Frizziness NOT related to dryness?

[MandaMom2Three]

Ok, I'm at a loss here. I've been doing deep oilings and moisture treatments up the wazoo and something isn't right here. I started this whole hair thing with very frizzy hair that looked and felt like parched sandpaper. I figured the frizz was due to the terrible dryness and would go away when it was moisturized enough.

My hair looks awesome fresh after a wash or treatment, but within hours it's all frizzy again! It LOOKS dry but when I gather it up and feel it it feels absolutely glorious! Silky, smooth and feels deliciously moisturized. So why the heck is it looking dry and frizzy :confused:.

I've ruled out build up (I've tried clarifying and I'm not using cones, I should also add that even when I DID use cones I still had this problem), I've ruled out split ends, just had a large trim recently so all fresh new ends. I've ruled out dryness :shrug: . What else can cause frizziness?

I've tried oils, aloe and Kimberlily's defrizzing spray but to use enough to tame the frizz makes my super thin fine hair gross and stringy. Using a real coney serum seemed to help a LITTLE but not enough to make me think cones are the answer.
Ideally I would like to treat the CAUSE of the frizziness not just mask it, but I don't know what else to try! Any suggestions?

[darkwaves]

Frizz may also be a sign that you are curlier than you realize -- and if so, embracing your curl is the best way to go. Check out the curly/wurly thread for suggestions.

[GlassEyes]

Jessie's right--that's a possibility.

If that turns out to not be the case, however, maybe try adding cones in again, and mixing routines.

[rhubarbarin]

I agree with the others.. have you taken a standard hairtyping pic (no combing, airdried)?

There is no way for me to avoid frizz, no matter how healthy or moisturized my hair, if there is any brushing, combing, or lack of leave-ins.

[misstwist]

There is no way for me to avoid frizz, no matter how healthy or moisturized my hair, if there is any brushing, combing, or lack of leave-ins.

Ditto. So I don't worry about it.

[Flynn]

Hahaha, I always have a bit of fluff. I find "twisting" it smooth (like I was about to do a twisted bun) often gets everything to smooth into more coherent waves again, but not always, and it doesn't seem to work for everyone, either.

You might like to try re-typing; if it's really crazy-fluffy, it might be hiding some really good curls. ^__^

Did you realise that there's a specific thread running for wavies and wurlies (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=31563) for talking about all the joys and agonies of the wavy/wurly hairtypes? It's nothing like what the curly/wurly thread is (yet), but hopefully...

[Brat]

Humidity (moisture) causes my hair to frizz, and it's SOFT as a bunny rabbit's fur!

[MandaMom2Three]

Hmmmm, I guess it's time to type again! Should I just use my normal routine (co) or should I take a pic freshly clarified?

[GlassEyes]

Hmmmm, I guess it's time to type again! Should I just use my normal routine (co) or should I take a pic freshly clarified?
Honestly, CO. When you're testing for hidden curls, the typing rules kind of change.:p

[Armelle]

My hair has ramped up the curls since I had my daughter. Curly strands seem to be sticking up at the top more since it's been super humid and since my hair is growing back after some hair loss due to medicine.

[Heidi_234]

lol guys I was just about to suggest the "undiscovered curl" idea, and then I saw all the Curly Wurly gang is already here :D
Amanda, if you're looking for curls, don't hairtype. Try to create optimal conditions for them - COing, scrunching, plopping and more scrunching. If your hair is curly in a closet you'll notice the difference.

[darkwaves]

Another suggestion -- if the frizz is springing free in halos from your updos, try a BBB. Once the hair is tied back, gently brush the surface (even with the side of the brush, if you're not sure you want to do this.)

The bristles may help to bond the frizz into a neater sheen.

(I'm not Jessie...)

[MandaMom2Three]

Well I know plopping really brings out my waves, here's a pic of last time I did it

http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww235/MandyTFM/morestuff009.jpg

It's just strange, I KNOW I've been able to brush before without frizzies, I guess it's just getting curlier or the humidity, I guess we'll find out soon, winter cometh along with it's desert dry air :rolleyes:

[Fractalsofhair]

Are you sure it's not new growth?

[MandaMom2Three]

Are you sure it's not new growth?

No, it's the whole length :(

[Mahars]

Have you tried gel? I didn't know my hair was curley until put gel in it one day (finger combed) and didn't get around to brushing it for an hour or two. I was so surprised when I looked in the mirror to see curls! I had previously thought my hair was a big pouffey frizzy mess, but the gel brought the curls out. Any styling product will probably do if you don't have gel. Mousse works well too.

Edit: My hair frizzes no matter how moisturized it is too by the way. Any sort of brushing or combing makes it frizz, as does a lack of products.

[MandaMom2Three]

I think I'm just going to have to accept that my hair is too curly to just brush out anymore :( I was applying some oil for an overnight soak just now and scrunched a bit, instant curls!! I am still digging my heals in with avoiding cony products, so I'll experiment with aloe gel or maybe aloe gel with a drop or two of oil mixed in to see if that will be enough to set the curls for me, this is going to take some serious re-learning how to style my hair!!

