions far too seriously. If you're really confident in your ratty-looking tailbone or knee length hair why would you need the rest of the world to validate it for you?

[GlennaGirl]

I've had "cotton candy" hair my whole life and longish hair for most of it. (Many people have achieved this texture without any peroxide or heat use :D.) Some people have said mean things about it, but I grow it anyway. Not everyone is going to like long, extra fine hair that tapers from breakage, but I think that it can look good. I don't think wispy hair that fairy tales easily should get cut off at the shoulder.

Exactly. If a person grows hair, he or she does so because he or she likes it. If one is looking for a guarantee that everyone will love it, then forget about growing hair. :p Seriously. Convincing the world that long hair is great isn't the way to go--people have free will, and some will simply dislike length in general, and some will dislike certain textures...etc. That's just the way of the world.

[Nightshade]

It's like a diamond in the rough, it doesn't look good now, but give it shape and it will be the most expensive stone on the face of the planet.

So, we shape our diamonds slowly, over a course of years. It's a choice.

There's a quote for the books :)

[intothemist1999]

Yes, of course. :) Not every head of hair appeals to me simply because it's long. And as I said, I'm sure my head of hair doesn't appeal to everybody. It's fairly thin, the color is uneven...I don't expect every person in the world to love my hair simply because I'm growing it.


Well no, not in the world, but I guess I naively assumed other people HERE would appreciate other members' attempts.

You got me thinking last night...I honestly can't say I've seen hair here I didn't like. I questioned a couple hairCUTS (which is none my business) but can't say I actually didn't like anyone's long hair.

[Deborah]

Your original assertion was that there were "easily" "over" "20" in the first "couple" of pages. How far did you have to go to compile your list? You also included those who simply preferred short hair on their significant others but didn't feel strongly or even liked long hair on other men.


I don't know what you are talking about. On my computer the thread is four pages long. I looked at the first couple of pages only, as I have said all along. I am not going to repeat this for you again.

Here is the relevant part of my original post. I stand by it. You can think whatever you want I guess.

As to your attacks on my integrity and intelligence, I am offended. Congratulations. I have in no way attacked you.
_____________

"...As to men, there are those who just don't like long hair on men for whatever reason (there are various reasons given by people), many who consider it effeminate, and others who take the Bible literally when it says that long hair is a glory to a woman, but a shame to a man. (I Cor. 11:14-15) These people are certainly the minority on this board, and some are a minority in the larger culture as well. Most of them don't hate anyone, they just think long hair on men is not good.

Many on this board don't like long hair on men for one reason or another. They usually remain quiet in order to avoid being trampled by the (on this list) majority."

[Presto]

Hmm, it almost seems to come back to the fact that everyone has opinions. Have you heard the phrase, "Opinions are like "bellybuttons"(put a different word there), everyones got em and they all stink."?

There is the issue of being judgmental. Some think it's bad to be judgmental. But to say that is in itself being judgmental, and so therefore hypocritical.

I don't personally like the pandemic of nicey-niceness, make everyone feel good, everyone's a winner. But there has to be a happy medium somewhere between that and spouting off your true opinion with no regard for anyone's feelings.

I think everyone has an opinion. And every opinion is different. Being judgmental is okay. But you must consider your impact. There is a way to convey negative opinions tactfully, but sometimes it's best to keep it to yourself.

I have had a fellow LHCer tell me that my hair is not at all how said LHCer would have kept it. But it was conveyed in a matter of fact, uncruel way. :cool: Now some others who are more sensitive than I might have taken it as an insult, but I probed a little further and found that it was not meant as an insult, just "I wouldn't do it like that." And further, this comment was followed up with compliments on other aspects of my hair. :cool:

I can really respect that. I don't see much of it on the board, though. :lol:

[Jason]

I don't know what you are talking about. On my computer the thread is four pages long. I looked at the first couple of pages only, as I have said all along. I am not going to repeat this for you again.

Here is the relevant part of my original post. I stand by it. You can think whatever you want I guess.

As to your attacks on my integrity and intelligence, I am offended. Congratulations. I have in no way attacked you.
_____________

"...As to men, there are those who just don't like long hair on men for whatever reason (there are various reasons given by people), many who consider it effeminate, and others who take the Bible literally when it says that long hair is a glory to a woman, but a shame to a man. (I Cor. 11:14-15) These people are certainly the minority on this board, and some are a minority in the larger culture as well. Most of them don't hate anyone, they just think long hair on men is not good.

Many on this board don't like long hair on men for one reason or another. They usually remain quiet in order to avoid being trampled by the (on this list) majority."

I thought you were referring to the thread in the poll section about this topic:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=18016

There are 23 pages, not 4.

No congratulations are necessary.

[Deborah]

I thought you were referring to the thread in the poll section about this topic:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=18016

There are 23 pages, not 4.

No congratulations are necessary.

That is the poll. My computer numbers it four pages. Yours must be set differently or something. Adiós. Don't address me again. I won't reply.

[HairColoredHair]

Wow... there's a lot of anger in this thread.