[MandaMom2Three]

I guess the curls get it! I oiled last night herb and conditioner washed this morning then simply scrunched with aloe and jojoba. This is the results...

http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww235/MandyTFM/pics028.jpg

When it was completely dry it was still not frizzy, but with the thinness I don't like the look of the separated curls, all the space between the clumps makes it look very greasy. I love the softness and shine of my hair, but I guess if I want to achieve the "brush and go" look I'll have to go back to cones, they weighed my hair down to the point where it wasn't so wurly. Sheesh why can't my hair cooperate with me :rolleyes:

[heidi w.]

One suggestion that is often overlooked is that somehow the ambient air may be either too humid or not humid enough. Usually, for curlies of any sort, from some body to gentle waves to full-on corkscrew coils the frizzies occur.

Frizziness is not just a function of dry hair. It could be the weather! (ETA: Fixed my organization of my thought. I mixed 2 things together the wrong way.)

The water in the ambient air can affect the hydrogen bonds which in turn affects the sulfur bonds in curly hair (what makes hair curl), and the 'frizz' or 'poof' factor increases.
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/1998-10/905527670.Bc.r.html


My friend Lady Grace taught me the benefits of using a humidifier in the winter, in particular. In the summer, if it's too humid inside running an A/C removes water out of the air, as does a dehumidifer (except it also adds in an incredible amount of heat!) She has rather wavy hair, and if it were a lot shorter, it would probably show true curl, I'm guessing. With all her length, though, it's different. It's almost a crimping effect. AND folks, if you ever have a chance to see her hair in person it is nothing short of STUNNING. Incredible, incredible volume!!

So, using a humidifier, depending on where you are and how the weather is may be pertinent. I am a straight-haired gal who moved from semi-arid California to very seasonal weather in northern Illinois (Zone 4 on the gardening scale, occasional bouts of Zone 5). In winter, in particular, my hair will have more problems with fly-away in IL which I never experienced in Silicon Valley, California -- my skin in winter will be worse than dry -- it'll be painfully cracked. Softened water and humidifer help resolve these issues in winter in Illinois.

My friend Lady Grace runs her humidifier all year round in Florida, which in summer is VERY humid and has daily thunderstorms that blow in, and unbelievable humidity in the area she is in. You haven't lived til you've experienced that. In fact, in Florida, I discovered that the usual amount of oiling I did was EVEN MORE too much and my hair became rank quickly and lank from absorbing ambient moisture in the air, looking very oily quite quickly.

If you have fly-away, this may be an indicator that air is too dry, or static-y, and that humidifier may help, even in a summer weather condition.


I am also going to mention that compared to straight hair types, those who have curly hair tend to have a slight bit more coarse feeling to the texture of their hair. So when curlies go around wanting satin smooth finish on the hair, they may have a bit of a challenge. Identifying curly hair properly in this way, for most, takes a while to learn because our society does not understand curly hair as a whole.

I looked at the OP's public profile. Indeed you actually posses a fair degree of curl in that your hair has, naturally, a lot of lift right out of the hair follicle meaning the shape of the follicle is different than the shape for, say, straight haired types. With length the degree of curl may not show quite so much, but in the photos with somewhat shorter lengths, I can definitely see that you have a good degree of furl factor going on. YET, you also have somewhat fine hair, if those pix are of you in your NON photo section. SO you have to be careful to not overly weight the hair down with product.

You might really like thinking about a Condition Only washing technique as prescribed by the book Curly Girl (or perhaps the LHC CO wash will do it for you -- I was specifically told that LHCs method for CO was different from Cirly Girl's method), for your degree of curl, beginning around the earlobes or so. It might be too much to hit your scalp hair with it and instead have a too much weight factor for you. You might also want to dilute or consider Curly Girl's deva shampoo, either the low- or no-poo shampoo. You definitely need to watch the product choices to get a shinier exterior, better behavior yet avoid too much weight of product on the hair.

You might also like exploring these two sites:
Naturallycurly.com

http://www.wikihow.com/Follow-the-Curly-Girl-Method-for-Curly-Hair
this is about Curly Girl method on wiki -- can't verify the accuracy of this info

http://www.devachansalon.com/about/staff
scroll to bottom and click on far right DEVACARE -- products for curly girls featuring no- and low-shampoo (sulfates)

I can't see the video, but you might find it useful nevertheless.

Hopefully I've been helpful.
heidi w.

[heidi w.]

I agree with the others.. have you taken a standard hairtyping pic (no combing, airdried)?

There is no way for me to avoid frizz, no matter how healthy or moisturized my hair, if there is any brushing, combing, or lack of leave-ins.