My two cents:

Some may prefer short hair, but not dislike long hair.
People are allowed to disagree without attacking each other.
My hair is long and may look 'ratty', 'unkempt', and might make me look like a 'madwoman' (hehehehe!) but I like it, it makes me happy, and that's all that really matters to me and all that really OUGHT to matter to anyone else.

[Shiva]

Wow... there's a lot of anger in this thread.

My two cents:

Some may prefer short hair, but not dislike long hair.
People are allowed to disagree without attacking each other.
My hair is long and may look 'ratty', 'unkempt', and might make me look like a 'madwoman' (hehehehe!) but I like it, it makes me happy, and that's all that really matters to me and all that really OUGHT to matter to anyone else.
I love when people "get it."

Heck, my hair is going gray... everyone tells me to dye it, but there is a saying I heard here "I am not here to decorate your world" ... if you (generally speaking) like your hair that is all that matters. For myself I do not want to have scraggly, ratty ends. I don't like them and while I mostly keep my comments to myself regarding the quality of other people's hair occasionally I do notice damaged-looking ends. Do my thoughts and opinions need to be policed? C'mon now... I am not running around after these heads of hair with a pair of scissors, starting hate threads and threatening other members. So I disagree, big deal. It's YOUR hair.

There's been plenty of times where my hair has been damaged and ratty-looking. I am not exempt from my own opinions.

[RancheroTheBee]

I know I have absolutely no control over what happens in this thread, but I did start it, and I did start it for a reason. That reason was not to argue.

I realize that on any post that asks people to express their opinions, someone is going to disagree with someone else, but it's become a matter of everybody arguing over semantics and stupid, inconsequential BS. Ironically, one of the things I wanted to discuss was why hair has an emotional power over people strong enough to even begin discussions in the first place.

I admit that I probably fanned the flames by challenging Juliaxena, but my intention was not to hurt her feelings, and to be frank, I don't think she'd even taken it too personally anyway. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and people should be allowed to challenge said opinion and be able to discuss it in a mature, adult way.

That said, I think this thread is taking a turn for the worse. I would like the sarcasm, finger-pointing and obsessive examination of semantics to stop immediately.

It's just hair.

[SHELIAANN1969]

SNIP
It's just hair.


How can you say it's just hair? :wail::wail::wail::taz: :taz: :taz: :wail::wail::wail:

ha ha ha ....:disco:

[RancheroTheBee]

How can you say it's just hair? :wail::wail::wail::taz: :taz: :taz: :wail::wail::wail:

ha ha ha ....:disco:

:P What a magnificent dancing banana you have there.

[NiAosSi]

This thread needs...... QUESO :cheese:

[Jason]

That is the poll. My computer numbers it four pages. Yours must be set differently or something. Adiós. Don't address me again. I won't reply.

I will address you again if I so choose.

It appears that it was mostly a misunderstanding. My computer has it at 23 pages so you can probably see why I couldn't understand that you were saying there were so many negative views in only the first 2 pages. On your computer's setting that was equivalent to roughly 12 of my pages!

[GlennaGirl]

Well no, not in the world, but I guess I naively assumed other people HERE would appreciate other members' attempts.

Appreciate the attempts? Oh most definitely! ETA: Oh, I should explain that statement. What I mean is: If I don't absolutely love a head of hair here or there, it doesn't mean I don't admire the person's stick-tuitiveness. I know exactly how it goes, I'm a grower too, and I can certainly respect the effort.

[physicschick]

I haven't read this thread and don't have time to read it in full, but I have read the multitude of reported posts coming from this thread. If the parties making those reported posts continue in this vein, the thread will be closed very soon. If somebody is annoying you, put that person on ignore.

Everyone else, please carry on with your regularly scheduled thread.

[Alun]

I've had "cotton candy" hair my whole life and longish hair for most of it. (Many people have achieved this texture without any peroxide or heat use :D.) Some people have said mean things about it, but I grow it anyway. Not everyone is going to like long, extra fine hair that tapers from breakage, but I think that it can look good. I don't think wispy hair that fairy tales easily should get cut off at the shoulder.

Thankyou!

My hair is thin and fine, breaks and splits easily, and is extremely tapered. If I had a blunt cut I'd lose half the length. I've never used synthetic dyes and haven't even used a hair dryer for many, many, years, much less ever tried to perm or straighten it. I never do any of the things that increase damage, except sometimes comb it a bit less gently than I should.

I think you should be able to grow out any hair type without trimming it so frequently that you lose all the growth. Uncut hair is our natural state, and nobody ought to be made to feel that they should have to cut just because their genes didn't give them the greatest possible hair.

[Short2Long2009]

I haven't read a lot of the arguing pages, so I may have missed someone else making this point, but I think sometimes people judge long hair harshly because they are very into fashion and they see fashion as kind of a societal thing for everyone to do in order to be part of something. When people don't focus their energy on being a part of it (Long hair doesn't usually change every season.), it's like telling them that you don't value what they do and who they are, so they do an offensive-defense by criticizing.

-Just my two cents.

[Fifty-Five]

Sometimes, I think someone sees what's 'right' and 'wrong' based on what the media/fashion industry says is wrong and right, so it affects their opinion greatly.

I also think, though, that a lot of people have biased opinions against long hair because it seems childish to them. Long hair is something you have when you're a kid, when you're grown up. I'm pretty sure I've seen people on here say that their friends/parents have asked why they don't have any of those cute shorter styles, or 'mom hair'. I can't remember hearing it on here, but last April, a friend of mine cut her hair short and layered with bangs and a hold bunch of streaks because she wanted to be professional and mature ( I wanted to say that for the money she spent, she could've bought a suit or paid for a good portion of it or something that would've looked MUCH more professional, but eh, it's her decision, where I agree with it or not).

I also think the whole 'toilet dipping' thing adds to the 'long hair must be dirty' myth. Apparently, people think that if you have long hair, you don't do anything with it when you use the toilet! Makes ya wonder what prehistoric beings said when someone first wore a loin cloth. 'But won't it get pee on it when you try to pee?' 'Not if I move it out of the way!' 'OMG THIS GUY'S A GENIUS! No wonder he invented someone so magnificent!'

[Kimberly]

'OMG THIS GUY'S A GENIUS!

Comedic genius right there!

[eresh]

Mental illness > check!
Long long hair > check!
People commenting on it > check!
Ends > ratty, dry, yukkie when in a lousy selfesteem mood > check!
Ends > beautiful and well cared for when in a confident happy mood > check!
:D

I guess short cuts are trendy for a while now and long hair just attracks more attention somehow.
People have different likes and dislikes, I don't mind if someone thinks my hair is too long or dirty or impossible to go to the toilet with.
What I do mind is that some people feel the need to shout it out loud in the streets...:rolleyes:

[Flynn]

The funniest idea here is that you can get rid of the "long hair mental illness" by... cutting off your hair.

It just doesn't work that way.

[Rebelkat]

Mental illness > check!
Long long hair > check!
People commenting on it > check!
Ends > ratty, dry, yukkie when in a lousy selfesteem mood > check!
Ends > beautiful and well cared for when in a confident happy mood > check!
:D

Same here! :cheese:

I guess short cuts are trendy for a while now and long hair just attracks more attention somehow.
People have different likes and dislikes, I don't mind if someone thinks my hair is too long or dirty or impossible to go to the toilet with.
What I do mind is that some people feel the need to shout it out loud in the streets...:rolleyes:
I agree 100%. You can't control how you feel about different things, but you CAN control whether you're rude or not. I'm getting to where I don't care what other people think of my hair... as long as they aren't rude about it. I always try to be respectful of others' lifestyles and opinions, and I expect the same courtesy. Oddly enough, I get more offended when someone says hurtful things about someone else's hair than when they say them about mine.

[Darkhorse1]

I like men to wear their hair like they want to. If he’s happy with it, so will I be. If a girl can’t get beyond how you wear your hair (Or don’t. Bald is fine too) she isn’t worth your time

This goes both ways by the way

I don’t like it when people grow their hair beyond how long they can care for it. No matter if it’s BSL or knee. And by “care” I guess I mean both the conditioning aspects and actually caring to try something with it other than just letting it hang

I’m not surprised that people has such diverse opinion on hair. It’s something very personal and deeply embedded in our culture, history and biology

Amen to that!

I'm a libra, so I'm a neatness/balance freak. I prefer blunt hemlines/ends to fairy tail ends, but that doesn't mean I'll message every one here to trim their hair! To me, if that's what they like, that's great and to me, that is beautiful. What I prefer and what is doesn't mean its negative, it's just what my eye prefers.

The only thing I hate? Dishes that multiply in my sink, numbers that decrease in my check book, but increase in my bills, and really big, creepy black wolf spiders.

[juliaxena]

I admit that I probably fanned the flames by challenging Juliaxena, but my intention was not to hurt her feelings, and to be frank, I don't think she'd even taken it too personally anyway.

Nope. To be honest, I din't even know it was you that challeneged me, I totally forgot, so you can really say I didn't take it personally. To be even more honest, I didn't really feel it as a challenge, just an exchange of opinions.

[Toadstool]

Amen to that!


What I prefer and what is doesn't mean its negative, it's just what my eye prefers.Exactly!!!:):)


The only thing I hate? Dishes that multiply in my sink, numbers that decrease in my check book, but increase in my bills, and really big, creepy black wolf spiders.

ROFL:D With you totally on the spider thing.

[Pierre]

Henna your *nails*? Interesting! What's that look like? I'm curious!
See post 109 in this thread.

[Euphony]

I've had "cotton candy" hair my whole life and longish hair for most of it. (Many people have achieved this texture without any peroxide or heat use :D.) Some people have said mean things about it, but I grow it anyway. Not everyone is going to like long, extra fine hair that tapers from breakage, but I think that it can look good. I don't think wispy hair that fairy tales easily should get cut off at the shoulder.
Sorry, my post apparently came out wrong. I certainly don't mean cotton candy by the hair type - and your hair is gorgeous, far from cotton candy. What I mean is a person that has long hair, that is obviously not cared for - well for example how my hair used to be. I raked a brush through it as hard and fast as possible this made my hair frizzy and broken, my hair was very dry from washing it every day with very strong shampoos - the list goes on. My hair was quite thick at the nape of my neck and at bsl it was very, very thin, very frizzy, very dry - really looked (and felt) horrid - and off it would go to only start the cycle over again LOL

I think thin, wispy hair is quite pretty - it's far different than the obviously abused, neglected hair that I was trying to portray.