I think this an important point. To an extent, the frizz factor can be controlled, but some of this can't be controlled. It depends on how much we're talking about (ETA: and with oiling can result in that kind of stringy look, kind of lank thinness; for more volume consider 'clipping' which I offered some videos of in a request for the clipping hair during drying by Curly Girl in another thread here running right now.)

If it blows up in humid weather for example, you may be able to do something about that.

For curlies, especially the tighter coiled locks, brushing and possibly even combing is not good as it separates coiled strands of hair increasing the poof factor.

For these hair types, conditioning in the shower and detangling in the shower is more helpful. Coat the hair in conditioner choice. ENSURE hair is fairly warm from the water temp. Too tepid a water temp = the cuticle not opening and the conditioner not becoming more 'creamy' and smearing about. Too tepid means hair cuticle is closed and then conditioner will set more on top of the hair and not bond with the cortex with the design of hydrogen bonds. So keep the hair wet and quite warm (winter the cooling factor can be more problematic in snow country), including dipping the coated with conditioner hair under the water to keep the conditioner warm too.

Also gently fan out (not wholly separate though) the ropey wet clumps of hair since the interior of these 'ropes' is not AS wet meaning it doesn't get as much conditioner either.

Allow conditioner to remain on hair. Then dip a wide-tooth comb in the conditioner (you may need to set up a vat before a hair wash) and using the power of the warm shower water, work through the length. Gently. This will separate those ropey clumps too and ensure conditioner gets to most strands. Keep recoating the hair with conditioner over&over till complete.

Allow conditioner to remain sitting on hair.

THEN RINSE VERY, VERY WELL.

Then scrunch or crunch the hair and allow to air dry, unless if you do the poof factor increases. When hair is still damp yet not sopping wet, you can apply the appropriate amount of oil, shea butter or even, for very coiled locks, cholesterol (found in the Black Beauty aisle) to your hair. The choice will depend on the degree of furl factor you possess. Plain oil, such as Jojoba or Coconut may not work for a higher degree of coiled furls.

This may be helpful. I believe with experimentation you will find a routine that works for you. Switching to CO washing takes a bit of time to both master and get the hair used to this method, as a manner of speaking. Do your level best to only change one thing at a time so you understand the real results. IF you change too many things all at once at the same time, then it's hard to pinpoint the issue if one arises.

Again, hopefully I've been helpful. You may be able to continue with the usual shampoo/condition method, but you may need a different conditioner and different way of working through the hair. It could be your conditioner is too light or too heavy and it could be your water temperature isn't allowing full penetration of conditioner to the cortex level.

heidi w.
PS (ETA) my best friend has intense coiled locks of hair, corkscrew loops (think Shirley Temple) and I got her off the comb even (on dry hair), and she used cholesterol (which she taught me the benefits of this for this hair type -- this intensity of curl factor), and showed her how to use the conditioner of her choice in the shower per above, and her hair is now shiny, silky soft, and no tangles, and the coils of curls remain locked and present a ton of volume. She's now beyond BSL and is thrilled with her hair's behavior. She uses only conditioner on the length and dilutes shampoo on the top of the head, back of the head zonage.

[heidi w.]

One more point:
Some frizz may actually be caused by new hair growth. Those little squirrely hairs producing a halo effect may well be new sprouts (younger hair hasn't grown the full length and tends to jut out from the head or even some length) and you might be in a growth phase. Sometimes we have growth spurts in fact! So be careful to diagnose things as accurately as you can. Identifying the real thing is HUGE in resolving issues with hair.

heidi w.

[MandaMom2Three]

WOW! Thank you HeidiW! I'll spend some serious time digesting this info, I'll also be implementing more of this care on my 5 yo, her hair is quite curly!

[pluto_crna]

it's a long shot but it may be because of your hairstyle. I noticed that for me getting layers was a big mistake. Because of the texture of my hair the top layers were untamable and frizzy. Also perhaps your hairdresser uses low quality shears? Anyway good luck on finding the cause!

[bunnikins]

My hair gets frizzy often too but I can relate it to a very dry weather here where I live! But a good moisturizing shampoo and conditioner and everything looks much better!

[Arashi]

Humidity for me usually equals very frizzy hair.. to the touch, it will feel extremely soft and moisturized, but the humidity just makes it poof out. I find aloe vera (either 100% bottled gel or straight from the plant) mixed with a super teeny tiny itsy bit of oil will help the fluff significantly for me.

[rchorr]

I have to agree that frizzies don't necessarily mean dryness. When you're a wavy/curly, damp is the reason for the frizzies. You should see my hair when we go camping in the summer! LOL! The higher the humidity, the bigger my hair gets ;^)

RCHORR'

[rchorr]

My hair has ramped up the curls since I had my daughter. Curly strands seem to be sticking up at the top more since it's been super humid and since my hair is growing back after some hair loss due to medicine.

WOW! Mine too! A LOT of curly hairs have told me that they lost curl when pregnant. I've had 2 kids, and my hair got curlier each time. It's always nice to hear you're not alone!

RCHORR'