[Tanuki]

:P What a magnificent dancing banana you have there.

Taken out of context, that is so wrong

[Presto]

Regarding cotton candy hair, I was imagining the over processed heavily platinum streaked hair I see not infrequently.
I'm not knocking bottle blonds here, I'm saying folks with really dark hair who try to go too light, and always pull the color through. The sort that turns straight hair into a nearly 4b texture, all crinkly. Why do their hairdressers do that? Maybe they are doing it themselves at home...

Some of my ends are like this from sun damage, I think it would be fair to say I need serious S&D when I start to feel nothing but cotton candy at the ends of my hair.

Super fine wispy floaty hair could look a bit like cotton candy, but it's not the same thing, it's more like fairy gauze. :)

[Tanuki]

I hear cotton candy hair and imagine those old ladies with really thin, curly hair that they dye all sorts of weird colors, like pink

[Birdman]

Hello

I have seen a sign on a flower shop saying that hippies go through the back door. I assume it is about long haired men and I think that it is disgusting to discriminate against anyone who looks different.

As far as myself, I don;t care what anyone thinks, I am growing my hair out!

Jerome

[Tanuki]

I don't think that sign was meant to be taken seriously... and I don't think long hair automatically means hippy anymore anyway

[RancheroTheBee]

Taken out of context, that is so wrong

:eek: Tee hee!


I hear cotton candy hair and imagine those old ladies with really thin, curly hair that they dye all sorts of weird colors, like pink


OHYMYGODILOVETHEM. I saw this old lady with teal hair, and I almost embraced her little bird-like frame into my arms and told her how unbelievably awesome she was. I just basically love anyone who rocks something really different. And little old ladies seem to be all about that.

When I shaved my head, I got a lot of derisive looks (and sometimes, downright abuse), but little old ladies always came up to me and told me how cool I was, or told me they were proud of me. Then, it grew out and I dyed it fuchsia. Guess who liked it the most?

[Tanuki]

They also seem to get away with saying some of the most blatantly racist things I've ever heard... or are we meeting different old people (thank you grandma)

[RancheroTheBee]

They also seem to get away with saying some of the most blatantly racist things I've ever heard... or are we meeting different old people (thanks you grandma)

Haha. I'm obviously meeting all the cool ones.

[cobblersmaid]

Haha. I'm obviously meeting all the cool ones.

Stop hogging all the cool older folks!!!!! :lol:

[redbark]

I don't think any hair is split-end-free, full stop. Even DBF's neatly trimmed and groomed beard gets split ends.

That's nothing. I know someone here had a split 'pit hair :lol:

[justgreen]

That's nothing. I know someone here had a split 'pit hair :lol:


:spitting:

*justy backs carefully out of the room*

[GoddesJourney]

I was always taught that really long hair was restrictive in some way. This partially goes to my hispanic side as my mom was not allowed to cut her hair as a child, nor were my female cousins. It was nothing but a burdon to them since they were very athletic basketball players and didn't have much hope in the way of hair care. Detangling was a mess and it was too hot in the summer. Asking a child to care for classic length hair is asking a lot, especially when it's a danger just going to the bathroom. When they got older, they were allowed to trim.

I was taught that this was also not a good thing for older women because it looks ratty and dirty. I was pointed many examples of women on the streets who had waist to classic hair and clearly NO idea how to care for it. Of course I would think that long hair just becomes like this over time. It was an indication of someone who is not mentally able to care for themselves or something, because I consider poor hygene a mark of lack of health (physical or mental).

I think this carries over to men with long hair, as most of the men I've seen with long hair in my life have been horrible at taking care of it. I guess they don't want to look "too pretty" or something. I don't consider resembling something the cat dragged in being "masculine" but that's just my opinion.

Anyway, that's just my take on why I would assume people might react negatively to long hair. They haven't had a chance to change those views and so maintain these prejudices. Most of this issue with long hair, I think, stems from society in general having lost the knowledge of how to care for and grow beautiful long hair through our liberal movements. I'm glad people have become more open to liberal thinking, but it's a shame the those who want the long hair have a hard time finding good information outside of LHC.

Also, I think it depends on the country. Most latin countries have a longer long hair standard for women at least. I was hard pressed to find a girl with hair shorter that BSL in Rio de Janeiro, at least among the youth.

Come to think of it, maybe long hair is looked down upon on women over a certain age because it's usually been chemically dyed and processed and so it's more likely to look terrible and wiry at longer lengths.

[GuinevereMay]

That's a really good question. My mom tells me that I'm getting "too old" for my length of hair. My sister, a hair stylist, says that I "hide" under my hair (how that's possible, I don't know, since I always wear it up.)

I guess that long hair is typically thought to suit little girls and when you cross into womanhood, you cut your hair into a chic "grown-up" hairstyle.

Luckily for me, I live in a place where long hair is part of the culture, so no one seems to notice my length. I'll be moving back to the mainland at the end of the year, so I'm curious to see how people will react to my hair once I get there.

[GoddesJourney]

That's a really good question. My mom tells me that I'm getting "too old" for my length of hair. My sister, a hair stylist, says that I "hide" under my hair (how that's possible, I don't know, since I always wear it up.)

I guess that long hair is typically thought to suit little girls and when you cross into womanhood, you cut your hair into a chic "grown-up" hairstyle.

Luckily for me, I live in a place where long hair is part of the culture, so no one seems to notice my length. I'll be moving back to the mainland at the end of the year, so I'm curious to see how people will react to my hair once I get there.

I noticed that on the islands. I saw some really long, beautiful hair the last time I was there. I saw a Hawaiian surfer girl out here in California last year a waist to hip length braid about twice as thick as mine. HUGE hair envy. Anyway, your hair is gorgeous and I'm pretty sure people will feel that way about you when you come home.:D

[GuinevereMay]

I noticed that on the islands. I saw some really long, beautiful hair the last time I was there. I saw a Hawaiian surfer girl out here in California last year a waist to hip length braid about twice as thick as mine. HUGE hair envy. Anyway, your hair is gorgeous and I'm pretty sure people will feel that way about you when you come home.:D
Oh, thank you! :oops: I sure hope I don't get any weird reactions. I don't want to cut it due to peer pressure.
I saw this girl last week that had hair past her knees. It was really not in good shape, which surprised me since woman (and men!) seem to take such pride in their hair. I know kukui oil is used a lot, but I haven't tried it.

[AnitaThorn]

I've posted this in a different thread, but I thought it was relevant here. People laugh in my face when I tell them my hair goals. I've had more than one person do this. What's the deal with that? Has anyone else experienced this? I don't see what's so funny about it! :confused:

:cheese: Well...maybe the dancing cheese, but that's it! :p

[Avalin]

Wow. I just read this entire thread. At 3:30 in the morning.
Can you say, "college student?"

It was a very good thread though.

My opinion:
I associate beautiful, un-split, shiny, hair (short or long) with health. I also associate beautiful nails, skin, healthy weight, etc. with health. Health is a good thing, especially when looking at it from an evolutionary perspective (which is the way I look at a lot of things; I am an anthro major). I don't know anyone who values ratty hair over beautiful hair (except those with dreads?...which are healthy for naturally textured (usually African) hair but to get untextured hair to do that it has to be damaged and rolled and waxed).

Length has little to do with health and is personal preference and is susceptible to society influences.

Therefore any length can be appropriate for anyone as long as it is healthy.

Seems simple enough? I suppose what qualifies as healthy hair could be up to debate though...

[curlylocks85]

Over in the makeover thread that Eric started, someone (I think it was Wavelength) made a few great points about why long hair is sometimes seen as negative, dirty, a sign of mental illness.

I wanted to start a discussion on why this happens. Sometimes, we often chock it up to envy, or misunderstanding, but what about the people who are clearly not envious or do understand why you have long hair, and still think there's something wrong with you?

I apologize if there's a thread like this, by the way. If there isn't, I'd love to discuss why some people have a very negative attitude about long hair in general. And I'm not talking about specific people, exactly. I mean more about the general public's perception of very long hair. I say this because I can think of very few media outlets that embrace long hair on people over the age of 25 (and on men of all ages) and it somewhat confuses me. There's always the odd friend or family member who makes a disparaging comment about long hair, but do you think they would still feel this way if it was socially acceptable to snark about people with long hair? And why is it more acceptable for younger people to have long hair, but suddenly it's a fashion no-no once you hit 40?

I think the reason I want to discuss this is because although a lot of us here know the result of people's negative views, i.e.: Women over the age of whatever shouldn't have long hair; men with long hair are freaks, etc. I don't recall many discussions where we tried to see the roots, no pun, of the issue. Maybe we have, but I haven't been here that long, so humour me. :p

In my personal experience when someone commented on my hair (positively or negatively), their comments were deeply rooted in their already existing belief system(s). This could be due to many factors, age, environment, fashion, television, bad experience(s) etc...


Some believed that I should straighten my hair because it would make me "look pretty". Some one said I should have short hair because I would "look better".


I have heard people talking to one another about someone’s hair saying that they should get a haircut. There is no need for long hair.


I think the prejudice that one may experience with long hair does not have a single reason to explain it. The same goes for short hair and hair colors such as blue and purple, which I have seen and other different beliefs systems people stick within a given culture/era/situation.


As far as long hair representing mental illness, that is something I feel has been portrayed in Hollywood for entertainment purposes much like the portrayal of serial murderers. Most look just like everybody else, but in films they look scary and different from the "norm” hence the long hair scary women freaking out.


I think a big contributing factor is followers and leaders. A lot people follow the current trend of the times whether that is fashion, going to school, driving the "right" car. However, to be a leader means to step outside of what others do and do something that different. Maybe people feel insecure so they feel the need to make you feel that as well.


I am no expert. This is just my opinion from my own personal experiences.

[Bene]

So this is what I've learned (rough generalizations coming up) from this thread and a few other threads:


- Anyone who prefers shorter hair is brainwashed by the beauty industry and media.

- Anyone who actively dislikes longer hair just hasn't seen healthy longer hair.

- If someone has seen healthy longer hair and still don't like it, they simply don't understand the concept of "fairy tale ends"

- If all else fails, they are "jealous"


From what I see, there is a lot of prejudice going both ways. The thing is, the standard of beauty here is long hair, hence the prejudice and defensiveness towards the other view. Doesn't it stand to reason that there would be some sort of prejudice and defensiveness about long hair in the outside world (where the standard is shorter hair) ?


I appreciate long hair sites, because they are places for people to get together to share information and in some cases commiserate about issues with hair and reactions we've had from friends and family. But any person on the outside looking in would think [I]"Wow, those people are nuts!" because of how these places can sometimes become an us vs. them sort of thing. In some cases, it can appear as a sort of fanaticism or mania to someone who doesn't really "understand", which reinforces the long hair/crazy person stereotype.

[Avalin]

Bene: What?.
The list of generalizations you made confuse me (I disagree with all of them and I think just about everyone who has commented would also disagree... correct me if I am wrong). For example I did not get the vibe that people here on LHC think that people who prefer short hair are brainwashed by the media. Some people simply prefer it based personal preference outside of cultural trends. One could even flip that around and claim that the LHC brainwashes people into thinking that long hair is beautiful.

Did I understand your post right?

[FrannyG]

So this is what I've learned (rough generalizations coming up) from this thread and a few other threads:


- Anyone who prefers shorter hair is brainwashed by the beauty industry and media.

- Anyone who actively dislikes longer hair just hasn't seen healthy longer hair.

- If someone has seen healthy longer hair and still don't like it, they simply don't understand the concept of "fairy tale ends"

- If all else fails, they are "jealous" [insert here long rant about the difference between jealousy and envy] [/snip]



I have to say that while no one has stated any of these things outright, I agree that these are inferences one could take away when reading this thread, in general. I don't think that everyone who has posted believes the above points, but I do see an "us vs. them" tendency at times here.

[Bene]

Bene: What?.
The list of generalizations you made confuse me (I disagree with all of them and I think just about everyone who has commented would also disagree... correct me if I am wrong). For example I did not get the vibe that people here on LHC think that people who prefer short hair are brainwashed by the media. Some people simply prefer it based personal preference outside of cultural trends. One could even flip that around and claim that the LHC brainwashes people into thinking that long hair is beautiful.

Did I understand your post right?

I think you got it right. I was just throwing out there how it could be flipped around and how someone could jump to conclusions. But yes, even though some people in this thread disagreed with those generalizations, there are people on this site who have said it's jealousy/envy and media brainwashing. It shows up in degrees, sometimes not quite so subtly.

Even in this thread, does it necessarily have to be prejudice (an already loaded word) instead of preference? It's something that happens on hobby or special interest sites. It can't be helped, nor am I condemning it. Just saying that it happens, but we have an opportunity to not let it become something more than it really is.

[MandyBeth]

I'm guilty of this to some degree also, but it's more the unkempt hair thing. I just think it more on long hair because if short hair is ratty, half the time it's SUPPOSED to be that way, and the damage isn't as visible as 8" of split ends, bleach fried rats nest hair that they are keeping because they want long hair.

Yes, I'd like longer hair - more to see what my hair can do - but if I don't get past shoulders with healthy hair, I don't. I want healthy hair first, and the healthy hairs can see how long they'd like to get.

[Morrighan]

but to get untextured hair to do that it has to be damaged and rolled and waxed).

People with straight hair can naturaly get dreads by not combing. Some straighties have to not wash too. They will start to form once the hair dries out. It will usually take longer than someone with curly hair though.

Before I found LHC my own hair would get faux dreads everytime I washed it because all I did was use shampoo on the whole length. They would form while drying, unless I combed it out every 5 mintues. If I didn't, I would spend a couple hours unraveling them once it dried. Which is why I call them faux, because they didn't have to be cut out, which I think real dreads do.

[treesandcoffee]

I have read most of the posts, but I think I'll put in my thoughts on why there's prejudice against long hair.

In the 70s, anthropologist Susan Ortner wrote a paper about how generally women are seen as closer to nature, and men to culture. Since nature seems to be something to be "conquered" in the West, she uses this as the reason why women are second class citizens worldwide. (I am summing this up very bluntly).

Of course, there have been many refutes against this since then, but I think she was on to something, even if a little thing--- "nature" vs. "culture"-- "raw" vs "cooked"...

For some reason the modern West has a need to trim, cut back, and renounce every thing natural about the body and earth. All of the earth's limited resources must be manipulated and emptied to support the exponentially increasing updates in technology and in our "things". Nature isn't okay by itself, it must be "prettyfied" and "smoothed over" to our technological benefits and technological needs.

So this naturally translates to our bodies which, however you look at it, are made of the earth. So as people "civilize" themselves, they must trim and manipulate the nature in them, especially the hair. It's one of the easier parts to manipulate.

So if you have someone counter culture hair wise (and I would say that long hair, tb or classic and beyond is counter culture), they are going to bring up all that unconscious denying of the natural in its natural state that is soo deeply embedded in our culture that we might never see it objectively.

For men, I think that there is a more specific modern association with the hair. Think about hair in the armed forces. Buzzed = patriots, obeying the rules. Long= quite the opposite. Long haired male figures in modern times are seen as anti gov., protesters, etc.

Some people just think super long hair is ugly, and I agree its probably more often than not over people with long hair not maintaining it. But what if this view is striking a chord in something deeper? A cultural conditioning that you can't recognize? After all, beauty standards are learned. Compare them worldwide and you will see a huge variety, many things we'd never consider beautiful, and may be disgusted in. For example, female genital modification is done mainly for aesthetic purposes. Women who push down their collarbones with neck rings-- again aesthetics. Food binding in China. Etc. etc. etc.

Anyway those are just some of my thoughts. I don't have anything against super long hair or super trimmed hair or super short hair. I do think its just interesting that it strikes a chord in many people, because someone else's hair doesn't affect you directly. Its worth investigating imo.

[Juanita]

I'm going to be contoversial here. It seems to me that The North Americas seem to have the most trouble accepting long hair and deviating from the norm. For the rest of the world don't seem to have these issues to such an extent. Not Make over shows that seem to make people conform to a perceived fashion norm for for it's people. many countries have older woman who have never cut their hair. They are probably seen as backward or that the women have less freedoms.

[florenonite]

I'm going to be contoversial here. It seems to me that The North Americas seem to have the most trouble accepting long hair and deviating from the norm. For the rest of the world don't seem to have these issues to such an extent. Not Make over shows that seem to make people conform to a perceived fashion norm for for it's people. many countries have older woman who have never cut their hair. They are probably seen as backward or that the women have less freedoms.

I've lived in Britain and Canada, and Britain has this problem just as much as Canada does. In fact, I'd hazard a guess that it's worse here, because Britain has a celebrity culture with, well, its own celebrities rather than another country's :p

ETA: The reason I think the celebrity culture is relevant is because celebrities, more so than the average population, frequently cut, dye, or otherwise change their hairstyles. They set an example for the rest of the population in doing so.

[ilovelonghair]

I'll admit too, that when I was a surly, insecure teenager caught up in a lot of surly and insecure teenage politics, I remember looking at a girl wearing her knee-length hair down and thinking, who does she think she is? An elf princess?

(sorry this is a quote from the first page!)

I was the total opposite and would have been green with envy! As a teen my hair didn't grow well (not even BSL) so I always looked at all the other girls with envy, most girls at school had beautiful thick hair (and one guy had long curly red hair, I was also jealous of him).

Later I noticed a really weird thing: when those people got into their 20's the thickness went away a lot. One of my highschool friends had the thickest blond hair possible and in her 20's it became it's sloppy thinnish hair. What happened?
My hair got thicker and better, lucky me :)

To get back on topic, I never encounter the comments of 'you should cut your hair' or 'long hair is not nice' or whatever. Only compliments, especially on updo's :)

[Juanita]

Yes I do see that through TV shows that come out of both countries
But to me it seems very visable particulary that celebrity worship culture.
It comes across strongly to me in threads like this where the norm is seen to be that you must be styled, bleached,wear makeup, be artifical to be seen as normal. I'm sure that probably isn't true but it is the way it comes across to me. Thats how I see it.
I 'ved lived in asian countries when very young though I'm a westerner.

[florenonite]

Yes I do see that through TV shows that come out of both countries
But to me it seems very visable particulary that celebrity worship culture.
It comes across strongly to me in threads like this where the norm is seen to be that you must be styled, bleached,wear makeup, be artifical to be seen as normal. I'm sure that probably isn't true but it is the way it comes across to me. Thats how I see it.
I 'ved lived in asian countries when very young though I'm a westerner.

Ah, I see, you're comparing it to Asian countries. I saw your location and "North America" and read it as being a comparison of North America versus other western countries :flower:

[Juanita]

But also where I live. There is just not that pressure to conform. The Northern Territory is very casual as to dress/makeup hair etc. We do like to dressup on occasion, but I couldn't imagine the pressure to conform. But I guess there could be that pressure in Souther Cities Sydney, Melbourne, Canberra etc. But they are outside my experience. And we also don't have those homegrown makeover type shows. Gossip magazines yes.

[Liss]

But also where I live. There is just not that pressure to conform. The Northern Territory is very casual as to dress/makeup hair etc. We do like to dressup on occasion, but I couldn't imagine the pressure to conform.

Well I just finished reading through the entire thread (and my eyes are going fuzzy). All I can think on the subject is that I've never encountered any prejudice about long hair, so I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. But I did grow up in the NT and Juanita has pretty much perfectly described the chilled out attitudes we were surrounded with, which probably explains why I've been fortunate to escape hair-prejudice.

[LucyHope]

Could it be said that the countries where people are most likely to frown on very long hair are those with the highest levels of media saturation? (Untested hypothesis, not "I'm stating my opinion as a question because I'm nervous or worried about causing offense".) ;)

I live in a moderately media-saturated westernised country. It is also very laid back and secular, and has a comparitively high level of non-western immigration (especially where I live).

We see very long hair regularly, in the form of:
- Hippies/greenies/bikers et al (men & women - these are not a minority here, let alone a victimised one!)
- Semi/traditional Polynesians
- Semi/traditional Indians
- Maybe-traditional and/or fashion conscious Asians

This means that long hair has to get really long before people will comment on it negatively here. (Although, white girls are more likely to get neg comments than Nesian or Indian girls, and white guys more than anyone else. Cultural bias, anyone? :D )

Maybe it's like tattoos? Here, they have a strong cultural/tribal/traditional connection, so they aren't seen as "bad" (depending on content, of course). It's harder to walk down the street and not see a tattoo than vice versa, and people generally understand the meaning behind them, so it's very rare to hear comments about merchant sailors/hell's angels, or tattoos being cheap/low/trashy/evil. Can a parallell be drawn with hair?

[GuinevereMay]

Luckily for me, I live in a place where long hair is part of the culture, so no one seems to notice my length. I'll be moving back to the mainland at the end of the year, so I'm curious to see how people will react to my hair once I get there.

Quoting myself from earlier in this thread. It's incredibly laid back here. Most of the women don't wear make-up and flip-flops are acceptable with even the most formal attire.

We're pretty media-saturated. I'm not sure media makes a difference for us here because long hair is so ingrained with the culture.

[Darkhorse1]

I think those are sadly just social stero-typing. I always hated it. When I heard the old phrase 'you can't', I'd say 'who said'? And you know what? No one knew.

I think that anyone should be able to do anything they wish and be free to do so. With men growing their hair long, women should be able to have short hair and not be stereo-typed a lesbian. People should be able to wear all black and not be 'goth'.

It basically comes down to the fact that difference scares people. Look at different cultures and colors of skin. Same thing. In history, what was not socially normal, was outted, and usually tortured and killed. Nice huh? Now, it's more subtle.

I really feel bad for men. Any man who wants long hair is deemed gay or some ridiculous sterotype. I don't prefer men with long hair, but I would NEVER tell a long haired man to cut it! To me, that's HIS choice and I don't look at him in any different way.

To me, it goes back to this whole issue of a governing body. Someone telling you what to do. So many people were telling me to cut my hair a few years back, I grew it out longer out of protest. Why should I cut it?? It's my hair, my choice.

For me, as long as someone wishes to express themselves through their hair or clothing, who is someone to give that a sterotype, but society needs to open up their minds--on MANY things, not just hair growth :D

[Bethany44]

Just a couple weeks ago I had a friend tell me long hair looked "trashy" when I told her my plans to grow mine out. Trashy....really?!

I guess I have always just thought long hair is beautiful and can't understand why other people don't. I think it's beautiful on all races, sexes, ages. But that's not to say I'm not accepting of people who choose short hair. It's like any other prejudice - if you don't like it, don't do it - no reason to stereotype people who do!

[tralalalara]

I think that most people with shorter hair could care less if other people have long hair, as long as it's cared for.

My roommate only thinks it's gross when I talk about moving natural oils down my hair to protect it.

I haven't seen any legitimate prejudices against long hair except on men and food service workers.

[Áine]

I think that most people with shorter hair could care less if other people have long hair, as long as it's cared for.

My roommate only thinks it's gross when I talk about moving natural oils down my hair to protect it.

I haven't seen any legitimate prejudices against long hair except on men and food service workers.


In your opinion, what constitutes a legitimate prejudice? Doesn't the person who's suffering it get to decide that?

Being told by your boss to cut your hair (this has happened to me unfortunately) in a job that has nothing to do with the appearance of your hair can certainly come from a place of prejudice, just as somebody outright trashing long hair can too.

Just my humble two cents.

[ilovelonghair]

I haven't seen any legitimate prejudices against long hair except on men and food service workers.

My BF has been blamed for a long hair in a pie at his factory :p. But that was impossible because first of all: he wears it in a bun, second, there is a hair net over that. I personally think that short hair can end up in food much more easily (and I have seen short hair in food at restaurants) because it can't be tied up.

[Leena7]

I think a lot of people had a bad reaction to long hair is because a lot of people do not take care of their hair very well (unlike everyone on this site!) so a lot of the very long hair that I have seen in public looks damaged. Damaged hair is unattractive to most people, so I think this makes some people think that a person with super long, damaged hair is weird because they are showing off their damaged hair.

Some people also assume very long hair is dirty, especially if it is worn down a lot. Maybe they think it touches things? Idk. I can sort of see it. I don't know why, but I hate finding strangers' stray hairs in my dorm showers or on my clothes. Finding a long hair is worse only because a single strand of long hair has more hair than a short hair. To me, it is like finding a stranger's fingernail or toenail.

I suppose another reason is just because it is different. I think that is why lots of people dislike long hair on men. I don't relate to this idea. I love long, healthy looking hair on both men and women.